Why doesn't anyone use...

[Ace Bear]

Life Sheath?

Its a viable skill, can stop alot of high damage from killing someone. Even with prot at 10 it stops 118. Not neccesarily fast enough to stop a spike but is capable of slowing pressure down alot. And with alot of spikes now-a-days people love to either teleport or simply move next to their target giving the monks at least a second to stop the spike. With a good secondary monk that uses either Divert Hexes, Zealous Benediction, or maybe a BL/WoH I think it is very viable.

What are your thoughts?

[soulwar]

Enchantment.

Strip away. Ew...

Or Shatter it.

It doesn't block life stealing and degen, so Spell Breaker just pwned Life Sheath. Jk

[Parker Bsb]

Monks tend to use their elite for a specific task in GvG now (Divert Hexes, Restore Conditions both self explanatory; ZB mainly because it's just so easy to use on a Infuse monk).

This skill doesn't really do anything that non elite skills can do in terms of reliving pressure - Prot Spirit, Spirit Bond, and Shield of Absorption tend to always be somewhere on monks bars. Why waste an elite on something that isn't nearly as versatile?

[ump]

Enchantment removal is the big thing, but Life Sheath also doesn't stack well with any other damage reductions either. Therefore, it will look at the full amount of damage you would have received and subtract from how it reduces. On the other hand, if you have both Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond on, they also don't look at the effects of each other, but they at least work together where one sees you would have taken over 60 damage and heals you while another sees you would have taken over 10% damage and reduces to 10%.

[HappyPants]

The skill itself isn't that bad, but as an elite it doesn't cut it. Say you made a monk with 14 prot, 11 healing, and 9 divine favour. This would make LS protect 142 damage and heal for 29 from divine favour. The possibility to heal/nullify 171 damage exists. Not bad for a 5 energy spell, but take into account that it is elite and has a 7 second recharge and it is not that great.

Compare it to some alternatives that you would already have on a monk bar such as RoF and GoH. At the specs listed above a RoF has a maximum capacity to heal/nullify 181 damage (if you were hit for 76+), or if you take a more realistic number to be consistently hit, say around 40 damage, it would heal/nullify 109 damage. RoF has the capacity to be better than LS but on average is likely not to be. Take into account its 2 second recharge and 1/4 cast and it pretty much rivals LS.

GoH at the above specs would heal for 143. Not much less then LS' heal/nullify. When you have 2 spells already that are non-elite that rival LS there is no point to filling up your elite slot with it. You would be much better off taking an elite that will make your monk build more well rounded.

[Ace Bear]

Thanks guys. Especially like Happy's post because it making the most sense and had statistical data.

[Wuzzman]

enchantment removal in todays metagame isn't the problem. However the lack of versitlity of Life Sheath is what makes it very crappy lol.

[Kamahl]

rof> lifeshaeth yay

[Shadowleaf]

Actually, I think it's a pretty good spell. It's just overlooked because people fail to realize how incredibly efficient it is. You can't overheal with pre-healing.

I don't think anyone has tested it enough to say for sure that it's not viable, also. Stuff that doesn't catch on is just dismissed as weak automatically. Sadly, you need a very good team to prove something is viable if it, in fact, is.

[HappyPants]

People fail to realize how incredibly efficient it is. You can't overheal with pre-healing.
You can't over heal with pre-proting because it doesn't heal. The spell would still be wasted if you never took enough damage to use its full damage mitigation, much in the same way that a heal would be wasted by the amount that the heal exceeded the targets max health. It doesn't work extremely well as a pre-prot either because of its slow cast (by prot spell standards). So basically it only works as a pre-prot if you are fairly certain that a target is going to be trained, otherwise it would likely be more appropriate to react with a heal. An example of when you could be fairly certain that a target is going to be trained would be when a team mate is running a flag through an opposing team. Even then there are much better spells to use in this situation such as shield of absorption. I would consider it reasonable to assume that a target would be hit 10 times while under shield of absorption in this case. This leads to a mitigation of 275 damage.

