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Karn the Betrayer
30-07-2007, 23:55
Lore Wise is collectivley the Vault, Couryard, Golden Gates, Scared temple and the Hall Of Heros one large Hall of Heroes (I mean is it all called Hall of Heroes) or called something else?

Troal
31-07-2007, 00:08
I was under the impression all those other PvP arenas were seperate from the Hall of Heroes. They're more like a path towards the Hall - a test of sorts.

I don't think there's any collective name for the Hall of Heroes, and those arenas leading up to them, besides 'the Mists'... or perhaps 'the Underworld.'

aptaleonII
31-07-2007, 14:38
The Courtyard, Vault, Sacred Temples etc, i always believed, were just as their names suggest- sections of the Hall of Heroes in the Mists. The Courtyard is literally a Courtyard and the Vault is literally a Vault.

Quintus Antonius
31-07-2007, 14:46
Yup, I agree with aptaleon. As soon as you start seeing golden walkways and decorations, you are in the Hall of Heroes.

Karn the Betrayer
31-07-2007, 15:54
umm I know this is called hall of heroes but where are the said heroes? there could be at least a statue of Togo and other famous GW heros XD but then i guess places don't have to have things mention in thier names

yakslappin
31-07-2007, 16:33
My geuss is

King Elswyth
King Kole
King Millius
Queen Nadijeh
King Wenslauss
Lord victo

aptaleonII
31-07-2007, 17:58
Some of the spirits of the Hall of Heroes are the ones that pit the groups of hopefuls against eachother for betting and entertainment purposes (that's true, believe it or not), so they are not going to be in the line of fire between battling groups. They are there in the hall, but they're not in the crossfire.

Spirits of the Hall include Elswyth, Kole, Millius, Wenslauss, and the Unworthy.

Harjubal od Uo
31-07-2007, 19:26
Does anyone know precisely what it is that mortals get when they win the championship for the Hall of Heroes? Is it immortality? Great power? An audience with the gods? Just fancy loot? What's worth fighting that far for?

Karn the Betrayer
31-07-2007, 19:36
ummm I'm trying to put the HoH in my GW story but not as a battle field arenas.. well ok mention the battles infront of the gods... well i gotta think that one over XD

Quintus Antonius
31-07-2007, 19:41
It's a common misconception that the gods have anything to do with the Hall of Heroes. So far as we know, it is only a bunch of disgruntled spirits who like to get their jollies watching mortals kill each other.

unkemptwolf
31-07-2007, 20:28
Does anyone know precisely what it is that mortals get when they win the championship for the Hall of Heroes? Is it immortality? Great power? An audience with the gods? Just fancy loot? What's worth fighting that far for?

From what I remember in the manuscripts, your reward for entertaining the spirits that live in the hall is that they do not kill you like they did Odran.

JeanDeathwish
31-07-2007, 22:00
Does anyone know precisely what it is that mortals get when they win the championship for the Hall of Heroes? Is it immortality? Great power? An audience with the gods? Just fancy loot? What's worth fighting that far for?From what I remember in the manuscripts, your reward for entertaining the spirits that live in the hall is that they do not kill you like they did Odran.

Wow that seems like an amazing award. You fight ALL that way and risk your life just so you can have a chance at not dieing. [/sarcasm]

I always thought it was just "favour of the gods" that was earned... As I recall, since we are all "heroes," after we die we go to the Hall of Heroes. Maybe if you are not a hero and you win in Heroes Ascent, you claim a place in the Hall of Heroes after you die.

Harjubal od Uo
31-07-2007, 22:57
Reading over the Hall of Heroes section of the Prophecies Manuscripts, it seems that there may be a religious imperative involved in the quest for the Hall.


When a hero dies, his spirit goes to one of two places: either it is buried with the deceased body, forever trapped inside the rotting flesh and rancid bones of the corpse, or it is released into the Rift. This latter honor goes to only those few whose deeds in life were legendary enough to be known across multiple worlds, and fewer still earn a place among the souls ensconced inside the Hall itself.

Similar to some Mesoamerican and Norse (maybe?) belief systems, it seems the only way to avoid rotting in the ground (where does the Underworld fit in here?) is to become a great hero, presumably in battle. Not just a great hero, though, but a hero "known across multiple worlds."

If we can take this at face value, this means that one of the highest religious callings, at least in the Tyrian interpretation, is to travel to the Rifts and then spread your fame across as many worlds as possible, thus assuring yourself a more comfortable afterlife.

This may shed a little light on why adventuring, as dangerous and painful as it is, is so popular that it can give rise to so many hundreds of adventuring guilds around the world; they're almost like Renaissance confraternities, societies for the protection of the soul, just with more swords and fireballs.

