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nSin
13-11-2006, 08:52
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2899/motivationbv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Attributes:

Motivation: 12+1+3
Leadership: 10+2
Command: 8+1
Spear Mastery: 2+1

Signet of Synergy - Target other ally is healed for 40-100 Health. If you are not under the effects of an Enchantment, you are also healed for 40-100 Health.
Anthem of Flame - For 10 seconds, the next attack skill used by each ally within earshot also causes Burning for 1-3 seconds.
Song of Restoration - For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Skill, that party member gains 40-88 Health. This is an elite skill.
Aria of Restoration - For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Spell, that ally gains 40-100 Health.
Finale of Restoration - For 10-35 seconds, whenever a Chant or Shout ends a target ally, that ally is healed for 15-75 Health.
Mending of Refrain - For 20 seconds, target ally has +1-4 Health regeneration. This Echo is reapplied every time a Chant or Shouts ends on that ally.
Stand Your Ground - For 10-30 seconds, all allies within earshot receive +24 armor when not moving
Res Signet/Signet of Return/Sunpear Rebirth Signet - For when a partmember dies

Suggested skills for your heroes:

Watch Yourself / Go for the eyes / Shields Up / Defensive Anthem / Energizing Finale / Incomming / Stand Your Ground - any shout

How it works, start with casting Mending of Refrain on everyone, and keep this going by casting Song of Restoration and Anthem of Flame constantly. When a fight starts, keep recasting SoR/AoF/AoR constantly and cast Finale of Restoration on whoever is taking the most damage, same for the Signet of Synergy. Stand your ground should be used whenever it's up/needed.

I believe this build to work - extremely - good. Especially if you have a henchmen with a couple of the suggested skills (watch yourself and shields up are reallllly nice to have around). This build was enough heal to only pick one monk for the final missions in NightFall, which seems like a good deal to me. It keeps everyone on full hp unless there is a heavy spike, in which the monk can spikeheal. You won't really be attacking and constantly using spells, which is why I don't use any Adrenaline skills, even though some of them would fit in really well.

~nSin

waywrong
13-11-2006, 10:00
That's probably my dream shield right there, looks cool, and stats aren't shabby at all...now if the req as a little lower...:wink:

SYG is not the best at triggering echos with it's 45 second recast, for that I'd probably go with something with a lower recharge time/duration like Never Give Up, or Never Surrender.

Barrage + GftE is pretty awesome for rapidly triggering Finale of Restoration. As long as everyone keeps spamming attacks, and the Barrager has targets to shoot, you'll be getting tons of health.

nSin
13-11-2006, 13:02
Anthem of Flame is there for the echo triggering, SYG is just there because it's almost too good to pass up to, 24 armor, just for standing stil.. I'll sign for that. However, I'll look at the other two but I believe they\re conditional aren't they? (below 75%)

My ranger uses Barrage+GTFE, and yeah it's awesome. I also use a warrior that spams Watch yourself and a paragon that has a defensive motivation build. A LOT of shouts are casted, my entire screen is full with them :X

Fownkaymownkay
13-11-2006, 15:27
Take out SYG for Burning Finale? And drop Command. And switch AoF for... Watch Yourself?

I dunno, I'm just not a bit fan of AoF, since only half the party can benefit from the burning. Burning Finale on the other hand, you can control. And if you have a good tank.. well then its all over :grin:.


Hmm. On second thought, keep SYG, but drop AoF for GftE. Yeah, there we go. Everybody likes a nice adrenaline shout to boost energy :grin:.

rentauri
13-11-2006, 15:48
With Anthem of Flame it depends, sure it only triggers on an attack skill but it ends in ten seconds. That ending Triggers any Echos on the entire party plus she is not forced to attack to build up Adrenline.

nSin
13-11-2006, 15:52
AoF is there mostly because of Mending of Refrain - while it's possible to do this only with song of power, it's also energy management, heals with Finale and it's a good insurance.

I used to have Watch Yourself/GftO but I found that I quite simply never have the time to attack anything. I would love to have watch yourself in there but I'm constantly busy casting spells. The amount of attacks I get in would be enough for like 1 watch yourself every 30 seconds.

NeferJackal
13-11-2006, 16:03
Methinks you should check over Song of Restoration one time more

Song of Restoration 5e 1c 15r Elite Motivation Chant
Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Skill, that party member gains 40...88 Health.

As soon you use a skill, Song of Restoration heals you before ending. Then it will recycle any refrains on you, or activate a finale on you.