I know that it might work perfectly well to use life sheath on someone when they are already taking damage and get the full benefit of it. I would just consider it more prudent to react with a heal and a different protection spell if need be. This leaves you elite slot open for something that will likely be more beneficial to you.

[Shadowleaf]

Well I think it's safe to assume you'll get 100% efficiency out of this skill vs pressure. The comparrison to SoA is a good reason that they should buff LS though, since SoA is not even elite. =\

I mean, SoA won't always get that much damage mitigation but just the fact that it has the potential to go much higher...

[Darknicrofia]

Until Avatar of Grenth gets rebalanced, any elite enchantments brought into GvG = waste of elite slot, not to mention even w/o enchant removal, Rc and Divert hexes are MUCH better alternative choices for prot elites.

Divert Hexes heals for up to 180+ plust getting rid of some VERY nasty hexes such as Spoil Victor, Migraine, Spiteful Spirit, etc. and Rc would heal for at LEAST 140+ or 180+ canceling deep wound which in turn by gvg standards would equal to about 300 health or so.

Life sheath however, once applied, would be stripped immediately, if the team has no limited enchant removal, any decent caller would simply have his team move onto the next target, meaning LS gets next to nothing done.

[Bloody Samuel]

blessed light/rc/divert hexes >> life sheath

[Dont Eat Brown Snow]

Divert Hexes heals for up to 180+ plust getting rid of some VERY nasty hexes such as Spoil Victor, Migraine, Spiteful Spirit, etc. and Rc would heal for at LEAST 140+ or 180+ canceling deep wound which in turn by gvg standards would equal to about 300 health or so.


You cant compare LS with DH and RC. LS is way more versatile than those. If you want to get that much out of DH and RC you have to set the perfect settings for them to work. They are conditional and their useability is determined from metagame. And it has always been like that. Like now with grenth. LS is decent. I know this doesnt have a lot to do with anything but if anet just made cast time 1/4....

I think that it can have its uses. Just like DH and RC. Also looking form a warriors perspective it can be rather frustrating hitting on a target which doesnt lose any health.

PS and SB does the same job with a faster cast time but thats like 20 nrg.

This wasnt really 2 sum up a point. more 2 keep the discussion open:P

[Ace Bear]

Well thats a more obvious change then you would think. Hell 1/4th cast time would make this enchantment an awesome counter to spike. Hell Life Sheath then prot spirit and they aren't spiking that guy. But with the 1 second cast they have now, you aren't going to stop nothing.

[Bloody Samuel]

If Life Sheath was 1/4 Second Cast and it reduced something Like 400+ damage then I would take it on my bar.

When you have skills Like Prot Spirit/Spirit bond/ Reversal and shield of absorbtion on your bar you better have a damn good reason for taking an elite that isnt even close to as good as these skills.

Energy Management elites used to be the reason to run boon. Now with elites Like Blessed Light in factions, Divert in nightfall as well as the good old restore condition from Core you will never have a reason to run an elite that doesnt do its job (pre-protting) near as good as PS/SB.

Not to mention when an elite like zealous benediction that allows you to run infuse and max your protection and divine and not bother with gift of health.
I would need serious convincing to run that skill but Life sheath like healing hands and aura of faith are just elites that will never see play.

Joe

[The Avatar]

this enchantment get owned by grenth, elite enchantment doesnt worth it since they get stripped easily.

If u want to negate dmg? shield of absorption totally beat it.

[Dont Eat Brown Snow]

If u want to negate dmg? shield of absorption totally beat it.


