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Eratimus
28-10-2006, 19:59
Discovering the Tyrian Alphabet

Discovery during GW Beta in Dec. 2004
By: Eratimus, TAOS Chairman

The Start of the GW Lore Craze

How was the alphabet translated?

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/3953/tyrianalphabetxy9.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrianalphabetxy9.jpg) http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/7215/tyrianmap5co.th.jpg (http://img287.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrianmap5co.jpg) http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3334/tyriamaptranslated0gg.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyriamaptranslated0gg.jpg)

The idea of an obscure runic language came to me after the launch of GuildWars when Banegrivm, Guild Leader of the 1st Fist of Light posted a "strange map" he had found a screen shot of that was on sign up north of the Wall. I took one look at it and realized that indeed they for the most part they were Runes. Not any obscurely created runes, but in fact resembled those used in Gothic, Fulthark, and Swedish-Norwegian runic alphabets, as the various I saw on the map included a mixture of all three. I did also find that the Devs may indeed have change a few, perhaps to make them unique.

The first thought that came to me was that they are using real world runes and the letters corresponding to them. At which point I began trying to translate the upper most set of runes which was believed to spell "Tyria". In the end of that process after combining a mixture of real life runes and their letters, I came to realize that in fact the runes are NOT using the same letters as used in real life. That in fact, the image of the runes were used, but the devs. designated their own letters to each rune.

With this new insight, and the knowledge and of what the locations were representing, I soon was able to translate and document those areas, ending with a at least 3 groups translated. Those being Ascalon, Tyria, Kryta. You can say, Well ok, you think you know what an area is representing, then you assumed those runes were letters? Well I backed and continue to prove that the translations were correct because of cross-comparison.  The "y" in Tyria uses the same "y' rune in Kryta. The rune for "a" is used all in the right places for all three of those groupings. This lead to the discovery of the letters A, S, C, L, O, N, T, Y, I, and K. Soon after I was able to decipher the south central set of runes where we see the Shiverpeaks. But, this was a mistake by me, as I originally thought that the first set is Shiver and the second set below is Peaks. This uncovered the letters, P, V, and H. I wondered why the words were separated. It was until I got a screen shot originally taken and submitted by "F" was I able to get a clearer written set of runes. The SW area by Linea and Androgial was mentioned to have been either the Ring of Fire or Fire Isle. After some close translating I was finally able translate and find the right runes for Ring of Fire, which revealed the letters G, F, and E.

After some close observations I soon uncovered that my translation of "Shiver Peaks" was wrong. In fact, the first line DID spell out the complete Shiverpeaks, and surprise to me, as again the Alphabet proved itself, I translated _ o_ntns. Hmm, I wondered what that could mean. Then, out of the blue a realization came that hit me like a freight train. OF Course that is what it is, it was "mountns" This spelling does not include the ai when referring to the correct spelling of mountains, but it did give some insight as it revealed the letters M, O, and U.

Soon after I began my translations of the set of runes in the South East. I originally translated the runes to Try_ _a_ Desert. This left me at a standstill as those missing letters I could not see clearly. It was not until "Linitas" mentioned that the first set could even be Crystal, did it hit me that he was right. I had miss translated the first letter as a T and not C. It was found that location was the Crystal Desert, which just now as I was updating this article as I have been making changes, an blurb from the last Gaile Gray interview was submitted to me.

"The Crystal Desert is a nexus of powerful mystical energies. For centuries entire cultures have made pilgrimages to the burning sands in search of spiritual atonement. Their bones litter the dunes, a testament to the dangers of this inhospitable environment. The only other evidence of their existence is the hollow, wind-torn buildings of their temporary civilizations."

The one location that had bewildered me for the longest time was that set of runes to the West. Drytchnath and Androgial had mentioned that it could be Majesty's Rest or Maguuma Jungle. It was not until I realized those central two letters of the first set of runes was uu and not a c or v, did it come to me that the first letter of the second group wa s a J. A letter that had eluded any sort of translating. This revealed it to be Maguuma Jungle and the letters J, and a new rune for M and G.

