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Eric Blair
26-11-2007, 07:34
Dmg melee (preferably in this order: Shock Axe, Derv, spike sin)
Nuker (take your pick of builds -- so long as it clears a shrine full of NPC's in under 9 seconds)
Healer or Bonder
Enemy hindrance or disruption (anti-melee Necro, classic mesmer, interrupt ranger)


I posit that a good AB team will have an ideal blend of capping and scrimming power. It doesn't matter that you can chain "Charge!" and "Fall Back" then nuke/cap 7 shrines fast if you're defeated by the 4-player balanced party that you come across on the way to the 8th.

I'd like to hear other ABer's thoughts on this matter.

Ryuujinx
26-11-2007, 08:06
Nuker
Nuker
Nuker
Monk.

And have each nuker go /P with "Fall Back!" So you can run faster. People in AB fail so it's not like they can beat you in a 4v4 scrim anyway.

Reverse Vision
26-11-2007, 08:26
I'd take two Avatar of Melandru dervishes.
Two slots left. Expel Hexes ritualist with Ancestor's Rage and Weapon of Warding.
Monk = WoH prot hybrid.

Nothing special..

Lytel
26-11-2007, 15:53
1. Earth tank
2. Warrior/monk
3. Blood necro
4. random person after trying to invite everyone in the district

Don't take monks or self-heals. OMG why did we lose?! please nerf touch rangers and assassins

Shuuda
26-11-2007, 17:31
AB balanced team:

E/D, Fire magic - capper
W/A/E/D Axe Warrior - killer
R/Mo Crippling shot - Distrupter
Mo/A/E - Prot/heal Hyrid - Support

Pretty basic stuff, but if you can stick together, it can handle most things in AB.

Akirai Annuvil
27-11-2007, 00:13
AB balanced team:

E/D, Fire magic - capper
W/A/E/D Axe Warrior - killer
R/Mo Crippling shot - Distrupter
Mo/A/E - Prot/heal Hyrid - Support

Pretty basic stuff, but if you can stick together, it can handle most things in AB.

Use monk/sin. /Sin adds mobility which is good in both the smaller battles and the larger battles, where /ele only adds e-management which is far more effective in the larger battles than the smaller, but larger battles are in general not advisable.
CripSlash is imo better than axe and frees up your ranger for magebane (rawr). /D is pretty nice for enchant strip.
And with E/D fire magic, do you take mystic regen? If so ewwy :p Oh and who takes the Draw? No draw, BHA = wipe (and wipe = PAIN without Charge/Fall Back!).

@OP. Use MBlast Bonder (MBlast is also rawr!) + one monk, frees up a party slot and makes for a sturdy party. Consequently, use 2 dervs for fun fun pressure (dual /assa for disrupt dagger and death's charge/dark prison). Though nukers are in general slightly overestimated, that team does rape in larger battles with dual scythe and the nukes.

Kendel
27-11-2007, 01:49
Damage Dealer or Disruption or Spiker (BA Rangers fit that)
Damage Dealer or Nuker
Your friendly Counter to almost everything common in AB (i'm a huge fan of the Corrupt Enchantments Necro)
Prot Monk (possibly SoR Bonder)

SoR Bonder worked brilliantely for me when i played it alot a couple of months ago. Very few people really brought appropriate counters to a prot monk and many were too dim to change target after an ally was protted to the eyeballs.

Been working on my Corrupt Enchantments Necro for the last few weeks. Removing most skills i rarely used to have the good ol' Enchantment removal. Some extra degen hexes. Insideous for those typically stupid Sins/other attackers (and even some casters). Power Spike. Defile Defences for the Rangers and now common Guardian prot monks. And the good ol' Hex Breaker. Its damage output isn't spectacular but it works nicely.

Some form of damage dealers. Possibly BA Ranger for extra degen pressure and the interrupts for monks. An Assassin for the quick spikes (maybe Deadly Arts in its current overpowered knockdown spamming form). Warriors or Dervs for consistant damage output, possibly Devastating Hammer. Eles for some AoE nukage (preferably SH and Rodgorts involved).

That sorta thing...

Eric Blair
27-11-2007, 02:21
1. Earth tank
2. Warrior/monk
3. Blood necro
4. random person after trying to invite everyone in the district

Don't take monks or self-heals. OMG why did we lose?! please nerf touch rangers and assassins

Hahahaha! You had me going there for a sec. It wasn't until I read "nerf touchers" that I got it.




And with E/D fire magic, do you take mystic regen? If so ewwy :p Oh and who takes the Draw? No draw, BHA = wipe (and wipe = PAIN without Charge/Fall Back!).

@OP. Use MBlast Bonder (MBlast is also rawr!) + one monk, frees up a party slot and makes for a sturdy party.



Please translate that part for me. It seems interesting, but I'm having trouble understanding you.




Power Spike.

That sorta thing...

Yes! I love it when a well-placed Mesmer interrupt comes from someone they weren't expecting.

