Conviction

[Arias Tama]

Can anybody tell me what's the first place where you can get conviction I want in on a canthan char but don't know where I can get it or maybe a boss in the beginning using it.

Anybody?

[Wiziu]

Skill trainers in outposts of Elona. I've got it from Kamadan or Jokunar Diggins.

[Arias Tama]

Conviction cannot be found in either Kamadan or Jokunar diggins maybe you are confused with another skill?

[Lenox]

You can also, and I find that easier, unlock it with balthazar faction and then your dervish will be able to buy it at every skill trader.

[Arias Tama]

Oh ofcourse doh...

[shaktiboi]

You can also, and I find that easier, unlock it with balthazar faction and then your dervish will be able to buy it at every skill trader.

I believe either you're wrong about this, or Anet changed this behavior in a recent patch. According to the Balathazar rewards guy, skills that you unlock through him are available ONLY to your PvP chars and to Heros. Not to PvE chars.

I really hope somebody finds this skill on an early- or mid-game boss and reports its location. I think Nightfall took a huge step backward by locking players away from all the choice *basic* skills until they reach the end-game storyline missions.

[Patccmoi]

I believe either you're wrong about this, or Anet changed this behavior in a recent patch. According to the Balathazar rewards guy, skills that you unlock through him are available ONLY to your PvP chars and to Heros. Not to PvE chars.

I really hope somebody finds this skill on an early- or mid-game boss and reports its location. I think Nightfall took a huge step backward by locking players away from all the choice *basic* skills until they reach the end-game storyline missions.

Hrm, he's actually right or you misunderstand what he said.

For example, i have about 90% of Dervish skills unlocked on PvP char. On my PvE Dervish, the first skill trainer gives me access to nearly all skills.

The skills you buy with faction are available directly only to PvP chars, not PvE. But the skill trainers allow you to buy ANY unlocked skill on your account.

So if you unlock it with 1k faction at Priest of Balthazar, the first skill trainer will be selling Conviction. You still have to buy it.

[shaktiboi]

Hrm, he's actually right or you misunderstand what he said.

For example, i have about 90% of Dervish skills unlocked on PvP char. On my PvE Dervish, the first skill trainer gives me access to nearly all skills.

The skills you buy with faction are available directly only to PvP chars, not PvE. But the skill trainers allow you to buy ANY unlocked skill on your account.

So if you unlock it with 1k faction at Priest of Balthazar, the first skill trainer will be selling Conviction. You still have to buy it.

A-ha! Thanks for the clarification :grin:

Now for the $64,000 question: for us folks who tend to stay away from PvP, what's the quickest way to generate Balthazar faction? I can take in almost any Prophecies or Factions class-combo loaded for bear with all the goodies. Any specific suggestions?

[shaktiboi]

Oh and BTW I finally got that other wiki to stay alive long enough to cough up all the Dervish boss descriptions, and Conviction is not on any boss according to the current data.

[Stryphe]

You're in luck this weekend.

Double Faction in Arenas 7 November 2006
This weekend, you will be able to earn double Balthazar Faction in Random and Team Arenas, plus you'll score double Faction for each match won and for flawless victories, too. This double-up on Faction rewards begins at Noon PST on Friday, November 10, and ends at 11:59 p.m, PST on Sunday, November 12.

Straight from the Guild Wars website. So go grind it up in the arenas this weekend.

[Patccmoi]

The easiest way to generate quick faction is to go in the Zaishen Arena. You have a limit there (something like 2-3k faction/day) but to get 1 skill it's fine.

Since you're PvE, i suggest picking a team like Obsidian Flame spike and bring a Ranger Hero pure interrupt and a Dom Hero with things like Power Spike, Backfire, etc. and a Monk Hero with Infuse Health. Then bring your Dervish and cut them down, they will never be able to do anything to you as all their spike attempt will screw up and pretty much all they have left after is wards and stone daggers.

You gain 40 faction per kill, 50 for the win and 50 for the flawless (you will have it!) so it's 260 faction per game. Do that 4 times and you can unlock (twice this weekend if the double faction applies to Zaishen Arena, dunno though)

[shaktiboi]

The easiest way to generate quick faction is to go in the Zaishen Arena. You have a limit there (something like 2-3k faction/day) but to get 1 skill it's fine.