Prot Spirit/Spirit bond/ Reversal and shield of absorbtion

i have to disaggre.. if only the cast time was changed i would consider hard to take it.. 5 nrg for a ench which is gonna negate 140ish dmg.. I mean that leaves you with quite alot of utilty skills.. 1/4 sec is pretty fast aswell.. and preventing 140 dmg is quite alot.. If you throw it on a person just before he gets spiked (or meanwhile) you will have a good 1/2 sec to push him the last 50 hp up again.. if you look at spikes atm it usually just have around 750 dmg to finish spike off.. Now usually peeps runs around with 600.. now thats 740 and i know thats nt enough but you stil have time to use another fast skill on him..

i think its a pretty good elite if it gets changed.. IF.. It is nt a complete spike saver but it can replace infuse meaning you will use less time getting yourself up and give you a spare extra spot for a skill.. I do think ZB is better but you cant list this skill as a non elite with a cast time on 1/4.. It is true you can get skills with can do the same thing almost.. but it has conditions and limitations..

sb/ps both have to hit dmg above 60 which excludes dmg below that.. furthermore it cost 10 nrg.. and ps doesnt heal up and sb doesnt mitigate all dmg(it is a frickin awesome skill though) so that will mean lesser utilty for nrg??

rof is nt that strong healing and the strength lies in its cast and rech time which is awesome.. the healing doesnt stack..

SoA is good vs some quick combos like assasin.. but it doesnt help alot vs some single hits.. So you have to know what is lying around the corner more or the less.. 5hp for 5 nrg is very energy effective..

the idea of elite is that it removes job for other skills so you gain more space in your bar for utilty.. i think life sheath does have a chance to do that if it gets buffed...

the problem is that it is a enchantment.. it is an advantage aswell as a problem since there is ench stripping.. It is quite harsh to call it the crappiest elite.. it works in very defensive builds like monk signet spike build.. but nowhere else since it is just to slow..


can anyone put this in Anets "idea box":P

[Bloody Samuel]

no its bad, and its elite

[Dont Eat Brown Snow]

That is quick statement to come with.. But yea it does sux atm.. But i would still consider making a monk build, build up around life sheath(more or less)

[Archedgar]

As someone said, If it had 1/4 cast time, it would improve upon the skill vastly, and would likely produce a more popular and useful life sheath elite....

[shardfenix]

Life sheath doesn't get run because Zealous Benediction is better in every way. Heals more, costs less, stacks.

[Jummeh]

RoF > Life Sheath

Why, RoF is on virtually every monk bar. LS is not.
RoF can negate 160 damage on a 1/4 sec cast. But a regular 40 off 40 healed at the right time means all the difference. As an elite, its just terrible.

If I had the choice of it or RoF, even given non-elite status, I still probably won't take it.

[R A N D O M]

anyone remember WM's bonder vs char?

[shardfenix]

Because the recharge is 20 seconds.

[Ace Bear]

First it is 7 recharge. Cast is 1, meaning against teams with no or little enchant removal and pressure damage you could keep it up on 2-3 people and reduce damage alot. Unfortunately if you happen to face those teams with Mesmers(alot of teams out there) or other removal you are S.O.L.

Second stop necroing the thread. Alreadying been said but Life Sheath won't become used unless Anet gives it a faster cast and/or RoF-like properties.

[shardfenix]

Hmm I always thought it was 20 second recharge. It was never good enough to look at. Even still, at 7 recharge, it isn't too spammable, and it doesn't stack. And it isn't free like ZB is.

[R A N D O M]

And it isn't free like ZB is.

trying to insure ZB is "free" is how people die...

[shardfenix]

trying to insure ZB is "free" is how people die...
Free spells != people can't die. Maybe you should monk sometime and see how badly you suck at it.

Random plz don't discuss pvp until you're good at it, kthx.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/Bearn123/gw014-2.jpg

[Kamahl]

Free spells != people can't die. Maybe you should monk sometime and see how badly you suck at it.

Random plz don't discuss pvp until you're good at it, kthx.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/Bearn123/gw014-2.jpg
so your claiming to be good because you iway? awsome

[David Holtzman]

so your claiming to be good because you iway? awsome

Actually I think he was referring to that the "random" of the forums and the "random" in the picture are the same person.

[Nazpharoz]

Life Sheath can be used perfectly in some area's... yes, some area's...

Use it inside low level area while baby-sitting a low level person and you don't have much problems to hold him alsive.

Inside higher level area's it can be used, but it doesn't mitigate enough damage mitigation to make it real usefull.
The cast time for PvP is to slow, but the damage mitigation would be perfect.

