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Ranger Nietzsche
18-12-2007, 23:44
April marks the third anniversary for Guild Wars, and we plan to commemorate this event with a special anniversary tournament that will feature an expanded prize pool. After this concludes, we will transition from real-world prizes to exclusive in-game awards, including never-before-seen items. Rules for the 2008 Automated Tournament Series can be found here, and details about the in-game prizes will be released in the spring.

So I have to wonder if any of the top guilds will stick around except the hard-core GW addicts.

To me, its symbolic that ANet has pretty much given up on Competitive play in guild wars.

click
19-12-2007, 00:07
To me, its symbolic that ANet has pretty much given up on Competitive play in guild wars.
I'm not too suprised, and I'm not too upset. They're trying to work full steam ahead on GW2, and I'm not going to begrudge them that so I can get a graphics card from running blockway in a tourney.

Yue
19-12-2007, 01:21
GW pvp will officially be dead after April.

Rawr Im Kuji
19-12-2007, 05:26
im not so sure itll be dead, the idea of no real world prizes will affect those who stive to get them, but there are many guilds that are top 100 and top 50 that dont get real world prizes and still play daily. So well have to wait and see how it is after april, but i can see it dying down some

Yue
19-12-2007, 05:34
They play daily so they have the opportunity to compete for prizes.

Rawr Im Kuji
19-12-2007, 05:36
yah but many dont play only to win the real life prizes, but i understand where your coming from, maybe in in game prizes will be worth playing for?

Yue
19-12-2007, 07:46
Alot of high level competition exists for the prizes. Hence why alot of pvpers left after the World Championships ended.

Ranger Nietzsche
19-12-2007, 08:11
Its likely that people will still compete but also that the level of competition will drop.

People who love Guildwars or want to be recognized in the game will still play but the level of dedication drops when there isn't something real to work towards.


Would you play guildwars for 4-5 hours a day of hard-play when all you get is a cool skin?

David Holtzman
19-12-2007, 10:01
The game is unlikely to be dead. Certainly general skill level will decrease as motivation to really push that extra bit declines, but most guilds just play for fun. Only a handful of teams really have a shot at taking home a real prize, but far more than a handful play in ATs and register for monthlies. It's not all about winning a prize, it's mostly about just having fun.

Monstrum
19-12-2007, 10:09
gw is dead anyways, just wait for warhammer online

Vela
19-12-2007, 15:08
I'm not too suprised, and I'm not too upset. They're trying to work full steam ahead on GW2, and I'm not going to begrudge them that so I can get a graphics card from running blockway in a tourney.

I laughed when I read it. Its funny in a way but, also is true to an extent. ANET has figured this out fair and square. Catering to hard-core does not help sell games to the mass where they actually make money. And rightfully so. If they can pull several thousands into PvP, it will sell more games than letting same set of folks do it again and again. Quite pointless and discouraging...and definitely has zero business value.

With this change, you will see many old folks move out and people who never took part before will probably take part in to flaunt the newly acquired glittering sword of pwntitude. These folks will call in their friends and families to show his/her battle prowess..and there lies the dime and that's what ANET needs to focus on.

The game is virtual and do you really care about the graphics card they give? ATI card for your NVIDIA rig? Don't know really as I don't qualify to compete or to win. Game's a game. if I need a new card, I would just rather buy it off Newegg.

Just wondering is there a career in competitive gaming? I heard there are people who play to make money and such. Is that true? Do any of you have a career like that?

Wuzzman
19-12-2007, 19:21
Yeah. Any game can keep a high quality list of players if they offer real prizes. no game is fun when you beat the same old countless list of scrubs over and over again, when you get to the top of your game. I mean if you ARE going to do that might as well get a reward for it. Though plenty of top players who keep playing for the fun, a lot will just move on to the next fix if there is no reason to stay in the top besides pride. Counter Strike, Starcraft, Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic the Gathering, Street fighter, Madden, all those games keep a top tier player based because of the money they offer in tournaments.

I don't think Guild Wars can afford a world tournament anymore, unless they start charging for entry or charge for viewing. While world tournaments do cater to the top tier it does create a competitive environment that does attract new players, even if they do just play for fun.

Vela
19-12-2007, 19:48
Counter Strike, Starcraft, Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic the Gathering, Street fighter, Madden, all those games keep a top tier player based because of the money they offer in tournaments.

Most of these games have constant money inflow via several channels but GW does not. Merchandising in GW is also not great. GWWC was good for advertisement and marketing but, its not sustainable unless they get sponsors and/or charge entry fees.

shardfenix
20-12-2007, 03:30
I'm glad there are no more real world prizes. Now, terrible player's don't get new video cards for cheating.

Some Dude
20-12-2007, 04:01
I'm glad there are no more real world prizes. Now, terrible player's don't get new video cards for cheating.

Wow please tell me how to cheat at GW I never knew.

Wuzzman
20-12-2007, 04:37
Shardfenix definition of cheating is playing the game.

Guild Wars can support itself with world tournaments, it has to charge for participation like all the other gaming tournaments do. Also charging for spectators would be good for business as well.

Tsai Cooper
20-12-2007, 16:48
gw is dead anyways, just wait for warhammer online

if thats all your going to add, why the **** are you still here?

Ashur Malden
20-12-2007, 17:46
umm i dunno

Rawr Im Kuji
20-12-2007, 17:48
yeah i agree with everything said, Anet figured out how to make more money and pvp will become less skilled then it is today, or it was when the GWWC was out. Prizes might attract new people to gw, but the question is how will PvP function in GW 2 and if real world prizes will resurface then. Warhammer online does look good, thats why WoW rushed their expansion out, but well have to wait it out.

R A N D O M
20-12-2007, 22:59
Now, terrible player's don't get new video cards for cheating.

lol

Care to elaborate?

Monstrum
21-12-2007, 09:17
if thats all your going to add, why the **** are you still here?


it's a public forum ain't it?

David Holtzman
21-12-2007, 11:05
it's a public forum ain't it?

Not in the slightest bit. Wherever did you get that silly idea from?

Vela
21-12-2007, 14:37
I'm glad there are no more real world prizes. Now, terrible player's don't get new video cards for cheating.

lol. Chop Chop, Awowa, Yue are quite terrible; hmm, Sun did rise in the east today and temperature was also normal. What caused sudden brain malfunction, I wonder. :grin: At the very least they are far better players than the lot and, of darn course, better than me. So, they can receive ATI cards for their NVIDIA rigs.

Seriously, if you wanna trash anyone for no apparent good enough reason, HA iD1 local chat is the perfect place to do it. :wink:

It would be good if they hosted sealed play for top class PvP and secluded that domain with real world prizes. Why let every Tom, Dick and Harry take a shot at it when they don't even qualify to that level? Just adds frustration to both sides, I guess.

Tsai Cooper
21-12-2007, 14:44
it's a public forum ain't it?

this barely warrants a response, if you going to pull a bull**** card like that.

selber
22-12-2007, 00:58
GW pvp will officially be dead after April.
If only prizes drive a game, it's dead anyways.

Yue
22-12-2007, 03:22
It would be good if they hosted sealed play for top class PvP and secluded that domain with real world prizes. Why let every Tom, Dick and Harry take a shot at it when they don't even qualify to that level? Just adds frustration to both sides, I guess.


There's nothing wrong with having tournaments be open really. It gives lower ranked guilds and chance at a trim and also the opportunity to play against better teams to build experience, and also gives better teams a few free wins to buff their swiss win/loss ratio.