Akirai Annuvil
27-11-2007, 19:54
Please translate that part for me.

Well, it's pretty simple. Your perfect team includes these roles:


Dmg melee (preferably in this order: Shock Axe, Derv)
Nuker (take your pick of builds -- so long as it clears a shrine full of NPC's in under 9 seconds)
Healer or Bonder
Enemy hindrance or disruption (anti-melee Necro, classic mesmer, interrupt ranger)

By taking an MBlast Bonder, you have someone who can nuke and bond his entire party. The build's something like this.
Ele/Mo
Mind Blast
Fireball/Meteor
Rodgort's
Flame Djinn's Haste
Mend Touch
Draw Condition
Life Bond
Fire Attunement/Balthazar's Spirit
Just spam MBlast, use Rodgorts for nuking, Life Bond for (duh) bonding, Draw for keeping Dazed off your monk, fireball/meteor for either more damage or spike support respectively. Works fairly well as a secondary support character, as it is very good vs bad players, who assume the Monk is the bonder (if they even relize the other team members are bonded) and it's good vs good players as it just provides a fair amount of defense and offense (plus, unlike GvG or similar team based, large scale battles, there is no Mirror of Disenchantment to suddenly strip all your bonds).

Combine that with say, a Monk Word of Healing heal/prot, and two Dervishes both with Disrupting Dagger, one with Rend Touch, both with a shadow step, you have a team with fairly good mobility (3 guys with a shadow step, one with a constant 33% speed boost), disruption, some enchant strip and an insane amount of AoE (the nukes and the scythes) which doesn't die easily. Might not be the ideal build, but it's pretty good and fun.

Kendel
27-11-2007, 21:17
Are we playing your ideal GvG team or AB team here?

Ranger Nietzsche
28-11-2007, 00:06
it seems pretty obvious its AB, I don't even understand how you could get that confused.


Anyway we like to run 2 different setups.

For closed maps: 1 Warrior, 1 WoH monk, 1 E/A Assassins Promise Nuker, 1 Burning arrow.

For open maps: 1 warrior, 1 woh monk, 1 BA ranger, 1 cripshot

Kendel
28-11-2007, 00:33
Er... whats teh definition of a closed map :S

Some Dude
30-11-2007, 01:39
These are all wonderful builds but don't forget that the other 8 people on your team are almost certainly major scrubs.

I find it much more effective to run around in 2 teams of 2 capping shrines. If you run into another team of 4, simply avoid them, then run along behind them re-capping every shrine they cap. Or, pwn them if they're particularly terrible.

My favourite team make-up for this is 4 x Fire Ele's:

SF, Glowing Gaze, Fire Attune, Met Shower (= kill any shrine solo before met shower finishes)

Glyph Lesser, Blinding Flash = don't get pwnt by random ganks

Flame Djinn's haste = run fast

Aura of restoration = don't die

This build is also leet for when you're in a total scrub team of 4 yourself, and it falls to you to actually cap anything.

SchvagnumPI
30-11-2007, 01:43
Flashbot or Clumsy/Inept Mez
Sin or Cripshot Ranger
Fire Nuker or Fire Mez
Monk or MM

Offatwork
14-04-2008, 23:48
I hate Lifebond. It's a small prot that's so... nub.

Vela
15-04-2008, 16:25
Nothing is ideal..but, some decent ones will be:

SETUP 1:
1. Ele Nuker
2. Cripshot
3. MM
4. ZB/BLight Prot (Guardian, PS, RoF are must haves)


SETUP 2:
1. Warrior Charger
2. Ele Nuker
3. Ele Nuker
4. ZB/BLight Prot (Guardian, PS, RoF are must haves)

SETUP 3:
1. Ele Fire Nuker
2. Ele Air Spiker
3. Mesmer Fast Cast Fire Nuker (with Ench removal)
4. Ele Fire Nuker

SETUP 4:
All Mesmer team complementing each other. It is really fun to run as long as you know the party members.

There are many others...can hardly say what is ideal in anything from GW team composition perspective. In essence, you are seeking some sort of complementing skills that help your team as a whole.

Chris Le Noir
15-04-2008, 17:19
Often run something like this

1 shock axe / dervish / assassin / anything melee
2 e/mo savanah heat, gale, convert hexes
3 m/n either dom or ilu with rend enchants and rigor mortis
4 mo/a blessed escaper

Akirai Annuvil
15-04-2008, 18:12
[mind blast][teinai's heat][rodgort's invocation][fire attunement][flame djinn's haste][blinding flash][gale][mystic regeneration]
[eviscerate][body blow][agonizing chop][bull's strike][rush][frenzy][enraging charge][disrupting dagger]
[reversal of fortune][guardian][dismiss condition][holy veil][zealous benediction][spirit bond][signet of pious restraint][signet of mystic speed]

With one free slot. You might want to change a few slots depending on who else you're bringing along (if air ele, no blind+gale, if mes, no dd on war etc.).

