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D E A T H L I F E
11-03-2007, 14:59
OK...so this is supposed ot be an expansion and we would need to have at least one of the three campaigns Prophecies, Factions or Nightfall in order to play it.

The next supposed unofficial news is that it will be the final chapter of a quadroligy (supposed to be a trilogy right?) ..and it will link up the remaining lose ends of the story line started in Prophecies.

Now as far as prophecies go, yes there are many lose ends still (mursaat & seers or the purpose of the light houses) or some stories that we like to see finished (Ascalon green again or the revenge upon the charr)

Nightfall can have some minor connections too..maybe Menzies and Dhumm hunting links.

But how do you reckon there might be a connection from the factions storyline?

Please speculate, strictly on the basis of lore, on how you think there can be a link of GW:EN with all three previous chapters

Minionman
11-03-2007, 18:33
Factions: no idea, there didn't really seem to be any large loose ends to cover there. (Whoever came before the Kurzicks, possibly, origin of Kanaxi possibly, though these aren't huge dangling holes like some parts of prophecies.)

From Nightfall: Maybe something with Palawa Joko, depending on where the map for the chapter is. Possibly, though it seems hard to fit in, is an explanation for what got Varesh worshipping abaddon (Kayet teaching her doesn't seem enough, and leaves open some questions about where/how Kayet got to worshipping abaddon.)

From prophecies: The bettletun watch towers, remaining bloodstone locations (If they were able to get flung into the next expansion area.)

Blastsniper
11-03-2007, 21:52
Shiro will double his steroids now and fight you again.. and lich will be even weaker.

Santax
12-03-2007, 17:18
Eye of the North

North is obvious, it takes place somewhere above Tyria. Eye, however, is something else. Is it possible that GW:EN takes place on the Isle of Janthir?

Quintus Antonius
12-03-2007, 17:27
Okay, has it been officially confirmed to be called "Eye of the North"? Because the fact that it spells GWEN really makes me think it is a really awful joke people are taking seriously.

Minionman
12-03-2007, 17:30
Even if it's isn't actually called "eye of the north", a northern area expansion is one of the best possibilities right now, so there's no reason not to make guesses on it. (Whether this has a purpose in the Lore forum is up for grabs, though it seems o.k.)

Quintus Antonius
12-03-2007, 17:33
Okay well what we do know is that it is the end of the Prophecies-Factions-Nightfall quadology, and we can reasonably deduce that it will be north. Even the spoof names, like Binky's Arctic Spelling Adventure have hinted "north" as well as hints dropped in-game in a fashion similar to those used to extrapolate the locations of chapters 2 and 3. However, I checked, and Eye of The North is not confirmed. Utopia was also a registered domain name and it was also a false lead dropped by ANet.

The fact that Guild Wars: Eye of the North shortens to GWEN tells me this is a joke someone is taking a bit too seriously. I urge caution here, extreme caution.

Ranger Nietzsche
12-03-2007, 19:50
eh the whole thing is shady, but i see no reason NOT to refer to it as such for the purposes of keeping everything straight.

Quintus Antonius
12-03-2007, 19:57
I think refering it to Chapter 4 is much safer, and is also guaranteed to be correct.

Ranger Nietzsche
12-03-2007, 19:59
But everyone loves codenames Quintus!

From now on you shall be codename: ROMAN And I shall be codename: ZARATHUSTRA and Chapter 4 shall be codename: GWEN

im tingling with Tom Clancy like suspense already.

Quintus Antonius
12-03-2007, 20:01
Yes, and TAOS functions as the Illuminati, we are actually the ones running GW, GWO, Guru, Wiki, and every other mainstream Guild Wars site!

Ranger Nietzsche
12-03-2007, 20:05
mmm i said Tom Clancy like suspense

That sounds more like Dan Brown type suspense.

But i wouldn't want to do that thing that i'm always yelling at others for doing.

gervasium
12-03-2007, 20:15
We're getting off topic here!
And there's nothing confirming this will be the last gw 1 stand alone game, as much as there's nothing confirming it to be GWEN. The inquirer article has lots of misleading info.

Ranger Nietzsche
12-03-2007, 20:16
OFF TOPIC!!!!???

Its a damn speculation thread based on rumor, semi-false reports and blind guess work.

There is no off topic here my friends. only chaos and death.

but don't worry agent GERV. ZARATHUSTRA and ROMAN are on the case so solve the mystery of GWEN

Minionman
12-03-2007, 20:18
Some more minor things for a northlands chapter:


More stormcaller (where it came from, why it was made, how it somehow got lost at Drascir despite people having been there, etc.) (this is the most likely one out of the ideas in this post, others are wild guesses.)

Possibly more scepter of Orr. (We got the staff of the mists quest for some explanation, but more is always useful. Plus, if there are any other such powerful artifacts.)

Why the searing was done at a particular time it was. (From the quest descriptions it seems that while the titans started the Charr attacking, the timing of the searing was still relatively random, so some explanation of whether it was a powerful magician, some Titans deciding that the charr were taking too long and giving them magic, or some lucky charr inventor coming up with a "hot crystal throwing device".)

Quintus Antonius
12-03-2007, 20:20
So far as we know, the Searing was performed when it was performed because the Charr had amassed their blitzkrieg and needed to take down the Great Northern Wall to do it. There are several large threads on the subject.

Santax
12-03-2007, 21:45
Okay, has it been officially confirmed to be called "Eye of the North"? Because the fact that it spells GWEN really makes me think it is a really awful joke people are taking seriously.

Domain for eyeofthenorth.org and a trademark have been registered by NCSoft in February. Utopia was NOT a false lead, but rather a discontinued project. It was registered in July 2006 and not discovered until 2007, whilst this domain and trademark were registered in February 2007.

gervasium: "Guild Wars 2" was also recently registered as a trademark.

Minionman
12-03-2007, 22:10
They're messing with out heads, Guild wars 2 will be chapter 4 (they will repeat a factions type idea with 2 fighting groups), and eye of the North will be a new game they release. :)

(Yes, I'm just kidding. Back to guesses for loose ends to be tied up.)

Nanashi
13-03-2007, 07:12
Can someone direct me to the official source proclaiming Ch. 4 to be the very end of GW. Or is everybody referring it to "the end" as means to tie loose knots but in the process form new ones which Ch 5 will pick up on? Because as far as I have heard Gaile never confirmed Ch4 being the last of what we shall receive but nor did she disapprove. I just find it hard to believe that until official word confirms this; I think they'll continue spewing out golden new content.

