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arredondo
04-09-2007, 09:57
This setup is extremely good at what it does. So good that once you get it down, be prepared to deal with positive enemy feedback like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/larshaun/Game%20Stuff/gw519.jpg) (yellow text). :laugh:

In a nutshell this setup will effortlessly strip every enchant put on a target, it drains his energy to zero, and then permanently keeps him in that state until your team kills him or someone successfully chases you off. There is no other outcome; he will not be able to gain significant energy or keep any enchants on him as long as you are handling your business:

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Enchanter's Misery (MeMo)

Inspiration 14
Fast Cast 12
Illusion 10
Healing 1

Mantra of Recovery: For 17s all of your spells recharge 50% faster

Ether Phantom: Hex causes foe to suffer -1E degen for 10s, -5E if it ends prematurely
Discharge Enchantment: Remove one enchantment from foe, recharges 48% faster if he's Hexed
Energy Tap: Drain -7E from foe, gain a net +9E
Ether Feast: Drain -3E from foe, gain +45 HP per unit (max +135 HP)
Drain Delusions: If this removes a Mesmer Hex from foe, he loses -5E and you gain +2E per unit (max +10E)

Distortion: 75% chance to block physical attacks for 4s, -2E per whiff
Rez Chant: Half range spell rezzes ally with your HP and 7% energy

Build: OQNEAboj2xsAQBoRowPdomTbAA
Gear: PkpBTPZDjiqol2I90sl0IBLFi0IbSnl0Itgrl0IBLA
=======================================

So far I've gotten three Glads (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/larshaun/Game%20Stuff/gw520.jpg) with it today in large part because of how well it works in completely disabling a non-adrenal target from doing absolutely anything except the occasional Signet activation.

It has most of the skills from a Mind Wrack build (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451966) I posted, but Pat made a good point in that MW's damage doesn't have much of an impact, so I traded it for Discharge Enchantment, dropped all the Domination points to make this improved setup.

Start with Mantra of Recovery as you Hex with Ether Phantom. Next cast Energy Tap to recover mana and send it into recharge where it is ready in 12.5s, allowing you to cast ET again before your MoRecovery stance ends. Now cast Discharge Enchantment if a foe has one up.

EP is the 10s Hex that allows DE to recharge 48% faster than its normal 15s for a net 7.8s recharge, however under Mantra of Recovery note that Discharge Enchantment on a Hexed foe is ready every 3.9s! This has an amazing effect on this build's overall effectiveness, particularly against Monks and Dervishes. Almost no enchant is safe as long as you're around.

Ether Phantom normally recharges in 10s, but it comes back in 5s under MoRecovery. Keep this in mind because for maximum energy drainage you want to cancel and use it every 5s. So after Discharge Enchant is cast (if it was needed of course), cast Ether Feast to drain another -3E. You can now cast Drain Delusions to trigger EP's -5E along with another -5E from DD.

All of this can be done in just over 5s because of your high FC points. Go right into EP again and continue to strip an enchant with DE and drain energy with EF followed by another DD as you wait for Energy Tap to return. Without ET it takes about 4s per combo, so you are always taking a foe's mana when in rhythm:

Ether Phantom+Drain Delusions = -10E total
Ether feast = -3E
Energy Tap = -7E
==============
Total (w/ET): -20E
Total (wo/ET) -13E

So after the -20E combo you drain -13E every 5s. After a couple of -13Es, you get -20E again. No enemy can regain useful energy when you do this in rhythm. Just make sure that you don't cast ET when MoRecovery is down for the 3s between re-activation of the Stance. Combined with the enchant stripping, they waste energy putting enchants back up (which you take back down), allowing you to drain all their mana even faster.

Energy use for all of this? You start with max +62E. The famous combo of EP->DD pays for itself because of the +10E it gives back. Energy Tap pays for itself, plus gives you an extra 4E to pay for cost of EF's -5E cost. Right there you are only at a -1E net cost, but since ET takes 12.5s to recharge your net cost is -5E every 5s, which is easily covered by natural energy regen (+6.5E with +4E pips).

So on an unenchanted foe, you should be at full energy pretty much the entire time unless you continue casting while he's at 0E (you don't get much energy from ET and DD this if he has little to drain).

