PDA

View Full Version : Suggestion : get new players into ha.



grimwold
23-09-2007, 13:45
Its no secret that ha is in a poor state atm and is only set to get worse, even at previously busy times we have had times where we have beat two or three maps and gone straight to hoh. Sure its nice to win and get your name up and all that but we primarily play for the joy of the game, not for emotes and fame counts (my guild is [DOGS] btw, ha addicts for... way too long).

New players need to come or theres just no point, some nights we play the same teams three or four times within an hour or so.

I think a newbie (note i said newbie, not NOOBS!!! - i dont agree with that derogatory term) friendly mini ha which can only be accessed by players with less than rank 3 and which just does three maps, lets say fetid, courtyard and anti chamber could be a good idea. This way all the people there will be on an even footing and wont have to worry about rank elitism, and will also get experience in the mechanics of the arena . These maps could offer 1 fame per win and could perhaps even allow new players to make friends on the level of experience that they are on.

What are peoples suggestions and thoughts on this idea, maybe we can agree on something to get new life into ha, and maybe anet will take notice. Maybe. (actually if someone from anet does read this post, please tell the skill balance people to stop soul reaping triggering on spirits :0 infinite energy n/rts are broken and beyond discussion).

mmorpg man
23-09-2007, 17:47
when this was suggested previously I thought it would destroy new player's ego with having to go to the "noob" arena but as far as I can see it its the only way to get HA back to a decent population.

grimwold
23-09-2007, 18:22
If i was a new player i would love to play in a new player arena.

When we need the last player for a team and we have to get a pug from id1, we always ask for r9+. I can see how this is concieved as elitism but from our point of view we dont need a weak link in the team. I simply have no idea how i would go about it i was a new player looking to get into pvp.

At least once they get r3 from the newbie arena they would have a chance. If we really want ha to survive however, anet needs to sort the broken skills out, otherwise we`ll just be populating it with players that have very little skill at the game.

That whole thumpers, plus n/rt with infinite energy and so many spirits that u cant move build needs blowing away or noone interested in actually being good at the game is going to play.

Ranger Nietzsche
23-09-2007, 18:39
that would just sstop people from accepting r3s into their groups on the idea that "they just got r3 from the newbie arena"

woot im a warrior
24-09-2007, 00:27
that would just sstop people from accepting r3s into their groups on the idea that "they just got r3 from the newbie arena"

Those players could also build a friends list easier, right now starting your own group isn't really an option, and it is even hard to get into a thumpway/spiritway team without rank. 99% of the people are ranked that are in HA, and it is a lot harder now then ever before for unranked players to get into groups.

I don't think a newbie arena is the best solution, but ANET needs to do something to make it easier for new players to play HA because right now, even if you are ranked it takes an hour or 2 to get a group which will fall apart after the first loss. For unranked players they can maybe get in 1 match only to get rolled by spiritway/thumpway and not play again, it isn't worth the time.

(BTW paraway > spiritway/thumpway, they don't even stand a chance)

Ugly Betty
24-09-2007, 22:21
that would just stop people from accepting r3s into their groups on the idea that "they just got r3 from the newbie arena"

yup you're right 'bout that. when i got to r3 i immediately worked on my r4 title. i'm glad i did. now days getting in a decent group takes at least an r4.

i think ANet really needs to re-work - not rebalance the skills. dump the crap skills. make damage output evenly distributed among the classes. i.e. increase bow damage but make skills like RaO work only with bow attacks. this business of nerfing here and there is stupid and ineffective.

Ranger Nietzsche
25-09-2007, 00:52
Bow skill damage won't ever happen, Izzy is scared ****less of Ranger Spike.


But the fact is the stigma about rank isn't an obsession with numbers bigger than 3, its perceived crappiness of a large portion of the player base.

Raising the perception from thinking all sub r3s are worthless to thinking all sub r5s are worthless via a newbie HA will do little.

As for friend lists, newbies to HA already have the friendlist option, and they aren't using it.

mmorpg man
25-09-2007, 00:54
yup you're right 'bout that. when i got to r3 i immediately worked on my r4 title. i'm glad i did. now days getting in a decent group takes at least an r4.


this idea is not about getting new players to r3 quicker so they can get into decent groups. its about letting new players learn the map, tactics or HA and helping them gain confidence against other players their own standard.

Ugly Betty
25-09-2007, 01:19
Bow skill damage won't ever happen, Izzy is scared ****less of Ranger Spike.

