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View Full Version : What HA FotM build is annoying/frustrating you the most right now?



Adslahnit
02-11-2006, 11:16
With the release of Nightfall, several new FotM's were introduced, beginning a new generation of fame farmers in HA. So...

What Flavor of the Month build is annoying/frustrating/getting on your nerves/catching you off guard the most right now?

Of course, you can counter each of them separately, but having counters for each and every one of them can be troublesome.

Please share your comments on how the new FotM has affected the new metagame as well.

foghorn leghorn
02-11-2006, 15:39
monk spike?

Shadowleaf
02-11-2006, 17:19
Searing Flames is more common than VIMway was a few weeks ago I dare say! It's really unbalancing to the point where you should probably have Mantra of Flame on your Monks.

Easy counter, but really, The fact that I bring such a specific defensive skill and get good use out of it most matches in HA...

I don't know for sure if it's just caught people by surprise or if it really is broken, but I hope to see less of the same thing over and over in any case.

Alleji
02-11-2006, 17:19
I don't see why IWAY, Rspike, Bspike and Touchers are even included. Touchers were never dominant in HA in the first place, 6v6 killed IWAY and Bspike and Rspike had been at the level of "waaaay below popular" for at least five months now.

Tucks
02-11-2006, 19:00
They are all pretty weak, and i notice you didnt include ranger condition pressure, by far the biggest FOTM since release simply because its so easy to run in the HA enviroment with limited room for utility. I'm not saying its overpowered, im saying its just a FOTM build that should be included.

Malchiel
02-11-2006, 19:01
I think searing flames is broken :I

flaming caster
02-11-2006, 20:15
the new upcomming fotm is probly 6 bonding monks spiking with signet of mystic wrath, this build is so defensive its just annoying

they have lifebonds, vital blessings, aegis chains, life barriers
even bad players can exploit this spike

ZiegDivine
02-11-2006, 22:21
they have lifebonds, vital blessings, aegis chains, life barriers
even bad players can exploit this spike

Not really. You have to have good coordination to run it. We (ImK) lost to it only once, and it was because 1. we never ran into it before and 2. Es was running it. We've ran into it a few times since, and we just outplay them. Dis-shot a blessed signet, pressure the BiPer, pre-prot key players, and it's gee gee.

With that said, Heroway is the most annoying FotM ... I don't even want to bother to get the 100 fame I need to rank up, I'd rather PvE at this point.

Deaths
03-11-2006, 03:23
I am playing HA since first release.

I never got this much of skips. Had never played against so many Hero ways. 6vs6 was a bad choice. But now its just a gimmick with just Heroways.

It was hard work to get to the halls and win the halls. Now u skip to hall every 2 run and just face Heroways. I cant say anything anymore.

melandrus elite
03-11-2006, 04:17
I picked hero interupts, because even though my groups crush them 19 out of 20 times, it is SOOOOO annoying trying to cast a 1/4 or 1/2 second skill and get impossibly interupted.

nightrunner
03-11-2006, 07:24
Heroway.

There's way too much of it, and on top of that, it's no fun to play against. TBH, I'd rather play against a PUG IWAY.

I am Bale
03-11-2006, 12:35
I don't really think that "Heroway" is a build, as Heros can be customized to play nearly any build. "Heroway" just means using heroes that can play any build. Right?

Nurse With Wound
03-11-2006, 16:15
Yes, you're right heroway isnt a build its a pest that destroyed competetive arena.

Djinn Effer
04-11-2006, 00:26
Yes, you're right heroway isnt a build its a pest that destroyed competetive arena.

Exactly, I can't wait until GvG even turns into an RTS based upon how well players can micro their heroes. Wouldn't that be funny to see?

"Congratulations to The Last Pride [EviL]: Last of Master, Bloodlight Eyes, Koss, Dunkaro, Zhed, Norgu, Tahlkora, Acolyte Jin."

Wuzzman
04-11-2006, 00:37
Exactly, I can't wait until GvG even turns into an RTS based upon how well players can micro their heroes. Wouldn't that be funny to see?

"Congratulations to The Last Pride [EviL]: Last of Master, Bloodlight Eyes, Koss, Dunkaro, Zhed, Norgu, Tahlkora, Acolyte Jin."

Hero'es will not have the effect on gvg that it does on HA. Simply because gvg is only done because you have a guild full of players you want to play with. Hero Ascent has been crap since febuary of 2006. People had a choice between playing in a HA pug or playing with the AI. Most people don't want to "pug" so they chose the AI. Its not even about farming fame. Its simple a preference and a common fact that no one but a very small few actually like the old ha. Now people have a choice to gvg with guildies or gvg with the AI. Most people chose guildies.

Tristan Chapin
04-11-2006, 13:19
Searing Flames is more common than VIMway was a few weeks ago I dare say! It's really unbalancing to the point where you should probably have Mantra of Flame on your Monks.

We've been running Mantra of Flame with superb results. It's useful on pretty much every map, most importantly the Hall itself.

And yet I don't see much of a problem with the preeminence of flame builds. At last elementalists can apply this new thing called pressure. That's never been in their lexicon before, by jove. That was the sole property of warriors. Elementalists were always wrist cutters (EMo Prodigy heal/wards), flashbots, some other kind of warder, or yet another kind of warder.



Hero'es will not have the effect on gvg that it does on HA. Simply because gvg is only done because you have a guild full of players you want to play with.Believe it or not, HA used to consist of teams FULL of players who wanted to play with each other until you GvGers voted in the 6v6 nerf.

Djinn Effer
04-11-2006, 17:32
Hero'es will not have the effect on gvg that it does on HA. Simply because gvg is only done because you have a guild full of players you want to play with. Hero Ascent has been crap since febuary of 2006. People had a choice between playing in a HA pug or playing with the AI. Most people don't want to "pug" so they chose the AI. Its not even about farming fame. Its simple a preference and a common fact that no one but a very small few actually like the old ha. Now people have a choice to gvg with guildies or gvg with the AI. Most people chose guildies.

I'm sorry but you completely missed my point. I was being fatuitous and rhetorical. I've been in top 20 guilds since early beta, believe me - I know. Teams of Heroes are never going to beat teams of full (at least decent) guilds. Also, I hate to give you a reality check but.. Don't pretend that you know what people want, most people don't even know what they want themselves - how would you? I mean, you could assume this is the way people feel... but to actually say that it is, now thats just a little wrong.

Now, just a little extra: This thread is about annoying HA builds, or use of bots can be grouped into this... So, I'm not going to venture off topic too far. The entire debate here with people is this:

Heroes are not players.
Henchmen are not players.
Humans are players.
Humans are now a minority to Heroes and Henchmen.

This concludes HA is no longer a PvP arena, but with the added AI support and majority then it is in fact as much of a PvE area as Sorrow's Furnace. Very few differences actually, in PvE you get gold and item drops. Well, I guess you can still do that in HA (chest after hall win), but the relative association to this in HA is fame and faction gained. Actual good players have always and will always be more effective than AI in both PvE and PvP, but by very definition PvP should be the players verses players, not players verses player+heroes.

I think I've gotten my point across, no need to continue.

Wuzzman
04-11-2006, 21:58
I'm sorry but you completely missed my point. I was being fatuitous and rhetorical. I've been in top 20 guilds since early beta, believe me - I know. Teams of Heroes are never going to beat teams of full (at least decent) guilds. Also, I hate to give you a reality check but.. Don't pretend that you know what people want, most people don't even know what they want themselves - how would you? I mean, you could assume this is the way people feel... but to actually say that it is, now thats just a little wrong.

Now, just a little extra: This thread is about annoying HA builds, or use of bots can be grouped into this... So, I'm not going to venture off topic too far. The entire debate here with people is this:

Heroes are not players.
Henchmen are not players.
Humans are players.
Humans are now a minority to Heroes and Henchmen.

This concludes HA is no longer a PvP arena, but with the added AI support and majority then it is in fact as much of a PvE area as Sorrow's Furnace. Very few differences actually, in PvE you get gold and item drops. Well, I guess you can still do that in HA (chest after hall win), but the relative association to this in HA is fame and faction gained. Actual good players have always and will always be more effective than AI in both PvE and PvP, but by very definition PvP should be the players verses players, not players verses player+heroes.

I think I've gotten my point across, no need to continue.

Unfortuently I don't really need to have ESP to tell you that heroway is run every 7 out of 10 matches. Now lets recap. Players will never hero way in gvg if the heroes where even better then players. Too much respect for playing as a team in gvg to even bring heroes. I can honestly say that the mass majority do gvg because its fun. The hard cores like us will want to win, but most just do it for fun. Fun to them is simply playing with their guildies. You have nothing like that in hero ascent. Nothing close. The average pug even in a fame farming build has the average life span of 2 runs, and thats assuming that they win. There is no having fun with random noobs who you don't want to play with who are liable to do the very stupid things that gets on your nerves in ra. While ha may have not been designed for the intent of the hard cores and hard cores only, what can a man do if he doesn't have friends online or guildies and still want to ha? Ask for r3+ and hopes they don't disband after the first game? And I know this is not Anet problem but it sure as hell became yours because that same person don't need a group of r3+ to have his fun in ha now. And from the looks of it your even surprised that he chose heroes over waiting around for competent players who seem to be in short supply. Yep I wonder how many months you spent thinking to yourself its "not my problem you can't get into a group make some friends (add your noun)". Karma is a ***** ain't it?

Djinn Effer
05-11-2006, 00:34
Unfortuently I don't really need to have ESP to tell you that heroway is run every 7 out of 10 matches. Now lets recap. Players will never hero way in gvg if the heroes where even better then players. Too much respect for playing as a team in gvg to even bring heroes. I can honestly say that the mass majority do gvg because its fun. The hard cores like us will want to win, but most just do it for fun. Fun to them is simply playing with their guildies. You have nothing like that in hero ascent. Nothing close. The average pug even in a fame farming build has the average life span of 2 runs, and thats assuming that they win. There is no having fun with random noobs who you don't want to play with who are liable to do the very stupid things that gets on your nerves in ra. While ha may have not been designed for the intent of the hard cores and hard cores only, what can a man do if he doesn't have friends online or guildies and still want to ha? Ask for r3+ and hopes they don't disband after the first game? And I know this is not Anet problem but it sure as hell became yours because that same person don't need a group of r3+ to have his fun in ha now. And from the looks of it your even surprised that he chose heroes over waiting around for competent players who seem to be in short supply. Yep I wonder how many months you spent thinking to yourself its "not my problem you can't get into a group make some friends (add your noun)". Karma is a ***** ain't it?