Karn the Betrayer
31-07-2007, 22:59
Me thinks there should be statues in the HoH to honour the heros as well

aptaleonII
31-07-2007, 23:04
Me thinks there should be statues in the HoH to honour the heros as well

There are massive golden statues of Behemoths in the Hall. Maybe the Behemoths were hero Behemoths.

Gmr Leon
31-07-2007, 23:26
(where does the Underworld fit in here?)

Most souls that are in the Underworld live in the Forgotten Vale and have devoted themselves eternally to Grenth. Other ones, that are confused and lost will also go there. For example the people you meet in the beginning of the Underworld would normally either go there or to the Hall of Judgment to be be judged by Grenth.

Also.


There are those who meet with death on an even playing field. And there are others who are caught off their guard. It is these souls, who die so quickly that they do not notice the transition from life into unlife, who wind up here in the Forgotten Vale. Theirs are perhaps the most tragic of all the spirits trapped here, for they do not truly understand what is happening around them.

That explanation is more thorough and better than mine for the most part.

aptaleonII
01-08-2007, 00:03
There are lots of different places detailed as being the end of the road for souls, not just the two mentioned in the manuscripts.

1) The Hall of Heroes. This is the destination for the greastest souls; the souls that have actions of note to their names.

2) The Rift. This is the destination for most souls that are not trapped within the body.

3) Trapped in the Corpse, as mentioned in the manuscripts.

4) Community service as an Envoy. An exceptionally rare fate for souls that committed atrocities in life.

5) The Forgotten Vale. This is the destination for souls that do not know they have passed on.

6) The Bone Pits. This is the destination for those that travel in the underworld before it is their time... but die there.

7) The Chaos Planes (Previous site of Dhuum's Tower). This is the destination for many of the very worst souls, who end up wandering lost there.

8) The Realm of Torment. The well-known destination for those tainted by Abaddon's touch or Varesh's dark rituals.

9) The Great Forge, the believed destination for the souls of Dwarves.

10) The "Sky Above the Sky", the believed destination for the souls of Tengu.

11) The Burning Forest. The Souls of heroes captured by Menzies are made to gather darkly-imbued materials from the Burning Forest. As far as is evident, only a small number of souls suffered this fate, but there could easily be more.

12) Tied to the world indefinitely. Certain circumstances can bind spirits to the mortal world, such as the removal of the Tome of the Fallen. This includes those that unknowingly died seeking ascension in the Crystal Desert, and those bound to Palawa Joko in the Desolation.

13) A very small number of bandit souls were sealed magically within "Soul Keepers" by Ang the Ephemeral. (Note: Ang did this only so the Envoys could collect the souls of the bandits with greater ease, but the Envoys never turned up. Thus, this one doesn't really count.)

14) It is known that Grasping Darknesses are able to devour souls, but it's unclear what happens to the souls once devoured.

15) The souls of the most loyal servants of Grenth were made into Ice Elementals to defend the Hall of Judgement.

16) It is said that there are souls of Palawa Joko's victims trapped within the walls of the Bone Palace.

17) It is entirely possible that the souls of the Kurzicks that sacrifice themselves during Awakening ceremonies to become immortal Juggernauts live on as long as their Forever Tree survives.

18) The souls of the heroes of Cantha live forever in Tahnnakai Temple, and the souls of Saint Viktor and Archemorus remain in their respective artifacts.

There we are, i believe that's all of them.

Skyy High
01-08-2007, 00:49
There are lots of different places detailed as being the end of the road for souls, not just the two mentioned in the manuscripts.

1) The Hall of Heroes. This is the destination for the greastest souls; the souls that have actions of note to their names.

2) The Rift. This is the destination for most souls that are not trapped within the body.

3) Trapped in the Corpse, as mentioned in the manuscripts.

4) Community service as an Envoy. An exceptionally rare fate for souls that committed atrocities in life.

5) The Forgotten Vale. This is the destination for souls that do not know they have passed on.

6) The Bone Pits. This is the destination for those that travel in the underworld before it is their time... but die there.

7) The Chaos Planes (Previous site of Dhuum's Tower). This is the destination for many of the very worst souls, who end up wandering lost there.

8) The Realm of Torment. The well-known destination for those tainted by Abaddon's touch or Varesh's dark rituals.

9) The Great Forge, the believed destination for the souls of Dwarves.

10) The "Sky Above the Sky", the believed destination for the souls of Tengu.

11) The Burning Forest. The Souls of heroes captured by Menzies are made to gather darkly-imbued materials from the Burning Forest. As far as is evident, only a small number of souls suffered this fate, but there could easily be more.

12) Tied to the world indefinitely. Certain circumstances can bind spirits to the mortal world, such as the removal of the Tome of the Fallen. This includes those that unknowingly died seeking ascension in the Crystal Desert, and those bound to Palawa Joko in the Desolation.