This completed the entire translation of the Map. It also completed the alphabet, save the translations for B, X, W, Q, and Z. I have come to see that map as a "Rosetta Stone" of sorts for this ancient runic language.

That brings up another point, WHERE did this language come from, is it perhaps from a past fallen Kingdom? Orr? Ascalon? Elona?

Eratimus
28-10-2006, 20:06
Has any of these exact runes been found in Factions or Nightfall? Does there exist maps of the land such as above but for Cantha and Elona? Any info will help continue this research.

Gmr Leon
28-10-2006, 21:12
Has any of these exact runes been found in Factions or Nightfall? Does there exist maps of the land such as above but for Cantha and Elona? Any info will help continue this research.

There was a map of Elona in this style. It showed where Kourna, Istan,and Vabbi are on the map. It also shows Desolation. I'll see if I can get a pic for you if nobody else does. It goes fairly quickly so I can't tell you if there were any of the same runes on it.

I can't say I've seen a map of Cantha in that style sadly.

Eratimus
28-10-2006, 21:24
Yes that would be great. It would allow us to know if the Alphabet is linked to more then just the Ascalon nation.

Gmr Leon
28-10-2006, 22:31
This is the best pic I could get of the map. I would have rotated it, but it makes it harder to examine the runes.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/gw814.jpg

Barinthus
29-10-2006, 15:02
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=390336

If you cannot view images in this thread, let me know - I can't see it myself but others seem to be ok.

Anyway those were found in the Crystal Desert but the writing looks similar in style to those in the image above. Elonians have their own language characters?

Gmr Leon
29-10-2006, 18:16
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=390336

If you cannot view images in this thread, let me know - I can't see it myself but others seem to be ok.

Anyway those were found in the Crystal Desert but the writing looks similar in style to those in the image above. Elonians have their own language characters?

Something I think you may want to know Barinthus. One of those pedestals can be found in the town/mission outpost Gates to Desolation. I got there the other day and saw it. It looked like it was placed where it would have been a strategic Ranger location..

Quintus Antonius
29-10-2006, 18:25
Makes sense to me. Cantha has a Asian-inspired culture and has pseudo-Asian characters. Elona has a North African-inspired culture, and has pseudo-Arabic characters.

Barinthus
29-10-2006, 18:26
Gates to Desolation? Is that Nightfall?

Gmr Leon
29-10-2006, 18:57
Gates to Desolation? Is that Nightfall?

Yea. I was kind of thinking it would be a bit obvious. Anyway yea it is, it's a town after you've gone through a portion of the area Turai's Procession.

Eratimus
29-10-2006, 21:39
This is the best pic I could get of the map. I would have rotated it, but it makes it harder to examine the runes.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/gw814.jpg

Any chance of getting shots of the other 4 sides. In your image those on the right side and those in the back become smaller because of the skewed view. If you get the other 3 orientations, they can simply be rotated to face the right way , so we have a record of all the glyph the same size.

Gmr Leon
29-10-2006, 21:50
The thing is they only show it at a sideways view. So I really can't..

nubnub
29-10-2006, 23:27
A little Photoshop voodoo, and:
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/1736/nfmapza0.jpg

Barinthus
30-10-2006, 08:10
Gmr Leon - it was obvious but I prefer not to assume. Thank you for humoring my desire for clarification - I do not have NF and probably will not purchase it for a while due to my need to focus on graduate school and my weak willpower.

Eratimus
30-10-2006, 10:36
Thank you two for the map. Comparing this one with the actual game map and area names, the land is a bit off in shape etc but we seem to know what should be what. This map is pretty off in regards to geographic locations when it comes to the ingame map. Just so I am clear with the locations. The brown section is the Jade Sea, the left lower along the side is probably refering tot he world Cantha, the large island is the Shing Jea Island, the top part of the red is Kaineng City. Because the map is so distorted you would expect the Echovald forest to be where that Eastern city is at the red/brown border. It also seems that the map is sliced sideways so less is shown in this map then is shown in the ingame travel map.

Thoughts?

As to the letter translations, the number of runes and what the location is suppose to be does not seem to match. So a translation like I did for the Tyrian won't work. Perhaps, like many Asian contries, the runes act as words themselves. This one will be very difficult to try and figure out.

