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View Full Version : Kisu! inadvertantly gave wepons that lead to the Elonian War



Karn the Betrayer
18-07-2007, 10:46
I noticed Kisu was at Gandara in a Opening movie supoosidly giving siege weapons to the Kournans, I thought Canthans never helped foreign powers?

Nanashi
18-07-2007, 12:18
Where's your sources? o.O

yakslappin
18-07-2007, 12:59
e_O.. err there is NO kisu..

istani side= melonni,arlon,suhl..and I'm not sure who else.


Edit: ya know im sure it might not be those guys.. but it still isnt kisu :p

Karuro
18-07-2007, 13:07
It was in one of the preview clips iirc.
They probably just used his model to show the area.

Eiri
18-07-2007, 13:12
Its at the beggining of the first Nightfall preview video in the official web.

yakslappin
18-07-2007, 15:44
ah I see now... but on the same i see an ascalon soldier there too so i doubt it really has any real meaning.

Santax
18-07-2007, 16:18
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3465/kisuar7.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3465/kisuar7.jpg)

Here is a frame of the video where Kisu and two officials are conversing with some Elonian soldiers and a captain... it's unclear whether they're Kournan or Vabbian, since it's possible that the Vabbian model was used as placeholder while the Kournan one was in development. It should be noted that in this screen a player character can be seen standing in that area of Gandara, despite the fact that that area is inaccessible as an explorable area. Therefore, I'd say it's likely part of a quest or alternative storyline that was considered, but ultimately abandoned.

Barinthus
18-07-2007, 20:28
Ok but where are weapons and seige weapons?

Смерть
18-07-2007, 21:41
Ok but where are weapons and seige weapons?

Yea, where are the weapons of mass destruction!?
Sorry, had too.

__________________________________

Maybe they are on the boat. An assumption though as is, they have already handed them out, look everyones armed!

lol

Kailden Jera
18-07-2007, 22:06
I think think this should be considered cannon to the actual lore.

Karn the Betrayer
18-07-2007, 22:57
it said it on wiki

Karuro
18-07-2007, 23:00
Remember that anyone can edit a wiki.
Hence we don't look at those much, only to grab things which are also said In-game/Manuscripts.

Karn the Betrayer
18-07-2007, 23:08
well some of that stuf is kinda correct

Scott the Green
18-07-2007, 23:54
I think think this should be considered cannon to the actual lore.

I'm assuming this was a pun.

Barinthus
19-07-2007, 01:01
Yea, where are the weapons of mass destruction!?
Sorry, had too.

__________________________________

Maybe they are on the boat. An assumption though as is, they have already handed them out, look everyones armed!

lol

I think the OP pulled a Bush ;)

Karn - wiki isn't an official source so whatever is said in wiki, i want to see some evidence backing it up.

the ettins kiss
19-07-2007, 09:02
There are 3 sunspears in this picture aswell, where they as blind as Kormir?

Black
19-07-2007, 11:48
Field General Hayao, of the Zaishen Order is located in Kamadan. The Zaishen order originates in Canthan. I know for a fact that the order sent two of its recruits to aide the sunspears concerning the circumstances there.

Is the order related to Emperor Kisu? If so, isn't this a form of military support for Istan? This could be viewed by the Kournans as directly aiding an enemy, thus interferring in foreign affairs.

The picture maybe true to the fact that Cantha is supporting a war campaign against an unseen enemy. Keep in mind that when this support was given, though from the result from demonic appearances both in Tyria and Canthan, it was given prior to any knowledge of Kournan involvement with Abbadon. This could have been viewed by kourna as a threat and a shift of power.

Keep in mind that this is all theory and speculation and can be open to misinterpretation.

Ravious Pretagata
19-07-2007, 14:12
Either that or Cantha started trading again after the Shiro happenings, and we are just shown the beginning of that.

But yeah, you are given two Canthan heroes in Nightfall to aide your plight against the Kournans... pretty strong evidence that Cantha at some time does choose sides.

NameAlreadyInUse
19-07-2007, 15:10
There are 3 sunspears in this picture aswell, where they as blind as Kormir?

I was under the impression that the Order of Sunspears was almost like a 'Jedi Knight' thing, in that they never really took sides in national affairs, but concerned themselves with the wellfare of all Elonians. They would have been a neutral force and probably used mostly as negotiators and intermediaries during times of peace.

Before Varesh went on her quest for Nightfall there were probably detatchments of Sunspears all over the Elonian mainland. Further, it would stand to reason that if a dignitary as important as the Emperor were known to be making a visit, then the Sunspear Order would have probably sent at least a handful of their higher ranking members (up to and including the Spearmarshal, if available) to be present to welcome the man.

Bear in mind also that we have no idea when this visit took place. Varesh may not have taken over leadership of Kourna yet, and I thought at one point General Morgan mentioned what respect Varesh's father always held for the Sunspears.

Karuro
19-07-2007, 15:27
Note that a sunspear got killed in Gandara right after the declaration of war (followed by ending up in Torment to tell us his tale). Also the sunspears who were in Vabbi who had no way out back to Istan.

Santax
19-07-2007, 15:58
Either that or Cantha started trading again after the Shiro happenings, and we are just shown the beginning of that.

But yeah, you are given two Canthan heroes in Nightfall to aide your plight against the Kournans... pretty strong evidence that Cantha at some time does choose sides.

Remember, Cantha=/=Zaishen. The Zaishen Order were originally shipwrecked on the Battle Isles, and were seperated from Cantha for many years. Yes, some of them are Canthan (like Jin), but the majority of them are home-bred.

Ranger Nietzsche
19-07-2007, 17:25
mmm I don't consider a video of something that has no supporting evidence in game to be a legit source of info about our world.