Personally, I like this build:

[wail of doom][foul feast][plague sending][rising bile][putrid bile][rotting flesh][withering aura][cry of frustration]
Remember that foul is now the new draw and that wail is actually useful.

oles
15-04-2008, 21:19
[searing flames][glowing gaze][glyph of immolation][meteor shower][fire attunement][flame djinn's haste][steam][healing breeze]

[reversal of fortune][guardian][dismiss condition][holy veil][zealous benediction][gift of health][return][dash]

[burning arrow][pin down][savage shot][distracting shot][apply poison][mending touch][troll unguent][natural stride]

+

1) On home maps:
[eviscerate][agonizing chop][executioner's strike][lion's comfort][rush][frenzy][enraging charge][shock]

2) On enemy maps:
[victorious sweep][eremite's attack][crippling victory][pious assault][escape][lightning reflexes][rending touch][troll unguent]

oles
16-04-2008, 06:21
R/D reaper.
I tried replacing Troll Unguent for Natural Healing (same attribute of 8 in Wilderness or Wind Prayers).
It works very well in AB.

Vana
16-04-2008, 20:33
R/D reaper.
I tried replacing Troll Unguent for Natural Healing (same attribute of 8 in Wilderness or Wind Prayers).
It works very well in AB.

It does indeed.

I suppose I would prefer a MB ele, Cripshot or BA ranger, evisc warrior and a monk (with his own preference of build), though I rarely do organized AB :P



oh, and lol at akirai for actually posting a necro build for AB :laugh:

kaelyn the dove
17-04-2008, 17:13
55 monk, healing hands wammo, terra tank, echo shadow form sin=dream team for ab.

Akirai Annuvil
17-04-2008, 18:45
oh, and lol at akirai for actually posting a necro build for AB :laugh:

Come to think of it the irony does sting a bit :P Adding disclaimer: Never use a necro outside of a team kids, it sucks.

Ugly Betty
19-04-2008, 01:53
Ideal AB team composition:

1. an intelligent leader/tactics person willing to take chances
2. an intelligent soldier who follows directions
3. an intelligent soldier who follows directions
4. an intelligent soldier who follows directions

all should have hero rank of at least 6.

mrmango
20-04-2008, 04:58
Ideal AB team composition:

1. an intelligent leader/tactics person willing to take chances
2. an intelligent soldier who follows directions
3. an intelligent soldier who follows directions
4. an intelligent soldier who follows directions

all should have hero rank of at least 6.
Rank means nothing anymore, most people still SWAY there way up.

Gydion
16-05-2008, 18:05
Good grief I wish I could find some AB players like this. I've got about 4 folks on friends list who are never on anymore and after about five matches of my entire team splitting into 2s and getting wasted or mobbing and losing in points I usually go back to questing. I plan to take advantage of the weekend event to get some more battles in.

I love the Necro build Akirai. lol

I'll be around looking for a good team. I have Warrior, Ele, Monk, Mes and Necro and... sigh a Paragon that I'll run just about any build with. I prefer the a knockdown warrior but I play to what my team needs and cap like a mad man.

IGN Kyvan Elvenkin

Ringsgold
17-05-2008, 02:29
all should have hero rank of at least 6.

I lol'd

9 10

VersionX
17-05-2008, 03:11
Preferably:

An axe warrior who has a decent enough build to actually kill.
2x Assassin's Promise Ele shrine cappers.
A WoH monk.

You don't (shouldn't) encounter many human foes when capping, so it's not enough to worry about. All out shrine capping firepower is a better choice and wins you battles. Diving into that huge swarm of red Luxon dots doesn't.

Divinity Archer
17-05-2008, 08:09
I love the Necro build Akirai. lol


I love it too, but my team members keep complaining about the disease :wink:

Akirai Annuvil
17-05-2008, 14:38
I love the Necro build Akirai. lol

I love it too, but my team members keep complaining about the disease :wink:

You're welcome. Just tell your teammates not to bump into players surrounded by flies ;)
Oh and I'm not playing much as I have uberexams coming up this week and I actually gasp need to spend some time studying.

Divinity Archer
17-05-2008, 18:00
You're welcome. Just tell your teammates not to bump into players surrounded by flies ;)

Well, when I'm playing with my guildmembers we always end up with one or two melee, spreading everything back and forth :wink:

So, you know any alternative for rotting flesh maybe? I've been thinking of [[Rip Enchant], but I'll lose my pressure gun that way. [[Well of suffering] just crossed my mind too.

Psychotic Death X
17-05-2008, 20:37
hmm. Okay then,

[The Warrior;OQMT00IS5pTDY8LBG/RHRkITAA]

[The Ele;OgBDg8OMP6wwW5oZkD1qhDaB]

[The Mesmer;OQBDAooDPIffAXTutDMd/gHA]

[The Monk;OwEU04XCz6Mzk4aGBkUSqItk5CA]

ibudgie
18-05-2008, 03:05
Are we playing your ideal GvG team or AB team here?