Its funny you keep quoting me, of all people. Want me to point out something mind shattering to you?

YOU ARE EXTREMELY BIASED!

Get that? Okay. Let me explain: First you say GvG is sacred because people like playing with their guildies.

So there, you are clearly taking the side of well established players with guilds. Later, you come to say that HA is (insert random nastiness) because people don't have guilds or friends!

Wow, wow wow wow.. You do realize... GvG would be just as bad if you tried to pug it, right?

Its the same exact thing! Without a guild or friends you arn't going to get very ****ing far. Its Guild Wars, not Solo Wars: You are meant to play with a guild, you are meant to socialize and meet people. You are meant to help build and improve the community! Thats all ANet ever wanted.

So why is HA any different than GvG? HA people had guilds, some HA people played HA just because they enjoyed it and HA people with guilds did generally do better than those without.

Try this if you will: Find people whom you have never met before in your life (in-game, not real life) and invite them to your guild or guest them to GvG with you. Only you. No other guildies. You are then playing the role of a person in HA forming a pug group.

Let me know how that goes, dear.

(Unless you want to admit that I'm right, in which case I'll tell you now that the result will be catastrophic failure.)

melandrus elite
05-11-2006, 04:22
Its funny you keep quoting me, of all people. Want me to point out something mind shattering to you?

YOU ARE EXTREMELY BIASED!

Get that? Okay. Let me explain: First you say GvG is sacred because people like playing with their guildies.

So there, you are clearly taking the side of well established players with guilds. Later, you come to say that HA is (insert random nastiness) because people don't have guilds or friends!

Wow, wow wow wow.. You do realize... GvG would be just as bad if you tried to pug it, right?

Its the same exact thing! Without a guild or friends you arn't going to get very ****ing far. Its Guild Wars, not Solo Wars: You are meant to play with a guild, you are meant to socialize and meet people. You are meant to help build and improve the community! Thats all ANet ever wanted.

So why is HA any different than GvG? HA people had guilds, some HA people played HA just because they enjoyed it and HA people with guilds did generally do better than those without.

Try this if you will: Find people whom you have never met before in your life (in-game, not real life) and invite them to your guild or guest them to GvG with you. Only you. No other guildies. You are then playing the role of a person in HA forming a pug group.

Let me know how that goes, dear.

(Unless you want to admit that I'm right, in which case I'll tell you now that the result will be catastrophic failure.)

Wow you really have an understanding for the games purpose, but then again it is call ed GUILDwars no PUGwars, even though to grind off 3 or 4 faction Ill do a pug every once in a while

ZiegDivine
05-11-2006, 04:51
Wow you really have an understanding for the games purpose, but then again it is call ed GUILDwars no PUGwars, even though to grind off 3 or 4 faction Ill do a pug every once in a while

Who said anything about pugging? Djinn was talking about playing with people from either your guild or from your friend's list. Do you know how many of the top players pug? This has been said over and over ever since I have been on these forums: "Teams that win the Hall of Heroes are teams of friends or a guild. Pugs rarely win halls." Got that? Pug rarely win halls. Well, that was BEFORE you could solo HA with a stance tank and get a bambi.

Wuzzman
05-11-2006, 06:02
Its funny you keep quoting me, of all people. Want me to point out something mind shattering to you?

YOU ARE EXTREMELY BIASED!

Get that? Okay. Let me explain: First you say GvG is sacred because people like playing with their guildies.

So there, you are clearly taking the side of well established players with guilds. Later, you come to say that HA is (insert random nastiness) because people don't have guilds or friends!

Wow, wow wow wow.. You do realize... GvG would be just as bad if you tried to pug it, right?

Its the same exact thing! Without a guild or friends you arn't going to get very ****ing far. Its Guild Wars, not Solo Wars: You are meant to play with a guild, you are meant to socialize and meet people. You are meant to help build and improve the community! Thats all ANet ever wanted.

So why is HA any different than GvG? HA people had guilds, some HA people played HA just because they enjoyed it and HA people with guilds did generally do better than those without.

Try this if you will: Find people whom you have never met before in your life (in-game, not real life) and invite them to your guild or guest them to GvG with you. Only you. No other guildies. You are then playing the role of a person in HA forming a pug group.

Let me know how that goes, dear.

(Unless you want to admit that I'm right, in which case I'll tell you now that the result will be catastrophic failure.)


I think you missed the point. People who GvG don't always do the same for Hero Ascent. Hero Ascent is also fun with guilds and friends but unfortuently the critiera for hero ascent is not "you must be in a guild or have friends to do hero ascent". Hero Ascent for most people is random. GvG isn't. Even if a person loses in gvg he is likely to say "Oh this team sucks", because those people are A. His friends and B. He is very much part of the team. Pugging gvg is pointless, you either have guildies or you don't.

