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Lord Helmos
20-09-2007, 09:52
So how many dragons do we know of that exist in the guild wars world?

1.) Glint: Tyrian Dragon, affiliated with good, a dragon prophet over 3000 years old and seer of the flameseeker prophecies. She seems to have a guiding hand in shaping mortal heroes.

2.) Kuunavang: Canthan Dragon, affiliated with good but temporarily corrupted by Shiro's power, which we now know was actually abaddon's power passed through Shiro by a dark fortune teller. Later freed from the darkness and aids the heroes with Celestial powers.

3.) Rotscale: A dragon possibly corrupted by the power of undeath that destroyed Orr (likely related to the scepter of Orr which passed into Vizer Khilbron's hands, to which he was reborn as the undead lich). The dragon now seems to have become a husk of its former self and rests atop Majesty's Reach. It is unknown if Rotscale was good or evil before Orr was destroyed. Livia now possesses the Sceptor of Orr. It is unknown whether she will use it for a just cause, or be corrupted by its power.

4.) Rodgort: Dragon of flames and is actually named after Trogdor, the homestar runner burninator. Governs the art of fire and is affiliated with certain elementalist invocations. It is unknown what his affiliation is OR if he is one of the dragons resting somewhere in Tyria.

5.) Charr Homeland Dragon: A mysterious dragon that slumbers at the center of a lake in the charr homelands. It seems that the island formed around the dragon's massive form. It is unknown if this Dragon is good or evil.

6.) Dragon of Drakkar Lake: A giant dragon that is frozen beneath Drakkar Lake. It's power corrupted Svanir and severed Jora's connection to Ursan, the bear spirit. It seems that this dragon is possibly malicious, although it could be neutral. Svanir could have possibly used the power gained from the dragon with greed and ambition, causing him to become the Norn Bear as a result. It is unknown whether Svanir's tragedy was maliciously intended by the Dragon or is accidental.

7.) *Speculation* Dragon of Sancoth: Deep within the burning woods it is possibly that a dragon is buried in the area, this dragon might actually be Rodgort. As shown by previous examples, dragons seem to have enormous powers that can change the world. It is possible that the summoning ceremony of the Charr was actually a ritual that channeled the Sancoth Dragon's power in order to call the Searing. More digging around the Charr homelands needs to be done in order to find out if Dragon power was possibly the cause of the Searing.

8.) Dragon at the Central Transfer Chamber (Destroyer Dragon): This dragon was possibly worshipped by the Destroyers. It rests at the heart of the Great Destroyer's nest and is assumed to be evil. It's power could have possibly resulted in the creation of the Destroyers themselves. It is also possible that this dragon intentionally sent Destroyers to Glint's lair in order to kill it's nemesis and Glint's offspring.

~~~~

It is safe to assume that awakening dragons, such as the one shown in the final cut scene of EoTN, will play a major role in Guild Wars 2. I wouldn't be surprised if Guildwars 2 was going to be an all our war between several factions of dragons that awaken during the new age.

Some Dragons, like Glint, guide humanity. Other choose to destroy (such as the Destroyer Dragon). The final cutscene of EotN showing the Destroyer Dragon awakening and the attempt by the Destroyers to destroy Glint's offspring are a heavy foreshadowing of the battles between dragons to come.

It is likely that the players will have a role in saving the world as it plummets into chaos due to the dragon wars. This also shows the importance of the races of Guild Wars, since all the races will be affected once the chaos begins.

It is unknown what role the Gods will play if there is a Draconic war on the horizon. This is what I'm forecasting for the setting of Gw2.

Manwithtwohands
20-09-2007, 10:12
I don't know where it came from, but people are talking about a dragon named Primordis or something like that.

Nanashi
20-09-2007, 10:33
3.) Rotscale: A dragon possibly corrupted by the power of undeath that destroyed Orr (likely related to the scepter of Orr which passed into Vizer Khilbron's hands, to which he was reborn as the undead lich). The dragon now seems to have become a husk of its former self and rests atop Majesty's Reach. It is unknown if Rotscale was good or evil before Orr was destroyed. Livia now possesses the Sceptor of Orr. It is unknown whether she will use it for a just cause, or be corrupted by its power.

Well considering we as heroes encounter him, it maybe possible he's dead. Just a creature that escaped death via immortality but like the people in Highlander, immortal does not mean invincible.



5.) Charr Homeland Dragon: A mysterious dragon that slumbers at the center of a lake in the charr homelands. It seems that the island formed around the dragon's massive form. It is unknown if this Dragon is good or evil.

Huge speculation on this one. We do not know what it is. For all we know it's just bones of a creature that lived long ago and now it's bones are being used as a home for the Charr.

I even hoped we would get a Dungeon Mission that would take us through that place. Unfortunately my hopes lead me to be a fool again when concerning GW:EN.



7.) *Speculation* Dragon of Sancoth: Deep within the burning woods it is possibly that a dragon is buried in the area, this dragon might actually be Rodgort. As shown by previous examples, dragons seem to have enormous powers that can change the world. It is possible that the summoning ceremony of the Charr was actually a ritual that channeled the Sancoth Dragon's power in order to call the Searing. More digging around the Charr homelands needs to be done in order to find out if Dragon power was possibly the cause of the Searing.

The power behind the Searing was given by either A) The Bloodstone located somewhere around there. Or B) The Titan's gift through Abaddon. I suppose there's a slim chance but was there even a dragon in that area? If so where, I'd like to look at it sometime.



8.) Dragon at the Central Transfer Chamber (Destroyer Dragon): This dragon was possibly worshipped by the Destroyers. It rests at the heart of the Great Destroyer's nest and is assumed to be evil. It's power could have possibly resulted in the creation of the Destroyers themselves. It is also possible that this dragon intentionally sent Destroyers to Glint's lair in order to kill it's nemesis and Glint's offspring.



Much like Rotscale's current situation. We destroyed it. I doubt it'll play a part in GW2 besides being mentioned in readings found in the games possible Lore. So I don't think it will have any influence in GW2 except be a mere stepping stone for quite possibly the Great Destroy's release.

Manwithtwohands
20-09-2007, 11:06
Does anyone know why Rotscale is there?
I know there is the shrine closeby where the scepter of Orr was and there is a door behind him, but I don't know if he is guarding either.

Nanashi
20-09-2007, 13:10
Does anyone know why Rotscale is there?
I know there is the shrine closeby where the scepter of Orr was and there is a door behind him, but I don't know if he is guarding either.

That door also looks identical to the same door you find in the Underworld past the crawlers and mesmer drake dudes. Me and my friends, when they used to play upon me first starting, would theorize that there was a story to it that quite possibly it the entrance into the Tyrian realm but was locked to prevent the undead from escaping. Then of course Rotscale just outside, we thought he was there in attempts to reopen so that the undead to come back out and reek havoc.

Rob Van Der Sloot
20-09-2007, 13:13
Huge speculation on this one. We do not know what it is. For all we know it's just bones of a creature that lived long ago and now it's bones are being used as a home for the Charr.


No it's correct, that's why I named him in an earlier topic. The "Waterdragon" as it's called, is a slumbering dragon, just like many dragons all over Tyria. Over time the land formed around it, making it into an island. It is not dead, and is most definately one of several dragons, just like the one in Drakar Lake.

aldarionteluvetar
20-09-2007, 15:14
Much like Rotscale's current situation. We destroyed it. I doubt it'll play a part in GW2 besides being mentioned in readings found in the games possible Lore. So I don't think it will have any influence in GW2 except be a mere stepping stone for quite possibly the Great Destroy's release.

I believe the Dragon referred to by the OP is Primordus, the dragon that awakens after we've defeated the Great Destroyer.

lavenbb
20-09-2007, 18:14
I thought people said Rotscale is just a drake, or wyvern? It's much lesser than a dragon.

Valrena
20-09-2007, 18:51
I thought people said Rotscale is just a drake, or wyvern? It's much lesser than a dragon.

I think we do need to differentiate between the drakes and wyverns we currently face in game as monsters and the True Dragons, which appear to be immortal creatures of immense and terrible/awesome power.

So under the True Dragons, we'd find in GW:EN:
Glint
Central Transfer Dragon (possibly Primordis)
Drakkar
The Waterdragon of Grothmar Wardowns/Sacnoth
Undead Dragon from Orr? (rumor)

Under lesser dragons:
Rotscale
Kuunavang (perhaps the closest to a true dragon among the currently awake variations).
Bone Dragons, Saltspray, etc

Any others?

ShadowReapr
20-09-2007, 19:08
While the debate regarding Rotscale's mythological origin can be debated 'til the cows come home, it's flawed to consider it any less of a dragon (It's called a dragon, and that's what's relevant for classification purposes) considering the wide differentiation between, say, Glint and Drakkar.

What's interesting, however, is how Glint and the Destroyer (is there any source for that name?) are quite similar, while incredibly different to, for example, Drakkar. What would be interesting would be to see whether the Waterdragon and Drakkar share any physical similarities. Pairs of dragons, perhaps? The Waterdragon spawned a land where fire rules (The Charr worshipped fire and therefore Titans/Destroyers, not vice versa), whereas Drakkar potentially spawned a land of ice and snow.

Maybe I just like defending Rotscale. First he's stripped of his flesh, then he goes and gets 'buffed' into a green-dropping, mess of a location. It used to be a formation. Now it's madness!

lavenbb
20-09-2007, 19:37
While the debate regarding Rotscale's mythological origin can be debated 'til the cows come home, it's flawed to consider it any less of a dragon (It's called a dragon, and that's what's relevant for classification purposes) considering the wide differentiation between, say, Glint and Drakkar.

What's interesting, however, is how Glint and the Destroyer (is there any source for that name?) are quite similar, while incredibly different to, for example, Drakkar. What would be interesting would be to see whether the Waterdragon and Drakkar share any physical similarities. Pairs of dragons, perhaps? The Waterdragon spawned a land where fire rules (The Charr worshipped fire and therefore Titans/Destroyers, not vice versa), whereas Drakkar potentially spawned a land of ice and snow.

Maybe I just like defending Rotscale. First he's stripped of his flesh, then he goes and gets 'buffed' into a green-dropping, mess of a location. It used to be a formation. Now it's madness!

If the water dragon is a water dragon, then it looked nothing like Glint or Drakkar. It's the only one with a rounded back, and spiked carapace.

Zsig
20-09-2007, 19:37
Honestly, i stopped reading the OP when i saw "affiliated with good".

Dragons have reasons on their on and does not follow such stupid concepts, or at least i hope they don't.

You portrait Glint as good, but even though she knew the other dragons would wake up, and yet she didn't mention anything to us (the good guys).

Maybe as someone already pointed, they're like Immortals (Highlander) and they fight each other for supremacy.

EDIT:(after reading it all)
Regarding to number 7, the forest in flames is not related to a dragon, but instead a Titan, Ignus the Eternal. On one of the many interviews someone said we'd get to see who was the bad guy behind it, and there is in fact a quest that explains it.

Solar Light
20-09-2007, 20:32
I read something on another topic about a dragon ruling the GW2 orr, Rotscale perhaps?

Scutilla
20-09-2007, 21:45
2.) Kuunavang: Canthan Dragon, affiliated with good but temporarily corrupted by Shiro's power, which we now know was actually abaddon's power passed through Shiro by a dark fortune teller. Later freed from the darkness and aids the heroes with Celestial powers.

3.) Rotscale: A dragon possibly corrupted by the power of undeath that destroyed Orr (likely related to the scepter of Orr which passed into Vizer Khilbron's hands, to which he was reborn as the undead lich). The dragon now seems to have become a husk of its former self and rests atop Majesty's Reach. It is unknown if Rotscale was good or evil before Orr was destroyed. Livia now possesses the Sceptor of Orr. It is unknown whether she will use it for a just cause, or be corrupted by its power.
As I mentioned in the main PCG thread, Kuunavang and Rotscale (and their respective species) may not be "true" dragons. I remember some older threads here arguing as such, since they don't fit the "classical" view of dragons as Glint embodies (four legs, lizard-like, etc).

I suppose there's no real way to prove it either way right now. However, Saltspray Dragons, as well as Rockhide Dragons and Drakes (but not Bone Dragons) ARE classified as "dragons" by the game for the purpose of species-slaying weapons.


4.) Rodgort: Dragon of flames and is actually named after Trogdor, the homestar runner burninator. Governs the art of fire and is affiliated with certain elementalist invocations. It is unknown what his affiliation is OR if he is one of the dragons resting somewhere in Tyria.
I'd be hesitant to include this guy, since all we have to base this on is the names and artwork of two skills- not to mention the name itself is a pop culture reference. No mention of him in the lore as far as I know.


5.) Charr Homeland Dragon: A mysterious dragon that slumbers at the center of a lake in the charr homelands. It seems that the island formed around the dragon's massive form. It is unknown if this Dragon is good or evil.
Mind posting the source for this? Was it explained somewhere in EotN lore or in the PCG article?


