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Psychotic
10-11-2006, 16:24
At the moment, it seems many people are quite skeptical of this skill. I was extremely skeptical of this skill at first. I finally took it out and tried it - and must say I was rather impressed. I didn't fully see how good this skill is, until i had an axe war go through a 4 attack adrenal spike, and by the end, hix executioners hit for less than 30 damage. Its easy to get this to last 6-7 seconds with a 20% enchant mod. It mitigates pressure, and can ruin some spikes. Downside? well, you have 3-4 seconds of it not being useful. The first few hits are very poorly effected by this skill, and of course, it can be stripped. Mixed with kiting, the 10 second recharge, i found, to be fairly negligable, and whenever 20% recharge kicks in, its recharged in 5. I personally think this could easily make it into the metagame. I ran it on a standard blessed escaper in place of RoF(well, that and I changed mend condition for dismiss condition, but thats a given nowadays anyway), and it worked perfectly. I consider it like this: if you take damage 5 times, you've blocked 5 + 10 + 15 + 20 + 25 damage, or 'healed' it, meaning you've 'healed' 75 damage(and 5 hits is VERY conservative). The more you get hit, the faster this skill's benefits skyrocket. If you get hit by skills that 'hit twice', say a ranger hits you with dual shot with ignite arrows and conjure, you've instantly stacked up this skill to block over 100 damage.
So how does this stack up to something like RoF? Well, both have conditions on their optimum. While RoF can be the equivalent of a 140 health heal(70 damage blocked, then returned to you), SoA can mitigate much more damage if you are getting pressured, or do much less if you aren't.
What is everyone's thoughts on this skill? Too conditional to be used? Recharge too big? Awesome skill that will be seen more?

Patccmoi
10-11-2006, 16:35
At the moment, it seems many people are quite skeptical of this skill. I was extremely skeptical of this skill at first. I finally took it out and tried it - and must say I was rather impressed. I didn't fully see how good this skill is, until i had an axe war go through a 4 attack adrenal spike, and by the end, hix executioners hit for less than 30 damage. Its easy to get this to last 6-7 seconds with a 20% enchant mod. It mitigates pressure, and can ruin some spikes. Downside? well, you have 3-4 seconds of it not being useful. The first few hits are very poorly effected by this skill, and of course, it can be stripped. Mixed with kiting, the 10 second recharge, i found, to be fairly negligable, and whenever 20% recharge kicks in, its recharged in 5. I personally think this could easily make it into the metagame. I ran it on a standard blessed escaper in place of RoF(well, that and I changed mend condition for dismiss condition, but thats a given nowadays anyway), and it worked perfectly. I consider it like this: if you take damage 5 times, you've blocked 5 + 10 + 15 + 20 + 25 damage, or 'healed' it, meaning you've 'healed' 75 damage(and 5 hits is VERY conservative). The more you get hit, the faster this skill's benefits skyrocket. If you get hit by skills that 'hit twice', say a ranger hits you with dual shot with ignite arrows and conjure, you've instantly stacked up this skill to block over 100 damage.
So how does this stack up to something like RoF? Well, both have conditions on their optimum. While RoF can be the equivalent of a 140 health heal(70 damage blocked, then returned to you), SoA can mitigate much more damage if you are getting pressured, or do much less if you aren't.
What is everyone's thoughts on this skill? Too conditional to be used? Recharge too big? Awesome skill that will be seen more?

I think it's an awesome skill, and it's getting used quite a bit by good guilds too.

Some really fun uses of it:

1) Life Bond. All the damage coming back to you 'activate' Shield of Absorption, making the damage reduction raise very fast.

2) For Dervish, Extend Enchantment. Having a 12-16s duration Shield of Absorption on your back is ridiculous. I use a Dervish Life Bonder (build here (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=429700)) that abuses both these points. I Life Bond others and use Extend Enchantment + Shield of Absorption on myself. After 8-9s, i'm basically immune to any damage. I received a 0 damage Obsidian Flame!

On a more general use, it's still very good damage mitigation. You can't compare it directly to a heal since it's prevention. And it's also a perfect counter to something like a Ranger Spike (since it comes into like 12-15 hits, the last hits will be reduced so much that they'll just do 0).

There's no real need to compare it to RoF, i mean RoF is basically a Prot Monk's base healing while SoA is a utility prot. It's not a 'required' skill, but if you have a slot and you want an extra prot skill it's one that will rarely be wasted imo.

Almas Darksoul
10-11-2006, 17:10
A lot of guilds are running 1, maybe 2 copies of it, and after trying it out myself, I can see why. It gives great prevention, but only in certain circumstances. For example, having your warriors charge into the lord area in a GvG match - usually firestorm/maelstrom from the bodyguard will trigger on them 2-3 times, they'll have an archer attacking them and maybe a warrior from the rival team trying to slow them down. This adds so quickly, giving a good few seconds of near invulnerability.

However, it needs to be used correctly; being used instead of PS/SB or RoF as an attempt to stop a spike can be fatal, because it only gets good after some time. It does help with afterspikes or long-duration adrenal spikes, though.

Also great for walking through acid traps in Imperial Isle.

ump
10-11-2006, 17:23
I use it all the time, but I still don't know exactly how it works. Could someone detail this skill? For example, does it reduce each hit by 5->10->15->20->25...?

cranialexodus
10-11-2006, 17:24
I think this skill is bugged. Damage reduction applies after prot spirit and you get -5 off the initial hit, with all that those 2 imply for 55 hp. You can actually i-monk and over 200hp with no healing except for the DF bonus when you enchant yourself, indefinitely.

13 divine favour + 14 prot is the breakpoint to maintain this 100% of the time with blessed aura and a 20% enchants mod. It resets reduction of course, but nevertheless... this thing is extremely powerful, and not just for farming.

This is probably my favourite nightfall non-elite, farming aside. As for farming, -0s are a lot more satisfying than -5s, even if I haven't yet found a particularly good use for it - and it's capable potentially of tanking an infinite number of mobs, same as pre-nerf spirit bond, without the requirement of many of them doing >60 damage.
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/646/gw017gs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^Example of use, e-denialing a monk boss with and SV->AV->SV chain so you can kill them solo. This would work fine with 33 hp, not 55 though.

GuildWarsGirlAmy
10-11-2006, 18:20
Yup, that's what i've been doing. Solo farming has never been easier. Just make sure you have about 125 health, and a 30% Blessed Aura on. You're good to go.
I'm guessing that they're going to nerf it to be like spirit bond, the max being 10 hits.

Chemical Ali
10-11-2006, 18:52
SoA is often my 8th pick. While I would never replace it with RoF, I somtimes use it instead of RoF when both are on my bar. The 1/4th second cast is the most important part.

Beta Sprite
10-11-2006, 19:12
Yup, that's what i've been doing. Solo farming has never been easier. Just make sure you have about 125 health, and a 30% Blessed Aura on. You're good to go.
I'm guessing that they're going to nerf it to be like spirit bond, the max being 10 hits.

Actually, I'm expecting more of a "(for up to XX damage reduction)" clause being added to it, not a hit-count.

cranialexodus
10-11-2006, 19:34
Actually, I'm expecting more of a "(for up to XX damage reduction)" clause being added to it, not a hit-count.

that wouldn't make any difference - it only needs to be -5, because it applies after PS. Putting an 'after 10 hits' on it would also be pretty daft, seeing as outside farming that's the only point of it anyway. Making it apply before PS, same as pretty much everything else out there, would not nerf it entirely either though though it would 'help' a lot - aataxe would wipe you out for example with 55 hp and no regen. Adding a 'they take at least 5 damage' would seem pretty reasonable to me and the most suitable nerf, not affecting other areas of the game as much.

Ragnarok-
10-11-2006, 20:22
SoA, I think, would be run best on an E/Mo, or Mo secondary. Its long recharge simply doesn't allow a staple skill for most monk builds, but it's abilities to withstand pressure/spikes is unbelievable. I often have trouble picking skills, but as a secondary monk, it deserves a slot in your bar. /Mo protection can point in prot for Extinguish and SoA. I say it's a great skill.

ump
10-11-2006, 20:44
SoA, I think, would be run best on an E/Mo, or Mo secondary. Its long recharge simply doesn't allow a staple skill for most monk builds, but it's abilities to withstand pressure/spikes is unbelievable. I often have trouble picking skills, but as a secondary monk, it deserves a slot in your bar. /Mo protection can point in prot for Extinguish and SoA. I say it's a great skill.
The 10 second recharge is quite reasonable to me on a monk primary. Even 3 to 5 seconds every 10 seconds is a great way to reduce adrenaline spikes which is the number one reason why I bring it.

Crovax Blackthorne
10-11-2006, 23:34
I love the SoA I-Monk. Too bad GvG is going to lead to its eventual Nerf. I guess I'll go farm as many Imp/Golems I can til the nerf comes.

grellnak
11-11-2006, 01:26
Not very experienced here, but I've noticed it can be quite effective in PvP.

I was really skeptical of it at first too, didn't think it would be worth much at all until I tried it.

Combining it with Protective Spirit gives you great damage reduction, and it seems really good at keeping people alive when under attack - for someone under attack by 2 or 3 assassins/warriors/pets/etc it starts popping up the -0s very quickly. Protective Spirit does much to weaken the big single damage hits while the shield quickly negates the more rapid sources of damage.



I think that another strength though to having those points in protection comes from Dismiss Condition, and that new big elite heal (Zealous Benediction? it gives you the energy cost back if target was below 50% anyway). On enchanted targets Dismiss Condition is like Orison of Healing for healing done as well as having condition removal (it always heals the target if they are enchanted even if there is no condition to remove).

Combining those four skills seems to really give you quite a lot of potential for your points in protection, and seems to let you heal quite nicely without having to spend points in healing prayers.

Crovax Blackthorne
11-11-2006, 04:23
Well the rumor has it that some Euro guilds have been running builds with SoA and holding Halls for significant lengths of time. Which is in turn making ANET take a good hard look at it. So again, farm all you can while it's not nerfed.

Hyro
11-11-2006, 16:45
great vs high pressure or on ghostly hero when he's holding altar

Smiting Zealot
11-11-2006, 19:58
i dont see what is so great about the skill, you wont get hit more than 6 times and if you get hit 6 times which would RARELY happen, it would reduce only 30 damage when a simple rof would normally reduce more than that AND heal you so idk why you guys think it is so great.

Almas Darksoul
11-11-2006, 21:20
If you get hit 6 times, it reduces 5((6/2)*(6+1)) damage, or 105. Plus, there are quite a few instances where, in 4-5 seconds, you get hit more than 6 times:


PvE.
Flagger approaches the flagstand - rival team attempts to attack them to slow them down. 2+ warriors attacking, 2-3 midline attacking and maybe wanding. That's easily 5 triggers per 2 seconds.
Rival team spikes -> 2 warriors doing 2 attacks each in 2 seconds to begin, then one per .89 sec. Midline also casting.
Warriors moving into a bodyguard area - 3-4 triggers of maelstrom and firestorm makes them immune to damage.
HA - defending a ghostly hero on the altar.

Akirai Annuvil
12-11-2006, 00:26
5((6/2)*(6+1))

How did you get this formula :S ? Maybe it has something to do with me being very very sleepy but I can't figure it out >.> Bloody annoying :P

Crovax Blackthorne
12-11-2006, 00:36
i dont see what is so great about the skill, you wont get hit more than 6 times and if you get hit 6 times which would RARELY happen, it would reduce only 30 damage when a simple rof would normally reduce more than that AND heal you so idk why you guys think it is so great.

Well farm the Ice Imps and Golems with RoF and see how far you get, lol. I love this build more than the traditional 55 monk and Spirit Bond Monking. Although needing a 30% Aura and 20% Ench. Weap. Mod makes killing a little slower. And it doesn't take much to adapt the build to certain situations.

When I first saw the build in the place which we do not speak of, I was amazed at how stable it was. And I've always detested Ice Imps and Siege Golems. So when I saw that they were pwnt beyond belief, I gave it a go. No need for the special focus. No need for starter armor and taking certain pieces off. Only thing that is still costly is runes for it. Of which you'll maek your money back and then some in drops. And that particular area has promise as a spot to power level.

cranialexodus
12-11-2006, 09:18
How did you get this formula :S ? Maybe it has something to do with me being very very sleepy but I can't figure it out >.> Bloody annoying :P

think of it as +5+10+15+20+25+30=105 or 5(1+2+3+4+5+6), i.e. 5 x the triangle numbers so 5*n(n+1)/2 (where n is number of hits taken).