Rawr Im Kuji
22-12-2007, 16:50
If only prizes drive a game, it's dead anyways.

Eh, i have to agree with that, but the more and more i discuss this the more im thinking people will still play, with or without prizes.

Mirt
22-12-2007, 21:41
So the real question in my mind is: GW2 may-june release?

Tsai Cooper
24-12-2007, 01:47
So the real question in my mind is: GW2 may-june release?

august beta tbh.

Ace Bear
24-12-2007, 03:03
I gotta ask, your posts are always a little non-understandable, but do you work for Anet or know someone on the inside? If not, don't just say random dates, it confuses the masses.

Tsai Cooper
24-12-2007, 04:20
I gotta ask, your posts are always a little non-understandable, but do you work for Anet or know someone on the inside? If not, don't just say random dates, it confuses the masses.

almost entirely sure a late summer beta was in the first article(i.e. the magazine one), and all later ones.

Xunlai Agent
24-12-2007, 10:14
it's been dead for a while a really but after april it will hardly exist

glorentson
25-12-2007, 05:04
it's a public forum ain't it?

This my friend, is a private forum.

Monstrum
28-12-2007, 09:16
this barely warrants a response


just like your pvp advice...



if you going to pull a bull**** card like that


...which you completely change as soon as someone you suck up to challenges

Raime Ithlein
28-12-2007, 11:55
Well saying "It's a public forum, ain't it?!" is lame response because nothing is keeping you here if the game is dead.

But I think you're kinda right, GW is pretty dead compared to a year and a half ago (or maybe even two years ago); it's not the same game anymore. And, as a pre-emptive response, I'm still here because nothing better has come along (i.e., GW2).

rexkenley
28-12-2007, 17:26
"GW is dead"

I have to disagree with this lot. My guild has been gvg for years and we haven't seen a significant drop in gvg opponent matchup. Sounds to me like the so called l33t players are the only ones leaving the game, the rest of us folks are still enjoying the game.

:)

Tsai Cooper
28-12-2007, 18:32
just like your pvp advice...
your an idiot




...which you completely change as soon as someone you suck up to challenges
that barely makes grammatical sense

Yue
28-12-2007, 18:49
"GW is dead"

I have to disagree with this lot. My guild has been gvg for years and we haven't seen a significant drop in gvg opponent matchup. Sounds to me like the so called l33t players are the only ones leaving the game, the rest of us folks are still enjoying the game.

:)

The reference to GW being dead is towards high end/midlevel competition. As far as a competitive game is concerned, if it loses the competitive players, then it's really pretty much dead. There will probably always be matches available for people in the rank >500, since our smurfs never take long to get matches either.

rexkenley
28-12-2007, 19:44
if it loses the competitive players, then it's really pretty much dead.

America 249 Guilds 24.9% Show
Taiwan 11 Guilds 1.1% Show
Europe 662 Guilds 66.2% Show
Japan 63 Guilds 6.3% Show
Korea 15 Guilds 1.5% Show

Pretty much most of the "GW is dead" mantra are coming from grumbling American "l33t" players. Even if ALL American guilds quit, it is still chump change in the grand scheme of things. Sorry to burst your bubble American GW grumblers, GW revolves around the Europeans at the moment. :soapbox:

Yue
28-12-2007, 21:59
If all that was left of baseball were the little leagues, baseball would be pretty dead.

For past year GW has revolved around the euros, but I don't see how that changes the fact that the middle to top tier is dying out. After the last monthly tourney, 3-4 top euro guilds died. About 6 months ago there was still around 20 american guilds that were somewhat competitive. Now there's about 4. The number of competitive euro guilds is also steadily declining. If you haven't noticed it, you're not a very observant person.

Ranger Nietzsche
29-12-2007, 03:14
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5060/gwoadvertbartb4.png

guildwars has ALWAYS been about the Euro at the mid-levels.

Euro players outnumber american players by a LOT and have for a long, long time.


It's the top level that switched around from the Koreans, to the US, to the Euro etc. etc.

rexkenley
29-12-2007, 06:31
If all that was left of baseball were the little leagues, baseball would be pretty dead.

For past year GW has revolved around the euros, but I don't see how that changes the fact that the middle to top tier is dying out. After the last monthly tourney, 3-4 top euro guilds died. About 6 months ago there was still around 20 american guilds that were somewhat competitive. Now there's about 4. The number of competitive euro guilds is also steadily declining. If you haven't noticed it, you're not a very observant person.

Just a kid’s game? Did you know…

An estimated 400,000 spectators watched the Little League
World Series Tournament live.
Corporate sponsorships now run into the TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, rivaling that of professional sports.
An estimated 5 million households watched the 2005 Little League World Series on TV, surpassing the Nielsen ratings for Major League Baseball games airing the same week.

http://www.sourcebooks.com/spotlight/littleleague.asp

Pretty good for a "dead" sport if you ask me :)

As for your assertion about the decline, do you have a link that we can all take a gander at? Because pretty much at this point all we have is your word.

Tsai Cooper
29-12-2007, 06:58
Just a kid’s game? Did you know…

An estimated 400,000 spectators watched the Little League
World Series Tournament live.
Corporate sponsorships now run into the TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, rivaling that of professional sports.
An estimated 5 million households watched the 2005 Little League World Series on TV, surpassing the Nielsen ratings for Major League Baseball games airing the same week.

http://www.sourcebooks.com/spotlight/littleleague.asp

Pretty good for a "dead" sport if you ask me :)

As for your assertion about the decline, do you have a link that we can all take a gander at? Because pretty much at this point all we have is your word.
the fact you have to tell us, even having to use bold characters to convey the shockingness of the information, proves how little
people
care
about
little
league


yue is right

Monstrum
29-12-2007, 17:41
^
exactly my point... self rebuttal + denial & lip suction in the one post

see how i can still post here and no longer play gw? amazing

Yue
29-12-2007, 19:13
Pretty good for a "dead" sport if you ask me :)



If all that was left of baseball were the little leagues, baseball would be pretty dead.

Reading comprehension is key. 400,000 people watching kiddie ball would make it pretty dead.


As for your assertion about the decline, do you have a link that we can all take a gander at? Because pretty much at this point all we have is your word.

My word's really all that's necessary for this discussion. If that's not good enough, ask someone else who's not a scrub.

PS: Don't ask someone who's a scrub.

Ace Bear
30-12-2007, 00:37
Hmm, I think that people on the whole will still play. My guild/alliance still will, we might not be pushing so hard to get into the top 100 anymore but we will still play.

rexkenley
31-12-2007, 06:52
the fact you have to tell us, even having to use bold characters to convey the shockingness of the information, proves how little people care about little league

More like Yue and your lot doesn't care about facts, just your (aotp) opinions

So if there are more people watching little league than major league, based on your logic, major should be of less significance. :)


Reading comprehension is key. 400,000 people watching kiddie ball would make it pretty dead.

My word's really all that's necessary for this discussion. If that's not good enough, ask someone else who's not a scrub.

PS: Don't ask someone who's a scrub.

Yes, right back at you, so is math capabilities. 400,000 speactators + 5 Million household tv watchers and assuming a conservative 2 people per household = (GASP!) 10 million 400k people.
I know of a good optician :) :girly:

Tsai Cooper
31-12-2007, 18:58
^
exactly my point... self rebuttal + denial & lip suction in the one post

see how i can still post here and no longer play gw? amazing

i like how you use disciplined stance in RA... on evis axe. and i also like how you think return is bad. and nice spamming of buill's strike.

edit::and also how you consider beating my team in RA a show of skill. the paragon had "help me" and the ele was literally standing on top of dissonance the entire match. ntm the lyssa derv is what killed me both times. and did you ntoice when i counted your strikes and used dismiss as you evised? and you just wasted all that adren? that was funny.

Yue
01-01-2008, 10:00
More like Yue and your lot doesn't care about facts, just your (aotp) opinions

So if there are more people watching little league than major league, based on your logic, major should be of less significance. :)



Yes, right back at you, so is math capabilities. 400,000 speactators + 5 Million household tv watchers and assuming a conservative 2 people per household = (GASP!) 10 million 400k people.
I know of a good optician :) :girly:

Pretty sure there's not 10 million people who would watch little league baseball.

I'm also pretty sure that competitive games revolve around the high end of competition, or there wouldn't even be a point to it. Competition leaves, game is dead. It doesn't matter if there are a few RA scrubs that decide to venture into gvg, the game would still be dead.

Monstrum
01-01-2008, 18:42
i like how you use disciplined stance in RA... on evis axe. and i also like how you think return is bad. and nice spamming of buill's strike.

edit::and also how you consider beating my team in RA a show of skill. the paragon had "help me" and the ele was literally standing on top of dissonance the entire match. ntm the lyssa derv is what killed me both times. and did you ntoice when i counted your strikes and used dismiss as you evised? and you just wasted all that adren? that was funny.


i think u have mistaken me for someone else, ive never used disciplined stance in pvp, nor do i spam bulls strike, nor have i fought u in ra

ChickenBurger
02-01-2008, 04:14
So does this mean in April I can HA without being rank 8?

I don't believe that its going to hurt GvG or PvP at all....you won't see any make shift guilds made up of people using rebirth make top 50 or top 100

A few folks might throw in the towel......but thats gunna be a small percentage....

and whoever was saying play warhammer........just go play WoW...click on the giganormous ad in my post.....
(the one thats prolly gunna scrunch it all to one side)

rexkenley
02-01-2008, 19:16
Pretty sure there's not 10 million people who would watch little league baseball.

I'm also pretty sure that competitive games revolve around the high end of competition, or there wouldn't even be a point to it. Competition leaves, game is dead. It doesn't matter if there are a few RA scrubs that decide to venture into gvg, the game would still be dead.

Pretty sure I would rather believe a published journalist, the Nielsen ratings board and the US census bureau rather than a anonymous forum user who can't provide sources other than his/her opinions.

Your position reminds me of what the doom sayers say about basketball when Michael Jordan and the Bull's dream team disbanded. Basketball does not revolve around the Bulls. GW does not revolve around the few, it revolves around the whole. Sorry to burst your tiny world bubble.

And just to put some perspective, Yue's position is

The top 4 of 662 pvp guilds have died so therefore the game is dead! 4 is .6% of 662.

In 2005, there are 295M people in the US, 10M is 3.3%

So in Yue's world the 3.3% means nothing, but the .6% means everything. :laugh:

Ranger Nietzsche
03-01-2008, 02:45
Your position reminds me of what the doom sayers say about basketball when Michael Jordan and the Bull's dream team disbanded. Basketball does not revolve around the Bulls. GW does not revolve around the few, it revolves around the whole. Sorry to burst your tiny world bubble.



sorry to burst your bubble, but that analogy is both terrible and irrelevant.

A better analogy is when the Koreans quit and some people said PvP was dead : the Bulls.


No one is saying that one team leaving kill competitive pvp. What they are saying is removing THE REASON FOR IT, kills competitive pvp.

No one is saying RA, AB, or HB will suffer (I don't think HB could get worse anyway). TA and HA (what's left of them) won't take much of a hit either.

They're talking about the HIGH LEVEL PLAY suffering when you remove the reward for it. Oh, and in case you didn't know, Rank 300-10,000 GvG doesn't count as high level play. And NO **** there will still be a rank 1 guild, but the amount of effort/skill will drop to achieve that, AND THUS IT SUFFERS.




Pay attention, and you learn things.

Akirai Annuvil
03-01-2008, 04:10
Competitive GvG. Yeah it'll be dead. If there's no real reason for competitive GvGers to be at their best, logically, they're gonna be worse and the really serious competitive gamers will just go play games with rl rewards.

As for the rest:
Rexkenley has never been in any high-end PvP guild, has won 0$ worth of equipment with high-level PvP and knows no high-end PvPers.
Yue is currently in a high-end PvP guild, has been in several, has enough experience to earn him an Nvidia graphics card, and knows high end PvPers.
If I needed to trust one of the two concerning the mood in the PvP community... hey, my money would be on Yue.

David Holtzman
03-01-2008, 04:22
The little card they send you with the prizes is generally cooler than the prize itself, which arrives so late after the tourny it's outdated anyways.

Dogbert
03-01-2008, 07:53
Hehe it's that bad eh :)

