Why should I not ping my bar? [Archive]

Eric Blair

11-11-2007, 17:39

Yesterday while waiting for a game to start, I pinged my build and asked the rest of the PUG to do likewise. Then, this one person said "don't ping bars". I whispered him "why" and that nasty little puke said "if you play ab you would know why......lol".

When I asked him to elaborate he said "ab is about skill not skill temp.....gg" which I can only assume means that "it's how you play your bar, not what skill template you play". He would not explain any more after that; I can only assume that using "gg" in conversation is the retarded child's way of saying "I am finished with this argument which I believe I have won. Good day to you."

At any rate, this is not the first time that I've encountered that attitude. Can someone out there please explain why some people feel the need to hide their skill bars from their team mates?

Supreme Commander

11-11-2007, 17:54

they think their builds are gonne be stolen... that's one I've heard a couple of times.

liamSlayer

11-11-2007, 19:28

they think their builds are gonne be stolen... that's one I've heard a couple of times.

agreed, had this many times

this 1 guy spring to mind, the convo was something like this (he was assassin)

Me: ping your bar please.
Person: no
Me: Why?
Person: because i made it, and i dont want it stolen
Me: Most buids good builds are done allready you know......
Person: not this one, it has shadow prison, and a warrior attack speed boast
Me: mmmmm has it got (forgot the skills)
Person: OMG!!!! HACKER!!! you can see my bar!!!
Me: lol, thats the standard shadow prison buidl of Pvxbuilds
Person: NO ITS NOT!!! I MADE IT TODAY!!!!!!!!
Me: lol what ever you say
Person: C*** su**ing Mother******* B*******
*kicked*

xD

shardfenix

11-11-2007, 20:07

Guild Wars is 90% skillbar, 10% skill. That's why so many terrible players/guilds are in the top 100.

raspberry jam

11-11-2007, 23:04

ab is about skillHahahhahahahahahahahah

On topic, anyone who feels the need to hide his skillbar either realizes that he has an awful bar and fears getting kicked, or thinks he has some kind of super skillbar that one one else knows about. In the first case he's usually right, in the second he's usually wrong.

Lytel

11-11-2007, 23:05

They have a rubbish skill bar and don't want to get kicked.

Kendel

11-11-2007, 23:25

There is no reason not to ping... people who don't are those that just can't justify why they're running such a skill.

Yesterday i was in AB against a Warrior/Monk running at least 5 smiting skills (posted in the hilarious builds thread). Obviously he was never asked to ping it or he'd of been kicked instantly. And in the same match i came across a Ranger who for some reason was running Watchful Healing... a divine favour spell... if he'd of pinged i'd of asked him to change that.

People who don't ping are almost always trying to hide something. At least in pugs. As such i'd rather kick them and get another pug who IS willing to ping his build. Frankly i don't care if your build isn't taken directly off the wiki... i've never used the damn thing, chances are a build i end up with is similar thanks to observing GvG or it just looks right. But a build with no real logic behind why your running that or why your running it on that profession will get you kicked just as easily as refusing to ping it will. The difference is the latter will hopefully get through to people who will figure out there build is ****.

That and its nice to know they're not screwing up your own bar. Especially as i've had many a pug when i decided to play SoR Bonder who figured it would be a great idea to add in Pious Haste or some similar skill before we started and **** over my bonding AND my prot skills.

Eric Blair

12-11-2007, 01:28

I want to thank all of you for confirming my suspicions. I always thought they were hiding something bad, but some part of me was worried that I was missing some form of AB etiquette. But no, they're just dumb jerks.

agreed, had this many times

this 1 guy spring to mind, the convo was something like this (he was assassin)

Me: ping your bar please.
Person: no
Me: Why?
Person: because i made it, and i dont want it stolen
Me: Most buids good builds are done allready you know......
Person: not this one, it has shadow prison, and a warrior attack speed boast
Me: mmmmm has it got (forgot the skills)
Person: OMG!!!! HACKER!!! you can see my bar!!!
Me: lol, thats the standard shadow prison buidl of Pvxbuilds
Person: NO ITS NOT!!! I MADE IT TODAY!!!!!!!!
Me: lol what ever you say
Person: C*** su**ing Mother******* B*******
*kicked*

xD

I laughed hard at that.

The Harlequin

13-11-2007, 17:26

When I asked him to elaborate he said "ab is about skill not skill temp.....gg" which I can only assume means that "it's how you play your bar, not what skill template you play". He would not explain any more after that; I can only assume that using "gg" in conversation is the retarded child's way of saying "I am finished with this argument which I believe I have won. Good day to you."
Kinda prissy for just AB, but childrens are everywhere in this game.

dralith

13-11-2007, 17:51

agreed, had this many times

this 1 guy spring to mind, the convo was something like this (he was assassin)

Me: ping your bar please.
Person: no
Me: Why?
Person: because i made it, and i dont want it stolen
Me: Most buids good builds are done allready you know......
Person: not this one, it has shadow prison, and a warrior attack speed boast
Me: mmmmm has it got (forgot the skills)
Person: OMG!!!! HACKER!!! you can see my bar!!!
Me: lol, thats the standard shadow prison buidl of Pvxbuilds
Person: NO ITS NOT!!! I MADE IT TODAY!!!!!!!!
Me: lol what ever you say
Person: C*** su**ing Mother******* B*******
*kicked*

xD

ZOMG HAX! :grin:
That's hilarious.

David Holtzman

13-11-2007, 19:15

If you do not ping your bar you do not party with David. I have better things to do than waste my time with incompetents.

chirthain

23-11-2007, 18:47

If you do not ping your bar you do not party with chirthain. I have better things to do than waste my time with incompetents.

Hell, yeah. And I noticed that people have a hard time pinging their freaking builds..

Mister Smartypants

23-11-2007, 19:35

chirthain

23-11-2007, 20:05

The build pinging I sort of understand, almost. This, however, I completely do not get: I joined an AB PuG and said "Hi" and got told to shut up. I then said "?" and then the abuse (yes, I do mean abuse, not just a bit of name-calling) started. I mean, WTF?!?!?!

Every game has morons.

It's mostly:

Nana Lucy: Hi
Nana Lucy: [SKILLBAR]
The rest: Hey
Nana Lucy: Can you guys ping your build please?
*No respons*

Blegh.

Alaris

23-11-2007, 20:21

Guild Wars is 90% skillbar, 10% skill. That's why so many terrible players/guilds are in the top 100.

Apples and oranges.

I can think of situations where bar > skill, and other situations where skill > bar. For example, there are cases where proper pulling and aggro management will make the difference, whereas in other cases having the proper skills will make the difference.

As for people not pinging their builds, usually it's because they don't want it stolen. I suspect also that some of them want to avoid skill discrimination, i.e. where PUG leaders insist on players bringing specific builds.

I think both are valid concerns to a minor extent, but generally it's far more important to coordinate skills between players.

Kendel

23-11-2007, 23:01

[QUOTE]As for people not pinging their builds, usually it's because they don't want it stolen. I suspect also that some of them want to avoid skill discrimination, i.e. where PUG leaders insist on players bringing specific builds.