Since you're PvE, i suggest picking a team like Obsidian Flame spike and bring a Ranger Hero pure interrupt and a Dom Hero with things like Power Spike, Backfire, etc. and a Monk Hero with Infuse Health. Then bring your Dervish and cut them down, they will never be able to do anything to you as all their spike attempt will screw up and pretty much all they have left after is wards and stone daggers.

You gain 40 faction per kill, 50 for the win and 50 for the flawless (you will have it!) so it's 260 faction per game. Do that 4 times and you can unlock (twice this weekend if the double faction applies to Zaishen Arena, dunno though)


Perfect! Thanks again for the great advice, Pat :flowers:

[Doyle]

But just to confirm, if I buy it on a PvE character from a skills guy deep in the game, it will not be available to other chars for purchase from early skill vendors, correct?

[Patccmoi]

But just to confirm, if I buy it on a PvE character from a skills guy deep in the game, it will not be available to other chars for purchase from early skill vendors, correct?

yes it will. If you buy it, you unlock it. As long as a skill is unlocked, you can buy it from any vendor (well it's still chapter-related, the guy in Lion's Arch won't sell it and neither will the skill trader in your GH which is apparently Prophecies only).

The reason why they made it this way is that for pure PvE people, it gives them a progression in the game as they get new skills as they go on, find new outposts, etc. Once you did the work to unlock the skill though it's available to others.

And it's also to prevent unlocking everything with a level 5 character. Because think about it, if they made all non-elite skills available at first trader you could simply create a char, get to level 5 really quickly and buy 5 skills, delete it and create another. You'd unlock all non-elites in no time.

[ccrazool]

Doyle:

Skill vendors in Kamadan sell all skills currently unlocked on your account, plus the basic skills they're set for.

I reached the end part of Desolation with my necro, went through the classes, bought key skills from the vendor and this unlocked them on my account. Then I logged my lvl 4 nub dervish, went to Kamadan, and bought all of the tasty endgame nonelites that I unlocked with my necro.

[Doyle]

Well, conviction must be waaaay deep. I'm at the bone palace and still haven't seen it...

[shaktiboi]

Um. Wow. Conviction was worth the hassle even though I'm not much of a PvPer these days. I hadn't even really tried PvP in GW except for RA literally a few times way back in Prophecies.

I found using my Dervish vs that Obsidian mage team in Zaishen wasn't working that well for me, because: A) my dervish is only level 13, and B) I don't have the mesmer hero yet.

So just for grins I brought my 'sin to RA and went at it using the GPS, DB, Moeb, CS, (rez), Conviction, Vital Boon, SoPL build (minus the Conviction at this point). Gained the first 1000 very quickly. After I added Conviction to my build I went back to RA and managed to rack up another 6000 points in about 1 hour. Even managed a 9-win streak and came real close on the 10th.

I have strong convictions about Conviction at this point. Can't wait to try it out on my dervish now.

Now my stupid noob PvP question of the day is whether I have to spend some Balth faction before I hit 10,000? Does it stop accruing like the Kurzik and Luxon faction did at 10,000?

[Patccmoi]

Um. Wow. Conviction was worth the hassle even though I'm not much of a PvPer these days. I hadn't even really tried PvP in GW except for RA literally a few times way back in Prophecies.

I found using my Dervish vs that Obsidian mage team in Zaishen wasn't working that well for me, because: A) my dervish is only level 13, and B) I don't have the mesmer hero yet.

So just for grins I brought my 'sin to RA and went at it using the GPS, DB, Moeb, CS, (rez), Conviction, Vital Boon, SoPL build (minus the Conviction at this point). Gained the first 1000 very quickly. After I added Conviction to my build I went back to RA and managed to rack up another 6000 points in about 1 hour. Even managed a 9-win streak and came real close on the 10th.

I have strong convictions about Conviction at this point. Can't wait to try it out on my dervish now.

