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CarbonBasedLifeform
25-09-2007, 09:42
did we ever get some clues as to why they went into hybernation?

There area few explainations:

1) Drakkar. in regards to the GW PC gamer mag, they talked about humans finding the dragon sleeping in the lake. they could suggest it was flash frozen or something.


OR!!! this one was on contrast to the drakkar one

2) the "water" dragon in the charr lands. in the mag again, in the caption, they explained that the an island grew around the dragon as it slept. grew AROUND it, this is to say it wasn't an instant case, but the dragon is literally sleeping there and the island formed around it.



so anyway, do we get an explaination as to why they were sleeping in the first place?

Kyrion Hellcat
25-09-2007, 10:58
The popular explanations to 'long dreams' is that they are needed to 'recharge' powers... or to avoid cataclisms.

Maybe dragons were exhausted (or bored) after a long immortal existence. One dream of hundreds or perhaps thousands of years may allow them to awake 'refreshed', with all their powers replenished.


The cataclism theory suggests that something happened in the world which forced dragons into their 'dreamstate' in order to survive or endure the circumstances for a long period, only to awake when the environment was more favorable.

Being such powerful magical creatures ('That statue practically bleeds magic'), maybe the bloodstones are related to the dragons' dissappearance. If the bloodstones were created to control magic, maybe that control affected negatively the very dragons' existence. So they choose to hibernate or hide, in order to withstand the severed link with magic.

But now that the bloodstones are being recovered and manipulated by humans, proabably weakening that 'magic control', dragons are regaining enough power to awake once more.

Quintus Antonius
25-09-2007, 14:44
I doubt that is the purpose of the Bloodstones. We've already been told two other uses for them, I hope they don't reuse them for the next storyline too.

Erasculio
25-09-2007, 18:18
did we ever get some clues as to why they went into hybernation?

I had the feeling they were forced into hybernation, especially given their tendencies of trying to destroy the world. IMO, someone powerful (the old gods?) just couldn't kill them and just put them to sleep. But I haven't read the magazine yet.

Erasculio

Jair of the Forest
25-09-2007, 18:36
Agreed with Erasculio, it is very likely that the dragons were actually imprisoned by the 6 Gods, for reasons we can only speculate about. Only the fact that Primordus was covered by stone [something that doesn't happen by time, and I doubt he did it to himself] proves this theory.

melhei haemathet
25-09-2007, 19:28
Maybe dragons were exhausted (or bored) after a long immortal existence. One dream of hundreds or perhaps thousands of years may allow them to awake 'refreshed', with all their powers replenished.

I guess in those parameters Glint may have had the Flame Seeker Prophesies as she slept and woke to prophesize.

Is there any link between the destruction of Orr and the start time frame of the prophesy? Could the cataclismic effect have woken Glint so she could tell (or hint) the prophesy, just as the changing of the dwarves/destruction of the 'great destroyer' seems to have awaken the other dragon?

Karuro
25-09-2007, 20:36
Orr blew up sometime after The Searing of Ascalon.

272 AE: Glint tells the Flameseeker Prophecies.
1070 AE: The Searing

I think the Cataclysm was in the same year or 1071 AE.

FOOZBEAR
27-09-2007, 19:22
Dragons in other fantasy Lore have always had it that it was dangerous to wake a sleeping dragon.

The dragon goes through regular hibernation cycles that may last centries....common belief is that they hibernate to store up energy to mate.

the chinese bearded dragon also does a similar thing. they do wake(like a bear) and eat but they do not need as much sustinance. a chinese bearded dragon can hibernate and not eat for 3 months and be perfectly normal. if this translates to dragons and knowing that dragons can live for centries, then a centry is not a long time for a dragon to hibernate.

zeeZer
28-09-2007, 16:40
Dragons don't think in hours and minutes, they have a lot more time to waste. A few decades means nothing to them, might as well just have been napping a couple of centuries

Harjubal od Uo
30-09-2007, 05:41
If the article is to be trusted in this instance, it mentions that this latest period of dormancy is just part of the "cycle" of sleep that the dragons have. This would strongly suggest that going to sleep for extended periods happens all the time for them, and that this last stretch was not necessarily anything out of the ordinary.

Quintus Antonius
30-09-2007, 05:59
I wonder how the gods fit into all this, if they do at all.

rex silverbane
02-10-2007, 19:04
personally i think that when the new gods came (balth, melandru, grenth etc) they saw beings that rivaled their own (stolen) powers and trapped them away im ironicly their own element; drakkar was trapped in ice, primordius in stone, the dragon of water in the sea, the dragon of orr under orr and grothmar in the charr homelands (no idea on this one)

FOOZBEAR
02-10-2007, 21:09
And on the subject of hibernating to get energy to mate....doesnt Glint have some eggs near her?

as she is the first awoken, she has been busy laying eggs.

Quintus Antonius
02-10-2007, 21:14
Who says she is the first awoken? The PCGamer says she and Kuunvang are entirely different than the ancient dragons.

FOOZBEAR
02-10-2007, 22:09
so she is Different than the ancient dragons?

she does bare a resembalance to the statue in EotN in the area next central transfer chamber. also the dragon head pictures seen in shards of orr...have a very similar head structure to glint.

the beast in the lake is certainly a different body structure than what I saw on glint.

and if glint is a dragon....wouldnt the fact that the ancient dragons (fantasy lore has it that a dragon is a dragon is a dragon.) are the same as a regular dragon except more magical and bigger..

and if glint is a dragon and SHE has been busy laying eggs then the ancient ones would also be going to do the same..if they are female.

and then the question becomes....which is the male? as fantasy lore has it that the females were the ones mostly found in caves and the males torched the country side.

This is all based on out of game information and the staff of ANET may decide to rewrite dragon mythology.

and the fact that kuunavang and glint are not the same dragon species as the ancients would make sense from kuunavang body stucture.

asian dragons were MORE serpent like in structure than western dragons which were MORE lizard like. looking at the structure of kuunavang would make it a wyvern and not a dragon.

The name "wyvern" derived from the Saxon word Wivere, which means "serpent". The French wyvern is known as the Vouivre. Both words are etymologically related to viper.

The wyvern can be regarded as a type of or similar to a dragon. Depictions often include two legs and two wings. Sometimes there are eagle's claws on the wingtips. The rest of its appearance can vary, such as appearing with a tail spade or with a serpent-like tail.