Excactly, most of the builds suggested don't look anything like what you would want in AB, they look like things for another form of PvP.

Fortunately the method of winning AB is to have more people on a shrine than the enemy, you can do that with no skills at all on your bar at all, as long as someone keeps you alive, however that's slow, and time is of the essence.

AB is about speed, clear shrines fast, run fast. The fastest shrine clearing is AoE, dagger Assassins have no place in AB nor do sprit spamming Rits, trap Rangers, interrupt Rangers/Mesmers, you get the idea, they are all way too slow at multiple targets. Even the Dervish scythe is pushing to hit more than one target, as the shrine NPC's are just that little bit to far apart for for the scythe radius. Think nukers, Rangers with pets set on one NPC and they hit the other. PBAoE like shockwave etc. All must have top quality run skills to keep the average time between shrines down. Those few seconds saved between each shrine over a game can win or loose in the final race to 500. Monks should have running skills or a shadow step to a teammate that is ahead to catch up.

Aways think cap group not combat group.

Akirai Annuvil
18-05-2008, 16:13
Fortunately the method of winning AB is to have more people on a shrine than the enemy,
First misunderstanding of AB. According to your statement, if you're fighting 12 v 11 on the res shrine, you're doing what you're supposed to do.
For the rest you assume the cap speed of a (for lack of a better word) 'GvG' group, is automatically far worse than that of

...nukers, Rangers with pets set on one NPC and they hit the other. PBAoE like shockwave etc...
where it quite simply is not (your 'ranger with pet' remark made me laugh btw). In fact however it doesn't vary that much, as any build can easily incorporate AoE ([[rodgort's invocation@15] and [[teinai's heat@15] being the easiest) and shrines are breezed over anyway even if you are running three warriors; whether you have three npcs countering your pips for 5 or for 10 seconds is ultimately not that important.

Those few seconds saved between each shrine over a game can win or loose in the final race to 500.
As can the kills gotten. Thing is, a shockwave team does not plow through ABers (whether PuGs or guild groups) anywhere near as easily as a so called 'GvG' group. You encounter other players? Expect to fight long and win, or short and lose. With a 'GvG' group, expect to fight short and win, and continue on capping.

@Divinity Archer - Both Rip and Well are fine. Though they might cause less pressure, they're also easier to use and cause less pressure on your own team (well can prevent some pressure too if there is an MM).
Of course the problem with both is that you have to have a corpse or an enchant near to your foes -- hardly rare conditionals, but still conditionals. Even if you trigger them you can't guarantee the same level of pressure you can with rotting.
Of course if you're using rotting whole your monks are low on energy you're not using it correctly anyhow, but that requires some team coordination which I'm not sure your guild has.

And remember never use a necro in an AB PuG.

ibudgie
18-05-2008, 23:11
First misunderstanding of AB. According to your statement, if you're fighting 12 v 11 on the res shrine, you're doing what you're supposed to do.
For the rest you assume the cap speed of a (for lack of a better word) 'GvG' group, is automatically far worse than that of

where it quite simply is not (your 'ranger with pet' remark made me laugh btw). In fact however it doesn't vary that much, as any build can easily incorporate AoE ([[rodgort's invocation@15] and [[teinai's heat@15] being the easiest) and shrines are breezed over anyway even if you are running three warriors; whether you have three npcs countering your pips for 5 or for 10 seconds is ultimately not that important. Which one of the proposed builds contained 3 warriors? Why waste time building up adrenaline for attack skills only to have it run our 20sec later whilst you stand there capping way before you get to the next shrine. BTW Rush + AB = lol Dervish does it better unless you are careful with your warrior build.

Why would you be fighting 12 v 11 at the res shrine unless your team leader was a nub?

You have obviously not played a team of R/P with pets in AB have you. I have and it is wicked.




As can the kills gotten. Thing is, a shockwave team does not plow through ABers (whether PuGs or guild groups) anywhere near as easily as a so called 'GvG' group. You encounter other players? Expect to fight long and win, or short and lose. With a 'GvG' group, expect to fight short and win, and continue on capping. I ran dual shockwave eles in our team last night and it pwn'd clearing shrines, and taking out the occasion pesky monk. Probably not quite as good as fire AoE on the elite warriors shrine.



.


And remember never use a necro in an AB PuG.

That's why most game have an MM, cause they are bad eh?

Divinity Archer
19-05-2008, 17:53
That's why most game have an MM, cause they are bad eh?

Yes they are, they are too slow to cap effectively.

Most games have at least a few retarted builds anyway.

Ate of DK
19-05-2008, 17:57
As long as there are players who feed the minion master and co's mob, people will keep thinking it's a good build for AB.

Vana
19-05-2008, 18:20
That's why most game have an MM, cause they are bad eh?