Now my stupid noob PvP question of the day is whether I have to spend some Balth faction before I hit 10,000? Does it stop accruing like the Kurzik and Luxon faction did at 10,000?

Lol, go in RA (or any PvP zone really) and talk to a Priest of Balthazar. There you can unlock tons of stuff (insignas, runes, skills, etc.). If you don't plan to PvP, the only useful thing for you is non-elite skills so they're accessible to any vendor, the rest is really for PvP chars. If you don't spend them before you hit 10k you'll stop gaining any ya.

[Doyle]

The easiest way to generate quick faction is to go in the Zaishen Arena. You have a limit there (something like 2-3k faction/day) but to get 1 skill it's fine.

Since you're PvE, i suggest picking a team like Obsidian Flame spike and bring a Ranger Hero pure interrupt and a Dom Hero with things like Power Spike, Backfire, etc. and a Monk Hero with Infuse Health. Then bring your Dervish and cut them down, they will never be able to do anything to you as all their spike attempt will screw up and pretty much all they have left after is wards and stone daggers.

You gain 40 faction per kill, 50 for the win and 50 for the flawless (you will have it!) so it's 260 faction per game. Do that 4 times and you can unlock (twice this weekend if the double faction applies to Zaishen Arena, dunno though)

I took Margrid and Jin and Dunky along with my Mesmer and we had no trouble at all shutting those guys down. I already had a few hundred faction so in no time at all I was unlocking conviction and was in business!

Thanks for the tip!

[Cruel Angel]

This is something that started to bug me when I started playing Nightfall. Going through half the game or more trying to find a certain skill (Conviction to be specific) to use only to find out you can't get it until maybe the last 10-20% of the game? Or, in order to get it sooner you have to PvP to unlock it.. and then turn around and buy it again for your PvE char?

Maybe it's off-topic but whats the point in only offering a handful of skills at each trainer? Either need to go back to getting a good portion of the skills for free (like in Prophecies) or offer them all at all skill trainers throughout the game. You still have to have enough skill points and money to buy them, so I don't see the point in not offering them.

[shaktiboi]

This is something that started to bug me when I started playing Nightfall. Going through half the game or more trying to find a certain skill (Conviction to be specific) to use only to find out you can't get it until maybe the last 10-20% of the game? Or, in order to get it sooner you have to PvP to unlock it.. and then turn around and buy it again for your PvE char?

Maybe it's off-topic but whats the point in only offering a handful of skills at each trainer? Either need to go back to getting a good portion of the skills for free (like in Prophecies) or offer them all at all skill trainers throughout the game. You still have to have enough skill points and money to buy them, so I don't see the point in not offering them.

I feel the same way, but perhaps this is meant to be an incentive to try out PvP? Or perhaps to entice even PvEer's to spend an extra $40 to buy the PvP packs? Anyway, I found out that PvP is fun in small doses, if a bit chaotic at times. Your performance in RA seems to be mostly tied to luck of the draw regarding the group you end up.

Once I figure out a good repeatable Zaishen arena tactic, it's really just another kind of PvE to go farm 2000 Balthazar a day--that's two standard skills per day you can unlock, which isn't so bad, really.

[Cruel Angel]

I feel the same way, but perhaps this is meant to be an incentive to try out PvP? Or perhaps to entice even PvEer's to spend an extra $40 to buy the PvP packs? Anyway, I found out that PvP is fun in small doses, if a bit chaotic at times. Your performance in RA seems to be mostly tied to luck of the draw regarding the group you end up.

Once I figure out a good repeatable Zaishen arena tactic, it's really just another kind of PvE to go farm 2000 Balthazar a day--that's two standard skills per day you can unlock, which isn't so bad, really.

I don't know. I don't mind PvP sometimes and will try to get into the higher tiers of it eventually, but I'd rather they were separate where the skill acquisition was concerned. By sheer luck I had a little over 3k Balthazar faction saved up from my numerous forays into Alliance Battles and used that to buy Conviction and a couple of other skills I was looking for but hadn't shown up by the time I'd gotten well into Vabbi. The thing is, I then had to turn around and spend skill points and gold to get them again. Kinda sucks having to buy a skill twice just to use it for the better part of the storyline. If you're not going to give them to me for completing quests like in Prophecies then at least let me decide what I want, out of a list of all non-elites, if I have to use my gold to pay for it.

