I am having difficulty picking a secondary class, any thoughts?

[exilio]

Hey all,

I am having a hell of a time finding a secondary I really like to go with Paragon. I love the main class and I would like something that utilizes group shouts/effects as well. I picked Monk, but too many of the abilities seem like they are for a single ally only. I think this defeats the purpose of the Paragon.

I am looking at the Paragon not as a big dmg dealer, but an excellent class for buffing up the team and laying down a decent amount of pain from afar with the spear. Any secondary that can enhance that would rock.

Thanks in advance. :grin:

[Jarn]

Warrior! "Watch Yourself" with 0 in Tactics lasts merely 5 seconds, great for refreshing things that are refreshed with Shouts. Also, a great source of energy with investments in Leadership.

[exilio]

Yes Warrior seems to be a popular choice. I'm lvl 7 right now and I already chose Monk, should I just reroll?

[Synthos dawnbreaker]

heh i've gona paragon crazy, i've been playing offensive, defensive, conditions, buffs everythng I can think of :P
Personally alot of the time I play pure paragon, tho I have ranger available to me (pet use) and warrior (for watch yourself and melee urges :P)

[edit]
for great justice also works nicely as another shout with bonus of more adrenaline :grin:

[exilio]

Sorry if I missed it, but do I need to reroll if I want a different secondary? I already chose Monk, but Ranger or Warrior would seem to be a better choice.

[Norrin]

You can change your secondary later on in the game at the Sunspear Sanctuary.. well, the Command Post that is connected to it :P

[exilio]

Thanks Norrin, about what lvl is that? Or in what area?

[rentauri]

The Area is in the Mainland, not really to far past the 4th mission. If you want a filler flip up Go for the Eyes and use that as into you can change secondaries.

Honestly though like Synthos said I dont use a secondary with my paragon. In fact my Paragon is a P/D only to unlock skills for Melonni and I have completed the game without relying on any real secondary. The Paragon is totally complete unto itself with its own attacks, defenses, buffs, and heals that it doesnt need a seocndary unless your after something specfic.

[Fownkaymownkay]

Yeah. If you are /Mo right now, just bring in Smite Hex for now. Hex control is something the paragon does NOT do well.

[Melandhrian]

I used Ranger, and got a croc for extra meat shield (sorry Cap'n) and damage dealing early in the game. By the end of the game, I was playing pure Paragon.

~Mel

[exilio]

Thanks guys. Seems like pure paragon is the way to go.

[TadaceAce]

Why would you go pure paragon... pure builds are straight up stupid. Any pure build would be better with the use of secondary. I've said it half a dozen times already but any paragon thats not P/W using watch yourself (unless grouped with another paragon with watch yourself), is stupid. It synergizes amazingly, +20 armor on your entire party is practically overpowered, it is amazing energy management, it is true insta cast.

[Jarn]

Why would you go pure paragon... pure builds are straight up stupid. Any pure build would be better with the use of secondary.*cough* That's quite a blanket statement.


I've said it half a dozen times already but any paragon thats not P/W using watch yourself (unless grouped with another paragon with watch yourself), is stupid.Maybe you should stop saying it. There are lots of other combinations that work well, too, like Apply Poison with a ranger.

[rentauri]

Oh yeah and let us not forget TadaceAce some of use actually use all 8 skill slots with paragon skill quite well. Watch Yourself is fine I however prefer Go for the Eyes, I find it superior for my paragon.

[TadaceAce]

watch yourself, nets your anywhere from 4-8 energy depending on your leadership. Thats 1 to 2 energy PER HIT. Not only that, but +20 armor reduces damage taken by just under a fourth. So say your party takes 4000 damage a minute. Well, with watch yourself you took, instead, about 3015 damage. All for one skill slot. I pugged for the first time in nightfall today and was blatently reminded why I hate playing this game with random people.

[rentauri]

Your point? Any adrenline based skill will net you that amount and the bonus isnt that big of a deal, Stand your Ground can do the same thing (grant not as often). I would rather spam GtfE over Watch Yourself which will allow everything a greater chance to deal damage.

Calling people stupid because they dont use that one skill... frankly I will never use it, its not worth skill slot to me other skills are.

[critical vengeance]

Your point? Any adrenline based skill will net you that amount and the bonus isnt that big of a deal, Stand your Ground can do the same thing (grant not as often). I would rather spam GtfE over Watch Yourself which will allow everything a greater chance to deal damage.

Calling people stupid because they dont use that one skill... frankly I will never use it, its not worth skill slot to me other skills are.

-No reason you cannot do both if you are the only paragon
-you could use stand your ground GFtE and watchyourself if you really wanted to
-if no one else has watch yourself then everyone has 20 less armor they could have, in nightfall misssion it does help, no reason to outright hate using it.


Why would you go pure paragon... pure builds are straight up stupid. Any pure build would be better with the use of secondary. I've said it half a dozen times already but any paragon thats not P/W using watch yourself (unless grouped with another paragon with watch yourself), is stupid. It synergizes amazingly, +20 armor on your entire party is practically overpowered, it is amazing energy management, it is true insta cast.

-there is nothing wrong with pure paragon, as mentioned before classes can function on their own very well, syergizes though make things special.

-second statement is pretty correct, watch yourself is defiantly a nice thing, but not stupid without.

[Arctic soldier]

or u can change profession in balthazars temple

[rentauri]

-No reason you cannot do both if you are the only paragon
-you could use stand your ground GFtE and watchyourself if you really wanted to
-if no one else has watch yourself then everyone has 20 less armor they could have, in nightfall misssion it does help, no reason to outright hate using it.