6.) Dragon of Drakkar Lake: A giant dragon that is frozen beneath Drakkar Lake. It's power corrupted Svanir and severed Jora's connection to Ursan, the bear spirit. It seems that this dragon is possibly malicious, although it could be neutral. Svanir could have possibly used the power gained from the dragon with greed and ambition, causing him to become the Norn Bear as a result. It is unknown whether Svanir's tragedy was maliciously intended by the Dragon or is accidental.
That one I will definitely agree with. "Drakkie" will probably be one of the dragons causing trouble for the Norn and Dredge in GW2.


7.) *Speculation* Dragon of Sancoth: Deep within the burning woods it is possibly that a dragon is buried in the area, this dragon might actually be Rodgort. As shown by previous examples, dragons seem to have enormous powers that can change the world. It is possible that the summoning ceremony of the Charr was actually a ritual that channeled the Sancoth Dragon's power in order to call the Searing. More digging around the Charr homelands needs to be done in order to find out if Dragon power was possibly the cause of the Searing.
As Zsig said, the forest was set on fire by a titan (see the quest "The Smell of Titan in the Morning".


8.) Dragon at the Central Transfer Chamber (Destroyer Dragon): This dragon was possibly worshipped by the Destroyers. It rests at the heart of the Great Destroyer's nest and is assumed to be evil. It's power could have possibly resulted in the creation of the Destroyers themselves. It is also possible that this dragon intentionally sent Destroyers to Glint's lair in order to kill it's nemesis and Glint's offspring.
The PCG article seems to imply that this is Primordus, and that the Destroyers were supposed to awaken him somehow (and the defeat of the Great Destroyer delayed his awakening by 200 years).

Adding to the list, the article also speaks of a dragon that's raising an undead army from the newly-surfaced Orr. I'm not sure whether this is Primordus or another dragon. (I haven't read the actual article yet, all my speculations are based on the snippets people have posted so far.)

Also, I'd recommend this thread (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404814) for a past discussion of the dragons of Tyria.

Zsig
20-09-2007, 22:08
That one I will definitely agree with. "Drakkie" will probably be one of the dragons causing trouble for the Norn and Dredge in GW2.

Even though the name "Drakkar" and all points out as the creature being a dragon, i'm kinda skeptic about it. Somehow i believe it's not one of the "dragons of GW2" but another creature (maybe Mhenzies or whatver it's called). The creature on the lake simply doesn't look like a dragon.



Adding to the list, the article also speaks of a dragon that's raising an undead army from the newly-surfaced Orr. I'm not sure whether this is Primordus or another dragon. (I haven't read the actual article yet, all my speculations are based on the snippets people have posted so far.)

Yes, as far as i could understand that dragon is not Primordus/Primordius/Primordis (sp?) but another one we haven't heard thus far, a dragon that rises in Orr and causes the tidal wave that puts LA underwater. I don't know why but that one kinda reminds me somehow to Atlantis on a weird way.

Manwithtwohands
21-09-2007, 00:50
This is all making me think of the 'weapons' in Final Fantasy. Emerald Weapon, Ruby Weapon, Ultima Weapon. Those super big crazy bosses hidden all over.

Indigo Montari
21-09-2007, 01:11
I'm not sure if this has any baring on all the dragon talk, but wasn't Glint one of the "old gods" first creations?

Zaxares
21-09-2007, 02:03
I'm not sure if this has any baring on all the dragon talk, but wasn't Glint one of the "old gods" first creations?

According to the Forgotten, she was the first creature to be created by the Old Gods (meaning Dwayna, Balthazar, Melandru, Lyssa, Dhuum and Abaddon, since this was from a time before the rise of Grenth and the fall of Abaddon) and tasked with watching over the world.

I haven't seen the Water Dragon yet, but from the descriptions here, it sounds a bit like the Water Dragon resembles a Rockhide Dragon of immense proportions. I don't know whether Scutilla's classification of Rockhide and Saltspray Dragons as 'lesser' dragons is correct, since we know that Kuunavang possesses immense power that rivals (and exceeds, in my opinion) that of Glint.

Rob Van Der Sloot
21-09-2007, 08:07
Even though the name "Drakkar" and all points out as the creature being a dragon, i'm kinda skeptic about it. Somehow i believe it's not one of the "dragons of GW2" but another creature (maybe Mhenzies or whatver it's called). The creature on the lake simply doesn't look like a dragon.

Since they mention in the article that they explicitly included one of the dragons frozen in a lake in GWEN, we KNOW the Drakkar lake monster is a dragon, for a fact.


I haven't seen the Water Dragon yet, but from the descriptions here, it sounds a bit like the Water Dragon resembles a Rockhide Dragon of immense proportions. I don't know whether Scutilla's classification of Rockhide and Saltspray Dragons as 'lesser' dragons is correct, since we know that Kuunavang possesses immense power that rivals (and exceeds, in my opinion) that of Glint.

The Water Dragon doesn't really resemble anything. We can only see it's back, and the spines on top of it. If you've mapped some of the Charr homelands, then you can see it on your map even. In fact, ALL Dragons that are on the surface are so huge, that you can see them on your map.

This raises another question... Isn't Glint way too small to fit among the other dragons?

ygraul
21-09-2007, 08:53
Reminds me - in UW and near Tahnnaki (and other places) we see what appears to be the serpentine body of a Midgaard-style dragon. It seems to be petrified in some depictions - indicating it might have been alive, or is incorporated into the local artwork in others. In Norse myth, the Midgaard serpent caused earthquakes when it awakened and stirred. Wonder if there is some parallel in this world now that we've had our earthquakes and something stirring in the earth... and now talk of dragon power struggles.

The water dragon actually reminded me of one of the ocean-dwelling dinosaurs whose name currently escapes me.

Frostlight
21-09-2007, 09:01
Elsewhere in the magazine (not in the GW2 article), there is a concept art described as a sleeping dragon with an island formed around it. This is in all likelihood the one in the Charr homelands.

Also, these ancient dragons awakening in GW2 are described as far more ancient than Glint.

Rob Van Der Sloot
21-09-2007, 09:14
Reminds me - in UW and near Tahnnaki (and other places) we see what appears to be the serpentine body of a Midgaard-style dragon. It seems to be petrified in some depictions - indicating it might have been alive, or is incorporated into the local artwork in others. In Norse myth, the Midgaard serpent caused earthquakes when it awakened and stirred. Wonder if there is some parallel in this world now that we've had our earthquakes and something stirring in the earth... and now talk of dragon power struggles.

Actually the Twin Serpents in UW are no mystery at all. All you need to do is read the quest descriptions. They are not part of the dragon saga.


"Long ago, the god of death was challenged to a duel by two brothers. Grenth was so angered by these two mortals, that instead of simply granting them the sweet peace of death, he turned them into twin serpents and forced them to serve him in the Rift for the rest of eternity. This mountain stands as a reminder to all those who serve Grenth. Be careful that you do not incur such a punishment."

Manwithtwohands
21-09-2007, 09:17
I haven't done Shards of Orr yet, so can someone tell me what this 'dragon room' the wiki mentions?
Is it a room with decayed dragons or is there a sleeping dragon down there.

jayson
21-09-2007, 09:46
Some have considered Rotscale a wyvern or lesser dragon. But if you look at it closer you'd see it's more like Glint. Look at it's "tail" and you'd notice that it actually looks like its spine has been severed just above it's back legs. Put back on the legs and a proper tail and it would be a dragon in the true sense. The dragon in Drakkar lake appears more like a sea serpent then anything else. It has flippers instead of legs and no wings.

Rob Van Der Sloot
21-09-2007, 13:51
Some have considered Rotscale a wyvern or lesser dragon. But if you look at it closer you'd see it's more like Glint. Look at it's "tail" and you'd notice that it actually looks like its spine has been severed just above it's back legs. Put back on the legs and a proper tail and it would be a dragon in the true sense. The dragon in Drakkar lake appears more like a sea serpent then anything else. It has flippers instead of legs and no wings.

You are correct. Rotscale is a dragon cut in half. It's moving on it's front legs.
I always assumed that it was a rotting dragon carcass, and during the rotting the rear half simply fell off. So it used to be a complete dragon on 4 legs.

http://www2.hku.nl/~rob3/3dbonedragon.jpg

Divinity Archer
21-09-2007, 14:02
You are correct. Rotscale is a dragon cut in half. It's moving on it's front legs.
I always assumed that it was a rotting dragon carcass, and during the rotting the rear half simply fell off. So it used to be a complete dragon on 4 legs.

Interesting point of view, I never really looked at it that way.
Actually, now that I look closer, his tail looks indeed more like his spine in some way.

Valrena
21-09-2007, 19:01
Some have considered Rotscale a wyvern or lesser dragon. But if you look at it closer you'd see it's more like Glint. Look at it's "tail" and you'd notice that it actually looks like its spine has been severed just above it's back legs. Put back on the legs and a proper tail and it would be a dragon in the true sense. The dragon in Drakkar lake appears more like a sea serpent then anything else. It has flippers instead of legs and no wings.

Not all dragons have wings.

We can't be totally certain those are flippers...yes they are currently turned sideways and resemble them, but they also bear a strong resemblance to the legs you can see on destroyers. Since it was apparently asleep when the water surrounded it, it's possible it's legs appear like that because they are relaxed and floating in the water...or rather were at the time of the freezing.

There is evidence for either case, so sadly looks like we'll have to wait for GW2 to get confirmation on whether it is land or aquatic based.

Good point about the missing portion possibility on Rotscale...though I would still call him a lesser dragon, in the sense that Kuunavang is a lesser dragon, since neither wield the same level of power that the awakening ones do.

Karuro
21-09-2007, 19:25
Back to Kuunavang... I thought she was just a more evolved Saltspray dragon?

Indigo Montari
21-09-2007, 23:54
lesser dragons..... I thought that the greater dragons were the ones that showed a sentient intelligence and in most cases were as smart or showed a greater intelligence than humans. In this case the lesser dragons are the ones that act with animal instincts. If this is so then Kuunavang would be classed as a greater dragon. As for power lvls - Kuunavang could simply be younger than the others.


In Norse myth, the Midgaard serpent caused earthquakes when it awakened and stirred. Wonder if there is some parallel in this world now that we've had our earthquakes and something stirring in the earth... and now talk of dragon power struggles.


This could be, as the battle that we face against the destroyers and the lore that goes along with that is kind of based off of Ragnarok

tommynj
22-09-2007, 00:18
Welcome to Dragon Wars. All this dragon stuff is really cool. Dragons have been with us since the first days of prophecies and now more seem to be coming to life in the future.

semantic
22-09-2007, 10:56
If that thing that's half-buried between the Wardowns and the Uplands decides to stand up (which, by the way, it looks like it could at any moment) and say "I am a Dragon", we're going to be forced to ask Glint what species of insect she is. That thing is staggeringly immense. If you're standing there when it wakes up, you might as well /resign and watch the show. Poor little Glint would hardly be a snack for "Grothmar".

"Riiiiiight, Glinty. You're a 'Dragon', sweethart. Here's a cookie."

Rob Van Der Sloot
22-09-2007, 14:36
Well that was a point that I made earlier. Glint is way too small compared to these other dragons. Is she really one of them?

Sir Jack
22-09-2007, 16:05
I'd be hesitant to include this guy, since all we have to base this on is the names and artwork of two skills- not to mention the name itself is a pop culture reference. No mention of him in the lore as far as I know.


There's actually an Image of Rodgort that can be found on pillars outside Serenity Temple. Rodgort is a Dragon like Glint, but standing on it's hind legs. Looks a bit like Charizard :P


Well that was a point that I made earlier. Glint is way too small compared to these other dragons. Is she really one of them?

While I don't have the magazine myself, I think someone mentioned that the Magazine mentioned that Glint was actually one of the younger Dragons. That could explain the difference in size. Though that's actually contradictory to the statement that Glint was the first creature ever made by the Gods.
Which would mean that the Gods may have usurped the powers of the Dragons, and afterwards were able to create dragons themselves, or at least control them.

semantic
22-09-2007, 16:07
Well that was a point that I made earlier. Glint is way too small compared to these other dragons. Is she really one of them?

It looks unlikely, but I suppose it's possible. Perhaps these other Dragons spent hundreds or even thousands of years gobbling up the populations of entire continents before they were lulled to sleep, whereas Glint gets by on grains of sand or whatever it is she eats. Or they might have focused their unrivaled magical powers on increasing their size and strength.

It's safe to assume the Dragons were/are more closely attuned to the magic of the world than any other living things. So, although it hasn't been mentioned specifically, it probably also makes sense that during the time when magic was 'pure' and being misused, Dragons were the biggest abusers. There's just no telling what they would have been capable of back then, or what their abilities will be in GW2 assuming their powers haven't faded.

I also assume the creation of the Bloodstones is what put the Dragons to sleep. The primordial Dragons must have literally breathed magic, so when the magical energy of the world was sundered into 4 distinct flows (or pieces, or however you want to describe it), it must have been a tremendous shock to their systems. Hibernation seems like a plausible response. The pure, rich energy they were accustomed to no longer existed in a form that could support their immense needs, so they shut everything down to wait out this cycle of the world. They would have known, in some sense, that the Bloostone solution was temporary - that the world would eventually reject this artificial order imposed by the Gods on behalf of mortals - and that they would again reign supreme. Besides, it's not as if they had anything to fear, even when dormant.