Lol... people can steal a build by just watching what you use. Its not as if you can hide that. People who actually think that is a valid reason for not pinging are egotistical and/or insecure. I've still yet to see 1 of these pug leaders that demand specific builds in AB. The most i've ever done is ask to change to a skill or 2, mainly because they removed enchantments while i was playing SoR Bonder.

The problem is there are still some arseholes around who don't change it for the good of the team!

Ugly Betty

23-11-2007, 23:32

in HA i automatically ping my bar the moment i join. when HA'n with friends it's SOP. in AB i ping it when asked. i don't consider AB organized PvP. and it's rare (at least during the TZ i play in) that anyone in the group actually understands the nuances of a particular build. but there are exceptions.

raspberry jam

23-11-2007, 23:56

As for people not pinging their builds, usually it's because they don't want it stolen.See this is just stupid. Players should realize: especially in PvP, no one wants to steal your build - because in 99.99% of cases, either it's already well known, or it sucks.

Wuzzman

24-11-2007, 01:42

Lol. People that don't ping there bar have craptastic builds and are craptastic players at that. Boot anyone if you can who doesn't ping if asked.

djacob

03-12-2007, 20:23

I don't ping my bar because it is leet! Pve skills ftw!!! Also, I love using skill caps to get elites in ab, hehe. Throw in mending, frenzy, and heal sig and you have one awesome build! Make sure you are using a monk though although people will know that you are using the sweet wammo build. Just don't let anyone in the game know I use this please, they'd finally understand why I'm so pro. ;D

...anyway, yeah pinging skill bars is never a bad idea except for bad players.

Baze

04-12-2007, 07:52

Me: ping your bar please.
Person: no
Me: Why?
Person: because i made it, and i dont want it stolen
Me: Most buids good builds are done allready you know......
Person: not this one, it has shadow prison, and a warrior attack speed boast
Me: mmmmm has it got (forgot the skills)
Person: OMG!!!! HACKER!!! you can see my bar!!!
Me: lol, thats the standard shadow prison buidl of Pvxbuilds
Person: NO ITS NOT!!! I MADE IT TODAY!!!!!!!!
Me: lol what ever you say
Person: C*** su**ing Mother******* B*******
*kicked*
My assassin runs a more or less unique build. (not any more, lots of sins run similar).
When I met an assassin and took him down in Aspenwood, I used to whisper him my build afterwards so that he knew some other builds he could try out.
If a build is so effective that you try to hide it, then I get very worried.

Wol Fenrook

14-12-2007, 21:16

There is no good reason not to be willing to share the build you are using with your team mates, it could well be (as in the removing enchants example) that your uber build is gonna mess the entire team up. As to hiding your uber build to keep it yours, odds are if it is that good somebody else has already discovered it and posted it up somewhere.

Can't say I have ever come across anybody who refused to ping when asked.

Wol

Silicon Based

17-12-2007, 11:50

On the other hand, why would you want to see a team mates build at all in AB??

Is this to 'approve' the build and kick him/her if you dont like the build?
This is what I see sometimes but who are you to claim 'expertise' or 'right of judgement' on anothers build?

Hey, AB is merely a fun arena where people also can try and experiment with build ideas, sometimes without other people giving their opinion on what they want to try.

I use AB many times just to try something new, non-PVX builds and see if it has a potential, and I sometimes also do not want to share the build I have with others. Not because I fear it will be stolen, but just to avoid being judged or kicked because im not running a pvx build or because the team leader feels he/she should demonstrate his power to kick / not kick.

So I do understand those people that do not want to ping for whatever reason. Besides, the build you run isn't everything, people can mess up totally on AB if they dont know what it is about, even if they have the 'right' build equiped. Solution would be to argument why you want to see a particular build or at least give constructive comments on a build but rarely a reason to kick. And should you meet the totaly impossible build, then probably you have met a first time AB player or so. Still no reason to kick in my opinion, also veterans were noob AB players once. Give'em a chance and try to be constructive.

I do have examples were a 'Friend of the Kurzicks' behaved rather arrogant on some team members (who had a much higher kurzick rank, and therefore had some experience with AB) when they pinged their builds and he was telling them how to change their builds and he would kick them if they didn't, reason enough to leave the team.

Wol Fenrook

17-12-2007, 12:30

You've never had a team mate who decided to run a completely stupid bar then Silicon? Like one that contains PvE only skills that will not work, alongside a nice signet of capture.....

I like to see team mates build for a few of reasons:-

1) So that if needed I can modify my own build in order to achieve greater synergy.
2) To make sure that if they have anything like PvE skills or signets of capture we can give them a heads up that these are useless in AB.
3) So that the team leader can spot if they are a suicider, as in they are gonna stand at the start point continuously sacrificing themselves to death.

3 Very good reasons to want to see your team members builds, none of them so that if you don't like their build they get booted. I will team with people with any build, so long as it isn't really really stupid (2 and 3), once. If their build proves to be totally stupid I just don't team with them again whilst they are stubbornly using the same one, as they have already proven that both their build and their skill is wanting. I can't be the only one who at some point has had a banana scythe weilding A/D on their team who's build relies on sycthe mastery skills? You know, the one who announces that their build is fantastic, and that they are masters of AB, then die the very first shrine, but still insist that their build rocks and it's their teams fault they died. :P

Wol

Zalis

18-12-2007, 18:59

A Flourish/Dagger W/A on my team refused to ping his bar. He claimed that he wanted credit since it "wasn't on the wiki".

I tried to let him know he's better off with a W/A or W/X build that allows him higher than 12 weapon attribute. (aside from the fact that no build is a real secret) It's not like I was saying he was dumb, or that he had no clue what he was doing. I just wanted to see his skills. The damage he did seemed "ok" and to come quickly, but it left him vulnerable and easy to shut down, IMO. (lack of healsig left him slow to recup health after a cap, etc)

He still refused to ping, but I wasn't complaining as long as we won. (Kurzicks were awful that morning anyway)

Liselle Morrow

21-12-2007, 13:02

I don't see any reason not to ping my build or for other people to do the same, but I'm generally not the person to initiate build calling for any reason, as I don't find it indicative of someone's skill. Some people can have completely run of the mill builds while having no clue whatsoever on how to run them. A good build is useless if you don't know how to play.

The only thing that sometimes bothers me is when other people start build discriminating against a build that works and has nothing wrong with it aside from being fitted to personal preference. I once got invited into a team in AB on my Sin - and I currently run a squishy killing Beguiling Haze build of my own adaptation - and when I was asked to ping my build and did so, they started making jokes about it and acting all downgrading. One of them said, you'd never beat me 1v1 with that - which coming from a Warrior I found to be rather stupid, considering it was blaringly obvious I was running an anti-spellcaster build. So I explained that was not the point of my build and they started the timer. Once in AB they turned out to be completely terrible and I went "Oh brother" as they rushed off straight into the Luxon mob wielding their Torment shields and /ranking away as they died...

It's almost enough to make me leave any team that ever again has a problem with my build (not as in asking me to run something else but just giving negative comments without reason)

raspberry jam

21-12-2007, 15:13

If a build is so effective that you try to hide it, then I get very worried.The thing is, usually the only person who thinks it's effective is the person trying to hide it.

