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MiniTruckin
03-12-2007, 23:10
The most rediculus thing happened to me saturday. I've been having a long load in Alliance Battles lately. So when I got done loading the map, somone declared me a freaking leecher. So I contacted the GW support team about this and all I got was is that they cant do anything about the report its an automated system they cant do anything about it. So now I get only half the the faction rewards and I have 2 dishonor points on my account. The point im getting to is they need to figure out a way so that players wont get declared a leecher for somthing stupid like what happened to me.

Zero
03-12-2007, 23:16
IIRC you can only declare a leecher if they're on your team, so in AB only by the three people your partied with. The easy solution is to simply tell your team (if they're not friends who knwo about your loading time) that it takes you a short while to load into the map.

Long as your in before the match actually starts (before the counter hits 0 ) I think your safe from most people suspecting you.

The dishonor points will go away on thier own in a short while, they're not a perm marker on your account.

simplicity
03-12-2007, 23:22
ridiculous

IlikeGW
03-12-2007, 23:23
You don't think you caused your team equal frustration by taking forever to load?

Redwinter
03-12-2007, 23:25
You can reduce load times by using the -image extension and keeping your internet speed at a good level.

If your internet speed is bad enough that you're showing up a few minutes late to each mission, maybe you should get reported? It's not fair to your teammates if you constantly handicap your teams.

Ranger Khann
03-12-2007, 23:28
What is ridiculous is the fact that nobody can spell ridiculous.

Zero, you can be reported by anyone on your team, that includes allies in AB. There isn't really anything to be done, the points go away after a while I believe, but Arena Net should do something about the leeching report. Like maybe have a leeching report require 2 report commands, then first of all someone can't just grief people by reporting them, and you may have a better chance of not getting caught by an impatient kid wanting to act big over the internet.

The Pointless
03-12-2007, 23:30
You can reduce load times by using the -image extension and keeping your internet speed at a good level.

If your internet speed is bad enough that you're showing up a few minutes late to each mission, maybe you should get reported? It's not fair to your teammates if you constantly handicap your teams.

-image and connection speed won't solve all slowloading problems, especially in the case of older comps. I'm on 2MB broadband and this comp right now (a cruddy Advent laptop which I passed onto my mum last year) stuggles to load maps, even after -image, but my Alienware laptop (currently waiting to be sent off for repairs AGAIN!) could get a map ready within about 10 seconds at best.

Anyways, as Zero said, inform the team beforehand, even if other teams on your side can /report you, your own team might be able to pass on the message that you're still loading. Provided they even have the brain cells to understand, of course.


What is ridiculous is the fact that nobody can spell ridiculous.
I'm sure the OP got the message already, just stop now. Once was enough.

Skyy High
03-12-2007, 23:46
Stop freaking out, the dishonor points aren't "on your account", they get erased after an hour. The zero faction rewards only count for that particular match; you should get normal faction in every other game you play afterwards. In short, it was a one time deal. The ridiculous thing is that you're attributing far greater penalties to the incident than those that actually occur.

Domitilde
03-12-2007, 23:52
It's understandable since at a certain point during the load, your character becomes visible to others, but your screen still shows you're loading and the bitmap for the load. They see you long before you're finished loading, they talk to you, you don't answer (because you have no idea they are talking to you) and so they assume you're a leecher. Like someone else said, try the -image to get the entire database loaded so you don't waste time loading.

karadoc
03-12-2007, 23:58
The most rediculus thing happened to me saturday. I've been having a long load in Alliance Battles lately. So when I got done loading the map, somone declared me a freaking leecher. So I contacted the GW support team about this and all I got was is that they cant do anything about the report its an automated system they cant do anything about it. So now I get only half the the faction rewards and I have 2 dishonor points on my account. The point im getting to is they need to figure out a way so that players wont get declared a leecher for somthing stupid like what happened to me.
MiniTruckin, it's no big deal. Here's why:
1) One person reporting you does not reduce your faction reward.
2) The dishonour points will be gone after 1 hour
3) Since only one person reported you, they will also have 2 dishonour points.