Yue
03-01-2008, 10:59
The little card they send you with the prizes is generally cooler than the prize itself, which arrives so late after the tourny it's outdated anyways.

~~~~~~~~~~~QFT

Juiced
03-01-2008, 14:19
Now there are people putting alot of effort in winning because of the real world prizes.

When the real world prizes will be replaced with in-game prizes, being it rare skins, more minis or access to special guild cape emblems, there will be people who will put alot of effort in winning because of these vanity prizes.

Probably these people will fall under the category students, kiddies or die-hard GW addicts, and their skill level might (will) be lower than the current top 50 guilds, but the effort will probably be the same.

I don't think stopping with the real world prizes will kill GvG in Guild Wars, it might kill some of the quality though. Only time will tell, doomsayers are of all time, and no matter if it takes 1, 3 or 10 years to die, they will in the end always come back and say, I knew (and said) it ! :tongue:


The little card they send you with the prizes is generally cooler than the prize itself, which arrives so late after the tourny it's outdated anyways.
That made me laugh :grin:

rexkenley
03-01-2008, 17:55
No one is saying that one team leaving kill competitive pvp. What they are saying is removing THE REASON FOR IT, kills competitive pvp.

No one is saying RA, AB, or HB will suffer (I don't think HB could get worse anyway). TA and HA (what's left of them) won't take much of a hit either.

They're talking about the HIGH LEVEL PLAY suffering when you remove the reward for it. Oh, and in case you didn't know, Rank 300-10,000 GvG doesn't count as high level play. And NO **** there will still be a rank 1 guild, but the amount of effort/skill will drop to achieve that, AND THUS IT SUFFERS.

Pay attention, and you learn things.

Maybe you are Niet, but the other posts make it sound like 1-4 teams are the be all end all of gw pvp.

So who defines HIGH LEVEL?? you? oh great forum moderator? Hardly. Like the rest of us folks you are entitled to your opinion. But unlike your lot of gloom and doom sayers, I believe that we can still see quality matches in the future, even without real world prizes because not everybody is motivated by money.

There are 2 kinds of players in this world. The first play for the love of the game, the other play for the greed of money that can be made by playing the game. So yeah if Money/Prizes is all gw is about, I can see where you are coming from. But if game history is like sports history, history only remembers those who play for the love of the game.


Rexkenley has never been in any high-end PvP guild, has won 0$ worth of equipment with high-level PvP and knows no high-end PvPers.

It is always amazing that when people cannot defend their position with the truth, they go for assumptions. Seriously, I was expecting more.

Too bad we cannot expect the "High Level of Play" to the quality of some posts in this thread. :soapbox:

neoflame
03-01-2008, 21:32
So who defines HIGH LEVEL??
http://guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php

But if game history is like sports history, history only remembers those who play for the love of the game.
Lol? Competitive history tends not to give a **** why you play; it only remembers who won, and how.

It is always amazing that when people cannot defend their position with the truth, they go for assumptions. Seriously, I was expecting more.
So what guild are you in? I'm guessing it's not higher on the ladder than, say, Yue's.

rexkenley
03-01-2008, 22:14
Lol? Competitive history tends not to give a **** why you play; it only remembers who won, and how.

So what guild are you in? I'm guessing it's not higher on the ladder than, say, Yue's.

Name 1 great respected player who did it for the money(please provide link quote). Give up?

http://206.127.153.151/competitive/articles/stateofthegame/20071106-delta.php
Is this the guild you are talking about?

If you read through the history of this guild, you will find that it is a fairly new guild of competitive players who want to be number one. During their formative days, the "L33t" were already claiming that ALL HIGH Play is dead because of the "ways". So is Delta formation gameplay full of crap back then if you believe the "L33T"? Who here wants to say that DF gameplay is no better than noob-way?

I agree with the author of the sotg article that DF ran a balanced team with great gameplay. I have argued it back then as I am arguing it now, that we will continue to see better and better gameplay and competition in the future. And I use DF as a PRIME example.

Well, until GW2 at least.

Although I find it ironic that one of DF members is taking the same position as those who disparage his guild's gameplay in the past.

This is an interesting statement:

"All officers play with the core team and have a say in guild decisions. Farin was chosen as guild leader, though he acts more as a figurehead. He was selected for this role primarily because he is the most levelheaded of the players and the least likely to get overly upset or do anything rash."

:rolleyes:

Ranger Nietzsche
03-01-2008, 22:40
Bill Parcells is pretty respected and he's an absolute ******* when it comes to money. He gives fake offers to clubs just to force the place he REALLY wants to go to offer him more money.


Ben Wallace is respected as possibly the best defensive player in the NBA and he left Detroit just to make more money on a chicago team that wasn't in a position to win it all.


How about the Chicago Black Sox scandal, where some of the best players in teh game THREW THE WORLD SERIES just to make money. Including Shoeless Joe Jackson, who probably deserves to be in the hall of fame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Black_Sox

Pete Rose is banned from Baseball for life for betting on games, and he's one of the best in history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose

Akirai Annuvil
04-01-2008, 00:04
It is always amazing that when people cannot defend their position with the truth, they go for assumptions. Seriously, I was expecting more.
Ok then, who r u?

Yue
04-01-2008, 06:11
Name 1 great respected player who did it for the money(please provide link quote). Give up?


I don't think it's necessary to give you ONE person's name when there are entire guilds that quit the game because of the lack of real life rewards. When it was clear there was to be no more world tournaments, a big chunk of guilds left. However, there were still that stuck around in the expectation that ATs will provide motivation. The "fun seasons" wasted alot of time, and killed alot of the middle level gvg community. The main problem was that for the 5 or so months that we you were screwing around for the fun season, you weren't really getting anything out of it. A gold cape, some bragging rights, big deal. You can't compare that to thousands of dollars in RL prizes. This isn't to say anet did this the right way. In fact, it was backwards. By providing the world tournaments, the players had high expectations for the rewards of high end pvp. If they started with the AT system and then moved to world tourneys, things would be alot different. Guilds like Frozen Flame broke apart because of the lack of real life prizes. Once people saw the fruits of labor in world tourneys, putting that much effort to compete just isn't worth it when there was no more reward.


If you read through the history of this guild, you will find that it is a fairly new guild of competitive players who want to be number one.

The guild is relatively new (though 6 months isn't really new anymore), but most of the players have been around for a long time.


During their formative days, the "L33t" were already claiming that ALL HIGH Play is dead because of the "ways".

What?


So is Delta formation gameplay full of crap back then if you believe the "L33T"? Who here wants to say that DF gameplay is no better than noob-way?

You're failing to understand that there is still motivation to play. ATs still offer real life prizes. $500 from Amazon is pretty damn good, and alot of people still want to compete for it. The American meta is already pretty dead. In fact, you'll hardly see many teams that aren't pugs playing in American primetime. Why? Because there is absolutely NO reason to waste time organizing gvgs if there's no reason. Other than doing ATs and monthlies, alot of teams are dormant in the meantime, with people who have the spare time pugging for some fun.


Although I find it ironic that one of DF members is taking the same position as those who disparage his guild's gameplay in the past.

I'm not aware of any group that has disparaged our gameplay, and my position towards the death of competitive gvg is independent of that even if there were.


"All officers play with the core team and have a say in guild decisions. Farin was chosen as guild leader, though he acts more as a figurehead. He was selected for this role primarily because he is the most levelheaded of the players and the least likely to get overly upset or do anything rash."

I don't think I have ever stated I was the most level-headed of the bunch, and probably not a very nice guy. However, that doesn't make me an unreasonable person, so there's no real point in your quote of that.

rexkenley
04-01-2008, 17:44
Bill Parcells is pretty respected and he's an absolute ******* when it comes to money. He gives fake offers to clubs just to force the place he REALLY wants to go to offer him more money.