SumXone
05-11-2006, 13:14
Now, just a little extra: This thread is about annoying HA builds, or use of bots can be grouped into this... So, I'm not going to venture off topic too far. The entire debate here with people is this:

Heroes are not players.
Henchmen are not players.
Humans are players.
Humans are now a minority to Heroes and Henchmen.
well, what does this tell you?
IF more people would actually LIKE the old HA, there would be more people-teams, am i right?
BUT it seems, people LIKE heroes, so there are many hero teams.
So tell me why does anybody think, the "majority" does not like heroes? because if so, the hero teams would disappear in time.
what i think is: there is a very vocal minority around here, trying to make the point that heroes are baaaaad for HA. the majority of players never post in forums like these, they do not care what eloquent pro-players think is best for them.
they decide through their actions: forming hero teams and having the fun of their lives.

so the more hero teams there are, the more people like it. you can not disprove that.
the silent masses outweight the loud minority, sorry.

ZiegDivine
05-11-2006, 13:54
You really don't have a clue, do you SumXone? You have no idea what's going on in HA. Before I get any further, have you ever been in HA or tombs? Have you read these forums (the HA portion)? Have you ever won halls? After you answer those I'll see if I'll take the time and the energy to explain why heroes are a bad idea in pvp ... again

SumXone
05-11-2006, 14:50
You really don't have a clue, do you SumXone? You have no idea what's going on in HA. Before I get any further, have you ever been in HA or tombs? Have you read these forums (the HA portion)? Have you ever won halls? After you answer those I'll see if I'll take the time and the energy to explain why heroes are a bad idea in pvp ... again
yes, yes and yes. i have done all 3 things for about 1.5 years now (almost r7).
and i still think heroes in HA are a good thing.
and no, i will not get your "point" why you do not like heroes in HA. it still is pvp, you play against 1, mostly 2 guys with heroes and usually and extreme damage overload. deal with it. it's not like hero teams hold halls.
i get a huge kick out of it and so do a lot of people.

another thing:
there are just so many hero teams, because SEARING FLAMES/SAC-METEORSHOWER are so incredible on right now. without SF, hero teams are neither easy to run nor very succesfull.
that is the problem, not heroes per se.


edit:
what is it with you people insisting, that only guild-teams and friendlist r9 teams should be able to hold halls? do you get cheap thrills off this?
WHY shouldn't be anybody be able to hold halls once in a while, why do you think you have the right to try to exclude people from this experience?
it is a game, and not a very good way to boost your self esteem. there are teams holding halls 25 times in a row with a 6 monk team, and you cry about henchteams? HA NEVER was high lvl pvp. it was one big FOTM after another: spirit spam, dualsmite, iway, bloodspike. ppl got their rank from spaming fertile season for heavens sake.

news flash: top guilds + r9 pro teams = <1% GW population. no one cares about your elitism. why should anet listen to you? the majority LIKES heroes in pvp.

Wuzzman
05-11-2006, 15:04
yes, yes and yes. i have done all 3 things for about 1.5 years now (almost r7).
and i still think heroes in HA are a good thing.
and no, i will not get your "point" why you do not like heroes in HA. it still is pvp, you play against 1, mostly 2 guys with heroes and usually and extreme damage overload. deal with it. it's not like hero teams hold halls.
i get a huge kick out of it and so do a lot of people.

another thing:
there are just so many hero teams, because SEARING FLAMES/SAC-METEORSHOWER are so incredible on right now. without SF, hero teams are neither easy to run nor very succesfull.
that is the problem, not heroes per se.


edit:
what is it with you people insisting, that only guild-teams and friendlist r9 teams should be able to hold halls? do you get cheap thrills off this?
WHY shouldn't be anybody be able to hold halls once in a while, why do you think you have the right to try to exclude people from this experience?
it is a game, and not a very good way to boost your self esteem. there are teams holding halls 25 times in a row with a 6 monk team, and you cry about henchteams? HA NEVER was high lvl pvp. it was one big FOTM after another: spirit spam, dualsmite, iway, bloodspike. ppl got their rank from spaming fertile season for heavens sake.

news flash: top guilds + r9 pro teams = <1% GW population. no one cares about your elitism. why should anet listen to you? the majority LIKES heroes in pvp.

I've been saying this for at least 3 weeks....

ZiegDivine
05-11-2006, 17:11
What majority? Where is it? Where is this overwhelming SILENT majority? Are they all in some hidden ID that I'm not privy to? Are they all sitting in The Vault and that's why I get so many skips? WTF? You keep saying people like it .... WHERE THE **** ARE THESE PEOPLE? There are like 5 people in this forum that said that they liked Heroes in HA. I know, I know, only a small fraction of people visit the forum ... but these are the only people that I can find that like Heros ...