BlueHeaven

21-12-2007, 15:28

Ate of DK

21-12-2007, 15:39

People who are afraid that their builds are stolen have never heard that you can see whatever they cast/use? Rofl. It's the lamest excuse for being afraid that their bars suck and they get kicked. And you'd be kicked more likely afterwards without knowing why instead of pinging and listen to suggestions. No, maybe their pride gets hurt. But more likely they get laughed at by opponents when they kill them the 7th time.

Check wikiPvX for common used builds, farm builds of any kind.
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

seamussheridan

21-12-2007, 18:14

djacob

22-12-2007, 06:49

Its AB for heaven's sake. The only time I will ever kick anyone from an AB team is if they are being abusive. It is fun to see what builds people are playing. AB is really the free for all anything goes PvP.

People should just ping the bars so we know.

Exactly. Had a ranger come into our team once, and the other ranger on our team asked him to ping his build, merely wanted to know about synergy I'm guessing, the guy wasn't even the leader. At this point the new ranger to the team starts this tirade about how he doesn't ping his build and how his title should show us that he knows how to play ab (he was like rank 4 I think). The leader replied that we had not looked at his title, but regardless builds aren't what get people kicked from our group, attitudes do. He didn't stop his hissy-fit and was kicked from our group.

Reverse Vision

22-12-2007, 07:08

chirthain

02-01-2008, 11:36

Personally I'm ok with all kinds of skillbars except bad ones.
When I do AB with my irl and guild mates (using vent) I really don't want a monk that cant do their job while we do our thing. But if we're looking for some other prof their skill set doesn't matter much as long as they can follow our team and have a gg.

I've found that when I bring my pve w/mo to ab I almost never get invited and when I do PuGs almost immediatly cancel their inv just because they see my pve armor >.> (15k wammo hauberk + rest kurzick). I refuse to change my second profession because it has nothing to do with my skillz and skills :(

Most wammo's are tanks, and tanks are utterly useless in any form of PvP, so don't whine if you're a W/Mo and refuse to change your second profession, even when it has nothing to do with your skills.

If I'm the leader, I always ask everyone to ping their builds, and if they don't, I kick them. Simple. And if their build isn't working, I kick them too.

Juiced

02-01-2008, 16:27

Most wammo's are tanks, and tanks are utterly useless in any form of PvP, so don't whine if you're a W/Mo and refuse to change your second profession, even when it has nothing to do with your skills.

If I'm the leader, I always ask everyone to ping their builds, and if they don't, I kick them. Simple. And if their build isn't working, I kick them too.
Nice attitude for someone who's asking a question in another thread.. :tongue:

I often ask people to ping their builds as well, if I see a healing circle minion master (or a 'better' minion master for that matter) I will let him or her stay in the party. Start the timer when everyone is ready, and explain why his/her build sucks during waiting. In a polite manner of course. See, there are only few who know everything about GW, there are loads of people who play a couple of hours a week, they have no clue about 'better' or more advanced builds. They go out with the build they used and the build that worked for them, they can either listen to my tips and become better, or ignore me and keep doing what they like to do.

If I see them screwing up really bad in battle, charging into mobs and alike, I will ask them to stick with me and at least act as extra cap pip. If they still ignore me there I will usually tell the person in question after battle our ways will part.

Anyways point being, I don't kick people for having sucky builds, I kick people for having sucky attitudes. I saw my very first screenshot the other day and it made me remember how I used to think it was godly (power shot, distracting shot, glyph of lesser energy, fireball, firestorm, troll unguent, aura of restoration). No one ever told me it sucked, and especially firestorm looked so nasty :grin:

Kendel

02-01-2008, 19:35

Anyways point being, I don't kick people for having sucky builds, I kick people for having sucky attitudes. I saw my very first screenshot the other day and it made me remember how I used to think it was godly (power shot, distracting shot, glyph of lesser energy, fireball, firestorm, troll unguent, aura of restoration). No one ever told me it sucked, and especially firestorm looked so nasty :grin:

Telling people is 1 thing...

Them actually listening is another.

Remember a few weeks ago, i joined a pug on 2/4. Our last pug was a Necro. He pinged his build... i don't need to say much more than he had NO Soul Reaping.
After telling him several times to add Soul Reaping... the leader asked if he wanted to MM.
30 seconds later he pings his MM build... not only did it suck it AGAIN had no Soul Reaping.

After a few minutes spent trying to inform him how useless his Necro builds were without SR, then another minute trying to get the leader to just kick him because he obviously had no idea how to play Necro... i just left and joined another team.

He pinged an average build with appauling stats. The leader didn't even seem to care about how utterly awful this build was.

There is a point where even people who say 'we don't kick people for bad builds' just begin to cause the rest of us to lose games for allowing some serious **** into AB.

Juiced

02-01-2008, 22:25

Telling people is 1 thing...

*snip*
Well in case he didn't listen to ur remarks about soul reaping, even after explaining to him what it is and why it is important, kicking is no big deal, he indeed might screw ur team and the other teams big time. If it happens I just tell them to read the skill (or attribute) descriptions for themselves outside my party.

But ur example is an extreme case, I won't have let the guy stay in my team either if he didn't change his SR attribute. If I let everyone ping their builds and health, and are supposed to kick everyone with not a decent build 75% of the people in AB outpost qualify for a kick. 400-475 health is common, pve characters with bad equipment for the builds as well.

chirthain

03-01-2008, 12:55

Well in case he didn't listen to ur remarks about soul reaping, even after explaining to him what it is and why it is important, kicking is no big deal, he indeed might screw ur team and the other teams big time. If it happens I just tell them to read the skill (or attribute) descriptions for themselves outside my party.

But ur example is an extreme case, I won't have let the guy stay in my team either if he didn't change his SR attribute. If I let everyone ping their builds and health, and are supposed to kick everyone with not a decent build 75% of the people in AB outpost qualify for a kick. 400-475 health is common, pve characters with bad equipment for the builds as well.

"A decent build" is a build that works. A build with some selfheal, and damage-output. That's it. I don't care if you're a E/Mo using Health Prayers, because it works. Not as good as a E/D, but it works. That's all I care about. But if I see a wammo joining my group, with more than 1 (Healing) Spell, I'll mostly whisper to the leader, or kick him myself.

Yesterday a wammo joined my team, and he called himself a "monk-warrior". He had about 3 healing spells, with WoH as elite.. I asked him how he was going to handle that with 20 energy and 2 energy degeneration, and he replied that he had 36 energy, and 2 energy degeneration, so I shouldn't worry about that. I kicked him immediately.

sequel

03-01-2008, 14:35

I wonder when pinging builds in pvp what you guys are looking for ? Is it for synergy reasons with your own builds or just sorting out what you yourself consider trash ?

Let me explain : In Pvp you don't know what you are up against, which skills the other team is gonna use, so any coherent build should be fine. Bringing unpopular skills shouldn't valid getting kicked either scince a good player can make the best out of it, even surprise the ennemy when using em at the right moment. I always thaught the crucial point to be that everyone can handle the build he brings, something you can't tell by just looking at his build before the match. In Pve things are a bit diffrent, we know what's ahead and everyone gets a very specific role to play in the team especially in places like slaver's exile. To take that example several professions run along only because of one or two skills required to complete the dungeon, which other skills they pack doesn't really matter but those few are vital for the team.