But the fact is the stigma about rank isn't an obsession with numbers bigger than 3, its perceived crappiness of a large portion of the player base.

Raising the perception from thinking all sub r3s are worthless to thinking all sub r5s are worthless via a newbie HA will do little.

As for friend lists, newbies to HA already have the friendlist option, and they aren't using it.

then fire Izzy... seriously though, the crappiness of a large portion of the population is not perceived it's a reality. HA like any other play style in GW takes some form of commitment - perhaps more than the general population would like to believe or accept. for those who can't develop the proper skills there is PvE.

i agree that "holding people's hands" is not the solution. it's easier than ever before to learn the proper technique and skills for PvP via O-mode and dozens of websites. i don't think there is anything more that needs doing.

mmorpg man
25-09-2007, 01:41
i agree that "holding people's hands" is not the solution. it's easier than ever before to learn the proper technique and skills for PvP via O-mode and dozens of websites. i don't think there is anything more that needs doing.

the best say to get good at somethng is to practice it

Ranger Nietzsche
25-09-2007, 02:08
its perfectly possible to practice HA if you will put forth the effort.

But a lot of new players don't see the cost/reward working out for them with HA.

kongkingx
25-09-2007, 03:13
the best say to get good at somethng is to practice it

But if that something was nerfed one day, you will eventually suck at anything and you won't care anymore because you're pissed and don't have time the to work things up again from zero.

Lose - lose imo.

Ranger Nietzsche
25-09-2007, 06:19
only if you only practice one build over and over again.

Which is the problem with FoTMs, when they get nerfed all the new players who only understand the FoTM realize they suck at the game in general.

tis what happened to all the nub iway people when it finally died.

kongkingx
25-09-2007, 07:54
Yea and remember kids, practice getting good at the game by grouping yourselves in spike builds because all you need is a caller, ability to press buttons at 1 and vent and it never dies since you can slap any classes in a build, whether they're mixed or not, as long as their aggregate damage equates to an overkill, and there, you still have a viable build to play. Ele spike, rit spike, necro spike, paragon spike, dervish spike, ranger spike, smite spike and even eviscerate spike. or better, chopsuey classes spike!11! Moreover, if you got a mixed classes 3-2-1 spike team, you can call delusionally it "balanced" (even if its not), look down at other people and feel good upon yourselves.

Again, remember, if you are good at spiking, you will be good in the game.

mmorpg man
25-09-2007, 09:22
only if you only practice one build over and over again.

who said anything about practicing only 1 build?

Vela
25-09-2007, 14:51
Maybe add a frigging gold chest after every map is won, that will increase the crowd in there. As a Charr would say, " We need more MEAT!"

Jokes aside, I think GW2 Beta will be out soon, like in 6 months or so. Hence, adding some sort of rank matching in battles is not a bad idea. But, whether it is a newbie arena or a rank matching mechanism, HA will be uninteresting to the most simply because of awful lot of various mechanism and tactics involved in the maps.

But, anything is worth trying at this point.

- Vela

Ranger Nietzsche
25-09-2007, 19:54
GW2 beta is for fall 2008

shardfenix
26-09-2007, 10:58
More people would play HA if it wasn't the sh*tt*est arena in the game. I know people who want r6 but don't want to HA because of how bad the maps are and how broken the metabuild is.

Vela
26-09-2007, 15:26
GW2 beta is for fall 2008

12 more months of tiger flashing opportunity! Anyone interested?

.......


........


........


:(

Nope.

- Vela

Tiyuri
26-09-2007, 18:07
then fire Izzy... seriously though, the crappiness of a large portion of the population is not perceived it's a reality. HA like any other play style in GW takes some form of commitment - perhaps more than the general population would like to believe or accept. for those who can't develop the proper skills there is PvE.

i agree that "holding people's hands" is not the solution. it's easier than ever before to learn the proper technique and skills for PvP via O-mode and dozens of websites. i don't think there is anything more that needs doing.

I'm sorry, but you're rank 4 and you're talking about the general population of HA being crap?

B Ephekt
26-09-2007, 19:00
To be fair, Tiy, the guy is right.

Alaris
26-09-2007, 19:22
Another way to implement the newbie idea is that you could try to match teams in terms of overall rank. So you assess the player's PvP skill for each player and sum that up over the team, and match teams on that score.

With some randomness thrown into it for good measure. Just so sometimes you get a better team and get a reality check, and sometimes you get a worse team, and get some ego boosts.

So you end up with more matches that are at your level, so fame piles up faster, you get some wins, and matches are more challenging, less frustrating.

And you don't need to separate the HA population into separate groups or build new areas. It's a relatively easy algorithm to build.

mmorpg man
27-09-2007, 00:25
Another way to implement the newbie idea is that you could try to match teams in terms of overall rank. So you assess the player's PvP skill for each player and sum that up over the team, and match teams on that score.

With some randomness thrown into it for good measure. Just so sometimes you get a better team and get a reality check, and sometimes you get a worse team, and get some ego boosts.

So you end up with more matches that are at your level, so fame piles up faster, you get some wins, and matches are more challenging, less frustrating.

And you don't need to separate the HA population into separate groups or build new areas. It's a relatively easy algorithm to build.

so you basically want to have it like in GvG where you have ranked matches. that could work if you could also have unranked matches with it.

shardfenix
01-10-2007, 00:56
Another way to implement the newbie idea is that you could try to match teams in terms of overall rank. So you assess the player's PvP skill for each player and sum that up over the team, and match teams on that score.
Wait...did you just compare rank to player skill? LOLOLOLROLFOLROLFORLOFL.

FAIL.

So...new players would face endless r3 spiritways and continually lose.

The only fix HA needs is a game balance and the removal of bad maps. The thing about pvp today is that most of the things people play take no skill whatsoever. This isn't a competitive game.

Vela
01-10-2007, 15:26
Wait...did you just compare rank to player skill? LOLOLOLROLFOLROLFORLOFL.

FAIL.

So...new players would face endless r3 spiritways and continually lose.

The only fix HA needs is a game balance and the removal of bad maps. The thing about pvp today is that most of the things people play take no skill whatsoever. This isn't a competitive game.

Having rank matched teams are good idea as most people will have balanced knowledge about different maps and strategies involved. I have said this in the other threads on this topic and I will reiterate...have HA matches rank-matched with 5 teams in HoH and make the arena PuG friendly. Let 1337's stay in their close shell and have fun in their own way. So that they don't bug everyone with their leetness.

The truth about HA:

1. You don't need a lot of skill to excel in HA.
2. You need a decent friend-list to gain fame and rank.
3. You need plenty of time at hand to gain fame in HA.
4. You may need to stay up at odd-hours to gain more fame in shorter time.

The truth about GW PvP:

1. Make sure you can diss the other guy before he/she can diss you.
2. If you are higher rank than the most others in thr group, simply cover your stupid strat-call mistakes by shifting the blame to someone else.
3. Learn from your mistakes of being slow at shifting blames and be fast to cover your a$$.
4. Always say PvP in its current form sucks, it was good earlier.
5. If you get owned by unranked scrubway, always be the first to curse the teammates and then ANET for making an unbalanced game.
6. You are never wrong. Never ADMIT your own mistakes when you are in a group.

:grin:

However, there are exceptions to these and I prefer to see more exceptions.

- Vela (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Vel)

Ranger Nietzsche
01-10-2007, 22:00
Vela, since your suggestion was different than the OP (and it is a thread about the OP suggestion)

and since it was on a broader topic than just HA, I moved it to the General PvP forum and gave it its own thread.

here is the link

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465676

mmorpg man
01-10-2007, 22:19
The only fix HA needs is a game balance and the removal of bad maps. The thing about pvp today is that most of the things people play take no skill whatsoever. This isn't a competitive game.

yeah you can get a heroway group together and ready in 5mins and do ok. any fool can be a thumper and they just get the heroes to do the skillful bits. also I have been playing HA constantly for the last month and have faced a spike on nearly every map in ever team. how boring is that?

Dallcingi
06-10-2007, 04:15
Thats why we have an HA weekend today.

BabyJ
06-10-2007, 19:26
As for friend lists, newbies to HA already have the friendlist option, and they aren't using it.

