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ddpddpddp
24-11-2006, 09:41
so after deciding that pve had become to boring, i decided to focus more on gvg and HA. I spent a couple nights looking for a group in heroes ascent, becoming frustrated with the fact that finding a team that will take rank0 is next to impossible(i wont take heroes, but thats another debate all together). finally, a rank3 group took pity on me and let me join there group, at this point i was just mad at the fact that it had taken so long to find a group, and i didnt really care what rank they were. the group was very friendly with me, i made mistakes, they stayed calm and gave me advice on my builds, the maps ect..never once were they rude, and i managed to make 30 fame that night. i came out of that night with basic knowlege of the maps, and was ready to apply that little bit of knowlege the next time i went into HA.


the next night however, i went into HA and was instantly invited to a random PUG all rank0-2, im hardly in a place to dicriminate, being a freshly minted rank1 and all, so i agree to hang with them for a couple hours, as we try out some builds........the builds were not the problem, players were all over the place, nobody called targets, or even worse, 3 people called targets at the same time. over and over again we did the same map learning nothing about anything except how to die, and i already knew how to do that. i chalked it up to a bad night and went to bed.


its been 1 week since that night, and its like im a magnet for the worst players in gw history, between the ragequitters who quit if we dont get 10% morale boost every time, or the imfamous team full of leaders who cant choose a target. even using ts/vent is a hassle, as u get 4 people yelling and screaming at u to do this and that, then getting mad at u because u couldnt take 3 monks singlehandedly. and dont forget my favourite type of group, the group that pees themselves when they see their opponent is in a rank 993 guild, then quit in fear...only for me to see a heroway group come running at me.

in 7 days my total earned fame? 47 :( . i knew it would be tough to get those first few ranks, thats the idea, to learn as u go so u are not a liability to higher ranked players. little did i realize what the differences in ranks can truly be. god willing ill be rank3 by christmas, hopefully that will help get me into better groups, but for every decent group i get, i get 100 groups that arent even trying to understand the game, that are just there to farm fame, and get a nifty emote

so when the time comes for me to help some low ranked person, will i do it?? probably, but it will be the exception, not the rule. that may not be the best thing to do, but if having a high rank filters out even half of these types of people, ill consider it time well spent.

and now, on to rank2................

scamPOR
24-11-2006, 10:25
Most lower ranked people are just using heroes... I'm suprised you can even find a lower ranked team period. I remember my first ranks were a pain but I made an flist and started my own groups and it went a lot faster.

Also rank really doesn't mean much. I mean most rank 3 people are unlikely to be much better, but more likely to be more of the same annoying people just at it for longer.

Best of luck in your quest.

quago
24-11-2006, 12:01
I was in your situation b4 but henchway can really solve your problems ppl calling targets but not following it and other problems u might encounter. The only thing is they are not capable of having a complicated build like motivation henchmen in thier full extent.

Sf, Command para and healing monk are some of the examples i can give u right now. but u would still need to have 2 ppl with you so they can monk right and run right in relic runs. And for the record, ive managed to be up to rank6 guild in 50/50 ratio and 1:10 ratio against henchway.

Ofcourse REAL skilled(also in human communication) > heroes

Domina Spellbinder
24-11-2006, 12:38
I know what where you're comming from. And it's why:

team of (high)ranked friends > (high)ranked team > friends team > Heroway > ranked pug > rankless pug

Just finding 5 other players who have no clue about HA, but who are willing to learn, already takes you halfway. I did it with my guild, at first we had huge difficulties with Broken Towers, now we frequently win it, had huge difficulties with relic runs, also semi-solved, and progress will continue.

Another thing to note is that everyone has days where HA just seems to be going their way. Thats just bad luck, remember it can happen that you enter UW 4 times and face r9+ players each and every time.

I could never understand why people would spend an hour forming a team and then leave it after the first setback.

slakt
24-11-2006, 12:38
The main thing that makes it hard for new players to get into groups right now are of course heroes. It's a vicious circle: low ranked players can't get into groups, so they play with heroes instead - that means that there are less low ranked players making/looking for groups, thus making it harder for new players to find groups.

JodoKast
24-11-2006, 14:58
I was in your situation b4 but henchway can really solve your problems ppl calling targets but not following it and other problems u might encounter. The only thing is they are not capable of having a complicated build like motivation henchmen in thier full extent.

Sf, Command para and healing monk are some of the examples i can give u right now. but u would still need to have 2 ppl with you so they can monk right and run right in relic runs. And for the record, ive managed to be up to rank6 guild in 50/50 ratio and 1:10 ratio against henchway.

Ofcourse REAL skilled(also in human communication) > heroes

That is the real ironic contractition in the complains today btw :

- low ranked people find average pugs too bad and use heroes as it is realistically their best chance at fame farming (when they don't have friends online)

- high ranked people ask to remove heroes because it has made HA boring and less competitive (therefore implying that hero-made team are worse than pugs)

:wink:

ImSoToast
24-11-2006, 15:31
That is the real ironic contractition in the complains today btw :

- low ranked people find average pugs too bad and use heroes as it is realistically their best chance at fame farming (when they don't have friends online)

- high ranked people ask to remove heroes because it has made HA boring and less competitive (therefore implying that hero-made team are worse than pugs)

:wink:

Ya it's almost like heroes are becoming a necessary evil. Honestly it seems like theres less heroeways running around. Seems likemore and more people are doing it with two other people at least.

To me, it seems to be getting harder to get into groups. Also seems like theres more r6 or close to r6 people and less r3 or below people. I think the rank gap is getting bigger and its getting even harder for new players. Thats just what it seems to me for now.

Sgt Masters
24-11-2006, 16:43
I have to agree with the posts which all say it is near impossible to get into a group in HA. I am a OLD guy in age compared to most folks and takes some time to even understand what people are saying when you go to HA.
I have spent a lot of time doing the AB battles which I thought were along the games objectives. Earning titles takes a load of time (no farming or whatever), the last title steward is I believe 1,200,000 points...anyway, decided to try PVP and Hero's. I have sat there probably 20 - 30 minutes trying to get into a group, probably about 8 or 9 times now. I understand everyone is trying to win and gain rank, however if all folks rank or no, want to continue to play, I think it might be wise to at least give a small amount of time to "new" folks. If everyone gets
frustrated by not being able to even try, then soon the quantity of people playing there will drop off. Well, I will keep trying for now....hope to see everyone there :) Roving Ranger, Commander V I M E S, Cmdr V I M E S...

Lord Natural
24-11-2006, 17:40
The same age old problem still applies with HA. You need rank to find a decent group, but getting that rank remains the problem. If it's any consolation, a lot of people have gone through what you guys have. Some were lucky enough to be in guilds who started HA together as a group, others had to rely upon fotm's. I do see some guilds recruiting in HA home districts from time to time who do not discriminate on rank. Perhaps you'll get lucky and find some like minded folks to start playing together.

nightrunner
24-11-2006, 19:19
New players used to have to PUG to get their first few ranks, which was a headache but a good learning experience in general. By the time you got to the point where you could get into higher ranked groups, you knew enough to carry your weight. With Heroway, you can farm the first few maps for your deer and learn little to nothing about teamwork and strategy.

Djinn Effer
24-11-2006, 21:05
Rank has absolutely nothing to do with the players to be quite honest. It's just knowledge associated with playing the game that gives the advantage. Higher ranked players (generally) have more experience simply because they have played more.

For example, I remember the first time I was on a relic run... (2 years ago) Nobody knew what to do, everyone was running around like idiots; we lost out of nowhere and had no idea why. But now, I know bodyblocking... relic passing... (more ways than one)... pretty much everything of every map. Thats a huge difference to just kinda running around trying to figure out whats going on.