So the question I have about the Dragons in GW2 is really about the Bloodstones. Are the Bloodstones losing their grip, or will they be re-assembled or perhaps destroyed?* Are the Dragons tired of waiting for the cycle to end? Are they waking up specifically to attempt the destruction of the Bloodstones?

Whatever their reasons, you can bet they'll be hungry.

* This is really a question about game mechanics in GW2. Will there be dedicated skillsets (i.e. classes) in GW2, or are they going to use some entirely new structural methodology to balance the game (for example, lateral instead of vertical)? I assume that is the case, since it's the structure of the current system and its inability to support further comlexity that prompted them to pop the top on an entirely new system. I mean, they've already said there's going to be a new system, just not to my knowledge whether that system will involve classes as we know them.

Tyrilha Elindhel
22-09-2007, 22:50
I just wonder how as Human/Charr/Sylvari or even worse as an Asura will I be able to defeat one of the dragon.
I'll probably hurt them as much as one ant (common garden species of course) trying to kill me.

Maybe it'll be done through a series of quests in which you diminish their powers.
Or a kind of huge dungeon assault like.

*dreams about 50-100 ppl PUG size against Primordius*

Rob Van Der Sloot
23-09-2007, 01:38
I just wonder how as Human/Charr/Sylvari or even worse as an Asura will I be able to defeat one of the dragon.
I'll probably hurt them as much as one ant (common garden species of course) trying to kill me.

Maybe it'll be done through a series of quests in which you diminish their powers.
Or a kind of huge dungeon assault like.

*dreams about 50-100 ppl PUG size against Primordius*

We already killed a god, and two smaller dragons. Surely a big dragon shouldn't be very hard?

Caesura
23-09-2007, 01:53
Quote from the PCgamer article:

"The Cataclysms that flooded Lion's Arch were not caused by natural forces, no more than the earthquakes that freed the destroyers in the northern shiverpeaks. These were both caused by the surfacing of ancient powers -- true dragons, more dangerous than anything Tyria has ever known before. Glint and Kuunavaang. were but youths, lesser powers to the ancients that came before. These mystic and terrifying creatures rival the gods themselves."

So... yeah Glint is not one of the major dragons. :rolleyes:

chemiclord
23-09-2007, 02:14
Also, "dragon" is a very vague term.

Kuunavang more resembles the oriental depictions of dragons than the western iteration... doesn't make Kuunavang any "less" of a dragon inherently.

All of the "dragon" designs I have seen so far resemble one of the many varied depictions of the creatures from around the world.

mocax
23-09-2007, 06:10
Ooh, Dragon Lords!
Terrifying beings whose power rivals the gods and took dragons as pets.
I'd like to see the Valheru in some form or other in GW2...

If Glint's one of the weak ones that weren't chosen as steeds or the Dragon Lords, she'd probably be rather bitter and would help anyone who can beat the bad guys.

Kashrlyyk
23-09-2007, 07:30
....
You portrait Glint as good, but even though she knew the other dragons would wake up, and yet she didn't mention anything to us (the good guys).


That is easy to answer: ANet didn┤t know it back then! There are 2 dragons outside of GWEN. And at least 3 inside GWEN. Someone mentioned it on a different thread, they are retroactively changing the lore of the game.


...These mystic and terrifying creatures rival the gods themselves."

And how can we have any chance against them with only that useless Kormir?

That water dragon in the Char homeland reminds me of the D&D Tarasque.

Shazard
23-09-2007, 11:50
Quote from the PCgamer article:

"The Cataclysms that flooded Lion's Arch were not caused by natural forces, no more than the earthquakes that freed the destroyers in the northern shiverpeaks. These were both caused by the surfacing of ancient powers -- true dragons, more dangerous than anything Tyria has ever known before. Glint and Kuunavaang. were but youths, lesser powers to the ancients that came before. These mystic and terrifying creatures rival the gods themselves."

So... yeah Glint is not one of the major dragons. :rolleyes:

The bolded part. That right there confirm that Kuunavaang is a dragon, and not just a lesser being like those saltspray or drake.

Rob Van Der Sloot
23-09-2007, 12:58
The bolded part. That right there confirm that Kuunavaang is a dragon, and not just a lesser being like those saltspray or drake.

Not only that, but it suggest they might be lesser offspring of the ancient dragons that we'll be fighting in GW2. Much like Drakes and Saltspray Dragons, they are all that now remains of these once great giants.

mocax
23-09-2007, 15:25
There's a baby dragon too (Glint's Challenge). Probably all the eggs hatched and create a nuisance in GW2.

kburt
23-09-2007, 16:38
If that thing that's half-buried between the Wardowns and the Uplands decides to stand up (which, by the way, it looks like it could at any moment) and say "I am a Dragon", we're going to be forced to ask Glint what species of insect she is. That thing is staggeringly immense. If you're standing there when it wakes up, you might as well /resign and watch the show. Poor little Glint would hardly be a snack for "Grothmar".

"Riiiiiight, Glinty. You're a 'Dragon', sweethart. Here's a cookie."


Just to give some perspective I have spent the last few days trying to unfog as much as I can around this creature. But I can't even get it to the point to where I can tell which end is the head or tail. But, if you look at the screeny you get some perspective as to how large it is by comparing what you can see to Doomlore Shrine.

http://i2.turboimagehost.com/t/370051_Goth_dragon.JPG (http://i.turboimagehost.com/p/370051/Goth_dragon.JPG.html)

This screeny is up close with the U-map for comparison:

http://i2.turboimagehost.com/t/370053_gw165.jpg (http://i.turboimagehost.com/p/370053/gw165.jpg.html)

Tide to Go
23-09-2007, 18:05
let us re-bring our attention to the drawing

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/pc/game/previews/article.jsp?sectionId=1001&articleId=2007040916325477081&releaseId=20070327111030501040

semantic
23-09-2007, 19:36
..
This screeny is up close with the U-map for comparison:

http://i2.turboimagehost.com/t/370053_gw165.jpg (http://i.turboimagehost.com/p/370053/gw165.jpg.html)

If you go further south, you can see one of the Dragon's scales is exposed.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8247/grothmarscalewx6.jpg

That one scale appears to be about the size of a Jotun, which gives some idea how big the whole thing is in relation to some of the largest creatures we're acquainted with.


let us re-bring our attention to the drawing

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/pc/game/previews/article.jsp?sectionId=1001&articleId=2007040916325477081&releaseId=20070327111030501040

The beast in that concept art looks like it might be 1/10th the size of 'Grothmar'.

Celestial Kitsune
23-09-2007, 22:30
Dragon List



Dragons we've seen so far:

- Glint
- Kuunavang
- Rotscale
- Water dragon (Charr territory)
- Drakkar Lake dragon (The elder dragon of ice and snow)
- Glint's baby dragon (s/he will be 250+ years old in GW2)

GW2 Dragons (according to the PC Gamer)

- Primordius. He was the first of the dragons to awaken (we see him at the end of GWEN). He can animate creatures from earth and stone and still dwells in the deep caverns beneath Tyria.
- Undead dragon. More horrible and more powerful than any other being in Tyria, awakened beneath Orr and caused it to rise from the ocean.
- Desert dragon occupies northern Crystal Desert. I think this is actually the dragon depicted on the concept art. The spikes on her/his back look somewhat different than those of the Water Dragon. Also, if you look at the picture, it looks like they are fighting in the desert.

Shazard
24-09-2007, 03:22
Not only that, but it suggest they might be lesser offspring of the ancient dragons that we'll be fighting in GW2. Much like Drakes and Saltspray Dragons, they are all that now remains of these once great giants.

Except I thought the variety species of drakes are nothing more than dumb beast...big and strong, but just mere beast. There's no evident that they have sentient level of intelligent.

Unai
24-09-2007, 07:16
I just noticed that the dragon in charr territory goes further than the thing we see in the map (look in the center-up part of the image)
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/2127/nuevo1lh1.jpg
I think it has some similarities with the concept art beast (I don't have time to confirm right notw). And looks more like Earth Dragon to me.

Rob Van Der Sloot
24-09-2007, 08:01
http://www.gamesradar.com/us//images/mb//GamesRadar/us/Games/G/Guild%20Wars%202/Everything%20Else/OBS1--screenshot_large.jpg

Now this is interesting. Could this be what the Waterdragon looks like if it were ever to awake?


Except I thought the variety species of drakes are nothing more than dumb beast...big and strong, but just mere beast. There's no evident that they have sentient level of intelligent.

They are, you are quite correct. I think they are offspring of the old dragons in a way, but just a more simplified evolutionary path. Devolution if you will.


- Desert dragon occupies northern Crystal Desert. I think this is actually the dragon depicted on the concept art. The spikes on her/his back look somewhat different than those of the Water Dragon. Also, if you look at the picture, it looks like they are fighting in the desert.

Still, it's odd that there would also be a dragon in the desert, yet we haven't seen it yet. These things are huge, we can't possibly have missed it.


- Undead dragon. More horrible and more powerful than any other being in Tyria, awakened beneath Orr and caused it to rise from the ocean.

Perhaps we can find this dragon too, perhaps in Shards of Orr. I'd better go and check.

Sir Jack
24-09-2007, 08:30
Small note about the size:

Could it be possible the Water Dragon (Grothmar) is the only dragon that kept on growing? When you look at the size of it, it's huge. Frikkin' Huge. Huge even compared to Drakkar and the Destroyer Dragon.
Now, Dragons in most mythologies behave like reptiles. Some reptiles are only able to grow to the poin their habitat allows them. This seems to be the case in GW as well. Glint, being locked up in a grain of sand isn't that much bigger than her new young, which is quite large already and can be found elsewhere than Glint's crammed up place.
Drakkar is frozen solid in a lake, doesn't quite promote growth either. The Destroyer Dragon was wrapped up in stone, most likely a hot Magma Shower encasing him, which would also limit his growth.
Then we have Grothmar, which is asleep and a bit of an island grew arund it. That really wouldn't stop him from growing. It could even be at such a speed that most Charr never even realised. Say it grows 1 cm per year. That'd be 1 Meter per 100 years. That wouldn't really be noticeable. Now, if they've been asleep for 10000 years, he'd have grown 100 meters over his entire body. That could explain the size of Grothmar compared to the other Dragons.

Quintus Antonius
24-09-2007, 13:52
It's also possible he represents the Norse concept of the world-dragon that is wrapped around the world.

mocax
24-09-2007, 15:22
If the gods created Glint, then she's not a "real" dragon. She's probably a living monument to the vanquishing of the old titans by the relatively newer gods.

As to how the old dragons lost their domination of the planet (or at least the charted lands), it could be internal strife. They grew too big to be comfortable with each other. A single dragon probably needed a subcontinent-sized hunting area.

themagicmoedee
24-09-2007, 18:58
It's also possible he represents the Norse concept of the world-dragon that is wrapped around the world.

You mean J÷rmungandr? I suppose so, but Norse mythology is a good bit more fatalistic than what I'm used to seeing. I suppose he could be a radically reworked version (depends on how generous we're being with dragons - breath weapons, for instance), though I wouldn't expect him to poison the sky.

Santax
24-09-2007, 20:45
http://www.gamesradar.com/us//images/mb//GamesRadar/us/Games/G/Guild%20Wars%202/Everything%20Else/OBS1--screenshot_large.jpg

Now this is interesting. Could this be what the Waterdragon looks like if it were ever to awake?



They are, you are quite correct. I think they are offspring of the old dragons in a way, but just a more simplified evolutionary path. Devolution if you will.



Still, it's odd that there would also be a dragon in the desert, yet we haven't seen it yet. These things are huge, we can't possibly have missed it.



Perhaps we can find this dragon too, perhaps in Shards of Orr. I'd better go and check.
I'd say that art is probably early concepts for a Destroyer of Hope. We know the dragons to be much, much bigger than that.

The Boz
24-09-2007, 21:27
Regarding the Grothmar island Dragon... how come noone has yet thought of the possibility of it being an egg?
Glint is very crystal-like, and so are her eggs. So would it be so farfetched to assume a carpaced egg? There are several of those in the real world, and I believe some to be represented in the game as well.

liamSlayer
24-09-2007, 21:48
If that is a egg the thing that layed it would of had to be the size of lions arch to Santcum kay >.<

Celestial Kitsune
25-09-2007, 16:01
Information missing from the PC Gamer article about new dragons


After Primordus, the other great dragons began to stir one by one. The rise of the dragon beneath Orr caused the entire continent to surface, sparking a tidal wave that swept the coastline and drowned thousands. In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land. Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon. The land directly below the path of the dragonĺs flight was corrupted, becoming a crater of horror. The ground blackened from the dragon's presence and any creatures caught within the wind of its breath twisted and changed.