13) A very small number of bandit souls were sealed magically within "Soul Keepers" by Ang the Ephemeral. (Note: Ang did this only so the Envoys could collect the souls of the bandits with greater ease, but the Envoys never turned up. Thus, this one doesn't really count.)

14) It is known that Grasping Darknesses are able to devour souls, but it's unclear what happens to the souls once devoured.

15) The souls of the most loyal servants of Grenth were made into Ice Elementals to defend the Hall of Judgement.

16) It is said that there are souls of Palawa Joko's victims trapped within the walls of the Bone Palace.

17) It is entirely possible that the souls of the Kurzicks that sacrifice themselves during Awakening ceremonies to become immortal Juggernauts live on as long as their Forever Tree survives.

18) The souls of the heroes of Cantha live forever in Tahnnakai Temple, and the souls of Saint Viktor and Archemorus remain in their respective artifacts.

There we are, i believe that's all of them.
Lovely synopsis. Most complete one I've seen so far. However, it's missing Shiro's constructs (which I suppose could be a form of 12), and what happens to the Afflicted (their souls being converted into mortal deformed creatures or some such, doesn't really tie in with anything we see here).

Also, we don't know what happened to the souls of the likes of Shiro and the Lich when we killed them...when they were already dead.

NameAlreadyInUse
01-08-2007, 02:28
There are lots of different places detailed as being the end of the road for souls, not just the two mentioned in the manuscripts.

1) The Hall of Heroes. This is the destination for the greastest souls; the souls that have actions of note to their names.

2) The Rift. This is the destination for most souls that are not trapped within the body.

3) Trapped in the Corpse, as mentioned in the manuscripts.

4) Community service as an Envoy. An exceptionally rare fate for souls that committed atrocities in life.

5) The Forgotten Vale. This is the destination for souls that do not know they have passed on.

6) The Bone Pits. This is the destination for those that travel in the underworld before it is their time... but die there.

7) The Chaos Planes (Previous site of Dhuum's Tower). This is the destination for many of the very worst souls, who end up wandering lost there.

8) The Realm of Torment. The well-known destination for those tainted by Abaddon's touch or Varesh's dark rituals.

9) The Great Forge, the believed destination for the souls of Dwarves.

10) The "Sky Above the Sky", the believed destination for the souls of Tengu.

11) The Burning Forest. The Souls of heroes captured by Menzies are made to gather darkly-imbued materials from the Burning Forest. As far as is evident, only a small number of souls suffered this fate, but there could easily be more.

12) Tied to the world indefinitely. Certain circumstances can bind spirits to the mortal world, such as the removal of the Tome of the Fallen. This includes those that unknowingly died seeking ascension in the Crystal Desert, and those bound to Palawa Joko in the Desolation.

13) A very small number of bandit souls were sealed magically within "Soul Keepers" by Ang the Ephemeral. (Note: Ang did this only so the Envoys could collect the souls of the bandits with greater ease, but the Envoys never turned up. Thus, this one doesn't really count.)

14) It is known that Grasping Darknesses are able to devour souls, but it's unclear what happens to the souls once devoured.

15) The souls of the most loyal servants of Grenth were made into Ice Elementals to defend the Hall of Judgement.

16) It is said that there are souls of Palawa Joko's victims trapped within the walls of the Bone Palace.

17) It is entirely possible that the souls of the Kurzicks that sacrifice themselves during Awakening ceremonies to become immortal Juggernauts live on as long as their Forever Tree survives.

18) The souls of the heroes of Cantha live forever in Tahnnakai Temple, and the souls of Saint Viktor and Archemorus remain in their respective artifacts.

There we are, i believe that's all of them.

Great summary. My only question would be where do the druids fall in this list?

It would seem that the closest fate from the list would be #12, but at the same time they don't seem so much bound to the world as bound to service to Melandru. Would that make them more like the Envoys or like Grenth's Ice Golems (or Balthazar's Eternals I suppose)?

Quintus Antonius
01-08-2007, 02:31
The Druids aren't techinically "dead". They ascended to a higher plane of existance, so I'd say the answer is that they don't fall into this at all, until/unless they die.

NameAlreadyInUse
01-08-2007, 02:39
The Druids aren't techinically "dead". They ascended to a higher plane of existance, so I'd say the answer is that they don't fall into this at all, until/unless they die.

Fair enough, I guess I was thrown off by the general 'spirit-y'-ness of their forms. Thanks for clearing that up.

Harjubal od Uo
01-08-2007, 04:57
Great list, aptaleon; thanks for compiling it.

aptaleonII
01-08-2007, 14:29
Thanks all :) Looking over the replies, it seems i have three more to add:

19) Many souls were bound within Constructs, as well as Shiro'ken, during Shiro's period of abusing Envoy Power. It is unknown how long the Souls could remain in the artificial bodies, but it is possible they could remain indefinitely.