There is no reason for you to be upset. From what you have said, you haven't had any kind of penalty applied to you at all. 2 dishonour points alone does nothing.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 00:20
Well it isn't really fair to your team if you load late. You still leeched part of the match. But the dishonour (or disonor for Americans :P) points go away in an hour or so. And Zero says tell your team... what a plan. Still allies can report you but just maybe your team will tell them. If you can't load fast enough though, don't hurt your team by playing.

The Pointless
04-12-2007, 00:23
Well it isn't really fair to your team if you load late. You still leeched part of the match. But the dishonour (or disonor for Americans :P) points go away in an hour or so. And Zero says tell your team... what a plan. Still allies can report you but just maybe your team will tell them. If you can't load fast enough though, don't hurt your team by playing.

I don't beleive I'm reading this. Who are you to dictate what the OP can and can't play, what he can and can't do?

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 00:27
I'm just saying how unfair do you think it is if your team loads late into the thing. I call this leeching. I'm not saying don't ab, go ahead, but people should and will report you for it. Just because you load late is no excuse. Load late or just sitting there you should get reported.

The Pointless
04-12-2007, 00:29
I'm just saying how unfair do you think it is if your team loads late into the thing. I call this leeching. I'm not saying don't ab, go ahead, but people should and will report you for it. Just because you load late is no excuse. Load late or just sitting there you should get reported.

No, you shouldn't. It's not the player's fault that his computer struggles to load the map. He's not doing it on purpose. And don't say "upgrade" either because for the majority of players, that's just not an option.

If anything it's unfair that he's getting punished for something that's out of his hands.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 00:34
Okay just curious, what do you suggest the team should do. It isn't good for the team to be short a person. How is this fair to the other 11 people there?

The Pointless
04-12-2007, 00:37
Okay just curious, what do you suggest the team does. It isn't good for the team to be short a person. How is this fair to the other 11 people there?

Those 11 should be able to manage for a bit without him. They are still able to play, aren't they? The poor bugger sat watching his loading screen is missing out on the action while he waits.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 00:41
Ha! How would they manage?! Probably not as well as they would with 4 to a team. When capping a shrine 4 people will obviously cap faster than 3 will. That isn't fair when the other teams could have 4 per team all already going. What you said isn't a suggestion at all. That is exactly what they do. They could lose because someone is leeching or whatever you are whatever you are calling it. This is totally unfair to the 11 that want to play. Really (s)he is not playing the full match, and is leeching some of it. Therefore (s)he should get reported.

Natus
04-12-2007, 00:47
The way I see it, there are two options for you:

a) Stop loading slowly.

b) Learn to deal with the temporary dishonor point system :undecided:

The Pointless
04-12-2007, 00:49
And you think it's fair that players get penalised for being incapable of buying a new rig, on top of missing out on a chunk of the action? I don't think so.

You can cope with 3. It's possible to win with a slightly and temporarily gimped team. And look on the bright side. You're playing. The poor bugger with the slow comp wants to play, but he can't. That's not his fault.

satomz
04-12-2007, 00:50
Ha! How would they manage?! Probably not as well as they would with 4 to a team. When capping a shrine 4 people will obviously cap faster than 3 will. That isn't fair when the other teams could have 4 per team all already going. What you said isn't a suggestion at all. That is exactly what they do. They could lose because someone is leeching or whatever you are whatever you are calling it. This is totally unfair to the 11 that want to play. Really (s)he is not playing the full match, and is leeching some of it. Therefore (s)he should get reported.

Considering how I wished some players never loaded instead of screwing the rest of the team up, what you are saying is not entirely true.

I'd say it's fine 30s-1min into the match (depending on my mood), but if you do know you load slow, it's also a common courtesy to let your team know beforehand. If it takes longer than that to load, well, good luck keeping your teams from being irritated too much.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 00:55
The way I see it, there are two options for you:

a) Stop loading slowly.

b) Learn to deal with the temporary dishonor point system

Exactly!

