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View Full Version : GvG Build, help please.



Entris
29-08-2007, 01:16
Ok, here it goes.

W/A
Death's Charge
Iron Palm
Devastating Hammer or BB?
Flail
Crushing Blow
Heavy Blow/Mighty Blow?
Enraging Charge
Rez Sig/or Rush?

2 R/E Spikers
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Keen Arrow(Not sure about this skill)
Distracting Shot
Glass Arrows
Conjure Frost/Lighting/Fire
Lighting Reflexes, or Fav Winds?
Rez Sig

Standard Infuse LoD Monk/A
For the other monk, which would be better, standard SoD monk, or RC with guardian?
Standard SoR Ele

Now the two last slots. This is where I need help. Which of these would be best in the above build? The Casters will have Death Pact Signet/Resurrection Chant depending on the class.

1.DA Paragon and Esurge Mesmer or Bsurge Ele with WAM
2.Anti-melee Necro with WAM and Migraine Mesmer
3.Cripshot Ranger and Bsurger with WAM
4.Bsurger Ele with WAM and Esurger Mes with WAM
5.Another Rspike Ranger and Bsurger Ele with WAM
6.Another Warrior with the same build as the hammer warrior except Eviscerate/E.Strike/Agonizing and Bsurger with WAM

WAM is Ward Against Melee by the way.

Comments and critiques please.:smiley:

David Holtzman
29-08-2007, 01:46
The build you are looking at is called Be Team Spike (named after the guild who rode it up the ladder). They run a W/A shadowprison axe, 2 rangers like you have, a mes with MoR, a bsurge, 2 monks and a water runner. For that sort of telespike, I don't see much room for improvement. You can probably get the whole build off of obsmode easily enough.

Tsai Cooper
29-08-2007, 21:51
you seem to have enough offense where the 2 slots should be utility and not offense
i confess total unfamiliarity with the build but it appears to be pretty okay
i like b surge myself, but w/e you want

Monstrum
15-09-2007, 08:15
i'd go with a evis-exec-agonizing-death charge for the tele-spiker, then if u want another war go with devastating or earth shaker (BB is fantastic, but takes too long to load imo), bulls instead of iron palm, and rending touch... otherwise run the standard me/mo mesmer with either power block or MoR, shame, power leak, etc

ud definitely want a b-surger with a ward for the last slot, esp since u have little other defense

Wuzzman
17-09-2007, 18:30
For one a Mor mesmer especially Me/e would work best. Something along the lines of:
Mor, diversion, shame, mirror of disenchament, shatter enchantment, glph of lesser energy, ward against melee, and rez.
You need your spike to go through aegis chains no matter what and also you need to asisst your warrior when he can gain adreline.Faster. 1/4 of your spike is his deepwound.
Bsurge is pretty much standard, not only can he stop adreline spikes but also carry a ward or a aegis if you like. Remember in a build like that your "free" slots are dedicated to shoring up holes in your defense and insuring your spike gets through.

David Holtzman
17-09-2007, 21:41
MoR is not good. Not only is it a crutch for bad mesmers, but you won't even get to use it in 2/3 of your matches. Anyone with a paragon in the build will just sit a wild throw on you on recharge, and lots of people carry gons.

Wuzzman
17-09-2007, 22:33
Lol, doesn't mean you don't like Mor doesn't mean its overpowerness shouldn't be abused. And another lol, 1 wild throw paragon ain't getting your spike through, maybe if it didn't just remove stances it give extra merit to your statement ^_^.

David Holtzman
18-09-2007, 00:44
Is something about this concept particularly hard for you to understand? Paragon with a constant 33% IAS, 7 adrenaline Wild Throw that removes stances, mesmer with a 20R MoR that is an elite stance... figure it out.

Entris
18-09-2007, 00:47
Thanks for posting everyone :smiley:

A reason why I didn't post a MoR Mesmer because not because bad mesmers use it, but it's too easy to shut it down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole point of MoR Mesmer is the fact that you can use Diversion every 6/3 seconds, and any opponent that has a mesmer or ranger can easily Diversion/Dshot it, making the MoR mesmer useless from it's main role.

EDIT: Oh, and what David said, since there are a lot of Paragons.

Wuzzman
18-09-2007, 01:56
So Dual SHot and my my deep wound miss, but at least wild throw went through.WOOT WOOT. Mor allows you to spam, interupts, shame, wards, and keep up with spikes with shatter enchantment. Doesn't mean there are counters doesn't mean its should stay in the shelf. Unless you mention any particular elites or skills for the para besides wild throw, then I don't see how your honestly going to spike through aegis + DA + Sod + guardian spam.

Yue
18-09-2007, 03:34
Are you ****ing retarded? He's not referring to wild throw for a spike. Wild throw removes stances, and is unblockable. Mantra of Recovery is a stance, and it's an elite. Wild throw--->>negate elite skill on mesmer. That simple enough for you?

Wuzzman
18-09-2007, 04:22
wow.............and thats all??? I can see a mesmer right now....OMG he used 7 ADRELINE TO END MY STANCE!!!!!!!!!...wait it cost 5 energy and it recharges quite fast...oh well. its like saying "bring unnatural sig noob" if someone asked for a counter to spirit way....I can see my monk yelling at my para "F*****cking noob wild throw that mesmer!!!!!!!!"

ekiru
18-09-2007, 04:55
wow.............and thats all??? I can see a mesmer right now....OMG he used 7 ADRELINE TO END MY STANCE!!!!!!!!!...wait it cost 5 energy and it recharges quite fast...oh well. its like saying "bring unnatural sig noob" if someone asked for a counter to spirit way....I can see my monk yelling at my para "F*****cking noob wild throw that mesmer!!!!!!!!"