Your differences you experienced between the r0 groups and r3 groups is the same difference between r3 and r6, r6 and 9. r9 and friends/guilds. As you get better you'll start to notice this and look back and think how silly you seemed and how bad you really were. At least most of the good people can do that, the people that are bad and stay bad generally just think they were always great and still are. (those are the people that never get better)

You can also relate those differences with guild ranks. You'd be shocked with the level of coordination top 20 guilds have. Anyways, good luck getting into PvP; it wasn't always this bad... It's kinda sad you waited so long to get into it.

ddpddpddp
24-11-2006, 21:53
You can also relate those differences with guild ranks. You'd be shocked with the level of coordination top 20 guilds have. Anyways, good luck getting into PvP; it wasn't always this bad... It's kinda sad you waited so long to get into it.

im starting to think i did wait too long to get into pvp, for all its faults, im having more fun now then i did in pve, but i noticed something else today, lower ranked people (like myself) are almost being forced into Fotm groups because nobody wants to run anything different, as i see it(and forgive me, im still learning) a searing flames build seems like it can do alot of damage, but can it really be all that effective at holding halls? things like that make me realize that alot of lower ranks are just trying to get those first few fame, and not really learning anything. during my first relic run, i had no idea what to do, the ranked team i was with explained to me how it works, and right then i knew that there were advantages to applying pressure on the other team, to run the clock a bit, that may not be how all people do it, but it makes more sense than the next group, who all ran like chickens with their heads cut off.

i just dont like how im kindof being forced to farm fame, instead of actually learning the maps and builds, what use am i going to be if all my experience is as a searing flames ele? but its becoming even harder to find somebody that will run something different, we can get destroyed by another team simply by them bringing winter.....do they change there build after? do they try something new? nope. all that matters to them is repeating the first 3 maps, making some fame, and repeating over and over again. i hope to make some like minded friends in HA soon that steer away from this sort of thing..at least im learning what i DONT want to do ;)

Lord Natural
24-11-2006, 22:34
a searing flames build seems like it can do alot of damage, but can it really be all that effective at holding halls? things like that make me realize that alot of lower ranks are just trying to get those first few fame, and not really learning anything.

You've got it. Many new or low ranked players use fotms to increase their rank. You're not really learning anything, but like you said, it's either that or get stuck with an unranked group trying to play balanced who are running around like headless chickens after the first map. The best you can hope for, is to meet people along the way who share your dislike for gimmicky builds.

Many people are running those SF builds because it's an easy way to 'farm' unprepared teams in uw. Maybe you'll get lucky in Broken Tower and make it 2 consecutive, but because the build lacks support (the way most people run it), it's not likely to give you a long consecutive streak or a chance at holding halls. It does get a little easier once you hit rank 3, as there are many other players in your position as well - those who've grinded out their 180 (perhaps distastefully) and are just eager to try their hand at a real build.

Djinn Effer
25-11-2006, 09:13
I was like you ddpddpddp, a lot of people are... I despise fotm builds, most the people here know I was in Marvel Superheroes... The most renowned guild for running a cheap cheap fotm (spirit spam) - I actually refused to tomb with them. I probably never said this, but while I was in MS I mostly played with Int One Allstars [gg], or Miss Air Jordan.

Getting fame is one thing, and thats something that a lot of people want to do. Most people, that is their only goal and they don't really like HA other than for that. I wasn't like that... The game wasn't just about getting fame, getting your name world spammed or getting sigils (which were 100k)... It was about actually playing and becoming better.

Now days though, I'd run a fotm just like any other person. I have nothing left to learn about HA; it isn't even remotely fun now, especially with heroes.

I guess most people like myself are GvGers, the mode of game that actually relies on skill.. Speaking of which, since you're pretty like minded.. You might wanna try GvG out; but, I should warn you... Its going to be really bad when you first start out, cause your guild is going to be garbage... Once you get into the higher level of it (e.g. playing with better players and better guilds) I think you'd really enjoy it a lot.

Where as HA, not much is left... Just big flashy epeens.

ImSoToast
25-11-2006, 16:31
I was like you ddpddpddp, a lot of people are... I despise fotm builds, most the people here know I was in Marvel Superheroes... The most renowned guild for running a cheap cheap fotm (spirit spam) - I actually refused to tomb with them. I probably never said this, but while I was in MS I mostly played with Int One Allstars [gg], or Miss Air Jordan.

Getting fame is one thing, and thats something that a lot of people want to do. Most people, that is their only goal and they don't really like HA other than for that. I wasn't like that... The game wasn't just about getting fame, getting your name world spammed or getting sigils (which were 100k)... It was about actually playing and becoming better.

Now days though, I'd run a fotm just like any other person. I have nothing left to learn about HA; it isn't even remotely fun now, especially with heroes.

I guess most people like myself are GvGers, the mode of game that actually relies on skill.. Speaking of which, since you're pretty like minded.. You might wanna try GvG out; but, I should warn you... Its going to be really bad when you first start out, cause your guild is going to be garbage... Once you get into the higher level of it (e.g. playing with better players and better guilds) I think you'd really enjoy it a lot.

Where as HA, not much is left... Just big flashy epeens.

Ya I'm starting to get shocked that when new gvg seasons started they didn't do something to "spice" up Ha. Fudge some new map rotations for every new GvG season would be nice.

The team size isn't the problem in Ha it's the maps. Really its past 1 1/2 years and we have almost the same maps with exactly the same goals as before. And wtf is up with the alter matches, f just make it all one big alter match after another.....oh wait it almost is!

Mathius Clarkus
25-11-2006, 17:35
But whever the maps are changed, Arena Net get a huge amount of criticism and get told to change them back, so how can you be surprised?

BTW i think you have been a little harsh. I am rank 2 only and i wouldn't call myself a novice. The problem is all the experienced players who have played for a long time or iwayed their way up the ranks dont take low ranked people so those people don't learn/get groups, but when they finally get there they then do the same thing because it was done to them. You are low rank so you can't get a group so you can't progress, so you dont gain rank, so youcant get a group and so on...

I think lots of people (especially those who know what it's like to fight up the ranks right now) would agree with me when i say getting rid of rank would solve so many problems....

Djinn Effer
25-11-2006, 22:18
But whever the maps are changed, Arena Net get a huge amount of criticism and get told to change them back, so how can you be surprised?

BTW i think you have been a little harsh. I am rank 2 only and i wouldn't call myself a novice. The problem is all the experienced players who have played for a long time or iwayed their way up the ranks dont take low ranked people so those people don't learn/get groups, but when they finally get there they then do the same thing because it was done to them. You are low rank so you can't get a group so you can't progress, so you dont gain rank, so youcant get a group and so on...

I think lots of people (especially those who know what it's like to fight up the ranks right now) would agree with me when i say getting rid of rank would solve so many problems....

I'm sorry, but you are a novice. If you keep playing HA, you will eventually figure that out. (At least if its with people.) If not, then maybe its better that you don't; either way, it is true. Getting rid of ranks would solve nothing, it would just make HA even that much more pointless.

There is no problem getting groups, if you have a problem then its with yourself... I've tried on other accounts with names that arn't known to get groups.. I've never had problems. I could join r9 groups on a r0 account simply by not sounding like an idiot when I pmed the group leader. You could just make a group... But, if you're going to be making a group like that.. You need to have knowledge of the game type or people are going to be figuring out that you don't know what you're talking about really quickly.

oneofthedragon
26-11-2006, 05:41
No. You were lucky. A r3 only team who took one lower than them more than likely is a kinder one, and more wise-ish. A person who allows others to learn is more skilled than one that does not. You can join r3 and most will be like the 0-2 you have already found, rank elitism is not right because, more than likely, they have little knowledge more than you that can't be found in any PvP or a forum, I have held the tombs 2 times, both times with a group of friends. Rank is also a vicious cycle, those who do not have rank can not gain rank, as those with rank say that they are unfamiliar with HA, and in order to get familiarity they need to join groups, in order to join groups they need rank...

