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View Full Version : Signet of Devotion + Deny Hexes- Yah or Nay?



penguinious
27-05-2007, 04:20
Our team has 2 monks- A standard RC and LoD Infuser, who are both running holy veil.

We also have a paragon with expel hexes, and purge signet....

However, whenever we run into another hex team (We are also a hex team), we find that our hex removal is completely insufficient... sometimes, we can win through outhexing them back, but more often than not we lose, because of lack of superior skill.


My question is- Why do I not see signet of devotion used with deny hexes often? It seems like a great way to fight hex teams... Since most often hex teams will ALWAYS have a cover hex, which makes holy veil rather useless.

I was thinking about dropping the aegis chain on both monks along with holy veil, and replacing it with Signet of Devotion + Expel, simply because Aegis burns energy, is interrupt fodder, and is then usually mirrored off with ease.

Suggestions? 2 Holy Veils, Expel, and Purge Signet just can't compete with 2 mesmers, a necro, and a ele spamming shutdown hexes all over the place. Especially when expel is usually signet of humilitied for the entire dam game.

Productivity
27-05-2007, 07:12
You can't preveil with deny is what usually decides it in favor of veil for me. All the recharging divine favour skills in the world aren't going to help you when you're stuck under a migraine and can't cast it.

You've hit on one of the key problems at the moment, that hexes are so far ahead on the power curve compared to hex removals. Unless you have a plethora of counters (NR, elite removal, multiple interupts etc.) you are going to struggle.

If your expel is getting routinely hum.sigged, then a caster with interupts should start timing it's interupt onto it.

Some Dude
27-05-2007, 09:32
There's also the whole having problem of having to cast sig devo a lot, which means you are standing skill not casting other stuff a lot, which means people die unless you have teh uber micro ie you are Soul Wedding.

Nazpharoz
27-05-2007, 15:18
signet of devotion + deny hexes is a very nice combo.
I use this already for a long time and works perfect. If you face a migrainer, just move back. he needs to overextend to cover his migraine 2 times, otherwhise he just wasted his migraine. Later on they will cover you with around 4 hexes almost at same time. (focussed hex throw away?)

I used holy veil as RC a long time and still use this in HA above deny hexes.
If i'm LoD/infuser i would stay with holy veil, for pre-veiling yourself (you don't want to loose your infuse health by diversion or let it be interupted by shame).

Aegis is nice to have on your prot monk, however think around the healer who has it at this moment. Against some parties it is usefull, but against the most it is for him a large energy pit what can be used more effective around.

cranialexodus
27-05-2007, 16:27
I'm extremely fond of deny+devotion on prot monks, I've liked signet of devotion itself for a while and deny convinces me to bring it over gift of health+veil fairly often. SoD, RC etc.

Ace Bear
27-05-2007, 17:30
If you don't have at least one Holy Veil then ya better put Hex Breaker on your Infuser. Just so much that preveil for an Infuser can do.

ekiru
27-05-2007, 20:22
If you are going to use Deny, don't use Signet of Devotion with it. Use divine spirit. Signet of Devotion is just bad. At least Divine Spirit allows you a few seconds of massive prot spamming. Also, consider instead of devotion/spirit + deny, veil + purge.

Signet of Devotion is a weak heal for immense time investment. Deny is a pretty weak anti-hex stack skill, anyway. Also, if you are using devotion for it, once any enemy rangers or mesmers know it, they'll know you're going to be using Deny just after devotion, so they're probably going to send an interrupts your way and catch your deny, because you have a very small window of time to use deny after devotion.

So, in conclusion, no to devotion + deny, maybe to divine spirit + deny, yes to veil + purge imo.

penguinious
27-05-2007, 21:04
If you are going to use Deny, don't use Signet of Devotion with it. Use divine spirit. Signet of Devotion is just bad. At least Divine Spirit allows you a few seconds of massive prot spamming. Also, consider instead of devotion/spirit + deny, veil + purge.

Signet of Devotion is a weak heal for immense time investment. Deny is a pretty weak anti-hex stack skill, anyway. Also, if you are using devotion for it, once any enemy rangers or mesmers know it, they'll know you're going to be using Deny just after devotion, so they're probably going to send an interrupts your way and catch your deny, because you have a very small window of time to use deny after devotion.

So, in conclusion, no to devotion + deny, maybe to divine spirit + deny, yes to veil + purge imo.


I don't know, it seems like that would just make the hex team even more powerful if you use purge.

A hexway's goal is to burn out all your energy, and then have you crumble under the massive pressure, right? Well, generally no matter how ub3r you are at weapon swapping, you will still lose 10-15 energy from purging. Also, there is that ungodly 20 second recharge with purge.

Note- My expel hexes paragon also often has purge signet, since he can easily just get the energy back by spamming GftE over and over again.

But yes, I agree with using spirit over devotion. Devotion is a pretty weak heal, and it can leave you in a sticky situation, plus divine spirit has such a godly long recharge (Never thought I'd say that)... Plus using it and then spamming RC like a madman has it's benefits.

ekiru
27-05-2007, 21:17
I don't know, it seems like that would just make the hex team even more powerful if you use purge.

A hexway's goal is to burn out all your energy, and then have you crumble under the massive pressure, right? Well, generally no matter how ub3r you are at weapon swapping, you will still lose 10-15 energy from purging. Also, there is that ungodly 20 second recharge with purge.

Note- My expel hexes paragon also often has purge signet, since he can easily just get the energy back by spamming GftE over and over again.

But yes, I agree with using spirit over devotion. Devotion is a pretty weak heal, and it can leave you in a sticky situation, plus divine spirit has such a godly long recharge (Never thought I'd say that)... Plus using it and then spamming RC like a madman has it's benefits.

Purge is not energy-intensive, in fact, its energy-intensivity decreases even further the more under pressure you are.

Also, how are you running Purge on your Expel Paragon? P/Me/Mo? Hax?

B Ephekt
28-05-2007, 02:18
I love Veil too much to give it up. Devotion/Divine Spirit + Deny is nice, but it's easier to just let your monks do what they're comfortable with and build hex removal around that.

penguinious
29-05-2007, 06:56
Purge is not energy-intensive, in fact, its energy-intensivity decreases even further the more under pressure you are.

Also, how are you running Purge on your Expel Paragon? P/Me/Mo? Hax?

sorry- forgot to mention- we swap to mes/mo with rezz chant + purge and expel if we run into too many hex teams.

Oh, and diversion, shame, but that's another topic :laugh:

Productivity
30-05-2007, 15:36
Well, generally no matter how ub3r you are at weapon swapping, you will still lose 10-15 energy from purging.

If you are losing 15+ energy on a purge, you're riding so high on energy you're hardly under pressure that it barely matters.

erk
01-06-2007, 03:00
SoD is a pretty slow cast for a Monk, to justify it you would want to have a lot in Divine Favor like 12+1+1. If you just need another DF enchant so you can remove more hexes then Watchful Healing will give you 10sec.

I am not a great fan of pre Veil, if you can put up with the fiddly two click process then HV is an ok hex removal from another char, but most other hex removal skills will do just as well as HV. On the Monk it's too easy to identify and strip/shatter, and costs way too much energy to maintain all the time, Hex Breaker is more efficient. It's dangerous to burden the Monk's valuable energy maintaining continuous enchantments, when we all know that running a Monk out of energy is the best shutdown!

ekiru
04-06-2007, 03:42
I am not a great fan of pre Veil, if you can put up with the fiddly two click process then HV is an ok hex removal from another char, but most other hex removal skills will do just as well as HV. On the Monk it's too easy to identify and strip/shatter, and costs way too much energy to maintain all the time, Hex Breaker is more efficient. It's dangerous to burden the Monk's valuable energy maintaining continuous enchantments, when we all know that running a Monk out of energy is the best shutdown!

Well, if you preveil, the only clue a mesmer/whatever on the enemy team has is that you have some enchantment on you. There are a lot of enchantments that might be on you, Aegis, lots of things. Moreover, if they are shattering your veil, they aren't shattering prot or aegis. Hex Breaker is obvious, because it has such a relatively short duration at low Domination, and it is much easier to stop. Besides, you don't permanently maintain veil, you remove it once you get a hex on you that needs to be removed. If you use hex breaker, you get hit with a cover hex, then the hex that matters, which isn't prevented. Against a preveil, all they can do is hope they manage to get their cover hex on in the milliseconds before you drop remove veil, which isn't likely due to the double casting time.
Holy Veil can be used more often than hex breaker too. I run hex breaker occasionally as a monk, but only rarely, for example, in an NR/Tranq team, in which you couldn't afford to use veil, but still need a counter to diversions or shames on your infuser.

B Ephekt
04-06-2007, 04:18
Well, if you preveil, the only clue a mesmer/whatever on the enemy team has is that you have some enchantment on you.
Um, how about their hexes taking twice as long to cast?

If you can't mange Veil you're probably bad though.

Savsuds
04-06-2007, 11:57
I love the use of veil. Preveil those frontline attackers, so that your midline can have a better chance to interrupt the melee hate. If your frontline cannot cause any pressure of them, your backline is gonna be doomed sooner or later.

Keep your warriors clean, and they will take care of you.

Selene Raseth
06-06-2007, 03:07
As others have stated, the best way to get good use of Deny Hexes is with Divine Spirit, and Watchful Healing is very nice with any monk build that has Contemplation of Purity. A huge heal boost that can rid you of hexes and conditions, and all of them are based in the Divine Favour skill group, allowing for customization as heal, prot, or hybrid.

Dogbert
06-06-2007, 20:16
Originally Posted by ekiru
Well, if you preveil, the only clue a mesmer/whatever on the enemy team has is that you have some enchantment on you.


Um, how about their hexes taking twice as long to cast?

If you can't mange Veil you're probably bad though.

I think he means that the mesmer only knows you have veil on he doesn't know if it's covered by another enchantment or not.

shardfenix
08-06-2007, 09:18
Signet of Devotion is a bad skill. Use rejuvenation. If you want hex removal power, bring divine spirit or something.

Warskullx
09-06-2007, 18:20
Sig of Devo+Deny can work, just make sure your build has strong divine and the other monk has veil.

Veil+Deny are actually a very strong combo. If you aren't under high pressure one monk can maintain a veil while allowing the other to cut through the hexes with deny.

Most of the time gift of health is your stronger clean up heal than sig of devo, so you may want to also consider Divine spirit+deny on some builds.

exjeh
14-06-2007, 17:11
i use signet of devotion + deny hexes to be honest. When i'm prot monk i cast signet of devotion on targets where i shouldn't spend my energy for , so sod is mostly recharging anyway , SoD is a pretty good heal and u can still cancel the long casting time for spikes without losing energy.

thats about it , some people seem to run long recharge divine fav spells so they could efectivly use Deny hexes , but i think its a waiste of a skill slot.

thx for reading this