Or, if you happen to be running a derv, you can just wild blow it off. You're also getting a nice scythe crit from that, too.

David Holtzman
18-09-2007, 05:22
I can see my monk yelling at my para "F*****cking noob wild throw that mesmer!!!!!!!!"

Wild Throw is probably the second best spear attack, behind Spear of Lightning. It's a skill that gives you so many more options. All of a sudden you have an easy shutdown on a lot of mesmer elites, you have no problem spiking out rangers in your backline whenever you want, and those silly soldier's stance monks are quickly no issue. But to be honest, I expect you to still argue. You disagreeing with me doesn't matter though, because in the end your teams fail and mine don't. Results speak for themselves.

Monstrum
18-09-2007, 08:03
once again, it depends on the rank of ur opponents.
against rank 200 or higher (99.9% of these forums), MoR is never gonna be a priority for your opponents especially if ur running other stances too (on a r/mo, trapper, mo/w whatever)

not to mention atleast half the guilds DONT run paragons or dervishes with wild blow

Wuzzman
18-09-2007, 14:48
hmm even david himself says "study what other guilds do", and less then half use wild throw. I don't think its a bad skill, but there is a reason why paras stick to spear of lightning and victorious spear...I really hope that mo/w isn't be run of a gvg monk.....or that a BA ranger is camping your backline so much that you need your para to flush him out.....

Yue
18-09-2007, 16:43
Pretty sure there is no such thing as victorious spear.

Wet One
18-09-2007, 19:48
Pretty sure there is no such thing as victorious spear.

Yue, thats cause you didnt get the PvE Expansion pack! DUH! WTF NUB...


hahahah

i think he meant vicious attack... people run that because its a free deep wound ever 8 seconds or something? I have seen a lot of teams run wild throw...


And wasnt the wuzzman the guy that was who-r-u-ing in another thread, yet fails to provide any credentials as he argued and bashed other peopled thoughts and suggestions????????
WhoRu?
WhoRu?
WhoRu?
WhoRu?

Willian Sunspeare
18-09-2007, 20:02
once again, it depends on the rank of ur opponents.
against rank 200 or higher (99.9% of these forums), MoR is never gonna be a priority for your opponents especially if ur running other stances too (on a r/mo, trapper, mo/w whatever)


PRETTY SURE an ELITE STANCE that powers that mesmer's ENTIRE BAR is somewhat high on my priority list of things to wild throw.

Wild throw is a hard counter to MoR. Let me repeat that: Wild throw is a HARD COUNTER to MoR. It's not conditional, it's not situational, it's doesn't take precision to make work. You see a mesmer put up MoR, you click on him and chuck a spear, and that mesmer basically burned his elite slot on trash.

Paragons add a lot of defense and can do frontend damage on demand. That's why people run them. MoR and stance monks are prevalent to make wild throw a good enough skill that 90% of all paragons will have it on their bar.

Stances aren't as hard to deal with as pre-nightfall, when you didn't have wild blow melandru dervs and wild throw paras running around. You run MoR today, you'd better be ready to shut down without it.

Welcome to the metagame.

David Holtzman
18-09-2007, 20:37
once again, it depends on the rank of ur opponents.

No, it really doesn't. It doesn't matter who you fight, that paragon will have absolutely no problem punching away at your mesmer. That's the thing, there's no reason for him to swap targets except to spike. He can train you all day and do his job perfectly: keep the defense going, and still pound a soft target. While he's already on you, why would he not Wild Throw your MoR on recharge? It doesn't matter what rank he is, it's a no skill required hard counter. You see MoR, you click Wild Throw, MoR is gone. Even if you run other stances, those stances are going to be worth taking off only a small percentage of the time. There's no reason to keep taking off natty stride, for example, except on a spike. The same is true of disciplined on a monk. MoR, however, is one of the only two stances found in PvP that is worth taking off all the time (the other is inscriptions). And even if only half the teams run Wild Throw, you're still effectively losing your elite slot 50% of the time. That sounds pretty stupid to me.

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hmm even david himself says "study what other guilds do", and less then half use wild throw. I don't think its a bad skill, but there is a reason why paras stick to spear of lightning and victorious spear...

Yes, and that reason is that they are in your imagination. In actual PvP, they pretty uniformly take Wild Throw. I've already explained why they do it multiple times in this thread and see no reason to reiterate.


I really hope that mo/w isn't be run of a gvg monk.....or that a BA ranger is camping your backline so much that you need your para to flush him out.....

Mo/W using Soldier's Stance with paragon shouts for fuel were fairly common for a time, and continue to be fairly common in NR/Tranq builds. I'm rather surprised you didn't know this as it was meta in the ending days of the eF hex team. I also recall tag running it heavily for a time. As for people camping your backline... what on earth did you think midline damage was for? The whole damn point of midline damage is to do one of two things: be there for the spike, and punish people for moving away from their monks. Your paragon/ele/mesmer should be riding that ranger with lots and lots of damage as soon as he takes a step to run into your backline. Why? Because that keeps him from doing it and getting into a position really advantageous for him (next to monks; minimal flight time for your big soft skills) and really terrible for you. Wildthrow for when that ranger does extend turns him from someone with a big red safety button into just another corpse.

Tsai Cooper
18-09-2007, 22:16
against rank 200 or higher
i'm certainly not rank 200, or 400, or even 600, but i've still wild throwed atleast one mor that i can remember

and you saying that begs a question already asked:

WhoRu?
WhoRu?
WhoRu?