To sum it up, in pvp ( the rare occasions where i play alliance battles to rise my luxon title or get some keys ) i take a build that doesn't depend on others to work properly and has little chance to interfer with the builds of team-mates ( so no need for synergy either ). In pve i have my own favorite build when hero/henching or playing with guildies and several saved templates to match the requirements of specific domains where you have to team up with other players ( pug ). I ping my builds whenever asked but see more reason to this in pve than in pvp.

( I've heard of special team-builds in pvp but never seen em in alliance battles and kinda thaught that those where for guildies, well people that know each other and can work as a team. That of course would be another issue, but strictly speaking about pugs, kicking people goes for bad attitude, leeching, over-aggroing, immaturity. Those flaws can only be observed during a fight not beforehand based on their skill-bar. Granted i'll have to return to an outpost to kick em and loose some precious time, but that way i also get to witness/favor original builds ).

chirthain

03-01-2008, 17:49

I wonder when pinging builds in pvp what you guys are looking for ? Is it for synergy reasons with your own builds or just sorting out what you yourself consider trash ?
Something with damage-output and a decent selfheal. Ok, monks are an exception on the first.

Let me explain : In Pvp you don't know what you are up against, which skills the other team is gonna use, so any coherent build should be fine.
A wammo using Healing Prayers isn't good against anything. It sucks.

Bringing unpopular skills shouldn't valid getting kicked either scince a good player can make the best out of it, even surprise the ennemy when using em at the right moment. I always thaught the crucial point to be that everyone can handle the build he brings, something you can't tell by just looking at his build before the match.
As I said, as long as it works, it's ok. But sometimes things simply don't work. Bringing no selfheal doesn't surprise the enemy at all. Bringing Fire Storm as warrior surprises the enemy, and does about 10 damage per second. Wow!

In Pve things are a bit diffrent, we know what's ahead and everyone gets a very specific role to play in the team especially in places like slaver's exile. To take that example several professions run along only because of one or two skills required to complete the dungeon, which other skills they pack doesn't really matter but those few are vital for the team.
PvE can be done with every stupid build.

To sum it up, in pvp ( the rare occasions where i play alliance battles to rise my luxon title or get some keys ) i take a build that doesn't depend on others to work properly and has little chance to interfer with the builds of team-mates ( so no need for synergy either ). In pve i have my own favorite build when hero/henching or playing with guildies and several saved templates to match the requirements of specific domains where you have to team up with other players ( pug ). I ping my builds whenever asked but see more reason to this in pve than in pvp.
Duh, that's logical.

( I've heard of special team-builds in pvp but never seen em in alliance battles and kinda thaught that those where for guildies, well people that know each other and can work as a team. That of course would be another issue, but strictly speaking about pugs, kicking people goes for bad attitude, leeching, over-aggroing, immaturity. Those flaws can only be observed during a fight not beforehand based on their skill-bar. Granted i'll have to return to an outpost to kick em and loose some precious time, but that way i also get to witness/favor original builds ).

It's not like you need a "special team-build" in order to not to get kicked, you need a WORKING build...

Plus, I like orginal builds. And I hate wiki-builds. I rather make my own stuff, so if I see an orginal build that works, no problem. If I see an orginal build that DOESN'T work, then I'll kick.

Kendel

03-01-2008, 19:55

I wonder when pinging builds in pvp what you guys are looking for ?

I'm looking for builds that can work and stats that make the build usable. But do you honestly think you can try and tie peoples arguements in knots if you bring that up repeatadly? The build actually has to be GOOD. I'm not about to accept a Ranger in a pug for PvE OR AB who takes along Barrage several single target damage skills and a Prep. His build works, but 99% of the Ranger forum would agree that it sucks.

Is it for synergy reasons with your own builds

Maybe. When i played SoR Bonder i would either get the player to change Pious Haste or Meditation (or similar) or kick him. When your build realies on enchantments to heal people i'm not having someone on it using a skill that removes them because i dunno if they know how to use it properly.

That and if your sticking together you quite obviously don't want 2 Ranger in the team who both run Cripshot w/ Apply.

or just sorting out what you yourself consider trash ?

Does it matter what i consider trash? If you yourself can't justify why you are taking this 'trash' over another skill then you obviously have no reason to object with my choice of skill change.

Zalis

03-01-2008, 20:43

Yesterday a wammo joined my team, and he called himself a "monk-warrior". He had about 3 healing spells, with WoH as elite.. I asked him how he was going to handle that with 20 energy and 2 energy degeneration, and he replied that he had 36 energy, and 2 energy degeneration, so I shouldn't worry about that. I kicked him immediately.

I've got to say that I'd boot that too.

chirthain

07-01-2008, 15:53

I've got to say that I'd boot that too.

That's what I meant to say, yeah. xD ^^

Wuzzman

07-01-2008, 16:32

I gotta say. I can tell how smart a player is by looking at their bars. Experience and knowing what the **** I'm doing generally tells me when I'm looking at trash.

ibudgie

19-02-2008, 04:50

I never ping my bar in AB unless I am in a guild group where we are discussing build ideas on vent, if the PUG insists I just leave the group. It's not that I run any special secret bar, it's just that I think it's rude to ask in AB and you should just trust the player to bring an appropriate bar, especially if they are displaying a reasonable AB title. Likewise I never ask others to ping their bar. It's not like AB requires a balanced team like TA/HA/GvG, heck you could run a team of 4 Monks with no damage in AB and still cap shrines if you choose the ones with only NPC on them! AB is about battlefield awareness/position/capping not builds.

David Holtzman

19-02-2008, 13:17

I have a hard time seeing why it's rude that I want to know if you're a third nipple.

Akirai Annuvil

19-02-2008, 13:51

a reasonable AB title
There's an AB title track?

It's not like AB requires a balanced team like TA/HA/GvG, heck you could run a team of 4 Monks with no damage in AB and still cap shrines if you choose the ones with only NPC on them! AB is about battlefield awareness/position/capping not builds.
Alternatively, you can both practice your battlefield awareness and run good builds.

I don't get the third nipple comparison, but I don't see how it can be construed as an impolite question especially with so many terribad builds being run.

Rhadix

19-02-2008, 16:17

I ping my bar whenever I enter a group and I prefer to see everyone else's bar simply so I know how we are going to be playing.

The only time i ever really nag someone for a ping is when there's another ranger in the team so that I can run a complementary build. No point in 2 cripshots :)

Vela

19-02-2008, 18:28

AB is all about understanding when to cap and when to kill. I don't think pinging bar in AB makes a lot of difference as I never expect the person joining the group is looking for some hardcore pvp action, skill synergies and what not. 8/10 AB matches can be won by running in circles w/ a group while having some basic knowledge of the maps. And 2/10 will need some understanding of the maps, pressure tactics, usage of skills efficiently etc etc.

As I don't mind pinging builds and, in some cases, I can ask one to ping build; but, whenever I ask someone to ping build, I ping my build first and then ask. Seldom I had difficulties with that approach. While doing AB with PuGs, it's better to be happy with those 8/10 wins. If you are "critical" about the build your pug buddy is running, don't do ABs. You are a misfit there.

chirthain

20-02-2008, 14:49

Alternatively, you can both practice your battlefield awareness and run good builds.