On an enchanted foe, you lose -10E per Discharge Enchant cast. Since the rest of the build pays for itself, this cost is not a problem. If the enemy can't replace enchants quickly, you rarely cast it. For those that can, the energy use is still manageable since eventually your target has no energy to replace the enchants you strip.

Even on Nameless Isle for practice, once you get the rhythm you can go through the combo casting non-stop many times with no problems. Just make sure you don't waste any casts and you'll be fine. A healer with no energy and no enchants is about as vulnerable as can be, making them easy kills for your team to take care of. If they are busy killing someone else, you keep your target completely out of the picture until they are ready for him,.

Defensively you get +145 HP every 4s when under MoRecovery. Distortion is great at blocking physical harm. When under attack while Distorting, your energy can drain so kite and cast more conservatively. Minimize enchant stripping but keep taking a foe's energy as best you can.

Before I close let me offer a good strat that's worked for me. It is sometimes best not to go at the Monk right away. By targeting a dangerous non-Healer first as they rush your backline, you can get him struggling for energy early, limiting the harm he can impose on your team.

I'll gimp an Assassin, Derv or Ranger first sometimes, then move on to the Monk or Rit for a more permanent lockdown cycle. You can freely change targets whenever you want, so when I get one foe to zero energy I'll go to someone else unless he needs to stay at zero energy.

This is up there as one of my all-time favorite Mesmer builds. Give it a try and see if you have as much fun with it as I am having.

BunnyLord
04-09-2007, 10:49
Discharge enchantment is soooo good but very underrated.

I would personally bring either Spirit Shackles or Feedback and boost Insp to the max.

Nice build Arr.

arredondo
04-09-2007, 17:02
It's certainly one of the better non-elite enchant strip skills. Something like Rend Enchantments and Gaze of Contempt are nice since it sets up co-ordinated spikes, but they have tricky conditions to deal with along with long recharges and cast times to be used as "pressure" enchant removals.

GoC won't work at all if foe is less than 50% HP. It also casts normally in 2s and takes 25s to recharge (12.5s with MoRecovery). Rend Enchants needs a 3s cast normally, and it damages you for each Monk enchant stripped. It has a 30s recharge (15s with MoRecovery). Even with Fast Cast points, those two are more vulnerable to interruption than DE (1.2s and 1.8s casts respectively).

Single enchant strip skills can't compare... Lyssa's Balance is one of the best ones, but under MoRecovery it is ready every 7.5s at best. Every 3.9s, Discharge Enchant casts in .6s for me here and it merely requires that I have a Hex up. My Hex is ready every 5s and lasts 10s so it is not a taxing penalty at all.

WingspanTT
04-09-2007, 17:23
This sounds great; is distortion a good choice though, given that it cancels MOR? How about use warrior secondary or assassin for some other defensive skill like shield bash or any teleport or what have you.

arredondo
04-09-2007, 18:32
Distortion works because it provides anti-melee defense exactly when you need it. You never have to wait for it to recharge and it is an instantaneous activation (for kiting without pausing) that can't be interrupted.

It isn't a major problem that it cancels MoRecovery because the recharge times of the spells (besides ETap) are actually decent without it. You still drain energy and can remove enchants regularly, but just not as rapidly. I run in circles when chased, tossing out the spells as I Distort when needed. For ETap, I wait until it is nearly finished casting and then hit MoRecovery->Distortion-><kite> to make sure it is ready in 12.5s.

Also, Rez Chant comes out very rapidly and recharges in half the time due to my FC points and MoRecovery. I can Distort if needed to avoid physical interruptions or KD attacks, so I really don't want to switch out the /Mo secondary. However if you find a defensive combo that works better for you, by all means use it. Distortion fits my style of defense best I suppose.

MistaChaotix
05-09-2007, 00:06
Great setup arredondo, I've played with it before in team build I created for TA. I ran a similar variant of it, only difference being Distortion, which I just took out for Convert Hexes for a TA setting in case of stacked hexes.

I love Discharge Enchantment under MoR I believe its one of the fastest Enchant Removal available to us, given you have the energy to support it and under E-Tap with Drain Delusions and high inspiration its no problem at all. Your energy is replenished for the skills you use and gain more energy, dependent on attributes though.