Have you even noticed what some people run in ABs? The majority of players in there are about as smart as those bloody minions. That crappy builds get used doesn't make them good.

ibudgie
20-05-2008, 13:40
Have you even noticed what some people run in ABs?
Nah I got my 3.3mil faction by not noticing what people play, and how they play them. If you don't know how to play an MM effectively in AB then come clean and just say so, doesn't mean others can't play it properly.

Divinity Archer
20-05-2008, 17:08
Nah I got my 3.3mil faction by not noticing what people play, and how they play them.

I think quite a few people got their faction that way.

I've seen quite a few mm's too, and I'm not impressed.

Akirai Annuvil
21-05-2008, 01:52
Nah I got my 3.3mil faction by not noticing what people play, and how they play them. If you don't know how to play an MM effectively in AB then come clean and just say so, doesn't mean others can't play it properly.
Playing an MM is pretty simple. If corpse nearby, press animate spell. Keep up enchants. Mash BotM. Pretty much in that order.

The build is still crap.

Why would you be fighting 12 v 11 at the res shrine unless your team leader was a nub?
You obviously shouldn't be. That was the point. According to you, however, it is the way to win AB.

R/P with pets
I've played the build. It's inferior to BA for PuGing. It's inferior to better teams for groups.

That's why most game have an MM, cause they are bad eh?
Most games have a mending warrior.
This however does not make a mending warrior a good build.
Similarily: Most games have an MM.
This however does not make an MM a good build.

I ran
I've run skull crack and won ABs. I've run smiter teams and won ABs. Really, you winning with whatever doesn't prove much besides the common knowledge that AB is filled with morons (both AI and players). The build however, is still bad unless you can logically prove its quality.

As long as there are players who feed the minion master and co's mob, people will keep thinking it's a good build for AB.
I've sort of given up on teaching opponents otherwise through any other method but simply killing them repeatedly.

Offatwork
21-05-2008, 02:39
I've sort of given up on teaching opponents otherwise through any other method but simply killing them repeatedly.

Word man, word.

Gydion
21-05-2008, 18:08
I think it was a year and a half ago that I watched two opposing MM go at it with a full compliment of minions and spells. It finally ended when our kurzick necro cast Verata's Aura, took everything that was still standing and beat the luxon necro to a pulp. About 15 seconds later he was ganked by two assassins.

I think a MM has it's uses but overall a more mobile team is better. I've been monking alot and I'm loving Mo/A with [return] and [feigned neutrality]

Divinity Archer
21-05-2008, 18:55
You should try monking with [[Shroud Of Distress] too :laugh:

Gydion
21-05-2008, 19:26
Not a bad idea, Thanks divinity.

ibudgie
23-05-2008, 10:01
Playing an MM is pretty simple. If corpse nearby, press animate spell. Keep up enchants. Mash BotM. Pretty much in that order.

MM's meat wall only works effectively on about half the map, this require specific strategies and builds from both the MM and the other 3 in the party to be worthwhile. You don't PUG as an MM unless you are good. The MM's role is not running and capping but holding a finite area of close together shrines, delaying the opposition, whilst the other teammates run and cap. MM works best in choke points where the opponents have a hard time getting by.




Most games have a mending warrior.
This however does not make a mending warrior a good build.
Similarily: Most games have an MM.
This however does not make an MM a good build. Most games go not have a mending warrior.



I've run skull crack and won ABs. I've run smiter teams and won ABs. Really, you winning with whatever doesn't prove much besides the common knowledge that AB is filled with morons (both AI and players). The build however, is still bad unless you can logically prove its quality. AB is not buildwars, so good/bad builds are secondary considerations which makes me question this entire thread.

AB although loosely termed as PvP, is about placement and timing, and does not force you into combat other than the killing of NPC's on shrines. Even that is not totally necessary if you have one more player than NPC's on the shrine, until it's capped. In response those that extrapolate it to mean 12 v 11 at a shine, common sense says that your priority should be to cap undefended shines that have just the NPC's on them, until there are too few shrines left to choose from, in which case you are usually winning anyway, and you can have a bit of fun.

AB teams usually loose from poor battlefield awareness, and time lost in unnecessary combat, not because they didn't have a TA/GvG style team build.

Ugly Betty
23-05-2008, 22:32
AB is not buildwars, so good/bad builds are secondary considerations which makes me question this entire thread.

AB although loosely termed as PvP, is about placement and timing, and does not force you into combat other than the killing of NPC's on shrines. Even that is not totally necessary if you have one more player than NPC's on the shrine, until it's capped. In response those that extrapolate it to mean 12 v 11 at a shine, common sense says that your priority should be to cap undefended shines that have just the NPC's on them, until there are too few shrines left to choose from, in which case you are usually winning anyway, and you can have a bit of fun.

AB teams usually loose from poor battlefield awareness, and time lost in unnecessary combat, not because they didn't have a TA/GvG style team build.

QFT.........to say otherwise reveals not only ignorance but utter noobness. the rest of these posters should go to halls and find out what a PvP build really is.

Akirai Annuvil
24-05-2008, 02:34
MM works best in choke points where the opponents have a hard time getting by.
Most of your opponents have AoE. Defending chokepoints turns it into one large cluster**** and your minions are going to get screwed over.

Most games go not have a mending warrior.
Alright this seems to be a really hard principle for you to get so I'll explain it in more general terms:
Most games feature bad builds.
Bad builds however are still bad builds - regardless whether they are popular or not. See toucher or tank.

AB is not buildwars, so good/bad builds are secondary considerations which makes me question this entire thread.
So you're saying: Yay player skill matters more than the player's skills - so lets gimp ourselves by ignoring the latter.
This makes perfect sense.
No it doesn't. Running bad builds puts you at a disadvantage versus other teams who are running good builds. Instead you could be playing good builds and be able to deal with anything thrown at you. Build wars is less relevant in most ABs - that does not make it irrelevant.

QFT.........to say otherwise reveals not only ignorance but utter noobness. the rest of these posters should go to halls and find out what a PvP build really is.
Yes. Halls really is the place I'd refer people to if I'd want to show them what GW PVP is really about! Note my abundance of sarcasm.

satomz
24-05-2008, 20:09
AB is not buildwars, so good/bad builds are secondary considerations which makes me question this entire thread.


No, it's not entirely build wars. Horrendous builds on best of the players gets them nowhere though.



AB although loosely termed as PvP, is about placement and timing, and does not force you into combat other than the killing of NPC's on shrines.

Not necessarily. If you had an assassin, for example, it would be much easier to make difference if you went on to gank the ele trying to solo cap a shrine than to go try to take out a shrine by yourself.


Even that is not totally necessary if you have one more player than NPC's on the shrine, until it's capped.

That's one really inefficient use of players in AB. Much more efficient if you leave only 2 people capable of capping undefended shrine and send the other 2 to help a group clashed with an opposing team. In a case like this, having 2 MM without minions in one team will guarantee at least one person twiddling their thumbs while others are busy fighting.


AB teams usually loose from poor battlefield awareness, and time lost in unnecessary combat, not because they didn't have a TA/GvG style team build.

No one said you need GvG style build. They just said that you need to not carry bad builds and bad combinations of builds. If you have 2 nukers with Meteor Shower without skill to shorten cooldowns, it will cut the downtime of waiting for the MS to charge if you were to capture 2 defenseless shrines in a row, and having 3 MS instead of 2 is an overkill since the first MS will be charged up again for use when you get to the 3rd shrine.


I run fire ele build in AB focused mainly on energy management while not losing too much fire power. If I ran a much less efficient build, it would cause enough disadvantage to my side that might actually tip the scale, since they will have one additional person sitting around being able to do nothing. And I'm no pro. Imagine how much disadvantage it will cause if I actually was good.

Ryuujinx
29-05-2008, 22:24
QFT.........to say otherwise reveals not only ignorance but utter noobness. the rest of these posters should go to halls and find out what a PvP build really is.

What, spiritway? I'm only r3 in there I decided "meh, I think I'll go try and get some fame and work on r4"

r7++ Spiritway lf N/rt
RaO LFG spiritway
sway group forming inv yourself
r9++ Spiritway lf rao


etc. Halls is dead.

chirthain
29-05-2008, 22:25
You should try monking with [[Shroud Of Distress] too :laugh:That skill just rules, really. Combine it with some sacrifice stuff and it works great.

chirthain
29-05-2008, 22:26
Personally, I like this build:

[wail of doom][foul feast][plague sending][rising bile][putrid bile][rotting flesh][withering aura][cry of frustration]
Remember that foul is now the new draw and that wail is actually useful.I still don't get it. Why are you using Foul Feast?

Akirai Annuvil
29-05-2008, 22:45
I still don't get it. Why are you using Foul Feast?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Foul_Feast

Spell. All conditions are transferred from target other ally to yourself. For each condition acquired in this way, you gain 0...36...45 Health and 0...2...3 Energy.


Apparently GWBBCode never updated the description. Wail of Doom has a different function too.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Wail_of_Doom

Elite Hex Spell. For 1...3...4 second[s], all of target foe's attributes are set to 0.

Vilu
30-05-2008, 18:02
AB feels like yet another RA nowdays... people randominvite others and join at the second they have 4 in their group. No healers of any kind, not any kind of build sync's (like that the builds would work well together).

That's at least on Kurzick side, don't know about lux's.

I even tryed to say in local that what about if people started think about their setups and have some sort of healer at least. And when i told that i'm sick of losing because of no healers at all (people die while luxon monks do their jobs) and got laughed at "it's your build, you don't need healers"... right so my build is reason why kurzicks lose? :S

Ps. What is this new trend in AB? last time i played was like 7 months a go and Kurzick dominated most of the games and had healers. And now that i'm back the state of games is like sayd above.