Ben Wallace is respected as possibly the best defensive player in the NBA and he left Detroit just to make more money on a chicago team that wasn't in a position to win it all.

How about the Chicago Black Sox scandal, where some of the best players in teh game THREW THE WORLD SERIES just to make money. Including Shoeless Joe Jackson, who probably deserves to be in the hall of fame.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Black_Sox

Pete Rose is banned from Baseball for life for betting on games, and he's one of the best in history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rose

Bill Parcell - Will look up on that

Ben Wallace - "he left Detroit just to make more money on a chicago team that wasn't in a position to win it all." (Nothing wrong with that, he wants to win)

Chicago Black Sox scandal - uh scandal is not usually associated with respected

Shoeless Joe Jackson - why do you think he is not in the hall of fame?

Pete Rose - nuff said

You have basically buttressed my position with 3 examples showing how people frown upon players who cheat and gamble in a game for the sake of money. You hear any kid out there saying "I wanna be like Pete Rose!" ? :wink:

If you want to disprove my point, name 1 player who IS IN a hall of fame of any sport who did it for the money and just for the money. Links are nice


Ok then, who r u?

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/01/halo-stalker-ar.html

In tomorrow's news, GW Stalker :girly:

Akirai Annuvil
04-01-2008, 18:42
~snip~


http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/01/halo-stalker-ar.html

In tomorrow's news, GW Stalker :girly:
It's surprising how big of an idiot you can be. Next time, make sure you understand the question. :girly:

rexkenley
04-01-2008, 19:49
I don't think it's necessary to give you ONE person's name when there are entire guilds that quit the game because of the lack of real life rewards.

That challenge is more in reference to real life sports.



When it was clear there was to be no more world tournaments, a big chunk of guilds left.

Please provide some figures. But did these guild really left for good or did they just reform like Delta Formation?



A gold cape, some bragging rights, big deal. You can't compare that to thousands of dollars in RL prizes.

But you forgot friendships and the joy of doing things with friends. No amount of money can compare to that.


Once people saw the fruits of labor in world tourneys, putting that much effort to compete just isn't worth it when there was no more reward.

I agree if GW is all about the prizes/money, but it isn't.


What?..I'm not aware of any group that has disparaged our gameplay.

Go read the forums, the predictions of gloom and doom are there.



I don't think I have ever stated I was the most level-headed of the bunch, and probably not a very nice guy. However, that doesn't make me an unreasonable person, so there's no real point in your quote of that.

It's interesting you made that assessment about yourself. Why not? It's on the official site. But I do think its unreasonable to disparage future matches.


It's surprising how big of an idiot you can be. Next time, make sure you understand the question. :girly:

It's surprising how big of an idiot you can be even after reading a story of how a pervert/psycho was able to stalk a 15 yr old girl all because of her halo in game name, that you expect me to give you that info. :brainiac:

Tell you what please post a picture of your driver's license, SS card and we'll see from there.

neoflame
04-01-2008, 20:06
That challenge is more in reference to real life sports.
Yes, clearly anything from GW is an inappropriate reference in the context of GW.

But you forgot friendships and the joy of doing things with friends. No amount of money can compare to that.
Surprisingly, other games exist.

Go read the forums, the predictions of gloom and doom are there.
Cite your source, you bloody hypocrite.

It's interesting you made that assessment about yourself. Why not? It's on the official site. But I do think its unreasonable to disparage future matches.
Now I'm confused. Have you managed to convince yourself that Yue and Farin are the same person or something?

It's surprising how big of an idiot you can be even after reading a story of how a pervert/psycho was able to stalk a 15 yr old girl all because of her halo in game name, that you expect me to give you that info. :brainiac:
This is the ****tiest excuse I've ever heard to avoid having to admit that you suck at Guild Wars. Do you post your GW ign and guild on your LiveJournal next to your address?

(Out of boredom I googled "neoflame", only one of the results from the first page actually has to do with me lol)

raspberry jam
04-01-2008, 20:30
I have only two things to say.

1) Comparing GW GvG tournament rewards to bribes of World Series players is just... inaccurate. Why? Because GvG tournaments are about $500 gift cards, not $4 million in cash.

2) If the top GvG players say they will quit... they probably will.

rexkenley
04-01-2008, 22:39
Yes, clearly anything from GW is an inappropriate reference in the context of GW.

I saw Yue's point and was clarifying why I made that statement. Too bad you got lost, ask Yue for directions.



Cite your source, you bloody hypocrite.

It's called click on that search button on the top right corner. Seriously are you that lazy? Most of the other posters seems to have no problems with that. And if you reread the thread, so far I am the only one who even made an attempt to provide links to support my arguments. If you can't find them you got bigger problems.



Now I'm confused. Have you managed to convince yourself that Yue and Farin are the same person or something?

No, its pretty clear to me they are different people, I dont know why you are confused, considering Yue clearly states he is not Farin.

But just in case you got lost, I posted that comment by Billiard who noted that Farin is the least likely to get into hysterics in Delta Formation. So what does that say about the other members of DF? :wink:

For your reference

He was selected for this role primarily because he is the most levelheaded of the players and the least likely to get overly upset or do anything rash.



This is the ****tiest excuse I've ever heard to avoid having to admit that you suck at Guild Wars. Do you post your GW ign and guild on your LiveJournal next to your address?

I dont have live journal. But if you want to open yourself to the chance of having a pervert stalk you, be my guest. Seriously the technique of "I ran out of valid points to defend my position so I am going to resort to assumptions and name calling" is very tiresome. I expected better. :soapbox:

neoflame
04-01-2008, 22:49
I saw Yue's point and was clarifying why I made that statement.
In other words, you saw that Yue had answered your question, and so rephrased it to try and make it harder.

It's called click on that search button on the top right corner. Seriously are you that lazy? Most of the other posters seems to have no problems with that.

(please provide link quote).

Please provide some figures.
gg hypocrisy.

No, its pretty clear to me they are different people, I dont know why you are confused, considering Yue clearly states he is not Farin.
Do you want to take this opportunity to turn this into English, then:

It's interesting you made that assessment about yourself. Why not? It's on the official site. But I do think its unreasonable to disparage future matches.

I dont have live journal. But if you want to open yourself to the chance of having a pervert stalk you, be my guest. Seriously the technique of "I ran out of valid points to defend my position so I am going to resort to assumptions and name calling" is very tiresome. I expected better. :soapbox:
In other words, you still have no presence in GW whatosever and have to resort to the most farfetched excuse ever to avoid owning up to it?

You know, in reality I'm actually God. I actually ride a flying unicorn to work every morning in heaven, and have several pet phoenixes in my home. Can't give you any pics though, that might let you stalk me.

rexkenley
04-01-2008, 23:23
In other words, you saw that Yue had answered your question, and so rephrased it to try and make it harder.

Yes, Yue explained why he thinks that way and I said I understand. That doesn't mean I agree. Not really sure why you find it so hard to understand that.



gg hypocrisy.

gg Please-follow-the-chain-of-the-thread-more-carefully.

example:
Yue says "If all that was left of baseball were the little leagues, baseball would be pretty dead."
I thought "little league are as relevant in baseball as major league today" and I have provided this link http://www.sourcebooks.com/spotlight/littleleague.asp

Yue says "a big chunk of guilds left."
I thought "What does he mean by big chunk? Maybe there was a month where 25% of total guilds disappeared." so I asked "Please provide some figures." So I can see what he is talking about.

Where is the hypocrisy there?



Do you want to take this opportunity to turn this into English, then:

You need a tutor?



In other words, you still have no presence in GW whatosever and have to resort to the most farfetched excuse ever to avoid owning up to it?

No I just choose not to open the opportunity of filling my "OMG YOUR GUILD IS SO LEET and LEGENDARY PLEASE HELP ME JOIN." ignore list. :laugh:

And avoid stalkers too :girly: but like I said I maybe open to the idea if you post your driver's license and ss#.