Glint appears to be a modern version of what we know and associate with dragons...the lizard or dinasaur look....with wings.

looking at the staute in the end mission of EotN....it is of similar structure to Glint...and not kuunavang.....leading to kuunavang MAY be the last of his species.

also being that Glint is only 3000 years old she may be a baby compared to the ancients....

{from outside knowledge of dragons in fantasy lore}
also it is interesting to note that while the basic structure is the same for most dragons...there are differing details regarding their "elemental" alignment. a water dragon would have a shorter flatter tail than say a Flying dragon. the head may also change from dragon to dragon....but one thing is common in all dragons.....the older they are, the bigger they are...the more magic they have...and the more malicious they become.

looking at the record on official wiki shows MANY dragons in the game...including all drakes....and the word dragon comes from draco which meant serpent like....

so if Pc gamer says they are NOT related then I guess ANET are rewriting dragon lore.

Walks With Angels
02-10-2007, 23:39
" Entirely different " would seem a little strong, since the magazine describes Glint and Kuunavang as " but youths, lesser powers of the ancients that came before ".

Personally - at the risk of reading too much into printed words - I would focus on :


Sleeping monsters, aeons old, have awakened.

+


These were both caused by the surfacing of ancient powers - true dragons, more dangerous than anything Tyria has ever known.

+


With his breath, he twisted earth and stone, shaping creatures and giving them life. Although the death of the Great destroyer, his most powerful general, set back the dragon's awakening by two generations... * snip *

+


It was almost three thousand year ago that a race of serpents ( the Forgotten ) stepped out of the Rift onto the soil of Tyria.
* snip *
They had been summoned by the old gods, brought to this world to be the custodians. Their task ; shepherd the other creatures of the land through this time of transition, while the gods continued to create this world around them.

+


Despite the serpents' ( the Forgotten ) retreat, the gods never halted their work creating the world, and with the benevolence of indulgent parents, they decided to create magic. It was to be a gift to all of the intelligent creatures... * snip *

+


10,000 BE | Last sign of Giganticus Lupicus ( the great giants ) walking on Tyrian continent ( best guess ).

If " more dangerous than anything Tyria has ever known " were to literally mean that there was no Tyria in the time of the dragons, then they would have had to been asleep for more than 11,072 years at the very least.

The Prophecies manuscript seem to explicitly state that the Tyrian continent was identifiable in 10,000 BE - in which case the 1769 BE ' creation ' must have been more of a shaping of the land to its current form - so presumably the dragons must have been forgotten by then and all traces lost.

Would this offer insight in to why they slumber ? Err, no. :embarassed:

But it does tie in to my second point, which would be that they were probably never trapped and certainly not ironically within their own elements / domains...
If Primordus was able to spawn an army of Destroyers from earth and stone with his breath while asleep ( remember he does not actually wake for another two centuries ), then the location of dragons would not seem to be at all coincidental :

* A dragon with power over earth deep beneath it in a massive network of tunnels - it was likely expanding the network with every breath.

* A dragon with power of cold beneath an icy lake inhabited by Ice Elementals - it was likely freezing the air with every breath until there was nought but ice, and ' birthing ' elementals constantly.

* A dragon with power over death beneath a land where the most powerful Necromancy ever performed by Humans occurred - it was likely exhaling enough power to make Orr the Necromancy hotspot of the entire world.

Finally my third point ; if magic was created by the gods in 1 BE ( as the manuscript timeline states ), how can Primordus be frequently stated in Eye Of The North to " practically bleed magic " ?

Neither of the juvenile dragons encountered - and fought - so far wields actual magic ; they wield unique dragon skills.

If dragons do indeed pre-date magic but are now seen to be over-flowing with it, then magic could well be the root of their awakening.

What if they were not meant to wake up now ?
What if they were never meant to wake up ?
What if ' sleep ' is the closest to death their race can ever know ?
Did the gods know that magic would awaken the dragons ?
How could they not know ?

All fun stuff, but overall my only guess towards the question of why they hibernated / slept in the first place is... sleeping is about as dead as dragons can get, and it would have been a permanent state but for those meddling kid-gods. :grin:

Arkhan The Black
03-10-2007, 01:07
I am pretty sure the gods give magic to the mortals of Tyria not create it. The magic has always been there, the gods just choose to let the world mature before handing it out. Unfortunate the big haxxor Abaddon decided it was a good idea to hand out magic in it's purest form and everyone began to abuse it. Then the other gods had to step in and nerf it and therefor locked it away in the Bloodstones.

GyrussX
03-10-2007, 05:32
Based on the articles, and from ideas in other stories/myth... my guess would be it has to do with a cycle of creation and destruction going back countless eons.

Whatever the world was before... in the time of gigantus lupicious perhaps... the dragons "awakened" and destroyed everything.

The gods when they arrived in tyria, either found the dragons already slumbering (their work already done), or forced them into a deathlike state themselves.

Now millenia have passed, the world is full again, the dragon's power is full, and they are awakening to destroy the world again, their only purpose or goal.

In their wake, perhaps a new world will be created, and as millenia goes by the cycle will repeat.... unless... (bugle call) our brave heroes rise to the challenge and break the cycle of destruction/creation.

Again, just a guess on my part. I mostly base it on the fact that the text seems to state the dragons basically have no goal or thought but to destroy, the timeline that basically shows the gods arrived in an existing world, but obviously one that needed a lot of work, and that there was something there well before the gods arrival that dissappeared. Couple that with the fact that many fictional stories (and human legends) deal with the subject of the cyclic nature of existance, creation-destruction-rebirth, etc... I think it may be a decent guess.

SurviverX
03-10-2007, 06:02
To answer that question, you'll have to answer this question first: did the gods exist before the time of dragons?

mocax
03-10-2007, 15:32
Primordus sounds like a character from a HK comic "Weapons of the Gods" :tongue:
The bad guy's name roughly translates to Primordial Demon. He was imprisoned by a god named Original Beginning Celestial. And in plotting to free himself, he creates 10 demonic weapons and a human avatar with his breath. And so on...
The hero collects 10 Godly weapons to thwart the demon's evil scheme. Along the way, the evil avatar somehow became not so evil. :tongue:

Anyway, the dragons probably hibernate after destroying stuff in the old world. The gods may have came along after the dragons slept. Taking over the world sneakily.

Or the dragons used too much power fighting the then-noob gods and promptly "fell dead". The gods believing the dragons to be dead, could've just left them where they are.

