Extended Shadow Form Defender

[arredondo]

I've been having a blast playing in the new Hero Battle arenas. It's definitely worth checking out if you can accept that your NPCs aren't perfect (niether are your opponents!).

I bring that up to explain that so far I've mostly used this great new build their instead of larger PvPs. Some of you read my Extended Dervish Defender (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425756) build that features Vow of Silence. This goes along the same lines but provides a lot more (near) invulnerability times with Shadow Form. It's so different than the other that I wanted it to have it's own thread (all enchants show +20% enchant mod times):

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Extended Shadow Form Defender (De/As)

Mysticism: 16 (12+3+1)
Scythe:14 (11+3)
Shadow Arts: 6
Deadly Arts: 2

Deadly Paradox: Attack skills off for 10s, halves recharge and cast time of Assassin skills

Extended Enchantments: Lose all enchants. For 25s all enchants last 2x as long, and all end when this ends
Shadow Form: For 13s, all spells fail and all attacks miss you, lose all but 23 HP when it ends
Faithful Intervention: If damage puts you <50% HP, it ends. When it ends you get +158 HP
Heart of Fury: +33% attack speed for 25s, nearby foes set on fire for 3s when it ends

Crippling Sweep: attack Cripples foe for 7s times amount of enchants on you (max 19s)
Rez -or- Malicious Strike: Attack does 5 damage and hits as a Critical

Feigned Neutrality: +7 regen and +80 AL for 9s, ends if you attack or use a skill

I wear max energy armor, and I make sure to bring a +20% enchant Vamp Scythe among other weapons.
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Let me say right off that this build is better when you don't need a rez (like in Hero Battles, planned TA, some HA, Aspenwood, etc.). That eight slot for Malicious Strike really makes a difference, but always bring a rez to RA. Another point is that I use dual Superior Runes in this build,, leaving me with about 400 HP. Your defense is so strong that you won't notice it at all. With that said, here's how it works.

Go into DP stance. Try and do it 3-4 seconds before you plan to enchant up and fight (not required though). After that, put up your four enchants in the order listed: EE->SF->FI->HoF

Congrats, you are now protected from 95% of the possible damage dealing skills and attacks in the game! Shadow Form in builds is normally maxed out in the Shadow Arts line to keep it up at maximum levels. Here I have L6 Shadow Arts and it's perfect, even though the stats say it's 9s (I added the +20% enchant stats in this listing). EE makes that 11s SF last about 22s. When EE ends, it erased all enchants so it takes away SF just as SF was ending anyway.

Once you do EE->SF, the enemy can not stop the last two enchants, Faithful Intervention and Heart of Fury. FI's role in this build is genius. Like spells such as Illusion of Weakness and Watchful Intervention, it does not automatically trigger the HP boost if your health goes below the listed amount; only incoming damage will do that.

However this spell also says that you get the bonus when the enchant ends, so at the same time EE ends to kill SF and drop you to 23 HP, it also ends FI as well which immediately gives you the health boost! You actually never see it drop to 23 because it all happens together. The final enchant is Heart of Fury. This IAS lasts the entire time too, and it ends with the rest of them.

So the full plan is to put up Deadly Paradox and four enchants, then fight for the 25s that EE gives you. When it all ends, you get 158 from HoF, plus you get +16HP per enchant or another +64 total HP when they are gone. Altogether it easily puts you at 50% health instead of a mere 5% health. And that's the very instant SF leaves you.

After that, turn on Feigned Neutrality and it'll give you amazing defense and regen for the 5s you wait for SF to recharge (it lasts 25s, then recharges in 30s under DP). Make sure you don't attack or it ends.If you'd like, you can do DP+FN to permanently stay under it's protection.

BTW, this isn't casting as long as you may think. The the cast times for the four enchants are .25s, 1s., 2s, .75s. Faithful Intervention is the only slow one, and once SF is up, they can't interrupt you with (almost) anything anyway.

The offense is to use the IAS speed buffed scythe to do great AoE damage, and on your main foe you keep Cripple up as you punish him with Malicious Strike (out of arenas). The critical can get into the 90s for damage, and with a Vamp mod you take more. 60 AL foes go down in under 10s, all of their spells and attacks missing in the progress. Remember, each failed spell or missed attack is energy lost for the other team (lead your team early to draw fire towards you).

Energy is fine. You have about 33E, and once the enchants are up you need Crippling Sweep once most of the time, then its -5E every time Mystic Sweep recharges. When all the enchants end, you get almost all your energy back due to Mysticism (+20E returned). This setup isn't overly powerful in damage, but it does get the job down. Give it a whirl and see if you like it yourself.

