PDA

View Full Version : The Machine Gon Build



Val Roize Lionheart
06-11-2006, 06:21
Greetings !!!

After testing various Secondary Professions in the Isle of the Nameless,
Ranger, Necro, Monk etc. I realize they have much problems regarding energy management.

Taking a closer look at Paragon’s abilities are as follows:
Armor: 80 (Like Warrior’s Armor)
Attack Range: Short Bow Range (Like Rangers)
Energy: 38 (At 2 pips)

Comment:
Paragon/Warriors has a possible potential to a good running Build.

But what I am looking at right now is a Range Attacker with a High Armor Level and has the ability to inflict Burning on foes.
Thus, I came up with this build I call the “Machine Gon Build”

Paragon/Warrior

Attributes:
16 Spear Mastery
15 Leadership

Skills:
Frenzy
Mighty Throw
Barbed Spear
Blazing Spear
Unblockable Throw
Anthem of Flames
Leader’s Comfort
Signet of Return

I know there’s a pure Paragon build using Aggressive Refrain instead of Frenzy.

Aggressive Refrain has 25% attack speed boost for 25 Sec.
Frenzy has +33% attack speed boost for 8 Sec.

Frenzy has a setback of taking 2x the damage but Enemies attack and stick like glue to the monks and casters more frequently so, this does not really affect my build so much.

I have tried and tested both Aggresive Refrain and Frenzy. But Frenzy is obviously much much faster.. that’s why I called it: The Machine Gon Build.

How fast is this build???

Try this:
1) Go to the Isle of the nameless.

2) Kill the first 4 enemies including
a) One 100 AL enemy,
b) Two 60AL enemies,
c) One 80AL enemy.

I killed all 4 enemies before any of them are resurrected.
~Commander Hellspear

Duncan Dragoon
06-11-2006, 06:58
Mighty Throw and Unblockable Throw have an activation time of 3 seconds, not condusive to the fast attack nature of your build. This skillset also doesn't have an elite. What I would do is take out Frenzy and Mighty Throw and Unblockable Throw, and put in Soldier's Fury and "They're on Fire!", and Harrier's Toss or Distrupting Throw. so you get a 33% attack rate ALL the time without taking double damage and further increase your attack rate with 1/2 second Spear Skills. Soldier's Fury is by far the best IAS in the game. To get Soldier's Fury, do the Gates of Desolation mission and kill "Churkeh the Defiant" when he comes to you.

waywrong
06-11-2006, 06:58
You have no elite + mighty throw, instead of cruel spear. Is there a particular reason to this? As far as IAS goes, I'd go with Watch Yourself + Soldier's Stance. With a decent Tactics, you can keep both up indefinitely. I find it better than Soldier's Fury because there isn't an activation time that cuts into attacking time. Plus you won't be boned if any mob decides to turn on you.

Duncan Dragoon
06-11-2006, 07:13
You also have to invest in tactics then :). Soldier's Fury requires 1 second of activation time and lasts about 25-30 seconds, with a 33% faster attack rate and NO drawbacks besides having to have a shout on you. But "They're on Fire!" is a 20 second, 20 recharge shout that can be kept up indefinetly and with blazing spear and anthem of flame, you'll get the 35% dmg reduction a lot. I'd say this compliments the build far better than having to stretch for tactics. Soldier's Stance is also intensive on energy as it has to be renewed every ten seconds. Soldier's Fury is in the Leadership line with the same drawback, and lasts three times longer, I'd say it's three times better.

So here's what I'd run:

Paragon/Any

Attributes:
16 Spear Mastery
15 Leadership

Skills:
Soldier's Fury
Barbed Spear
Harrier's Toss(Or Disrupting Throw)
Blazing Spear
"They're on Fire!"
Anthem of Flames
Leader’s Comfort
Signet of Return

waywrong
06-11-2006, 07:49
You're right about that, I didn't realize that Soldier's Fury lasted that long.

The reason I mentioned Soldier's Stance, is because if he can afford to spend however much energy he is expending keeping up Frenzy, he should be able to upkeep Soldier's Stance. And Watch Yourself is pretty much giving him back free energy, along with increasing the unconditional survivability of his entire party.

Duncan Dragoon
06-11-2006, 08:34
You're right as well. 20 more armor is ceartantly better than a conditional 44% dmg reduction from burning, however, my build even has some energy problems, and Soldier's Stance every 10 seconds is heavily draining. And you'd have to have at least 10 tactics to make good use of it, and that means less damage and less healing from Leadership and Spear Mastery. However, the 4-5 energy from "Watch Yourself!" could offset Soldier's Stances' nasty energy drain. They are roughly equivalent IMO, although I can't test it as I don't have Soldier's Stance.

EDIT: Also, Soldier's Fury is an echo, and as such cannot be removed by Wild Blow, Wild Strike, and Wild Throw, like Soldier's Stance can.