Or the gods beat the dragons, but could not destroy them, so imprisoned them instead.
Maybe Dhuum/Grenth fought that Drakkar dragon in the far shiverpeaks and froze it.
Melandru then buried that other dragon with mud and twigs.
Balthazar probably encased Primordius with lava, and created the power of the Great Dwarf, in case they need it in the future.

Quintus Antonius
03-10-2007, 17:02
I'm curious to see how Dhuum, Menzies, and Kormir will factor in to all this. Of the Old Gods (or relation to them, in the case of Menzies and Kormir), they are the only ones that remain. Will we be forced to join forces with Kormir and ally with Dhuum and Menzies to stop this threat?

PwnyRide
05-10-2007, 13:00
Or, i could be a matter of them getting tired? I mean come on, they are insanely huge, they may hibernate or sleep for hundreds, even thousands of years at a time.

the explaination of them being in such strange places could be a matter of safety and protection. The locations of the dragons are rather secluded or protected. The matter of this dragon in the destroyer spawning pool chamber could be purely chance.

The great destroyer (if that was what we really fought) would have chosen a place with massive magical levels in order to power the spawning of the destroyer hordes, and dragons are known to affect surroundings or give of isanely high power levels even when dormant (the corruption of Svanir, for example) . The detroyers may have just leeched from the power emenating from this dragon (that people are calling Primordius if i'm not mistaken).

This may have therefore triggered the awakening of the Primordus, as well as some of the other dragons accross the globe. I wont go into too much speculation, but it would not be questionable as to say that the dragons are connected somehow, whether is be spiritually or mentally.

mocax
07-10-2007, 06:53
since Kormir's the walking wikipedia, she'd likely be the first one the heroes of GW2 visit to get answers from.

Perhaps when Grenth realized that he had to specialize his domain to maximize his powers, he'd give up his death or water role to Dhuum and become a full-fledged deathly/icy god. Then the necros and water wizards of GW2 would be buffed beyond recognition.

psionicflames
31-10-2007, 10:43
Skill: Destroy World! Description: Destroy all life as we know it! Suffer 10,000 year knockdown after damage calculation. Additional 200 years knockdown for every major minion defeated. :)

...
Anyway, its entirely possible that these dragons are the rightful rulers of tyria, and that they spent all their magic creating a world for themselves in the myst's, and then exhuasted, they fall to slumber in their perfect home, then along come these annoying gods who reforge THEIR nestworld into the world as we know it and spread magic around to everyone, so, even in their slumber, they try to recreate their ideal world, and once they have enough energy to awaken completely, of course they would actively try and reclaim their territory, and perhaps the gods withdrew so as to prevent the dragons from realizing who had done this to their world and coming after THEM first.

I know absolutely nothing about any of this, this is rampant speculation, so please, poke holes so i can learn~

rex silverbane
31-10-2007, 18:16
this is jsut my opinion but i and convinced the something imprisoned each individual dragon. as evidenced by primordus's "chains"

alaeradevin
01-11-2007, 09:55
Hmm - all these dragons - how the hell are we gonna fight them in gw2? Quite frankly its putting me off.

Arkhan The Black
01-11-2007, 11:16
I think while the gods is the masters of the in-material realm the dragons are the masters of the material one which could explain their unmatched powers.

liamSlayer
01-11-2007, 11:50
Hmm - all these dragons - how the hell are we gonna fight them in gw2? Quite frankly its putting me off.

mabye the gods give us magic defence and power?

John Ebridge
01-11-2007, 12:55
My line of thought about the sleeping dragons is this:

Hibernation occurs when the environment is unfavorable.
What change in the environment makes it favorable enough for the ancient dragons to awaken?

Could it be that the existence of mankind is an unfavorable condition?
So with diminishing numbers of mankind the conditions for the sleeping dragons becomes better?

Troal
01-11-2007, 22:21
Hibernation occurs when the environment is unfavorable.
What change in the environment makes it favorable enough for the ancient dragons to awaken?

The death of Abaddon perhaps? It could be a possible reason (though certainly not the only one) for why Abaddon was not outright destroyed by the gods. Maybe he was the one keeping them dormant all this time, and that's what drove him insane.

kerinad
04-12-2007, 15:32
One possible explanation for the hibernation of our scaly adversaries-to-be is that they had just destroyed the original species of giants and didn't have a lot else to do in this growing world apart from pester the ancient gods of the time which had to have gotten dull after a while, so why not create some critters to defend you whilst you slept and then take a nap?

I mean in the story of the Great Dwarf vs. the Great Destroyer, the Great Dwarf fashions his weapons on Anvil Rock and then goes to fight against the Great Destroyer, not Primordus the gigantic dragon that'd swallow about 50 dwarves whole, but his general. Primordus isn't even mentioned. So in the case of Primordus I'm guessing he just found a cave to call his own, made the Great Destroyer and a handful of lieutenants for his new general and then let the Great Destroyer design his own army using Primordus' breath as he slept. The Great Destroyers orders were probably to kill everything in the area when things were getting interesting and then wake him so that he could make a quiet, yet dramatic entrance into the new world he'd wake into. We caused him a problem by killing off his alarm clock but hey. As for the layer of rock that's developed over his scales that happens after millions of years in a cave, the same way you get stalagmites and stalagtites in caves growing over millions of years.

In the case of Drakkar, that whole area probably used to be a massive lake or basin, so a semi-aquatic dragon like Drakkar may well have just settled at the bottom of the lake and gone to sleep, climates changed and so Drakkar got frozen solid in the lake.

As for Grothmar, he's gargantuan, much bigger I'd wager than a fair few of the other ancient dragons, so he didn't have much to worry about when settling down to sleep, but also looking at the lay of the land that area was probably a large lake or basin as well when the world was young, so it lay down at the bottom of the lake and the silt gathered over the top of it, the water receded and now the dragon sleeps in a hill.

The dragon in the sea is easy to explain, it cannonballed in and then when it hit the bottom it went to sleep.

The Orrian dragon is slightly harder to explain or guess at, but we know that there were many caves under the Orrian Peninsula, like the caves that Lady Glaive used that are now remembered and related to in the Shards of Orr dungeon so a dragon finding a place to hide itself beneath Orr wouldn't be that surprising and then it slept. It didn't feel the need to create minions like Primordus had, but then with Khilbron's help ended up making some anyway during the Cataclysm.