20) Many souls were diverted to the Foundry of Failed Creations and were, by an unknown method, twisted to create Titans.

21) An unknown number of those souls already trapped in the Realm of Torment were taken from the river and sent to Dhuum. It is not known exactly what became of these souls.

...there we are. I hope that's all of them now :) Btw, i believe the Afflicted do not count, as they are still entirely alive, just diseased. Thus, it's not the end of the road for those souls.

Karn the Betrayer
01-08-2007, 22:48
I thought Titans were demonic souls to start with..

Nanashi
02-08-2007, 09:42
I thought Titans were demonic souls to start with..

Not from what DoA has taught us.

Karn the Betrayer
02-08-2007, 12:07
so where in DoA says that souls are converted into titans?

Kailden Jera
02-08-2007, 13:52
so where in DoA says that souls are converted into titans?

Foundry of Failed Creations.

David Holtzman
02-08-2007, 14:27
Just thought I'd point out, there is a very definite road going through all of the maps prior to halls. It's very obvious if you take the time to look that the different levels really are levels- they all contain a ramp going down and a ramp going up. This is most obvious on Courtyard with 3 down ramps and 1 up ramp.

Karn the Betrayer
03-08-2007, 09:41
so u saying like a player can just stroll up these ramps or are they got gates on each ramp?

Nanashi
03-08-2007, 10:35
so u saying like a player can just stroll up these ramps or are they got gates on each ramp?

Well think of it as tiers. In order to ascend to the next tier you must pass the test of the one before it. Hence, beating teams in HoH tourneys or clearing it of demon presence.

Quintus Antonius
03-08-2007, 16:13
Yeah, you have to win before the spirits grant you access to the next level.

Skyy High
03-08-2007, 17:27
Just thought I'd point out, there is a very definite road going through all of the maps prior to halls. It's very obvious if you take the time to look that the different levels really are levels- they all contain a ramp going down and a ramp going up. This is most obvious on Courtyard with 3 down ramps and 1 up ramp.
I noticed this in the upper, more "golden" areas that look like the Vault, but is it true of the UW levels too? I don't recall Broken Tower (which I believe used to be the last level before you got out of the UW, before it was replaced) having anything in it that would suggest ascending to a higher area. Is there anything in the new Forgotten Shrines map - since I haven't seen it - that suggests you are about to ascend to something more HoH-like?

Ranger Nietzsche
03-08-2007, 21:51
scarred earth was the last one before the gold colored stuff.

but I don't think the dark stuff has the ramps, its more gates to other areas of the UW.

Karn the Betrayer
03-08-2007, 22:29
ah so i get it you don't nessarly get to go to the map you want to... i kinda pictured something like Zaishen

Ranger Nietzsche
04-08-2007, 08:21
huh?

you mean map skipping? Thats just an in game mechanic due to a lack of opponents, hardly lore.

aptaleonII
04-08-2007, 13:05
huh?

you mean map skipping? Thats just an in game mechanic due to a lack of opponents, hardly lore.

Ooooh... you're in trouble now.


But on topic, it's not necessarily only game mechanics. The spirits of the rift indeed do decide your every move in the tournament.

Quintus Antonius
04-08-2007, 15:52
Indeed, it may simply be that they are seeking faster bloodlust.

Karn the Betrayer
04-08-2007, 23:31
man quntis u make them sound sadistic... I find it wierdthat if the HoH is in the mists how is the sun shining? It makes out that its somewhere in Elona... maybe its what Arah looked like before Lich pwned it

Quintus Antonius
04-08-2007, 23:53
It is a bit sadistic Karn. These are the spirits of warriors who spent their whole lives in battle.

Karn the Betrayer
05-08-2007, 09:36
I'm surprised Turai Ossa isn't in HoH, his insantiy would fit of those bloodlusting sprits

Nanashi
05-08-2007, 13:35
HoH is in Elona? I thought it was located near the North end of the Crystal Desert (Dragon's Lair) where one then is transported to the mists by the Ghostly Hero.

Quintus Antonius
05-08-2007, 14:28
It's not on Tyria at all.

Gmr Leon
05-08-2007, 15:58
It's not on Tyria at all.

In the real sense yes, but one of the entrances is in Elona. The Crystal Desert is still counted as part of Elona by the Elonians.

Quintus Antonius
05-08-2007, 16:36
The only "sense" we should operate in is a "real sense".

Karn the Betrayer
05-08-2007, 16:49
sooooo where is this so call entrance in Elona?...

aptaleonII
05-08-2007, 17:18
sooooo where is this so call entrance in Elona?...

The Tomb of the Primeval Kings. The crystal desert is still, by some, regarded as part of Elona.

Karn the Betrayer
05-08-2007, 17:36
now that was a stupid question i asked lol