Nanashi
20-07-2007, 01:41
The picture maybe true to the fact that Cantha is supporting a war campaign against an unseen enemy. Keep in mind that when this support was given, though from the result from demonic appearances both in Tyria and Canthan, it was given prior to any knowledge of Kournan involvement with Abbadon. This could have been viewed by kourna as a threat and a shift of power

Well I feel it was a miss understanding interpretation of Cantha. Remember everybody, supposedly we as foreigners arrive after the betrayal of Varesh is unfolded. We arrive AFTER the Apocrypha and Hayate's involvement.

If you remember, Zenmai's story pretty much explains Cantha's involvement. She wanted revenge on whatever was causing the demons to enter Cantha and perhaps that same source was supposedly behind the afflicted plague. So realizing the source was coming from Elona and the fact Sunspears requested us to take part in stopping the coming Nightfall, Cantha probably wasn't aware of Kourna at all until we jump in and find out Kourna was supporting the Corsairs who were jumping us.

Gmr Leon
20-07-2007, 03:22
We arrive AFTER the Apocrypha and Hayate's involvement.

Do you mean Kahyet?

Nanashi
20-07-2007, 03:42
Do you mean Kahyet?

Yeah her... who I thought was a he at the beginning. xD

Quintus Antonius
21-07-2007, 22:29
it said it on wiki

Link please.

liquid ice VI
24-07-2007, 07:37
Maybe the kisu was corrupted by abaddon?

Barinthus
24-07-2007, 17:05
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1280/seigeweaponsdiaolgueuz4.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seigeweaponsdiaolgueuz4.jpg)

Came across this while exploring the Wilderness of Bahdza

minus the great
27-07-2007, 10:49
The kournans probably paid better and I don't think Kisu knew about the Evilness of Varesh at that point...

NameAlreadyInUse
27-07-2007, 12:51
The kournans probably paid better and I don't think Kisu knew about the Evilness of Varesh at that point...

I think that's fair to say. From the presence of Sunspears at Kisu's arival we know that the meeting took place before Varesh began her quest for Nightfall. It may have taken place even before she was in charge.

So, if we remember that at the start of the events in Nightfall even we didn't know she was evil (we help her train her troops at one point, for Grenth's sake) then I would doubt that a man, powerful as he is, from countless miles away across the ocean would have known either.

The weapons were probably either meant as a gift to cement diplomatic relations (You know, "Here, you can trust us not to stab you in the back. To prove it we'll even give you some old catapults we're not using anymore.") or they were on loan from Cantha and intended to be used against a mutal enemy, namely the corsaires. The corsaire shipwreck on Istan with the huge blocks of jade in it would seem to imply that the same pirate forces troubling Elona were also raiding Canthan ports and/or trade ships.

Harjubal od Uo
27-07-2007, 19:39
It's also possible, I would claim even more likely, that that's not Kisu at all but rather a Canthan diplomat who's just dressing himself up as imperially as he can get away with to try to put on a good show for the Kournans and his retainers.

A lot of that is seemingly unique imperial garb, particularly the headdress, but it may even be that the diplomat is bending the rules of what's permissable for him to wear to show off the comparatively independent authority his position entails, a rare commodity in bureaucratic Canthan society.

Quintus Antonius
27-07-2007, 22:15
It's also possible Kisu has body doubles. With the Luxons and Kurzicks and street gangs of Kaineng, I'm sure there are people who'd love to get him in the open.

Karn the Betrayer
27-07-2007, 22:21
The corsaire shipwreck on Istan with the huge blocks of jade in it would seem to imply that the same pirate forces troubling Elona were also raiding Canthan ports and/or trade ships.

?? where is this shipwrek?

Aoshima Michio
27-07-2007, 22:25
?? where is this shipwrek?

It is in southern part of Mehtani Keys, next to Treasure chest.

The Boz
29-07-2007, 15:38
That shipwreck is most likely the remains of Jatoro Musagi's ship. Remember that kid from Captured Son? Yeah, well, he's a bit older now, and after a few adventures with the Crimson Skulls, Zenos Crew and the Kurzicks, he came into some Jadeite. This Jadeite was most valuable, and rare, because it had sealife encased within. So, he set forth to Vabbi, hoping to sell the lot to the Princes. On his way there, he was set upon by the Corsairs, his crew was killed and his ship was filled with holes, and left sinking. He managed to shore it, and run away into Kodlonu Hamlet, where he now lives. Presumably, the Corsairs knew about the Jadeite, and are now securing the shipwreck, readying to ferry the Jadeite out themselves.

Darksungames
30-07-2007, 20:36
Having the Emperor of a Land meet with the leader of other countries doesn't have to mean anything other than trying to establish good relations with everyone he can. It doesn't mean he's picking sides, it doesn't mean he necessarily trading anything. It may simple be Canthan/ Elonan tradition for leaders to meet.

The only thing this scene shows is that Kisu is aware of Elona & establishing communication. That's it.

That shipwreck is most likely the remains of Jatoro Musagi's ship.
Yes, this is 100% true. Jatoro himself tells you that is the ship he was on. The raiders in this instance had nothing to do with Cantha, they got the ship as it neared Istan.

Nanashi
01-08-2007, 06:22
Presumably, the Corsairs knew about the Jadeite, and are now securing the shipwreck, readying to ferry the Jadeite out themselves.

Of course, during the Factions prerelease there were a few quests to grab in Lions Arch that involved the Kurzicks and Luxon. The Luxon's encampment had a large block of Jade. This meant they traveled to other continents outside of Cantha with Jade, probably for a loose cash system (encase not everybody used gold or they had no gold on them)

Now Corsairs are, like the Crimson Skulls, seafare pirates. Most likely they have run across Jade or have watched it be treated through marketing cross seas.