Here's some simple math for you. Let's say that before NF only 10 teams were playing in HA .... after the release of NF 50 teams started playing, but let's say that there was only 1 full human team left among them. That means in the end your "oh so silent" majority is actually a minority. There were 60 people in HA before Heroes, but now there are how many? That's right, 55 people, kids. Now, this is a simple math problem, I'm sure you got it, and guess what? The number of teams that there are, compared to the number of teams that there were ratio is NOT 5:1 ... it's less. So stop screaming about your silent majority, and go back and read what real HAers said about disliking Heroes in HA ... it won't take long, the arguement has been spelled out for people like you and Gaile a lot of times. Just read Nurse's post, there are some very nice bolded parts in there.

Bacon
05-11-2006, 17:33
well, what does this tell you?
IF more people would actually LIKE the old HA, there would be more people-teams, am i right?
BUT it seems, people LIKE heroes, so there are many hero teams.
So tell me why does anybody think, the "majority" does not like heroes? because if so, the hero teams would disappear in time.
what i think is: there is a very vocal minority around here, trying to make the point that heroes are baaaaad for HA. the majority of players never post in forums like these, they do not care what eloquent pro-players think is best for them.
they decide through their actions: forming hero teams and having the fun of their lives.


Most the people from old HA quit because of new HA.

People like Heroes because they're too lazy to get a damn group together (hence a LFG system would work.)

Heroes are bad for HA. It's SUPPOSTED to be PvP. Now its PvE.

So what is the Hero vs Hero arena supposted to be used for? Thats right, making hero teams. Why turn HA into a duplicate of that?

Can you not understand this?

Wuzzman
05-11-2006, 21:28
What majority? Where is it? Where is this overwhelming SILENT majority? Are they all in some hidden ID that I'm not privy to? Are they all sitting in The Vault and that's why I get so many skips? WTF? You keep saying people like it .... WHERE THE **** ARE THESE PEOPLE? There are like 5 people in this forum that said that they liked Heroes in HA. I know, I know, only a small fraction of people visit the forum ... but these are the only people that I can find that like Heros ...

Here's some simple math for you. Let's say that before NF only 10 teams were playing in HA .... after the release of NF 50 teams started playing, but let's say that there was only 1 full human team left among them. That means in the end your "oh so silent" majority is actually a minority. There were 60 people in HA before Heroes, but now there are how many? That's right, 55 people, kids. Now, this is a simple math problem, I'm sure you got it, and guess what? The number of teams that there are, compared to the number of teams that there were ratio is NOT 5:1 ... it's less. So stop screaming about your silent majority, and go back and read what real HAers said about disliking Heroes in HA ... it won't take long, the arguement has been spelled out for people like you and Gaile a lot of times. Just read Nurse's post, there are some very nice bolded parts in there.


isn't the amount of games allowed in a given moment caped? Also fights been alot faster.. more people are losing in games in under a minute or beter yet rage quiting. Ultimately anet has the final numbers but since they aren't alarmed(hell from what I can tell from gaile their pleased) your "majority" is yet a minority. Reminds me of the "Factions sucks" argument.

Bacon
05-11-2006, 22:53
isn't the amount of games allowed in a given moment caped? Also fights been alot faster.. more people are losing in games in under a minute or beter yet rage quiting. Ultimately anet has the final numbers but since they aren't alarmed(hell from what I can tell from gaile their pleased) your "majority" is yet a minority. Reminds me of the "Factions sucks" argument.

The amount of games in a moment isn't capped... Besides in the vault and Halls.

They're pleased because the people who don't even HA often (which is a lot of people) are happy. This means the real HA'ers are the minority. Why are we the minority? Because we all quit playing because of this bull****, while the PvE'ers flood the place, play a couple matches, and go back to PvE (real PvE, not HA PvE.)

Anet needs to understand HA was meant for PvP'ers. Instead they attract all the PvEers to HA. Why? That way they can call the PvE'rs the majority, and say "Our polls show the majority like the change." The majority has nothing to do with PvP, yet they continue to do this.

Wuzzman
05-11-2006, 23:00
I don't see....any pve'ers in ha. Why do I know this? Because they be using pve builds. However I do see alot of just plain new people in ha.

SumXone
06-11-2006, 00:01
They're pleased because the people who don't even HA often (which is a lot of people) are happy. This means the real HA'ers are the minority. Why are we the minority? Because we all quit playing because of this bull****, while the PvE'ers flood the place, play a couple matches, and go back to PvE (real PvE, not HA PvE.)

Anet needs to understand HA was meant for PvP'ers. Instead they attract all the PvEers to HA. Why? That way they can call the PvE'rs the majority, and say "Our polls show the majority like the change." The majority has nothing to do with PvP, yet they continue to do this.
anet sees gvg as the real top tier pvp. play gvg for the big cash, fame, friends and fans.
and i could not agree more. HA always was a big FOTM cookie-cutter-build fest. so ppl hold halls 30 times in a row in the middle of the night with spirit spam, bloodspike, healing ball? who cares? that is not high lvl pvp, so stop pretending it is.

so anet attrackts loads of new ppl to HA? great! that should exactly be what they wanted.
so the majority is pve players now? great! majority is majority, democracy ftw.

just wait, the pve'rs might actually turn into pvp'ers. and hey, there might be people enjoying both: pve and pvp.

