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Yue
19-10-2007, 07:26
W/D: Rush, Bull's Strike, Eviscerate, Executioners, Rending Touch, Distracting Strike, Frenzy, Rez Sig

W/Rt: Rush, Bull's Strike, Eviscerate, Executioners, Enraging Charge, Distracting Strike, Frenzy, Death Pact Signet

P/Me: Vicious Attack, Cruel Spear, Power Spike, Web of Disruption, Go for the eyes, anthem of flame, Aggressive refrain, rez sig

Me/rt: Esurge, Eburn, Power Leak, Power Drain, Diversion, Drain Enchant, Shatter/mirror, Death Pact Signet/flesh of my flesh

R/Mo: Apply Poison, Crippling Shot, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Troll Unguent, Mending Touch, Natural Stride, Rez Sig

Monk
Monk
Flagger

Alternate Mesmer Template: glyph w/ ward against melee
Alternate Warrior Template: Devhammer w/ death pact signet
alternate Paragon Template: replace power spike and web w/ power return and mirror of disenchant

Monstrum
19-10-2007, 07:52
i think ud be better off with a more reliable interrupt on one of your wars- disrupting dagger, power spike, whatever. that way the mesmer can take glyph/ward and help ease a lot of pressure.

other than that looks pretty good, if everyone catches on and starts playing offensively it will definitely be a pleasant change from the current 5 layers of defence-bring 20 interrupts to catch all their passive defenses-meta

David Holtzman
19-10-2007, 08:35
I admit to finding it amusing that you are giving DF advice on builds.

Hey Yue, you know what's really cool? Setting up free two-for-one shots on your soft targets. Put flesh on the mesmer and be less bad.

Yue
19-10-2007, 10:43
At least they're good builds.

And DPS>flesh. Just don't be bad and you won't need to suffer the consequences of DPS.

Besides, there's nothing comparable to rezzing someone at full energy to complete a push.

Monstrum
19-10-2007, 10:53
I admit to finding it amusing that you are giving DF advice on builds.

oh im sorry, i mistook this for a public forum, guess i must've clicked somewhere between the "elitist attitude" and "arrogant know it all a-hole" sub-forums

David Holtzman
19-10-2007, 11:00
At least they're good builds.

Wasn't talking to you mr.


And DPS>flesh. Just don't be bad and you won't need to suffer the consequences of DPS.

The enemy has two full minutes to set up a kill on a DPed target in a build with no defense. This is a strategy I'd like all my enemies to adopt.


Besides, there's nothing comparable to rezzing someone at full energy to complete a push.

I'm not saying DPS doesn't have a place in a build, I'm saying that using it for your only hardrez can act against you in very serious ways. And, if you're already in a position where you can swap out on an additional hardrez, you should probably do it. Full on offense wins ladders, but playing smart wins tournies. Well, that and the enemy team err7ing.

************************************************** ********


oh im sorry, i mistook this for a public forum, guess i must've clicked somewhere between the "elitist attitude" and "arrogant know it all a-hole" sub-forums

I didn't say you couldn't post, I said I found it amusing. If you can't take criticism I recommend you stay away from... well, everything really, but competitive gaming especially. And if you can't take a joke, well, the forum censors the rest but I'm sure you've heard the phrase.

Wet One
19-10-2007, 20:31
P/Me: Vicious Attack, Cruel Spear, Power Spike, Web of Disruption, Go for the eyes, anthem of flame, Aggressive refrain, rez sig



I ****ING HATE paragons with 2 interupts who know how to use them... Its super ghay! lol...

I think this is what you guys were running when we played you a couple days ago, it was a lot of pressure.

PS i think for Isoway you need to have 'Help Me!' on that para LOL

smrandom
19-10-2007, 23:03
Let's assume your team is not as good as [DF] (a stretch, I know :wink:), what is your opinion of using Resurrection Chant on the Mesmer instead of either Flesh of My Flesh or DPS as a hard rez? What I mean to ask is whether teams playing at a lower level against mostly lower level opponents should bring Res Chant because it provides them with a larger margin for error than does FoMF or DPS?

Yes, I understand that I could be less bad. In the interim, however, does it make sense to take a skill that may help you to blow up slower?

David Holtzman
19-10-2007, 23:34
Let's assume your team is not as good as [DF] (a stretch, I know :wink:), what is your opinion of using Resurrection Chant on the Mesmer instead of either Flesh of My Flesh or DPS as a hard rez? What I mean to ask is whether teams playing at a lower level against mostly lower level opponents should bring Res Chant because it provides them with a larger margin for error than does FoMF or DPS?