The friend list option is a little easier said then done. Ranked players wont give unranked players the time of day let alone be friends with em. :sad:
When i started playin gw 2 years ago my goal was to get good enough to get in the pvp side of gw, yet by the time i figured out how skills work and what not i missed the boat per say. Now with all the rank discrim it will be very likely that goal will never happen. But i enjoy the game so I'll continue playin, its not like I'll quit just cause i can't get rank. I can't speak for all the unranked people but for myself that little deer emote that most people will shrug off as no big deal is a pretty big deal as a personal goal to get.
Personally i cant see holdin anet with the whole reason theres no new players in HA. Yeah they might nerf the skills and people will come up with no skill builds and make their way through. But it still comes down to rank discrim as a lot of the reason also. No one wants "unranked noobs" in their groups so how is a new person going to learn anything. Yeah, i could possibly make a thumper and gain a little fame, but i actually want to learn, not just gank my way through and not learn anything. But i am unranked so gettin in a group that i can actually learn something is a waste of my time cause it will never happen.

mmorpg man
06-10-2007, 20:21
Thats why we have an HA weekend today.

HA weekends only make fame more useless than it already is.


Personally i cant see holdin anet with the whole reason theres no new players in HA. Yeah they might nerf the skills and people will come up with no skill builds and make their way through. But it still comes down to rank discrim as a lot of the reason also. No one wants "unranked noobs" in their groups so how is a new person going to learn anything. Yeah, i could possibly make a thumper and gain a little fame, but i actually want to learn, not just gank my way through and not learn anything. But i am unranked so gettin in a group that i can actually learn something is a waste of my time cause it will never happen.

you're not alone there mate. whenever I've tried to make my own groups using my own build, people will come in, ask if its ranked then leave. even if I can get a full team together we do 1 run and then someone leaves and I have to spend another 10mins getting a replacement. by that time other's have left because they're too impatient to wait and just want to "pwn everyone". when will people learn that you can't do things in PvE the same as things in PvP.

BabyJ
06-10-2007, 20:42
Thats why we have an HA weekend today.

So the already ranked players can gain more rank?
So the new players go in there and rolled over in 2 seconds by ranked groups?
Yeah thats really bringin em in there! Sorry if i sound really sarcastic, but the truth remains, the new players that do come in those weekends get discouraged and don't come back. I've faced the fact that most of the ranked people will never take a little time to help someone rather than put them down for being a "pve noob" So I'll carry on with my Pve Noobness! RAWR!

Vexenna
07-10-2007, 03:40
So the already ranked players can gain more rank?
So the new players go in there and rolled over in 2 seconds by ranked groups?
Yeah thats really bringin em in there! Sorry if i sound really sarcastic, but the truth remains, the new players that do come in those weekends get discouraged and don't come back. I've faced the fact that most of the ranked people will never take a little time to help someone rather than put them down for being a "pve noob" So I'll carry on with my Pve Noobness! RAWR!


I don't have any rank at all. I love PvP, i've done a fair share of GvG and some TA, but I cant seem to ever find a place to start at when it comes to getting into HA, as much as I would love to. I tried to do some HA so far this weekend with guildies and one such group that beat us claimed that "we had been farmed." So, I would personally love a new-HA-players area.

mmorpg man
07-10-2007, 05:19
So the already ranked players can gain more rank?
So the new players go in there and rolled over in 2 seconds by ranked groups?
Yeah thats really bringin em in there! Sorry if i sound really sarcastic, but the truth remains, the new players that do come in those weekends get discouraged and don't come back. I've faced the fact that most of the ranked people will never take a little time to help someone rather than put them down for being a "pve noob" So I'll carry on with my Pve Noobness! RAWR!

couldn't've put it better myself.

MercenaryKnight
07-10-2007, 05:53
It would be nice if anet made a double ha weekend for people under rank 3. Also make it so the ha titles= hidden for the weekend so their won't be any discouraging.

It's nearly impossible to do anything unless you create your own group. I even made my own group and after every attempt someone would leave and many people would pm asking "what rank" I will respond no rank needed and they just say noob and don't join.

I honestly doubt i'll ever get any high ranks even with double ha weekends because I get into 0 groups.

Would be nice to see specific weekends to encourage people to play with low rank players.

Alleji
07-10-2007, 07:36
HA doesn't need double fame weekends or a sandbox arena. HA needs to be fun.

The first step should be weeding all the crap out of the game. Like... remove Nightfall from PvP.

mmorpg man
07-10-2007, 13:33
The first step should be weeding all the crap out of the game. Like... remove Nightfall from PvP.

how would that make a difference? there just won't be para spike anymore. so what?

shardfenix
07-10-2007, 13:49
how would that make a difference? there just won't be para spike anymore. so what?
However, there would be balanced skills ZOMGWTF.

Look at any abused build today. The key skills are all nightfall skills. Balancing them out (or removing them...which anet cant do) will fix the meta.