:shocked:

Is it really possible to practice your battlefield awarenss AND run good builds?!
Oh, my. xD

Amadei

20-02-2008, 17:34

I think it's rude to ask in AB and you should just trust the player to bring an appropriate bar, especially if they are displaying a reasonable AB title.

Uh, have you seen some of the utter crap people bring to ABs? No self-heals, no elites, offensive professions with five heals and three crappy attack skills, rangers with four stances, Troll Unguent, Healing Breeze...? I should trust players with their bars? I can provide ample screenies of really, really bad stuff people will bring. I'll trust them about as far as I can throw 'em. When I play, the only people whose bar I trust are my guildies. I'm always pleasantly surprised when PUG members don't run terrible builds; shame it doesn't happen often.

And a high Kurz/Luxon rank does not, in fact, imply you're good at ABs. You can get a high rank by faction farming or just by hitting "Enter Battle" over and over again with your crap bar and hope the other eleven players can make up for you (general you) being bad.

Ugly Betty

20-02-2008, 22:47

And a high Kurz/Luxon rank does not, in fact, imply you're good at ABs. You can get a high rank by faction farming or just by hitting "Enter Battle" over and over again with your crap bar and hope the other eleven players can make up for you (general you) being bad.

it also doesn't imply you're good at PvP which is precisely what i think you're trying to get at. i ping my bar when asked - as a courtesy - no more no less. i don't understand the reason for people in AB asking for your bar when it is (as you have made clear) the luck of the draw when it comes to decent teammates/players. this randomness allows for an approximate 50% chance of winning unless you sync in with guildies.

raspberry jam

21-02-2008, 05:40

i don't understand the reason for people in AB asking for your barWell at least you can make sure that your 4-man subteam all have decent builds, no?

Ugly Betty

21-02-2008, 20:46

Well at least you can make sure that your 4-man subteam all have decent builds, no?

i agree and understand that and so do you but i think the overall majority of AB'rs don't. the PUGS i've been on either don't know a good build from a bad one and/or don't care. unfortunately it's usually the latter. in HA pinging your bar is mandatory in AB it's pffft. considering the randomness of winning in AB it's probably more frustrating than practical to do so.

i'm all for more structure and protocol in AB but the fact is it's a veritable lawless arena.

Amadei

22-02-2008, 09:25

the PUGS i've been on either don't know a good build from a bad one and/or don't care.

Well, ABs (and RA too) can be pretty forgiving. Someone goes in with a bad bar, let's say it's an ele with Flare and random crappy PBAoE skills and no elite or energy management (a bar I've actually seen more than once), but the other three players are pretty decent and the other teams vaguely sort of know what they're doing as well, leading to a win. This ele won't know his bar was absolutely terrible. This ele will likely also score a kill or two because the average ABer is really very bad -- they'll stand in Meteor Shower, attack through SS, don't know what half the enemy's skills do, will walk into the ele shrine unprotected, etc. So our hypothetical ele won't see any need to change his bar to something better because it's working for him.

I sometimes ask people to ping their bars so I can send them to our alliance chat for mocking, but then, I'm a terrible person.

BlueHeaven

22-02-2008, 21:05

Once in a while I'll go into RA with a gimick build that I know will prob be a complete mess, the first thing I'll do is ping my bar, and appoligize in advance :) Usually the wacky ones will work a couple rounds, but they are not well rounded and only work in good/optimal situations.

There are a lot of times in both PvE and PvP after someone pings their bar, and I try and give them suggestions they take it as an insult, which sucks cause really all your trying to do is give them the basics, like when they are running an Ele with no Attunmets with high energy skills, or flare on a warrior, or just plain bad skills that every profession has.

ibudgie

22-02-2008, 22:53

Well at least you can make sure that your 4-man subteam all have decent builds, no?What is a decent build for AB? The objective is capping shrines, you do that by having more people on the shrine than the enemy has. No fighting is required, just survival skills whilst you stand there and cap. Build is largely irrelevant, do not confuse AB with some other sort of PvP. The team that tries to cap a shrine that has an enemy team on it usually looses 7v4, so it's best to run straight to the next shrine.

Akirai Annuvil

22-02-2008, 23:38

The team that tries to cap a shrine that has an enemy team on it usually looses 7v4, so it's best to run straight to the next shrine.
I'm not the best player by far but even I can win from most ABers +3 lousy npcs.

No fighting is required, just survival skills whilst you stand there and cap.
Have fun with your dolyak signet.

Eric Blair

25-02-2008, 04:02

...

I don't get the third nipple comparison, but I don't see how it can be construed as an impolite question especially with so many terribad builds being run.

Third nipples are useless, ugly, out of place, and a terrible mar on an otherwise good body.

David's comparison is apt.

ibudgie

03-03-2008, 07:49

I'm not the best player by far but even I can win from most ABers +3 lousy npcs.

Have fun with your dolyak signet.

Dolyak sig is so out of date, it's Armor of Earth Ele's nowadays.

Offatwork

02-04-2008, 07:32

Can someone out there please explain why some people feel the need to hide their skill bars from their team mates?

Because they are terrible. Really. Terrible.

In response, get a group of friends together who know what they are doing tactically and know a bit of teamwork. Then just rickroll those freaks on the opposing team who just mob and get confused at the sight of people splitting. You'll win 5 rounds in a row, 500 to 50-100 guaranteed. I've done it yesterday.

Maybe then they will start to run competent builds. Or get frustrated and lose even more of their, what could be questioned, rational thought. Ether way, it's a win-win situation for you.

Offatwork

02-04-2008, 07:51

8/10 AB matches can be won by running in circles w/ a group while having some basic knowledge of the maps. And 2/10 will need some understanding of the maps, pressure tactics, usage of skills efficiently etc etc.

You get a faster rate of point collection by defeating a group of enemies than you would if you just keep on capping. This being said, would you rather win, no I'm sorry, dominate 5 consecutive games? Or occasionally win due to out-capping a team?

The former can be achieved with attuned tactical knowledge and especially teamwork. In fact, most common builds used (GOOD PvXWiki builds) are specifically designed to be the most efficient at what they do with the least amount of dependencies of the whole team. In short, GOOD PvX builds are GOOD.

I would rather dominate, murder, mutilate, hurt, maim, kill consecutive games in a row than just occasionally win some games by just cap cap caping.

Is it really possible to practice your battlefield awarenss AND run good builds?!

Absurd, isn't it? People destroying the competition in AB? NO WAI!

Kendel

02-04-2008, 17:22

In response, get a group of friends together who know what they are doing tactically and know a bit of teamwork. Then just rickroll those freaks on the opposing team who just mob and get confused at the sight of people splitting. You'll win 5 rounds in a row, 500 to 50-100 guaranteed. I've done it yesterday.

Right right. Because the actions of your team alone determines the outcome of an AB. How about you get down off your pedastal and stop stroking your e-peen? People who think that the reason they won several times in a row was upto them alone are pathetic. Unless you are facing truly terrible opponents who come out of their base in single file and die then you are so wrong. And in the circumstances of opponents been that bad practically anyone could win. The ability of your opponents and the competance of your allies matters so much more than your teams ability, especially in the far areas.