Ashin
06-11-2006, 08:46
One way I found to achieve e-mgt in these builds is to go Command and use some adrenal chants/shouts instead of energy based ones. For example every time I use go for their eyes I essentially get 6 energy at the cost of 4 adrenaline.. if you balance your skillbar correctly you can achieve a nice equilibrium between adrenaline and energy, and I believe this is a unique aspect of this class.

Aiiane
06-11-2006, 12:48
You're right as well. 20 more armor is ceartantly better than a conditional 44% dmg reduction from burning

Yes and no. The +AL is more constant if the source of damage is always physical, but AL does nothing vs. most mesmer, necro, or even Assassin damage. In addition, 20 armor is approximately 25-30% damage reduction, if I remember correctly.

Val Roize Lionheart
06-11-2006, 14:16
Ty all for the replies...
I'll still continue the tests for this Build.

BTW, While Frenzy is up, Mighty Throw and Unblockable Throw's 3 Second activation time is also affected.. at least by approximation the 3 second time is now around 2 seconds only as I observe and tested it in the Isle of the Nameless (That is where I tests "Nukes" ....LOL)

Therefore I confirm Frenzy and other Attack Speed Buffs affect the activation times of attack skills.

And the test continues....

Hhmmm.. gotta cap Soldier's Fury... but I just finished the "Building the Base" mission... (and Yes, I'm a Level 20 Paragon for those who might ask)

Off Topic:
Is the Elite Skill Soldier's Fury still very far from here... and I'm just a General as of now... should I reach Castellan to be able to get that Elite to be available for me?

TYVM to all who stopped, read and replied :smiley:
~Commander Hellspear


One way I found to achieve e-mgt in these builds is to go Command and use some adrenal chants/shouts instead of energy based ones. For example every time I use go for their eyes I essentially get 6 energy at the cost of 4 adrenaline.. if you balance your skillbar correctly you can achieve a nice equilibrium between adrenaline and energy, and I believe this is a unique aspect of this class.

Energy Management wise:

Would you agree on the original build?
Even If I have no points in Command.

Paragon/Warrior

Attributes:
16 Spear Mastery
15 Leadership

Skills:
Frenzy (5 energy for 8 seconds)
Mighty Throw
Barbed Spear
Blazing Spear
Unblockable Throw
Anthem of Flames (5 Energy for 10 seconds)
Leader’s Comfort
Signet of Return

That's Chaining skills actually.

The only thing lacking right now is an Elite skill "Soldier's Fury" then gonna switch back to Monk secondary prof. for better healing.

~Commander Hellspear

waywrong
06-11-2006, 14:27
Yes and no. The +AL is more constant if the source of damage is always physical, but AL does nothing vs. most mesmer, necro, or even Assassin damage. In addition, 20 armor is approximately 25-30% damage reduction, if I remember correctly.

Unless you're partied with an Elementalist who liberally uses Mark of Rodgort, and other AE spells that set multiple foes on fire at the same time, I've found that it's hard to get "They're On Fire!" to do that much damage reduction against multiple foes. Even with all the fire setting abilities that Paragons can provide to an entire group of people with Anthem of Flame, most people are used to focus firing or the "omgz kill the monk then casters!" method of killing things thus the burning isn't really spread out as liberally. Blazing Finale is hard to control because you need to either time your chant/shout just right, or make sure you hit someone with Blazing Finale right before their shout expires if they are surrounded.

Even while I was trying to micro manage all the fire setting, with Blazing Spear, Anthem of Flame, etc, I can get 2 or 3 foes on fire at once, for at most 3 seconds, which may, or may not be the time they are about to explode on their spike. You really can't control where all your other party members are going to set fire to with Anthem, much less henchmen. I find it much easier to just upkeep Watch Yourself and have at it.

Under perfect conditions, or with a competent elementalist, yes, "They're On Fire!" is definitely the way to go. But as I've experienced (granted, I've mostly been pugging, because not enough of my guildies are far enough along in NF) setting the right amount of people on fire for enough damage reduction on TOF to kick in to beat Watch Yourself is kind of hard. I'm taking the lazy way out and just sticking Watch Yourself on everyone for the unconditional damage mitigation and hope my monk heals through whatever the necros and mesmers are pumping out.

EDIT: Soldier's Fury is capped at the Gates of Desolation mission, so yes, you have bit further to go.

Aiiane
06-11-2006, 14:29
The highest you will need to get for Sunspear rank is General (rank 7) - anything after that is optional, and does not affect gameplay.

Fownkaymownkay
06-11-2006, 14:34
Natural Temper > Frenzy. Just keep a shout like Watch Yourself! on, and you are good to go.

waywrong
06-11-2006, 15:45
As for the OP, I believe your original build is pretty good for where you are in the game. I'd still prefer Cruel Spear to Mighty Throw though, and Cruel Spear is easily cappable from where you are, in Arjok Ward

Duncan Dragoon
06-11-2006, 21:48
Sorry, Soldier's Fury is capped in the Gates of Deslolation Mission from a boss called Chakeh the Lonely, not Churkeh the Defiant. Churkeh the Defiant has "It's just a flesh wound." and is in Alkali Pan.