You know, in reality I'm actually God. I actually ride a flying unicorn to work every morning in heaven, and have several pet phoenixes in my home. Can't give you any pics though, that might let you stalk me.

and I say "god, please ride a more manly beast like a dragon or gryphon maybe. Unicorns and phoenixes are just too..you know..:girly:"

:laugh: ROFLMAO!

shawn
04-01-2008, 23:30
But just in case you got lost, I posted that comment by Billiard who noted that Farin is the least likely to get into hysterics in Delta Formation. So what does that say about the other members of DF? :wink:It doesn't say anything about them. Just because Farin is 'the least likely to get into hysterics' doesn't mean that everyone else in the guild freaks out at the drop of a hat, thanks.

Ranger Nietzsche
04-01-2008, 23:35
If you honestly think people like Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson aren't respected players in baseball then you obviously didn't even READ the damn evidence that you asked me for.

Why ask for evidence if you won't even read it?

Hell you could even watch "Field of Dreams" and be a more intelligent person about those matters.

And as for Ben Wallace, if he wanted to win he would have stayed with the Pistons, they were a better team and absolutely DESTROYED the Bulls in the playoffs that year. And everyone knew it. He KNEW he was leaving Detroit to play for a worse team, but did it anyway for the money.



It's clear that you not only will make silly statements w/o personal knowledge about guildwars, but about other sports as well.

rexkenley
05-01-2008, 00:04
It doesn't say anything about them. Just because Farin is 'the least likely to get into hysterics' doesn't mean that everyone else in the guild freaks out at the drop of a hat, thanks.

It does say he is the last to lose his cool. I just find DF's leader selection process unusual. Yue himself said he is not very nice, but not unreasonable. You can't accept the fact from the horses mouth?


and probably not a very nice guy. However, that doesn't make me an unreasonable person


If you honestly think people like Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson aren't respected players in baseball then you obviously didn't even READ the damn evidence that you asked me for.
Why ask for evidence if you won't even read it?


To put it on the extreme end "There are people who admired Hitler"

But here is what I read about Shoeless Joe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

"Shoeless" Joe Jackson. The star outfielder, one of the best hitters in the game, confessed to accepting money from the gamblers.

However, the majors were not so forgiving. The damage to the sport's reputation led the owners to appoint Federal Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis as the first Commissioner of Baseball. The day after the players were acquitted, Landis issued his own verdict:

Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball.

With this statement, all eight implicated White Sox were banned from Major League Baseball for life, as were two other players believed to be involved. The White Sox would not win another league championship until 1959 (a then-record forty-year gap) nor another World Series until 2005, prompting some to speculate about a Curse of the Black Sox.

I dont think Shoeless will ever be in the Hall of Fame. His love for money pretty much guarantees that.



And as for Ben Wallace, if he wanted to win he would have stayed with the Pistons, they were a better team and absolutely DESTROYED the Bulls in the playoffs that year. And everyone knew it. He KNEW he was leaving Detroit to play for a worse team, but did it anyway for the money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Wallace

He cited his strained relationship with Pistons' coach Flip Saunders as the primary reason for his departure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_Saunders

Despite the successful season, however, Saunders has been a target of criticism for the Pistons' playoff performance, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers pushed them to 7 games in the 2006 Eastern Conference Semifinals. The worn-out Pistons then lost the Eastern Conference Finals to the Miami Heat in 6 games. Saunders has received criticism for the poor defensive showing by the Pistons in the East finals. This has been speculated as a deciding factor in Ben Wallace's decision to sign a free-agent contract with the rival Chicago Bulls in the 2006 offseason. The 2007 playoffs also ended in disappointment for Saunders and the Pistons as the Cavaliers rallied from a 2-0 deficit to win the next four games and the Eastern Conference title.

So it really just for the money? I dont think so, but you are essentially calling Ben Wallace a liar.



It's clear that you not only will make silly statements w/o personal knowledge about guildwars, but about other sports as well.

I am not much of a sports historian, but I think the wiki pretty much supported my position. But I maybe missing something, please provide links to your sources. :wave:

Ranger Nietzsche
05-01-2008, 00:36
Yet Joe Jackson is still a respected PLAYER and it is known that he is GOOD ENOUGH to be in the hall of fame.

You didn't ask for a player who cared about money that people like, you asked for a player who cared about money that was respected as a good player. Even the people who hate Joe Jackson and Pete Rose still respect them as AMAZING baseball players.

shawn
05-01-2008, 00:40
It does say he is the last to lose his cool. I just find DF's leader selection process unusual. Yue himself said he is not very nice, but not unreasonable. You can't accept the fact from the horses mouth?Pretty goddamn sure I've played with Farin and Yue for at least a year now. I'll draw my own conclusions as to what they're like rather than taking something Billiard said months ago as holy writ, actually.

Akirai Annuvil
05-01-2008, 01:31
Pretty goddamn sure I've played with Farin and Yue for at least a year now. I'll draw my own conclusions as to what they're like rather than taking something Billiard said months ago as holy writ, actually.

I don't think rex realizes Yue actually knows the guild he's in.
I don't actually think rex plays GW. Most in-breeds can't afford it.

BTW Nietzsche, as rexyboy has managed to flame quite literally everyone in this thread a ban doesn't seem out of place.

rexkenley
05-01-2008, 02:27
Yet Joe Jackson is still a respected PLAYER and it is known that he is GOOD ENOUGH to be in the hall of fame.

But he isn't and that is a fact.
http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/faq.jsp#jackson
"Close only counts for horseshoes and hand grenades."



You didn't ask for a player who cared about money that people like, you asked for a player who cared about money that was respected as a good player.

I think I did, but here you are.



If you want to disprove my point, name 1 player who IS IN a hall of fame of any sport who did it for the money and just for the money. Links are nice



Pretty goddamn sure I've played with Farin and Yue for at least a year now. I'll draw my own conclusions as to what they're like rather than taking something Billiard said months ago as holy writ, actually.

You mean just barely over 2 months 11/6/07. If you want to contradict what Yue said...Yue is lucky to have people who look at him more kindly than he looks at himself.


BTW Nietzsche, as rexyboy has managed to flame quite literally everyone in this thread a ban doesn't seem out of place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_%28Internet%29

Flaming is the hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a discussion board, Internet Relay Chat (IRC) or even through e-mail.

An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site, and is usually not constructive, does not clarify a discussion, and does not persuade others.


*For Reference

*For Reference

*For Reference

*For Reference

Sometimes, flamers attempt to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority over other users.


Rexkenley has never been in any high-end PvP guild, has won 0$ worth of equipment with high-level PvP and knows no high-end PvPers. *He doesn't even know my ign or my guild :shocked:

Other times, a flamer is simply an individual who believes he or she carries the only valid opinion. This leads him or her to personally attack those who disagree.


I don't think rex realizes Yue actually knows the guild he's in. I don't actually think rex plays GW. Most in-breeds can't afford it.

I am beginning to miss Yue :flowers:

B Ephekt
05-01-2008, 03:54
You guys realize you're arguing with a guy who thinks a touch ranger is viable pvp build, right?

More to the point of the thread, who cares who is top 20 anymore? There are like 10 people playing.

shawn
05-01-2008, 04:16
Touch rangers?
Ugh, that's the Godwin's Law of pvp. I'm never clicking on this thread again.

rexkenley
05-01-2008, 05:18
You guys realize you're arguing with a guy who thinks a touch ranger is viable pvp build, right?

Its been done :) May I present Team Fun. Now that is a cool name :grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cg0MLmiaNY

YouTube Comment: Xeserox (1 month ago)
This tactic with this specific class was nerfed a day after we started running it in a 2 day tournament. Most members of A-Net and old-school guild wars players from high ranked guilds should remember Team FUn's touch ranger gank. Several guilds even copied the build for the one day of glory.

Although its kind of a weak tactic to try to discredit my views by using what I believe about touch rangers. To quote a better "arguer" than you.