You are all reaching wayyyy to far. HA doesn't need complicated mechanics or limitations. It just needs to be cleaned up. Anet keeps adding badly designed maps and objectives, thinking they'll be fun. We just need to go back to the old maps. (I like fetid too, but alliance battles should stay in, uhh, alliance battles.)

Sadly, the best thing to happen to halls in the past 28 months is King of the Hill, which is basically a better version of holding.

twistedmo
07-10-2007, 14:10
So the already ranked players can gain more rank?
So the new players go in there and rolled over in 2 seconds by ranked groups?
Yeah thats really bringin em in there! Sorry if i sound really sarcastic, but the truth remains, the new players that do come in those weekends get discouraged and don't come back. I've faced the fact that most of the ranked people will never take a little time to help someone rather than put them down for being a "pve noob" So I'll carry on with my Pve Noobness! RAWR!

I wouldn't say thats completely true.
I'm only a casual pvper, but played friday evening at the start of the event with bunch of ranked (average ranked 2-5) and unranked players and beat half all ranked teams (includings [DOGS])we were matched up with using a teambuild of modded Sway with eles.

Most new players/low ranked teams hesitate at 1st or charge the monks at the backline, which why they get rolled over in 2sec because they allow themselves to get picked off.

BabyJ
07-10-2007, 16:00
Well im glad you were able to get some halfway decent groups. I really haven't even bothered goin to HA this weekend because last time there was this double fame i did manage to pick up 7 (woohoo) fame. Not to mention if i even thought about gettin in a group with ranked group the only comments i received was "LOL PVE NOOB" and "go back to pve nub" etc. etc. I just dont see why the majority (only some not all) of HA players have to act this way. Yet they say they cant get any new players. :huh: From my personal experiences i would rather be a pve noob then to go to HA and get the smack talk from most of the players there. Yeah, i dont need a fancy emote to play gw its only a personal goal i set but thats one i'll never achieve. The only point I'm tryin to make here is it's been said that the reason theres not new players in HA is because of anet and thats not the only reason. Its players as well.

Shuuda
07-10-2007, 16:22
HA doesn't need complicated mechanics or limitations. It just needs to be cleaned up.

Quoted for truth. If anything, I wouldn't mind if HA was simplified a bit.

Shadowspawn X
09-10-2007, 23:47
However, there would be balanced skills ZOMGWTF.
You are all reaching wayyyy to far. HA doesn't need complicated mechanics or limitations. It just needs to be cleaned up.


I love the new maps, the strategy of these maps keeps it from being a slug feast. HA doesn't need to be cleaned up at all. It needs to stop being neglected by the best players in the game. If all the great gvg'r and top players came to HA more often that place would be rock'in. They snobing HA and making it barren of high talent.

mmorpg man
10-10-2007, 00:47
Well im glad you were able to get some halfway decent groups. I really haven't even bothered goin to HA this weekend because last time there was this double fame i did manage to pick up 7 (woohoo) fame. Not to mention if i even thought about gettin in a group with ranked group the only comments i received was "LOL PVE NOOB" and "go back to pve nub" etc. etc. I just dont see why the majority (only some not all) of HA players have to act this way. Yet they say they cant get any new players. From my personal experiences i would rather be a pve noob then to go to HA and get the smack talk from most of the players there. Yeah, i dont need a fancy emote to play gw its only a personal goal i set but thats one i'll never achieve. The only point I'm tryin to make here is it's been said that the reason theres not new players in HA is because of anet and thats not the only reason. Its players as well.

I know what it feels like. what ranked players should do is tell the inexperienced player what is wrong with their build or playstyle instead of just automatically picking them the moment they do anything wrong. this puts pressure on new players to try to impress the higher ranked players instead of just enjoying the PvP.

Ugly Betty
10-10-2007, 01:24
I wouldn't say thats completely true.
I'm only a casual pvper, but played friday evening at the start of the event with bunch of ranked (average ranked 2-5) and unranked players and beat half all ranked teams (includings [DOGS])we were matched up with using a teambuild of modded Sway with eles.

Most new players/low ranked teams hesitate at 1st or charge the monks at the backline, which why they get rolled over in 2sec because they allow themselves to get picked off.

i also play casually and usually use my friends list of r4-r7 players to get into a group. we do quite well and always have fun. i agree that new players have a tendency to over-extend instead of being patient. we all have to start someplace.