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View Full Version : Invasion : suggestion for a competitive AB arena



Patccmoi
24-05-2007, 18:49
I and many others i know always wanted AB to have a 'competitive' version, where you can pick your full team, etc. Because AB has the potential to be a great PvP type, the main problem being that more often than not there is around 20 quite bad players in the game (assuming your team isn't, otherwise it can go up to 24!). This kills any form of competition in AB and limits it to very casual PvP.

Now i'm fine with leaving the current AB where it is. It's a nice place for people to just relax, try stuff with no pressure, and for people who hardly PvPed before to get a little feel of it. But what i'd want to see is a competitive option to AB. My idea for it is what i call 'Invasion'.

The main goals of it would be to present an alternative to HA for casual competitive PvP. Not as serious as GvG where you get penalized for losing (rating loss) and you're limited in who you can invite, but with real reward and progression similar to what HA offer.

So here's my idea for it:


Invasion would allow you to pick your full team, which would remain 3 teams of 4 though. This is required to limit skills like Heal Party, etc. which become ridiculous with 12 players. The 8 other players could be shown as 'allies'. It would likely work with everyone forming teams of 4 and an interface to 'link' 3 teams of 4 together.

1 Hero would be allowed for each team of 4. This is to ease team formation a bit, as 12 people is a lot. This would still limit Heroes to 3/12 slots, which isn't 'heroway' or anything like that.


In Invasion, you would 'progress' through AB maps. The territory line wouldn't affect Invasion at all. Each team would start in their fort, trying to kick the 'invaders' (the other side) out of it. You obviously have a pretty big advantage there just because of the map, so even so-so teams should manage to beat decent teams once in a while, and if you can't beat them in this map forget about the others!

As you win, you would work your way through every map until you reach the enemy fort, where you become the invaders. Rewards for winning would increase for every map (likely increased Kurzick/Luxon faction gain). When you become the invader, you will face teams entering on the other side. Winning an invasion (i.e. last map) would allow you to 'pillage' the fort. I'd picture this as a 'Buried Treasure' of sort, with something similar to what you get in those and that every1 can click once. A gold item, or some plats, or a ruby, etc. Hell, maybe you could even put Ectos and Obsidian Shards. I wouldn't put the very rare stuff you get in HoH though cause there can be more than 1 'invading' team at a time and if yoo many win this the rarity would drop too much. Would be nice if there if a few unique stuff was added to the place, similar to the mini-ghostly in HoH, but that's secondary, the point isn't to add rewards to the game but to add a fun PvP game type where you can do competitive AB, playing in all the different maps regularly and not just watching that line not really move.

If there isn't enough team playing, you would just skip certain maps the same way you can get skips in HA. Atm i think that you could stay at the 'end map' of the other side for as long as you win (since you're at a big disadvantage, any half-decent team should manage to kick you out of there soon enough), but if it's too problematic there could always be a maximum win there, say after 3 wins you get a better chest and you have to restart.



So that's my idea. I'd be happy if this kind of arena (ofc i don't really expect exactly this, it's just a suggestion, but a competitive AB of sort) could be added along with GW:EN, considering that atm nothing was announced for PvP, and this seem like a fairly small addition to make as all the maps are there, the game type is there, all that's needed is something to organize teams and add some sort of reward.

If you have any suggestions or comments don't hesitate to add them!

IdahoaJr
24-05-2007, 22:56
I like the idea. it would make AB closer to pvp than pve. the only problem is when all 3 teams get on a vent server together it could get into a rather hectic spikes. death rates would go through the roof :p

mmorpg man
25-05-2007, 08:01
why don't you put this idea onto the suggestion forum and see the reaction there?

Patccmoi
25-05-2007, 14:53
why don't you put this idea onto the suggestion forum and see the reaction there?

Hmm, good point. I didn't really think about posting it there. Maybe a mod could move it, as it's not a good idea to just copy threads all over the place.

skaspaakssa
26-05-2007, 14:55
I like the idea a lot! I could see group-forming still being a problem, but the idea sounds fun enough that, if implemented correctly, I think there would be quite a lot of people.


I like the idea. it would make AB closer to pvp than pve. the only problem is when all 3 teams get on a vent server together it could get into a rather hectic spikes. death rates would go through the roof :p

That does seem like it would be a problem, although you could probably have enough people to stop the spikes too. Maybe having an environment effect for extra health, or a shrine bonus?

Patccmoi
26-05-2007, 22:47
That does seem like it would be a problem, although you could probably have enough people to stop the spikes too. Maybe having an environment effect for extra health, or a shrine bonus?

Why? Since when is AB won by spikes? There isn't even DP in AB, and the goal is mainly to cap shrines which forces people to split. Spikes would be absolutely insignificant, sure a spike team could likely do some unstoppable spikes, but if they stick 12 people together they will simply lose.

Some Dude
27-05-2007, 11:07
This seems like a well thought out suggestion but I have a couple of reservations:

Problem 1: It will move the few skilled players from casual AB into competitive AB, when AB is a format that struggles to field teams on both sides frequently (shown by the 5+ minute wait to get an opposing party). This would kind of kill the casual AB side, and then you are left with only RA if you wanna have some quick noob-slaying fun.

Problem 2: It will be really tough to find 12 players for most guilds. Therefore there would be a lot of pugging of separate teams of 4. Then when one team comes along that did manage to get 12 people together, they would have a pretty big advantage.