that analogy/ *tactic* <- (mine) is both terrible and irrelevant.



More to the point of the thread, who cares who is top 20 anymore? There are like 10 people playing.

Please post a proof supporting your 10 people claim


Touch rangers?
Ugh, that's the Godwin's Law of pvp. I'm never clicking on this thread again.

gg :girly:

Heavens Angel
05-01-2008, 05:50
i normally see the same names in the tournaments and stuff so yeah whatever

B Ephekt
05-01-2008, 06:04
Although its kind of a weak tactic to try to discredit my views by using what I believe about touch rangers. To quote a better "arguer" than you.You discredit yourself. I'm not really trying to argue with you. I saw that was pointless back in your "I don't actually pvp at a decent level, but I have friends that do and therefore I know what I'm talking about. Also, come into the TR tavern." posts. It's much more fun to just mock you.


Please post a proof supporting your 10 people claim
Please post proof that you can read and comprehend sarcasm.

There are not a lot of guilds playing anymore, much less good guild that people actually care about or that actually have a shot at tournies. I don't care about some random guy in a r200 guild, or some guy who just broke into top 50 because there are only like 10 active guilds.


Touch rangers?
Ugh, that's the Godwin's Law of pvp. I'm never clicking on this thread again.
I seriously loled at this.

Akirai Annuvil
05-01-2008, 13:08
I saw that was pointless back in your "I don't actually pvp at a decent level, but I have friends that do and therefore I know what I'm talking about. Also, come into the TR tavern." posts.
lol
Now I know why he didn't want to answer who r u?

click
05-01-2008, 13:21
Touch rangers?
Ugh, that's the Godwin's Law of pvp. I'm never clicking on this thread again.
I think we're all forgetting about iQ's dual touch ranger gank team oh so long ago (technically it was on one of their smurfs, the dixie one iirc) :o

I still lol thinking about it, simply because they actually pulled it off and won every match that night.

disclaimer: Touch rangers r baed.

rexkenley
05-01-2008, 16:45
It's much more fun to just mock you.

And people accuse me of flaming? :wink:
Although the very fact that I have provided screen shots and videos and links to support my position gives more credence to my position compared to you who gave nothing more than just personal opinions.



Please post proof that you can read and comprehend sarcasm.
Considering that English is my 3rd language, I still have trouble with sarcasms. Please be considerate and put *sarcasm, so that there will be no misunderstanding. :girly:


I don't care about some random guy in a r200 guild, or some guy who just broke into top 50 because there are only like 10 active guilds.

Sounds to me that you dont really care for the truth, just your opinion. It would have been more persuasive if you provided some sort of statistics. Because I can already refute you by just showing this link.

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php

As of today there has been already more than 30 guilds change positions on the ladder on the first 3 pages.


lol
Now I know why he didn't want to answer who r u?

Why should I answer a heckler who only wants to flame and not engage in a serious discussion? *see my tribute to your flame
Plus I already stated why I refuse to answer that question, if you can't comprehend that then too bad so sad.
:soapbox:

severed
05-01-2008, 16:46
Ooh, nice thread. This kind of epic... whatever really makes it worth it to pop in here once in a while!

A couple of tiny comments before more epic programming:


Guilds like Frozen Flame broke apart because of the lack of real life prizes.

This bit regarding [ICE] is wrong. Prizes had nothing to do with it; it was more of a case of falsely high expectations and drama caused by some players being more pro (or at least perceiving they were more pro) than others. In other words, a perfectly normal disband. Besides, I don't think ICE ever had a realistic shot at consistent top places with the players they had at the time.

And regarding the lack of real world prizes, it's really pretty irrational to keep playing a game such as GW for only the prizes. The effort required for consistent top spots isn't worth it, and there's too much randomness involved. Now don't get me wrong here, I fully realise that people are sometimes irrational and may well keep playing for prizes only - it's merely silly.

Finally, at this point it's impossible to say what the actual value of in-game prizes will be. Didn't Everlasting Beetle Tonics fetch like $800-1000 on eBay?

rexkenley
05-01-2008, 16:55
Finally, at this point it's impossible to say what the actual value of in-game prizes will be. Didn't Everlasting Beetle Tonics fetch like $800-1000 on eBay?

Holy Cow! I could have been RICH! :cry:

B Ephekt
05-01-2008, 20:39
Although the very fact that I have provided screen shots and videos and links to support my position gives more credence to my position compared to you who gave nothing more than just personal opinions.You proved that the build was used, not that it was a good or viable build. iQ running TR gankers that bipped each other was amusing and worked due to surprising the other team. TR is a stupid gimmick that's not viable for the vast majority of pvp, unless you're just button mashing in RA.


Sounds to me that you dont really care for the truth, just your opinion. It would have been more persuasive if you provided some sort of statistics. Because I can already refute you by just showing this link. For Christ's sake, I'm being facetious. I don't literally mean that there are only 10 guilds; I mean that there are hardly any left compared to this time last year, or in 06. Try to keep, will you?


Why should I answer a heckler who only wants to flame and not engage in a serious discussion? *see my tribute to your flame
Plus I already stated why I refuse to answer that question, if you can't comprehend that then too bad so sad.
:soapbox:I wouldn't engage in a serious discussion about subnetting or ATM policing with someone who refused to make their level of experience known either. Just as I assume you wouldn't discuss the finer points of state automation with the average joe.

rexkenley
05-01-2008, 22:55
You proved that the build was used, not that it was a good or viable build. iQ running TR gankers that bipped each other was amusing and worked due to surprising the other team. TR is a stupid gimmick that's not viable for the vast majority of pvp, unless you're just button mashing in RA.

Good or Bad we made our points in the Tavern, so we can agree to disagree on the subject. But NO ONE can ever claim that you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play. I find it interesting that IQ used it successfully in many of their matches.



For Christ's sake, I'm being facetious.

Well, if you really want to make your point, then I suggest you be straight, or at least note it somewhere. I am sure you can do that and will have less chance of being misunderstood. :flowers:



I wouldn't engage in a serious discussion about subnetting or ATM policing with someone who refused to make their level of experience known either.

They didn't ask for level of experience, they asked for specific identity. But for experience I have no problem letting you know
1.) I have played GW since day 1 pve and pvp
2.) I have 2 accounts (like all crazy fans of the game) ty ANET for extra slots
3.) I had the privilege of being an alpha tester, member of the good side :cloud9: (hehe sorry guys).
4.) I had the privilege of being a member of legendary/great guilds from all over the world.
5.) I had the privilege of knowing great players and getting to know new players who became great.
6.) I have been through the highs and lows of GW and I can still say the best is still to come and am pretty excited about GW2. Man the things I have seen, you guys wont be disappointed.


You're agruing with an idiot. Don't. He'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. Apparently, lots of it. Just make sideways remarks about how he fails, and let everyone with half a brain cell left think 'lol'.

Now that is just sad :embarassed:

Mr T is cool :wink:

shawn
06-01-2008, 01:51
3.) I had the privilege of being an alpha tester, member of the good side :cloud9: (hehe sorry guys).
So this means you were in ULGG, AB, or XoF?
:-)
I don't think I'd be using that to brag to a bunch of pvpers that were also in alpha, but ok.

raspberry jam
06-01-2008, 04:32
NO ONE can ever claim that you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play.you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play.

Yue
06-01-2008, 05:00
It does say he is the last to lose his cool. I just find DF's leader selection process unusual. Yue himself said he is not very nice, but not unreasonable. You can't accept the fact from the horses mouth?


For not very nice but not unreasonable, I was referring to myself.


NO ONE can ever claim that you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play.

You can. You'll just lose. Pretty sure what the teams did with touchers before the fix doesn't apply to how they'd work now. Pretty sure ritspike used to work, it doesn't anymore.


Being in China makes it difficult to keep up with how dumb this thread is.

Ranger Nietzsche
06-01-2008, 11:57
Even though I hate cliche's and it isn't very true here but I'm going to say it because it satisfies both my love of eating what I kill and cats.

Cats away; mice play