Ugly Betty
30-05-2008, 20:44
AB feels like yet another RA nowdays... people randominvite others and join at the second they have 4 in their group. No healers of any kind, not any kind of build sync's (like that the builds would work well together).

That's at least on Kurzick side, don't know about lux's.

I even tryed to say in local that what about if people started think about their setups and have some sort of healer at least. And when i told that i'm sick of losing because of no healers at all (people die while luxon monks do their jobs) and got laughed at "it's your build, you don't need healers"... right so my build is reason why kurzicks lose? :S

Ps. What is this new trend in AB? last time i played was like 7 months a go and Kurzick dominated most of the games and had healers. And now that i'm back the state of games is like sayd above.

please don't compare AB to any of the arenas - even RA. AB is 12 bozos vs 12 bozos, no more no less. and i'm saying that even when there are monks on the team. sure there are times when you will get a group that actually plays like a team but that is the exception. for now, enjoy it for what it is - unorganized PK.

Vilu
30-05-2008, 21:37
please don't compare AB to any of the arenas - even RA. AB is 12 bozos vs 12 bozos, no more no less. and i'm saying that even when there are monks on the team. sure there are times when you will get a group that actually plays like a team but that is the exception. for now, enjoy it for what it is - unorganized PK.

I enjoyed it what it was back then when i last time played it; 3x more or less organized teams vs. another 3 of them. Now it's about that a player A invites everyone they see without a group and when you have 4 you join up, without any look on the builds people run or profession setup/balance of your team.

I really don't see the differense on forming groups like that and between RA's. Only expection being the size of battles but that's about it. And no, it's not unorganized PK, it's a about capping and holding points to win, or at least it should.

If i want unorganized PK i go RA really.

Losing because your whole team (of 11 other players) got 0 or maybe 1 healer in total, while opposite team got their healers is no different from the RA situation. People even do your "PK" stuff and mob up and go after kills and what not. Definately yet another RA where people run like headless chickens...

Today Kurzicks lost all the 6 or 7 games i got in before i got bored about it and all of those games we had no healers or 1 healer in total, while Luxons got their healers doing their work ofcourse. All of those games were formed with the way mentioned above; i got invited by a group of 3 players, i join, leader presses join battle...
Then again it might have been bad luck with the Luxon teams we faced compared to the randomness of our teams... but i rarely saw any luxon teams without a healer and if they didn't have, their team setup was working well.

(Like one 3x fire eles with 1 water ele to snare people; You can't get close without a healer/monk support and if you go too close you move 60-90% slower and got AoE'd down)

I don't know how it's on Luxon side, but it doesn't look like it would be this bad.

Edit: To not go too much on off-topic side;
1. Melee (W/A/D, in that order)
2. Ele (fire or water) or Necro (the basic WoD or Icy/Putrid bar)
3. Ele or Ranger
4. Healer

chirthain
23-06-2008, 12:42
I'd like to try something with 2 Me/E, with fastcast Fire AoE spells. Plus one monk, plus something that's good against players. Maybe a sin, or a necro.

Ice Lightwave
24-06-2008, 13:33
War - Mes - Ele - monkette

the ettins kiss
26-06-2008, 10:43
me playing an Me/E FCnuke anti-cast (considering my ideal team would include me ^^)
Mo/A or Mo/E
fast melee A/any but NOT the A/Mo, or occasionally R/D, W/A, Rt/A and D/A
pending on maps, full nuke, cripshot, some hexer.

chirthain
26-06-2008, 11:35
I was once on a team with two Me/E, fastcast Fire Magic.. capping is soooo easy with two of those. I played necro, (Spoil Victor) for killing players, and we had a monk.
Best team I've ever been in.

Firewolf
26-06-2008, 11:39
Cripshot
Assassins Promise Fire Ele
Some sort of Warrior or assassin, either works well, assassins are good for just immediatly spiking a target down, while warriors can provide better pressure and utility
A Monk! With 2 of dark escape/feined neutrality/return or Shield bash/shield stance/disciplined stance/deadly riposte.

Ice Lightwave
26-06-2008, 12:06
Ill refine mine.
Mo/A return monk or Mo/W monk with diciplined stance & 9 in tactics. Both would be WoH/ZB - Preferably WoH.
Domination mesmer for anti-caster & quick wiping of teams that get in the way.
SH ele for easy caps & decent damage output.
Warrior as cripslash/shockaxe - hammer works but is generally slower & less armour puts more strain on the monk.

That would be ideal - However I just go with friends & when I pug I just accept any invites with a half decent title. As ab with people who have no clue is just painful & pointless 90% of the time.

Amadei
26-06-2008, 14:53
That would be ideal - However I just go with friends & when I pug I just accept any invites with a half decent title. As ab with people who have no clue is just painful & pointless 90% of the time.