Wuzzman
06-11-2006, 00:08
anet sees gvg as the real top tier pvp. play gvg for the big cash, fame, friends and fans.
and i could not agree more. HA always was a big FOTM cookie-cutter-build fest. so ppl hold halls 30 times in a row in the middle of the night with spirit spam, bloodspike, healing ball? who cares? that is not high lvl pvp, so stop pretending it is.

so anet attrackts loads of new ppl to HA? great! that should exactly be what they wanted.
so the majority is pve players now? great! majority is majority, democracy ftw.

just wait, the pve'rs might actually turn into pvp'ers. and hey, there might be people enjoying both: pve and pvp.

couldn't have said it better myself.

Ayumu
06-11-2006, 00:30
so anet attrackts loads of new ppl to HA? great! that should exactly be what they wanted. Here's a little math to think about: For every team of 8vs8 PvP players that quit you have to attract 8 (eight!) teams of Heroway players just to keep the number of people in HA constant. And that would mean there'd be a lot more teams in HA now than there were before. The increased number of jumps on the low level maps suggests otherwise.

projection
06-11-2006, 11:46
There is a new cookie cutter build coming...

Should add to topic... paragon synergies are insane for HA.

http://panikk.org/~nicolai/gm/newfotm.jpg

http://panikk.org/~nicolai/gm/newfotmfull.jpg

~1k fame run ><

Malibu Illusion
06-11-2006, 13:07
I've found the searing flames groups quite easy to counter, although it definitely requires dedicating one too many skills to the cause.

I usually play as monk and have been running Mantra of Flame and keeping Extinguish to hand. Both can be every effective when used correctly.

That said, I've also played in SF groups myself and actually ran with one ele running a ranger secondary equipping "winter" and Mantra of Frost to negate people's Mantra of Flame advantage and give us the defense boost. That rolled other teams running with SF eles pretty fast and I'd imagine would work with other builds also.

I still agree that the SF build takes too much to counter properly for too little effort and coordination, though.

In relation to heroway, well, it doesn't belong in any form of PvP arena, end of.

SumXone
06-11-2006, 18:09
There is a new cookie cutter build coming...

Should add to topic... paragon synergies are insane for HA.

http://panikk.org/~nicolai/gm/newfotm.jpg

http://panikk.org/~nicolai/gm/newfotmfull.jpg

~1k fame run ><
http://userserv.fh-reutlingen.de/~petereit/images/gw/holding.jpg
hf

not certain on the second symbiosis though...

Shadowleaf
06-11-2006, 18:41
That build is already all over the place. It's more difficult to beat than Searing Flames, but that's probably because I've been up against Searing Flames as a Monk constantly for the past few days, it's just standard routine to heal through... I even stopped using Mantra of Flame.

Alleji
06-11-2006, 20:44
I think searing flames is broken :I
I think you're a bad player :I

Wilhelm the Great
06-11-2006, 21:51
Anet needs to understand HA was meant for PvP'ers. Instead they attract all the PvEers to HA.

If the gamers that have spent the majority of the time playing through the storyline (PvE) aren't allowed in halls? Then why are the Pvpers allowed in the rest of the game?

I have no problem seeing Joe Schmo with his Tyrian Pathfinder title there, I have no problem if somehow he defeats me, hats off to him.


But on topic, the SF eles are all over, same with the RAO Thumpers, both of which will get nerfed. At least these Nightfall FotM are funner to play against than vimway/iway/dualsmite,

projection
06-11-2006, 22:36
sumx, you're fairly close, but some skills are off...

But yeah... iQ ran a build with 2 paragons (totally different skills). I checked paragon skills and adapted running 2 bunnies with more holding power and different paragons.

I got about 1800 fame out of this build in the last 10 hours. I can say that i've abused it enough, and there are very simple counters to it... Vocal minority?

Every noob is running it, and they will get over the fact that the reason my team won were the r11ish monks ><

grimwold
06-11-2006, 23:17
amazingly off topic from me i know, but where have u got team builder with the new skills from ? latest one from the site is 0.6.6 and its not got the new stuff on yet. cheers.

SumXone
06-11-2006, 23:50
sumx, you're fairly close, but some skills are off...

But yeah... iQ ran a build with 2 paragons (totally different skills). I checked paragon skills and adapted running 2 bunnies with more holding power and different paragons.

I got about 1800 fame out of this build in the last 10 hours. I can say that i've abused it enough, and there are very simple counters to it... Vocal minority?

Every noob is running it, and they will get over the fact that the reason my team won were the r11ish monks ><

well, i ran this build with henchway a while now (oh yes, despise me, i don't care), we changed the "incoming!" para to be a restoration para screamer, too, with slightly different skills (mending refrain etc) but the same elite. the pure volume of spamable restoration skills is incredible, health almost never drops under 90%.
the monk has incredible amounts of energy, allowing him to spam prot spirit etc, spirit bond etc. making you almost unspikeable due to a lack of enchant removal in HA these days.

but god help you, if you fight another team like this. happened to us (we: henchway: they r9+ peopleway) we fought for 30 minutes then we rolled a dice and we resigned.
as more and more ppl play this build, this becomes an issue: the build lacks damage big time, 2 thumpers are not enough.

projection
07-11-2006, 05:11
i know, that's why you make a rollover build for that build and make a lot of fame.