David Holtzman

02-04-2008, 19:35

Pretty sure my walking in with a team of four top ten GvGers has won us plenty of matches. Being able to fight and win a heavy mismatch is a huge asset.

Offatwork

03-04-2008, 08:06

Right right. Because the actions of your team alone determines the outcome of an AB.

Let me put it this way, my Ranger in AB can hold up against up to about 2 to 3 people at a shrine.

If I have a monk on my back, I can generally hold off 4 to 5 people.

Yes. I'm stroking my e-peen. I'm proud of it.

Guess what, I run a PvX Build called Cripshot. I guess I'm a noob for doing this. Haha! Hurt, maim, kill.

Lais Irideika

03-04-2008, 10:56

They have a rubbish skill bar and don't want to get kicked.

How about this though: you know your bar works fine, but you are afraid of the attitude that some of the players might have in demanding you bring X cookiecutter build? I know that when I am in a PUG, if people ask me to ping my build, I will do it, but there is always a moment when I cringe, holding my breath, hoping no one will ask me to change my set-up.

Edit: nevermind this post... AB is random, right?

Ringsgold

03-04-2008, 12:22

How about this though: you know your bar works fine, but you are afraid of the attitude that some of the players might have in demanding you bring X cookiecutter build? I know that when I am in a PUG, if people ask me to ping my build, I will do it, but there is always a moment when I cringe, holding my breath, hoping no one will ask me to change my set-up.

Edit: nevermind this post... AB is random, right?

I don't see why you'd be afraid to change you build? If you know it works ok, and someone suggests a change you should be able to figure out if it'll improve the build or if it won't. If it won't and you get kicked, just get a new team because the other one was bad. (this is assuming you know when a change will improve a build) If it does improve the build, yay! you now have a better build.

My tactic to AB teaming is spamming tab and the + button, then saying hi, pls ping builds. If there are bad ones, I ask them to change. if people don't ping, they get kicked. If they dont want to change the build (and I'm not asking for really good bars, decent is good enough for AB) they also get kicked. It usually takes about 45 seconds to find a team full of decent bars this way.
Also, when joining a team I always ping my build. Noone has ever kicked me for it, then again I use good builds, most of them are even on PvX(I went and checked)

David Holtzman

03-04-2008, 22:48

How about this though: you know your bar works fine, but you are afraid of the attitude that some of the players might have in demanding you bring X cookiecutter build?

I can pretty much tell within a second of looking at a build if it's any good in PvP. If someone thinks their bar works fine, I'm more likely to think that they just don't know what's going on (which is usually the case). This is why mending wammos think mending is good.

Kendel

04-04-2008, 10:12

Let me put it this way, my Ranger in AB can hold up against up to about 2 to 3 people at a shrine.

If I have a monk on my back, I can generally hold off 4 to 5 people.

Yes. I'm stroking my e-peen. I'm proud of it.

Guess what, I run a PvX Build called Cripshot. I guess I'm a noob for doing this. Haha! Hurt, maim, kill.

Sorry, 4-5 people with no common sense yes. If you say you can hold off 4-5 people with real builds then i'd say your full of crap. Not to mention it only takes those 4-5 people to move OVER the shrine and you can't do a damn thing to stop them capping it. I've held off many idiots (usually Eles) from a shrine with a BA build... mainly because they came at me in single file. Opponents that bad are going to lose no matter what. Your 12 opponents lack of ability is far more influencial in that situation than your 4 teams members ability.

Vela

04-04-2008, 13:30

How about you get down off your pedestal and stop stroking your e-peen? People who think that the reason they won several times in a row was up to them alone are pathetic..

QFT and QFH (Quoted for "hehe").

Fact is, you win ABs if you can quickly understand what the other two groups have the affinity to do. If you notice the other two like to storm the base or res shrine on a map, you are better off directing your team to handle other cap points. I understand there is a very little scope of organizing on a large scale the 12 ppl maneuvers, but, you can certainly influence it. That influence, if positive will reward you, otherwise, you will fail. You will see many times all of a sudden it feels like the teams are working in tandem while they were at a loss a moment earlier; it is simply because all the teams understood the situation and started influencing each other, compensating each other. So, at that time thinking you are winning it for the others in an otherwise lost match is grossly incorrect. There is a vast difference in influencing a battle and single-handedly winning the battle for the team; first one is practical and second one is absurd.

Pretty sure my walking in with a team of four top ten GvGers has won us plenty of matches. Being able to fight and win a heavy mismatch is a huge asset.

And I can guarantee you that having 4 top GvGers in an AB match in one team will NOT get you absolute wins if you can't positively influence and compensate the other teams actions and inactions. This notion is absolutely ridiculous. Only thing you will be able to do then in a failed match is rage and blame every other soul for that failure.

During last dbl points weekend myself and my guild-mate managed to get 550k+ factions each just by doing ABs in the evenings with PuGs. Many people from this forum have AB'd with me and I hope they had fun. I hardly get time to play these days but, I do enjoy some AB action now and then when I get a chance. What always amazed me at GW is that how some people manage to underrate others all the time.

Vela

04-04-2008, 13:44

You get a faster rate of point collection by defeating a group of enemies than you would if you just keep on capping. This being said, would you rather win, no I'm sorry, dominate 5 consecutive games? Or occasionally win due to out-capping a team?

The former can be achieved with attuned tactical knowledge and especially teamwork. In fact, most common builds used (GOOD PvXWiki builds) are specifically designed to be the most efficient at what they do with the least amount of dependencies of the whole team. In short, GOOD PvX builds are GOOD.

I would rather dominate, murder, mutilate, hurt, maim, kill consecutive games in a row than just occasionally win some games by just cap cap caping.

Absurd, isn't it? People destroying the competition in AB? NO WAI!

Your love of murder and mayhem has very little to do with winning AB matches. 8/10 matches are lost because of teams trying to kill the others w/o capping points and 8/10 matches are won because people have capped the points and then started outnumbering the opponents.

You can only dominate if you cap and kill and not the other way around. There is absolutely not a lot of benefit of killing when both teams have capped 3 shrines each but, there is a huge advantage in killing when you have capped 5 shrines. Anyhow, to ensure winning by killing you would require the whole team to synergize with your action, and in AB its hardly that case.

Let me put it this way, my Ranger in AB can hold up against up to about 2 to 3 people at a shrine.

If I have a monk on my back, I can generally hold off 4 to 5 people.

Yes. I'm stroking my e-peen. I'm proud of it.

There is a very high chance that 4-5 people will outcap the shrine from you and the monk protecting it and thereby switching the numbers to their favors. And thinking your build will simply do the trick is a joke, I hope.

No Offense, when I see a bunch of rangers and sins in the opposing team, I can pretty much guarantee an easy win in an AB match. And I am sure many ABers will have the same feeling.

raspberry jam

04-04-2008, 17:19

If I have a monk on my back, I can generally hold off 4 to 5 people.Because while you have a monk at your back, nobody gives a **** about you.

David Holtzman

04-04-2008, 18:27

And I can guarantee you that having 4 top GvGers in an AB match in one team will NOT get you absolute wins if you can't positively influence and compensate the other teams actions and inactions.