On the contrary, Flesh is the safest hardrez you can use in one slot (Gsac is safer in general, but that's it). It has a very fast cast, faster even than a rez sig. And, with no recharge you can afford to take the inevitable pleak or pdrain on it. With reschant you basically have to hope the enemy isn't watching, because one interrupt on you and you'll be forced to click a sig.

Yue
20-10-2007, 03:55
Yeah. Rez chant is a pretty liability at this point. You'll almost never get it off, and it's energy cost and recharge make it very undesirable when compared to flesh. Like david mentioned, Flesh is only 5 energy, fast cast, and has no recharge. Very cancel spammable, and your energy doesn't get totally screwed if you get interrupted on it.

-edit- And yeah, I thought u were talking to me about the advice, not monstrum. In this case though, in his defense, the warrior bars are almost never static. You can sub in various templates for the warriors depending on preference and opponent.

glorentson
13-11-2007, 03:31
Looks Good. Im always glad to see new builds coming out. Def. Something to try from the current meta. Would be interesting to see more offensive Teams coming out to play:cool:

Ryuujinx
17-11-2007, 04:48
W/D: Rush, Bull's Strike, Eviscerate, Executioners, Rending Touch, Distracting Strike, Frenzy, Rez Sig

W/Rt: Rush, Bull's Strike, Eviscerate, Executioners, Enraging Charge, Distracting Strike, Frenzy, Death Pact Signet

P/Me: Vicious Attack, Cruel Spear, Power Spike, Web of Disruption, Go for the eyes, anthem of flame, Aggressive refrain, rez sig

Me/rt: Esurge, Eburn, Power Leak, Power Drain, Diversion, Drain Enchant, Shatter/mirror, Death Pact Signet/flesh of my flesh

R/Mo: Apply Poison, Crippling Shot, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Troll Unguent, Mending Touch, Natural Stride, Rez Sig

Monk
Monk
Flagger

Alternate Mesmer Template: glyph w/ ward against melee
Alternate Warrior Template: Devhammer w/ death pact signet
alternate Paragon Template: replace power spike and web w/ power return and mirror of disenchant

Very nice, only one question:



P/Me: Vicious Attack, Cruel Spear, Power Spike, Web of Disruption, Go for the eyes, anthem of flame, Aggressive refrain, rez sig
WHy not p.leak? Isn't killing some energy better then dealing a bit of damage?

Yue
17-11-2007, 05:30
Pleak is very expensive at 10e, and it's worth it unless you spec enough dom into it for it to do a decent amount of edenial. Otherwise, you might as well go with a cheaper interrupt such as pspike. That way, you can maintain a 15/9/12 attribute spec without sacrificing any points in spear mastery for domination magic.

The interrupt isn't there to do damage or edenial, it's there as an unblockable, reliable interrupt (which you would normally use against mesmers).

Ryuujinx
17-11-2007, 06:26
Pleak is very expensive at 10e, and it's worth it unless you spec enough dom into it for it to do a decent amount of edenial. Otherwise, you might as well go with a cheaper interrupt such as pspike. That way, you can maintain a 15/9/12 attribute spec without sacrificing any points in spear mastery for domination magic.

The interrupt isn't there to do damage or edenial, it's there as an unblockable, reliable interrupt (which you would normally use against mesmers).

Lol. didn't notice the 10e vs 5e. glanced at both looked at recharge and went "Huh?"

I feel stupid now. :blush:

Yue
19-11-2007, 16:59
np. happens to everyone.

Tsai Cooper
20-11-2007, 14:51
The enemy has two full minutes to set up a kill on a DPed target in a build with no defense. This is a strategy I'd like all my enemies to adopt.
i agree, but yue is right on its functionality. he's being daring putting it on a axe warrior, though. anything that frenzylocks(wtb ineptitude) dies too fast for dps. hammer warrior with flail is safer.

@rest of build:
just a quick thing:anthem of weakness>flame? shorther duration makes agrefrain have a better chance of staying up if your not paying attention(i.e. out of combat), and weakness izgud, no? cripshot on the warrior would essentially neuter him with weakness on there as well.

David Holtzman
21-11-2007, 02:30
i agree, but yue is right on its functionality. he's being daring putting it on a axe warrior, though. anything that frenzylocks(wtb ineptitude) dies too fast for dps. hammer warrior with flail is safer.


Death Pact has nice functionality, but I've gotten plenty of doublekills on DF because of it. I like Death Pact in builds with an extra layer of defense. In a high offense build I'm just not convinced it's better than flesh.