Lord Zado
13-11-2006, 16:26
True Song of Restoration would recycle any echoes on you when you use a skill, but what if you are running between battles and not using skills? Sometimes you get really long runs between fights. Just using Song of Restoration would give you 25 seconds to run to the next enemy and use a skill, whereas Anthem of Flame gives you inifinite upkeep.

If you're talking about equipping heroes to synergize with this build. Set up dual Searing Flames nukers: Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Aura of Restoration, Ward Against Melee (Great Skill!), Leech Sig, Rez Sig for your 2 ele heroes and take They're on Fire instead of Stand Your Ground. This would reduce damage more than SYG and you can have it up permanently.

I ran a pure command build with just 1 Searing Flame hero (took Jin by accident) and this worked like a charm. Accidently aggroed 2 groups of demons and a group of margonites in the 2nd to last mission and got through it with no deaths.

NeferJackal
13-11-2006, 16:40
True Song of Restoration would recycle any echoes on you when you use a skill, but what if you are running between battles and not using skills? Sometimes you get really long runs between fights. Just using Song of Restoration would give you 25 seconds to run to the next enemy and use a skill, whereas Anthem of Flame gives you inifinite upkeep.

If you're talking about equipping heroes to synergize with this build. Set up dual Searing Flames nukers: Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Aura of Restoration, Ward Against Melee (Great Skill!), Leech Sig, Rez Sig for your 2 ele heroes and take They're on Fire instead of Stand Your Ground. This would reduce damage more than SYG and you can have it up permanently.

I ran a pure command build with just 1 Searing Flame hero (took Jin by accident) and this worked like a charm. Accidently aggroed 2 groups of demons and a group of margonites in the 2nd to last mission and got through it with no deaths.

Simple solution, target someone. Click Signet of Synergy, and voila, Song of Restoration procs and keeps Mending Refrain alive.

nSin
13-11-2006, 17:02
I already acknowledged that, but I mentioned it as song of power, quite obviously I referred to Song of Restoration with this as SoP isn't even in my build :X

The second time activating you'll have only 2 seconds first one ends after 10 seconds, Mending Refreshes itsselve (22 second duration), 5 seconds later you recast it (22-5=17) after 10 seconds it ends again. If anyone ends it on for instance the second second by casting a skill it will take another 24 seconds for SoR to start and end again which would mean that Mending of Refrain ends.

You don't have this problem with AoF and you have a lot more time in general. On another note, the 3 second burning with 12 in leadership really isnt that bad anyway. Works great with barrage rangers for instance. I personally find it easy and convenient, you can take your time if not everyone is in earshot yet, but I would agree that in a perfect world AoF is not needed.

critical vengeance
13-11-2006, 22:36
i like the build, but i love your sheild... i am jealous, a bit a least.

Fownkaymownkay
14-11-2006, 14:51
Works great with barrage rangers for instance.
Why would it? AoF only affects 1 arrow for Barrage.

nSin
14-11-2006, 16:11
was under the impression that it worked for all ? Might have been the dervish that puts the entire opposing team on fire then I guess.

Fownkaymownkay
14-11-2006, 16:30
I'm not too sure about Scythes either, but they should work.

And I highly doubt that the dervish would put all of the other monsters on fire. Just a bit over half :). Unless they are tanking, of course.


Aaand.. Hmm. I think you should experiment with Blazing Finale, it really IS worth the skill slot. Take out Finale of Restoration for it, and give it a whirl.

vader
14-11-2006, 20:40
Attributes:

Motivation: 12+1+3
Leadership: 10+2
Command: 8+1
Spear Mastery: 2+1


This looks like a pretty good build and I'll give it a try. However, why bother with a Spear Mastery rune since you're not using any Spear skills? I think I'd rather add +2 to Command and offset that with a +10 health rune instead of the minor Spear Mastery.

ravskau
17-11-2006, 20:06
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2899/motivationbv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Attributes:

Motivation: 12+1+3
Leadership: 10+2
Command: 8+1
Spear Mastery: 2+1

Signet of Synergy - Target other ally is healed for 40-100 Health. If you are not under the effects of an Enchantment, you are also healed for 40-100 Health.
Anthem of Flame - For 10 seconds, the next attack skill used by each ally within earshot also causes Burning for 1-3 seconds.
Song of Restoration - For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Skill, that party member gains 40-88 Health. This is an elite skill.
Aria of Restoration - For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Spell, that ally gains 40-100 Health.
Finale of Restoration - For 10-35 seconds, whenever a Chant or Shout ends a target ally, that ally is healed for 15-75 Health.
Mending of Refrain - For 20 seconds, target ally has +1-4 Health regeneration. This Echo is reapplied every time a Chant or Shouts ends on that ally.
Stand Your Ground - For 10-30 seconds, all allies within earshot receive +24 armor when not moving
Res Signet/Signet of Return/Sunpear Rebirth Signet - For when a partmember dies