Your point is that if my 1/3 of the team is great but the other 2/3 fail miserably we'll be beaten by a team that has 100% good players? Wow, what an astonishing insight! Obviously one team of good players can't account for two teams of terrible players. That has absolutely no bearing on what I was saying, which is that a team of good players absolutely tips any balance and overcomes minor disadvantages significantly.

kaelyn the dove

04-04-2008, 19:08

Because while you have a monk at your back, nobody gives a **** about you.

Not necessarily true, about 2/5 of the teams will usually target the mending wammo first, another 2/5 of tards will all try to gank the monk and keep swinging at him, sb or guardian be damned. I've also been in countless situations when I became the primary target. . .mostly when I play migraine or bsurge.

Vela

05-04-2008, 01:22

Your point is that if my 1/3 of the team is great but the other 2/3 fail miserably we'll be beaten by a team that has 100% good players? Wow, what an astonishing insight! Obviously one team of good players can't account for two teams of terrible players. That has absolutely no bearing on what I was saying, which is that a team of good players absolutely tips any balance and overcomes minor disadvantages significantly.

David - you said:

Pretty sure my walking in with a team of four top ten GvGers has won us plenty of matches.^^^^^^^^^^^
I just responded to that statement. I read it as "David walking among mere tards". Is there any other way to interpret your statement? Independent skirmishes seldom win ABs, but, compensating other teams' actions do.

David Holtzman

05-04-2008, 04:15

I just responded to that statement. I read it as "David walking among mere tards". Is there any other way to interpret your statement? Independent skirmishes seldom win ABs, but, compensating other teams' actions do.

Uh, you could interpret it as what was, you know, there. That would be a good way. I said that walking in with a team of top GvGers wins games. And it does, because as I said "a team of good players absolutely tips any balance and overcomes minor disadvantages significantly." So, a set of 8 average ABers is heavily improved by a team of 4 top PvPers. That advantage can win plenty of games.

Kendel

05-04-2008, 06:32

Well yes... thats stating the bleeding obvious. If you've got a group of top10 GvGers wandering around an AB they are most likely going to win every 4v4 match-up and will probably suceed at 4v4 while over a shrine too. But the overall outcome of the AB is still in the hands of your 12 opponents and 8 allies. Just because your team can do the killing of 2 teams, doesn't mean it can also do the capping of 2 teams. If your opponents are better than your other 8 allies you will still most probably lose if you're in enemy territory. When it comes to your own territory and neutral ground 1 very good/organised team can easily influence a victory. Your allies/enemies will just determine how close a victory.

Vela

05-04-2008, 12:21

Well yes... thats stating the bleeding obvious. If you've got a group of top10 GvGers wandering around an AB they are most likely going to win every 4v4 match-up and will probably suceed at 4v4 while over a shrine too.

No Kendel....shhhh. It's not bleeding obvious, it's discerning intelligence....NOT! :wink: Seriously, I have lost AB matches because a group of folks decided to get involved in p@nis-fencing than in the actual match. And, unfortunately, by forum rules, I can't name names, they are some of the top GvGers too.

As I said in my earlier post, as long as I know some of the skills of my teammates, I feel quite comfortable going in and then after a match, it becomes quite obvious what they can do with their skillbars. Not a rocket science, you know.

HarbingersOfSkulls

05-04-2008, 23:36

If I'm running a typically found build from wiki, I'll ping my build with no problem. Although, if I'm running one particular build, then I won't ping it because it's something that I haven't seen used very often in AB's and I don't want to share it, and I've been using it for quite some time now.

HoS

Kendel

05-04-2008, 23:40

You do realise that saying 'i don't want people stealing my builds' is amongst the lamest reasons ever for not pinging a bar? I would just kick those people on principle. I have my own designed corrupt enchantments bar for AB... and i've pinged it when asked... curiously i haven't seen anyone else running it yet because THEY DON'T CARE!

Offatwork

06-04-2008, 04:55

Sorry, 4-5 people with no common sense yes. If you say you can hold off 4-5 people with real builds then i'd say your full of crap. Not to mention it only takes those 4-5 people to move OVER the shrine and you can't do a damn thing to stop them capping it.

I would say I was full of crap too if I was playing players with actual good builds. That's my point, though.

Regarding your second portion of text, let's do the math:

1) I'm slowing down their cap time, maybe even killing them in the process.

2) I'm holding 4-5 people at one shrine whereas there is only 2 people on my team of 12 defending the shrine.

Let's do the math now:

12-2 = 10 people capping

12-4~5 = 8~7 people capping

Remember that they have to drain our cap AND then recap it in their name. That is a lot of time to be lost if there is an opposing force there.

Why in the world would I want to LET them just take the shrine? I'm going to make it as difficult as possible for them to do so.

Interestingly enough, a lot of Warcraft 3's playstyle can be applied to AB:

Creep Harassment = Shrine Harassment.

Don't fight battles to the death you can't win.

**************

Mobbing is countered by capping the shrine that was just previously capped by the mob. Their numbers can't handle the maneuverability of an intelligent 4 man group.

Your 12 opponents lack of ability is far more influential in that situation than your 4 teams members ability.

If only 2 people can prevent/slow down capping of about 1/3 of the other team, maybe even stopping their cap and gaining faction points in the process, that would be pretty influential to match wins.

Capping does not create points more than killing does. I've fought plenty of battles in AB where our team only has two shrines capped and the opposing team has 5 shrines capped and we had an outstanding lead to the opposing team simply because they were considered fodder to our group of 4 Good players. Am I saying that all we did was defend our shrines? No. We fought intelligent battles. We drew players away from their shrines, removing their advantage, then killing them then capped their shrine. While we only fought others at our shrines.

Because while you have a monk at your back, nobody gives a **** about you.

Partly, but it's mainly because monks extend the life of shrines by ten fold. Balance is addressed all the way down to tiny details..

Kendel

06-04-2008, 11:46

Regarding your second portion of text, let's do the math:

1) I'm slowing down their cap time, maybe even killing them in the process.

2) I'm holding 4-5 people at one shrine whereas there is only 2 people on my team of 12 defending the shrine.

And? Obviously holding people off from a shrine is worth the effort, thats not what i'm saying. if your up against a team of 4 on your own/with a monk, all it takes is them to mob the NPCs who are too stupid to avoid AoE and stand over the shrine to cap it while they pick you apart. It slows down there recapping yes, but slows down your other 2 allies capping. Theres no real net gain. If you come up against people thinking they can solo recap there own shrines or cap in small teams then you will achieve something yes. That wasn't exactly debatable.

Capping does not create points more than killing does. I've fought plenty of battles in AB where our team only has two shrines capped and the opposing team has 5 shrines capped and we had an outstanding lead to the opposing team simply because they were considered fodder to our group of 4 Good players. Am I saying that all we did was defend our shrines? No. We fought intelligent battles. We drew players away from their shrines, removing their advantage, then killing them then capped their shrine. While we only fought others at our shrines.

You know in all my time ABing i've never seen a victory based on killing. Its crap like that loses battles. Personally i think your talking crap if you think been 3 shrines down you made up all those points by killing much faster than the opponents. And frankly the default position of many pugs is to just kill, an organised 'good' team would be concentrating on capping while the pugs wasted there time in an all out war. Maybe i'm just reading this wrong, but it looks like what your saying.