[takplayer]

I don't know. I don't mind PvP sometimes and will try to get into the higher tiers of it eventually, but I'd rather they were separate where the skill acquisition was concerned. By sheer luck I had a little over 3k Balthazar faction saved up from my numerous forays into Alliance Battles and used that to buy Conviction and a couple of other skills I was looking for but hadn't shown up by the time I'd gotten well into Vabbi. The thing is, I then had to turn around and spend skill points and gold to get them again. Kinda sucks having to buy a skill twice just to use it for the better part of the storyline. If you're not going to give them to me for completing quests like in Prophecies then at least let me decide what I want, out of a list of all non-elites, if I have to use my gold to pay for it.

Yeah, or you could just play the game. Looking at Prophecies, there were skills that you couldn't get until Copperhammer Mines or farther - I'd say that, percentage wise, would be where you get Conviction. Yet no one complained about it in Prophecies? Maybe the easy unlocking in Factions spoiled some of us?

[shaktiboi]

Lol, go in RA (or any PvP zone really) and talk to a Priest of Balthazar. There you can unlock tons of stuff (insignas, runes, skills, etc.). If you don't plan to PvP, the only useful thing for you is non-elite skills so they're accessible to any vendor, the rest is really for PvP chars. If you don't spend them before you hit 10k you'll stop gaining any ya.

Hee, ya. Told you I was a noob regarding GW PvP. You're right, it's a cakewalk with a level 20 PvP derv and the heros you listed (I bought the mes hero with some of my faction from yesterday). Easy way to grind a fast 2k faction per day, which is good for two skills a day or other nice PvP things.

[shaktiboi]

Yeah, or you could just play the game. Looking at Prophecies, there were skills that you couldn't get until Copperhammer Mines or farther - I'd say that, percentage wise, would be where you get Conviction. Yet no one complained about it in Prophecies? Maybe the easy unlocking in Factions spoiled some of us?

Well, one diff between Prophecies and Factions was that as soon as you hit the mainland in Factions, you were thrown into the fire against near end-game level encounters. In Prophecies, things slowly ramped up until the very end. Nightfall seems to follow a pattern similar to Factions, in that you are level 14-16 by the time you hit the mainland, and your first mainland henchies are level 20 and so are the mobs right away.

Because the Nigthfall encounters follow a mostly end-game pattern similar to Factions, it doesn't make sense that they make you wait so long for some of the *standard* skills. This is why I don't feel bad grabbing some key skills lon g before they would normally be available to me. I hope Anet doesn't make the same design choice in Chapter 4.

That said, the word is that once you unlock the skill trainer NPC in the Command Post, it carries a lot of the skills you wouldn't otherwise find till near the end of the mission arc. (This contradicts what's reported on that other wiki, but I'm still a few missions away from there so can't confirm or deny.)

[Nanashi]

I believe either you're wrong about this, or Anet changed this behavior in a recent patch. According to the Balathazar rewards guy, skills that you unlock through him are available ONLY to your PvP chars and to Heros. Not to PvE chars.

I really hope somebody finds this skill on an early- or mid-game boss and reports its location. I think Nightfall took a huge step backward by locking players away from all the choice *basic* skills until they reach the end-game storyline missions.

Conviction is not endgame. It's a skill you can easily obtain after completing the Command Post. Which if you are Elonian, it's 4th mission in. Not hard at all in my opinion.

[Jelloblimp]

(...)
That said, the word is that once you unlock the skill trainer NPC in the Command Post, it carries a lot of the skills you wouldn't otherwise find till near the end of the mission arc. (This contradicts what's reported on that other wiki, but I'm still a few missions away from there so can't confirm or deny.)
Nope no conviction on that skill-npc or any other skills that I havent seen in the citys I have visited.

Conviction is not endgame. It's a skill you can easily obtain after completing the Command Post. Which if you are Elonian, it's 4th mission in. Not hard at all in my opinion.
WHERE can you obtain it exacly?