[Crazy Ivan]

I was wondering...

If you re-cast Extend Enchantments before it runs out (you need 16 Mysticism for that), do you lose all enchantments or does it just continue?

I guess you'd still lose them, but given that it doesn't actually END..

[arredondo]

Yes, you lose them all as soon as EE is cast.

Correction: Illusion of Weakness actually works like FI in that if EE removes it you get the health. It doesn't help this build though because the health sacrifice to put up IoW is too great.

[Patccmoi]

Lol, nice idea with FI and EE ending. Quite funny build, you must be really hard to kill even though your offense isn't all that amazing. Still, 33% IAS scythe can do quite a bit of damage.

I'll try this out ^^

[NyxScythe]

basically u can farm with this build?

[arredondo]

Pat: Defensively it is the strongest setup I've made I think. Even if your team loses and you're 1v4, you can last a looong time if not forever unless they have the right tools. The AoE scythe under IAS on a Crippled foe is pretty decent damage, and 60AL foes go down under 10s when you use the two attack skills. Overall it works extremely well.

NyxScythe... I think this has huge potential in solo mode for farming, but I don't have a PvE account at the moment to test. This is a PvP build, but I want to get some feedback from PvE farmers with an altered version. I'll post that in this other thread (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?p=4480895#post4480895) to keep this one focused on PvP. If you can, I'd appreciate you testing it and commenting there if you can.

[NyxScythe]

wow i have to try out but i just got nightfall and my dervish is only lvl 7 T_T

[Boqu]

are you still taking dmg when run into aoe area such as fire storm?

just wondering.... such as ele's fire spike, they can't starburst you but they can starburst someone right next to you to dmg you and then phenix and inferno?

[arredondo]

Yes, you take damage that way. Just use Feigned Neutrality (with DP if you need it) to easily repair yourself.

[Boqu]

this is rather cool build can hit many people right on the face as a suprise... but I think it takes quite a bit practice to do it right, you know, as enchantment management.

the only weakness I can see here is untargetted dmg such as AOE, condition/hex, and premature ending of enchantment which will break your shadow form chain. the skills which can do that I can think of is mesmer's hex eater vortex... and careful of KD and interrupt and enchantment stripping when renew your shadowform chain.

good build.

[kaktis]

Also don't forget signets go through shadow form.

[arredondo]

Here's what I believe can affect a Shadow Form player:

Touches, Signets, non-direct spells (Firestorm), traps, non-direct enchant strips (Chilblains), Wells, Wards, Shouts (None Shall Pass!), Skills (Shock, Awe), non-direct damage of Rituals (Toxicity).

[sin auromancer]

Are you sure this works? when I try it the FI spell doesnt get activated after SF ends

[arredondo]

I've used it plenty... it does work.

- Make sure you aren't using Watchful Intervention; that does not work.

- Shadow Form does not trigger Faithful Intervention, Extended Enchants does. If SF ends before EE, it won't work. EE has to be the first enchant to expire, so use my attributes exactly.

[nutzizme]

where do u get EE?

[arredondo]

Extended Enchants is not an elite. Use a skill point to unlock it or Faction points to access it in PvP. Shadow Form is this build's elite.

[NME]

Nice build!
For your runes what do you use? Superior Scyth, Sup. Mystic, Sup/Major Vigor(Assuming) and what about the other 2? Vitae for both, becasue 480 -(75x2) +50 = 380HP and you said you had 400HP.

[thehulkuk]

I hope the Derv build Im gonna work oin will be a good counter. Im planning to remove enchantments and interrupt so you cant put any more on whilst doing damage.

[tinyfry]

I was just wondering whats the point of extend enchantments? I know with 16 mysticism there is some use since it lasts 25 seconds.. but anything less than 16 mysticism and EE lasts like 15 seconds or something like that which is shorter than most other Dervish enchantments. And since when EE runs out u lose all enchantments it acts more like a shortening of enchant duration rather than an extension.. so doesn't that make EE useless with anything less than 16 mysticism?

[arredondo]

NME: yes I use Sup. Vigor, Myst and Scythe. The others are optional but I like extra energy just in case. I go +60HP with one of my staffs to access health in an emergency.

thehulkuk: bring it! :grins:. It's not tough to make a counter build to any build in the game, but it's interesting when general builds have a problem handling a setup they aren't used to fighting.

tinyfry: It's a bit complex, but EE makes this build work the way it does in a way that makes it necessary if you are using a scythe as your main weapon. First off, Shadow Form IMHO must last as long as possible to be worth using. The penalty is so strong that you may as well get as much use of it as you can.