B Ephekt
26-11-2006, 06:11
A person who allows others to learn is more skilled than one that does not.This makes absolutely no sense.

You can join r3 and most will be like the 0-2 you have already found, rank elitism is not right because, more than likely, they have little knowledge more than you that can't be found in any PvP or a forum
You can read all the forums you want, that doesn't give you the experience required to know how to react or the ability to do it quickly.


, I have held the tombs 2 times, both times with a group of friends.You can't really compare PUGs to friend groups. PUGs are generally crappy, no matter what rank they are.


Rank is also a vicious cycle, those who do not have rank can not gain rank, as those with rank say that they are unfamiliar with HA, and in order to get familiarity they need to join groups, in order to join groups they need rank...This is pure bull****, sorry. Everytime I go into tombs I see unranked groups forming, and EVERYONE has the ability to form their own groups. The problem is, most newcomers do nothing but spam "LFG" and QQ about not being able to find groups. If unranked players spent more time making friends and forming groups, instead of QQing on forums, they'd be ranked in no time.

Djinn Effer
26-11-2006, 11:46
This is pure bull****, sorry. Everytime I go into tombs I see unranked groups forming, and EVERYONE has the ability to form their own groups. The problem is, most newcomers do nothing but spam "LFG" and QQ about not being able to find groups. If unranked players spent more time making friends and forming groups, instead of QQing on forums, they'd be ranked in no time.

QFT ^^ lol...

Tiyuri
27-11-2006, 01:25
dpdpdpdpdpdpd, what's your in game name?

ImSoToast
27-11-2006, 01:41
No. You were lucky. A r3 only team who took one lower than them more than likely is a kinder one, and more wise-ish. A person who allows others to learn is more skilled than one that does not. You can join r3 and most will be like the 0-2 you have already found, rank elitism is not right because, more than likely, they have little knowledge more than you that can't be found in any PvP or a forum, I have held the tombs 2 times, both times with a group of friends. Rank is also a vicious cycle, those who do not have rank can not gain rank, as those with rank say that they are unfamiliar with HA, and in order to get familiarity they need to join groups, in order to join groups they need rank...

Yo man very sorry but you totally contradict yourself with your last sentence. How can some1 who is r3 not be familiar with Ha maps, wtf they ebay their acount. Im not gonna single you out, but even I learned that if you want to post in these forums and converse you gotta at least try to sound/write understandibly. I could barely understand what you wrote with soo many contradictions in it.

Okya fine we all confess we all got our ranking trhough a secret LFG filter that only us are aware of, honestly.

Really I pugged my way to r5 with unbelievably no iway, I f'n sucked at it tried once will never try again.
Lots of people that I met in game and talked to on vent and ts and complained about groups. They were the problem. How many new players don't even wanna be bothered with vent or ts? How many players wanna join a group, not say a word and EXPECT to take halls by themselves. The rest of the teams is for "support" and decorations.

If you are having such a problem getting into groups, first evaluate your attitude and approach than the actual system.

I'm not saying this is you or any1 on these forums, but my experience shows me lots of complainers are the problem themselves, not anything in HA.

God one guy in our group got mad and argued with us because he was a sword warrior who brough two hammer skills, thats right he was a sword hammer warrior. Not gonna tell any1 how to play the game, but he did join our group, which we were specifically looking for a shock warrior. He didn't have shock and was using mainly sword with 3 sword skills, 2 hammer skills rest I don't remeber. He didn't even wanna discuss why this isn't the best of ideas and argued with us how this owned in ra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really what else can I say!

Djinn Effer
27-11-2006, 02:30
Okya fine we all confess we all got our ranking trhough a secret LFG filter that only us are aware of, honestly.

zomg!!! shhh!!! don't tell the n000bs our secret way of getting rank! its all ruined now.. noooooo :o!

scamPOR
27-11-2006, 06:47
I formed my own groups to ~r6. Formed a guild and played with them till r9 and pugged / f listed my way to 10. 11 is still ~2k fame away and I generally pass on the really abusive builds. Except spirit spam which I wasn't playing for so I had no choice about :P

Rank 0-3 sucked. Around r0.5 I realized pugs all suck period and started making my own and kicking people who were obviously retarded (not new but morons or disruptive) and built up a friends list. I don't consider r9 people to be necessarily better but having had a few lower ranked people be unable to find the main altar in hoh (btw wtf???) and lose us matches I tend to play with players I know or their friends.

Phoenixtech
27-11-2006, 08:24
To the OP. Why in the world did you NOT put the people you did well with on your flist? HA is ALL about connections.

ddpddpddp
27-11-2006, 12:45
To the OP. Why in the world did you NOT put the people you did well with on your flist? HA is ALL about connections.

I always ask if i can add people to my friends list if we do well as a team, i even have a couple of those higher ranked peeps on my list, but they arent really interested in me if they can get a group together of people they play with regularly, and i understand that totally, ive been on a few more decent groups now, been learning a bit, and for the most part im still enjoying it.

im up to rank2 now, 60 fame from rank 3, and my guild has decided to gvg as well twice a week(something i also enjoy) i spend most of my ingame time either in HA or TA, geting faction and unlocking any and all skills i didnt in pve(id rather have them all and not need them, then get kicked from a group for not having something)


dpdpdpdpdpdpd, what's your in game name?

IGN is dailin the hunter, i play alot of ranger builds, always liked the versatality of them, but ive been working on unlocking all mesmer, ele, and necro skills as of late. and yes, in case anyone was wondering, i have jumped on the fotm bandwagon (sf teams mostly)...i know im not going to learn alot doing things this way, and if given the choice of a balanced team or sf, i take balanced every time(usually only to get smoked by an sf team on the first map.....UGH) but im still hopeful that with a couple more ranks, it will be easier to find groups that shy away from fotm builds.

Djinn Effer
27-11-2006, 14:44
IGN is dailin the hunter

Next time I tomb I'll invite you if possible. Generally go on ~150 fame runs non-holding.

Alleji
27-11-2006, 23:35
To the OP: was that great r3+ group a guild by any chance? Sounds like it. tbh, I wouldn't expect a huge difference between a r3 pug and a r0 pug... I certainly didn't see one back when I was starting out.


I could join r9 groups on a r0 account simply by not sounding like an idiot when I pmed the group leader.Heh. I find it kinda amusing that if you PM a r9 group that you'll take X spot, they'll most likely invite you or give you vent info. If you PM a low-ranked group (3-6) with the same message, the reply will probably be "rank?" Perhaps r9 groups actually value the precise rank less and instead rely on the message itself "R9+ group LF X and Y" to be enough of a deterrent to low-ranked players messaging them in fear that they'll screw up.

But then I haven't pugged for ages, so I don't even know if that still holds true. Just something I noticed "back in the day".

Djinn Effer
28-11-2006, 00:15
Heh. I find it kinda amusing that if you PM a r9 group that you'll take X spot, they'll most likely invite you or give you vent info. If you PM a low-ranked group (3-6) with the same message, the reply will probably be "rank?" Perhaps r9 groups actually value the precise rank less and instead rely on the message itself "R9+ group LF X and Y" to be enough of a deterrent to low-ranked players messaging them in fear that they'll screw up.

But then I haven't pugged for ages, so I don't even know if that still holds true. Just something I noticed "back in the day".

It was still true directly before the 6v6 implimention; though, I'm unsure if it is now as I haven't joined a pick up since then. One can logically assume, that it would still be the same though.

Loq
01-12-2006, 00:45
in 7 days my total earned fame? 47 :( . i knew it would be tough to get those first few ranks, thats the idea, to learn as u go so u are not a liability to higher ranked players. little did i realize what the differences in ranks can truly be. god willing ill be rank3 by christmas, hopefully that will help get me into better groups, but for every decent group i get, i get 100 groups that arent even trying to understand the game, that are just there to farm fame, and get a nifty emote

so when the time comes for me to help some low ranked person, will i do it?? probably, but it will be the exception, not the rule. that may not be the best thing to do, but if having a high rank filters out even half of these types of people, ill consider it time well spent.

and now, on to rank2................