La Jaffa
04-01-2008, 19:09
But Primodus is chaint to the ground..
i think he was the Leader of the Dragons.
A dragon could defeat a god but if all the gods Rallied power and fought the boss (Primodus) then all the other dragons Went crazy and Just sheltert where they could
Just like the Great destroyer
when hwe was Destroyed the minions where nothing but rock, Not very smart

Bookah boy
15-01-2008, 19:41
Kerinad, i think i have found a flaw in your theory on Drakkar. There are several broken trees under the frozen surface, indicating that it may have been a small gorge. They are probably broken because Drakkar probably got blasted into the far shiverpeaks and he probably landed their, but i'm not sure how he got frozen.

Karuro
15-01-2008, 20:11
But Primodus is chaint to the ground..
i think he was the Leader of the Dragons.
A dragon could defeat a god but if all the gods Rallied power and fought the boss (Primodus) then all the other dragons Went crazy and Just sheltert where they could
Just like the Great destroyer
when hwe was Destroyed the minions where nothing but rock, Not very smart
Though the case with the Great Destroyer and his minions involves them being a hivemind.
With the mind gone, there's nothing left.

Karn the Betrayer
16-01-2008, 09:12
In the case of Drakkar, that whole area probably used to be a massive lake or basin, so a semi-aquatic dragon like Drakkar may well have just settled at the bottom of the lake and gone to sleep, climates changed and so Drakkar got frozen solid in the lake.


if that was a lake expalin the trees in it?

Harjubal od Uo
16-01-2008, 09:40
The trees are pretty problematic however one looks at it. Even if they were there when Drakkar was frozen in the lake, the tips of the trees extend above the ice and still alive and green, suggesting that the lake was flash-frozen only very recently. How is that possible if this has been a threatening place in norn culture for generations, as Jora implies in one of the cutscenes? I don't have an answer for the trees, but they certainly do make trying to parse out the history of the lake more difficult for every theory.

Troal
16-01-2008, 23:25
The trees are pretty problematic however one looks at it. Even if they were there when Drakkar was frozen in the lake, the tips of the trees extend above the ice and still alive and green, suggesting that the lake was flash-frozen only very recently.

As long as nutrients and water find their way into the soil, and light reaches the leaves of the trees, I'm fairly certain the trees could remain alive even while half submerged. Note that due to the nature of water's density, it's likely that the lake is only icy on the top - there should be plenty of water at the bottom of the lake to keep the trees alive.

Gmr Leon
17-01-2008, 00:40
As long as nutrients and water find their way into the soil, and light reaches the leaves of the trees, I'm fairly certain the trees could remain alive even while half submerged. Note that due to the nature of water's density, it's likely that the lake is only icy on the top - there should be plenty of water at the bottom of the lake to keep the trees alive.

You say the bottom, but the trees that pierce the surface and have green leaves are closer to the shores of the lake. Not near the bottom of the lake are their roots and neither are they in general.

Also, if there were water at the bottom of the lake and, I may be mistaken here, the creature's body parts reach down to it that would just kind of defeat the frozen in lake point they were trying to convey.

gervasium
17-01-2008, 07:18
The roots of the plant go deep in the ground so they can find whatever water they need, as well as nutrients. I think too much water, as in "Hey, I'm in the middle of lake!" would kill the plant, but as there isn't (according to the flash frozen theory, then the plant would be able to survive, i believe, for as long as part of it were connected both to the sunlight and also the roots.

Brainbasher
17-01-2008, 09:41
As long as nutrients and water find their way into the soil, and light reaches the leaves of the trees, I'm fairly certain the trees could remain alive even while half submerged.

No, plant roots need oxgen too and usually they get it from the air in the soil. Yes, plants produce oxygen too but that all goes into the air. Certain trees like mangroves and reed can survive in waterlogged ground but that is because they have specilized breathing vents.(edit) yes they can survive for a while but not more than a few weeks.(/edit)

Now for drakkar, maybe the old(good) abbadon tsunamied him into the mountains where grenth flashfroze him. ant that was when drakkar decided to go to sleep.

Or maybe, he is not the real dragon as he is a lot smaller as the other dragons(see my comment in the thread about dragons gullet) and he was maybe a glint-gods like relationship

Harjubal od Uo
17-01-2008, 20:11
I was actually more concerned with the fact that having 95% of your body encased in ice seems like a hard way to make a living, even for alpine evergreens. I'm not sure if any plants could survive being under twenty meters of ice any better than they could survive being under twenty meters of water for all the reasons stated by others above.

La Jaffa
19-01-2008, 12:21
But if a plant is encased in ice it can die but it leafs cant fall off because its encased so it can go any where, its stays intact, but its dead.

Little Hex
19-01-2008, 12:38
Maybe they are genetically modified with a protein that sorounds their body and enables them to survive bellow 0 temperatures.

Lordofthesword
19-01-2008, 12:56
I think because they where tired of the annoying humans:laugh:

FourthVariety
19-01-2008, 13:16
For ANY plantlife to survive the Shiverpeaks, the snow HAS to melt in the summertime. If there is no melting period, then more snow would fall, then even more snow and eventually even the top of the trees would be covered. A glacier would come into existence.

Planet Earth does not know any tree growing in areas that have permanent snow cover. They simply die of dehydration eventually.

Drakkar Lake in the summertime would either be a normal lake with something really weird floating in the middle of it, or the "ice" dragon somehow keeps the lake frozen all year 'round due to some magical effect. Nearby trees and the ground would still be unaffected. If the magic would affect them, they would be dead by now. Exposure to the air will kill them and the ice dragon will keep them from metabolizing.

If you want to freeze leaves, then you must act quickly, else the leaves will loose their color. If plants are submerged in water, then they will die and loose the leaves. Then the whole plant dies before it can shed its leaves and they will turn brown because they are no longer active.

As far as creation is concerned, ultimately anything just came into existence from the mists. If you are powerful enough you can create other stuff from the mists (the gods can for example), but generally the mists created the first stuff from itself. Whether the mist is a conscious entity or the act of creation just some random effect is unknown.

Arkhan The Black
19-01-2008, 15:28
Urgh can't we just say wizard did it?

Gmr Leon
19-01-2008, 22:38
Urgh can't we just say wizard did it?

Of course we could, but that wouldn't be much fun and it would defeat the point of the Lore Forum in the first place.

If you're tired of Drakkar we could always try to decipher the runes on the Stacks in the Halls of Chokhin or the Atrocity Library. :grin:

La Jaffa
20-01-2008, 10:16
The what in the who?

psionicflames
20-01-2008, 10:45
It is a possibility that the dragons battled each other to the point where they had to rest, recharge and heal their bodies and minds.