Never said I hate it the skill in fact I agree that it has alot of potential combined with a Paragon. My Paragon hero uses it but I dont play with him in my group alot but it works very well with him. What I said was I have no room for a skill that potential exists to gain energy. Yes it can give extra armor but I have my skills working together very well and if I had to select I would rather take a skill linked to an Attribute I have 9-16 points in then one I have 0 in.

My major issue was TadaceAce's blank statement of striaght out Paragons being stupid and they should all be P/W using Watch Yourself. Well Ive never been kicked from a party because I didnt have Watch Yourself nor did I ever think to myself "Damn if only I had that Watch Yourself on my bar I would have pawned him."

Overall I thnk the the skill is great and I often would like to take it with me because as he said it works well. That said I wont take it, not because of any hate, but simply because I cant see myself taking that skill when there are plenty of Paragon skills I want on my bar.

[JoeKnowMo]

I've said it half a dozen times already but any paragon thats not P/W using watch yourself (unless grouped with another paragon with watch yourself), is stupid. It synergizes amazingly, +20 armor on your entire party is practically overpowered, it is amazing energy management, it is true insta cast.

Reasons to not take WY:
- You have to invest points in tactics.
- A war with high points in tactics usually brings it and can make it last much longer.
- You want to use a different secondary.

If you take GFTE, that means increased damage from all allies. If you have 3 pets in your group and an MM, that means about 20 allies have pretty high chance to get crits very often. If you have 2 MMs (Olias and Master of Whispers), it gg. GFTE will also trigger refrains often, so there's another bonus there.

There's many effective ways to play a para. Box yourself in with your P/W if you like. But it's not the only way to play.

[DKS]

Reasons to not take WY:
- You have to invest points in tactics.
- A war with high points in tactics usually brings it and can make it last much longer.


Point 1-No you don't. It's a low cost adrenaline skill, easily spammable regardless of points or no points in tactics. It can be used to keep Echos such as Aggressive Refrain up continually during combat even with 0 tactics, and provides a continual rapid source of energy assuming you have points in leadership.
Point 2-Maybe in your groups perhaos, but in the PUGs I've played in, I almost never saw warriors using WY! unless I brought it myself.

[Protege]

The whole What yourself vs go for the eyes debate has been going on forever and probably never will reach a resolution in the community. For my personal intents and purposes GFtE serves me much better than WY. When we are talking about recharging refrains they both do the job but gfte comes off as soon as the person attacks so it is almost an insta-refresh during a battle. Since i'm using Blazing finale i want my trigger shout to come off as fast as possible so gfte is the obvious choice....now if we are saying we bring WY to keep up refrains then I can't say i understand that one....WY will only help keep them up during battle where adrenaline is plentiful...if you want to keep them up, better bring something more like anthem of flame a shout you can cast every 10 seconds for a mana cost you can afford. WY offers great damage reduction which i am all for but it doesn't fit in my build. I have stand your ground which i preffer for it's length of duration and the fact that i often have koss shouting out WY anyway. I also use their on fire for damage reduction and I must be honest when Koss isn't with me i really don't notice the difference.

In the end you have to evaluate the skill for what it really is and then see if it fits in your build. When we start debating WY or GFtE look at the actuall differences...Same adrenaline...same mana bonus from leadership....the only difference is one reduces the damage your party takes and one increases the damage that your party does....end of story.

I play pure paragon and wish i had more skill slots so i could bring even more paragon skills it's an awesome class....

If you play P/W great...if you don't Great....I must admit I am always more intersted in a paragon that isn't a warrior secondary simple because they aren't blindly following a trend..not that all P/W are blind followers.

Blanket statments like the one that TadaceAce made will always bother me...attitudes like that just crush any sence of inovation in the community. Come on man there are some really impressionable people that read these threads don't hurt their chances by putting them in a mind set.

It will be interesting to see the evolution of the paragon....I remember when prophs first came out and everyone was a W/Mo...now a wammo is perhaps the most hated combination in the game...just go over to the warrior section and look at all the wammo hate:grin: Maybe sometime in the not so near future P/W will have the same love shown them.

[Melandhrian]

Well, I haven't rechecked this thread in a couple days...wow.

Rather than WY, I use a GftE/FTW combo that really pumps up damage ability. I should probably take offense to being called stupid, but meh. Everyone has an opinion, and no one's paying him to be in my PuG.

One strong reason that I play pure paragon is the ability to collect elites for my henchmen. I changed to elementalist last night, and was able to pick up that awesome fire elite from the Hidden City. Zhed has promised his undying loyalty for that alone. If hench could use cap sigs, things might be a bit different, but I don't want to get dependent on a certain skill set then be caught without the ability to use it.

I use a Spearmastery/Command build. I use for Spear slots and four Command slots. It works beautifully, and I finished the game with a straight command build for buffs. My latest effort is a pure necromancer, although I may go with a /mo for rebirth or rez chant. I have found though, that buffing two skill sets to the max gives you a great deal of power that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Purity isn't everything, I have a Wammo myself (I even use mending) but I play PvE, and in prophecies, and you never know what kind of PuG you're going to end with.

Anyhow, my $0.02

For what it's worth.

Mel.

[ferralboy]

I have decided to go offensive for a little while with my Paragon. Running P/E with cranked fire, Anthem of flame, an attack skill, glowing gaze,searing flames, burning spear. I am thinking of adding in steam with leftover points maybe.