47 fame in 1 week!!!! Dam HA is so easy this days LOL. I think it took me 3 weeks to get 47 fame in the old days! 14 months ago LOL.

Kid, I'm going to tell you the same advice that I tell to all newbie pvp players, the key to enjoy pvp in GW is not farme ranking! it is not about the builds! it is not about the skills!

IT is all about make friends and a community! Use your friend list and play with the same players again and again thats the best way to enjoy this game, eventualy you will notice you will get fame faster and faster, but most importantly you will have more fun with friends than with pugs pvping!

Djinn Effer
01-12-2006, 02:11
47 fame in 1 week!!!! Dam HA is so easy this days LOL. I think it took me 3 weeks to get 47 fame in the old days! 14 months ago LOL.

Kid, I'm going to tell you the same advice that I tell to all newbie pvp players, the key to enjoy pvp in GW is not farme ranking! it is not about the builds! it is not about the skills!

IT is all about make friends and a community! Use your friend list and play with the same players again and again thats the best way to enjoy this game, eventualy you will notice you will get fame faster and faster, but most importantly you will have more fun with friends than with pugs pvping!

tbh I wouldn't tomb if I couldn't get atleast 47 fame in a day. x.x"

Loq
01-12-2006, 11:54
tbh I wouldn't tomb if I couldn't get atleast 47 fame in a day. x.x"

tbh???? what the hell does that mean, I'm too old kid for that encrypted language :cool: .

I still remember when there was no GW TV and you couldnt copy/paste builds, I use to get 3-4 fame a week just by testing new builds ect...

I used to have a lot of fun in the french HA district because you never find blood spikes or IWAYs or any other cooki custer build, I allways found balanced and weird builds to play!!! Now pff everybody play the same crap pity what happen to HA.

I used to love to monk, well at least they havent fuccckk up GvG too badly yet, still playable.

Djinn Effer
01-12-2006, 14:16
tbh???? what the hell does that mean, I'm too old kid for that encrypted language :cool: .

I still remember when there was no GW TV and you couldnt copy/paste builds, I use to get 3-4 fame a week just by testing new builds ect...

I used to have a lot of fun in the french HA district because you never find blood spikes or IWAYs or any other cooki custer build, I allways found balanced and weird builds to play!!! Now pff everybody play the same crap pity what happen to HA.

I used to love to monk, well at least they havent fuccckk up GvG too badly yet, still playable.

tbh = To be honest.

Yeah um.. before gw tv I was still making no less than 30 fame a run. Even made 2k in one run once...

Hag E Nees
06-12-2006, 13:57
I started HA about a week ago... properly playing HA that is. I've been in before that, but came out with nothing simply cause it wasn't really my thing (or so I thought)...

What I've noticed is that as long as you act mature, got a little bit of knowledge and play a decent game it doesn't really matter what rank you have to find a pretty decent group. You play with people that are not too bad, they see you're not too bad... you remember eachother and before you know it you're in a team together the night after...

Another thing I've noticed is the difference in groups per district. English districts are quite rubbish compared to the International districts. So swap districts and see if there's anybody in the other districts that's looking for someone like you.

I'm now rank 3 and just playing my game... and yes, it has become easier to find teams... but I still can't say I've ever had a real problem finding teams, even when I didn't have fame.

Mother Crone
06-12-2006, 20:23
so after deciding that pve had become to boring, i decided to focus more on gvg and HA. I spent a couple nights looking for a group in heroes ascent, becoming frustrated with the fact that finding a team that will take rank0 is next to impossible(i wont take heroes, but thats another debate all together). finally, a rank3 group took pity on me and let me join there group, at this point i was just mad at the fact that it had taken so long to find a group, and i didnt really care what rank they were. the group was very friendly with me, i made mistakes, they stayed calm and gave me advice on my builds, the maps ect..never once were they rude, and i managed to make 30 fame that night. i came out of that night with basic knowlege of the maps, and was ready to apply that little bit of knowlege the next time i went into HA.


the next night however, i went into HA and was instantly invited to a random PUG all rank0-2, im hardly in a place to dicriminate, being a freshly minted rank1 and all, so i agree to hang with them for a couple hours, as we try out some builds........the builds were not the problem, players were all over the place, nobody called targets, or even worse, 3 people called targets at the same time. over and over again we did the same map learning nothing about anything except how to die, and i already knew how to do that. i chalked it up to a bad night and went to bed.


its been 1 week since that night, and its like im a magnet for the worst players in gw history, between the ragequitters who quit if we dont get 10% morale boost every time, or the imfamous team full of leaders who cant choose a target. even using ts/vent is a hassle, as u get 4 people yelling and screaming at u to do this and that, then getting mad at u because u couldnt take 3 monks singlehandedly. and dont forget my favourite type of group, the group that pees themselves when they see their opponent is in a rank 993 guild, then quit in fear...only for me to see a heroway group come running at me.

in 7 days my total earned fame? 47 :( . i knew it would be tough to get those first few ranks, thats the idea, to learn as u go so u are not a liability to higher ranked players. little did i realize what the differences in ranks can truly be. god willing ill be rank3 by christmas, hopefully that will help get me into better groups, but for every decent group i get, i get 100 groups that arent even trying to understand the game, that are just there to farm fame, and get a nifty emote

so when the time comes for me to help some low ranked person, will i do it?? probably, but it will be the exception, not the rule. that may not be the best thing to do, but if having a high rank filters out even half of these types of people, ill consider it time well spent.

and now, on to rank2................

I just wanted to thank you for that post. That was probably the most well thought out and encouraging posts I've read in quite sometime from a new HA player. I hope new HA players read this and it encourages them to try Cooperative play instead of Heroway. It (PvP) really is a completely different game when played with other players.

With that said, what little advice I can give; as it seems you've already got most of the basics down. Look for an active PvP Guild to join. Even if they are spamming they want R6++ tell them you are new, however you are very interested in HA/GvG or Both. A good recruiter would probably give your request some consideration if he/she knows you are dedicated and willing to learn.

Cheers,

Crone

Loq
08-12-2006, 00:57
tbh = To be honest.

Yeah um.. before gw tv I was still making no less than 30 fame a run. Even made 2k in one run once...

Good for you that you have so much time, but the normal players don't have that many hours to spend on a video game.

I pretty much play only GW now, thats how much I like it, but I still only play 1h a day and sometimes 2h max, I have more important things to do.

Anyway botton line, it was harder to play in a good grp in HA before, now you can pretty "duosolo" HA!! it is like a farming place for FAME LOL.

Really HA is not what it used to be, it is a nice big Underworld/fissure place now. I lost allready 10-15 of my regulars friends from HA, they just quit HA = quit GW once they finished pve in Nighfall.

Rank is losing it value faster and faster this days. I mean a rank 6 monk is not that viable as it was 4 months ago.

I think 6v6 is fine, but Anet needs to balance the game and pretty much stop the hero usage in HA. FFS team arena and alliance battles are free of heros so why HA must have heros?

Or keep the heros and change the maps, with 6v6 we have some of the most boring maps to play in HA and annoying also, I hate 3FFA, it was great when you only had 2 3FFA maps at the end.

6v6 will be fine when Anet balance the game and nerf all the unbalanced builds, also may be GW TV should be nerved in a way you can't see all the dam builds.

IMO the beauty of GW is the possibility of making soo many different builds combination, but with GW TV + the lack of balance in the builds it is hard to keep GW creativity alive.

Look even GvG is having this problem, 2 pet furys + 3 necro build dominates 50%+ of the builds, Anet balance the game stop expanding it pls.

At the end of the day GW is a great game because of the community you can create around it. I made a lot of friends with this game, I know loads of people, but if they stop playing the game I will stop soon. I had a 30-40 regular friends, now it is only around 20 people and keeps skrinking.