You can cope with 3.
Yeah cope with. We shouldn't have to cope with the slow-loaders/leechers. If someone is loading slow, that isn't fair to the ones that want to play with a full team. Of course it is possible to win with a temporarily gimped team. But which team is more likely to win? A full team or a team who will not have the number of people they should have. They give you more than 1 minute to load. How much more should you need? Stop screwing the teams that want to play with a full team for the whole time.

gfb
04-12-2007, 00:56
Okay just curious, what do you suggest the team should do. It isn't good for the team to be short a person. How is this fair to the other 11 people there?

The pertinent point here, I think (sorry for the pun, The Pointless), is that not everyone is willing to afford the latest, greatest hardware/software in order to run what is effectively a leisure activity. Simply put: they choose not to shell out the bucks for the biggest, baddest system so they can keep up with all the cool PvP players. Similarly, not everyone is willing to shell out for the fastest internet connection money can buy, and not everyone even has that option (not all parts of the world have as fast an ISP service available as others).

That being the case, what is the prospective player in this undesirable position to do? Intentionally censor themselves from all PvP play because they lack the funds to run the fastest CPU this side of the Mississippi? They have to completely choose out of what may be the best gameplay of GW (however bad a human player has the potential to be, it also has the potential to be far above and beyond what the AI is capable of producing in terms of challenge) just so the other PvP players don't have to have a slow start to one AB match? That seems kinda harsh to me.

At the same time, yes it is not cool that the rest of this person's team has to play without one of their teammates due to crappy hardware issues. I think what a lot of people in this thread are getting at, and I happen to agree with, is that the report feature really seems to be intended for bots and leachers, not for people who just lack the resources to load into maps as quickly as others. Here, communication is key. Simply ensure that the rest of the team knows you may take a moment to load. If they're not cool with that, you probably don't want to run with them anyway as they clearly have their priorities in a different place than you. As for the other 2 teams that load in as allies, well, you can't control all variables and neither can they, so just treat people like decent human beings and remember it's just a game, ya?

Honestly, how people can take the time to figure out who is a bot on your allied teams while trying to win a match is beyond me. I've played in AB. It's crazy. Your own team I can understand noticing someone standing around, but your allied teams? Definitely beyond my abilities/interest level.

In this case it's not like you are without a player for an entire match. Sure, maybe you get off to a slower start than the other team, but the other team has just as likely a probability as you to have the exact same problems, so suck it up. Complaining about one person taking a little longer to load instead of spending your time trying to win is looking for an excuse to loose instead of looking for a way to win.

The only other option is to start excluding people based on load times, which is phenomenally nasty to your fellow humans, IMO. Not the option I would choose.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 01:01
These slow-loaders/leechers should be telling the team anyway. Obviously they don't tell the allied teams though. What are they to do? If the team that has this slow-loader doesn't mind that is fine. But the allied teams have no say in it at all. Again we go back to what Natus said:

a) Stop loading slowly

If we have a nice and fast load time, great. But it doesn't us help if another player doesn't. What are we to do. I have had people load halfway through a match. It was crazy. Even if they are only one minute late, that is still unfair to the rest of us. This isn't a mission in PvE where we can wait for the slow-loaders all the time.

Katy K
04-12-2007, 01:15
This truely is Riddikulus!

Ace Bear
04-12-2007, 01:49
Not only was this Rediculus but it was also Purpliculus, and maybe even Orangiculus!

(sorry for joining in but this one seemed obvious and no one said it)

Zaxares
04-12-2007, 01:49
For leechers, I give the person 3 minutes to move. That should be plenty of time for somebody to have come back with their drink, toilet-break or whatever, if they were serious about actually playing. If they still haven't moved by the end of that time, I report them.

For slow loaders, I agree that they're annoying, but generally it's only for the first time into a map while unpacks files, and after that it's fine. I don't penalise them for it.

Also, how exactly does one define "slow loader" anyway? I've seen somebody who loaded after a minute, and somebody who loaded almost 20 minutes into a match (no, I'm not kidding. The guy actually loaded into Fort Aspenwood when we were at ~80% complete).

KyppDuron
04-12-2007, 02:02
For leechers, I give the person 3 minutes to move. That should be plenty of time for somebody to have come back with their drink, toilet-break or whatever, if they were serious about actually playing. If they still haven't moved by the end of that time, I report them.