Now with that in mind, let's assume I go As/De with L16 Shadow Arts and a +20% enchant to get a lot out of SF. It would last about 25s, and then be down for 35s. I can L12 Scythe to get some decent damage from the weapon, but I lose access to the 33% IAS Heart of Fury because that is in Mysticism.

Double Strikes won't work with a scythe so the only other IAS I can try and get is Whirling Charge. That is less desirable because I'd have to gimp my Scythe attribute to L10 (with SA at L15) just to get decent stats for Wind Prayers. Even at L10 WP, Whirling Charge is only an 8s IAS stance with a long recharge. Without an IAS it isn't worth using a scythe for melee spam as a main attack.

Then there is the issue of energy. Unless you pump up Critical Strikes to L8, you are likely not going to be able to keep the build going once you add the other skills. That's another line that dilutes Shadow Arts and Scythe Mastery besides the added Wind Prayers.

Defense once Shadow Form ends with an Assassin primary is an issue. There are few consistently decent options to deal with this. You can go Shadow of Haste, but that puts gaps in between offensive assaults, and doesn't work well on smaller maps. I've used Generous was Tsungrai as a Rit secondary in some builds, but other than that, only the Dervish's Faithful Intervention works well enough to be used with little concern for something going wrong. That is in Mysticism, so off limits to the As/x, and it needs to be stripped to work right (which works best with EE's auto-strip).

By going De/As, a lot of these issues are resolved. Firstly, Extended Enchants is the only way outside of Arcane Echo from the Mesmer class that allows you to get over 20s of Shadow Form as an Assassin secondary. L12 SF is 17s, or 20s with the 20% enchant mod. With EE, you can get 25s worth because it can last as long as EE is up as long as the base time foe SF is 10s: 10s + 20% = 12s, EE doubles that to 24s.

When you pair that with Deadly Paradox for a 30s recharge, you only have a 5s-6s down time for Shadow Form. Because I use a low amount of Shadow Arts, I have more for Mysticism (L16) and Scythe (L14) while still getting as much Shadow Form use as a L16 Shadow Arts build.

The energy issue is not a problem because the Dervish gets mana back from enchants ending. And Extend Enchants role in removing Faithful Intervention at the perfect millisecond that I need it stripped is gold. I never have to time a manual strip, so I always have 50% HP and only need to put up the .25s cast of Feigned Neutrality for added support until SF is ready in five seconds.

The other enchants aren't helped by EE, but that's not important. Faithful Intervention and a low-stat Shadow Form are the main skills you are most concerned about, and without EE there's no easy way to get the most out of them for a Dervish primary.

[Kikos]

Ohhh I like this very much, arredondo I love you. ^^; :cloud9:

[drtstudios]

This build works extremly well for pulling and causing enemies to waist spells in PvE. I used this build and henchies/heros through out all the nightfall story line excluding the very first missions, since I could not get shadow form yet, and the very last mission, because of the enchant removing skills which can get through shadow form. I find that running ahead of your henchmen group, telling them to stay back, taking agro and then calling them back to you is one of the most effective henchmen tactics I've used. The only issues I ran in to was AoE triggering faithful intervention early, interupts of shadow form or extend enchantments, stripping of extend enchantments before shadow form was up and stance breaks, like wild blow, taking down deadly paradox. The problems were very rare though and thats why I used it so much. It is also works in RA well. Definatly one of my favorite dervish builds thus far.

[UKBouncer]

Very nice build. i managed to get nearly all of it set up pat, but cant find Shadow Form anywhere. I used faction points to unlock it. I'm using a D/A in Nightfall, but none of the skills traders seem to have it....any tips or advice would be most helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[arredondo]

Shadow Form is only available if you have GW:Factions, sorry.

[Viti Ligo]

Very nice build. i managed to get nearly all of it set up pat, but cant find Shadow Form anywhere. I used faction points to unlock it. I'm using a D/A in Nightfall, but none of the skills traders seem to have it....any tips or advice would be most helpful.

Thanks in advance.

Shadow Form is elite skill, so you have to cap it. First place to do so in Factions is from The Afflicted Soon Kim at Vizunah Square Mission. It's the first mission in Cantha if you come from elsewhere. You're at Vizunah Square after completing the "Welcomr to Cantha" quest from Mhenlo.