Partly, but it's mainly because monks extend the life of shrines by ten fold. Balance is addressed all the way down to tiny details..

Good ones yes. The bad ones tend to die before anything major happens. Though a good interrupter extends there life just as much.

raspberry jam

06-04-2008, 15:37

Not necessarily true, about 2/5 of the teams will usually target the mending wammo first, another 2/5 of tards will all try to gank the monk and keep swinging at him, sb or guardian be damned. I've also been in countless situations when I became the primary target. . .mostly when I play migraine or bsurge.You do realize that you just said that Riposte and Dolyak Signet are good ideas in PvP?

Offatwork

06-04-2008, 20:19

You know in all my time ABing i've never seen a victory based on killing. Its crap like that loses battles. Personally i think your talking crap if you think been 3 shrines down you made up all those points by killing much faster than the opponents.

I'm. Serious. I have won a multitude of games because we, as a group of four, kept slaughtering the opposing team and taking that momentum and eventually out capping them. I'm not saying to hunt people down. I'm trying to get to the point of, don't run from a battle that you can win; capping is not the most important goal in AB, teamwork and tactical analysis is.

This thread is about the difference a group of GOOD players make in AB. It makes a lot of difference. A LOT.

Karn the Betrayer

06-04-2008, 20:44

they think their builds are gonne be stolen... that's one I've heard a couple of times.

its not like they own the copyright to them... besides everything in GW is property of ANET

Vela

06-04-2008, 23:14

From Post #61:

You get a faster rate of point collection by defeating a group of enemies than you would if you just keep on capping. This being said, would you rather win, no I'm sorry, dominate 5 consecutive games? Or occasionally win due to out-capping a team?

From Post #83:

I'm. Serious. I have won a multitude of games because we, as a group of four, kept slaughtering the opposing team and taking that momentum and eventually out capping them.

I think you are getting there...slowly. :) Now, you understood matches are actually won by outcapping and not by skirmishing.

The reason you won those matches because the other teams understood your team will prefer to skirmish than to cap shrines. Instead of making you follow their way, they simply left you alone and did the job themselves. While you contributed to the match nevertheless, your contribution is mighty small compared to the people who ensured all the shrines are capped while the goobs from opposing team wasted their time w/ your group. In general, a semi-smart group will simply leave the shrine you are protecting alone if that group perceives they can't win it from you. They will cap the other shrines thereby reducing you to almost an idle participant in the battle.

Frankly, nothing against you, but, skirmishes rarely win ABs. It is best to have only a few who like to skirmish in a 12 man group in an AB match.

This thread is about the difference a group of GOOD players make in AB. It makes a lot of difference. A LOT.

The thread is about "why should I not ping my bar?"

its not like they own the copyright to them... besides everything in GW is property of ANET

Shhhhhh.....its Buildwars! People like to protect things they think they have made. However, silly may the idea be, people like to build WoH bar with GoH. </wink> Jokes aside, I think, its best to ping your bar first and then ask others to ping. This will send a signal to the others that you are making sure your 4-ppl team has some sort of synergy built-in.

Akirai Annuvil

07-04-2008, 01:14

You know in all my time ABing i've never seen a victory based on killing.

I think you are getting there...slowly. :) Now, you understood matches are actually won by outcapping and not by skirmishing.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q122/Akirai1989/gw820.jpg
It happens that you win by outkilling your opponent. It's not the standard method of course, but it does happen. People who say it's impossible or never happens are wrong.
If you feel you have a better shot at winning through outskirmishing, go for it.

(oh and for the record -- in the picture, the group contsists of two puggies, me and ringsgold. I don't particularly remember any noticeable Guild groups either, though I could be mistaken. I don't photocopy all of my ABs to my memory)

raspberry jam

07-04-2008, 05:20

Your interface is weird :sad:

Offatwork

07-04-2008, 05:57

I think you are getting there...slowly. :) Now, you understood matches are actually won by outcapping and not by skirmishing.

The reason you won those matches because the other teams understood your team will prefer to skirmish than to cap shrines. Instead of making you follow their way, they simply left you alone and did the job themselves.

No you do not understand me. Guild Wars is not something to be followed like a drone. This game is intended to be designed around balance, not builds; even when it comes down to the strategies used. Every single second in Guild Wars is viable to change in your favor if you act on the opportunities given to you. You go, and look, for the smallest details in order to create the best advantage possible.

My thesis statement:
You gain a faster rate of faction points if you kill. A group of four people can influence the momentum in battle.

The difference is, you are reading this as:
All you need to do is kill in AB and then you will win.

No, that is not what I'm saying.

I'm saying, you should not abandon an option that could potentially throw the entire momentum of battle into your favor, which is what skirmishes can do, even down to slowing a cap of the other team. It is asinine to restrict yourself, and your team, to a certain set style of playing when, in reality, you should be taking every door of opportunity you can find, even if it is the smallest door.

Kendel

07-04-2008, 09:26

So that screenshot is suppose to prove to me that throughout the entire match you were losing with regards to number of shrines capped and made up the points through killing?

Bull****. I've won many matches where the Luxons turned the game around in the last 30 seconds and recapped a load of shrines but it was too little too late.

If you were killing more opponents than they were killing you ON TOP of the points from shrines you would have all the shrines capped because your opponents would stand no chance. Stop talking crap about victories through fighting and not capping. The only way victories come purely through fighting are when you've capped all the shrines and are massacring them as they come out the base.

Offatwork

07-04-2008, 10:15

The only way victories come purely through fighting are when you've capped all the shrines and are massacring them as they come out the base.

Um... duh?

Vela

07-04-2008, 14:08

It happens that you win by outkilling your opponent. It's not the standard method of course, but it does happen. People who say it's impossible or never happens are wrong. If you feel you have a better shot at winning through outskirmishing, go for it.

Only thing that screenie proves is that Kurzicks were playing like idiots for the most part of the match and at the end when they saw they were losing they came together and capped a bunch of shrines while Luxons loosened up as their victory was nigh and almost inevitable.

P.S.: Can you plz update your post so that the picture comes as a file attachment?

Vela

07-04-2008, 14:12

No you do not understand me.

My thesis statement:
You gain a faster rate of faction points if you kill. A group of four people can influence the momentum in battle.

The difference is, you are reading this as:
All you need to do is kill in AB and then you will win.

No, that is not what I'm saying.

I understood you alright. What you are saying now is not exactly what you were saying a few posts back.:grin:

Offatwork

07-04-2008, 21:19

I understood you alright. What you are saying now is not exactly what you were saying a few posts back.:grin:

No. It is the exact same statement. I have not changed my statement at all.

My thesis statement:

You gain a faster rate of faction points if you kill.

I have won a multitude of games because we, as a group of four, kept slaughtering the opposing team and taking that momentum and eventually out capping them. I'm not saying to hunt people down.

You get a faster rate of point collection by defeating a group of enemies than you would if you just keep on capping. This being said, would you rather win, no I'm sorry, dominate 5 consecutive games? Or occasionally win due to just out-capping a team?

You are reading my sentences incorrectly.

GuildWnerd

30-04-2008, 15:19