Anyway, regarding the plant issue above, is it not possible that the aura of the dragon sustains the plants in a sort of hydroponic effect. After all if Primordius oozes magic one assumes the others do as well, and as Jora can attest, drakkar's aura extends well above the surface of the lake and is still powerful enough to affect the power of the norn spirits. Now, one would assume that this would mutate the trees in some way, but that is not necessarily the case, if perhaps drakkar crafted his little ice nest in such a way as to support and nuture his body while he slept, that effect could carry over to the plants as well.

One would assume that the lava around old primordius had a similar purpose for him, which would explain why the great destroyer hopped down in it to heal and why the destroyers used fire for blood (metaphoricallly speaking)

FourthVariety
20-01-2008, 13:12
Hmm, hibernation due to lack of power. Sounds good, especially since the awakening got delayed by destroying the destroyers.

The Destroyer storyline seems to suggest that the dragons can't just awake at will, not even Primordius. Even he required some preparation to be done by his henchmen. Which brings us to the whole "bleed magic" concept. If Primordius is emanating power while doing nothing then he must at least regenerate what he is "bleeding" to stay alive. If he was to awaken, his "power consumption" would rise and we just don't know how he would cover it. Maybe he requires magic to be at a high level in order to awaken. We know similar concepts from Shadowrun/Earthdawn. The real bad stuff does awaken only after the tide of magic has reached a certain height.

But magic in the world of Tyria hasn't been around for that long. Before the gods gave it to the humans, the magic users were few, the air was not really crackling with it. From that we can guess that when the ancient Dragons were awake the last time, they reached the point where their power requirements could no longer be sustained by the world. They may ascended to nearly unconquerable Titans, but at the cost of requiring an external power source. When the world failed to provide such a power source, they went into hibernation. In distributing magic among humans (and other sentient creatures? At least Abaddon did so!) the gods themselves might have created the basis for a reawakening of the Dragons. As the use of magic slowly spirals out of control, more magic is around and can be absorbed by these dragons, helping them to get ready. Especially the Undead Dragon of Orr is at the very spot an high power magic event took place.

This raises questions about Glint. When did she awaken? Supposedly she was made by the gods 3000 years ago to protect the world. But protect from what? How does a freshly created world need protection first? Was the world in not created by the gods, but merely "recolonized"? Did they just create all life a second time after the ancient dragons went to sleep after leaving a wasteland? And did the gods leave Glint to protect life from the ancient Dragons? What if the gods are from Tyria themselves and recolonized it after the ancient Dragons destroyed it in ancient times? GW does know the concept of plane travel, the gods could have avoided annihilation at the cost of sacrificing their world. Did they create life so it could take revenge on the ancient Dragons someday? They are immortal, they got other timelines when it comes to taking revenge, and from the GW2 lore preview we already know that the gods and the ancient dragons have a similar power level.

La Jaffa
20-01-2008, 16:13
Maybe the dragons where here when the gods came to tyria
and they wanted to create an similar type dragon to fight by there side to defeat the dragons and so was glint ''born'' but the it wasnt what they expected and glint is an weaker version of a ancient dragon..

FourthVariety
20-01-2008, 17:01
Weaker in a direct confrontation maybe, but let's not forget that she once had the Forgotten at her disposal and the other sentient races also like to do her bidding. Her best weapon is the whole "predict the future" ability. The ancient dragons will have one hell of a time facing such an ability.

The official timeline goes back 12.000 years and hints that Tyria and Giganticus Lupicus existed even before. Official lore also suggests that life was created from scratch 3000 B.E. with Glint as the guardian of creation. I think the gods knew what was lying dormant and chose Glints ability in such a fashion that the ancient Dragons (clearly outdating the gods' creation) were hit in a weak spot.

We also have to notive the weird fact that the gods "activated" magic and soon after left. Did they know magic would awaken the ancient dragons? Did they choose to only watch from a distance?

La Jaffa
20-01-2008, 17:17
I Rather have total destruction with youre breath then seeing in the future and then see that youre gonne be crispy baked by one of the other dragons >.>
and the forgotten could have guarded some of the dragons, maybe the serpents are in orr because its very close to the desert..
and there is a dragon.

FourthVariety
20-01-2008, 17:29
If you take the total destruction approach with your primal attack, then you will run into Dragonball-like problems. You will never know if your full frontal assault will not be countered with a stronger full frontal assault.

If I knew the future, however, I would be able to avoid your full frontal attack every single time (Because I know when you are going to attack me from where). I even knew how you would react to a certain action. You'd loose not because you aren't powerful enough, but because you are no longer able to strike at your target.

The Forgotten were specifically created to be Glint's first army, nobody's else.

La Jaffa
21-01-2008, 18:48
Ya but if you dodge the atack the future is changed and then all things could happen because i dont thin k you see the future in less then 1 min when the dragons atacks again

Bookah boy
21-01-2008, 23:29
I would have thought the gods created a glint as a smaller, living, 'memorial' of the Anciemt Dragons.

Back to Drakkar, I have been assuming that he was never there in the first place anyway. I'm guessing he got blasted down into the earth, and while he was trying to recover, Dhuum froze him like the dirty trickster he was, essentially creating a huge ice 'crater' out of the small valley, causing any trees near the surface to be frozen instantly, with only the parts sticking out being green and healthy.

But hey, maybe Anet wil say that a wizard did do it, lol.

Oh and La Jaffa, i think the idea of the dragons being here before the gods arrived, as why would the gods want to create something that would have a chance to overthrow them.

I have an odd sounding theory as to why the charr have become how they are (or were, it seems). 'grothmar' was already there when the charr arrived. You don't think the charr got a bit too curious and were corrupted by its power? Who knows, eh?

La Jaffa
22-01-2008, 17:35
I would have thought the gods created a glint as a smaller, living, 'memorial' of the Anciemt Dragons.

Back to Drakkar, I have been assuming that he was never there in the first place anyway. I'm guessing he got blasted down into the earth, and while he was trying to recover, Dhuum froze him like the dirty trickster he was, essentially creating a huge ice 'crater' out of the small valley, causing any trees near the surface to be frozen instantly, with only the parts sticking out being green and healthy.

But hey, maybe Anet wil say that a wizard did do it, lol.

Oh and La Jaffa, i think the idea of the dragons being here before the gods arrived, as why would the gods want to create something that would have a chance to overthrow them.

I have an odd sounding theory as to why the charr have become how they are (or were, it seems). 'grothmar' was already there when the charr arrived. You don't think the charr got a bit too curious and were corrupted by its power? Who knows, eh?