AscalonWarrior
12-11-2006, 09:42
i dont see what is so great about the skill, you wont get hit more than 6 times and if you get hit 6 times which would RARELY happen, it would reduce only 30 damage when a simple rof would normally reduce more than that AND heal you so idk why you guys think it is so great.

http://files.filefront.com/FILE_VOTE/;6133094;5;/fileinfo.html


Go figure.

cranialexodus
12-11-2006, 18:59
Neither of the builds shown in above clip were anything like optimised, the builds were essentially traditionalist despite incorporating shield of absorption+BA. Mending, for example. They could also be done by a 55 better (due to less attribute investment in survival skills allowing to max a 3rd attribute), albeit with reduced spawns (only in the case of the ice imps/golems). The skill allows farming of shiroken for example, impossible with a 55 - unlike prot spirit, SoA reduces the 20s from their monster skill.

Chemical Ali
13-11-2006, 21:32
I've changed my mind; SoA can replace RoF if needed. However, atm, while BLighting I don't use either so go figure.

MatonLoco
14-11-2006, 06:11
I think this skill is bugged. Damage reduction applies after prot spirit and you get -5 off the initial hit, with all that those 2 imply for 55 hp. You can actually i-monk and over 200hp with no healing except for the DF bonus when you enchant yourself, indefinitely.

13 divine favour + 14 prot is the breakpoint to maintain this 100% of the time with blessed aura and a 20% enchants mod. It resets reduction of course, but nevertheless... this thing is extremely powerful, and not just for farming.

This is probably my favourite nightfall non-elite, farming aside. As for farming, -0s are a lot more satisfying than -5s, even if I haven't yet found a particularly good use for it - and it's capable potentially of tanking an infinite number of mobs, same as pre-nerf spirit bond, without the requirement of many of them doing >60 damage.
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/646/gw017gs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^Example of use, e-denialing a monk boss with and SV->AV->SV chain so you can kill them solo. This would work fine with 33 hp, not 55 though.

how exactly do you kill them solo if you have... lets say..
protective spirit, SoA, mending, balth spirit, blessed aura, SV, AV, and.. SoJ?

I cant see how this can kill anything.. unless you do it for over an hour to kill 1 boss esp. a monk boss

13 dv
14 prot
8 smiting
9 illusion

^^ assuming

cranialexodus
14-11-2006, 08:13
how exactly do you kill them solo if you have... lets say..
protective spirit, SoA, mending, balth spirit, blessed aura, SV, AV, and.. SoJ?

I cant see how this can kill anything.. unless you do it for over an hour to kill 1 boss esp. a monk boss

13 dv
14 prot
8 smiting
9 illusion

^^ assuming

obviously you edenial the boss so they can't cast anything... which is the only point of edenialing in farming a single boss... that's all the -3s... and then you kill them at your leasure using any technique you want. Not smiting though. And mending??? ^^ As an SoA monk you take _0_ damage. Mending is completely redundant. Even if you are taking degen damage, the DF bonus when you enchant yourself will counter ~4 degen, watchful spirit is another option, a +4 rather than a +3 that's more energy efficient that mending. I can screenshot a pic of me dancing on its corpse if you find it hard to believe it can be done ^^. CN+phantasm+IW or something along those lines was what I used, at either 10 or 11 illusion probably the latter.

This isn't even an efficient method of soloing the boss, merely a viable one which is a lot more effective than if performed by a 55. Shadowform/sliver armour is the king for killing this one in particular.

MatonLoco
14-11-2006, 15:23
This isn't even an efficient method of soloing the boss, merely a viable one which is a lot more effective than if performed by a 55. Shadowform/sliver armour is the king for killing this one in particular.

yeah I know, I have an assassin that can do that, but I am new to the monk class.. made 1 in nightfall and just exploring all its farming options. Sorry if I seem not to know everything a monk can do, I dont :grin:

MatonLoco
14-11-2006, 18:47
I tried to edit my other post, but oh well

anyways I think I got it worked out somewhat, I just need something to stop signets... >.< any suggestions.. I have 1 slot thats pretty versatile.. depending on where I am farming.

Mantra of resolve
or
-something to stop signets aka heal Sig or Sig of devotion- <-- need help with this

Edit: gonna try Complicate but this is tough to put points into with mostly 10 in Illusion 14 prot and 13 div. =/