Djinn Effer
08-12-2006, 08:29
quit HA = quit GW once they finished pve in Nighfall

Speaking of which, when I get a tiger on my only account without one I'll be quiting and going back to the game I played before GW, cause it has what I like in a game.... Community, it has the best community of anywhere I've ever played..

If I actually tried hard I could have it from the time I start to get it in ah.. a week, easy. I'm really starting to get back into my old game though now so I don't so much know that I care at all. But eh, may as well get the last 1k on that account while its easy farming bots.

Loq
08-12-2006, 11:54
Speaking of which, when I get a tiger on my only account without one I'll be quiting and going back to the game I played before GW, cause it has what I like in a game.... Community, it has the best community of anywhere I've ever played..

If I actually tried hard I could have it from the time I start to get it in ah.. a week, easy. I'm really starting to get back into my old game though now so I don't so much know that I care at all. But eh, may as well get the last 1k on that account while its easy farming bots.

heheheh at least put the name of that game! I used to play WC3 and Sacrifice same reasons as GW = friends and community, but I dislike WC3 players, they are too youngh for me and annoying.

In GW, the european community is quite old around 20-30 years old average that makes a change to the annoying 12 years old from blizzard.

Djinn Effer
08-12-2006, 13:47
heheheh at least put the name of that game! I used to play WC3 and Sacrifice same reasons as GW = friends and community, but I dislike WC3 players, they are too youngh for me and annoying.

In GW, the european community is quite old around 20-30 years old average that makes a change to the annoying 12 years old from blizzard.

There (http://www.there.com/). I beta tested it back in '02 & '03, its kinda like the sims... Except you can't exactly have a job and theres no real goal to the game.. Thats what makes it entirely about community, you meet and socialize with people or pretty much do nothing lol. You can buy cloths and stuff, if you buy money from the game makers, you can actually submit cloths or other things like vehicles n such for a certain in-game fee, which you'd obviously have to pay for with rl money, back when I started playing basic membership costed monthly and features costed more, good features costed even more. Now they have nearly everything for free except very rare things cause most everyone left for "better" games and whatnot.

So yeah, I went back late the night before last after a lot of saki, wich that was fun LOL.. Anyways, I found out a lot of my old friends still played! So, I got on today and found out even more played and it was the most fun I've had on a game in years. (Basically since I quit the game ages ago.)

But yeah, I was a clothing designer on that game. I think I'm going to be going back, its pretty fun... Oh oh, and the community all used to be mid 20's and up. There were a lot of 40, 50, 60 yr olds that played and it was awesome! Actual Cg-Arists played and designed vehicles, so I got a long with everyone cause everyone was nice and mature. Very nice. When I came back, since everything was completely free (mostly) theres a lot of little prepubescent teens now, but I can completely avoid them for the most part so thats not a big deal.

Oh, and the big thing between this and most other games out there, is the population is like 90% girls rather than guys! (Probably contributes to the maturity haha!) They have it so you can talk with a mic wherever too, so its fairly obvious that atleast 85%/90% are actually girls and not guys on girl tons. Though probably 2-3% of those are probably still girls that just don't have mics at the time for whatever reason, such as myself a lot of the time traveling with laptops, hard to have a mic like that. But yeah... Its pretty much awesome, though I guess its kind of a girly game so most of you probably wouldn't like it too much. :heart:

Oh and erm yah.. Rank Elitism.. 'how bout that. I'm sooo on topic here. ROFL

ZiegDivine
09-12-2006, 20:00
So ... you play a game to socialize? uh ... huh. Is it too hard to just walk outside and do the same? /shakeshead.

Yea, rank elitism ... it's da bomb.

Wuzzman
09-12-2006, 23:03
actually the lower ranked kids are..pugging lol. There are builds that are super easy to play and thus can be done better with a people...even pug people. Their is no shortage of players to pug with, the same noobs that were forming noobway 3 months ago are the same noobs trying to enter your group as a wammo now. Heroway has changed nothing.

Djinn Effer
10-12-2006, 09:46
So ... you play a game to socialize? uh ... huh. Is it too hard to just walk outside and do the same? /shakeshead.

Yea, rank elitism ... it's da bomb.

Who's to say you can't do both? >.>

mrankh
11-12-2006, 00:22
People still play HA? why... how boring... HA is dead to me and will be until well, good players come back to it.

Inureface
12-12-2006, 03:06
I guess you could think of rank elitism almost like getting armor infused. Its supposed to be a hard trial to move you from the noob bracket to the experienced. Just like you won't survive the last few prophecies missions without infusion, same with HA, you won't get anywhere without rank =( . Sadly for me, I have no way of proving that I'm not a fool who brought his farming build with him. So right now I'm working on a glad title since I love team arena more than HA and come on, besides the little bambi emote, r1 glad>r3 hero and r2 glad = leetness without farming points forever like r6

Another Fess
12-12-2006, 08:21
I suppose: the Gladiator rank is your recommendation for other people, coz it says:"I know how to play". So you can learn any build you need.And you know about teamwork, how to follow commands, how to command maybe.
And you can be usefull for anyone who wants to win HoH or at least some fame.

Djinn Effer
12-12-2006, 08:53
I guess you could think of rank elitism almost like getting armor infused. Its supposed to be a hard trial to move you from the noob bracket to the experienced. Just like you won't survive the last few prophecies missions without infusion, same with HA, you won't get anywhere without rank =( . Sadly for me, I have no way of proving that I'm not a fool who brought his farming build with him. So right now I'm working on a glad title since I love team arena more than HA and come on, besides the little bambi emote, r1 glad>r3 hero and r2 glad = leetness without farming points forever like r6

Actually no, if someone came up to me with a r12 gladiator title and said they were good at tombs I'd laugh at them... If you want to play tombs then play tombs, if all you really want to do is random or team arena then I don't suppose you need to worry about HA emotes.

Tristan Chapin
16-12-2006, 05:03
Actually no, if someone came up to me with a r12 gladiator title and said they were good at tombs I'd laugh at them... If you want to play tombs then play tombs, if all you really want to do is random or team arena then I don't suppose you need to worry about HA emotes.
Yes... I was quite a hand in RA and TA before I moved on over to tombs. Basically had to relearn the game though.

richo
29-12-2006, 13:48
Actually no, if someone came up to me with a r12 gladiator title and said they were good at tombs I'd laugh at them... If you want to play tombs then play tombs, if all you really want to do is random or team arena then I don't suppose you need to worry about HA emotes.

i actualy trust a r9 glad more then a r9 ha player tbh:huh:

Ranger Nietzsche
02-01-2007, 09:20
well if you prefer a r9 glad to a r9 HA when you're playing HA thats foolish.

4 man builds are very different than 6 man builds and require different knowledge of play

not to mention the maps

a r9 glad might not even know what an altar is.

Monsignor Baku
02-01-2007, 09:21
I think rank in HA means only how much you play in it and nothing else..
I'm r6 HA ( near r2 glad ), and i play only the profession i know ( monk 16 months or n/m ) but i see many people r6 playing very bad ( i think beucase they never played some prefessione ) or r0 people playing very well.. Poeple of lower rank listen and follow the "directives" you tell them in TS or vent, don't quit at first defeat and want learn to play well.. This is because when i join a team i don't ask them what rank they are.

Metafrank
02-01-2007, 10:51
You can grind your glad point just like you can grind your fame.
I don't see the resemblence that seems to be obvious for everyone else... please help me.

Advalorem
09-01-2007, 23:24
The difference in holding power between two R6 monks and two R3 monks is, in my experience, incredible.

Maybe some people 'grind' their R3-6 titles playing SF, nukes, blood spikes, vimways, whatever. They're normally easy to spot and weed out of the team. Play with players who've earned their titles, and the difference between the ranks is quite easy to spot.