Suggested skills for your heroes:

Watch Yourself / Go for the eyes / Shields Up / Defensive Anthem / Energizing Finale / Incomming / Stand Your Ground - any shout

How it works, start with casting Mending of Refrain on everyone, and keep this going by casting Song of Restoration and Anthem of Flame constantly. When a fight starts, keep recasting SoR/AoF/AoR constantly and cast Finale of Restoration on whoever is taking the most damage, same for the Signet of Synergy. Stand your ground should be used whenever it's up/needed.

I believe this build to work - extremely - good. Especially if you have a henchmen with a couple of the suggested skills (watch yourself and shields up are reallllly nice to have around). This build was enough heal to only pick one monk for the final missions in NightFall, which seems like a good deal to me. It keeps everyone on full hp unless there is a heavy spike, in which the monk can spikeheal. You won't really be attacking and constantly using spells, which is why I don't use any Adrenaline skills, even though some of them would fit in really well.

~nSin

Do you have a suggestion for a substitute for SoR until it can be captured>
I am having trouble finding Toshau to cap it..... Garden is already Nightfallen and he isn't in there? Will completing the Hordes mission restore it and have him spawning? Or, am I gonna hafta complete the game to get access to him?

nSin
17-11-2006, 20:14
You need to party with someone that either completed the game or someone that didnt activate nightfall. SoR can be replaced with Ballad of Restoration, actually, Ballad of Restoration should replace stand your ground in the original build. Song of Purification is good too

Spatzimaus
17-11-2006, 22:26
I'm doing something similar; faster, but less sustainable. The problem with depending on the Refrains is that they're just so SLOW. Regeneration is nice, but it just can't keep up with high-level damage.
Here's what I've done:

1> Get Leadership to 14, and Motivation to at least 10 (12 is better).
2> Bring the following skills:

Slayer's Spear- If this attack hits, you deal +5-17 damage. If that foe has more Health than you, that foe suffers from a Deep Wound for 5-17 seconds. (Spear of Lightning is good for this... the key is you just need a 5e attack skill to trigger certain chants, and Slayer's Spear is great against bosses.)
Finale of Restoration- For 10-35 seconds, whenever a Chant or Shout ends a target ally, that ally is healed for 15-75 Health.
Energizing Finale- For 10-30 seconds, whenever a Shout or Chant ends on a target ally, that ally gains 1-3 Energy.
Signet of Return, for obvious reasons.
They're On Fire!- For 20 seconds, allies within earshot take 5-41% less damage from foes suffering from Burning.

In most cases, bring:
Blazing Finale- For 10-35 seconds, whenever a Chant or Shout ends on target ally, all foes adjacent to that ally are set on fire for 1-3 seconds.

And for the remaining, just pick shouts/chants that affect all allies within earshot. It really doesn't matter which ones you pick, since you don't actually care whether they trigger or not. But, I suggest:
Chorus of Restoration (costs 4 adrenaline)- For 10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot uses a Shout or Chant, that ally is healed for 40-100 Health.
Zealous Anthem- For 10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot uses an attack skill, that ally gains 3-10 Energy.

If you didn't bring Blazing Finale, bring:
Anthem of Flame- (you know what it is)
but only until you get Song of Restoration.

In combat, just spam these shouts/chants, and throw the various Finales on people as soon as they refresh. Since you'll be getting 7 energy back from the Leadership for each chant, you'll be gaining energy for most of them, especially if you put Energizing Finale on yourself at some point.

3> Make sure all of your allies have several shouts or chants of their own, and weapon users should have at least one adrenal shout/chant. For instance, if Koss' only adrenal skill is "Watch Yourself!" he'll be triggering it CONSTANTLY, which is a good thing; for Melonni, I put points into Command and gave her "Go For the Eyes!". I also set up Sousuke as an E/P and Dunkoro as an Mo/P; just make sure they're using ones you don't (like Sousuke got Aria of Zeal, while Dunkoro uses Ballad of Restoration and a couple Finales of his own). Margrid got Chorus of Restoration as well, simply to drain off adrenaline.