About the charr, they where Called by the titans to fight the human nations.
and About drakkar, Dhuum wasnt the god of ice and water back then
that was abbadon

Skyy High
22-01-2008, 18:52
Dhuum was ice, Abaddon was water.

Gmr Leon
22-01-2008, 21:11
Also to mention, the Titans just gave the Charr the power to charge through Ascalon. Honestly, with or without the Titans, I suspect they would still wage war with humans. As a matter of fact..That is the case, they're still fighting with humans with a few exceptions in GW2.

Bookah boy
24-01-2008, 15:05
Sorry about that guys >.< forgot about those pesky titans. They seem shcokingly inferior at the moment ;)

Derked
27-01-2008, 21:48
I think that FourthVariety makes many good points in his add. But if the gods knew about the dragons, maybe they know that they cannot stop them? Because the article said that the gods are taking little interest in the affairs of mortals. More than answering their prayers, maybe they want revenge but can't avenge their fallen bretheren or something. Because they are too weak, if the dragons showed a unified front, because it feels like they are more igonring each other, maybe they could chrush the gods. So that's maybe why humans, charr, asura, norn and sylvari have to fight against the dragons. The dragons don't see the mortal races as a threat, but they see the gods as one. But i like the thougth that the gods are the survivors of some ancient race who fought the dragons, but wasn't strong enough. The gods realized that they had to create something that could defeat them and they created various races, that together could defeat the dragons.

Bookah boy
27-01-2008, 21:54
I think really the dragons just see all the races of tyria as stubborn vermin really then...

Karuro
28-01-2008, 09:05
I think really the dragons just see all the races of tyria as stubborn vermin really then...
Vermin who killed a Dragon's General.
It's highly possible that at least Primordus will keep an eye on us, as he knows what we're capable of if he did remember what happened to the Great Destroyer.

La Jaffa
28-01-2008, 13:45
we destroyed a god who could kill 2 Gods...
Why cant we kill a pesky dragon?

Derked
28-01-2008, 17:30
But back to the original thread why do the dragons sleep? I believe in the environmental change theory. Or that the dragons had no food if they need eat of course.

La Jaffa
28-01-2008, 18:37
and just like bears go into hibernate, but they had to eat much before it could go to sleep for 10 0000 years

Bookah boy
29-01-2008, 22:18
I still think the old gods imprisoned them, or at least one of them. The dragons were on tyria before the old gods even showed up, so maybe they were peaceful then? Maybe the old gods were really nasty and mean and imprisoned them anyway? They must be annoyed now and probably vengeful too.

La Jaffa
30-01-2008, 13:42
no, it stated that the dragons where destruction and all of that, i dont think they where peacefull

Bookah boy
30-01-2008, 21:16
I've had an idea that maybe the dragons don't like each other. The Movement of the World never exactly states that they are allied, but somehow Primordus awakens all the other dragons. Maybe Primordus somehow 'bonded' the dragons to him? Sorry for coming up with these crack-pot theorys BTW, but its fun =P

FourthVariety
31-01-2008, 01:12
Our definition of god is out of focus. In the context of our upbringing a god is this monotheistic all-powerful juggernaut. The five gods are different. For one, they are a bunch of hypocrites. They say, they take no interest in the realm of the mortals, yet they are mortal themselves. Or at least vulnerable. Whatever position they occupy in the grand scheme of things, seems not to be untouchable. Grenth kicked Dhuum, Menzies tries to kick Balthazaar, Kormir replaced Abaddon. It's a fricking merry-go-round, a free for all apotheosis contest! Definitely not what we expect from gods in RL. They are not untouchable, that WILL have an impact on what choices they make.

So let's not refer to them as gods, because a Tyrian lowlevel guard is closer to being a god of Tyria, than a common inhabitant of New York is close to being the Christian god.

Gods of Tyria are more like "very powerful beings" who have mastered to take into their control the power to regulate certain aspects of reality. Imagine me being in control of gravity. Instead of being a constant it would do what I want it to do. Such is the power of the gods in GW.

Ultimately everything came from the mists as the manual suggests (We really need to know more about Asuran Eternal Alchemy). Even the gods came from the mists. So the mists gave birth to a lot of random things ranging in power from "pretty powerful" God or Dragon, down to "srsly, wtf Razah". The difference between him and Melandru is that Melandru mastered the art of creating other life from the mists, while Razah was only imbued with talking the kind of pseudo-philosophical gibberish that one would only expect from a teenager smoking too much pot.

If we know one thing about Dragons from the GW2 lore, than it is the fact that they are the masters of corruption. All those nice sentences about Dragons flying over areas devastating them with their presence. Sounds familiar? Look at that. In the great mind map of evil, it all comes down to what I call the "day of corruption". Everything was nice (maybe some thing already pretty rotten if this passage is accurate (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jadoth)) and easy on Tyria, but then Jadoth gained magic from the hands of Abaddon. Which corrupted both of them and the Margonites went collectively bonkers. The other gods were able to contain, but were not in a position to save their buddy Abaddon (Serious dent in their almighty routine). The gods had internal quarrels before, but this special corruption continues until today. Whatever got to Abaddon this day must have scared the hell out of the other gods. Although they refined the magic system, they left never to be seen again. Too soon for it to be a coincident. Most likely to a place they think is safe from the corruption that got one of them and part of their creation on Tyria 1800 years ago.

At which point my earlier mentioned piece of the puzzle falls into place. The gods might have created all life on Tyria, they did not create the planet itself. Triggering magic might triggered something dormant there. The GW world was built on the graveyard of something awful. Magic brought it back to life.

If Magic was needed to trigger the awakening and magic wasn't present on Tyria before, then you have your reason why the Dragons lay dormant. They ran out of power after their last big conflict. All assuming that the initial burst of magic surrounding Jadoth triggered the first Dragon activity which was to corrupt Abaddon. Maybe the Dragon just had that flicker of power for a moment and decided to corrupt this powerful Abaddon entity near him so he could in return cause more magic to be distributed for the Dragon to feed on; ultimately fully raising the Dragon from the slumber. That's pretty scary and definitely scary enough so that five gods collectively think it would be a good idea to leave Tyria right around that time.

All negative events since then can be traced back to Abaddon and all of them include the element of corruption, that one element GW2 Dragons are so good at. The one element people would not expect from a god of secrets and water that took part in the creation of life on Tyria. Which would in turn make humans more powerful than the five gods in fighting this corruption. Kormir was the only one able to stop Abaddon corruption and restore him. If the Dragons are also a force of the same type of corruption then sentien life on Tyria might turn out to be a pretty neat weapon of the gods after all. Lazy bastards.

La Jaffa
31-01-2008, 08:26
So, what youre saying is that abbadon, the dude who knows evry secret, knew of the Dragons and there magic, and just needed an exuse to wake them ...
and i will look at the Asuran Eternal Alchemy, it interested me for quite a while, all the asuran culture interests me.

FourthVariety
31-01-2008, 11:16
I would say Abaddon did not know the Dragons were there. For all we know the gods could have come into existence after the Dragons decided to take a nap. Sure, he is the god of secrets, but he is in no way all knowing or all mighty. PLUS we know the gods did not create the Dragons.

Even if the gods might have known something, they surely did not know enough. From the Lore we know that Abaddon went crazy around the same time a was giving out magic. Those who gained magic from him were soon to follow. Before that, Abaddon lived in harmony with the other five gods, so the question is what changed him? Particularly: What changed him that could not be reversed by the other gods? If the stories are true then all Abaddon did was trying to help some of his worshippers seeking protection from another of the god's creation gone bad. The Forgotten. Something is not working according to their plans at all. Corruption of something beautiful is the concept we see at work every single time. Since the GW2 Dragons are experts at that I say it's probably their fault to begin with.

The gods are mighty, but they are far from all-mighty. They do not stand unchallenged. The ultimate force of the GW universe is still the mists. They are the source of everything, so if six gods can just spring from them, then I guess six dragons could as well. The highest tier of ying and yang style powerhouses. Both sides create other life to fight their battles. I say we axe 'em both.

Derked
31-01-2008, 20:45
But magic seems to have existed before Abbadon went mad, if he went mad maybe he just wanted more power than the other gods. Beacuse it seems like the Margonites followed him. They don't seem corrupted, because you are actually taking a quest from one of them in the Realm Of Torment. Look at this part of Melandrus scriptures from 48 BE.

Then saith Ewan, leader of the tribe, "Know ye our ways. Whosoever does magic in this tribe shall be put to death."

It's from 48 BE so then magic existed and yet the gods didn't leave. Somaybe the dragons didn't corrupt Abbadon. But their awakening might still have something with magic to do. Its a very good idea.

Gmr Leon
31-01-2008, 21:38
That's a good point actually, the 48 BE part..Very good indeed, but it doesn't undermine FourthVariety's ideas. In fact..It may explain the length of the Margonite War. I'll elaborate on this in a moment, currently I'm occupying the temp computer.

Blast. As it would turn out, it seems their definition of magic back then was simply a sleight of hand or simply illusions. I was hoping that 48 BE was correct as that would give more time for the Margonite Wars which would have worked out better than it lasting a brief 1 year span.

ShadowReapr
31-01-2008, 23:35
I'm calling continuity error, but whatever. :P

I'd like to challenge the idea that Abaddon went crazy. I don't think he did - rather, self-preservation kicked in when the other Gods came after him (perhaps true insanity set in later on, mind. Realm of Torment and all). Is it explicitly said that back then, Abaddon was bad? As I understood it, he just made the mistake of giving magic to power-hungry races (ie, all of them) and the other gods were all 'gtfo' and he was all 'no wai'. Loosely put.

FourthVariety
01-02-2008, 07:50
Timeline nitpicking:



Jadoth
"And thus was magic gifted to Jadoth, chosen of Abaddon, the first of the Margonites.

-- Scriptures of Abaddon, 1BE "

Only says that the scripture is from 1BE, not the events told in the scripture. Since the scripture talks of the past, Jadoth might have been given magic before 1BE.


Sara:
Of all here, you saw the beauty behind the illusion. And you alone shall be blessed with My gifts."

-- Scriptures of Lyssa: 45 BE

Lyssa blessing individuals with magic strongly indicates again that some individuals got magic early.


Ewan:
Then saith Ewan, leader of the tribe, "Know ye our ways. Whosoever does magic in this tribe shall be put to death."

Saith She, "I am Melandru, the Mother of earth and nature. Henceforth I bind ye to these lands. When they suffer, so shall ye suffer."

-- Scriptures of Melandru: 48 BE

Again, Ewan AND Melandru make a point NOT TO USE MAGIC. It's basically proof that magic is around longer than the year of the exodus.


Unknown Army
And then did release from His sword a hundred thousand flames, which encircled the soldiers. For this was the fire of courage, and forthwith did they follow the god into battle without fear or hesitation. Thence was the enemy struck down.

-- Scriptures of Balthazar: 48 BE
Balthazar sure did not waste time throwing around a lot of magic here.


Desmina
"I am your god. Follow where I lead, come whence I call, and the rotted corpses of the dead will be yours to control." And swearing allegiance in life and beyond, did Desmina thence become the god's first follower.

-- Scriptures of Grenth: 48 BE
Desmina also got magic early on.


Doric:
"For I am your goddess, and I will give blessings to all who follow these teachings."

-- Scriptures of Dwayna: 115 BE
This took place more than 115 years before the creation of the bloodstones with Doric's blood. He sure was old.




In the grand scheme of things, all gods handed out magic to some people here and there. The Margonites were the last if anything. The important thing is that in the year of the exodus, the gods gave magic TO EACH AND EVERYONE and that might have been the mistake. Earlier I only blamed Abaddon, but it seems that Melandru was onto something when she banned magic. After all, magic lead only to war and misery so far. If you look around where magic is used in the world of GW, then it is exclusively for combat. Even healing is combat related. You don't see people use magic to feed people or use magic to terraform regions, or use magic to create housing etc. It's pretty much a combat ability only.

Sidenot on the gods:
The gods were allies and while they might have to deal with usurpers here and there, the gods did not turn on each other. Which makes Abaddon really the strangest of the bunch. First he lived in peace with the others, then he suddenly turned on them. He went from good to evil, a very interesting mystery about his life if you *** me.

Harjubal od Uo
01-02-2008, 20:12
It's extremely likely that Abaddon did know all about the dragons and, probably, even when they were supposed to awaken. That's the explanation for why he tried to bring Nightfall before he was fully ready; he was racing against the Awakening-clock to try to free himself and gain control over the world before the dragons woke and he would have to face some serious competition.

For those more inclined to see Abaddon as less of the selfish type, it might also be that he was racing to get out of Torment in order to help kill the dragons before they awoke and destroyed the world, and Nightfall was the only means he had at his disposal of breaking his chains in Torment.

Either way, unless we fall back on the, "Oh, he was just crazy," explanation, the only reason for Abaddon to have moved when he was so obviously still unprepared was to try to get into position on Tyria before the dragons returned.

Gmr Leon
02-02-2008, 00:00
I'm not sure I'd really fully back any of those thoughts Harjubal, but if anything I think you may be on to something. He may have been trying to release himself to take over or to help kill the dragons.

Also, FourthVariety, nice catches on those tidbits of magic, I never particularly thought of those as magic at first glance. Probably desensitized to it after being exposed to magic in just about RPG, medieval action/adventure games..

So perhaps we should start another thread to discuss the permeation of magic in Tyria? At least that way we won't drag..Well, it actually is on topic..If it gets out of hand I'll make another thread, but otherwise let's continue to discuss it here.

Derked
02-02-2008, 08:27
Maybe if we put it this way, the decision to give magic to the races of Tyria was long planned. Abbadon had his own plans, and say he wanted dominance, he wanted to be a supreme god. But the gods was stronger than he thought. In some months Abbadon was deafeated. The bloodstones was forged and the gods left Tyria.

The races of Tyria continue to use magic, and the dragons power batteries are getting recharged. And maybe, this is just long shot, the dragons needs the bloodstones. With the bloodstones reforged, all four kinds of magic could once again be controlled by one person. And for a creature with the immnense power the dragons control, well it would be a huge advantage to a already huge advantage. :smiley:

La Jaffa
02-02-2008, 09:20
Couldnt it be that the dragons are the aspects of the bloodstones?
The bloodstones all have diferent magic, the dragons 2

FourthVariety
02-02-2008, 12:50
The bloodstones were created by the gods, the dragons were not created by the gods. It's very unlikely that both are linked directly. The dragons sure would love to control them though. The bloodstones affect EVERY magic user on Tyria in the way of restricting the use of all types magic. Would be interesting to know if the bloodstones also could restrict the Dragons in that way.

Derked
03-02-2008, 08:27
If they do the dragons would be weakend. And they wouldn't understand what makes them weakend. Well if that's the case, the races of Tyria have one small advantage. But i have found one thing in the article, the dragons are born of different unfathomable magic. If tha's the case the bloodstones might be useless.

mocax
03-02-2008, 12:22
"Magic" is a generalization of things miraculous.
Magic could be like the Force, the god's way of harnessing this power is possibly different from the dragon's.
The gods merely sealed away the means to tap into this power from mortals.

If the dragons chose to, they may bestow their own brand of magic to worshipers. Svanir could have accidentally touched the power.

Bookah boy
03-02-2008, 23:06
But do the dragons HAVE worshippers,mocax? Probably not. I'm guessing people like Svannir would unwillingly serve them (or one of them) after being corrupted-or maybe it is only drakkar that does that. Maybe all they all have varying degree's of corruption, think about it, 'grothmar' corrupts all he flys above, the deep sea dragon 'corrupts' all the bodys of water in tyria into tentacled horrors, you could say Primordus corrputs stone by turning it into destroyers. Though thats just my idea.

FourthVariety
04-02-2008, 08:19
It remains to be seen how 'coordinated' these Dragons act. The destroyers were not a very dangerous threat in themselves. They were many, but that's it. Before anybody could strike a worshiping deal with a dragon, he would need to know how not to get corrupted by its presence. We also do not know any of their goals or motivation. Other than that they are there in GW2 is not known. Dragons do neither have a coordinated plan (as of yet), nor do they seem to attack each other. They just wake up, take control of the surroundings and then the expansion stops again.

Seems to me as if the Dragons had a rough idea of how to build an army after they woke up, but some ran out of new material and resources. The Orr Dragon can only resurrect so many corpses. He runs out, his expansion stops. Primordus on the other hand.....

mocax
04-02-2008, 14:29
Corrupted government officials do worship money, no? :D

It's possible for mortals to get "indoctrinated" by "dragon-awe", people who think they're still in control when they aren't.

Bookah boy
06-02-2008, 23:03
If this is true, mocax,about 'dragon-awe' why wouldn't the dragons fly over the last human kindgom? Or maybe Ebonhawke (last remaining human fortress against the charr) ? Much remains to be seen.

Derked
11-02-2008, 09:59
It seems like this tred is running out of things to talk. Well i have one last subject, it was published by my old friend Ib Raven. He said: What if the dragons and the gods are bonded together. Like two sides of the same coin.

But i wonder why would they have separated, the gods didn't know of the dragons, so that's a weird theory. But what if the dragons and gods in some way debonded to survive, and forgot that the other part existed. And now they are unhappy. But they don't know why. If the gods and dragons would be well rebonded maybe they would be balanced. What if Abbadon sensed that something was missing, (this is a long shot) but he didn't know what. And that drove him mad. I know this theory have many flaws and i hope you can develop it.

mocax
11-02-2008, 13:55
The Dark Crystal?

So when Abaddon died, a dragon might have perished. Sending alarm bells across dragonkind.

Or when Abaddon's replacement took over, a new dragon is created, triggering the awakening of the other dragons.

Goddess of Truth ~> Glint the prophet?

Derked
11-02-2008, 15:23
The Dark Crystal? What is that? It is some weird fantasy movie right.

Derked
11-02-2008, 16:12
A new dragon created, maybe, it's a good idea, but it is not Glint because she's been around longer than Kormir has been a god.

Nanashi
11-02-2008, 17:48
The Dark Crystal?

So when Abaddon died, a dragon might have perished. Sending alarm bells across dragonkind.

Or when Abaddon's replacement took over, a new dragon is created, triggering the awakening of the other dragons.

Goddess of Truth ~> Glint the prophet?

I don't know... I think GW:EN allowing us to expand our terrain is more of a possibility of these dragons awakening rather than Abaddon's fall. In other words, our curiosity while exploring new lands is getting the best of us and causing us to locate and possibly influence the awakening of these beasts. Like Jora and her brother for instance found the Drakkar by accident as her brother was just looking for the ultimate hunt causing them to explore certain areas maybe not touched before.

La Jaffa
12-02-2008, 12:06
The norn has been to drakkar lake, they have a little village there, Sifhalla.
but they Didnt came close to Drakkar lake because there was a ''mysterious'' Something there. (Drakkar The Dragon ...)

Bookah boy
16-02-2008, 23:45
Obivously they wouldn't go to close to it because possibly some of their own had been corrupted by Drakkar or something along those lines, or maybe they just sensed some malevolent force around it.