Although these creatures are called dragons, they are as different from Kuunavang and Glint as night to dayŚmore powerful, older, born of different, unfathomable magic, these horrors are controlled by no god nor any other power known to the races of Tyria. What connection they have to these "younger dragons" is unknown, but they certainly do not possess the mercy or familiarity with the sentient races of the world that Kuunavang or Glint portray. The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosityŚno concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

Source (http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007/09/92407_-_ultimat.html)

Rob Van Der Sloot
25-09-2007, 17:01
I'd say that art is probably early concepts for a Destroyer of Hope. We know the dragons to be much, much bigger than that.

Well NOW they are much bigger. But that's why they call it concept art. Sometimes things are rescaled.

The waterdragon for example, was originally designed to be far bigger (http://guildwars.systemshock.co.za/gallery2/d/3656-4/waterdragon+.jpg) than it is in the game.

All the destroyer concept art features fiery creatures, and this concept isn't fiery at all. In fact, it has nothing in common with the Destroyers at all. It's spines however do resemble those of the Waterdragon.

Valrena
25-09-2007, 21:14
Information missing from the PC Gamer article about new dragons


After Primordus, the other great dragons began to stir one by one. The rise of the dragon beneath Orr caused the entire continent to surface, sparking a tidal wave that swept the coastline and drowned thousands. In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land. Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon. The land directly below the path of the dragonĺs flight was corrupted, becoming a crater of horror. The ground blackened from the dragon's presence and any creatures caught within the wind of its breath twisted and changed.

Although these creatures are called dragons, they are as different from Kuunavang and Glint as night to dayŚmore powerful, older, born of different, unfathomable magic, these horrors are controlled by no god nor any other power known to the races of Tyria. What connection they have to these "younger dragons" is unknown, but they certainly do not possess the mercy or familiarity with the sentient races of the world that Kuunavang or Glint portray. The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosityŚno concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

Source (http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007/09/92407_-_ultimat.html)


:shocked:

We're screwed.:cry:

The Boz
26-09-2007, 00:27
Cynn: I am using Meteor Shower on Giant Dragon!
*giant meteors fall on top of the giant dragon*
Cynn: Why isn't he attacking us?
Dwayna: Maybe he is afraid?
Mhenlo: I don't think he noticed us yet.

Yah, we're in for a fun ride.
And that concept also disproves my idea of it being an egg... Damn, that thing is hewg.

Celestial Kitsune
26-09-2007, 02:13
Glint's baby will help us ;)

Valrena
26-09-2007, 02:19
Glint's baby will help us ;)

"Go on little guy, get in there and get em......"

:undecided:

:shocked:

:yikes:

:upset:

Zaxares
26-09-2007, 03:50
So we have five known Elder Dragons at this point in time:

1. Primordus, the Dragon of the Earth. We know that he possesses powers over Earth and Stone (and possibly fire too)

2. Drakkar, the Dragon of Ice and Snow. Drakkar may not be his/her real name, but we know that it is the dragon buried under Drakkar Lake.

3. The Dragon of the Depths. From the article, we know that it has powers over Water, and apparently this includes ANY body of water anywhere in the world.

4. The Dragon of Orr. We know that this dragon has powers over death and undeath, but not much else.

5. The Dragon of the North. This dragon apparently burst from the Northern mountains of the Charr territory. It's unclear if this is the same creature we see in Grothmar, but it seems a likely conclusion. It's only verified powers is that it has something to do with corruption.

I wonder if there are other Elder Dragons out there in the world. It seems silly to presume that all the dragons are specific to Tyria; my guess is that there would be at least a number of dragons awakening under Cantha and Elona as well. We simply haven't heard about them due to a lack of open communication.

Troal
26-09-2007, 03:52
The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosityŚno concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

Source (http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007/09/92407_-_ultimat.html)


The "cycle of their awakening," eh? So they've gone to sleep and woken up before? Could they, perhaps, have been the cause of the Giganticus Lupicus' extinction?

I'm tempted to revive our theory on Tyria's cycle of rebirth. Perhaps the natural force for rebirth we had originally identified as the Great Destroyer is actually these dragons.

Quintus Antonius
26-09-2007, 04:13
So we have five known Elder Dragons at this point in time:

1. Primordus, the Dragon of the Earth. We know that he possesses powers over Earth and Stone (and possibly fire too)

2. Drakkar, the Dragon of Ice and Snow. Drakkar may not be his/her real name, but we know that it is the dragon buried under Drakkar Lake.

3. The Dragon of the Depths. From the article, we know that it has powers over Water, and apparently this includes ANY body of water anywhere in the world.

4. The Dragon of Orr. We know that this dragon has powers over death and undeath, but not much else.

5. The Dragon of the North. This dragon apparently burst from the Northern mountains of the Charr territory. It's unclear if this is the same creature we see in Grothmar, but it seems a likely conclusion. It's only verified powers is that it has something to do with corruption.

I wonder if there are other Elder Dragons out there in the world. It seems silly to presume that all the dragons are specific to Tyria; my guess is that there would be at least a number of dragons awakening under Cantha and Elona as well. We simply haven't heard about them due to a lack of open communication.


I believe 5 and 3 are meant to be the same one.

Valrena
26-09-2007, 04:13
The "cycle of their awakening," eh? So they've gone to sleep and woken up before? Could they, perhaps, have been the cause of the Giganticus Lupicus' extinction?

I'm tempted to revive our theory on Tyria's cycle of rebirth. Perhaps the natural force for rebirth we had originally identified as the Great Destroyer is actually these dragons.


And as such, the GD IS part of that cycle, just not in control of it like we thought, since the GD is the general for Primordus original intended return.

And Quintus, the dragon who controls the water awoke from the deepest parts of the sea, so I do not believe the Grothmar one is the same one.

oxylus
26-09-2007, 07:25
3. The Dragon of the Depths. From the article, we know that it has powers over Water, and apparently this includes ANY body of water anywhere in the world.

5. The Dragon of the North. This dragon apparently burst from the Northern mountains of the Charr territory. It's unclear if this is the same creature we see in Grothmar, but it seems a likely conclusion. It's only verified powers is that it has something to do with corruption.

I believe 5 and 3 are meant to be the same one.


Quintus, I assume you base that on the concept artwork that titled the Grothmar dragon as "Water Dragon"? Is it possible that the lore has changed since that concept art was done? If we go by the history as published in the PCG Guide:


In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed..

That does not sound like the Grothmar dragon or anything else in the far north - there isn't a deep sea up there that we are aware of. This is followed up by :


Only a few years ago, yet another dragon erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon.

Which certainly sounds like the Grothmar dragon, based on the location.

My question is, does this Grothmar dragon fly south all the way to the northern Crystal Desert and set up operations there? The origin of the dragon is not mentioned only that it is there an dragon based in the north of the desert while Joko controls the (now fertile) south.

Jair of the Forest
26-09-2007, 07:30
My question is, does this Grothmar dragon fly south all the way to the northern Crystal Desert and set up operations there? The origin of the dragon is not mentioned only that it is there an dragon based in the north of the desert while Joko controls the (now fertile) south.

Don't you think they mean that Undead Dragon that took control over the newly raised Orrian Peninsula? As far as I know Orr used to be [and probably will be] north-west of the Crystal Desert.

Pumpkin Master
26-09-2007, 07:40
Dragons sofar I have been able to read about:

1: Primordius
2: "Drakkar", chasing the Norn South, out of their original territory
3: Undead Orr Dragon, cause of rise of Orr from the sea
4: Dragon from the Depth of the Sea, twisting the waters to tentacled horrors
5: Grothmar Dragon, located in Charr Territory
6: Dragon of the North, erupted from the Northern Mountains, flew south over Charr territory
7: Dragon of the Northern Desert

nr 5 & 6 I am having a bit of trouble with, as if nr. 6 flew over Charr territory he must have "seen" the Grothmar Dragon, which might have had an interesting result


-first post in Lore Forum-

oxylus
26-09-2007, 07:48
Don't you think they mean that Undead Dragon that took control over the newly raised Orrian Peninsula? As far as I know Orr used to be [and probably will be] north-west of the Crystal Desert.

Orr is the peninsula that sticks out to the west from the crystal desert, almost to the Chain of Fire Islands (the remains form a set of islands). That places the centre of Orr and Arrah far from the Crystal Desert. Hence I don't believe the Orrian dragon and the northern Crystal Desert dragon to be the same.

Jair of the Forest
26-09-2007, 08:13
Well than..there is one other option: the Northern Crystal Dragon is Glint/Glint's Baby. The entrance to here lair is in the northern Crystal Desert, and officially..she IS a dragon. Too, her baby might even become bigger than Glint herself, noticing its size at young age. This means that in 2 ages we might be encountering Glint's Baby as a very young Elder Dragon.

Rob Van Der Sloot
26-09-2007, 08:47
Well than..there is one other option: the Northern Crystal Dragon is Glint/Glint's Baby. The entrance to here lair is in the northern Crystal Desert, and officially..she IS a dragon. Too, her baby might even become bigger than Glint herself, noticing its size at young age. This means that in 2 ages we might be encountering Glint's Baby as a very young Elder Dragon.

Ehh, no that is not an option. Read the other text from a few posts back:


Although these creatures are called dragons, they are as different from Kuunavang and Glint as night to dayŚmore powerful, older, born of different, unfathomable magic, these horrors are controlled by no god nor any other power known to the races of Tyria. What connection they have to these "younger dragons" is unknown, but they certainly do not possess the mercy or familiarity with the sentient races of the world that Kuunavang or Glint portray. The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosityŚno concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

So it's the other way around. Glint is the younger one, and these dragons are far far older.

Jair of the Forest
26-09-2007, 14:26
So it's the other way around. Glint is the younger one, and these dragons are far far older.

You misunderstood me. I never mentioned that Glint was any older than the Elders but I only said that she is also an option for being the north Crystal Desert dragon.

Glints baby I was talking about is a little Dragon, which the Brotherhood of the Dragon claims to be Glints Child, and that you have to defend during an EotN Challenge Mission. It looks fairly big at its age, so I thought one day it might become way more powerful than Glint is now. If that confused you, sorry, I think I had to spoiler it before posting it.

Quintus Antonius
26-09-2007, 14:30
That's just not likely though. If Glint is described as a mere child compared to the elder dragons, then it is highly unlikely her child is going to be some mega destroyer with the power of the elder dragons.

jayson
26-09-2007, 18:55
I'm probably way off here but I was wondering if there's a connection between the destroyers and the titans? Both seem to be made from molten rock. The big difference is that the titans are intelligent where as the destroyers are drones. What I wondered is if the titans were possibly made and rebelled against Primorus? The mistake was to give them free will so he locked them away and created one general who commanded non intelligent destroyers. Abaddon seeing that the titans had no loyalty for primordus, freed them and used them to further his plans for domination after his defeat by the other gods. It seems probable now that the gods knew the dragons would eventually awaken again so abbadon thought to shore up his armies when they returned. It's even possible Abaddon knew of their existence before his defeat as well. I'm sure some lore buff here would know more then I do.

Quintus Antonius
26-09-2007, 19:06
I think you are onto something, jayson. Maybe it isn't as complex as that though. Remember, the Titans are from the Foundry of Failed Creations. We always assumed that this meant failed godly creations, but it may be that the Titans were the original drones of Primordius, and after he was defeated, they were locked away, much like Abaddon and the Margonites. They may have just sided with Abaddon because it suited them at the time, Primordius being dormant and all.

Jair of the Forest
26-09-2007, 19:07
I'm probably way off here but I was wondering if there's a connection between the destroyers and the titans? Both seem to be made from molten rock. The big difference is that the titans are intelligent where as the destroyers are drones. What I wondered is if the titans were possibly made and rebelled against Primorus? The mistake was to give them free will so he locked them away and created one general who commanded non intelligent destroyers. Abaddon seeing that the titans had no loyalty for primordus, freed them and used them to further his plans for domination after his defeat by the other gods. It seems probable now that the gods knew the dragons would eventually awaken again so abbadon thought to shore up his armies when they returned. It's even possible Abaddon knew of their existence before his defeat as well. I'm sure some lore buff here would know more then I do.

Never looked at it that way, seems like a possibility, even though there is some lack of a clear link.

EDIT: Ah it seems Quint posted right before me, so I'll just gratz him with the argument I couldn't come up with.

jayson
26-09-2007, 19:37
Has it been proven yet as to why the dragons are sleeping? I didn't go with the idea that the titans were banished by the gods because I didn't know if it was the gods that put the dragons to sleep. I had always assumed that they had been sleeping before the time of the gods and long before humans.

Jair of the Forest
26-09-2007, 19:50
Well if they are the Giganticus Lupicus some of us think them to be, they've must've been asleep for over 10,000 years. Guild Wars Prophecies Manual: Book 1:

10,000 BE
Last sign of Giganticus Lupicus [the great giants] walking on the Tyrian Continent [best guess].

What caused them to go asleep[, hibernating or whatever] is currently unkown and we can only guess about that. But the other facts on the calendars say that like 8,500 years later, the Forgotten were send to Tyria, and another 1,500 years later, the humans appear for the first time. So they started sleeping way before human existence. When the Gods fist appeared..we don't really know [yet].

Valrena
26-09-2007, 20:46
Well if they are the Giganticus Lupicus some of us think them to be, they've must've been asleep for over 10,000 years. Guild Wars Prophecies Manual: Book 1:


What caused them to go asleep[, hibernating or whatever] is currently unkown and we can only guess about that. But the other facts on the calendars say that like 8,500 years later, the Forgotten were send to Tyria, and another 1,500 years later, the humans appear for the first time. So they started sleeping way before human existence. When the Gods fist appeared..we don't really know [yet].

It's possible they are the reason for the demise of the GL, and entered a dormant state after totally destroying Tyria (a la Reign of Fire dragons).

Shazard
26-09-2007, 23:45
Dragons sofar I have been able to read about:

1: Primordius
2: "Drakkar", chasing the Norn South, out of their original territory
3: Undead Orr Dragon, cause of rise of Orr from the sea
4: Dragon from the Depth of the Sea, twisting the waters to tentacled horrors
5: Grothmar Dragon, located in Charr Territory
6: Dragon of the North, erupted from the Northern Mountains, flew south over Charr territory
7: Dragon of the Northern Desert

nr 5 & 6 I am having a bit of trouble with, as if nr. 6 flew over Charr territory he must have "seen" the Grothmar Dragon, which might have had an interesting result


-first post in Lore Forum-

Well, that still depend on wether or not the two dragon (5&6) wake up at the same time.

If the dragon #6 wake up first, then fly south while Grothmar still under deep sleep, nothing would happen.


I think you are onto something, jayson. Maybe it isn't as complex as that though. Remember, the Titans are from the Foundry of Failed Creations. We always assumed that this meant failed godly creations, but it may be that the Titans were the original drones of Primordius, and after he was defeated, they were locked away, much like Abaddon and the Margonites. They may have just sided with Abaddon because it suited them at the time, Primordius being dormant and all.

That sound plausible, except you forgot about the ice titans. I just don't see Primordius creating those.

Celestial Kitsune
27-09-2007, 00:24
That's just not likely though. If Glint is described as a mere child compared to the elder dragons, then it is highly unlikely her child is going to be some mega destroyer with the power of the elder dragons.

Glint's baby will not fight those dragons directly, s/he will guide us with her/his infinite (well, 250-year-old+ :P) wisdom :)

Quintus Antonius
27-09-2007, 00:28
That sound plausible, except you forgot about the ice titans. I just don't see Primordius creating those.

Titans aren't a certain element by nature. They are spirits that take on a form based upon the latent elements around them.

Rob Van Der Sloot
27-09-2007, 00:36
Yes, the Titans can take any form. In the Foundry of Failed Creations itself they seem to take the form of the fear and agony of that area instead of an element.

Also the Dragons predate Giganticus Lupicus, I remember reading that in one of the GW2 quotes.


It's possible they are the reason for the demise of the GL, and entered a dormant state after totally destroying Tyria (a la Reign of Fire dragons).

Interesting.

kburt
27-09-2007, 01:42
Well if they are the Giganticus Lupicus some of us think them to be, they've must've been asleep for over 10,000 years. Guild Wars Prophecies Manual: Book 1:


What caused them to go asleep[, hibernating or whatever] is currently unkown and we can only guess about that. But the other facts on the calendars say that like 8,500 years later, the Forgotten were send to Tyria, and another 1,500 years later, the humans appear for the first time. So they started sleeping way before human existence. When the Gods fist appeared..we don't really know [yet].


They existed before the Giganticus Lupicus. From the PCG GW2 article:
Although these creatures are called dragons, they are as different from Kuunavang and Glint as night to dayŚmore powerful, older, born of different, unfathomable magic, these horrors are controlled by no god nor any other power known to the races of Tyria. What connection they have to these "younger dragons" is unknown, but they certainly do not possess the mercy or familiarity with the sentient races of the world that Kuunavang or Glint portray. The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosityŚno concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

Jair of the Forest
27-09-2007, 07:00
They existed before the Giganticus Lupicus. From the PCG GW2 article:
Although these creatures are called dragons, they are as different from Kuunavang and Glint as night to dayŚmore powerful, older, born of different, unfathomable magic, these horrors are controlled by no god nor any other power known to the races of Tyria. What connection they have to these "younger dragons" is unknown, but they certainly do not possess the mercy or familiarity with the sentient races of the world that Kuunavang or Glint portray. The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosityŚno concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

Ah, I haven't read that piece, thanks for the information. Still that gives the same conclusion; No human has ever seen these creatures flying/walking around, that was way before their existence.

mocax
30-09-2007, 09:49
The old dragons and the gods are probably opposite aspects of each other in a sense. The former are the chaotic while the gods govern the lawful.
Both sides could have their good and evil characters, the dragons lean toward the crazy, maniacal way and the gods (be they good or evil) prefer order, methodical path to achieving their goals.
Well, I look at Lyssa's as sort of structured chaos :tongue:

Dragons could be loners, destroying anything that stray into their domain, even other dragons. They're as powerful as the gods (or more so), yet primal, pure and totally unpredictable, and most likely the reasons for their failure to dominate Tyria.

liquid ice VI
30-09-2007, 13:04
If Rotscale is a proper dragon then the rest should be prtty weak. Cause he aint that special

Quintus Antonius
30-09-2007, 16:01
He isn't a proper dragon, he isn't even close. Rotscale is a Wyvern, or a Cockatrice, depending on who you ask, not even a true small dragon like Glint or Kuunavang.

Santax
30-09-2007, 16:52
He isn't a proper dragon, he isn't even close. Rotscale is a Wyvern, or a Cockatrice, depending on who you ask, not even a true small dragon like Glint or Kuunavang.
I used to think he was a Wyvern, but he could be a dragon like Glint:



Some have considered Rotscale a wyvern or lesser dragon. But if you look at it closer you'd see it's more like Glint. Look at it's "tail" and you'd notice that it actually looks like its spine has been severed just above it's back legs. Put back on the legs and a proper tail and it would be a dragon in the true sense. The dragon in Drakkar lake appears more like a sea serpent then anything else. It has flippers instead of legs and no wings.
You are correct. Rotscale is a dragon cut in half. It's moving on it's front legs.
I always assumed that it was a rotting dragon carcass, and during the rotting the rear half simply fell off. So it used to be a complete dragon on 4 legs.

http://www2.hku.nl/~rob3/3dbonedragon.jpg


Ah, I haven't read that piece, thanks for the information. Still that gives the same conclusion; No human has ever seen these creatures flying/walking around, that was way before their existence.
It gets better. Let's take a look at the history of Tyria (http://eu.guildwars.com/gameplay/tyria/history_of_tyria/) and the timeline (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline).

Firstly, the opening paragraph of The History of Tyria:

It was almost three thousand years ago that a race of serpents stepped out of the Rift onto the soil of Tyria. Unlike ordinary serpents, these moved upright, used language, and adhered to an elaborate culture. They had been summoned by the old gods, brought to this world to be the custodians. Their task: shepherd the other creatures of the land through this time of transition, while the gods continued to create the world around them.
The timeline tells us that the Forgotten arrived in 1769 BE. This would imply that the gods started work around that time. However, the timeline says that the Giganticus Lupicus were last spotted as late as 10,000 BE, and The Movement of the World tells us that the great dragons are older still. What does this mean for Tyria? Well, it would imply one of two things:
Tyria before the gods was blank, bleak, devoid of anything except dirt, dragons and the Giganticus Lupicus. I'd say this is fairly unlikely. They would require sustenance, for a start. Not to mention the fact that nothing comes from nothing - something would have had to create them.
The old gods are not the first owners of Tyria. We know they aren't the first gods, and we know there are creatures on Tyria that can rival their power right now. It's definitely possible.

Jair of the Forest
30-09-2007, 19:54
I used to think he was a Wyvern, but he could be a dragon like Glint:




It gets better. Let's take a look at the history of Tyria (http://eu.guildwars.com/gameplay/tyria/history_of_tyria/) and the timeline (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline).

Firstly, the opening paragraph of The History of Tyria:

The timeline tells us that the Forgotten arrived in 1769 BE. This would imply that the gods started work around that time. However, the timeline says that the Giganticus Lupicus were last spotted as late as 10,000 BE, and The Movement of the World tells us that the great dragons are older still. What does this mean for Tyria? Well, it would imply one of two things:
Tyria before the gods was blank, bleak, devoid of anything except dirt, dragons and the Giganticus Lupicus. I'd say this is fairly unlikely. They would require sustenance, for a start. Not to mention the fact that nothing comes from nothing - something would have had to create them.
The old gods are not the first owners of Tyria. We know they aren't the first gods, and we know there are creatures on Tyria that can rival their power right now. It's definitely possible.

Somehow I don't think you are right. The Forgotten were the servants of the God of Secrets..which have been told of that Abbadon wasn't the first..so I think that the Gods actually fought the Dragons, send them to bed and than started to rule/guide the world.

Gmr Leon
30-09-2007, 22:26
Somehow I don't think you are right. The Forgotten were the servants of the God of Secrets..which have been told of that Abbadon wasn't the first..so I think that the Gods actually fought the Dragons, send them to bed and than started to rule/guide the world.

Hold on, what? Forgotten, servants of the God of Secrets, which have been told of that Abbadon wasn't the first? That sentence isn't very..coherent.

We are told by the Apostate, a Margonite, that Abaddon wasn't the first God of Secrets. The Forgotten were the servants of the Five Gods, or six, before Abaddon corrupted himself/became corrupted.

Gmr Leon
30-09-2007, 23:46
Apologies for the double post, but I just noticed something interesting in the Guild Wars: Prophecies cinematic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc0x4dlrfyE

Check it out at exactly 00:27 seconds, that creature has what looks to be the Scepter of Orr. Not only that, but the landscape looks rather corrupted AND an Undead Dragon is coming out of the ruins of that..palace or castle.

I don't know if it's just a coincidence but I thought it might be worthy to note.

aptaleonII
01-10-2007, 00:00
Ah, yes- it has not been considered much here before that perhaps Rotscale, and the other Bone Dragons, are simply half dragon-carcasses, rather than Cockatrices or Wyverns.

Смерть
01-10-2007, 20:37
Apologies for the double post, but I just noticed something interesting in the Guild Wars: Prophecies cinematic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc0x4dlrfyE

Check it out at exactly 00:27 seconds, that creature has what looks to be the Scepter of Orr. Not only that, but the landscape looks rather corrupted AND an Undead Dragon is coming out of the ruins of that..palace or castle.

I don't know if it's just a coincidence but I thought it might be worthy to note.

Interesting, maybe part of an old concept Anet is bringing back with the GW2 storyline?

The PCgamer article says

Risen from the ocean by the will of a powerful undead dragon, Orr no longer stands under human control. The beings roaming those lands are twisted, perverted remnants of Orr's once-magnificent culture. Drowned by magic and then raised into service by the will of a monster so terrible there are only whispers of its nature*, they now serve a dragon more horrible and more powerful than any other being in Tyria.

And Devonna (I presume) in that trailer says
I know not the name of this evil.

On that dragon though (and the monster for that matter), they are so small. Dunno, maybe Anet can feed them sugar-coated steroids for breakfast before GW2 comes out.

*bolded by me

_____________________________

But then again, since that was done for Prophecies, maybe both the dragon and the monster were early concepts for the Lich and Rotscale.

Ranger Nietzsche
02-10-2007, 01:00
of course Devona is also Dual-wielding in that one.

Karn the Betrayer
02-10-2007, 09:21
you know that large thing at the end of EoTN is that counted as a dragon? well it sorta has a dragon's head... and roars like one too

Rob Van Der Sloot
02-10-2007, 11:45
you know that large thing at the end of EoTN is that counted as a dragon? well it sorta has a dragon's head... and roars like one too

Yes, that IS one of the dragons we're talking about. We assume it's called Primordus. Unless you mean the Great Destroyer himself, who is obviously not a dragon.


Apologies for the double post, but I just noticed something interesting in the Guild Wars: Prophecies cinematic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc0x4dlrfyE

Check it out at exactly 00:27 seconds, that creature has what looks to be the Scepter of Orr. Not only that, but the landscape looks rather corrupted AND an Undead Dragon is coming out of the ruins of that..palace or castle.

I don't know if it's just a coincidence but I thought it might be worthy to note.

I always assumed that was an early concept for Rotscale, but we sure have to take it into consideration. The castle is unlike anything we've seen in Guildwars... so perhaps it's supposed to be Orr?

Evidence to the contrary is also in the video by the way:

-The undead dragon sounds exactly like a bonedragon. (I have the same soundeffect on my harddisk for comparison)

-Devona mentions a threat from the west. Devona is from Ascalon, so if it was Orr, the threat should be from the south.

-The creature in the video looks like an early concept for the Lich, judging by it's large horns and the scepter.

Quintus Antonius
02-10-2007, 14:41
I really doubt that the pre-Prophecies beta rendered cinema has anything to do with GW2. First of all, everyone in that video would be dead by GW2, and as Rob pointed out, there are logical inconsistancies. Maybe they looked back and saw something in there they didn't get to do and said "hey neat", but I find it unlikely that the movie foreshadows GW2.

rex silverbane
02-10-2007, 16:56
so, the dragon at the end of gwen is primordius the elder dragon of earth. primordius can create living things out of stone and earth as seen in the case of the destroyers. we also know by gw2 he had amassed another armie of stone creations after the destroyers failure. pc gamer mentions a drgon of the depths that stops the asura from going back underground, i believe he and primordius are one and the same.

the dragon in the charr homelands is grothmar and according to pcgamer is the same dragon that got up and flew south into the north crystal desert, this dragon supposedly corrupted all in his path. the eldar dragon of corruption? maybe. BUT the concept art calls this dragon the water dragon. the water dragon, as we have been told by pc gamer, rose from the depths of the clashing seas and turned the sea into many horrible tenacled forms. so grothmar CANT be the water dragon. can he?

then we have drakkar. according to pc gamer the dragon of ICE had overrun gunnars hold by gw2. drakker is incased in ice realtivly close to gunnars hold. this same dragon corrupted jora and her brother, turning her brother into the nornbear and stopping jora from shapeshifting until the curse is lifted.

these are the 3 NAMED dragons but we know theres at least 2 more; the water dragon whom i have mentioned already and the undead dragon of orr. the dragon orr interests me particularly, to raise that number of undead must require an imense amount of power. we know that it was only with the septer of orr AND abbadons power that the lich managed to create a large number, pc gamer implies that the dragon of orr had even more undead than this. so this dragon is more powerful than abbadon? or does he have the septer of orr as well? thats my thoughts on the matter
sept

Troal
02-10-2007, 19:29
Apologies for the double post, but I just noticed something interesting in the Guild Wars: Prophecies cinematic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc0x4dlrfyE

Check it out at exactly 00:27 seconds, that creature has what looks to be the Scepter of Orr. Not only that, but the landscape looks rather corrupted AND an Undead Dragon is coming out of the ruins of that..palace or castle.

I don't know if it's just a coincidence but I thought it might be worthy to note.

Interesting... As far as I can tell, that creature appears to be the thing Devona fights later in the movie - something I've always identified as an executioner. I don't know what a warrior-type undead is doing with the Scepter of Orr, but it's possible that the Lich hadn't been conceived for the story yet. And as the undead in this trailer appear to have been originally intended as the penultimate villain of GW, I'm guessing the Mursaat hadn't been invented yet either.

I'm pretty sure this is a relic of an unfinalized GW1 storyline, and has nothing to do with GW2. Although, now that I think about it, I remember reading in the PC Gamer article that in GW2 the undead control the Ring of Fire. Hmmm.....

rex silverbane
02-10-2007, 19:46
Although, now that I think about it, I remember reading in the PC Gamer article that in GW2 the undead control the Ring of Fire. Hmmm.....

thats only becuase there were alot of corsair ships in the ring of fire and when orr rose they all capsised, giving the draong of orr instant undead and ship to patrol and stop trade with cantha

SurviverX
02-10-2007, 19:50
OP didn't mention

9) The dragon underneath Orr, an undead dragon mentioned in PCgamer. I assume it is sleeping inside Shards of Orr right now.

rex silverbane
02-10-2007, 20:11
I assume it is sleeping inside Shards of Orr right now.

there is a murel with a picture of a dragons head in the shards of orr, ill try to dig up a screenshot for you

Quintus Antonius
02-10-2007, 21:13
OP didn't mention

9) The dragon underneath Orr, an undead dragon mentioned in PCgamer. I assume it is sleeping inside Shards of Orr right now.

PCGamer explicitedly states it is sleeping under the ruins of Arah.

SurviverX
02-10-2007, 23:25
PCGamer explicitedly states it is sleeping under the ruins of Arah.

And...Arah is inside Orr. Shards of Orr is the dungeon that runs underneath the sea where Orr once stood.

It's just Shards of Orr is so hard, not much people go there just to explore the lore.

Karn the Betrayer
02-10-2007, 23:52
have you noticed that the narrator said 'boy' yet shes a girl? lol either that or i misheard or something that sounded like it

Zesr Swiftblade
03-10-2007, 00:08
just a thought... i dunno if anyone else has brought this up or not but the frozen dragon (drakkar i think some people are calling it?) seems to have his own "general" - Myish lady of the lake

The only reason i say this is that on the banner in sifhalla that is about Myish says that she can control those elements around her as well as the creatures around her composed of the elements in much the same way that the great destroyer can control the other destroyers.

so?

Myish::Drakkar
Great Destroyer:: Primordius (sp?)

Karn the Betrayer
03-10-2007, 00:40
Imo the end boss simply cannot be the GD, even abaddon put up a better fight than that one... I thing the 'GD' was simply like what Varesh was to Abaddon

Quintus Antonius
03-10-2007, 01:07
just a thought... i dunno if anyone else has brought this up or not but the frozen dragon (drakkar i think some people are calling it?) seems to have his own "general" - Myish lady of the lake

The only reason i say this is that on the banner in sifhalla that is about Myish says that she can control those elements around her as well as the creatures around her composed of the elements in much the same way that the great destroyer can control the other destroyers.

so?

Myish::Drakkar
Great Destroyer:: Primordius (sp?)

Actually doesn't the quest to take her out or something say that the djinn are attracted to the lake due to the large amounts of magic?

PwnyRide
03-10-2007, 07:23
As was said eariler, there is no proof for sure that what we fought in the Destroyer Spawn pool was THE Great Destroyer. Sure it says it under the enemy when you target it, but the heroes may have had the impression that this thing was TGD.

And we know heroes have been wrong before (Vizier and the titans anyone?).

It would make more sense that one of the dragons, morelikely Primordius is the great destroyer, because remember by the end of EoTN, the dwarves are changed, but they still exist. They are stone, and if Primordius has control over stone. Whoops, looks like they screwed up big time!

And remember, the relationshop between TGD and The Great Dwarf is extremely similar to Balthazar and Menzies. Menzies had powers to rival a god, wouldnt a dragon fit that description a little better?

Karn the Betrayer
03-10-2007, 07:24
maybe Myish was the one that corrupted Jora's brother's mind not Drakkar


As was said eariler, there is no proof for sure that what we fought in the Destroyer Spawn pool was THE Great Destroyer. Sure it says it under the enemy when you target it, but the heroes may have had the impression that this thing was TGD.

And we know heroes have been wrong before (Vizier and the titans anyone?).


There was a debate in my aliance about that I always said that large thing was the GD and not that endboss, cause if we can beat it the Great Dwarf could of easily vanquished it imo the Great Dwarf 'sealed' that huge one and I'm presuming the Great Dwarf being Balthazar

liamSlayer
03-10-2007, 08:07
balthazar isnt a dwarf <.<

SurviverX
03-10-2007, 08:18
There are giant bones inside Underworld too. Dragon? Giganticus Lupicus?

Rob Van Der Sloot
03-10-2007, 08:56
There was a debate in my aliance about that I always said that large thing was the GD and not that endboss, cause if we can beat it the Great Dwarf could of easily vanquished it imo the Great Dwarf 'sealed' that huge one and I'm presuming the Great Dwarf being Balthazar

We already have confirmation from one of the devs that we DID fight the Great Destroyer. The whole intentions has always been to make it seem like it wasn't the greatest threat after all. The dragons are a much bigger threat.

Quintus Antonius
03-10-2007, 17:00
There are giant bones inside Underworld too. Dragon? Giganticus Lupicus?

Well, the UW is a place of death. So I'm not surprised to see bones there.

rex silverbane
03-10-2007, 20:23
drakkar deffinatly is the big magic precense in drakkars lake, jora and her brother were corrupted by something under the lake and the djinn are just attracted to magic. does anyone know any possible locations for the dragon of orr? if not may i suggest an expidition their to attempt to find it

Quintus Antonius
03-10-2007, 21:07
I'd go ahead and guess Orr.

SurviverX
03-10-2007, 21:17
drakkar deffinatly is the big magic precense in drakkars lake, jora and her brother were corrupted by something under the lake and the djinn are just attracted to magic. does anyone know any possible locations for the dragon of orr? if not may i suggest an expidition their to attempt to find it

Shards of Orr is Orr. If you want to find any hint of the Orr dragon, explore Shards of Orr.

rex silverbane
04-10-2007, 07:37
well there already is proof of the dragon of orr because of the dragon murel in the shards of orr, i'll explore it fully tonight

SurviverX
04-10-2007, 09:45
well there already is proof of the dragon of orr because of the dragon murel in the shards of orr, i'll explore it fully tonight

Where is the mural? I like to go see it myself.

Dalliance Jade
04-10-2007, 12:06
While I don't have the magazine myself, I think someone mentioned that the Magazine mentioned that Glint was actually one of the younger Dragons. That could explain the difference in size. Though that's actually contradictory to the statement that Glint was the first creature ever made by the Gods.


The apparent contradiction is based on the assumption that Gods came before Dragons (and before everything else, for that matter). That may not have been the case in Tyria.

Skyy High
04-10-2007, 18:21
As was said eariler, there is no proof for sure that what we fought in the Destroyer Spawn pool was THE Great Destroyer. Sure it says it under the enemy when you target it, but the heroes may have had the impression that this thing was TGD.

And we know heroes have been wrong before (Vizier and the titans anyone?).

It would make more sense that one of the dragons, morelikely Primordius is the great destroyer, because remember by the end of EoTN, the dwarves are changed, but they still exist. They are stone, and if Primordius has control over stone. Whoops, looks like they screwed up big time!

And remember, the relationshop between TGD and The Great Dwarf is extremely similar to Balthazar and Menzies. Menzies had powers to rival a god, wouldnt a dragon fit that description a little better?
ANet confirmed that it was THE Great Destroyer.

rex silverbane
04-10-2007, 18:44
the current gods were not the first ones and probably remade the world to what they would prefer. and so the dragons can predate them

keroshinigami
05-10-2007, 05:41
ANet confirmed that it was THE Great Destroyer.

i believe it was stated the great destroyer we killed was a great general of Primordius.

Rob Van Der Sloot
05-10-2007, 08:19
Yep he was. Which seemed to imply that Primordus has multiple generals. Could there be more powerful creatures like the Great Destroyer that serve this ancient dragon?

PwnyRide
05-10-2007, 12:49
balthazar isnt a dwarf <.<

Nobody ever said that Balthazar was a dwarf, but do you not think that a 'great' dwarf could indeed be just a large humanoid? Large things are often considered 'great' in these cases. And it may not be the case with size, but the fact that nobody in the world has ant idea what ANY of the old gods truly look like (bar Abaddon, but even he was in a weakened form/state.) adds to the connundrum. Great could also just mean powerful, as is the case with these sorts of things.

You must also take into consideration that each race sees the gods differently and worships them in different ways. In fact the Asurans are non believers.

Skyy High, i would like to see visual proof that a-net has confirmed that what we ripped apart was 'the' Great Destoryer. Id like to see any visual proof that a-net has confirmed anything lore-wise actually, they are often cryptic at the best of times.

Gmr Leon
06-10-2007, 00:05
Nobody ever said that Balthazar was a dwarf, but do you not think that a 'great' dwarf could indeed be just a large humanoid? Large things are often considered 'great' in these cases. And it may not be the case with size, but the fact that nobody in the world has ant idea what ANY of the old gods truly look like (bar Abaddon, but even he was in a weakened form/state.) adds to the connundrum. Great could also just mean powerful, as is the case with these sorts of things.

You must also take into consideration that each race sees the gods differently and worships them in different ways. In fact the Asurans are non believers.

Skyy High, i would like to see visual proof that a-net has confirmed that what we ripped apart was 'the' Great Destoryer. Id like to see any visual proof that a-net has confirmed anything lore-wise actually, they are often cryptic at the best of times.


I am pretty sure that we said that you would see the beginnings of the Sylvari, which you do as Santax has illustrated, not them being literally "born". You do fight the Great Destroyer but the idea is that it is just the least of your worries, which I think we communicated fairly well. This is a foreshadowing of what is to come in GW2. I am sorry you were disappointed, but I don't really know what else to say about that. =/

And there you have it.

Quintus Antonius
06-10-2007, 00:41
Since Leon didn't clarify, that is from Linsey Murdock's talk page on her userpage from the Official Guild Wars Wiki.

mocax
07-10-2007, 06:46
just as the Great Dwarf is the collective of souped-up dwarves, The Great Destroyer is the whole breed of all destroyers with that big turtle as the brain.

Santax
18-10-2007, 22:30
New concepts of the other dragons!

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220645&stc=1&d=1192728067
undeaddragon.jpg

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220652&stc=1&d=1192728279
defeateddragon.jpg
Might be the water dragon, but it greatly differs from existing water dragon artwork.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220653&stc=1&d=1192728300
dragonalley.jpg
Not sure what to make of this one.

Images from http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108591

SurviverX
18-10-2007, 23:05
New concepts of the other dragons!

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220645&stc=1&d=1192728067
undeaddragon.jpg

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220652&stc=1&d=1192728279
defeateddragon.jpg
Might be the water dragon, but it greatly differs from existing water dragon artwork.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220653&stc=1&d=1192728300
dragonalley.jpg
Not sure what to make of this one.