I don't mind playing with R3 people. Sometimes I choose to play in higher groups, sometimes I choose not to. But that's not rank elitism - I certainly wouldn't play in an R9 group. It's just too high for me, and people expect too much. Simply put, at R6 as I am, I am not good enough to play in R9 groups. The difference is certainly there, and I have nothing against people who want to play with others of their standard.

windcaller
10-01-2007, 11:57
TBH i took and stood in HoH more often with unranked than with ranked. IMO rank means very little to nothing.

That's becoz some high ranked usually forget where they first started and tend to believe they were born r12. That's just sad.

Ayame ftw
10-01-2007, 13:08
ill trust my life to r9 gladiator monks, monk in ta is not easy

DarkZeal
10-01-2007, 14:05
Except every 9 out of 10 high R Glads are griefers in RA.

windcaller
10-01-2007, 18:40
Except every 9 out of 10 high R Glads are griefers in RA.

Who rage quit if they don't have 2 monks in their party.

Drec Sutal
10-01-2007, 21:44
Getting the first couple ranks does kinda suck, in HA, but at least you can see why people would do such a thing.

Having a single player less then rank 3 in a r3+ group usually doesn't make much of a difference, but if you'd gotten beyond the first two or three maps you'd quickly see that even more problems then those you mentioned pop up in groups with mostly unranked people.

The biggest thing is that HA after the first 2-3 maps isn't deathmatch. There is an objective and killing the other team is often irrelevant... but try telling that to someone who's never won on said map, much what against an evenly matched team. For example, even most r3+ teams fail on relic runs if their build isn't much better then a r6 or r9 team. The reason is simple - there is no tie. If nobody caps a relic both teams lose, but once one team captures one, there *will* be a winner. Ties after 0-0 go to the last team to cap... so it often is a good idea to hold a relic until the last possible second once you don't have time to get another. To do that you'll also have to keep your ghost alive after two minutes, and try to keep the other team from doing the same. A strategy to do that is nearly impossible to work out even on vent, in the time given for the match - you'll have to know what to do beforehand.

So in the end rank discrimination isn't good for people of low rank, but there really are reasons for it. Of course if all the victory conditions change this weekend...

Lord Natural
11-01-2007, 19:28
TBH i took and stood in HoH more often with unranked than with ranked. IMO rank means very little to nothing.

That's becoz some high ranked usually forget where they first started and tend to believe they were born r12. That's just sad.

It's easy to get to hoh unranked. Heck, if you play at certain times of day you can skip right from the zaishen to hoh.

Rank is not a definite measure of a player's skill, but it is a rough indication of his/her HA experience. Take 2 teams with identical builds, 1 r9 team and 1 unranked team, put them on a relic run, and I guarantee you the r9 team will win well over 90% of the time.

Some exceptions can be made for guild or friend groups, who play together daily and know the build/each other very well. But on an individual level, I can tell you that I learned a lot as I progressed through the ranks and my ability to analyze an opposing team or a map situation back when I started, does not come close to where it is now. I'd assume this is also the case for (most) other ranked players. That's not elitism, it's just fact. I don't strut into DoA (having never done it), and presume to tell the level 8 lightbringers how to run their DoA groups.

windcaller
11-01-2007, 19:42
It is a logical fact that rank means playing more in HA and gaining some experience with those maps. If you're r10 that doesn't necessarily mean you can own a GvG battle or that you can show off in PvE with your 'leet skillz'.

I recently met a r10 monk who took hh and mending in one of the nf missions. I told him he needs to revise his build. He told me 'taste my rank noob'. i was like 'heellloooo iway!!!'. He left. How leet is that o.O

Lord Natural
11-01-2007, 20:20
It is a logical fact that rank means playing more in HA and gaining some experience with those maps.

Then rank does mean something after all.


If you're r10 that doesn't necessarily mean you can own a GvG battle or that you can show off in PvE with your 'leet skillz'.

True, though many top 20 guilds (not all) have numerous rank 9-12 players. As far as PvE goes, rank doesn't translate, though if I see a ranked player lfg I'm more inclined to trust him because chances are he's at least somewhat of a dedicated/experienced player, rather than a casual user who maybe plays for an hour on weekends. This topic is about forming HA groups though.


I recently met a r10 monk who took hh and mending in one of the nf missions. I told him he needs to revise his build. He told me 'taste my rank noob'. i was like 'heellloooo iway!!!'. He left. How leet is that o.O

Anyone who's spent that many hours in organized pvp should know the overall value of skills, even if he/she doesn't pve much. If someone is going around spouting "taste my rank noob", it's just a testament to their lack of maturity, and isn't a good representation of ranked players in general. I've been in missions where people go around drawing penises on the radar. I don't associate this behavior with all pve'ers.

Wuzzman
11-01-2007, 23:03
Then rank does mean something after all.



True, though many top 20 guilds (not all) have numerous rank 9-12 players. As far as PvE goes, rank doesn't translate, though if I see a ranked player lfg I'm more inclined to trust him because chances are he's at least somewhat of a dedicated/experienced player, rather than a casual user who maybe plays for an hour on weekends. This topic is about forming HA groups though.



Anyone who's spent that many hours in organized pvp should know the overall value of skills, even if he/she doesn't pve much. If someone is going around spouting "taste my rank noob", it's just a testament to their lack of maturity, and isn't a good representation of ranked players in general. I've been in missions where people go around drawing penises on the radar. I don't associate this behavior with all pve'ers.

lol I would.

Alleji
13-01-2007, 19:03
Who rage quit if they don't have 2 monks in their party.2 monks in an RA party is bad, first of all. That's why one of the monks often leaves when he sees another monk. Sometimes they both leave at the same time, which kinda sucks, but it's funny at the same time.

So, what was my point? Oh, yeah, I "ragequit" RA teams if they don't have a monk. Although I prefer to use the term "save time" instead of "ragequit". I don't usually leave at the start of the fight, I leave when I see that the team's chances of getting a glad point are close to zero.

1) If the team is something like A/R, A/E, E/D and Me/E (myself), I leave instantly. If I see one of my teammates use mending, firestorm, bane signet, or another completely horrible skill, I leave. These teams have no chance of winning and I'm saving myself and the three other people time by forcing them to re-enter sooner. I used to try to explain why firestorm or bane signet are bad before I left, but most people would just spam "noob" at me, so I gave up on that.

2) If the team looks good (a monk is almost a pre-requisite for this, but not quite), such as Thumper, Rit spammer, Reaper's Mark necro and Bsurge Mes (me), I'll play out the fight till the end and see how we did without a monk, also factoring the opposing team's strength into account. If we rolled a decent-looking team in 2 minutes, that means we have a good chance for a glad point and I'm staying. If we rolled a team like I described in 1) in 2 minutes, that doesn't mean much, but I'll stay another fight to see how we do against a good team. If we have deaths against a team like in 1), I'll leave at the end of the fight. They'll be better off if they get a monk instead of me. I'm saving myself time and giving my team a better chance for a glad point.


I recently met a r10 monk who took hh and mending in one of the nf missions. I told him he needs to revise his build. He told me 'taste my rank noob'. i was like 'heellloooo iway!!!'. He left. How leet is that o.OHe was probably just screwing around. Even an IWAYer would know that mending is bad. I'd still take him, because I'd trust a r10 monk with 4 skills on his bar (or, in this case, 7) more than a sunspear general with 8. Also, I wouldn't say something stupid like "taste my rank, noob". :P

And HH is an amazing skill. Shield of Absorption kinda fills HH's niche today, but HH is still great.

~r10, although I don't monk very often. :P

MasterNightfall
13-01-2007, 20:57
And HH is an amazing skill. Shield of Absorption kinda fills HH's niche today, but HH is still great.


Coming from someone who ragequits when he rolls a Me/E on his team, oh...

I leave it up to the rest of us here to fill in the details.

windcaller
14-01-2007, 08:06
2 monks in an RA party is bad, first of all.