2 Domination Mesmer, 2 Thumper, 2 Monk = GG that build and most other ****, or hex degen rapes it too.

Shadowleaf
07-11-2006, 05:57
but god help you, if you fight another team like this. happened to us (we: henchway: they r9+ peopleway) we fought for 30 minutes then we rolled a dice and we resigned.


That happened to us too, we won though. It wasn't you though, I think they were full peopleway too.

Symon Butterfingers
07-11-2006, 06:56
I'm sorry but you completely missed my point. I was being fatuitous and rhetorical. I've been in top 20 guilds since early beta, believe me - I know. Teams of Heroes are never going to beat teams of full (at least decent) guilds. Also, I hate to give you a reality check but.. Don't pretend that you know what people want, most people don't even know what they want themselves - how would you? I mean, you could assume this is the way people feel... but to actually say that it is, now thats just a little wrong.

Now, just a little extra: This thread is about annoying HA builds, or use of bots can be grouped into this... So, I'm not going to venture off topic too far. The entire debate here with people is this:

Heroes are not players.
Henchmen are not players.
Humans are players.
Humans are now a minority to Heroes and Henchmen.

This concludes HA is no longer a PvP arena, but with the added AI support and majority then it is in fact as much of a PvE area as Sorrow's Furnace. Very few differences actually, in PvE you get gold and item drops. Well, I guess you can still do that in HA (chest after hall win), but the relative association to this in HA is fame and faction gained. Actual good players have always and will always be more effective than AI in both PvE and PvP, but by very definition PvP should be the players verses players, not players verses player+heroes.

I think I've gotten my point across, no need to continue.I completely agree with Wuzzman. If someone needs reality check it is you.

I actually went to HA today and played it for the first time... more than a year later after i bought this game. We got crushed, but w/e - we played for fun and not for fame and privilege of calling eachother noobs. Thanks to heroes that is.

Shadowleaf
07-11-2006, 17:18
Comparing Heroway to any kind of PvE is rediculous. Well, it's understandable for that someone could forget how easy and systematic PvE play is.

In PvE all you need to do is send in your wammos and the Monks heal people from the back. Usually, nothing rushes back and spikes the Monks. They just pound on the wammos. Also, the PvE mobs rarely have healers, and if they do, they're really easy to kill.

You also don't need anything but straight DPS.

So like I said, comparing heroway to PvE is stupid.

Why is this even an issue anyway? For you elite rank 9+ been playing since beta know everything about guild wars, who cares, you can flawless any heroway team. Don't say you can't, because my team of recently converted WoW raiders always flawless the "one pump chumps" as we call them (The glyph of sac meteor showering searing flames heroways)

So who cares? These guys would be in a PuG if heroway wasn't availible and you would flawless the PuG instead.

SumXone
07-11-2006, 18:51
Comparing Heroway to any kind of PvE is rediculous. Well, it's understandable for that someone could forget how easy and systematic PvE play is.

In PvE all you need to do is send in your wammos and the Monks heal people from the back. Usually, nothing rushes back and spikes the Monks. They just pound on the wammos. Also, the PvE mobs rarely have healers, and if they do, they're really easy to kill.

You also don't need anything but straight DPS.

So like I said, comparing heroway to PvE is stupid.

Why is this even an issue anyway? For you elite rank 9+ been playing since beta know everything about guild wars, who cares, you can flawless any heroway team. Don't say you can't, because my team of recently converted WoW raiders always flawless the "one pump chumps" as we call them (The glyph of sac meteor showering searing flames heroways)

So who cares? These guys would be in a PuG if heroway wasn't availible and you would flawless the PuG instead.

you are right.
but some people need the ego boost of defeating 6 ppl. 2 ppl will not feed their ego enough. i mean defeating real ppl in a computergame is better than anything!!!11

back to topic:

the new 2p 2r/w 2mo team is definetively the most annoying.
they can't even take the alter, they have to rely on luck (team leaves hero alone on alter) or the other team (henchway clears the alter for them). i have never seen such a team get the alter in a real fight.
and THAT is, why even henchway can play it. there is absolutely no skill involved playing it, the monks have infinite energy, everyone gets healed for 100hp all 3-4 seconds, the thumpers just lay fertile and thump the most annoying enemy player.

and yet, ppl who farm their fame with this incredible easy build will call themselfes "Pro". and of course they never used iway or spiritspam to get their rank, instead they used this even more easy build. hall jumps + luck = holding for hours.

a truly lame build. :grin: :thumbsup:

Parker Bsb
07-11-2006, 19:02
I closed the last heroway thread because it got out of hand. Don't turn this into another heroway thread.

Buddah
08-11-2006, 06:44
the new 2p 2r/w 2mo team is definetively the most annoying.
they can't even take the alter, they have to rely on luck (team leaves hero alone on alter) or the other team (henchway clears the alter for them). i have never seen such a team get the alter in a real fight.


I'll agree on this for most of the points, but for a different reason I find it annoying.