Shame titles aren't indicative of player skill (HFFF, anyone?)

Ice Lightwave
27-06-2008, 10:10
Shame titles aren't indicative of player skill (HFFF, anyone?)

I was not refering to Just alliance faction titles. There are many titles that give the impresssion the player is not clueless.

Divinity Archer
27-06-2008, 14:54
Mo/A return monk or Mo/W monk with diciplined stance & 9 in tactics. Both would be WoH/ZB - Preferably WoH.


I see a lot of diciplined stance monks in AB, yet I don't have the build myself. I searched the wiki a bit, but I only found balanced stance and shield bash monk builds.

Would you mind giving me a WoH build with disciplined stance? :smiley:

Ugly Betty
25-07-2008, 18:44
Shame titles aren't indicative of player skill (HFFF, anyone?)

QFT. for me the only titles that matter in AB are Hero, Gladiator, and Champion. the Luxon/Kurzick titles do not measure PvP skill at all. and though AB is about capping, PvP does come into play and can be used as a tactic by the better teams.

as an example of just how worthless the LK titles are, i run an E-denial mesmer and have yet to find any monk on any team that can stop it. much less stop me.

the ettins kiss
28-07-2008, 15:05
QFT. for me the only titles that matter in AB are Hero, Gladiator, and Champion. the Luxon/Kurzick titles do not measure PvP skill at all. and though AB is about capping, PvP does come into play and can be used as a tactic by the better teams.

as an example of just how worthless the LK titles are, i run an E-denial mesmer and have yet to find any monk on any team that can stop it. much less stop me.

In all the AB battles I have done, only once have I seen a real E-denail mesmer, so that makes E-denial mesmer probably the rarest thing you ever get to see in AB. Why would the average Joe in AB spec even 1 skill or weapon set to stop it? much less be able to develop any counter strategies for them? Seems to me E-denail mesmers are a niche in the AB population.
though I have learned to respect players with gladiator or champion ranks in AB.
I dont really feel the hero title track is that big an indication of leetness, I have seen those emote flashing people **** up so often in AB, trying to solo the mob of noobs that I dont give them any extra credits over a decently Kz/Lx ranked player.

Ice Lightwave
29-07-2008, 12:42
I find that decent hero/champ ranks are good players, I never look at glad titles as to me they mean nothing but persistance & luck. Hero titles means little till you hit late wolf/tiger and up, then they start becoming good players. I'm not saying this just becuase I posess such titles, its just what has been the case from my experience.

the ettins kiss
29-07-2008, 19:38
I admit my view on hero players is a bit coloured, due to recent experiences. A team consisting of 2 tiger flashing heroes.
As I recall a W/E and a monk
I think wow lucky me.
They headed with their infinate judment of leetness, straight too the Lx mob.
I havent seen the monk heal onyone other then his guild mate, nor was he smiting.
they died quite alot, way more then I would expect of even moderately ranked people.
Thing is, hero ranked players often have an attitude that they gonna sweep them AB nubcakes aside with no effort at all.
In my experience gladiators are alot more self sustaining, and are quite a bit better at having only 1 monk around.
let alone when there is no monk at all present.
heroes may be better pvp-ers in real pvp in compared too gladiators.
But in AB I much prefer gladiators over heroes for pugging.

Simply Kedde
30-07-2008, 11:15
As it has been said numerous times before, these titles do not show that one is uber leet. They are more a show of experience which is also very valuable.
And even as people will want good players on their team players at lower ranks can also prove to be about just as good.

I for one do not posses a single high rank title, still having played with r8/9+ teams in HA and r3-400 guilds it has proven to be no problem keeping up.
It all comes down to me never having played anything else than GvG a lot.

So all in all higher ranked players will of course in most cases outshine lower ranked players simply because they're vastly more experienced, but still do not completely judge it on that.

Edit. On topic the best I've ever done in ab is with a team of me as monk and 3 good players playing warriors. That would be 3 shockaxes and a single WoH monk steamrolling through kanaai on the kurzick side to win 22/25 matches that day. Doesn't prove nothing and we could possibly have made a better teambuild but a heck of a lot of fun and quite effective as long as it's played well.

Citan Uzuki
05-08-2008, 14:43
1 War
1 Cripshot
1 Nuker
1 WoH monk

The Cripshot is sex, so he can split off and do whatever since he can never die. If I'm ever a Cripshot, I tend to piss the other side off in chat so that they feel like they must come after me when they see me. After that, I can stall the melee's with Crip and the Spellcasters with interrupts and generally slow the whole side down. If you're ever going to stall, make sure you run to THEIR shrines, not near yours. It sounds stupid but stalling like this has been EXTREMELY effective.

The Nuker helps us clear shrines in a few seconds. Any type of nuker is fine by me. If we're skirmishing with another team and the fight isn't going well, I might make the nuker split off to solo-cap or something.

The Warrior beats on ****. Not much to say.

And the WoH monk can handle most situations.