[Cruel Angel]

Yeah, or you could just play the game. Looking at Prophecies, there were skills that you couldn't get until Copperhammer Mines or farther - I'd say that, percentage wise, would be where you get Conviction. Yet no one complained about it in Prophecies? Maybe the easy unlocking in Factions spoiled some of us?

Yea, but maybe in Prophecies they gave me skills for free for doing quests? Maybe it's just me but if I'm given skills for free I'm not likely to complain, but when it's skills I have to buy from a Trainer I would like it to be something that fits my playstyle.


Conviction is not endgame. It's a skill you can easily obtain after completing the Command Post. Which if you are Elonian, it's 4th mission in. Not hard at all in my opinion.

Funny thing, I checked him and half a dozen other skill trainers throughout Elona all the way up to the Baazar in Vabbi before finally breaking down and unlocking it with what little Balathazar faction I had.

Getting a little sick of people trying to invalidate my posts with half-arse evidence on this subject after I spent a good long while looking for the skill.

[Doyle]

Getting a little sick of people trying to invalidate my posts with half-arse evidence on this subject after I spent a good long while looking for the skill.

Agreed. I checked all the way up to Bone Palace. So unless there's a special quest you have to do to unlock it, I call shenanigans.

[Silverwyng]

guys, let's just get a few balthazar faction, unlock it and get it from the skill merchant. coz i know i wanna try out what most people here want to [so many familiar faces from the sin threads lol]. :grin:

[takplayer]

Well, one diff between Prophecies and Factions was that as soon as you hit the mainland in Factions, you were thrown into the fire against near end-game level encounters. In Prophecies, things slowly ramped up until the very end. Nightfall seems to follow a pattern similar to Factions, in that you are level 14-16 by the time you hit the mainland, and your first mainland henchies are level 20 and so are the mobs right away.

Because the Nigthfall encounters follow a mostly end-game pattern similar to Factions, it doesn't make sense that they make you wait so long for some of the *standard* skills. This is why I don't feel bad grabbing some key skills lon g before they would normally be available to me. I hope Anet doesn't make the same design choice in Chapter 4.

That said, the word is that once you unlock the skill trainer NPC in the Command Post, it carries a lot of the skills you wouldn't otherwise find till near the end of the mission arc. (This contradicts what's reported on that other wiki, but I'm still a few missions away from there so can't confirm or deny.)

Yes, but I would argue that Kouran in Elona is much, much easier than the city in Factions. Yes they are level 20 enemies, but the bugs and the plants don't do nearly as much damage as to be life threatening (assuming max level armor). I find that Nightfall has made me want to get my characters through the game - more rewards later on in the game. In Factions, there was no reason (for someone only concerned about skill capping) to go past Unwaking Waters. Nightfall keeps a skill capper busy through the entire story arc.

[Asmodeus Of Ascalon]

Conviction is not endgame. It's a skill you can easily obtain after completing the Command Post. Which if you are Elonian, it's 4th mission in. Not hard at all in my opinion.

I have an Elonian Character and don't see that skill either.
Also I don't see Victorious Sweep which is a base skill.

After some research, I found out that some skills are already unlocked if you baught a certain version of Nightfall.

The Collectors Edition of Nightfall for example had several more base skills unlocked then the standard edition, hence some of you are able to buy it streight away and others aren't.

[shaktiboi]

I have an Elonian Character and don't see that skill either.
Also I don't see Victorious Sweep which is a base skill.

After some research, I found out that some skills are already unlocked if you baught a certain version of Nightfall.

The Collectors Edition of Nightfall for example had several more base skills unlocked then the standard edition, hence some of you are able to buy it streight away and others aren't.

Wow, if that's true that's a huge goof on the part of Anet. Either for creating that disparity in the first place, or at least by not publicizing that key different to promote the sales of more copies of the CE.