Simply because the way to beat it is a couple necro skills, but so few use them in HA. Just having one of the necro anti-shout skills almost wrecks this build. Sadly these skills have little use beyond just shutting down paragons.

Shadowleaf
08-11-2006, 09:09
Buddah, just the fact that they are in Curses makes it easy to include them in a build that works against other builds... And Ulcerous Lungs at least causes degen to non-shouters. Oh, and Vocal Minority is a nice Cover Hex.

Also, Well of Silence causes Degen... So it's not like you are going to have no use for the skills against other teams.

Alleji
08-11-2006, 18:55
i know, that's why you make a rollover build for that build and make a lot of fame.

2 Domination Mesmer, 2 Thumper, 2 Monk = GG that build and most other ****, or hex degen rapes it too.Problem is, you won't make 1800 fame a day with a rollover build. You might get 40-50 fame per run rolling henchway and paragonway left and right, but you won't hold for 3 hours.

But people want to hold for 3 hours, thus everyone is taking the chance that they'll be the one team that actually gets on that altar while every hex team with a brain is sleeping. Of course, out of 50 paragonway teams, 49 will get peanuts, but 1 will get 1000 fame. While out of 5 hex teams, all 5 will get 5-8 quick wins in a row with a couple holds if you're good and then get owned by seven meteor showers or two real teams, because the build has zero holding power...

SumXone
08-11-2006, 20:01
Problem is, you won't make 1800 fame a day with a rollover build. You might get 40-50 fame per run rolling henchway and paragonway left and right, but you won't hold for 3 hours.

But people want to hold for 3 hours, thus everyone is taking the chance that they'll be the one team that actually gets on that altar while every hex team with a brain is sleeping. Of course, out of 50 paragonway teams, 49 will get peanuts, but 1 will get 1000 fame. While out of 5 hex teams, all 5 will get 5-8 quick wins in a row with a couple holds if you're good and then get owned by seven meteor showers or two real teams, because the build has zero holding power...

that's right, holding 30 times in a row is usually done in the early morning when there is no real competition.
at this time, jumps happen all the time, and all you'll face is the occational henchway or lost drunk ventrillo party. later that day, you can post cool screens showing your emote and brag about it. but it's not a big deal.

lifeinthefridge
15-11-2006, 04:51
I am playing HA since first release.

I never got this much of skips. Had never played against so many Hero ways. 6vs6 was a bad choice. But now its just a gimmick with just Heroways.

It was hard work to get to the halls and win the halls. Now u skip to hall every 2 run and just face Heroways. I cant say anything anymore.

Actually I get less skips... strange mabye cause theres so many heroways

MAOLeader
17-11-2006, 00:04
Actually I get less skips... strange mabye cause theres so many heroways



Can't say I agree, mate. Definitely more skips for me

ZiegDivine
17-11-2006, 00:07
I haven't had a full map rotation since 8v8.

Kamahl
19-11-2006, 18:31
double para is by far the worst because paras will get nerfed but not before it will train a generation of even scrubier ha monks then before

Wuzzman
19-11-2006, 19:34
double para is by far the worst because paras will get nerfed but not before it will train a generation of even scrubier ha monks then before

Say that again I don't think I could find pug for a good monk now because they are too use to the ulimated energy and almost invinci defense of a paragon shouts and chants...

tiger-bunny
20-11-2006, 12:44
tyrese gibson holding build, with the 2x searing flames, roa , paragon, monks

its lame :(

Lord Natural
20-11-2006, 19:11
Probably uber-defensive holding-build teams. Facing a build like 2 monks, 2 defensive paragons, an ele with 3 wards and gale, and 1 thumper is just annoying. They do so little damage that you have no real chance of losing (in an unconditional 1v1), yet are so defensive that, depending on your team build, it can take ages to break through the defense.

FuriousWallace
20-11-2006, 20:21
Probably uber-defensive holding-build teams. Facing a build like 2 monks, 2 defensive paragons, an ele with 3 wards and gale, and 1 thumper is just annoying. They do so little damage that you have no real chance of losing (in an unconditional 1v1), yet are so defensive that, depending on your team build, it can take ages to break through the defense.

Completely Agree, and they are multiplying daily due to the one team that gets in hoh and stays until the hexers show up. Can't wait for the fix!

Deaths
21-11-2006, 23:30
I was playing a full defensive build Heroway. The other teams could just nit scratch me. But it was really annoying. Because i didnt feel like i was playing with other players.

Hephaistion
23-11-2006, 13:34
Completely Agree, and they are multiplying daily due to the one team that gets in hoh and stays until the hexers show up. Can't wait for the fix!

That would be my necro hex build that kills every paragon build in 2 minutes in 1v1 ^^
-- Terra

Mathius Clarkus
23-11-2006, 19:48
no vimway or dual smite on the poll?

Sertu
30-11-2006, 12:41
vs signet of mystic wrath spike = a very very long match

Alleji
30-11-2006, 17:13
no vimway or dual smite on the poll?
Have you actually played HA in the past 2 months?

The "ye olde" half of the poll has no reason to be there either. Those builds didn't simply lose their FotM status ages ago, they ceased to exist.