2 monks and 2 assassins have a great chance of winning more than 10 matches. Go figure why.




And HH is an amazing skill. Shield of Absorption kinda fills HH's niche today, but HH is still great.


HH was a bad skill for monk. And still is. I Could easily fill my bar with smthn else. WoH anyone?



~r10, although I don't monk very often. :P

And at r10 you'd consider a ranked person being good in every aspect of the game. How limited is that?

Oh and you 'save time'? You could save time by going to TA and getting yourself a decent team. That would 'save time'.

Don't know about others but i go to RA when i have nothing else to do or when i need faction for certain unlocks.


If the team is something like A/R, A/E, E/D and Me/E (myself), I leave instantly.

Do you even know the spike potential of this teambuild? If the assassins go on one target and you and the ele on another you have 2 instant kills. The enemy monk doesn't stand a chance.

After all you wrote, i go back to my opinion that rank doesn't necessarily mean much. I fact, if i generalize after what i just read, i'd say rank = nothing.

But i like to believe i'm not that narrow-minded...

Ranger Nietzsche
14-01-2007, 10:30
if your honest in saying rank = nothing

then if you had to choose between a r13 monk and a r0 monk for an HA group you would choose the r0 as often as the r13.


now im generalizing here....but than again so did you



and as for HH i bet if i check our build depository i can find a perfectly good HA build that involves HH

Wuzzman
14-01-2007, 16:19
2 monks in an RA party is bad, first of all. That's why one of the monks often leaves when he sees another monk. Sometimes they both leave at the same time, which kinda sucks, but it's funny at the same time.

So, what was my point? Oh, yeah, I "ragequit" RA teams if they don't have a monk. Although I prefer to use the term "save time" instead of "ragequit". I don't usually leave at the start of the fight, I leave when I see that the team's chances of getting a glad point are close to zero.

1) If the team is something like A/R, A/E, E/D and Me/E (myself), I leave instantly. If I see one of my teammates use mending, firestorm, bane signet, or another completely horrible skill, I leave. These teams have no chance of winning and I'm saving myself and the three other people time by forcing them to re-enter sooner. I used to try to explain why firestorm or bane signet are bad before I left, but most people would just spam "noob" at me, so I gave up on that.

2) If the team looks good (a monk is almost a pre-requisite for this, but not quite), such as Thumper, Rit spammer, Reaper's Mark necro and Bsurge Mes (me), I'll play out the fight till the end and see how we did without a monk, also factoring the opposing team's strength into account. If we rolled a decent-looking team in 2 minutes, that means we have a good chance for a glad point and I'm staying. If we rolled a team like I described in 1) in 2 minutes, that doesn't mean much, but I'll stay another fight to see how we do against a good team. If we have deaths against a team like in 1), I'll leave at the end of the fight. They'll be better off if they get a monk instead of me. I'm saving myself time and giving my team a better chance for a glad point.

He was probably just screwing around. Even an IWAYer would know that mending is bad. I'd still take him, because I'd trust a r10 monk with 4 skills on his bar (or, in this case, 7) more than a sunspear general with 8. Also, I wouldn't say something stupid like "taste my rank, noob". :P

And HH is an amazing skill. Shield of Absorption kinda fills HH's niche today, but HH is still great.

~r10, although I don't monk very often. :P


I waited too long to reply to this one. so...where do I begin....Awww I remember.

Your an ***. Thats a nice little page you got their explaining why your not an ***. But your still an ***. Let me explain. Your no better than a person who leaves if they see no monk in RA. Any attempt to get a group that is "alright" in your mind makes you a leaver. That means leaving because you see a wammo makes you a leaver. Leaving because you see any profession with a secondary or skill you don't like makes you a leaver. You can not justify that. You can not come into random arena leave instantly because the set up isn't the way you like it and not be an ***. Its not possible, and to say that "well if they run the hottest build in the metagame right now, sure I wouldn't leave even if they have no monk" doesn't make you any less of an *** then the person who sees no monks and leave. Geez its random arena, which means players will run wammos, will experiment with builds, and you WILL not like it 90% of the time. Don't put yourself any higher then the person who leaves because they don't know the defination of random arena. Sure I leave too, but guess what? I'm no better then the person who leaves when he discovers his group doesn't have 2 monks and neither are you.

B Ephekt
14-01-2007, 17:43
HH was a bad skill for monk. And still is. I Could easily fill my bar with smthn else. WoH anyone?This comment is hilarious, and leads me to believe that rank does mean something (pvp experiene). HH was always a good skill if you were running a healer that didn't have an elite that was set in stone. During the smite days I ran a HH infuser which worked great, and have run it with Heal Other instead of WoH in builds that had a lot of defence or outside energy management. (Although generally channeling and Power Drain would be enough to fuel Heal Other provided the guy using it isn't terrible.) Granted, HH is an elite with situational uses, but it's far from being a bad skill.


After all you wrote, i go back to my opinion that rank doesn't necessarily mean much. I fact, if i generalize after what i just read, i'd say rank = nothing.My alliance is mostly r10+ with a lot of r11 and 12 players. I'm pretty sure that the average skill level of those players is higher than players with no rank or GvG experience. Experience often means the player in question has learned and developed their skills by doing a lot of pvp. With this in mind it's clearly logical to chose those with experience over those without.

Those complaining that rank means nothing are often low ranked and inexperience themselves, so it's pretty obvious where the rationalizations are stemming from.

Just imo, no offense meant to anyone.

Alleji
15-01-2007, 03:32
Coming from someone who ragequits when he rolls a Me/E on his team, oh...

I leave it up to the rest of us here to fill in the details.I really can't fill in the details.

The professions were just an example to illustrate a build that has no healing and wouldn't survive a fight that lasts longer than two minutes. I'm not dismissing the individual builds, just saying they have no synergy and wouldn't go on a decent streak... and what does me running a Me/E have to do with anything?


HH was a bad skill for monk. And still is. I Could easily fill my bar with smthn else. WoH anyone?
But i like to believe i'm not that narrow-minded...I see something wrong with this.


And at r10 you'd consider a ranked person being good in every aspect of the game. How limited is that?Maybe not every aspect, but a r10 would be better than 95% of the PvE population at PvE. Is that precise enough to explain my opinion? If we're talking about the specific case on monking, I'll up that percentage a notch. Monking in PvP teaches you way, way, way more than in PvE, simply because you're in a tougher environment. Healing Breeze doesn't cut it anymore, "stopping to regen" after a fight doesn't cut it anymore and an endless list of things that lets you get by in PvE doesn't work in PvP. That teaches you which skills are good and which aren't. Moreover, it teaches you to analyze skills and determine which ones are good in a particular scenario.

Let's take a fairly general scenario: PvE. In PvE you're fighting predictable AI which will generally attack whatever aggroed them first. Even if that's not the case, AI doesn't switch targets very often and AI doesn't spike except for very few instances. In other words, AI tends to pressure a single target for extended periods of time. Now, I just analyzed the situation for you, can you tell me which skill is more energy-efficient in PvE: HH or WoH?


Your an ***. Good to know. Got anything to say that I haven't heard before?

Another Fess
15-01-2007, 08:25
originally posted by Ranger Nietzsche
then if you had to choose between a r13 monk and a r0 monk for an HA group you would choose the r0 as often as the r13.

I will ask them: "How long you play monk?"
So, taking r13 or r0 depends on answer (and i think ppls are honest).

windcaller
15-01-2007, 10:08
tbh i met alot of r0 monks that healed way better than r6~7. Monks that played only that proffession since the game came out. They simply didn't find HA appealing.

As an experienced player you can easily tell if the monk in the party is good or not just by exchanging some lines.