Gmr Leon
30-10-2006, 12:06
Thank you two for the map. Comparing this one with the actual game map and area names, the land is a bit off in shape etc but we seem to know what should be what. This map is pretty off in regards to geographic locations when it comes to the ingame map. Just so I am clear with the locations. The brown section is the Jade Sea, the left lower along the side is probably refering tot he world Cantha, the large island is the Shing Jea Island, the top part of the red is Kaineng City. Because the map is so distorted you would expect the Echovald forest to be where that Eastern city is at the red/brown border. It also seems that the map is sliced sideways so less is shown in this map then is shown in the ingame travel map.

Thoughts?

As to the letter translations, the number of runes and what the location is suppose to be does not seem to match. So a translation like I did for the Tyrian won't work. Perhaps, like many Asian contries, the runes act as words themselves. This one will be very difficult to try and figure out.

That map I posted and Nubnub edited was of Elona, not Cantha. Just thought you should know before you attempt to translate.

Eratimus
30-10-2006, 12:33
LOL that is why it seems so distorted, in that case, things are falling into place! As I already see the translations. Will be back with my translations. As this is a dedicated topic, ie an Elonian Alphabet, the research and findings will be in a new thread. Thank you two, this works out greatly.

Sir Jack
30-10-2006, 12:43
IIRC, the same map can be seen hanging on the wall during some cutscenes with Varesh. Can't remember exactly which cutscene though.

Neovo
02-11-2006, 19:36
do we have a way of translating this yet?

its a sequence of runes that scrolls the pillars in gates of torment

http://s07.picshome.com/13a/gw224.jpg_t.jpg (http://s07.picshome.com/view.php?image=/13a/gw224.jpg)

i belive its the same language used in the maps of elona posted previously

Eratimus
05-11-2006, 14:08
Yes, that is the same language on the Map, and on other banners in areas of Elona I have dubbed the Elonian Alphabet. I have the thread for it listed in the Compendium of Tyrian Research at the top. Unfortunately I am still working on cracking the alphabet as we have the map that could clearly guide us as we know what a group fo specific letters should mean. But, as to the actual translation, I am still working on it.

Kyshen
30-11-2006, 18:55
Yes, that is the same language on the Map, and on other banners in areas of Elona I have dubbed the Elonian Alphabet. I have the thread for it listed in the Compendium of Tyrian Research at the top. Unfortunately I am still working on cracking the alphabet as we have the map that could clearly guide us as we know what a group fo specific letters should mean. But, as to the actual translation, I am still working on it.

yeah, I forget the area name, but there's what looks like a library full of these data stacks.

Gagabraino
15-12-2006, 00:43
The Elonian alphabet seems less an alphabet and mroe an entirely new language. If you observe the map found at the Consulate, the word "Elona" uses 4 letters, "Istan" uses 4, "The Desolation" uses 6.

Although, it could easily be considered that Elonians use extra letters for sounds. For example, if a certain letter was "Na" you could split Elona into:
E-L-O-NA.

Eratimus
18-12-2006, 05:44
The Elonian alphabet seems less an alphabet and mroe an entirely new language. If you observe the map found at the Consulate, the word "Elona" uses 4 letters, "Istan" uses 4, "The Desolation" uses 6.

Although, it could easily be considered that Elonians use extra letters for sounds. For example, if a certain letter was "Na" you could split Elona into:
E-L-O-NA.

Yes, this is quite possible Additionally, considered the Elona are more or less a semi reflection of our Egyptians, as the Cathans were our East Asia, their language could be similar in usage. This also possibly shows that infact the Heiroglyphs we see at the Tombs as we have connected it to the Elona reflects their egyptian like nature.

NameAlreadyInUse
19-12-2006, 16:50
Yes, this is quite possible Additionally, considered the Elona are more or less a semi reflection of our Egyptians, as the Cathans were our East Asia, their language could be similar in usage. This also possibly shows that infact the Heiroglyphs we see at the Tombs as we have connected it to the Elona reflects their egyptian like nature.