[UKBouncer]

Shadow Form is elite skill, so you have to cap it. First place to do so in Factions is from The Afflicted Soon Kim at Vizunah Square Mission. It's the first mission in Cantha if you come from elsewhere. You're at Vizunah Square after completing the "Welcomr to Cantha" quest from Mhenlo.

Ahhh, ok thanks. I do have all three, prophecies, factions and nightfall. So looks like I'm takin a trip to Cantha then :grin:

Thanks a lot guys :sunny:

[TakisKalakos]

anyone know how well say melonni would do with this build?

[JuNz]

Which mish was it to gain Shadow Form if i've crossed over from NF.

I'm in K.Centre but somehow it's kinda blurry where to gt it.

I'm new to GW so advance sry if i sound like a dork or sth... :undecided:

[arredondo]

You can only get it in Factions:

The Afflicted Soon Kim (Vizunah Square (Mission) / Sunjiang District Explorable))

The Afflicted Senku (The Eternal Grove (Mission) / Unwaking Waters (Mission))

The Afflicted Huu (Dragon's Throat)

[Zarfol]

Another possible swap for malicious strike/res would be Winds of Disenchantment, which you could use right when EE is about to expire, stripping 1 enchant from everyone nearby (which would probably be better in PVE if your team says its OK to skimp on the res)

EDIT: In any case, Extend Enchantments is a very powerful skill. Hopefully it doesn't get hit by the famous nerf bat. Extend Enchantments + Healing Hands = lol :grin:

[arredondo]

Just understand that for something like Healing Hands you can't pass the enchant extension over to someone else. On yourself you can make it last 24s (with enchant extender mod), but it can't be doubled for allies.

[JuNz]

wats your max HP and Energy u can hav with this build?

care to share?

cos right nw i'm facing a low Health and Energy crisis...405 Health and 28 Energy from Elite Sunspear set.

been racking my brain to solve tat...

any recommand?

[Visunavi]

omg im going to try this lmao. looks so cool :D

[Shobureiki]

Extended Enchants is not an elite. Use a skill point to unlock it or Faction points to access it in PvP. Shadow Form is this build's elite.

I'm sure Illusionary Weaponry mesmers could strike through Shadow form.

so

R/N Toucher
Me/W Illusionary Weaponrist

are two counters.

i think the enchantment removal dervishes that cast mystic sandstorm is a counter as well.

(just giving productive criticism counters to the build. don't want noobs going around spamming the build is invincible)

[Shobureiki]

i was finally able to test this build in pvp considering i found it so interesting. After a few RA,s i found out that if you don't hit them with crippling sweep and they kite, it's a problem. Spending time trying to chase a kiting foe really does make you lose those precious seconds and forces you to recover when you haven't even achieved anything and it's even worse when they cast a spell that removes the condition on themselves. I've found out that the majority of the flaws are after the first Shadow Form phase. This is where you are most weak since you must kite and get your life back. Assassins have teleported next to me, followed their chain combo with 1 or 2 kd and have killed me. Another time, i was preparing to cast my Shadow Form Phase 2 and a ranger interrupted my EE and i accidentaly casted SF without EE and since i was not invulnerable to attacks, he disrupted my FI as well. Though this build has it's strong points and it's weaks, it's an over well build. i give it a 8.7/10. Apparently, 22seconds in battle is not enough to finish it sometimes and evaders/blockers + getting blinded by Blinding Surge when im fighting next to my fellow teammates just adds on to it.. But like many other builds that are "anti-builds," i have found the use for this one. D/A Shadow Form are Ritualists worst enemy and nightmare. If you're a rituliast and you see a D/A running towards you and he happens to be a Shadow Defender, it means the "Grim Reaper" is coming to take you :) and i mean that literally. With invincible mode basically, and his AoE scythe, it takes out spirits so fast. Another problem i have found is the casting times. 1 second doesn't seem much but it really is and Faithful Intervention lasting 2, it's already wasted 2+ precoius seconds of the Shadow Form so make sure you cast Deadly Paradox at least 4-5 before you hit aggro then once aggro hits, activate the enchants. Mesmer's casting Diversion on either EE or SF doesn't help as well. During battle with FI on, my health was getting low from some of the SF flaws. When i was below 50%, FI took over and healed me... but can you guess what happened when SF ran out? I was down to 21 and Deadly Paradox + Feigned Neutrality really couldn't save me.

p.s: i've been called a noob quite a few times for kiting and trying to prepare SF phase 2. It's a lot harder than i thought >_> specially with a thumper on my back.

p.s.s: monks take this build out so well. with their constant healing and 25 seconds time not long enough to take them out b/c of the low dps, its a killer :P and plus their dismiss condition and contant kiting! UGH even those RITS

p.s.s.s: but it's oh ho ho so funny when 4 meleers gang up on you with your enchants on and they drop one by one :D

[Shobureiki]

im not sure, but i think i just found a really really ugly counter to this build.