Meh, Natural temper is good for adrenaline gain, but not for attacking faster which is the whole point of this build.

Val Roize Lionheart
07-11-2006, 02:21
The highest you will need to get for Sunspear rank is General (rank 7) - anything after that is optional, and does not affect gameplay.

Now, that's a relief...

Actually, I like the "Spear Commander" rank better than Spear General.. lol.. or I still have to change my name.. lol

TY all for the valuable infos and swift replies.
~Commander Hellspear :smiley:

Fownkaymownkay
07-11-2006, 15:36
Natural Temper + Aggresive Refrain?

THEN you are good to go, seeing as WY/GftE will charge BOTH of those up.

AMorganstern
07-11-2006, 22:24
Yes and no. The +AL is more constant if the source of damage is always physical, but AL does nothing vs. most mesmer, necro, or even Assassin damage. In addition, 20 armor is approximately 25-30% damage reduction, if I remember correctly.

While this is true, I think what he meant was that the 44% reduction was from "They're on Fire!" which only kicks in when they're Burning, which as a condition has a very, very low duration. Having that 20 AL constantly would, cumulatively, reduce more damage.

Palidore
08-11-2006, 08:07
On a somewhat related note, I love the names of all the P (/P) builds..

Para-medic
Machine-Gon
Para-Daggers
Pre-p-aragon

Very amusing :D

Mirage CrimsonBlade
08-11-2006, 17:55
You can cap soldiers fury before the Gates of desolation mission. Here's what I found in my exploring. You can actually run yourself all the way to Basalt Grotto as soon as you get into Vabbi. Simply exit west from Basalt Grotto then go south then west then north until you are parallel with the entrance to Bone Palace, when you see the wurm spoor (which you can't use yet) then go north and there is a Paragon boss which I'm 99% certain I capped Soldier's Fury from.

So as soon as you finish the Master of whispers of Magrid the sly mission to get past the fortress of Jahai you can run yourself to this cap and enjoy it for much longer in the game. If anyone requires a name of the boss or exact location in Joko's domain I could get a screenie.

TadaceAce
08-11-2006, 20:15
Go For the Eyes = good damage + good energy... a must.. spear of lightning is a good way to invest extra energy given by this build.

I've been waiting to try focused anger with mighty throw. Use it every attack with IAS to kill recharge.

Val Roize Lionheart
15-11-2006, 14:10
The Machine-Gon Build

This is the result of my final build after getting the Elite Skill Soldier’s Fury at the Mission in Desolation.

Attribute:
16 Spear Mastery (+ Sup Rune)
12 Leadership (+ Sup Rune)
All the rest in Command

Skills:
1) Soldier’s Fury [Elite] ( 30 Sec at 12 leadership )
2) “They’re on Fire” ( 20 Sec of +33% to activate “Soldier’s Fury”)
3) Lightning Spear
4) Barbed Spea r (+16 Sec of Bleeding)
5) Blazing Spear (+3 Sec of Burning)
6) Anthem of Flames (+3 sec of Burning) (also activates “Soldier’s Fury”)
7) Healing Breeze (emergency healing for me or my Heroes or Henchies)
8) Hard Rez (Rebirth or Signet of Return or Resurect Signet)

Well, the above Attributes and Skills are self-explanatory.
When I go Solo, I just switch Anthem of Flames with “Fall Back” for some additional healing while running skill, Switch Mending for Hard Rez.

The point of this build it to lay a very fast attack that causes Bleeding and Burning at the same time.

You can try how fast this is: (just for the challenge)
How fast can u kill the 4 practice targets?
PS. I used my Warrior and Ranger but my Paragon kills very much faster.

A) Goto the “Isle of the Nameless” and kill the first four enemies with 100AL, 80AL and 2 60AL. I can take them all down before even one of them is resurected.
B) You can also Kill the practice henchies that spams Healing Signet, you can actually rip through their healing…hehehe…

~Commander Hellspear

oles
15-11-2006, 15:44
Yes and no. The +AL is more constant if the source of damage is always physical, but AL does nothing vs. most mesmer, necro, or even Assassin damage. In addition, 20 armor is approximately 25-30% damage reduction, if I remember correctly.

Actually most different kinds of damage are reduced by Watch Yourself.
Be that Physical, Elemental, Chaos, Shadow, Light or Holy, all these damage types will be reduced, unless skills with armor-ignoring damage are used (eg life steal, smiting skills, shadow skills of necros, chaos skills of mesmers).

One thing you are right about is the damage reduction range. The exact number is 29.3% reduction.

Devo Tazmanius
15-11-2006, 16:11
Yes, again to reiterate the post of Amorganstan, even though the dmg reduction is 29.3%, the fact that this dmg reduction does not require the foe being on fire makes "Watch Yourself" a more CONSTANT dmg reducer than "They're on Fire".

However, including it in your build forces you to be a P/W where as "They're on Fire" allows you to be more flexible with your secondary. I guess, like most things in GW, it boils down to your personal preference.