Point is, there'll be so many shouts and chants flying around that during any given second, at least two will be wearing off of each character. If you start throwing the Finales on anyone who needs them (they last 27-33 seconds at high skill levels), that's a HUGE amount of efficiency. If Finale of Restoration heals 75 per shout, only costs 5, and triggers 40 or 50 times during its duration, the tank will NEVER die. With Energizing Finale, your casters will never run out of energy... energy which they can turn right around and use for MORE shouts/chants.

And with Blazing Finale, every enemy near your tank will be on fire constantly... and thanks to "They're on Fire!" will be doing far less damage. It's like an always-on Aegis that also protects from spell damage.

Seriously, I tried this last night and it was just scary. At one point I had four rows of shouts/chants active, and the group's health bars simply weren't moving. I can't wait until I get a Paragon hero... now imagine how well it'd work in a human group designed around it, with EACH placing the various Finales as needed.

ravskau
18-11-2006, 04:16
You need to party with someone that either completed the game or someone that didnt activate nightfall. SoR can be replaced with Ballad of Restoration, actually, Ballad of Restoration should replace stand your ground in the original build. Song of Purification is good too

Paid someone that had completed the game......if they went in alone it was pre fallen garden....when i went to it was nightfallen......So, donno if going with someone that has not triggered nightfallen will work....What triggers nightfallen?
Can you even get there without triggering it. Will doing the Jennur's Horde revert it?
Sorry to be such a pest but am trying to be a true paragon stead of a "Spear-agon" and am having a tough time getting through the end missions....
Had gate of pain all but done (9 souls freed, tortureweb with number 10 75% down) with enough emmisarys dead to have gotten masters and Comcraptic dropped my internet connection.......

Fownkaymownkay
18-11-2006, 06:32
Run a Command build. Tons of defense and nice damage (via burning), you'll like it.

16 Command
13 Leadership

Stand Your Ground!
Never Surrender!
GftE!
They're on Fire!
Blazing Finale
Cautery Signet
Plague Sending
Sig of Return


Or, just ditch CSig and PS for Defensive Anthem + Natural Temper. More GftEs, more burning. But, you lose condition control. And gain an Aegis-type thing. It's a toss up.

TakisKalakos
18-11-2006, 11:09
Run a Command build. Tons of defense and nice damage (via burning), you'll like it.

16 Command
13 Leadership

Stand Your Ground!
Never Surrender!
GftE!
They're on Fire!
Blazing Finale
Cautery Signet
Plague Sending
Sig of Return


Or, just ditch CSig and PS for Defensive Anthem + Natural Temper. More GftEs, more burning. But, you lose condition control. And gain an Aegis-type thing. It's a toss up.

Would something like this modified version of your above build work for farming?

Stand Your Ground!
Finale of Restoration
GftE!
They're on Fire!
Blazing Finale
Natural Temper
Song of Restoration
Bladeturn Refrain

Basically you sit there and spam GFTE and Natural Temper while under FoR and SoR healing yourself while They're on Fire, Stand your Ground and Bladeturn help mitigate damage and Blazing Finale does all the damage.

Nat Temper causes heals for SoR while GFTE causes healing for FoR
may need to take one henchie for Leadership energy regain utilization. dont know how this build would hold up energy wise (cause i lack the skills to test it)

Fownkaymownkay
18-11-2006, 11:30
No idea, try it out. I sure can't right about now, I'm shooting for survivor.

But putting in Watch Yourself would be smart.

TakisKalakos
18-11-2006, 11:53
No idea, try it out. I sure can't right about now, I'm shooting for survivor.

But putting in Watch Yourself would be smart.

yea...i'm kinda anti P/W. lol call me a rebel.

Fownkaymownkay
18-11-2006, 13:38
The fact of the matter is: WY is very helpful for farming. Use it.

Or, fail multiple farming runs, your choice. Unless you find a better alternative, then use that.

ravskau
18-11-2006, 20:16
The fact of the matter is: WY is very helpful for farming. Use it.

Or, fail multiple farming runs, your choice. Unless you find a better alternative, then use that.

Where does Watch Yourself come in???? Askin cause I don't see it in your suggested build.

Fownkaymownkay
19-11-2006, 05:12
I was saying throw it in somewhere..

But let's talk about that in a different thread, please start posting on-topic about the Motivation build in the OP.