Zaxares
13-03-2007, 07:14
If we're just going on loose ends that need to be tied up from each Chapter, I'm guessing the following will be addressed:

Prophecies:

- The fate of Ascalon. Does it still wage war against the Charr? Or have they finally been slaughtered by their vastly numerically superior foes? (To say nothing of the dearth of food and water in Post-Searing Ascalon) Might they even have pushed back the Charr and started to return the landscape to the condition it once was?
- The White Mantle and the Mursaat. With the Mursaat's power broken (or at least severely shaken), will the White Mantle continue to maintain their grip on Kryta? Or will Salma (the next heir to the throne of Kryta) lead the Krytan people in rebellion to overthrow the White Mantle? And just what are the Mursaat doing all this time?
- The Dwarven Civil War. Given all the quests that the player could do to break the power of the Stone Summit (Sorrow's Furnace, killing Dagnar Stonepate), I think it's a safe bet that by Chapter 4, the Deldrimor Dwarves will have won the war and things will return to normal. Between the assaults by the Deldrimor and the Dredge uprisings, the Stone Summit probably crumbled not long after the death of Dagnar and the destruction of the Forge Heart in the quest Final Assault.
- Just what has Glint been doing all this time during the events of Nightfall and its aftermath? And what did she do with the Sceptre of Orr?
- And what happened to Gwen? :tongue:

Factions:

- The Afflicted. By Chapter 4 I think we can safely assume that the Canthans will have eradicated the last of the Afflicted.
- The Kurzick/Luxon conflict. Based on current trends and the Alliance Battles, the Kurzicks and Luxons are likely to go on fighting until one or the other is completely destroyed.
- Kanaxai and the Oni. With Kanaxai slain at the end of the Deep elite mission, it's a safe bet that the Oni (being psychic manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams) will slowly disappear, and the Outcasts (possibly) regain control of their senses.
- Urgoz. With Urgoz slain at the end of the Urgoz' Warren elite mission, the Wardens are freed from his corruption-induced rage, as are the Dredge. The Dredge may very well end up forging an alliance of some kind with the Kurzicks; how exactly the Wardens will react is less clear. They may be freed from the control of Urgoz, but they likely will not be too happy that their 'god' has been slain.
- Shing Jea Monastery. Following the death of Master Togo, who takes over the leadership of Shing Jea? There is no clear successor among the Head Instructors of the Monastery. Were it to come down to a popular vote, I'm guessing either the Warrior, Ritualist or Assassin instructors will assume the position (as they seem the most level-headed). It's more likely that Emperor Kisu will simply appoint a replacement, however. (For all we know, it may be one of the henchies that takes over the monastery!)

Nightfall:
- Palawa Joko. Probably the biggest loose end in Nightfall. With Varesh dead and Nightfall stopped, he now has nothing to stop him from rebuilding his undead army and pursuing his dreams of conquest once again. The nations of Vabbi and Kourna now know how he invaded Vabbi in the first place, so they will no doubt be better prepared this time around. I think it much more likely, however, that the Order of Whispers will send people to "pacify" Palawa Joko once the events of Nightfall are over.
- Kourna. Varesh's death leaves the position of Warmarshal empty, and there is little evidence to suggest that she left any heirs for the position. In any case, her dictatorial leadership style and attempts to bring about Nightfall would probably have destroyed any popular support for the status quo among the Kournan peasantry. I wouldn't be surprised if General Morgahn assumed rulership of Kourna until a suitable leader could be found.

Miscellaneous:
What do all the Heroes of Nightfall do after the events of the game? Some of the Heroes will no doubt go on to do more adventures with the player, but I think some of the Heroes (Koss and Melonni, in particular) would be more interesting in settling down. Following are some ideas of mine:

- Dunkoro returns to Istan, where he assumes leadership of the Sunspears and continues in Kormir's tradition until the time comes for his retirement.
- Koss and Melonni remain in Kourna and retire from the Sunspears to focus on rebuilding Kourna, and probably raising a family.
- Tahlkora returns to Vabbi where she eventually takes over her father's position. She pushes for Vabbi to have a much more proactive role in the governance of Elona and helps end the isolationist policies of Vabbi.
- Acolytes Jin and Sousuke return to the Battle Isles where they are welcomed as elite members of the Zaishen Order. They spend the rest of their lives battling FotM teams in Hero's Ascent.
- Zhed Shadowhoof returns to his pride where he works to normalise relationships between the Kournans and the Centaurs. This isn't helped by his constant use of 'two-legs'.
- Margrid the Sly probably continues going on more adventures with the player.
- The Master of Whispers returns to being mysterious. :tongue:
- Goren probably continues going on more adventures with the player. (Plus, I think he has a thing for Margrid.)
- Norgu earns a fortune selling his story as the Hero of Nightfall; enough to actually catapult him into the nobility where he spends the rest of his life indulging himself in decadent banquets and lavish plays. (Not unlike a certain Prince...)
- General Morgahn assumes leadership of Kourna until a proper replacement can be found.
- Olias probably continues going on more adventures with the player.
- Zenmai probably continues going on more adventures with the player.
- Razah probably continues going on more adventures with the player. (Until he decides one day to experience what betrayal is like and slits your throat in your sleep. :tongue:)

Wyatt Drago
13-03-2007, 07:41
@Quintus: GWEN was also registered as a domain name, I think it was "eyeofthenorth.com" or something, registered by the same person (NC something) as "guildwarsutopia.com".

Nanashi
13-03-2007, 09:02
- General Morgahn assumes leadership of Kourna until a proper replacement can be found.

Wasn't Kourna Koss's rightful place. Most likely I agree with your theory of Koss and Melonni as any simple minded fellow would have guessed during the missions following the garden/Jahai corruption.

I wouldn't be surprised however if Morgahn addressed to the Kournans that Koss and Melonni were to take the throwns. From there Melonni could monitor the lesser economical resources while Koss follows his nobility in making sure the Princes of Vabbi's resources are well nourished. In doing so all three nations would be allied more than likely following the prevention of total Nightfall.

Jono Mozza
13-03-2007, 09:42
With regards to what happens in Cantha, I think the Kurzicks/Luxons may cease hostilities after seeing the terror Shiro caused. Possibly the unite with the Main Canthan Empire in Kaineng. Or maybe thats just wishful thinking.

Minionman
13-03-2007, 14:27
They seem like they will stop fighting, but still throw fist pumping and macho displays around to still show who's on top.


Acolytes Jin and Sousuke return to the Battle Isles where they are welcomed as elite members of the Zaishen Order. They spend the rest of their lives battling FotM teams in Hero's Ascent.

:laugh:

Quintus Antonius
13-03-2007, 16:04
If we're just going on loose ends that need to be tied up from each Chapter, I'm guessing the following will be addressed:

A lot of these questions have already been answered:


Prophecies:

- The fate of Ascalon. Does it still wage war against the Charr? Or have they finally been slaughtered by their vastly numerically superior foes? (To say nothing of the dearth of food and water in Post-Searing Ascalon) Might they even have pushed back the Charr and started to return the landscape to the condition it once was?

According to the Factions lore guide, Ascalon has started to regrow and the Ascalonian forces have indeed pushed the Charr back into the Northlands beyond the Great Northern Wall.


- The White Mantle and the Mursaat. With the Mursaat's power broken (or at least severely shaken), will the White Mantle continue to maintain their grip on Kryta? Or will Salma (the next heir to the throne of Kryta) lead the Krytan people in rebellion to overthrow the White Mantle? And just what are the Mursaat doing all this time?

Once again, according ot the Factions lore guide, the White Mantle loose their grip on Kryta and the Lion Guard act as regents until the last member of the royal family can be installed. The White Mantle continue to hold off the Undead, but their power has been diminished to simply their strongholds at Shaemoor, Riverside Province, and the D'Alessio Seaboard.


Factions:

- The Afflicted. By Chapter 4 I think we can safely assume that the Canthans will have eradicated the last of the Afflicted.

Without Shiro, Afflicted can't exist. So, I think it's safe to say that they are gone for now.


- The Kurzick/Luxon conflict. Based on current trends and the Alliance Battles, the Kurzicks and Luxons are likely to go on fighting until one or the other is completely destroyed.

According to dialouge of Luxon and Kurzick NPCs in the Divine Path after beating the last mission of Factions, they are eager to get back to their respective lands and get back to fighting each other. The Kurzick Kommandant in the Jade Sea says that even though Shiro is defeated, they must still fight the Luxons for resources.


- Kanaxai and the Oni. With Kanaxai slain at the end of the Deep elite mission, it's a safe bet that the Oni (being psychic manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams) will slowly disappear, and the Outcasts (possibly) regain control of their senses.

Logical. I don't think they need a whole chapter to explain that.


- Shing Jea Monastery. Following the death of Master Togo, who takes over the leadership of Shing Jea? There is no clear successor among the Head Instructors of the Monastery. Were it to come down to a popular vote, I'm guessing either the Warrior, Ritualist or Assassin instructors will assume the position (as they seem the most level-headed). It's more likely that Emperor Kisu will simply appoint a replacement, however. (For all we know, it may be one of the henchies that takes over the monastery!)

One of the NPCs at the end talks about who succeeds Togo, or at least, what happens. I don't remember what he says though.


Nightfall:
- Palawa Joko. Probably the biggest loose end in Nightfall. With Varesh dead and Nightfall stopped, he now has nothing to stop him from rebuilding his undead army and pursuing his dreams of conquest once again. The nations of Vabbi and Kourna now know how he invaded Vabbi in the first place, so they will no doubt be better prepared this time around. I think it much more likely, however, that the Order of Whispers will send people to "pacify" Palawa Joko once the events of Nightfall are over.

That I think is the biggest loose end of Nightfall. Palawa Joko is basically the Kim Jong-Il of Tyria, and will undoubtably try something. "I do not have weapons of mass destruction!"


- Kourna. Varesh's death leaves the position of Warmarshal empty, and there is little evidence to suggest that she left any heirs for the position. In any case, her dictatorial leadership style and attempts to bring about Nightfall would probably have destroyed any popular support for the status quo among the Kournan peasantry. I wouldn't be surprised if General Morgahn assumed rulership of Kourna until a suitable leader could be found.

Odds are, Kourna will work like Rome did after Caesar's died. Either the Senate (or whatever legistlative body Kourna has, one ruler cannot run everything by herself) appointed a new Emperor. I think Kourna may be in for civil war before it is all resolved.



Miscellaneous:
What do all the Heroes of Nightfall do after the events of the game? Some of the Heroes will no doubt go on to do more adventures with the player, but I think some of the Heroes (Koss and Melonni, in particular) would be more interesting in settling down. Following are some ideas of mine:

Don't they have dialouge that at least hints at this? I don't know all of it off the top of my head, but I know a few speak of rebuilding, and the Master of Whispers speaks of retiring to a nice little house.

Santax
13-03-2007, 16:50
The fate of Ascalon. Does it still wage war against the Charr? Or have they finally been slaughtered by their vastly numerically superior foes? (To say nothing of the dearth of food and water in Post-Searing Ascalon) Might they even have pushed back the Charr and started to return the landscape to the condition it once was?
With Stormcaller the Charr were forced into retreat and it says somewhere that the first shoots of grass are beginning to grow in Ascalon again by the time of 5 years after the Searing.


The White Mantle and the Mursaat. With the Mursaat's power broken (or at least severely shaken), will the White Mantle continue to maintain their grip on Kryta? Or will Salma (the next heir to the throne of Kryta) lead the Krytan people in rebellion to overthrow the White Mantle? And just what are the Mursaat doing all this time?
The Mursaat do not come from Tyria, but rather from Janthir, an Island continent what is somewhere else. Although their stranglehold on the Ring of Fire Island Chain is broken, they still have a city along the banks of the Ullen River in the Maguuma Jungle. We also know that the White Mantle is still operating and keeping the Door of Komalie shut 3 years on, even the same time as the Battle of Gandara, when the demons killed Erulai the Inimical atop Bloodstone Fen. What interests me is what he said to Olias when he saw the Chaos Rift. Before he knew it contained demons, he said "Look! Surely this is a sign that our gods have not abandoned us. They come now, in my time of need!". This seems to imply that after the Titans were released, the Mursaat went back into hiding.


The Dwarven Civil War. Given all the quests that the player could do to break the power of the Stone Summit (Sorrow's Furnace, killing Dagnar Stonepate), I think it's a safe bet that by Chapter 4, the Deldrimor Dwarves will have won the war and things will return to normal. Between the assaults by the Deldrimor and the Dredge uprisings, the Stone Summit probably crumbled not long after the death of Dagnar and the destruction of the Forge Heart in the quest Final Assault.
I imagine that the Stone Summit are severely weakened, if not wiped out completely.


Just what has Glint been doing all this time during the events of Nightfall and its aftermath? And what did she do with the Sceptre of Orr?
That's a good point. She has been on Tyria longer than the Forgotten, and the Titans are "almost"" as old as the Forgotten. This means that she was there the first time they were released, and so she knew that when the players released the Titans, all of Tyria was at risk. So why did she lead them to that point?


And what happened to Gwen? :tongue:
Eye of the North: GW:EN... CONSPIRACY! :fortuneteller:


The Afflicted. By Chapter 4 I think we can safely assume that the Canthans will have eradicated the last of the Afflicted.
In the old Gain Zenmai, Imperial Guardsman Linro assumed that Zenmai had found the corpse of "another plague creature". This means that the Afflicted, or at least the remnants of them, are still around. We also don't know how, or if, they breed. In the new Chasing Zenmai, it is revealed that the Am Fah are still using the Chalice of Corruption to create Afflicted creatures.


The Kurzick/Luxon conflict. Based on current trends and the Alliance Battles, the Kurzicks and Luxons are likely to go on fighting until one or the other is completely destroyed.
They came to a truce at the end of the Factions campaign... has this been broken?

Kanaxai and the Oni. With Kanaxai slain at the end of the Deep elite mission, it's a safe bet that the Oni (being psychic manifestations of Kanaxai's dreams) will slowly disappear, and the Outcasts (possibly) regain control of their senses.
Urgoz can never be slain, according to the Factions PRIMA guide, and so there's a possibility that the same applies to Kanaxai.


Urgoz. With Urgoz slain at the end of the Urgoz' Warren elite mission, the Wardens are freed from his corruption-induced rage, as are the Dredge. The Dredge may very well end up forging an alliance of some kind with the Kurzicks; how exactly the Wardens will react is less clear. They may be freed from the control of Urgoz, but they likely will not be too happy that their 'god' has been slain.
See above. If Urgoz were truly to die, it would be likely that the entire Echovald Forest would die with him. Also, the dredge have attempted to forge an alliance with the Kurzicks and failed. Only the ones in Urgoz's Warren were every affected by his influence anyway.


Shing Jea Monastery. Following the death of Master Togo, who takes over the leadership of Shing Jea? There is no clear successor among the Head Instructors of the Monastery. Were it to come down to a popular vote, I'm guessing either the Warrior, Ritualist or Assassin instructors will assume the position (as they seem the most level-headed). It's more likely that Emperor Kisu will simply appoint a replacement, however. (For all we know, it may be one of the henchies that takes over the monastery!)
Headmaster Vhang wanted to take over the Monastery, but then so did Headmaster Amara. Headmaster Zhan was a friend of Togo's, but Headmaster Quin would be a candidate if it was based on profession.


Palawa Joko. Probably the biggest loose end in Nightfall. With Varesh dead and Nightfall stopped, he now has nothing to stop him from rebuilding his undead army and pursuing his dreams of conquest once again. The nations of Vabbi and Kourna now know how he invaded Vabbi in the first place, so they will no doubt be better prepared this time around. I think it much more likely, however, that the Order of Whispers will send people to "pacify" Palawa Joko once the events of Nightfall are over.
He has a long way to go before his undead army are ready again, but it is now the Order of the Sunspears who have control of the Junundu, not him. It's strategically more difficult to conquer Elona than it was before.

Also, a while ago I had a storyline development idea for Palawa Joko, it has no real evidence to back it up or anything, but it seems interesting. All undead have masters because they had to be animated by something - who is Palawa Joko's master? Grenth, maybe? Considering that there's a possibility that Grenth and Lyssa were defeated by Abaddon at one point, if Grenth was presumed dead then that would provide a perfect opportunity to, say, conquer Elona. This is just a personal thought of mine, and probably shouldn't be taken into consideration.


Kourna. Varesh's death leaves the position of Warmarshal empty, and there is little evidence to suggest that she left any heirs for the position. In any case, her dictatorial leadership style and attempts to bring about Nightfall would probably have destroyed any popular support for the status quo among the Kournan peasantry. I wouldn't be surprised if General Morgahn assumed rulership of Kourna until a suitable leader could be found.
I'd also say General Morgahn, being Varesh's last general, would likely take that position. However, one of the Dynastic Spirits mentioned "The Dynasties still live in my dreams. There is another true-blooded heir...". I am not sure how this should be interpreted.


Razah probably continues going on more adventures with the player. (Until he decides one day to experience what betrayal is like and slits your throat in your sleep. :tongue:)
Heh, that's an interesting thought. The first bit, anyway. Razah is a spirit, and can live forever if not killed. He could have a major part in Guild Wars 2.

aptaleonII
13-03-2007, 17:08
About Palawa Joko; Remember that Palawa only had as much success as he did because he made use of Basalt Grotto, the unguarded pass from the Desolation to Vabbi. In a quest, the Order of Whispers find out about the pass, and start watching over it. When Palawa Joko DOES strike again, there will be more opposition... (though no Turai Ossa to defeat him :0 )

Arkhan The Black
13-03-2007, 19:00
Palawa Joko will not launch any attacks now because he will have all the time in the world and wait for the right moment. Just like the Lich was he is bound to the world of Tyria and can probably only be truly destroyed if slain on a Bloodstone.

Minionman
13-03-2007, 20:13
I mostly agree with the people who say the order of whispers will show up and recapture Palawa. It seems that the heros will help with reorganizing/rebuilding Elona, than quietly head into Desolation with some whispers people and recapture Palawa before he starts anything again.

themagicmoedee
13-03-2007, 20:29
Why would anybody need to stop Palawa Joko? He was mostly comic relief in all of his dialogs - more Army of Darkness than Rosemary's Baby. For me, anyway. Maybe I got the wrong impression. Regardless, it's pretty clear that his "empire" is in tatters, so he's going to need lots of time (decades) to reconstitute anything close to a threatening force. I'm also not one hundred percent sure what the status of his "truce" with the Sunspears is at the close of the campaign.

I'd think the Mursaat to be a more likely player for the fourth chapter. They have one of the most enigmatic, totally unelaborated (they exemplify the "these guys are totally red, so we should totally kill them" plot deficit) parts in the first game. We never hear one of them so much as talk as far as I can remember. Even as villains, there's a lot more questions about them to be answered.

Quintus Antonius
13-03-2007, 20:38
We've had this discussion about Palawa in another thread. Let's not get it started here again. Basically, we came to the conclusion that if Hitler told a particularly funny knock-knock joke, he still killed 3 million Jews and started a World War.

Personally, I agree, I think the Mursaat will be the plot function of the fourth chapter, along with the Charr. I also believe we'll be on their side, more or less undoing Prophecies. Glint will pop up too, I'm sure.

aptaleonII
13-03-2007, 22:00
If Charr ARE a playable race in GW: 2, which i am not fully believing without official proof, then chapter 4 would almost certainly be needed for patching things up with the Charr. Many people still blame them for the searing! myself included.

Arkhan The Black
13-03-2007, 23:25
Well in NF there are signs that some of the Charr wants to redeem their past.

Quintus Antonius
13-03-2007, 23:38
I doubt the animosity between the Charr and humans will ever fully go away. The Titans appear to the Charr is a recent thing, however, the Charr have been fighting with Ascalon since it's conception according to the Prophecies Manuscripts. It was a war over resources and territory, made crazy by Abaddon's intervention.

Still, perhaps the manipulation of the Charr by Abaddon may be enough to promote a peace between the two groups.

Minionman
13-03-2007, 23:43
Why would anybody need to stop Palawa Joko? He was mostly comic relief in all of his dialogs - more Army of Darkness than Rosemary's Baby. For me, anyway. Maybe I got the wrong impression. Regardless, it's pretty clear that his "empire" is in tatters, so he's going to need lots of time (decades) to reconstitute anything close to a threatening force.


That's why people would attack him right away, he does plan to build up a force, but is weak enough now that it would be easy to head in soon after the nightfall story and get him dealt with before he has a chance ot become powerful.

Quintus Antonius
14-03-2007, 00:01
I asked you not to revive the discussion on Palawa here in this thread. Respect my order, or I will delete posts and close the thread. Thank you for your compliance.

If you wish to discuss Joko further, here is the thread on him:
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431618

Kjentei
14-03-2007, 00:31
There's this assumed Chapter 4 picture of GW:EN that might have some clues (from the insider article):

http://the-inquirer.net/images/articles/GWX-31.jpg
(I also noted possibly a very subtle shadow of a mountain in the top right of the image. Maybe hinting towards northern, mountaineous terrain.)

I first thought the architecture seemed kind of "Mursaat-like", but I have no idea, but I want to know what you think of the picture Quintus.

EDIT: I was wondering if this might have anything to do with (forgot name- that White Mantle guy who was dumped out of Kryta) who saw (forgot quote) that "city that reached up into the skies". I think it was discussed much in the chapter 4 speculation thread. (:embarassed: Sorry about forgetting.)

Quintus Antonius
14-03-2007, 00:48
It's classic Deldrimor architecture. Copper (the green metal) and pinewood (the brown wood).

At any rate, the Mursaat city is in the Maguuma Jungle, that looks like it's in the Shiverpeaks.

AshG
14-03-2007, 01:00
I know this sounds wierd... but I don't want the Mursaat to be the "bad guys" of C4. I'd rather see the remnants of Dhuum and Menzies' armies be the focal point. I just happen to be one of those guys who think the Mursaat are good, just misunderstood.

Natalie Black
14-03-2007, 01:19
If you guys remember the end of the Beta Gwen launched Meteors at us so I think that she helped the Charr in the Searing and so if we ally with the Charr in GW:EN then we and the Charr must find and stop Gwen before she sears the whole earth since she gets more powerful as she ages.

In Prophecies it says the Charr learned a way to break down the walls but it never said they could do it them-selfs and I think Gwen was a Mercenary and ran to the Catacombs before she Seared it and she made it look like it was the Charr that did it.

This may be a bit far fetched but could Quintus Antonius could you confirm what I believe.

Quintus Antonius
14-03-2007, 01:33
I am confident when I say that you are 100% wrong.

nubnub
14-03-2007, 03:07
Gwen's antics during the end of the beta were just the developers goofing around. If Gwen has anything to do with the new chapter, we'll probably learn about how she was taken to the Charr lands and used as a sacrifice. Maybe we'll have to rescue her. I think that's about as far as it will go.

keroshinigami
14-03-2007, 04:35
im not sure if the charr are playable in gw:2. but if so im scared its going to turn out like WoW with a good and bad race that can fight.

im mainly skeptical of a charr alliance in chapter 4 because of the king of ascalon. he wanted nothing to do with Krytans, and now people believe he will be hunky dory with the charr? it doesn't matter if the titans were behind it.

Nanashi
14-03-2007, 09:42
If you guys remember the end of the Beta Gwen launched Meteors at us so I think that she helped the Charr in the Searing and so if we ally with the Charr in GW:EN then we and the Charr must find and stop Gwen before she sears the whole earth since she gets more powerful as she ages.

In Prophecies it says the Charr learned a way to break down the walls but it never said they could do it them-selfs and I think Gwen was a Mercenary and ran to the Catacombs before she Seared it and she made it look like it was the Charr that did it.

This may be a bit far fetched but could Quintus Antonius could you confirm what I believe.

Yeah I'm with Quintis on that. We know that the Charr recieved their power from technically worshipping Abaddon, through his puppets - the Titans. It was even speculated in the cut scene these furry beasts performed rituals to create the searing, mainly in my opinion to take down the wall and whatever else they could accomplish (hence total destruction of Ascalon) I don't believe Gwen was behind any of it, I think it's some silly joke our comic relief people came up with to add a little laughter to this gruesome tale. Gwen is dead, she got crushed by a rock from the debris.


Gwen's antics during the end of the beta were just the developers goofing around. If Gwen has anything to do with the new chapter, we'll probably learn about how she was taken to the Charr lands and used as a sacrifice. Maybe we'll have to rescue her. I think that's about as far as it will go.

Yeah, that's about the only role I could see Gwen being placed in.


I know this sounds wierd... but I don't want the Mursaat to be the "bad guys" of C4. I'd rather see the remnants of Dhuum and Menzies' armies be the focal point. I just happen to be one of those guys who think the Mursaat are good, just misunderstood.

Quite a few of us believe their purpose in Prophecies was indeed misunderstood. My own theories, though not proven true as of yet, depict them as being thrown into something they weren't even aware of. I too hope that they are on our side and explained in further detail in the next Chapter; with one insane plot twist of some sort.


im mainly skeptical of a charr alliance in chapter 4 because of the king of ascalon. he wanted nothing to do with Krytans, and now people believe he will be hunky dory with the charr? it doesn't matter if the titans were behind it.

Ignorance is bliss my friend. The King wanted nothing to do with Kryta because he believed it was his fight (him and all of Ascalon alone) That is why he refused to listen to his own son, Rurik, when he came up with the idea.

However, if the Charr were to find out that the ones they thought out to be their gods, were frauds... same would apply to the Charr as did with the White Mantle. If allying is to be what the Charr shall do with the citizens of Ascalon, it wouldn't be hard to believe that they would do such out of feeling sorry for what damage they had done. The titans were a symbol of divine to the Charr, and finding out that the titans were but mere puppets of a greater god; the Charr would find themselves used and abused.

If you found out that everything you followed was a lie, after committing a horrible crime, wouldn't you seek forgiveness of some sort? That being thought about though, I don't think the King will be so lenient. We may, if Charr are to ally with us, go through a trial where these beasts will prove themselves.

hmmm Lord Of The Rings, Return of The King anybody? xD Just seems so fitting, all nations uniting together to stop the threat that is to be Dhuum and Manzies. Oh I can see it now, our last stand on a castle built into a mountain side and facing out to the hordes of tormented beings ready to devour our souls... and eat our eyes. xP

Quintus Antonius
14-03-2007, 15:29
I noticed something interesting today. I did a Google Image Search for "Mursaat", and I found three pictures of Mursaat, none of which matched the graphical quality of Prophecies (they were better). Then I noticed something else interesting, in one of the pictures, the Mursaat had a light green health bar over its head, meaning it was a neutral allied NPC. Unfortunantely, the links were all to foreign pages, and broken, so I cannot confirm the pictures to be legitamate. However, it did get me to thinking.

Obviously, the pictures are Google are either a misinterpretation, or a doctored shot. But it is nice to think that perhaps we will see Mursaat allies sometime in the future. Hey, we fight along side people who destroyed our homeland in Nightfall! So anything is possible.

themagicmoedee
14-03-2007, 20:39
Dhuum and Menzies are certainly potential avenues for exploration, and I can understand the sympathy for them as antagonists, but I don't think that they fit as the exclusive antagonists for the chapter. The standard migration is from Angry Dudes With Pointy Sticks to Mega Powerful Demonic Undead Masters of Destruction. I don't think you'll see Dhuum or Menzies functioning as the centerpiece of this coming campaign (or maybe any other, for that matter), in that having a cult of one of them pop up and start trouble is now a cliche at best, and you're not going to be able to hang with their particular variety of bad dudes for most of the campaign.

Minionman
14-03-2007, 20:46
Dhuum and/or Menzies seem good possibilities for a mix of antagonists (sort of like what prophecies had.), where they get involved somehow, but we don't fight them directly.

Quintus Antonius
14-03-2007, 21:11
Nightfall was pretty much just what you said. Abaddon's "power" was a joke, he was drawing it all from Dhuum and Menzies.

Sarah Frost
15-03-2007, 00:52
Okay then... let's compare...

http://whois.domaintools.com/guildwarsutopia.com confirmed to be a side project that never came to be... but was used...

http://whois.domaintools.com/eyeofthenorth.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/guildwarseyeofthenorth.com current topic of discussion... (this is currently avalible)

http://whois.domaintools.com/guildwars.com the Main site of Guild Wars...
http://whois.domaintools.com/guildwarsfactions.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/guildwarsnightfall.com

See anything that might be suggestive of anything?

As for why I added the "guildwars" to the start of the whois search is simply this... here are the searches for Factions and Nightfall without the guildwars start on the whois search...
http://whois.domaintools.com/factions.com
http://whois.domaintools.com/nightfall.com
They have nothing to do with Guild Wars...

What I was getting at (for those that haven't figured this out yet) was that, while "Eye of the North" was registered... and the registry looks similar to the registry for "Guild Wars Utopia"... "Guild Wars Eye of the North" was not registered...

And by looking at all of the other, actual Guild Wars registered web sites they ALL start with "Guild Wars," and the others that don't (-ie- Factions & Nightfall) have nothing to do with Guild Wars...

I posted this in the community forums in the hopes that some of this baseless speculation might be put to rest...

I REALLY hope that Eye of the North isn't the name of the next chapter... just to end this dumb GW:EN stuff... not that I don't want to know what happened to her.

I love the Lore forums here... and a lot of you are really good researchers... this topic is something I thought I wouldn't find here... since there are so many in the community section already. I'm kind of disappointed in you all.

Quintus Antonius
15-03-2007, 01:56
I love the Lore forums here... and a lot of you are really good researchers... this topic is something I thought I wouldn't find here... since there are so many in the community section already. I'm kind of disappointed in you all.

Let them have their speculation. Those of us who warn against it are usually a minority and are usually silenced by the masses who are pulled along by every manner of rumor.

At the end of the day, with this kind of stuff, all I can really say is wait and see.

Minionman
15-03-2007, 02:15
Nightfall was pretty much just what you said. Abaddon's "power" was a joke, he was drawing it all from Dhuum and Menzies.

He had his margonites, his demons, various people worshipping him, etc. That's some pretty good power, especially from one how is trapped and in prison. A lot of the things abaddon did weren't obvious signs of power, but he certainly had a big effect on what was going on in the world, more than Dhuum and Menzies did even with their own demons.


What the post was meant to mean is something like: First we fight some Charr, than for some reason Seers become threatening, so we fight them, than Dhuum and/or Menzies has some minions we have to deal with, but than we move on to some other issue.

(I actually just thought of something writing that, it would be neat if the final mission was something like a tense diplomatic meeting, wherewe, say, had ot get the charr and others to stoip fighting each other. Would be something different to do and work as an interesting twist. Of course, this would likely be hard to pull off.)

lavenbb
15-03-2007, 15:53
Wow, fastest growing thread in lore forum ever.. =O

I have but one argument against GW:EN though, it breaks the naming convention of campaigns, the name should consist of only one noun. Though people are saying it's not a standalone.. not that it matters to GW owners, so who cares :P

Other than that, most things had already been said in other threads.

Kailden Jera
15-03-2007, 18:22
Shouldn't we be waiting for the realease of the game before doing speculations?

Quintus Antonius
15-03-2007, 21:48
Yes, Kaliden, yes we should. Or at the very least, we should wait until some kind of real, confirmed information arises.

Nanashi
16-03-2007, 01:30
Shouldn't we be waiting for the realease of the game before doing speculations?


No, because there's nothing wrong with speculating what we may possibly encounter. In the end nobody loses and nobody wins as they are just theories and suspicions, in some cases some of us have the right idea and others, not so much.

But to come here brandishing what one says, even though they had not seen the product, and say it's fact; that's not acceptable.

Quintus Antonius
16-03-2007, 01:51
I'd prefer people kept unfounded speculations to themselves, or at least, to one of the threads already in existance outside of this forum. Most of what we say here ends up being taken as fact, and speculations aren't lore anyway, so it is a bit irresponsible to just post whatever we are thinking about at the time.

Sounds Risky
16-03-2007, 08:14
...like WoW with a good and bad race...

I won't reply any further about World of Warcraft, but this is completely incorrect and you really shouldn't be spreading misinformation like this.

keroshinigami
16-03-2007, 08:49
do tell me how it is completely incorrect of me to be scared the game may have two opposing playable races. please.

i wasn't really trying to spread misinformation, and im sorry you misinterpreted that. i was simply stating what i would rather not see the game become because i heard information about the charr being playable sometime in the future. i either missed or did not hear how we would be playing them.

also, please dont take my quote out of context to make it seem as though im saying somehting else.

the only reason i felt the possiblity of opposing races was because of, well, what i said after that sentence.

edit: sorry if i sound a little perturbed in this reply, i really shoulda left that idea out of my post, my main focus was the stuff about king adelbern.

Quintus Antonius
16-03-2007, 17:03
Don't start a conversation about WoW in this thread or this forum. Thank you.

Catsohori
16-03-2007, 22:22
I think everyone needs to get a life and stop jumping on badly given sources. As I have seen the inquirer, most likely because it does not site ArenaNet, says NCSoft is again Wrong on any issue. Secondly, as Quintus said, that picture is a Dwarven structure and is not Mursaat. I bears no eye of Janthir and does not fit the light or sandstone appearing rock that all Mursaat buildings were made of.

...I wish people would actually stop speculating based upon horribly given advise. Its like walking up to someone in Crete and asking which part of the Island Troy was located on...

D E A T H L I F E
21-03-2007, 18:07
ok so NOW we know the connection.....earthquakes open up tyria, cantha & elona and we go to fight alongside the Dwarves to beat the great destroyer. We wind up in the land of the Charr, asurians & blah blah.

I'm sad...i wanted the Mursaat :(

Isn't the great destroyer Dhumm? or was it Menzies?

Quintus Antonius
21-03-2007, 18:33
We don't know, it could be a totally new entity.

I'm convinced the Great Dwarf is Balthazar though.

Arkhan The Black
21-03-2007, 18:43
The Mursaat's are probably nearly on the edge of extinction now so I think they would want to hold a low profile. There is a chance they return in GW2 you know when human population is thinned out.

Quintus Antonius
21-03-2007, 18:49
I personally doubt the Mursaat are near extinction. I think they are hurting after the loss of their military, but they still have at least two cities. They aren't "towns", or "settlements", they are described as cities. That means a huge population.

aptaleonII
21-03-2007, 19:40
Small reminder: The Sylvari, a race we will be introduced to in EOTN, are said to live near Maguuma. The Mursaat have a city in the maguuma jungle. Don't give up hope just yet!

I'd like to throw something else in, as well: It has been stated we will be introduced to a massive network of underground tunnels in EOTN. now, who that we know of have a massive network of underground tunnels? The Dredge, of course! They have links to Tyria and Cantha, and are known to have a huge underground society under the Echovald...

Quintus Antonius
21-03-2007, 19:45
I personally predict the Dredge are enslaved by the Asuran just like they are by the Stone Summit. The Dredge are rather tragic, in that wherever they go, they are enslaved.

Смерть
21-03-2007, 19:58
What was wrong with your last thread Quintus? The pictures are gone :sad: .

I like your idea of the Dredge being enslaved by the Asuras btw.

D E A T H L I F E
21-03-2007, 20:36
Small reminder: The Sylvari, a race we will be introduced to in EOTN, are said to live near Maguuma. The Mursaat have a city in the maguuma jungle. Don't give up hope just yet!

Hope is still alive...

but why would Anet suddenly change the name of a complete race from Mursaat to Sylvari..makes no sense...although they MIGHT be the seer nation...who knows.

aptaleonII
21-03-2007, 20:51
oh no, i was suggesting that visiting the Sylvarian homeland might lead us to some Mursaat as well. I don't think they are the same race; the descriptions don't match.

Edit: It turns out i was wrong; the Asurans live near Maguuma, and the Sylvarian homeland was not revealed.

Quintus Antonius
21-03-2007, 21:29
Well the article says they are in-tune with nature. I'm assuming they are in Maguuma.

Zaxares
22-03-2007, 00:00
I wonder if the Sylvari have any links to the Druids of Maguuma?

Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 00:13
Well, we've seen the druids of Maguuma, and they don't look like Sylvani. Can you elaborate?

Goldfish God
22-03-2007, 00:38
well, the Druid were transformed by Melandru into spirit creatures, while Sylvari are already naturally attuned to nature. Though it's a big vague and hippyish, I can't imagine there are that many different ways you can be spiritually linked to nature without noticing other creatures of similar status.

Zaxares
22-03-2007, 00:40
Well, we've seen the druids of Maguuma, and they don't look like Sylvani. Can you elaborate?

True, but how is it that we've never heard of the Sylvani before now? Not even through myths and legends of the Krytans or the denizens of the Maguuma?

The Sylvani are described as naive, curious, magical fey-like beings with strong connections to the natural world. Maybe it's just me, but that makes me think of the Druids and the way they abandoned their physical forms to live with the spirit of nature. The Sylvari sound like they're the opposite; they are spiritual beings who have assumed physical forms. Could they be some sort of offshoot of the Druids? A part of their essence that wants to experience life in the physical world again?

Anyhow, this is all mostly speculation, but it's an avenue of thought that I find intriguing.

Soulse
22-03-2007, 00:44
True, but how is it that we've never heard of the Sylvani before now? Not even through myths and legends of the Krytans or the denizens of the Maguuma?

The Sylvani are described as naive, curious, magical fey-like beings with strong connections to the natural world. Maybe it's just me, but that makes me think of the Druids and the way they abandoned their physical forms to live with the spirit of nature. The Sylvari sound like they're the opposite; they are spiritual beings who have assumed physical forms. Could they be some sort of offshoot of the Druids? A part of their essence that wants to experience life in the physical world again?

Anyhow, this is all mostly speculation, but it's an avenue of thought that I find intriguing.

I don't think arenanet had a really strong set plan as to how the lore worked out when they started out. They seem to just be adding things as each subsequent chapter is realeased. Though, with GW2 it looks like they will have a hold of things in the lore department, I hope...

Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 00:45
Well, the article says they are a new race that arose because of current events. It doesn't even say they will be in GW:EN.

Kailden Jera
22-03-2007, 00:52
Let me describe in my own words how the Sylvari look like:

A young girl dressed in silk vests of a balance blend of white and green, with gold trims running throw her chest and sleeves. So many human traits but was clearly obvious she wasn't human. Her long green hair and pale skin showed her bound with nature, the way of Melandru, and her playful eyes brimmed with innocence gazed deep on the viewer. Such charismatic being that Sylvaris are.

Is describing the image a copyright felony? Anyway, Sylvaris don't look anything like Melandru's Druids. And not like Tolkien elves either.

jvxmtg
22-03-2007, 01:17
But how do you reckon there might be a connection from the factions storyline?

Ok not sure if this was already answered, but the connection of Faction's storyline to EotN are the Dredges. They supposedly found the Asuran catacomb tunnels which allowed them to escape from Sorrow's Furnace.

Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 01:59
Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Envoys pop up again. Afterall, this is supposedly suppose to tie up the remaining loose ends.

Goldfish God
22-03-2007, 02:32
Interesting point, that envoy with the animal head could be a Norn given the similarity in general bulk and the fact the guy has an animal head (even if it's not exactly a bear's) while Norns are all bear-guys.

Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 02:35
The Envoy with the bull's head is probably not an anthromophic creature, the Envoys markings are representative of the way in which they died, suggesting this Envoy was decapitated.

Goldfish God
22-03-2007, 03:00
While the Norns are bear-guys, it's unlikely that they are restricted to bears specifically as part of their culture, if not as part of their shape-shifting skills. While they may not be able to change into other animals, they may take them as totems that they feel is representative of their personality etc. Even if they are exclusively bear-lovers, this envoy might have effectively been criminalised for associated with a bull (maybe he has links with the bull in presear :laugh: ).

While his bull head might not be his head while he was living, it is what his head is now. So if he was decapitated, then maybe his current head is representative of his true animal/animal guide/etc, while the overall affliction suggests more than his head just being replaced with something at random (unless there are other Envoys who have a potplant and a whale instead of a head etc). :wink:

The Norns don't directly appear to have animal heads normally, but since the concept of anthropomorphism is basically the blend of man and animal, the half-animal/half-man that this envoy represents, at least in physical form, seems similar to what Norns might be spiritually represented by.

Quintus Antonius
22-03-2007, 03:02
Or they were the ones who decapitated him.

Nanashi
22-03-2007, 07:28
While the Norns are bear-guys, it's unlikely that they are restricted to bears specifically as part of their culture, if not as part of their shape-shifting skills. While they may not be able to change into other animals, they may take them as totems that they feel is representative of their personality etc. Even if they are exclusively bear-lovers, this envoy might have effectively been criminalised for associated with a bull (maybe he has links with the bull in presear :laugh: )

Wait how are Norn bear people? I thought they were just mini giants who populated the Norther Shiver Peeks...


Let me describe in my own words how the Sylvari look like:

A young girl dressed in silk vests of a balance blend of white and green, with gold trims running throw her chest and sleeves. So many human traits but was clearly obvious she wasn't human. Her long green hair and pale skin showed her bound with nature, the way of Melandru, and her playful eyes brimmed with innocence gazed deep on the viewer. Such charismatic being that Sylvaris are.

Is describing the image a copyright felony? Anyway, Sylvaris don't look anything like Melandru's Druids. And not like Tolkien elves either.

Sounds much like a Nymph if you ask me though the green hair kind of throws it off. Isn't that what a nymph is though, a sentient being attuned to nature?

correct me if I'm wrong. hmmm

Kailden Jera
22-03-2007, 08:41
Sounds much like a Nymph if you ask me though the green hair kind of throws it off. Isn't that what a nymph is though, a sentient being attuned to nature?

Yeah, Nymph are a good bet. Cute, naive and friendly Nymphs. That or my description is over exaggerated.

And as for envoys, so that's why the guy had a bull head? I thought that the envoy only reaped the souls on the continent they were killed. So there should also be a group of envoy in Tyria and Elona right?

Vexenna
22-03-2007, 10:08
- General Morgahn assumes leadership of Kourna until a proper replacement can be found.


In the cinematic at the end of Nightfall, was Morgahn not shown with a group of training sunspears? I was almost certain he was.

Kailden Jera
22-03-2007, 11:52
In the cinematic at the end of Nightfall, was Morgahn not shown with a group of training sunspears? I was almost certain he was.

Well, he did befriend with "us" the Sunspears. As a leader (and the last general we kept alive in the entire campaign) he could have done a alliance/peace treaty with Istan. Probably he enlisted his Kournan soldiers as a part of the Sunspear army and while doing so teach the sunspears soldiers Kournan tactics.

I don't have sources for the following information, but based on pure deduction I can also say that Dunkoro would become the next Spearmarshall. As I don't recall the Sunspears having a secound in comand that could replace Kormir.

The sunpears can't be leaded by a god can they?

Hopefully this will be covered (and cleared up) in GW:EN as it should be.

Goldfish God
22-03-2007, 17:23
Wait how are Norn bear people? I thought they were just mini giants who populated the Norther Shiver Peeks...

PC Gamer thingy mentions that they have the racial ability to tranform into werebear type things.