I'm just hoping that somebody smarter than I am can take a crack at translating these elonian glyphs. I'm dying to know what, if anything, all the scrolling text in Halls of Chakun (however it's spelled) and Gate of Torment actually have to say.

If they do say something I would like to hope that it is something lore-related to fit with the theme of these scrolling tapestries 'n the like being parts of libraries and repositories of information. You know, as opposed to a clever way to hide game credits or something.

Seyfert
24-12-2006, 23:32
hmmm I recently noticed something strange, the next time I have the opportunity to log on I'll take some screenshots but has anyone else noticed that the symbols on the pillars outside Serenity Temple and other places in Ascalon seem to match the symbols found on the pillars surrounding the big door in the UW?

Barinthus
25-12-2006, 00:08
I believe I know of what you're talking about. Those have been there ever since the first day of the game as far as I know.

I could be wrong so furnish those shots when you can.

Seyfert
26-12-2006, 22:31
Those have been there ever since the first day of the game as far as I know.

I could be wrong so furnish those shots when you can.

Oh I didn't mean to say that they were ever not there, I got a couple of screenshots but looking at them afterwards... they're pretty crappy so I guess I'll make anouther go when I have time

LamerFlamer
30-12-2006, 05:16
I found these odd runes on this thing in the zone past black curtain by all the inferno imps, The runes LOOK similar but they aren't exactly the same.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7475/oddrunesfe2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I would have more pictures and that white stuff would be cut off, but my gw screentaking abilities is messed up and I only have paint....

Seyfert
30-12-2006, 06:09
I also thought to check those runes to see if they also shared a likeness however from my initial glances I failed to see any definate similarities however this was from looking at very poorly taken screenshots so I shall look further into it

LyKaN X
31-03-2007, 23:02
I came across this in Pre-Searing

http://www.yourmontagevideo.com/pics/catacombs.jpg


& tried to translate it using this link

http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrianalphabetxy9.jpg

Is the Tyrian Alphabet used only on maps? I assume there is only 1 alphabet used & the sign should translate into "The Catacombs", however I could not find any of the markings on this sign in the translated alphabet from the link above.

Scott the Green
01-04-2007, 02:42
The scrolling rune pillars appear in the libraries in the Holdings of Chohkin. (I don't know if I spelled that right.)

Also, I think the map that appears behind Varesh in some cutscenes is atop the Fortress of Jahai, but I have no way to back that up. My guild leader wants to take a crack at storming the fortress sometime, so if we do I'll take pictures.

Gmr Leon
01-04-2007, 04:53
Scott you should advise your guild leader against doing so. He will only get as far as the front gates and then it is impossible to open the gate. That map you're talking about IS in the Fortress of Jahai, he is correct in that.

gervasium
01-04-2007, 14:16
LykaN X, you can't translate that into "The Catacombs". If you look at every pre-searing sign, you'll notice that all have the same symbols written, wether they point to Ascalon city or to the Northlands, it's always the same symbol. The same happens with all Krytan signs. All of them have the same thing on them.

Why don't they let us go to the fortress of jahai? I wish we could go there. Well, we can in the Nightfallen Jahai but I mean in real Kourna.

Scott the Green
01-04-2007, 16:24
You can't actually get in to the Fortress of Jahai? I'm so disillusioned.

Are there any enemies behind the gate you could use Necrotic Traversal to hop to?

Gmr Leon
01-04-2007, 19:52
Well, unless there was a sudden glitch or chance of luck that an enemy spawns behind the gates then no. There's just a troop of Margonites awaiting any enemy to be stupid enough to come to the gate and knock. I was thinking the same thing as you when I stormed the Fortress of Jahai.

"Alright, the Fortress of Jahai is nearby. I'm gonna go see if you can get in!"*few minutes later.*"What a rip off..."

Innit
03-04-2007, 17:34
You can clear all the enemies in the fortress, traverse up and down the front of the building, and kill the boss that resides on top, but you'll meet a locked door.

You can also go round the other way from the Chantry of Secrets, and you can clear the back of the fortress, but I think it's blocked off by some water or something.