Yue
21-11-2007, 03:46
One of the problems is you can't even fit flesh into the build. The mesmer runs a ward, so unless you plan on fleshing with a warrior, it's simply not feasible. Also, flesh is terrible to use on a monk, and forces you to play defensive to recover. DPS allows instant recovery and lets you continue a push, so it's actually better for high offense.

Also, double kills don't change the fact that victory is always on my screen :P

Drec Sutal
21-11-2007, 06:16
One of the problems is you can't even fit flesh into the build. The mesmer runs a ward, so unless you plan on fleshing with a warrior, it's simply not feasible. Also, flesh is terrible to use on a monk, and forces you to play defensive to recover. DPS allows instant recovery and lets you continue a push, so it's actually better for high offense.

Also, double kills don't change the fact that victory is always on my screen :P

The problem with DPS is that it takes a bit of skill to use. Honestly, most teams end up using it poorly (hey, lets DPS the mesmer who's body is now in the enemy backline when I'm at half health myself!)... and if you don't use it well, it frankly sucks. Flesh is pretty unambiguous in terms of use and if worst comes to worst and the person you just resed dies again... well it has 0 recharge and only costs 5e. Try again.

But if you're actually good about using it and your monks can keep prot up... well your choice is either 2 people end up at half health with every hard res or both people end up dead only when you screw up. If you can keep the newly resed person up for 2 minutes more then half the time, DPS signet comes up better.

David Holtzman
21-11-2007, 07:00
One of the problems is you can't even fit flesh into the build. The mesmer runs a ward, so unless you plan on fleshing with a warrior, it's simply not feasible. Also, flesh is terrible to use on a monk, and forces you to play defensive to recover. DPS allows instant recovery and lets you continue a push, so it's actually better for high offense.

DPS is a high gamble skill. Yes it can give you that extra edge when rezzing up a monk with full energy, but it can also hurt a lot if they, say, doubleshot your warriors. I do recognize the problem with having no available other hardrez options though.



Also, double kills don't change the fact that victory is always on my screen :P

Meh, DF is about 100x more practiced than we are. It's no surprise you win, but that doesn't make your skill selection good.

Tsai Cooper
21-11-2007, 14:21
Death Pact has nice functionality, but I've gotten plenty of doublekills on DF because of it. I like Death Pact in builds with an extra layer of defense. In a high offense build I'm just not convinced it's better than flesh.

thats the catch22 of dps. put it an offensive build(as yue agrees) to make pressure spectacular. this is at the cost of very dangerous double kill scenario.

whereas, putting it in a hedgehog build helps prevent the double kill scenario, but, by natue of a defencive build, theres no point at all to running dps. needless danger is stupid in hedgehogs.



and did no one notice i described dps wrong in my post? i (due mainly because i rarely have used it) thought that the skill worked as:when the RESSER dies, ressee dies as well, not other way around. which is why i said yue was being daring(frenzylocked ineptitude at VoD when the warrior is dpser in my description. gg.). but regardless, dps is daring no matter what.

exjeh
21-11-2007, 14:25
Well some people just can play with useless skills because they use it frequently or enjoy playing it :). I saw PnH running with a glyph of energy + gale warrior, is that a bad combo ? in most people their eye's yeah , but they got a lot of presure on the opposing teams with a so called bad skill selection.( and if u would run that build i'm pretty sure u would have done aswell :p)

(this post is at david btw)

shawn
21-11-2007, 14:41
David's opinion will surely change now that he's faced with such irrefutable evidence!


....

Tsai Cooper
21-11-2007, 14:52
David's opinion will surely change now that he's faced with such irrefutable evidence!


....

qft.






12 characters

David Holtzman
21-11-2007, 21:49
Well some people just can play with useless skills because they use it frequently or enjoy playing it :)

Is there something about optimization that confuses you?

raspberry jam
22-11-2007, 01:40
The problem with DPS is that it takes a bit of skill to use. Honestly, most teams end up using it poorly (hey, lets DPS the mesmer who's body is now in the enemy backline when I'm at half health myself!)... and if you don't use it well, it frankly sucks.But when you do use it well, it doesn't suck.

asxtc
29-11-2007, 17:24
Damn...never have managed to use that DPS thangy correctly...does this mean i suck?

Tsai Cooper
29-11-2007, 20:28
Damn...never have managed to use that DPS thangy correctly...does this mean i suck?

not necessarily. if you are consistently ressing "mesmers halfway in the enemy backline", then yes, you might suck. but if your team is not saying anything, they suck too.