Getting hit by the AoE effect of a scythe when the dervish is in Avatar of Grenth mode.

i need to test. if someone is able to do it, can you confirm if this is true or not? this will totally kill this build.

gladiator's defense and other skills like deadly riposte affects shadow form as well. so if you don't attack, there goes your seconds.

shatter enchantment + energy burn combo works really well when you're kiting and healing.

p.s: evading rits do get somewhat annoying.

[Shobureiki]

AoE scythe damage affects the build and it hurts

Death blossom AoE hurts when it's combined with Moebius Strike

Chilling Victory cold damage affects SF as well.

[Shobureiki]

going toe to toe with another dervish who is able to self heal (ex. VB + SoPL, FI + WI) isn't a good idea either. it was a standstill except i was the one kiting more.

death nova hurts more than i thought as well.

[Shobureiki]

sliver armor earth eles combined with sandstorm and their ward of melee hurts real bad.

[JuNz]

im not sure, but i think i just found a really really ugly counter to this build.

Getting hit by the AoE effect of a scythe when the dervish is in Avatar of Grenth mode.

i need to test. if someone is able to do it, can you confirm if this is true or not? this will totally kill this build.

gladiator's defense and other skills like deadly riposte affects shadow form as well. so if you don't attack, there goes your seconds.

shatter enchantment + energy burn combo works really well when you're kiting and healing.

p.s: evading rits do get somewhat annoying.


Juz to let u know.

Avatar of Grenth still can't dmg when u're in SF form.

I've tested with a guildmate and ya...tat can't touch me for 24 sec.

Also, swap Micr Strike for victory Sweep. It can hit up to 100dmg on a single hit.

P.S: been a long term user of tis build and i agree...it has it's pros an docn. but still...i'm still loving it.:D

[arredondo]

Well, I think he's talking about the non-direct AoE damage from the scythe. Normally if a scythe hits one of your teammates who is adjacent to you, you get hit as well. So AoG spammed on a buddy of yours is what he says strips SF off of you (eventually) because you aren't being targeted. I haven't tested it, but it is plausible.

In any case, thanks for the continued input from everyone. Lots of good stuff here.

[JuNz]

Well, I think he's talking about the non-direct AoE damage from the scythe. Normally if a scythe hits one of your teammates who is adjacent to you, you get hit as well. So AoG spammed on a buddy of yours is what he says strips SF off of you (eventually) because you aren't being targeted. I haven't tested it, but it is plausible.

In any case, thanks for the continued input from everyone. Lots of good stuff here.

cHeeRz bro~

i'm trying to improve tis build.

Will be hard...but it also will be fun ;)

[Shobureiki]

ive been playing with it for awhile and it seems as though you still dont get stripped, but im not entirely sure. i've been hit by the AoE scythe by a non-grenth and been damaged but nothing has happened yet. Still testing. I need to go do a scrimmage or something and test.

[LCSX]

I must not be doing this correctly. I have tested this build out - and I love how it should work - the problem I am having is that SF is taking way longer to recharge.

I am finding that I am out of protection for longer than the 5 seconds - and that even doing FN after EE ended - I am still down (after FN for 8 seconds).

It could be that I am not doing something right - but it appears that deadly paradox is only lasting a mere 6 seconds - and that its recharge is 10secs.

DP - EE - SF - FI - HoF >> EE ends >> DP - FN >> (8 seconds of nothing)

Then I can start over again -

any suggestions as to what is going wrong? was something nerfed?

[TheGreatPotato]

deadly paradox was nerfed from 50% to 33%, that is where your downtime is coming from.

[dark3]

deadly paradox was nerfed from 50% to 33%, that is where your downtime is coming from.

So is the build still viable? I was thinking about creating a Dervish.. :rolleyes:

[Psychotic]

So is the build still viable? I was thinking about creating a Dervish.. :rolleyes:

not really. possibly in pve you could tank for the duration of shadowform, stop, then cast it before the next group, but in the end it is just not very effective with the DP nerf.