[Doyle]

Hmm... I have both CE and SE. I know it's not on my SE version (my mesmer who has already finished the game is on that account), but I'll have to check on my CE account.


guys, let's just get a few balthazar faction, unlock it and get it from the skill merchant. coz i know i wanna try out what most people here want to [so many familiar faces from the sin threads lol]. :grin:

I've done that and yes, it rocks (me and my henchies -- not heroes -- went and kicked Jin, the Purifier all around Kaineng. He was a tough kill before). My point is why should I have to do that when others apparently don't?

Edit: Sorry, not Jin -- it was that Petal ele guy right outside the marketplace.

[Fae]

I have an Elonian Character and don't see that skill either.
Also I don't see Victorious Sweep which is a base skill.

After some research, I found out that some skills are already unlocked if you baught a certain version of Nightfall.

The Collectors Edition of Nightfall for example had several more base skills unlocked then the standard edition, hence some of you are able to buy it streight away and others aren't.

Afraid this isn't true. I have a CE account and my dervish had to hike a loooong way to get that skill.

[Cruel Angel]

Afraid this isn't true. I have a CE account and my dervish had to hike a loooong way to get that skill.

Agreed. I have the CE and could not get Conviction (or Extend Enchantments and Victorious Sweep) until unlocking them with Balthazar faction. So other than the normal goodies that come with it, the CE doesn't offer any sort of skill advantage.

[Asmodeus Of Ascalon]

Agreed. I have the CE and could not get Conviction (or Extend Enchantments and Victorious Sweep) until unlocking them with Balthazar faction. So other than the normal goodies that come with it, the CE doesn't offer any sort of skill advantage.

Thank you for clearing that up. I only got the SE so its good to know that the CE didn't get extra skills unlocked.

This was only a thought on my behalf as I know that CE get some extra stuff so I just assumed on that part as it must have a reason that some people had those skills.


The other thing I can think of is that if one baught the pre-order Version one might get some extra skills through entering the pre-order key.

Another reason I thought of was that the people that might played the NF Preview Event might unlocked incidentely more skills upfront when playing the PvP part and thus had them available in game.

So those peps still had to unlock them skills and just were able to buy them from the skill collector once NF was released.

Anybody have any additional thoughts why one would have skills unlocked which others have not, if and only if its true that those peps have not unlocked them in PvP and just didn't tell us.. :)

[Nanashi]

Funny thing, I checked him and half a dozen other skill trainers throughout Elona all the way up to the Baazar in Vabbi before finally breaking down and unlocking it with what little Balathazar faction I had.

Getting a little sick of people trying to invalidate my posts with half-arse evidence on this subject after I spent a good long while looking for the skill.

Look, I haven't unlocked conviction via pvp. It's quite easy. When you get to Sunspear Sanctuary you are given a quest called the Command Post. This quest requires you to have Dunkuro since the three/four quests that are involved needh im to do. Now once you have it all set, when you zone out into the Command Post you take Dun's quests one at a time. Complete them and then goto SS (Sunspear Sanctuary) and talk to the necro gal. When that's done, you zone back out to Command Post and talk to Dunkuro again. You have to do this as I said, three or four times.

When you complete the required quests you finish the Command Post and then talk to the necro once more to complete. What happens is the next time you zone into the Command Post you are given a crap load of NPCs such as 15k Elite Sunspear armor, material traders, rare material traders, hero skills, skills trainers, profession changer, merchant, rune trader, dye trader, etc.

The skills trainer there has Conviction listed. As I said, I have not unlocked Conviction via PVP.

[Tzimovo]

I'd rather suspect that those peeps hat have the skill unlocked unlocked and used it in one of the two beta events.
The skills you unlocked there are still unlocked when you buy NF (regardless wether it is CE or SE).

[Nanashi]

Well I barely played the Derv for PVP and NPE so I didn't unlock them there either.

There is a high possibility I could be wrong about Command Post. Nai posted a build for the sin class and I wanted to trest it out. I remember going back, from the Gates Of Madness, to another outpsot past the destolation wastes. But I remembe returning to the Command Post to purchase certain dervish skills. So if I am wrong, I am greatly sorry and I wasn't paying attention. I am willing to take fault but I have a strong feeling Conviction can be found off the skills trainer in the Command Post.

[Longasc]

Conviction is just one example. Victorious Sweep is another, you get it in the Throne of Secrets, very last area of the game.