For slow loaders, I agree that they're annoying, but generally it's only for the first time into a map while unpacks files, and after that it's fine. I don't penalise them for it.

Also, how exactly does one define "slow loader" anyway? I've seen somebody who loaded after a minute, and somebody who loaded almost 20 minutes into a match (no, I'm not kidding. The guy actually loaded into Fort Aspenwood when we were at ~80% complete).

If the timer is over then it was too long.

Skyy High
04-12-2007, 02:12
The timer is a minute and a half. You really don't need a top grade machine to pull that load off.

BLONDE WENCH
04-12-2007, 02:12
The sad truth is, anyone who wants to PvP should have some type of high speed internet connection.

Uriah_Heep
04-12-2007, 02:36
Once I played on Dial up and I was loading WAY faster than 1.5 minuites. Also once, I had 512 MB of RAM and I was loading extremely slow even with a very fast internet connection. RAM matters more than connection speed when it comes to loadiong times. 128 MB or even better 256 MB more will significantly help and it doesn't cost very much either.

Oh and these thread titles remind me of Dorknar's, Drognar's, Docknar's.

Ranger Khann
04-12-2007, 02:53
I'm just saying how unfair do you think it is if your team loads late into the thing. I call this leeching.

Leeching is when you join a match for the purpose of gaining free faction points. It isn't leeching if your internet is show or you are missing a few textures that take a while to download, it's just bad luck. Cut some slack to players who want to play. Also, if your teammates have any kind of skill, they should be able to survive in AB for a while while you load.


Even if they are only one minute late, that is still unfair to the rest of us. This isn't a mission in PvE where we can wait for the slow-loaders all the time.

Holy crap, be a bit less self centered and consider that other people have to pay for their own stuff, and not everyone lives in the perfect area for high-speed, say on a farm, or just out of the city. Should these people not play just because you may not have a teammate for a couple minutes? Of course they shouldn't! :rolleyes:

KyppDuron
04-12-2007, 03:21
Holy crap, be a bit less self centered and consider that other people have to pay for their own stuff, and not everyone lives in the perfect area for high-speed, say on a farm, or just out of the city. Should these people not play just because you may not have a teammate for a couple minutes? Of course they shouldn't! :rolleyes:

Or we could go the other way and say that if you know that you have an inferior system and yet you join the match anyway you are being self-centered.


So, the best solution is obviously:
Deal with the dishonor, get over yourself.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 03:23
Leeching is not just if they mean to do it, it is still leeching if they load late, they are taking what they didn't earn. They are still gaining free faction points btw. And if our team has any skill!? We cap shrines slower. They give us over 1 minute to load. Cut them some slack? We are short one player for their computer problems!? That is bull****.

Should these people not play just because you may not have a teammate for a couple minutes? Of course they shouldn't!

If they don't want to actually buy a computer to play, or upgrade it (Btw RAM isn't exactly the most expensive thing, for an extra 1gb to be installed it only cost be around $100, that is including labour costs) then let's have two seperate places. "Slow here" and "Fast here". Or something WE the people who want to play without these leechers should not be forced to play with them.

Aneres Nielk
04-12-2007, 03:32
I see a lot of emphasis on teammates and very little team spirit. So the answer to a lagging teammate is that they should go away and not try to play? I'm a little shocked at the cruelty displayed here :shocked:
And just to spout my opinion (what else is there to do in life eh?) - leeching is not defined by those who can't/didn't load. Slow loaders are not leechers. Maybe they're not desirable teammates, but neither is a team full of jerks who report for lag.


*edit*

Oh and these thread titles remind me of Dorknar's, Drognar's, Docknar's.
*snicker* I can't help but snicker and point out the next obvious one >___>

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 03:36
Slow-loaders do get the faction for doing nothing. Leechers also get faction for doing nothing (well unless they are reported twice or what not). Sounds like the same thing to me. Both do nothing. This all may sound harsh but if they had Fast and Slow ab areas this wouldn't happen anyway. It really is unfair to have to wait for these slow-load people.

satomz
04-12-2007, 04:07
Slow-loaders do get the faction for doing nothing. Leechers also get faction for doing nothing (well unless they are reported twice or what not). Sounds like the same thing to me. Both do nothing. This all may sound harsh but if they had Fast and Slow ab areas this wouldn't happen anyway. It really is unfair to have to wait for these slow-load people.

Go buy RAMs for those people then. There are many that do not live in areas with high speed internet, and there are many who just don't have enough earning to afford good RAMs. Just because you and I have access to them, it doesn't mean everyone else in the world does. You think those are cheap? Go buy those for people who think they're expensive if you are going to complain

That being said, I don't think anyone welcomes slow loaders over fast loaders. I myself would like to avoid them too, not because I can't stand them but a lot of people do get irritated over them and it's not very good for teamworking. But I'm not going to have heart attack over it like you do.



So, the best solution is obviously:
Deal with the dishonor, get over yourself.

Well said: it's not the end of the world.

Oh and I emphasize again: let your team know if you are slow loader, because a lot of people decide not to /report if they are informed that it's actually a slow loader and not leecher.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 04:13
Oh and I emphasize again: let your team know if you are slow loader, because a lot of people decide not to /report if they are informed that it's actually a slow loader and not leecher.
And the allies that report these people?

Also I stated that they should have a Fast and a Slow area. If these people REALLY can't afford more RAM or a faster internet connection. Because they shouldn't be allowed to hurt the ones who actually bothered to buy this and want to play. Fine, fine it is all good and well if they don't want to or can not buy anything else, but why screw us up? Let us have two areas. In the slow area they can take as long as they want to load. Nobody will complain because everyone would be nice and slow. Just as a side note: If I was taking longer than 1 minute to load in ab, there is no way I would be playing. What a waste of time, not much fun, and guess who is hurt - the team and allies.

ThisisLaw
04-12-2007, 04:26
This is pointless... this will probably be my last post on this thread. All this will be and is, is simply the fast loaders vs the slow loaders... mostly. Either way I still say two areas would be nice.

Ranger Khann
04-12-2007, 04:41
I'm a little shocked at the cruelty displayed here :shocked:


No kidding. This species known as human never fails to amaze me.

PsychoLogical
04-12-2007, 04:46
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Running_the_game#Hardware_requirements

For the record i hate people who are slow loaders and although i'm not a report-happy tree-hugging utopian carebear, if i was i would've reported you too.

Saetre
04-12-2007, 05:34
For the record i hate people who are slow loaders
That's the worst thing that happens to me in PvP except that I'm losing:tongue:


Pretty stupid that you got 2 dishonor points for it too...

djacob
04-12-2007, 05:44
Hmm, people keep saying it shouldn't matter that you are a slow loader in pvp... but how many people say you shouldn't need teamspeak or vent in HA? I got laughed out of districts when trying w/o it, lol.

Fyi, if you are using wireless internet, hackers have a very easy job of slowing you down if you don't have proper protection set up. Hackers are quite common too believe it or not... so make sure your connection is secure. Make sure to defrag'n stuff too. Seriously, take care of your computer and it runs 10 times faster. If you can't find any way of making your computer run faster with the resources you have... find players who load faster themselves and team with them... or with people who don't care about your slow loading time and team with them. If this is too much trouble for you, then imo... ab is too much trouble for you. Sure allies might still report you, but it's not as huge a deal as you make it sound.

Baze
04-12-2007, 07:40
Like someone else said, try the -image to get the entire database loaded so you don't waste time loading.

Guild Wars itself is slow lately. If you've got a slow video, -image doesn't cure that.

All I can say is update your video drivers, defrag your comp, try again.

Lytha
04-12-2007, 07:43
The most rediculus thing happened to me saturday. I've been having a long load in Alliance Battles lately. So when I got done loading the map, somone declared me a freaking leecher.
When I was doing AB a few months ago, I had someone who first took 5 minutes to load in one of those random horrible PUG teams. That wouldn't have been so bad - but then he just stood around for another 5 minutes, until 50 points before the win of the other team. Our small "team" had already split up totally when he finally decided to move at last. Me being a monk, I was fuming at that point, and I put the blame onto the slow loading/immobile person: because of him, we lost the first encounter with the other team; and because of him, we split off instead of running around as a squad. That's one squad down on our side, and no wonder that we lost in the end.

Yeah... if the reporting system would've been in place, I would have reported him for leeching, indeed.

Noa Brightington
04-12-2007, 09:12
Issue regarding computers, the loading issue is based around Ram, and around how fast your hard drive is, and how much swapfile space it has available.
If you want to do a good speedup, get a Sata drive, and move the GW folder over to it. Also set up said Sata drive with the swap file useage.
That'll increase even an older machine massively.
Faster ram and bus speed of course, along with processor and video card.
But all that stuff usually requires a whole new machine upgrade.
Keep an eye out for specials.
My mother got me a Dell cheap machine last year, 800 bucks for computer, monitor, ect. Had to get better keyboard, and had to have them put in video card, but damn if it wasn't worth the money.

One thing you should do, even on older machines is to do the ctrl-alt-del thing, and bring up the task manager. Go through, and start IDing programs that are junk and running in the background (AOL, certain virus checkers, preinstalled junk) and shut them down. That'll give you more working ram, and stop these things from hogging the system.

At the least, if you do intend to pvp, you need to figure out what your capabilites are.
Thisislaw is probably stateing an extreme, but he does have a valid point to his argument. If you get into other PvP games, say quake, unreal tournament, counterstrike, ect... with a junk *** system that can't handle the graphics or bad internet connection, you WILL be yelled and and your teammates will not want to have you in thier groups if they can help it.
AB situations are the same way.
Fortune favors the bold, the rich, and those who can snag every litle advantage out of the game they can possibly get.

Should they be reporting someone for haveing a crappy system or connection or both? No, but then again, Anet did make the report system that way, and in thier eyes, even if the OP didn't mean to hobble them, they did, and that report means he won't be joining them on a return trip any time soon.
As far as other alliance groups in AB reporting, if someone shouts 'XXX XXX is a leecher', odds are, they'll be inclined to report that person for leeching as well if that person isn't moveing.

IN all, there's a point of fairness one needs to look at on both sides of this story. And in the end, I don't think it's fair for either side in this case, it just IS.

Ryuujinx
04-12-2007, 13:22
I'm sorry, but taking foever to load isn't an excuse. I know gw was intended to be for "Low end computers" to. But, if you want to play games on your computer get a halfway decent one. You can get a A64/PentiumD based computer with 1gb of Ram for <400 now. So really, if your computer is taking forever to load then maybe it's time to upgrade. Hell if you shell out ~8-900 fo a good HP or Acer it'll even stay good for a few 3-4 years.

I'm going to have to agree, if you're leeching, you're leeching. From what I understand you're connected but not loaded so you'd be there physically acquiring faction, but not doing anything. If this is the case then it IS leeching - you'e doing nothing but gaining faction.

Wol Fenrook
12-12-2007, 10:35
I have to agree with Ryuujinx, but with the qualifier that if you KNOW that by the time you have finished loading the match is going to be 1/4 to 1/2 way through, then you may as well be a leecher, as you are pretty much joining a match knowing full well that you aren't going to be there for a lot of it. However this I am sure is not always the case, often some folks probably just don't know it's going to take that long (I had it lag out and kick me once just as the counter reached 0 and too the team in). Usually, before using the report function, I made darn sure they genuinely aren't there! As in I don't report them straight away, I report them after I have died a time or two and found them still stood in the start point, and still not answering when spoken to. Just the other day my team had a genuine leacher, who stood on the start point for the entire match, their loss though as we won but they got reported.

If your computer is taking a LONG time to load in AB, don't try to do it! It is not fair on the rest of your team, who may well be depending upon your skills to back them up, and fall flat on their face without them! Put yourself in their shoes, would you like it if a team mate you were relying on didn't show up until a good way in? At the very least check with your team that they are ok with this BEFORE the team leader clicks on enter battle, and give them the opportunity to say no and kick you.

Wol