I've had similar success to yours as well running that Mesmer in a TA setting got about 2-3 glads, done it in RA at times just its dependent on my teammates to take notice that a character is out of the game due to his energy pool and enchantments. Great job and take care see you around.

Peace,
Chaotix :devil:

Dasmesee
05-09-2007, 01:15
If the enemy is not getting frustrated or pissed off at you, your not doing your job. But if they want to kill you and hang you from a tree if it's the last thing they do, then Your Mesmer can congratulate itself for a job well
done.:grin:

Archedgar
05-09-2007, 03:52
It looks nice, as always a good write up with some uses... although it seems energy intensive with minimal energy management.

Energy tap, even under MoR, isn't much of an energy management tool, and while Ether Phantom and Drain delusions fuel themselves, you still need a constant flow of energy for the stances and discharge enchantment...

I would maybe run it, occasionally, but not seriously.

arredondo
05-09-2007, 04:19
On paper you can drain an enchant every 4s or so, but in reality your foe won't often be able to keep up with replacing them. Eventually his re-casts and your e-draining will make it impossible for him to put any enchants up because of the rapid energy loss he incurs.

At that point you don't need Discharge Enchant for him anymore so your energy stays nearly full. You can even slow your other casts since he isn't able to generate much energy while you harass him. Many enemies in RA that you can drain might have one or don't have enchants to begin with (Mesmers, Necros, Sins, etc). For them your energy always stays pretty much full.

Psychotic
05-09-2007, 07:05
I just tried this out, and fairly easily got 11 wins on a team with no healer (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1285/mesedenialjx3.jpg), however, i switched Distortion for Web of Disruption. Distortion is nice for the defense, but offensively, Web of Disruption really synergizes well with this build, by adding another hex for Discharge Enchant as well as for Drain Delusions. Energy wise I hardly had problems. I'd spend the first few minutes focusing on targets, then if I noticed my energy getting low, all it would take is an etap or focusing on ether phantom + drain delusions(since this pays for itself, its a good combo to use on low energy).
Good kiting + a Ether Feast that is useable every 5 seconds I found was good enough defense for me for RA.
I also used a +5 armor spear, and +5 armor(-5 energy) focus, to add slightly to my defense.

infoscott
05-09-2007, 08:18
I'm also a fan of Spirit Shackles, and would replace Distortion with that. Unless you luck out and get an adrenal based warrior, most meleers won't do all that much damage to you without energy for skills, and you should be getting enough healing from the Ether Feast to cover straight weapon damage. With the Shackles on a meleer you can focus the e-drain on their side's hex remover (if they have one) and keep everybody miserable. It also means you have all those points in Illusion that can be reallocated to Inspiration or Fast Cast.

arredondo
05-09-2007, 08:53
The great thing about defense in most builds is that you can tailor it to your own tastes without disrupting the main focus of the setup. Whatever works for you fellas, go for it! I just hate not having an insta-answer for SP 'Sins and interrupt Rangers.

Dasmesee
05-09-2007, 12:06
I used a varation with arcane langour as my eleite, sure it isn't as fast but seeing monks turn tail and run while having themselves exhasted and e-drained is too much fun!:grin:

TheDivider
05-09-2007, 20:39
The build is solid and like you said, it's good at what it does. I ran this against my Guild leader in a scrimmage and pretty much destroyed her role. I used a variation in the past very similar to yours.

Instead of Illusion I use Domination ( Distortion <-> Diversion ). Sorta like your Diversionator with this setup. Energy is good on my part especially if I drop Rez for Drain Enchantment or something similar. One of the best mesmer builds I've played.

WingspanTT
05-09-2007, 21:05
IMO diversion is a bad skill to use on this build, since it is unlikely the target will be able to cast anything. I would say wastrel's worry or demise would be better, adding in some damage and psychological distress to the target, as well as meet the REQ on the skill.

In fact demise would be pretty neat under MOR on a target with 0 energy.

Evalescore
11-09-2007, 23:23
tried it- SUPER FUN. E-denied a monk and a nec into quitting. as well as annoying assassins so they can preform spike. Though a bit fragile. I give it an A-