The utility question is made the problem for this elite enchantment, that's why you never see much use this spell. For the most skillbars their are better elites to be used instead. If you want to use Life Sheat as your elite you kinda must make your skillbar around it.

The biggest problems with Life Sheat in conjure with other damage mitigation spells is that Life Sheat triggers first.

[halfthought]

Free spells != people can't die. Maybe you should monk sometime and see how badly you suck at it.

Random plz don't discuss pvp until you're good at it, kthx.

*snip*

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I'm sorry, but you almost got me aneurysm from laughing.

You, the person who preaches about how much HA SUCKS due to coookie cutters, and calls all who use them noobs, use Iway

:laughing:

and let me tell you something. If they ARE the same people this means

A)-You Use Iway...how else would you get the screen

[B Ephekt]

trying to insure ZB is "free" is how people die...
Only if you're a bad monk.

If someone is at low health you would cast a rof on them and then queue up ZB immeditately after, so they stay safe in the mean time. Spamming ZB when people aren't below 50% is how bad monks run out of energy 30 seconds into the fight.

[Nazpharoz]

Only if you're a bad monk.

If someone is at low health you would cast a rof on them and then queue up ZB immeditately after, so they stay safe in the mean time. Spamming ZB when people aren't below 50% is how bad monks run out of energy 30 seconds into the fight.

cast rof on a very low healthy target and rof will likely doesn't save him, even when damage mitigation was higher then the damage what wasn't mitigated. co'z damage comes before the healing from healing from damage enchantments. and zb will likely fail after that rof and you just wasted 15 energy on a dead party member.

if his life goes down by warrior training it is usefull to use a rof before a healing burst to save a bit time for a 3/4 casting time spell.

[ump]

I would not run Life Sheath in GvG even if it cost 0 energy and had a 1/4 second casting time, it's that bad because of the way the damage reduction stacks with other damage reductions, the usefulness of other elites, and the liability of being an enchantment.

[Dogbert]

I would not run Life Sheath in GvG even if it cost 0 energy and had a 1/4 second casting time, it's that bad because of the way the damage reduction stacks with other damage reductions, the usefulness of other elites, and the liability of being an enchantment.

I don't know what you mean with how it stacks with other damage reductions but isn't it more like you would not use it because shield of absorption exists?

[Nazpharoz]

I don't know what you mean with how it stacks with other damage reductions but isn't it more like you would not use it because shield of absorption exists?

Shield of Absorption stacks nicely with all other protection skills, it adds up always and does the latter damage mitigation.

Life Sheat does the first protection, instead off the latter one.
If your max health is 300 due to dead penalty and you have protection spirit on you, you will gain 30 damage max.
If you have Life Sheat also on you and a spell does over the damage mitigation off Life Sheat what was over 100 mitigation at that moment.
Life Sheat will do the first mitigation (100), after that the skill had still 20 damage what wasn't mitigated will past protective spirit at that moment.

If Life Sheat was the latter protection, then you would gain 0 damage and still had Life Sheat on you, co'z 100-30=70. and 70 is still at that point the max damage mitigation off the enchantment.

[David Holtzman]

They have a word for things like lifesheath. That word is "shatterbait."

[Lord Helmos]

Right now the viable heals im seeing in pvp are:

Zealous Benediction: One of the greatest heals ever made, it can cancel infuse, costs only 3 energy when used effectively, gives a whopping heal, decent recharge, and its in protection prayers, which owns healing prayers anyday.

Restore Conditions: Nuff said, conditions go bye bye. With all the blindbots, deepwound melee spikes, R/W dazers, of course this is going to be useful... It's rocked since day one.

Divert Hexes: Another awesome elite, you can rid of an entire hex stack, give a big heal, and also remove some conditions. The all purpose pancaea.

Blessed Light: This nice heal clears one hex, one condition, and gives a nice heal. Its sort of like diet divert hexes.

Light of Deliverance: Cheap spammable party heal, whats not to like?

Infuse Health: It should be elite, your instant spike stopper.

Protective Spirit: The ultimate prot so I can come back to you later spell. This spell is the ultimate pressure removal and one of the best spells in the game.

Guardian: The one thing stopping that giant hammer of doom from pounding you into the ground. Monk self defense 101.

Holy Viel: Hex begone on layaway, useful for that sudden migraine that would have given you a bad day. It's good if you don't forget to unclick it once you are hexed.

Spirit Bond: Another spike stopper, its useful to have when you have nothing to infuse with or you see a dual spike coming.

Reversal of Fortune: Quick spammable protection that can give a nice hp swing at any time. The bread and butter of protective heals.

Dismiss Condition: Your best option besides RC, a nice enchantment bonus heal and you can also quickly cast it on yourself to survive a Deep Wound spike.

Aegis: Partywide evasion, its like guardian on steroids. It's expensive but it can stop a melee roll from flattening your team like a pancake.

Extinguish: The pitfall of searing flames. Partywide condition removal, theres alot to like here.

Draw Conditions: Take on for the team and draw the daze off the RC prot so you all dont die.

Shield of Absorption: One click melee stopper, frenzied warrior gets no cookies from you.

Signet of Devotion: A little long of a cast, but not bad for a free heal.

~~~~~~~~~~

As you can see these are the best monking skills in the game, namely because of their utility and reliablity. Anything else on a monking bar right now is just candy filler. Any ranked monk should and will know everything there is to know about all the skills on that list, right down to casting them in situational reflex.

The reason lifesheath and other skills aren't a part of that list is because there isnt anything they can do that these can't. Spirit bond, protective spirit, guardian, and aegis have way more utility than Lifesheath and aren't even elite.

Question why you would bring lifesheath over one of these skills? Even shield of absorption is nearly as good but also free's up an elite slot and has the potential to absorb more damage.

Until the meta changes this list is what you will be seeing, and honestly it hasn't changed much over time.

[Lord Helmos]

They have a word for things like lifesheath. That word is "shatterbait."

My grenthie loves lifesheath monks :D

IMO its a pretty sad elite. It has weak migitation potential, does little to stop degen, hexes, and conditions, and also is prone to shatter or grenthifism.

In short its NOT RELIABLE in saving someone. Why would I lifesheath someone and chance them dying from a shatter when I can just RoF, Shield of Absorp, or prot spirit the damage. A straight heal is much better. Lifesheath is a gimmicky 120-170ish wanna be heal on layaway. I can deal 170 dmg with a dervish so easily. Actually within 7 seconds the damage I can do with a dervish is well over 170. You would be twice dead before a recast. However, something like ZB would spend 3 energy to restore over 170 life to the target every 5 seconds.

Also lifesheath doesn't stack on itself, so its wasteful at the same time and constantly has to be reapplied to offer a 170 max buffer. I mean its nothing but vital weapon with a gimmicky setup.

I take that back, vital weapon is a weapon spell can cant be stripped. GG lifesheath.

~~~~~~~~

I think one way to make it a viable elite would be to have it give an armor bonus. Something like +25.

or maybe

Lifesheath: For 30 seconds target ally can absorb 80-170 dmg. When lifesheath ends, target ally loses one hex.

or

Lifesheath: For 30 seconds target ally has +25 armor and can absorb 80-170 dmg.

or

Lifesheath: This elite does not suck.

[Savsuds]

They have a word for things like lifesheath. That word is "shatterbait."

Amen,

I love it when that prot spirit or bond gets cast, finally something I can shatter for the kill.

[Smite goes forums]

Life Sheath?

Its a viable skill, can stop alot of high damage from killing someone. Even with prot at 10 it stops 118.

What are your thoughts?

the problem is mainly its cast time 1 second is pretty slow for it to be usefull against anything but someone being trained, secondly 118 isnt that mutch if u think about it. for example the effects of reversal of fortune can be mutch greater its a non elite, 1/4 second cast, fast recharge, prevents around 50 and can heal for about the same in total around 100 do you really want to use your elite spot for a skill that you already have a better version of on your bar? unfortunatly its outclassed by skills sutch as ZB,RC,LoD.imo

[Infusing Priest]

One thing: It doesn't heal...... that's it, think about it :/

You have a skill that MIGHT prevent damage, takes 4x as long to cast as RoF and doesn't even prevent twice as much, and RoF even heals a tiny but, can recharge 3,5x as fast, I mean come on.

RC -> Heals
Divert -> Heals
BL -> Heals
RoF -> Heals

LifeS -> Might not do a thing, takes 1/4 sec longer to cast(Divert still is 1 sec I know) is a strippable enchant AND DOESN"T HEAL

Nuff said.

~Priest

[Chemical Ali]

I thought it was pretty cool yesterday when i saw [rawr] beat [Cry], both w/ 2 monks. rawr had LoD and LS, Cry had LoD and SoDeflection. Surprising to say the least, and their builds were about as close to identical as you can get, though i'd give the edge to rawr.

[David Holtzman]

Awowa always tries out weird skills. He and pounds are actually the people who popularized the use of Purge Signet. LS is pretty bad though. Both playing against rawr and playing with them, I haven't seen LS be a better skill than, say, RC or SoD.

[Ace Bear]

Yeah but SoD lasts for usually around 8 or 9 seconds(with 14 in prot and a +20% mod, can't remember if the number rounds up or down though) and doesn't stop all damage. LS lasts for 142 damage and with an Axe warrior swinging at you that is(and that has a Conjure on) 4 swings on average before that guy will break through the damage reduct or 5.33 seconds. Thats not including kiting or defensive skills. RoF while an awesome skill has huge potential but doesn't really live up to it. Sure it CAN stop 150+ damage but on average it will stop a heck of alot less. As shown by an Ele wanding a target lol.

Btw pounds was amazing at pre-protting during those finals. Even with enchant removal on the other team it didn't matter with all the enchants they were throwing out.

[JoeKnowMo]

LS lasts for 142 damage and with an Axe warrior swinging at you that is(and that has a Conjure on) 4 swings on average before that guy will break through the damage reduct or 5.33 seconds.

If the warrior unloads a couple of attack skills, LS is done in 2 hits regardless of whether you have Prot Spirit on you.

The BIGGEST problem with LS is that it doesn't stack with PS, SoA, and Shielding Hands.

[cranialexodus]

The BIGGEST problem with LS is that it doesn't stack with PS, SoA, and Shielding Hands.

it does stack with PS afaik. If you run around with 1 hitpoint, protective spirit and life sheath you'll take 140 hits or whatever before you die. Possibly only if you cast LS after PS.

[Raven Flameheart]

it does stack with PS afaik. If you run around with 1 hitpoint, protective spirit and life sheath you'll take 140 hits or whatever before you die. Possibly only if you cast LS after PS.

Yes, you need the order to be correct in order for this to work, but it does. But that helps it for farming more than it does comp PvP

[JoeKnowMo]

it does stack with PS afaik.

Doh, nvm. You are right.

Not sure what I was smoking when I "tested" it, but I won't be smoking that again for some time. :embarassed:

[exjeh]

In my opignion Life sheed is a waste of an elite. Most Rc's (meta prots at this date) run spirit bond with shielding hands or shield of absorption , because most monk backlines cary 1 prot spirit and 1 spirit bond , these spelles are more then enough , since most players have 600+ health these days. those are non-elites that are way beter then life sheed, gives u an open space for another elite (like RC or DH) Life sheed can be very usefull though , but in PvE i don't think it will ever get a deepend space in GvG like p-spirit or spirit bond.

An other disadvantage is the casting time :p. Thats about all , thank you for reading this

[Antillio]

enchant removal isn't that a weak thing to say, PS and SB rule ..but erhm... are they not enchants also .... yesz ....

i think life sheat was meant indeed as a pre prot skill so we could take other uttility skills, i agree as the skill stands now it's not gonna get popular but hopefully well see a boost in cast time + dmg reduction and + regen or armor.

then i would really take it in my bar as the long time this skill stays on is a plus for pve only the fact 142 dmg is over faster then the skill has recharged is a minus for me. atleast in higher level pve