The skill distribution in Nightfall is very odd!

Almost essential skills are placed in the final areas.

OK, maybe they followed the pattern "good skills -> must be available in a late game area", but you see what happened, people are looking so hard for some skills and do not find them that they unlock them by faction.

Nothing wrong with that, I unlock skills that I "must have" during the preview events. Is this an hidden incentive for people to PvP so that they can buy their PvE skills?


Paragon and Dervish skills that are really important are placed so late in the storyline, this is like making Orison of Healing available on Fire Island.

[Nanashi]

Well what I could of gotten mixed up with was the fact that unlocking one skill via trainers unlocks it anywhere. So my derv got to command post and got it there. hmmmm

[Cambeul]

I think about unlocking the NPCs in the command post, you get them all when you hit level 20 I believe. My Derv has done little questing there, but I have capped about 8 elites. And now all my NPC's are unlocked.

[BrotherGrimm]

After you unlock skills via PvP, the skills are only available at trainers in the chapter the skills are associated with.

[shaktiboi]

I can absolutely confirm that Conviction is not unlocked on the NPCs in the Command Post. (BTW, The Skill Trainer, Hero Skills, and Profession Changer are unlocked after the 2nd quest in the "Command Post" series.)

I double-checked with a character on my wife's account. The skills you see on the Command Post trainer are exactly the same set of skills available on the trainer in Yohlon Haven.

FWIW, I just bought the Nightfall PvP upgrade pack and that unlocked everything on my account. I can now purchase all the non-elite skills as needed from any skill trainer in Elona, and my heros have access to all NF skills including the elites! Plus, of course, I have access to all the NF skills in PvP.

I PvP so infrequently as to make grinding Balth faction for skill unlocks untenable. I'd rather use my Balth faction for unlocking items. Being able to use superior rune X or weapon/shield/armor mod X is worth much more to me in PvP.

[Selverein]

There's just one thing I hear a lot of times and I'm not sure I entirely agree with...

"Victorious Sweep is a basic skill"

I dunno. It does not show at lower SM levels, but once it gets high enough, you'll notice this skill is amongst the most powerful ones bonus-damage-wise. Add some conditional healing and you've got a pretty useful skill. I'd much rather use this than Pious Assault. (Unless my build was based on self-stripping)

In any case, I do agree that this skill can only be acquired until too late in the game. Same for Conviction and a few others. I really think most skills should be available around mid-campaign.

[Seeker of Something]

I really think most skills should be available around mid-campaign.

And that I'm going to agree with. Making skills unavailable to PvE players until the end of the game is a curious decision. A "Thanks for playing, have a new toy now that you don't have a use for it ... why are you upset?" sort of move. At least the faction unlock is a viable workaround.

[Nanashi]

And that I'm going to agree with. Making skills unavailable to PvE players until the end of the game is a curious decision. A "Thanks for playing, have a new toy now that you don't have a use for it ... why are you upset?" sort of move. At least the faction unlock is a viable workaround.

Well according to the stereo type there's not much content in comparison to other big MMOs out there. So Anet probably thinks that when we're all done with PVE we go straight to PVP. Statistics show that they are right in a sense. GW's PVP is one of the best and quite a large population of gamers we see running around do actually play PVP

So speaking from Anet's point of view, they may think we take these skills straight to PVP -shrugs-

Do I agree with what they did? Meh, I think it's a little sneaky or mismanaged. Probably the later. But the benefit is once you unlock those skills at the later game, other characters of your profession on your account will obtain those skills much earlier... I think. That's why my derv was able to get Conviction from Command Post.

[Doyle]

Looks like (barring any PvP or previous character unlock) that Conviction first becomes available at the skill trainer at the Mouth of Torment, the Nightfall equivalent of Ember Light Camp.

[Godlike Satan]

The really good skills should only be available towards the end of game. If you want something early on you must unlock with faction.

Luckily I unlocked everything I needed for my AoE bomb dervish during the pvp Beta and got the easiest 12 gladiator pts I ever got pvping. Faction does have it's uses for pver's :wink: