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SiDima
10-05-2007, 20:44
Spiritual Pain - 10 1 30
Spell. Target foe takes 15..63 damage. If that foe is near a spirit, all other nearby foes take 15..63 damage and this Skill recharges instantly if it hits a Spirit.

A single star skill for any kind of gameplay; in desperate need of a buff as most mesmer skills are.

A possibe fix would be:
Spiritual Pain - 10 1 20
Spell. Target foe takes 15..63 damage. If that foe is near a spirit, all other nearby foes take 15..63 damage and this Skill recharges instantly and you gain 5 energy if it hits a Spirit.

This is my suggestion, feel free to post yours - devs might actually browse this forum once right before buffing mesmers(if they ever actually buff us that is).

windcaller
10-05-2007, 21:23
i still want the 100+ damage one. it comboed so well with assassin's promise i can never forget...

Antillio
10-05-2007, 21:23
i find that a nice buff, i mean how often in pve do we need to bash spirits and even then we must be lucky to have enemies around for the aoe dmg , on top of that spamming a 10 eng skill is not healthy for the energy so i find the +5 eng on spirit a nice touch and a 20 recharge is a must.

way to many and i meaaaan waaaaay to many mesmer skills cost either to much or have a to long recharge its ridonkulous

MaximumSquid
10-05-2007, 21:52
I'd take the old one back with a higher energy cost . . . say 15e.

Dammerung
11-05-2007, 02:46
Cut recharge to like 20, unconditional AoE, increase damage to around Shatter Enchament's level, maybe slightly less.

Increase cast time to 2 sec.

RD
11-05-2007, 04:37
I like this suggested version a lot.

fallot
11-05-2007, 10:48
i still want the 100+ damage one. it comboed so well with assassin's promise i can never forget...


I'd take the old one back with a higher energy cost . . . say 15e.

No! Bad! The problem with the skill was originally it was too much compressed damage. Upping the damage is the worst possible thing that can be done, unless maybe if the cast time is also increased. Having the old skill back with an increased energy cost would not fix the old problem, it would be used the same way to the same effect.

windcaller
11-05-2007, 11:49
Spiritual Pain
15/2/20
Target foe suffers 14...83 (106) damage. If a spirit is in the area, all nearby foes suffer 15...63 (79) damage and this spell recharges instantly.

Combine this with assassin's promise and you are ready to go to PvE.

Saneah
11-05-2007, 11:53
At this point I'd be happy with "a spirit" meaning ANY spirit and not an enemy spirit.

Last time I checked it did not activate on spirits allied to you. Whether that's a bug or how they intended it is not my place to guess.

Indigo Montari
11-05-2007, 12:13
I would like to see the old version of SP back now that we have hard mode

PheBelladona
11-05-2007, 14:53
i quite like the change, very good.

to those who want it back to its disgusting form its unbalanced for pvp if you like numbers in pve GO MAKE AN ELE!

windcaller
11-05-2007, 18:35
i quite like the change, very good.

to those who want it back to its disgusting form its unbalanced for pvp if you like numbers in pve GO MAKE AN ELE!

any intelligent arguments you can bring except for this overrated one?

TheDivider
11-05-2007, 19:33
Its not bad ( used to be better of course ) As to the change to AI, I guess spamming it could be easier ONE time with an additional recharge of 5-6 seconds ( not tested )

PheBelladona
11-05-2007, 20:33
any intelligent arguments you can bring except for this overrated one?

im not sure i need to give any more justification that arguement is enough. play mesmer to subvert your foes, control their movements, manipulant your foes skill bar and energy not deal them a massive package of armour ignoring damage in under a second.. spiritual pain was stupidly overpowered - its alteration was necessary (there is no arguement against this) however i appreciate this concept that is put forward by the OP i think it would be a nice ZBesk reward for targeting this spell well.

David Holtzman
11-05-2007, 21:34
any intelligent arguments you can bring except for this overrated one?

Perhaps not quite elegant in form, the argument remains sound nevertheless. The old SP was changed due to imbalance in PvP. Claiming that now we have HM or other such things just entirely misses the point. Any proposed change not sensitive to the reason it was changed in the first place is doomed to be rejected merely on that basis. A proposed reversion to its older form had better come equipped with an explanation as to why it would no longer be imbalanced in PvP. An argument which, I would suggest, very few are qualified to give and those few know well enough that it cannot be done in this case. Changing SP to be a more effective skill is, I think, a good notion and one worth exploring. Ignoring the reasons it was changed originally is downright foolish.

Trouveur
11-05-2007, 23:39
I saw a good suggestion for SP long ago :

Change it from Spiritual Pain to Unnatural Pain.

Unnatural Pain - 10 1 30
Spell. Target foe takes 15..63 damage. If that foe is unnatural, all other nearby foes take 15..63 damage and this Skill recharges twice as fast.

"Unnatural" would include all foes that are not natural, like afflicted one, undeads, daemons, margonites, shiro'ken, spirits...

SiDima
12-05-2007, 03:00
That does NOT fix the skill. It helps it in pve, the damage however is mediocre for 15 sec recharge and 10e cost and the conditional nature is still a pain. Not to mention this skill never would see light in pvp.

Dammerung
12-05-2007, 04:27
SP's original form wasn't really all that good in PvE, in PvP it was overpowered as a spike, but in PvE its 30 seconds recharge hurts its DoT heavily.

windcaller
12-05-2007, 09:25
SP's original form wasn't really all that good in PvE, in PvP it was overpowered as a spike, but in PvE its 30 seconds recharge hurts its DoT heavily.

Sp+Assassin's Promise.


@PheBelladona and David Holtzman: We're talking about SP as if it were the only overpowered spike skill. Invoke lightning does the same ammount of damage +25%AP. Yes, it is an elite, but: it's AoE, 15s recharge, 10cost.

From a pure PvE aspect: 'subverting your enemy's power' is complete uber crap for a computer driven character. I'm sure the Kournan Priest won't actually give a damn about me casting Ether Phantom on him. But he will give a damn if he's dead in 3 seconds.

At it's former glory it was a tad over the top, but now nobody uses it. Some of you don't actually give a damn about it. Why? Dunno ask yourselves how much you care about the mesmer proffession.

Mesmers got nerfed due to successive whines and complaints and because newbies couldn't find a counter to it. So, instead of buffing the mesmer counters, ANet literally destroyed tons of skill.

Mesmers had this one skill that shined. I actually got asked to get into groups when SP was in its former glory because peeps knew i was actually doing something! It was a miracle: a mesmer getting asked to get into a group! ZOMG! No way!

And then came the nerf bat and ruined the hope. At this point i don't really care about PvP. HA is just spike builds, whoever scores the first gets the win. On Broken Tower you just have to talk to another team to gank the 3rd opposing team, and no skill is required to win.

Regarding GvG, i don't know alot as i didn't play in a while, but i doubt mesmer got out of the 'E-Surge/Migraine' template. And i really insist on re-stating the fact that those builds were out since Prophecies was launched. TWO years ago.

However i'm pretty sure you already knew this.

In conclusion: give us back our teddy bear!

Maybe as a PvE only skill...but i want it back :cry:

Dammerung
12-05-2007, 11:32
Plus MoR and Glyph of Renewal too right?
The thing is to use SP you have to pair it up with an elite, that's very restricting. In the case of AP and GoR your secondary is also being restrict.

David Holtzman
12-05-2007, 12:01
@PheBelladona and David Holtzman: We're talking about SP as if it were the only overpowered spike skill. Invoke lightning does the same ammount of damage +25%AP. Yes, it is an elite, but: it's AoE, 15s recharge, 10cost.

Let me see if I understand this. You are actually trying to make the "but everyone is doing it!" argument? Well fine, but that means I get to give you the traditional response: If Invoke Lightning jumped off a bridge, would you jump off too?


From a pure PvE aspect: 'subverting your enemy's power' is complete uber crap for a computer driven character. I'm sure the Kournan Priest won't actually give a damn about me casting Ether Phantom on him. But he will give a damn if he's dead in 3 seconds.

No, I'm pretty sure computers don't give a damn about anything at all. Whether they're dead or edenied, I don't think they care either way.


Regarding GvG, i don't know alot as i didn't play in a while, but i doubt mesmer got out of the 'E-Surge/Migraine' template. And i really insist on re-stating the fact that those builds were out since Prophecies was launched. TWO years ago.

Think very, very carefully on this. Do you really want to preface a paragraph with "i don't know alot [sic]" and then go on to talk as if you did know, especially in a place where I can see you doing it?

Manwithtwohands
12-05-2007, 12:08
No, I'm pretty sure computers don't give a damn about anything at all. Whether they're dead or edenied, I don't think they care either way.

After attending several Kournan Priest support groups I beg to differ. :cry: