Lolwutway

[Tsai Cooper]

Just messign around when i made this, but i'm trying to make a place for my thumpagon baby.
credits to Auron(gwiki and pvxwiki sysop) for the Me/Mo build(atleast, i think he made it)
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j88/dark0805/lolwutway.jpg

the first melee is a P/W. the idea is that he can keep the SoD(ffs blockwars) monk on the ground 1/2 of the time, and fully maintain daze on him. PS is used just cuz its a second cover condition, leaving only the enemy BSurge as a possible way to lose the daze.
the smiting build is Me/Mo, buffs the warriors and has powerful anti hex/condits and interrupts.
the rest is essentially cookiecutter.

[woot im a warrior]

How are you going to keep their monk knocked down when you will be spending 90% of the time trying to catch up to him?

[Tsai Cooper]

not entirely sure. tbh i'm thinking i need a snare in there somewhere, but nothing comes to mind. basically, all thats needed is one bash and the monk starts goind down a slippery slope.
once the daze with double cover is on, hes faced with running for his lifeand trying to monk through it. (as soon as he attempts a non RoF speed spell, he's interrupted and pretty much on the ground again). even if its all drawn then the ele(IF the other team has bsurge) is totally vulnerable, especially if the job is being done by Ddagger and leech signet to neautrilize WaM

[Drec Sutal]

Right. I have to say that a KD every 3 hits is pretty awesome. But there are two problems.

First - a hammer bash gives you 2 seconds KD. No stonefist for a paragon primary. Combine this with the fact that both hammer bash and awe have a 3/4 second aftercast and you'll find that it is literally impossible to get off awe and an attack skill on the foe you just KD'd.

Second - Read the hammer bash description again. You lose all adren. That means you'll have to hit the target with your hammer twice before you can use PS on him. So even if the KD was 4 seconds, you wouldn't be able to use this combo. The best you could even theoretically do would be to have earthbind add a second to your KD and use irresistible blow... which of course only adds one condition. And to restate, you can't even do *that* with a 2 second KD.

Honestly you're better off with a standard hammer warrior.

Now lets look at your buffer. You have a Me/Mo, you've said. This character could be combined with the runner. You'd lose pretty much ancestors' rage and Signet of Removal. Now, hex removal isn't really an issue except against a full-out hex team and there aren't that many running around these days. Your blind-bot should be able to handle blind removal. Anyway, this frees up your runner for a more splittable character.

The other problem is that you have no shutdown. What are you going to do against wards, aegis, guardian, and so on protecting the SoD monk, even assuming you can effectively shut down SoD with a hammer? Most teams have a mes and/or ranger for that. I'm afraid you would probably get torn apart by a standard balance.

[Tsai Cooper]

First - a hammer bash gives you 2 seconds KD. No stonefist for a paragon primary. Combine this with the fact that both hammer bash and awe have a 3/4 second aftercast and you'll find that it is literally impossible to get off awe and an attack skill on the foe you just KD'd.

gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Aftercast

Second - Read the hammer bash description again. You lose all adren. That means you'll have to hit the target with your hammer twice before you can use PS on him. So even if the KD was 4 seconds, you wouldn't be able to use this combo. The best you could even theoretically do would be to have earthbind add a second to your KD and use irresistible blow... which of course only adds one condition. And to restate, you can't even do *that* with a 2 second KD.
i'm amazed i didnt catch the adren thing. thanks.
switch to crushing, but there goes weakness >.<

Anyway, this frees up your runner for a more splittable character.

Rt/A pwns face splitting

The other problem is that you have no shutdown. What are you going to do against wards, aegis, guardian, and so on protecting the SoD monk, even assuming you can effectively shut down SoD with a hammer? Most teams have a mes and/or ranger for that. I'm afraid you would probably get torn apart by a standard balance.

MoD towards Aegis, guardian is somethign that as far as i know isnt run much
wards are easyeasy interupt, especially since the warriors interrupt is not subject to blind. as such, the ele can think he's safe casting the ward and the warriors shoves it in his face.

thanks for opinions, i knew this build wasnt amazing, but its a pretty thought over thing.
i disgree on the mesmer merge

[Ace Bear]

Use a Dev Hammer and a E-surge Dom Mesmer. Never ever bring these builds up again.

[Tsai Cooper]

Use a Dev Hammer and a E-surge Dom Mesmer. Never ever bring these builds up again.

lolwut
eventhough i agree
the p/w is such a gimmick, but i tried to make it work:undecided:
i still think the memser owns face, though

[ekiru]

Use a Dev Hammer and a E-surge Dom Mesmer. Never ever bring these builds up again.

Wait, what do Me/Mo smiters have to do with dom mesmers?

[kongkingx]

Nothing new. Just like the other "balanced" builds.

[Drec Sutal]

gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Aftercast


Wow, you're right. No aftercast, per-se, on hammer blow. But it takes time to use an attack skill.

Please next time actually go out and *try* to see if you can actually *do* a combo. I just did try it. You *can not* get off awe and an attack skill in the two second KD from hammer bash on a P/W. You're going to have to give up on the P/W gimmic.

Always try builds *somewhere* before using them. You should really try out *new* builds before even posting them... your original P/W build didn't work for two seperate reasons.

[Tsai Cooper]

Wow, you're right. No aftercast, per-se, on hammer blow. But it takes time to use an attack skill.

Please next time actually go out and *try* to see if you can actually *do* a combo. I just did try it. You *can not* get off awe and an attack skill in the two second KD from hammer bash on a P/W. You're going to have to give up on the P/W gimmic.

Always try builds *somewhere* before using them. You should really try out *new* builds before even posting them... your original P/W build didn't work for two seperate reasons.

sadly i can only actually play on weekends
so any caveats on account of lack of ig testing, is, inevitable :sad:

[Willian Sunspeare]

I've played a version of the P/W with spear swipe and crip slash. It works well. I can't imagine why a hammer P/W wouldn't work.

[David Holtzman]

I've played a version of the P/W with spear swipe and crip slash. It works well. I can't imagine why a hammer P/W wouldn't work.

The only reason thumpers get away with using a hammer is that they have massively increased attack speed and movement, plus they get a pet to punch you in the face at the same time. Otherwise, a hammer warrior is far more effectice than any gimmicky pretender.

[Willian Sunspeare]

The only reason thumpers get away with using a hammer is that they have massively increased attack speed and movement, plus they get a pet to punch you in the face at the same time. Otherwise, a hammer warrior is far more effectice than any gimmicky pretender.

Different purposes. P/W hammer has more armor than a thumper, has a better IAS than a warrior primary, and can use shouts to move around a lot. Plus, spear swipe.

But then this is all theorycrafting, and I'm pretty sure a hammer warrior is more pressure than a hammer paragon, but the hammer paragon comes with a few perks, like spear swipe, aggressive, and shouts.

[David Holtzman]

Different purposes. P/W hammer has more armor than a thumper, has a better IAS than a warrior primary, and can use shouts to move around a lot. Plus, spear swipe.

More armor against physical. A P/W with no WY! has 90base when using a hammer. A Thumper has 100 against elemental. Still, the main problem is that to be as good as a warrior a paragon needs to take all sorts of extra skills. Thumpers do too, but they can get away with it because those extra skills give amazing advantages. Anyways, the P/W ends up having to use so many extra skills to just be as good as a warrior without skills, than when you add the warrior skills in a P/W just can't keep up. Things like Spear Swipe are nice, but unless they're covered with something (why rangers make such great dazers) that daze is just dismissed.

[Willian Sunspeare]

Things like Spear Swipe are nice, but unless they're covered with something (why rangers make such great dazers) that daze is just dismissed.

True. I overlooked this part. I think this is why the P/W crip slash would work better for these purposes than a hammer P/W, since you can easily cover your daze with bleeding, crip, and maybe a deep wound.

[Akirai Annuvil]

What was the Crip Slash build?
Spear Swipe, CS, Gash, Aggressive Refrain, GftE!/WY, Rush, Heal Sig, Sig of Return/Res Sig or something?

[David Holtzman]

True. I overlooked this part. I think this is why the P/W crip slash would work better for these purposes than a hammer P/W, since you can easily cover your daze with bleeding, crip, and maybe a deep wound.

Well, you're still ending up with a badly gimped warrior. Daze is nice, but frontliners really just aren't in a position to apply it. A sword P/W is taking an already low damage weapon and reducing that by not taking any strength or runes. The build wouldn't really do anything. It can cause daze, possibly covered, but is that really worth the fairly low damage numbers and lack of any real utility?

[Willian Sunspeare]

Well, you're still ending up with a badly gimped warrior. Daze is nice, but frontliners really just aren't in a position to apply it. A sword P/W is taking an already low damage weapon and reducing that by not taking any strength or runes. The build wouldn't really do anything. It can cause daze, possibly covered, but is that really worth the fairly low damage numbers and lack of any real utility?

mmm, not neccesarily lacking of any real utility. Yes, it's less pressure than a warrior, but I think the ability to have constant IAS, the ability to stack shouts and Fallback, and daze on demand make the P/W at least worth looking at. The fact that you can run a partywide run buff on him, or putting a shield's up! or WTY, for example, helps compact your build.

In essense, the P/W has constant IAS, can run faster, can piggyback party-wide defense, and put down daze on demand at the cost of heavier pressure. Is the trade off worth it? I think it can be with the right build.

[David Holtzman]

The only real test is, well, a real test. I doubt seriously that the build will prove effective, but you may as well try it.

[Tsai Cooper]

willian, unless you actually like this build, theres no need for you to defend it. i made it on a whim for fun, theres much, much better to be had out there.

[Willian Sunspeare]

willian, unless you actually like this build, theres no need for you to defend it. i made it on a whim for fun, theres much, much better to be had out there.

No, I actually ran a similar P/W build in a scrim and ended up pleasently surprised.