Problem 3: The problem with progressing through the maps based on wins is that the worst players will end up defending the home fort (there will be some teams of good players, but they will quickly advance). This isn't a problem if you don't care about the whole line on the map thing, but I kind of like that aspect of AB, it promotes a whole camraderie deal.

I have a slightly different concept on how to improve AB that draws on your ideas. Tell me what you think:

- The map / line progression system work as they do now
- But teams are paired up based on "skill level". This is easy to calculate: just determine what fraction of the total points score your team earned at the end of each match. If they earned ~ 33% they stay at the same skill level, if they earned <<33% they move down a skill level (or stay at bottom), and if they got >> 33% they move up a skill level.
- So after a couple of runs, you start to get teams of 12v12 that are of roughly the same skill. You could give them increased rewards in terms of faction etc, and also make them responsible for more of the line movement on the map (that way even if, say, all the luxons on at a particular time were a bunch of noobs, a few really skilled luxons could come along and make a significant difference to the battle lines).
- At the end map if you defeat the other team in their base, there could be a chest drop. The chance of getting a good drop would scale with skill level. ie if you are vs another team with high skill level AND they have the home advantage, you will rarely beat them. When you do, you get a pretty juicy reward.
- I think this system would attract more players to AB since it allows players of all skill levels to enjoy their matches, and offers increased rewards similar to good HA teams.
- It could attract even more players if they opened up to those with only Prophecies or only Nightfall (though they couldn't really see the line move, but ah well).
- I'd replace the old AB with this AB to maximize number of players.

Some Dude
29-05-2007, 04:19
Does the absence of flaming indicate that this is a good idea, or that nobody looks at this forum anyway? :/

newusernew
05-06-2007, 15:53
i like the idea of invasion, but im not sure if i want to pvp with heroes..


This seems like a well thought out suggestion but I have a couple of reservations:

I have a slightly different concept on how to improve AB that draws on your ideas. Tell me what you think:

- The map / line progression system work as they do now
- But teams are paired up based on "skill level". This is easy to calculate: just determine what fraction of the total points score your team earned at the end of each match. If they earned ~ 33% they stay at the same skill level, if they earned <<33% they move down a skill level (or stay at bottom), and if they got >> 33% they move up a skill level.
- So after a couple of runs, you start to get teams of 12v12 that are of roughly the same skill. You could give them increased rewards in terms of faction etc, and also make them responsible for more of the line movement on the map (that way even if, say, all the luxons on at a particular time were a bunch of noobs, a few really skilled luxons could come along and make a significant difference to the battle lines).
- At the end map if you defeat the other team in their base, there could be a chest drop. The chance of getting a good drop would scale with skill level. ie if you are vs another team with high skill level AND they have the home advantage, you will rarely beat them. When you do, you get a pretty juicy reward.
- I think this system would attract more players to AB since it allows players of all skill levels to enjoy their matches, and offers increased rewards similar to good HA teams.
- It could attract even more players if they opened up to those with only Prophecies or only Nightfall (though they couldn't really see the line move, but ah well).
- I'd replace the old AB with this AB to maximize number of players.

i like the idea of 'skill level', but how do you measure players who intercept caps?

the frontier lines have nothing to do with ab.. town ownership is determined by alliance faction.. i'd say faction farmers have more control over where the line is

Dogbert
08-06-2007, 18:36
..when AB is a format that struggles to field teams on both sides frequently (shown by the 5+ minute wait to get an opposing party).

Agree. The idea is good but it's hard enough as it is to get two teams without having to wait 10 minutes between every damn game.

shardfenix
09-06-2007, 23:58
The bad players/builds are what make AB fun. If everyone in AB was competitive, it would be identical to HA, down to the objectives.

Some Dude
12-06-2007, 08:46
i like the idea of 'skill level', but how do you measure players who intercept caps?

I can't really think of a good way to do that, but as this would encourage people to stay on the move I don't think it's that bad a thing ;)


the frontier lines have nothing to do with ab.. town ownership is determined by alliance faction.. i'd say faction farmers have more control over where the line is

I actually believe (from my experience - could be mistaken) that the lines are a direct result of AB. I was under the impression that a particular alliance could only bid on a town if it was under their faction's control (eg a luxon alliance can't bid on a town on the kurzick side of the line).

However I've never been in an alliance that actually cared to donate faction to the cause, so I am basing this solely on the fact that when I am playing on one side and we are winning lots / getting slaughtered heavily, the line moves accordingly.

Anyone know how this actually works? Is it based just on AB, just on alliance contributions, or a combo?


The bad players/builds are what make AB fun. If everyone in AB was competitive, it would be identical to HA, down to the objectives.

I too enjoy pwning all the noobs, but given the facts that:
a) The objectives are nothing like HA
b) The maps are nothing like HA
c) There is no altar capping or ghostlies
d) It's mainly pve really
e) You don't get fame
f) There is a 'noob stigma' associated with AB that precludes many top-tier players from entering it
g) The pairings from individual 4 man teams with other teams would still be random, discouraging elitism.

.... I couldn't disagree with you more ^^

Another Fess
20-06-2007, 07:27
This is good idea, and this mode MUST be cleared of any things like base defenders (or at least make them killable as it was in Factions pre-relise weeekend). And you can win if you will cap enemy base and rez shrine so they wont have place to rez (even if enemy has all other shrines). And you can cap enemy base, he can cap your base and all will be ok. But points must remain as time limit. And idea of ranks is pretty good for me.

Edit:
And if base defenders will become killable they should be added to Temple of Balthazar so ppl can find way to kill them and not be killed by them at one time.