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View Full Version : Of Glint and the Seer (various spoilers)



NameAlreadyInUse
08-12-2006, 20:39
I've seen a lot of posts speculating about Glint and her intentions as well as what knowledge the Seer(s) may have had about the Mursaat and what was really going on behind the scenes with the soul stones. I'd just like to throw my pair of pennies into things here.

Work with me here, then let me know what you think...

Lets say Glint was acting in the best interest of everyone not named Abaddon, and that the Seer was in on it with her. She was, if I recall, the first living creation of the original gods. This would actually mean that she predates Grenth, and possibly other current gods as well, correct?

What if she was in disagreement with the way that the five chose to punish/imprison Abaddon? In her wisdom she sees that he is beaten but not broken and that he will eventually rise again. She understands that if more proactive steps are not taken Abaddon will continue to amass power from within Torment until he is unstopable.

She can not play a direct part in what is to come for whatever reason, but she sets into motion a plan that will eventually force Abaddon's hand before he is ready.

Okay, everyone still with me? I hope so, here we go again...

She creates the Prophecies to set things into motion. The Mursaat were doing a job that needed to be done to maintain the status-quo. Glint knows that the status-quo will only lead to disaster and so enlists the Seer(s) to provide aid in dealing with the Mursaat at least long enough to reach the Door of Kormalie.

Maybe the Seer did not know what was on the other side of the door or what the Mursaat were really doing, but it could also be that they were simply playing dumb to make sure the Flameseeker Prophesies were carried out. After all, if somebody told your character beforehand that the Mursaat were providing a service that held shut a door to Torment, but you have to stop them from doing that in order to prevent something much worse from maybe happening down the road, how would they have acted? (sorry for the ROS there)

As it stands, you rush in, let the door get blown open and then you seal it for good (presumably) after that. In the process you have forced Abaddon to act faster than he probably would have liked, and at the same time you have prevented him from using a very fast and efficient gateway to start his takeover when he is ready.

All this eventually leads to you confronting Abaddon long before he would have liked, he still hasn't even managed to remove his chains when he is met in final battle.

Without Glint pushing things and playing puppet-master from the shadows none of this would have come to pass, and Abaddon would have been free to continue consolidating his power in Torment until he was strong enough to snap his shackles and storm the heavens on his own. She lets the ends justify the means in order to make sure the final fight is not on Abaddon's terms.

You know, or not... Just my take on things.

Quintus Antonius
08-12-2006, 21:22
That seems like a lot of unnecessary scheming to me. It'd make much more sense to work with the Mursaat if she was simply trying to stop Abaddon. I'm not sure what is up with Glint, but I'm not quite convinced she is fully good or fully evil. Glint, the Mursaat, and the Seers are some very big lose ends.

Okay, well here's something else to consider. The Forgotten, who at least in some part serve Glint, know about the Door of Komalie (Khomali as they call it) and what is behind it. Why exactly did Glint want to open that Door when her Forgotten soldiers knew what was behind it?

I personally believe that Glint was just ignorant. Abaddon was the god of knowledge and secrets, he has shown that he works through dreams and visions. It is much more logical that he just manipulated Glint just like everyone else to remove his strongest opposition and jailers so he could break free.

aptaleonII
08-12-2006, 21:41
sure, there were gods that predated our own pantheon, but it is not said glint is the first creation of the original gods, but just that she is the first creation of the gods. i'm sure that refers to the current gods, so glint wouldn't predate grenth or any of the gods i'm afraid.

Sarah Frost
08-12-2006, 21:41
I'm not sure Glint was ignorant so much as blind to the truth... but I agree with QA on this... it was probably Abaddon's way of removing his jailers.

As for the Seers... when we first meet them in the Iron Mines of Moladune mission the Seer says that they (the Seer's race) have been fighting the Mursaat for a long time. Has anyone compaired the Seers to the Margonites to see how close the body forms are? I don't have any good pictures of them to compaire with.

aptaleonII
08-12-2006, 21:45
i think body form should stop being taken as ANY form of evidence. there has so far been no solid example of body form between two races actually meaning they are in some way connected. has anyone ever noticed that dryders and aloe seeds share more than a few traits, while not simply being re-used models?

NameAlreadyInUse
08-12-2006, 22:05
You do make good points there QA.

I was looking at, what you correctly point out to be the convoluted, almost Rube-Goldbergian scheme against the Mursaat to be a move made by somebody who will not or can not interfear on her own.

I can't recall any longer why it was that she had been sequestered within a grain of sand in the first place. I think we're told she hid there, but it could easily have been any other reason that she has spun into the 'truth' that best suits her over the millenia. Maybe she was trapped there by the gods for some transgression against them in the past.

It could also be that she harbors a general resentment of all six of the gods. At least one, possibly all of them came into being after she did. Maybe she felt slighted that these upstarts were placed into power above her.

If that is the case, then her actions could be considerd to serve only her own spiteful spirit (so to speak). After all, by opening the door she sets into motion events that lead directly to Abaddon's attempted escape (he'd have tried sooner or later anyway, but this sped things along). If he succedes in getting out he will seek revenge on the other five. If he is stopped then it will most likely mean his destruction. Either way she gets some measure of revenge on the people she dislikes most in creation.

Think of it as the guy at your office who gets passed over for promotion a handful of times and does nothing butthink of ways to mess with the 'jerks' who leapfrogged him on the org. chart.

You're certainly right about their being a lot of loose ends still hanging from the Prophecies campaign. Maybe some will be cleared up in chapter 4.

Nanashi
08-12-2006, 22:28
I'm not sure Glint was ignorant so much as blind to the truth... but I agree with QA on this... it was probably Abaddon's way of removing his jailers.

As for the Seers... when we first meet them in the Iron Mines of Moladune mission the Seer says that they (the Seer's race) have been fighting the Mursaat for a long time. Has anyone compaired the Seers to the Margonites to see how close the body forms are? I don't have any good pictures of them to compaire with.


They're not related. Look closely at the Seers, they have four arms not two. I have yet to see any Margonites with four arms.

Sarah Frost
08-12-2006, 23:28
Sorry I said "Body Forms"... I was meaning it more about facial features, hands, and such.

And yes I know the Seer has four arms but that doesn't mean that they are not related to the Margonites in some way. Some Margonites have wings while most don't, should we brake the Margonite society into several races instead of the one race that it's supposed to be because of this?

I'm not saying that they are related anyway... just wandering if anyone had really looked at them in that way... as a possiblity.

Nanashi
09-12-2006, 06:30
Sorry I said "Body Forms"... I was meaning it more about facial features, hands, and such.

And yes I know the Seer has four arms but that doesn't mean that they are not related to the Margonites in some way. Some Margonites have wings while most don't, should we brake the Margonite society into several races instead of the one race that it's supposed to be because of this?

I'm not saying that they are related anyway... just wandering if anyone had really looked at them in that way... as a possiblity.

True but the wings are made out of the same essence that composes they're bodies which they all seem to have in common.

It's not the face either. There's two parts to this - One being which they all have 6 eyes ... the other is the fact that if the mask is just that, a mask, then they really don't have a face...

I believe it was stated that the Margonites were humans who worshipped Abaddon to the max. It was them that helped bring the temple of the gods to the Realm of Torment.

Quintus Antonius
09-12-2006, 07:44
Margonite Seers do in fact have four arms.

Anyway, it's been suggested by myself and others in the past that Glint is trapped in the sand grain, not there by choice, and that the Forgotten are actually her jailers, not her servants. They just say that they serve her to prevent you from getting to her, because they know it will ultimately lead to Abaddon's escape. We see the Forgotten utilizing Mursaat armor afterall, yet we have no clue why.

aptaleonII
09-12-2006, 20:49
We see the Forgotten utilizing Mursaat armor afterall, yet we have no clue why. still not proven. only theorised.

Minionman
09-12-2006, 21:22
If the forgotten were trying to prevent you from reaching glint, it doesn't make much sense that they'd show you how to get into the crystal, or why they would allow you to teleport there after ascending.


My guess on Glint is that she is trying to keep the world together, but acts similar to the gods in that she doesn't directly interfere, just offers information and advice to the player characters. She doesn't control the searing (that's the titans and charr, possibly with abaddon magic added), and doesn't control the mursaat, and doesn't have control over Orr, but she does have some future seeing ability, so likely uses this plus communication with the players to save as much of the world as possible with only a tiny amount of intervention.

Quintus Antonius
09-12-2006, 23:15
still not proven. only theorised.

True, but no one has yet to come up with a better explanation as to why they look exactly the same.

NameAlreadyInUse
09-12-2006, 23:23
True, but no one has yet to come up with a better explanation as to why they look exactly the same.

I had always thought the armor was scavenged. The forgotten, at lest those we encounter in Prophecies, seem like nomadic hunter-gatherer types. And, if you're living in as desolate an area as the Crystal Desert you would probably need to let nothing go to waste, even the armor of the dead (if it's good enough for Mad Max, why not for 'snake-men from beyond recorded history').

That doesn't say anything about how those Mursaat were slain, true, but it does offer an explaination that does not involve them working in concert.

Quintus Antonius
10-12-2006, 02:45
How they came by the armor is unknown, I agree, but the fact that there are so many, and the armor themselves are 90% the same as the armor the Mursaat wear, suggests a definite connection.

NameAlreadyInUse
10-12-2006, 14:43
How they came by the armor is unknown, I agree, but the fact that there are so many, and the armor themselves are 90% the same as the armor the Mursaat wear, suggests a definite connection.

I suppose we're straying a bit from topic.... but it makes for an interesting segue.

Anyway, I was thinking about the mursaat armor soem more. The mursaat, as a people, have seemingly devoted their entire existence to preventing anyone from getting to Abaddon, right? What if the reason for this has more to do with history than some kind of global altruism?

We know the Margonites werea human army back before the fall of Abaddon. A human army would have needed a corporeal enemy to fight. Who's to say that enemy was not the Mursaat?

Maybe in the final battle that resulted in the creation of the desolation, boiling off of the Crystal Sea, and fall of Abaddon his followers were not the only humans to be dramaticly transformed. It would seem at least plausable that the cataclysm that turned the margonites into spirit/demons may have also been responsible for transforming the army they were at war with into semi-spirit beings themselves.

It also, unquestionably, would have led to many thousands of fighters on each side dying instantly. Maybe this is the explanation for why the forgotten seem to have access to so much mursaat-style armor.

It does beg the question of why only mursaat armor and not margonite as well, but that could be explained two ways. First, it is possible that in addition to their souls being pulled down to Torment with Abaddon, the bodies of his (and only his) followers were similarly pulled in. Second, the forgoten may have avoided taking up symbols of the army the gods just defeated. Presumably there would have been at least some forgotten there to witness the battle. If they saw what happened to mortals associated with Abaddon they may have just drummed up some pretty deep-seated new societal taboos.

As always, I reserve the right to be totally wrong about any or all of what I just wrote.:smiley:

Santax
11-12-2006, 19:47
Has anyone got the exact transcript of the final cutscene in Dragon's Lair? When she talks about opening the Door of Komalie she seemed rather excited.

Minionman
11-12-2006, 21:05
Here it is from memory. (It is my favorite cutscene, and I've been through Dragon's lair a lot, though it won't be word for word.)


"Your story does not end in the mountains. Your true destiny will lead you to the west, to the Ring of Fire. Seek the flame, for within lies the power to destroy both good, and evil.

I know you have questions, but there are some things you must know, and others that you will discover on your journey. go now, save your friends. they will not last the night."

(I'm unsure about the first sentence with mountains, but the ring of fire reference starts there, and the rest I'm extremely sure is what Glint says)

Forgotten Legend
28-12-2006, 23:30
*SPOILER ALERT*

i am really surprised no one has considered the rift... it is after all, the center of the mists, and according to the prophecies manuscripts, pg 70, the origin of all matter, and that time stand still there.

the realm of torment is inside the rift. Live Forgotten are in the realm of torment. they may have knowledge of how to create the armour they animate, or simply courier it from the rift to the desert as needed. i imagine this is possibe due to that one in the rift can communicate with one outside the rift. (Glint speaks to us after she is dead, we can visit the underworld and other places inside the rift)

the Forgotten serve Glint. Even if she was not herself inside the rift until she died, they could have relayed information from what they saw inside the mists to her regarding the flameseeker prophecies... the timelene says she compiled them, which possibly implies that she gathered them from various sources... ie, the forgotten who were in the rift, where time doesn't move.

now, Glint compiled the prophecies in 272 AE, but Lord Ordran was the first mortal to enter the rift in 851 AE, which would mean, that either the forgotten are IMmortal, or, the rift may allow dialogue between creatures of different times... after all, time does not move forward or backward in the rift.

the rift is the center of all things, all things pass through the rift to reach any other place... this includes time? i would venture yes...

now, does Glint know the whole story? we don't know. but it could be safe to assume she does not, since she only appears in chapter 1 of guild wars. She could merely be an arrogant reporter, telling us a compilation of info the forgotten gathered.

now, considering the four bloodstones of magic and the keystone, and what we have also witnessed concerning extra powerful spells (like the one Vizier Khilbron inadvertently destroyed Orr with, that also transformed him into The Lich) is it possible... that the Rift itself has a will of its own? greater than the 6 gods?

after all, Kormir became a god by absorbing Abaddon's powers. so how did Abaddon and the other 5 become gods? are they the original gods? if they are or aren't, where did the original gods come from?

the answer: the rift made them... which implies intellegience of some level.

(of course, i reserve the right to also be wrong :P but i thought i'd let my mind wander a wee bit. hope yall all don't mind. and, if i posted this in the wrong place, please feel free to move it...)