Myself, i play around 6hrs during the week days and >10hrs in the weekends, if i have nothing else to do. I played monk for more than 2000hrs and i'm only r4. Why? Because i really don't care about HA. I mostly GvG. For me, GvG is the core of this game, and the part i enjoy the most. And i'm sure i'm not the only one that does this. Some of my guild-mates stopped at r3 because this was their goal for a certain ammount of time.

I met many high-ranked players that were focused on only one proffession. Yes, they were VERY good at it. But don't generalize. A mesmer that focused on his skills and ONLY on those cannot say he's an uber monk.

Hope i made myself clear this time.

Buddah
15-01-2007, 15:06
HH was always a good skill if you were running a healer that didn't have an elite that was set in stone.
Even more true with the altars in HA.

B Ephekt
15-01-2007, 16:38
Myself, i play around 6hrs during the week days and >10hrs in the weekends, if i have nothing else to do. I played monk for more than 2000hrs and i'm only r4. Why? Because i really don't care about HA. I mostly GvG. For me, GvG is the core of this game, and the part i enjoy the most. And i'm sure i'm not the only one that does this. Some of my guild-mates stopped at r3 because this was their goal for a certain ammount of time.GvG experience is certainly valid. I personally play with a lot GvG players; in fact, my guild's core monks are only rank 5 and 6. The issue is that unless you're in a top 50 guild, have trim or have a champ title, there is no way to show your experience.

The thing about rank is that it's easier to set a bottom line when you're having to resort to a PUG than it is to interview every single person that joins. When I'm in tombs I want to go in an play, not play 20 question with a handful of players when I could've just asked for r9+ people and kicked anyone who was bad.

Personally, I'd be willing to play with someone with trim, a decent champ rank or were in a current top 50 guild, regardless of their rank (with exception).

I met many high-ranked players that were focused on only one proffession. Yes, they were VERY good at it. But don't generalize. A mesmer that focused on his skills and ONLY on those cannot say he's an uber monk.It's pretty hard to be an amazing mesmer without understanding how to play a monk. Tbh, people who can only play one profession are generally bad at the game.

windcaller
16-01-2007, 13:13
Tbh, people who can only play one profession are generally bad at the game.

i never played warr but can easily beat one. And, IMO, spreading over all the proffessions can't get you to be perfect in none. That's why you have specializations IRL too :)

Ranger Nietzsche
16-01-2007, 18:42
Ephekt is probably right... cuz he's pugged more than anyone in history.

B Ephekt
16-01-2007, 20:05
Nah, I'm pretty sure Brian pugged more than me. :smiley: When there were no guild groups going I flisted most of the time.

How you guys doing btw?



Anyway my point was that after a certain point a player should be familiar with enough professions to be good at them. Knowledge of certain professions play off each other as well, like mesmer and monk or ranger and monk. For instance, playing a mesmer will help you become a better monk by allowing you to fight that battle from both sides.

windcaller
17-01-2007, 12:46
How you guys doing btw?

I'm guidless atm...and i certainly won't PuG.




Anyway my point was that after a certain point a player should be familiar with enough professions to be good at them. Knowledge of certain professions play off each other as well, like mesmer and monk or ranger and monk. For instance, playing a mesmer will help you become a better monk by allowing you to fight that battle from both sides.

That's true :)

Scyfer
17-01-2007, 14:44
Coming from someone who ragequits when he rolls a Me/E on his team, oh...


Awesome reading skills, yet again!! The poster was the Mesmer.


---

And re: PvE monking:
I wouldn't take a r10 over a r8 sunspear general by default - in fact likely the other way around. I'd probably be wondering why that rank is displayed and wouldn't want to party with someone, lest he spend half the mission calling other people noobs, spamming his rank emote, showing off his equipment, etc. Reasons to take people: intelligent conversation & consideration for the team. Reasons not to take people: lack of the above. Rank, profession, title, they're all crap when the essential social skills are lacking.

I mean comments like "I would generally pick a r10 monk over a r0 monk in a PvE setting" aren't any better than the complained about rank elitism in HA. I've been in groups with simply horrible warriors with high rank (well 9, somewhat high); different skills for different situations! Yes, they didn't know much about appropriate aggro & wait time and worse, thought their rank meant they were elite and better than the group. F that. Now _that_ is a reason to ragequit as a monk :P



tbh i met alot of r0 monks that healed way better than r6~7. Monks that played only that proffession since the game came out. They simply didn't find HA appealing.


Well put, exactly. Pretty much my situation, except I GvG'd in rank ~90ish guild ages ago for a while. Rank means nothing unless it it specified what character you obtained most of the rank on. Nor does it mean anything outside of that specific situation. And everything's trumped by social skills.

Ranger Nietzsche
17-01-2007, 17:42
i think you guys are missing the point.

citing 1 or 2 rank0 monks that you know who kick *** does NOT mean that rank means nothing or that people shouldn't PUG based on rank.

Also your rank0 monks who are in top 100 GvG guilds DON'T PUG HA so it doesn't matter. If they are in a top 100 GvG guild they HA with guildies or friendlist it.

Rank is best used when PUGing and then it makes perfect sense. And at Ephekt, 치 The Spearmen 치 are doing fine.

drunken fool
21-01-2007, 06:19
so after deciding that pve had become to boring, i decided to focus more on gvg and HA. I spent a couple nights looking for a group in heroes ascent, becoming frustrated with the fact that finding a team that will take rank0 is next to impossible(i wont take heroes, but thats another debate all together). finally, a rank3 group took pity on me and let me join there group, at this point i was just mad at the fact that it had taken so long to find a group, and i didnt really care what rank they were. the group was very friendly with me, i made mistakes, they stayed calm and gave me advice on my builds, the maps ect..never once were they rude, and i managed to make 30 fame that night. i came out of that night with basic knowlege of the maps, and was ready to apply that little bit of knowlege the next time i went into HA.


the next night however, i went into HA and was instantly invited to a random PUG all rank0-2, im hardly in a place to dicriminate, being a freshly minted rank1 and all, so i agree to hang with them for a couple hours, as we try out some builds........the builds were not the problem, players were all over the place, nobody called targets, or even worse, 3 people called targets at the same time. over and over again we did the same map learning nothing about anything except how to die, and i already knew how to do that. i chalked it up to a bad night and went to bed.


its been 1 week since that night, and its like im a magnet for the worst players in gw history, between the ragequitters who quit if we dont get 10% morale boost every time, or the imfamous team full of leaders who cant choose a target. even using ts/vent is a hassle, as u get 4 people yelling and screaming at u to do this and that, then getting mad at u because u couldnt take 3 monks singlehandedly. and dont forget my favourite type of group, the group that pees themselves when they see their opponent is in a rank 993 guild, then quit in fear...only for me to see a heroway group come running at me.

in 7 days my total earned fame? 47 :( . i knew it would be tough to get those first few ranks, thats the idea, to learn as u go so u are not a liability to higher ranked players. little did i realize what the differences in ranks can truly be. god willing ill be rank3 by christmas, hopefully that will help get me into better groups, but for every decent group i get, i get 100 groups that arent even trying to understand the game, that are just there to farm fame, and get a nifty emote

so when the time comes for me to help some low ranked person, will i do it?? probably, but it will be the exception, not the rule. that may not be the best thing to do, but if having a high rank filters out even half of these types of people, ill consider it time well spent.

and now, on to rank2................

ok i know exactly how you feel man. i was lucky however. i got into halls when it was still tombs and there was like MAYBE two or thre tigers in the game at that time so i got into it purley for the love of ha and to monk in the hall of heros meant something back then. but there were days lemme tell ya!

anyhow i fell in love with the game not the fame or rank and to this day even though im in the r 9 + club .. ill play with anyone. any rank. before the whole 6v6 and the new death toll system and crap.. i loved ha. plain and simple i loved to monk in ha.and in my time i was very well known prot monk now i rarley play there because o the pple there. not the maps. or the silly builds. its the people there that turn me off. insulting.. rude kids that think they are leet and flame anyone that thinks differently than them. and then the elitism.