Images from http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108591

Nice find.

1. Why is that undead dragon chained?
2. The second one is an earth dragon. Other than the rock body, but also the crystalline spine.

Rob Van Der Sloot
19-10-2007, 01:13
Well, there are plenty of undead that are also chained. (Chained Clerics for example) If we assume these undead to be Orian, then it's no surprise that the Dragon that rules it is chained aswell. It seems he's not really bothered by the chains. As for the men standing at his feet, those are merely there to show it's scale I think. I don't think they represent a specific people.

You know, when I saw that picture I thought to myself: If the Great Destroyer would have looked anything like that, then I wouldn't have been disappointed. Look at those fearsome teeth, what a monster.



The rocky dragon looks more like it might be located somewhere in the Crystal Desert. The artwork title says "Defeated Dragon". I wonder what defeated it... the Gods?

Quintus Antonius
19-10-2007, 01:21
It's important to remember that concept art needn't have a cooresponding feature in-game. For instance, the defeated dragon concept art was around before Nightfall, and bears a strong resemblence to the water dragon in Charr territory.

False Visage
19-10-2007, 02:00
Well it is concept art, if the concept isn't liked or decided it isn't appropriate in the final game design then it remains a concept. I think most if not all of those images have been around for a while and I would imagine that the dragons would be retouched and be relooked at before production occurs.

kburt
19-10-2007, 02:05
The first dragon actually looks too small with the person for comparison.

Off topic: What talented artists!!!! I looked through and wondered how they felt about their Aztec themed work being discarded for GW:EN? Though I noticed a few of the architectural themes did get carrried over.:sunny:

kburt
19-10-2007, 02:11
It's important to remember that concept art needn't have a cooresponding feature in-game. For instance, the defeated dragon concept art was around before Nightfall, and bears a strong resemblence to the water dragon in Charr territory.

Actually the second picture in post #26 (of the final link given above) is the concept art for the dragon in Charr territory. Compare the ships sailing in the backgraound for size.......:shocked:

Jair of the Forest
20-10-2007, 13:57
Actually the second picture in post #26 (of the final link given above) is the concept art for the dragon in Charr territory. Compare the ships sailing in the backgraound for size.......:shocked:

That pic makes you think that the Water Dragon is waaaay bigger than the Dragon we actually see in game....

ArieDeWizard
20-10-2007, 17:34
Imo the end boss simply cannot be the GD, even abaddon put up a better fight than that one... I thing the 'GD' was simply like what Varesh was to Abaddon

There are a lot of people who say that the 'Great Destroyer' is too weak compared to some of the other end-bosses. While he might not be huge and doesn't have any 'insta-party-wipe' skills, he has enormous power. His mind directly controls all of the destroyers. This means that his single mind can control an army of evil beings bigger than any ever seen in Tyria. I would call this ability pretty powerful; rather than having to trust upon the loyalty of his servants like Abaddon or the Lich, the GD has an army of literally mindless drones that will not hesitate to sacrifice themselves for the 'greater good' (or greater evil in this case). Compare this to Abaddon, who had a 'lower general' (Morghan) rebel against his chosen commander (Varesh) which dealt a great blow to his plans.

The thing that ultimately led to the Great Destroyer's demise is that the players figured out that the Great Destroyer's power lies only in its army, and that on his own, he wouldn't really be that hard to defeat. So, instead of joining the dwarves in a never-ending fight against the mindless and limitless drones, we confront the GD in his hideout. He would be pretty safe there, because we wouldn't have even looked there if it wasn't for a certain vision from a certain scrying pool in the Hall of Monuments.

Karn the Betrayer
20-10-2007, 21:02
that first one reminds me of a mangy dog with wings... for some reason also it reminds me of donkey-dragons from shrek 3 lol

rex silverbane
21-10-2007, 20:53
i dont think any of those are much use, the last 2 are just loading screens that didnt make it and the first is a concept art for undead dragons like rotscale

Jair of the Forest
22-10-2007, 09:16
i dont think any of those are much use, the last 2 are just loading screens that didnt make it and the first is a concept art for undead dragons like rotscale

Its appearance is not even close to Rotscale's, or any other Bone Dragon. Besides, why would Rotscale/Bone Dragons even be noticed in the EotN concept art?

EDIT: Also in the picture you see humans, which seem pretty big in comparison to the "Dragon". This makes me think this thing is either not a Dragon or way smaller than the Dragon's we've seen in game. However this is still concept art so it might just be an alternative version of the Dragon of Orr.

rex silverbane
22-10-2007, 11:04
Its appearance is not even close to Rotscale's, or any other Bone Dragon. Besides, why would Rotscale/Bone Dragons even be noticed in the EotN concept art?

EDIT: Also in the picture you see humans, which seem pretty big in comparison to the "Dragon".

oh it was in the eotn concept art, i realy need to ask questions THEN shoot. maybe it is conept for the GD its roughly the right size. or maybe it is the undead dragon. who knows

Quintus Antonius
22-10-2007, 14:22
Its appearance is not even close to Rotscale's, or any other Bone Dragon. Besides, why would Rotscale/Bone Dragons even be noticed in the EotN concept art?

EDIT: Also in the picture you see humans, which seem pretty big in comparison to the "Dragon". This makes me think this thing is either not a Dragon or way smaller than the Dragon's we've seen in game. However this is still concept art so it might just be an alternative version of the Dragon of Orr.

To me, it looks almost like a Hellhound.

rex silverbane
22-10-2007, 16:41
To me, it looks almost like a Hellhound.

just with wings, chains and organs

Quintus Antonius
22-10-2007, 18:14
Yes, but the basic shape. And Hellhounds have chains and organs.

SurviverX
22-10-2007, 18:22
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6061/undeaddragonbq7.jpg

These 2 looks very similar. Notice the chain on both of them?

rex silverbane
22-10-2007, 19:16
they are similar indeed. the spikes, back spines and chains are all in the same areas. the chains reinforce my idea that the dragons were trapped there by something or someone rather than just hid there to sleep

Divinity Archer
22-10-2007, 19:30
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6061/undeaddragonbq7.jpg

These 2 looks very similar. Notice the chain on both of them?

I don't think they look similar at all. Primordus has more and bigger spikes in his neck (a bit like Glint) and has way more nose then the guy/girl above him.

Harjubal od Uo
22-10-2007, 19:43
I don't believe that Primordus is chained actually; those look more like tentacles or insectoid legs or, perhaps, spindly bones from what's left of wings.

rex silverbane
22-10-2007, 19:45
I don't think they look similar at all. Primordus has more and bigger spikes in his neck (a bit like Glint) and has way more nose then the guy/girl above him.

grothmar, drakkar and primordus all look very different from eachother dont they? a guy from china will look different from a guy from new zealand wont they? even two brothers will look different. the point is nothign is exactly the same but they normaly have a few features that are similar (chains, spikes, spines etc).

mocax
25-10-2007, 15:29
So the "dragons" are humongous scary powerful beings, but they called them dragons due to the limited Tyrian vocabulary.

rex silverbane
25-10-2007, 15:42
no they call them dragons because they are dragons

SurviverX
25-10-2007, 18:28
Or do you rather call them Gondras?

Dragina
27-10-2007, 23:02
I decided to look at the rest of the site and found these pics,
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2015/nian1600pixfc0.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nian1600pixfc0.jpg)
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7838/attachmentphpjw5.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=attachmentphpjw5.jpg)
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4876/gwxpostuno023px9.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gwxpostuno023px9.jpg)

I realize this is concept art but I thought they could spark some new ideas?

Quintus Antonius
28-10-2007, 02:17
The first picture looks like that thing from the Dragon Festival two years ago, I forget what they are called. The second looks like a close up on a raptor. And the last one definitely is that dragon flying over the land corrupting everything below it.

Indigo Montari
28-10-2007, 02:39
Just something I was wondering/thinking about- Of the living dragons that can be deemed intelligent that are around now in GW, we all know about Glint, and Kunnavang, however we forget there is one more; Shinny ........yes the young dragon that now calls the hidden city home. I wonder if any of them will make an appearance in GW2?

Quintus Antonius
28-10-2007, 02:15
Wasn't that just a Salt-Spray Dragon hatchling?

lamlamlam
28-10-2007, 14:19
I was wondering if there are some connections between scepter of Orr and the Dragon of Orr. I am not sure have anyone conclude over where the scepter came from, but could it possibly be some sort of remain from the Dragon of Orr?
The scepter has the power over undeads and the titans, if undeads and titans are tied to the higher Dragons then wouldn't it make sense if a relic from one of the Dragons can allow a powerful mage to contol them?
I also remembered Livia mentioning something of returning to Arah while she appeared to had obtained the scepter at the end of GW:EN, could that triggered something because the Dragon and scepter are related?

Karuro
28-10-2007, 14:33
Wasn't that just a Salt-Spray Dragon hatchling?
Kuunavang is also a Saltspray dragon. Iirc, there's alos a luxon quest which shows yet another talking saltspray dragon.

Therefor, I think Saltspray dragons (or any other dragon) are at least capable of human speech.

Quintus Antonius
28-10-2007, 15:26
That's not what I'm debating, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying if it is really so strange to see a baby saltspray, they seem to be common, and certainly not in a draconic group of their own.

rex silverbane
28-10-2007, 16:15
[QUOTE=Quintus Antonius;5161763]The first picture looks like that thing from the Dragon Festival two years ago, I forget what they are called. The second looks like a close up on a raptor. And the last one definitely is that dragon flying over the land corrupting everything below [QUOTE]

the ones your thinking of are called nian but to me it looks more like one of the temple guardians. the third one to me looks more like an asian dragon. maybe conept art for kuuvang.

Feannag
28-10-2007, 18:48
The first one is the Nian from the Canthan New Year Festival. The second does look like a raptor. The third looks like a dragon, but I'm not sure it's corrupting the land, I see people down there watching it.

rex silverbane
28-10-2007, 19:50
The third looks like a dragon, but I'm not sure it's corrupting the land, I see people down there watching it.

my point exactly

aptaleonII
28-10-2007, 22:28
You people have found this already, haven't you?

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4836/icedragonofthepwngi2.jpg

Jair of the Forest
29-10-2007, 06:27
You people have found this already, haven't you?

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4836/icedragonofthepwngi2.jpg

Yea, they did but it was in the Maguuma Dragon thread. However this picture is much better..

I don't think its a Dragon however..I thought it was a bit too small compared to the others.

kburt
29-10-2007, 13:22
Yea, they did but it was in the Maguuma Dragon thread. However this picture is much better..

I don't think its a Dragon however..I thought it was a bit too small compared to the others.

I had seen this, but I thought it was a statue of the Forgotten (snake body,arms, hands, lizard head)???

OT: Now this make me wonder if the Forgotten were the ones who built the structures like the EotN?

Jair of the Forest
29-10-2007, 15:45
I had seen this, but I thought it was a statue of the Forgotten (snake body,arms, hands, lizard head)???

OT: Now this make me wonder if the Forgotten were the ones who built the structures like the EotN?

Well there has been some investigation about the EotN, but that is a bit off topic, here are the threads if you're interested:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465200

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464773

NameAlreadyInUse
20-11-2007, 12:59
Yea, they did but it was in the Maguuma Dragon thread. However this picture is much better..

I don't think its a Dragon however..I thought it was a bit too small compared to the others.

I agree this one looks small, but the tail could well extend right down the column it's sitting on and even into the bedrock. The crystals around the column make it dificult to tell where the body of this thing ends.

And, is size really a good indicator of the power or age of these dragons (not saying this thing is a dragon, or even a representation of one for sure)? Primordus didn't look all that much larger than Glint, really. The Drakar lake dragon appears to be much larger (granted, refractive properties of water can alter percieved size), and all of them would seem to be dwarfed by the enourmous creature sleeping in the Charr homelands. Looking at just the section of that thing's back which is exposed it seems like the entire creature would be several times larger than any other dragon we have seen yet, at least.

Does this make one older or more powerful than another? I don't think there's really any way to say for sure. So who knows, maybe there are some smaller scale ancient dragons out there.

Skyy High
20-11-2007, 14:07
Glint is not even close to Primordius in size. Look at the picture in SurvivorX's post on page 15; that shows Primordius, with the Great Destroyer for scale. The Great Destroyer is roughly the size of Glint, and it's dwarfed by Primordius.

Van Tomiko
21-11-2007, 13:11
look at this pattern ...

Lich = current enemy
Shiro = enemy from the past
Abaddon = ancient god
Great Destroyer = ancient enemy
Dragons = more ancient from all above

My theory would be, in the end, we must fight the True Creator to end all of misery caused by him. GW world will be sucked into the Black Hole of nothingness. Our character and every existance including the gods will be sucked into it as well and put an end to the GW world. In other words, GW world doesnt exist anymore.

Feannag
21-11-2007, 16:26
And the last words heard will be "Maybe killing him wasn't such a good idea after all..."

aptaleonII
21-11-2007, 21:44
Last words will be "He was the BAD GUY!? not again!", just like before we let the Titans out for the 'good and pure and not-at-all-evil' Vizier Khilbron.

Gmr Leon
21-11-2007, 22:00
Personally, I like Van Tomiko's idea. It would be completely new and unique for an online game.

Honestly though, let's try to keep on-topic and avoid coming up with various things the enemy or our heroes could say or be thinking.

raspberry jam
23-11-2007, 18:57
Personally, I like Van Tomiko's idea. It would be completely new and unique for an online game.As some might recall, in Doom II, the final level had a secret room containing the head of John Romero, one of the developers at id Software. If you "kill" the head, you'd win the game. So fighting the True Creator (Jeff Strain maybe? haha) wouldn't be a new idea after all :wink:

Gmr Leon
23-11-2007, 19:09
The idea I was referring to as original was the killing of our characters by killing the creator.

Troal
24-11-2007, 01:12
The idea I was referring to as original was the killing of our characters by killing the creator.

Frankly, with the entire world out to kill us I wouldn't be completely surprised if the Creator turned out to be an enemy. :tongue: Everything attacks us! You'd think some of them would be more sympathetic to our 'save the world' cause.

The possibility also remains open that the dragons we will be fighting in GW2 were actually the creators of Tyria.

kerinad
04-12-2007, 12:37
Just getting back to a couple of theories about the dragons here;

We so far know that there are we've got Primordus, the old dragon that breathes life into things that wakes up when we beat his general, the "Great" Destroyer into the dust. Then we've got Drakkar, theoretically the giant creature in Drakkar Lake that'll wake up and chase the Norn southwards into the territories of the extinct dwarves and the now free Dredge. Grothmar, the massive beastie with it's back sticking out of the island in between Grothmar Wardowns and Dalada Uplands which will, in theory be the dragon to fly over the land corrupting it with it's foul breath.

We've got the Undead Dragon that was asleep underneath Arah that makes the remnants of the Orrian Peninsula resurface when she wakes up and raises an undead fleet of ships that patrol between Orr and the Ring of Fire Islands. Then we may well have a dragon in the desert but this is seemingly unlikely as the main threat in the desert seems to be Palawa Joko on a come back tour. There is one other dragon though, that being the dragon in the deep see that corrupts water with it's breath causing it to rise up as something reminiscent of oozes from what I can tell that will cause havok throughout the water ways of Tyria.

So all in all a nasty bunch of reptilian scum. Our allies amongst the dragons, are Kuunavang, potentially just an ancient and particularly well educated salt spray dragon, and Glint, who's hidden in a single grain of sand somewhere in the Crystal desert.

Things look grim, there are three dragons that are relatively easy to confront, Primordus as we already know where he is despite the fact he's got a massive army of renewable critters at his disposal, the Undead dragon on Orr, again we know where she is but there's a fairly massive Undead Fleet in between us and it, and then Drakkar, we know he's up north and he seems to have more fins or legs than wings so he probably won't be moving far from where he wakes up, he also seems to be one of the smaller dragons about the place so he's theoretically younger and easier to kill. However Drakkar is an odd case, he seems to be able to corrupt and change, the same way he did to Jora's brother, so sending an army of us to go beat it's massively wide head in may not be a good idea as half of us may turn round and start killing our closest guildmates.

One way or another GW2 is going to be interesting with antagonists like there methinks.

Mookle X
10-12-2007, 16:47
I think the problem is continuing to grow, I know that some people claim that there are dragons outside of Kaineng and Shing Jae, encased in stone. The link to what they look like is here

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lighthouse_Dragon

However, I've always thought these to be more of carving made by the naga then actual dragons. I could be wrong though. However, when the Zoo Crew and I were vanquishing Sunjiang District, I found this:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3558/gw097ny2.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw097ny2.jpg)

If this is indeed a dragon, with a city built around it, then we could possibly be looking at a reason Cantha becomes isolationist. Either that, or this dragon would indeed cause major damage after finally waking up.

Valrena
10-12-2007, 17:11
That looks more like an eye fashioned out of amber than a real eye.

Mookle X
10-12-2007, 17:31
True, but it is possible that is what happened when the dragon went to sleep, same with Primordius being encased in stone. I wonder if it's possible that the dragons were trapped in their current forms after they fell asleep, possibly by the gods themselves.

Skyy High
10-12-2007, 18:39
Kaineng City is filled with dragons; it's based on Asia remember? That's simple decoration, nothing more.

Mookle X
10-12-2007, 18:59
I thought of that, the only reason I brought it up was because I wondered why only it's head would be sticking out of the ground like that. It looked as if the city had built up around it.

Karuro
10-12-2007, 19:02
I think the canthan dragons are just stone. It is the DRAGON Empire after all, so some decorations about dragons would be logical. Even at the oddest places (And when you look at the Sunjiang Disctrict and stuff, you can already see everything is built on top of eachother).

Gmr Leon
10-12-2007, 21:05
I'm fairly certain that, like the so-called Lighthouse Dragon, it is simply another statue carved by human hands.

Harjubal od Uo
11-12-2007, 12:16
The curious thing about the Canthan dragons, though, is that they don't look like any other form of Canthan art. All the other depictions of Canthan dragons we have, such as those from the Canthan New Year, look very festive and abstract and quite Oriental in style. These dragons are not only so oddly placed as to seem to lose most of their aesthetic power as decorations, but they are also very western in appearance.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that they really are alive; not even the composition of the enemies in the area seems to give us any clue as to why they're there. Nevertheless, if they are statues, there's something different about them from any other artwork in Cantha, which would seem to speak to their importance in some way.

liamSlayer
11-12-2007, 13:27
Why would the canthans build around it anyway if it was a dragon?

o.0

rex silverbane
11-12-2007, 16:55
the so called canthan dragons are statues, in empirial china and feudal japan dragons were used in most buildings. the reason the dragons in festivals are festive is they are good luck dragons, the dragons we see on buildings are designed to scare away badluck, just like in real life.

Gmr Leon
11-12-2007, 22:19
Why would the canthans build around it anyway if it was a dragon?

o.0

Cantha's population is rapidly booming, where have you been lately? The Kaineng City area was the best location for them to move and to make space they need to build on top of other structures. Heck, Tahnnakai Temple is a perfect example, it's been there for centuries and yet now it's in a sewer due to the population increasing.


The curious thing about the Canthan dragons, though, is that they don't look like any other form of Canthan art. All the other depictions of Canthan dragons we have, such as those from the Canthan New Year, look very festive and abstract and quite Oriental in style. These dragons are not only so oddly placed as to seem to lose most of their aesthetic power as decorations, but they are also very western in appearance.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that they really are alive; not even the composition of the enemies in the area seems to give us any clue as to why they're there. Nevertheless, if they are statues, there's something different about them from any other artwork in Cantha, which would seem to speak to their importance in some way.

What exactly do you mean?

Most Asian dragons are depicted as being serpentine in appearance while European dragons are depicted as, usually, having four legs, horns, and a spear/arrow-pointed tail.

Harjubal od Uo
12-12-2007, 02:09
What exactly do you mean?

Most Asian dragons are depicted as being serpentine in appearance while European dragons are depicted as, usually, having four legs, horns, and a spear/arrow-pointed tail.

Perhaps it's just an aesthetic call on my part, but the cranial structures of the "buried" dragons look much more elongated, reptilian and western than the blunter, more feline look of oriental dragons to me.

Gmr Leon
12-12-2007, 02:23
I think it may be an aesthetic call on your part, but I understand what you're saying. It doesn't look precisely as most Asian depictions would have it look, but it still retains the theme in the form of the body.

Plus remember that, at least the statue head in Sunjiang District, was originally in the Underworld. Meaning that it wasn't designed with Asian themes in mind.

Harjubal od Uo
12-12-2007, 06:10
Plus remember that, at least the statue head in Sunjiang District, was originally in the Underworld. Meaning that it wasn't designed with Asian themes in mind.

I never knew that! Thank you for telling me, Gmr; that does change my perspective somewhat.

Karn the Betrayer
12-12-2007, 08:48
you know those light house dragon and the other one near kaineng centre could just be constructed by the canthans... far east people have an affinity with dragons you know

La Jaffa
02-01-2008, 13:36
The "cycle of their awakening," eh? So they've gone to sleep and woken up before? Could they, perhaps, have been the cause of the Giganticus Lupicus' extinction?

I'm tempted to revive our theory on Tyria's cycle of rebirth. Perhaps the natural force for rebirth we had originally identified as the Great Destroyer is actually these dragons.


it can be that the Giganticus Lupicus' Kild some of the dragons because there are giant bones in the Desert that are big enough te be a Dragon.

Bookah boy
17-01-2008, 16:38
it can be that the Giganticus Lupicus' Kild some of the dragons because there are giant bones in the Desert that are big enough te be a Dragon.

Keep in mind that they are something completely different, and likely they are the bones of large creatures that lived in the crystal desert.

Gmr Leon
17-01-2008, 21:53
Keep in mind that they are something completely different, and likely they are the bones of large creatures that lived in the crystal desert.

And that there's a theory suggesting the bones being from Giganticus Lupicus.

La Jaffa
18-01-2008, 19:47
But, In one of the mission where you need to get to 3 castle things with that crystals you will see a giant skelet head with the same size as Drakkar and it looks like it

Gmr Leon
18-01-2008, 23:06
But, In one of the mission where you need to get to 3 castle things with that crystals you will see a giant skelet head with the same size as Drakkar and it looks like it

Not really. Drakkar has these sort of mandibles going out of its face/head. Giganticus Lupicus have tusks that go from the upper skull, down a bit, then jut forward.

Skyy High
19-01-2008, 04:37
I really don't think those things on Drakkar's head are mandibles of any sort. Look at this picture:
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7511628

The dark, slightly wavy line below the snout (you can see the nostrils) is clearly the mouth. The mouth has a distinct end, and it's before, and slightly below, the start of the "mandibles". Conclusion: the protrusions are just horn-like structures, of which the dragon has many (you can scroll forward for a couple other nice pictures of Drakkar).

I forgot to mention, these pictures were taken with a texmod that slightly changed the texture of the lake, making it easier to see the creature in more detail than had previously been possible.

Gmr Leon
19-01-2008, 07:47
Yeah, mandible wasn't the right word to describe it, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

La Jaffa
19-01-2008, 10:09
But in the mission where you can cross a bridge, there you can go around it and there is a large head with the same ''Things'' On the cheeks and it has a snake like body going into the ground.

Gmr Leon
19-01-2008, 22:24
Same as in that they're protrusions from the skull? Yes, that I will agree with. Same in shape? Not in the least.

La Jaffa
20-01-2008, 10:14
Same as in that they're protrusions from the skull
I Didnt knew the word for it ;)

Skyy High
20-01-2008, 18:42
In the mission where you can cross a bridge? Clarification please.

Gmr Leon
20-01-2008, 19:33
In the mission where you can cross a bridge? Clarification please.

I'm pretty sure he/she's talking about the Elona Reach mission because early on he/she mentioned bringing crystals to three different "castles" and seeing the skulls during the mission.

La Jaffa
21-01-2008, 18:49
Im a he ;)
ya that one i meant .

Avoc
25-02-2008, 20:01
Not sure if this has been brought up in this topic, I did a quick search with no luck.

From the wiki:
"...one rises about the sunken holy city of Arah in the ruined kingdom of Orr, simultaneously raising the entire region from below the water level and creating an undead armada that severs the sea route between continent of Tyria and the Factions continent of Cantha;

When Arah resurfaces, the Corsair ships that used to take refuge in that archipelago are corrupted by the dragon to form a deadly fleet of black ships that seal off all trade routes between Cantha and the other continents. At the start of the Guild Wars 2 story, there has been no contact with mainland Canthans for a generation. "

http://dougbot.com/forum/GWXPostDos010.jpg
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108591&page=6

Scroll down halfway.

The chained ship also reminds me of the chained castle in Kryta.

La Jaffa
25-02-2008, 21:33
Wow Nice Find :o
Thats Coel !
Thas my new background

Nanashi
25-02-2008, 22:54
Yes but... that's just a ship anchored it would seem. The castle... well, floated.

Avoc
26-02-2008, 06:08
For some reason, it seems as if the ship is floating for me o.o

Skyy High
26-02-2008, 07:17
It just occurred to me: these dragons aren't nearly as dangerous, deadly, impervious, or indestructible as we're being led to believe. The lore says that the underwater dragon awakened a full generation ago...and yet humans, charr, norn, asura, and sylvari are thriving, or at least surviving. I had visions of all powerful beings that were bent on annihilating the entire world, but either they're not as powerful as we think, or they are not as focused on the destruction of the world as we are being led to believe. The world couldn't survive 5 dragons for a generation or more otherwise.

Avoc
26-02-2008, 09:43
I think their agenda is different all together. Perhaps they are getting ready to wage war against eachother?

La Jaffa
26-02-2008, 10:15
Or, they think they destroyed all of mankind and Humansish creatures
And they dont work together
when all 5 dragons go to divinety reach City thing, the city is destroyed
but one the humans could resist