I was going to take the easy way out and just close it but I'll forgo that inevitability for now because we so rarely get interesting threads in here.

but this thread is getting irrelevant... FAST


so I'm going to suggest this,

on the one side, stop insulting rex w/o at least supplying something new to the discussion at the same time.

on the other side, rex stop insulting people because they don't have "evidence" to support their claims when NO ONE but ANET THEMSELVES has access to the kind of data you demand. Unreasonable demands for evidence won't prove your point, it just pisses everyone off and serves to continue to derail the thread.

rexkenley
06-01-2008, 23:19
I'm never clicking on this thread again.

Welcome Back!



I don't think I'd be using that to brag to a bunch of pvpers that were also in alpha, but ok.

no bragging intended, that's the advantage of having multiple accounts = multiple guild memberships, multiple friends, multiple fun


you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play.

I just have to smile at this one :rolleyes: I hope Team Fun can surprise us again.



You can. You'll just lose. Pretty sure what the teams did with touchers before the fix doesn't apply to how they'd work now. Pretty sure ritspike used to work, it doesn't anymore.

After the nerf, I would have to agree with you, it is very difficult to perform the gank.



Being in China makes it difficult to keep up with how dumb this thread is.

Ni Sian Chai Na Li? Ni Chong Kwo Ren Ma? :listen:


on the other side, rex stop insulting people because they don't have "evidence" to support their claims when NO ONE but ANET THEMSELVES has access to the kind of data you demand. Unreasonable demands for evidence won't prove your point, it just pisses everyone off and serves to continue to derail the thread.

I dont know why people would view it as an insult. To me asking for proof is akin to trying to understand how one comes to the conclusion that they have. I didn't know it would be hard to access the data, considering all of mine were the result of simple google searches.

For example in our discussion about sports respect, Joe Jackson and Ben Wallace. If we hadn't posted links, wiki and etc we would never have clearly understood the issue and where we misunderstood each other.

I dont think I was unreasonable. I never asked for data certified by ANET digitally secured by Gail Grey's DNA coding :laughing:

For example when people said that a BIG chunk of GW pvp is gone, they have to substantiate that. They could say "Out of the Top 10, 7 guilds disbanded because of no prizes." Now 70% is a BIG chunk. But when I went to the official site and came up with a .6% figure, that does raise some questions. By questioning we minimize the spread of untruths.

I think this is the best example


Guilds like Frozen Flame broke apart because of the lack of real life prizes.

I didn't question that, nor made the unreasonable demand of "Well prove it by posting a pdf with signatures from Frozen Flame members." :shocked:

But...


This bit regarding [ICE] is wrong. Prizes had nothing to do with it; it was more of a case of falsely high expectations and drama caused by some players being more pro (or at least perceiving they were more pro) than others. In other words, a perfectly normal disband.

So now we know the truth.

*Hey this thread is in the Top 10 of most viewed. LOL

Ranger Nietzsche
07-01-2008, 00:04
yes but your .6% number was irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

People aren't saying no one will GvG, just that no one GOOD will GvG.

That is a qualitative assessment that NO ONE can back up with data. And you quoting irrelevant statistics and then acting condescending when people point out that they are irrelevant by demanding more proof just pisses everyone off and if you aren't aware of that then you are very imperceptive. And let me tell you that I don't consider ignorance an excuse if your posting habits continually result in the devolution of threads to name calling.

Akirai Annuvil
07-01-2008, 00:44
I was going to take the easy way out and just close it but I'll forgo that inevitability for now because we so rarely get interesting threads in here.
Whats so interesting about it? It was fairly interesting in the beginning, then came rex and a boring bit, then people started lol'ling at rex which was sorta funny, but the actual discussion was only interesting at the start. As far as GvG dying out, I wanna hear it from experts, people's whose opinions are valid and proven. That's you, yue, david, some dude, shawn, wet one, and a bunch of others I'm prolly forgetting. But seeing rex tie himself into a knot and completely disrupt any discussion is not interesting. Ban him, and let serious discussion happen as you threatened in the previous post, close the thread or ignore him like everyone else.
I'd advocate either the first or the last suggestion. The first for obvious quality control, the latter as when people don't feed the troll, he'll die.
Closing the thread doesn't really accomplish anything. Either way, there's no reason to react to someone like rex.


And let me tell you that I don't consider ignorance an excuse if your posting habits continually result in the devolution of threads to name calling.
*cough* (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471507) Please sign there, thank you.

raspberry jam
07-01-2008, 02:35
I just have to smile at this one :rolleyes: I hope Team Fun can surprise us again.I said, you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play. Since you're not in a top GvG guild, and you can't get a touch ranger PUG in HA.

rexkenley
07-01-2008, 18:45
yes but your .6% number was irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I disagree, it is part of the discussion when one makes a blanket statement on a BIG chunk of guilds quitting without qualifying that statement.



People aren't saying no one will GvG, just that no one GOOD will GvG.

Of course not, if you dont give the new guys a chance. ANET is still selling a good number of copies of gw today. As of august 07, gw hit 4 million. That gives a new possible good gvg guild just 5 months to practice. By making such a blanket statement about the new players of not being good is very arrogant and irresponsible.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15207



That is a qualitative assessment that NO ONE can back up with data. And you quoting irrelevant statistics and then acting condescending when people point out that they are irrelevant by demanding more proof just pisses everyone off and if you aren't aware of that then you are very imperceptive. And let me tell you that I don't consider ignorance an excuse if your posting habits continually result in the devolution of threads to name calling.

As I explained before I am not a stickler for proof. If you have a link great, but if you dont have a link then at least explain why you come to that conclusion. Is that too much to ask?

As for condescending and devolution, I think you are a hypocrite. Your enforcement of forum decorum is selective and biased. Many of the things you chastise me about, you yourself are guilty of. If possible please provide the name of the moderator that you report to so that this can go through the process of arbitration if you continue to press this issue.


Whats so interesting about it? It was fairly interesting in the beginning, then came rex and a boring bit, then people started lol'ling at rex which was sorta funny, but the actual discussion was only interesting at the start. As far as GvG dying out, I wanna hear it from experts, people's whose opinions are valid and proven. That's you, yue, david, some dude, shawn, wet one, and a bunch of others I'm prolly forgetting. But seeing rex tie himself into a knot and completely disrupt any discussion is not interesting. Ban him, and let serious discussion happen as you threatened in the previous post, close the thread or ignore him like everyone else.
I'd advocate either the first or the last suggestion. The first for obvious quality control, the latter as when people don't feed the troll, he'll die.
Closing the thread doesn't really accomplish anything. Either way, there's no reason to react to someone like rex.


Yes I would like to hear what the others have to say too, Yue said his piece, so we got him covered. Wet one, haven't seen him in a while (dude that was a nice picture of that girl in the bar that you took).

And Akirai

A discussion is an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate. To the question I am the nay and most of you are aye. If everybody is aye then this is a lecture, not a discussion. And you absolutely correct that nobody needs to react, just discuss. I hope you follow your own advice.


So you just admitted to being part of the Honor Watch? Oh okay.
This thread keeps getting better.

Hey, I saw someone with a character called 'Dunking Funkoro' the other day. Quick, to the ReportMobile! Who needs feedback on broken mechanics and unfun missions when there are names to report!

Why not? I am proud that 1 of my accounts is a member of a guild who helps keep pedophiles, racist, sexist and molesters out of the game.


I said, you cannot use TR in high lvl pvp/gvg play. Since you're not in a top GvG guild, and you can't get a touch ranger PUG in HA.

Please continue to read, right after Yue's quote. Nice assumption, you dont even know which guild I belong to, other than my mule account:girly:

raspberry jam
07-01-2008, 21:51
Please continue to read, right after Yue's quote. Nice assumption, you dont even know which guild I belong to, other than my mule accountSo what guild do you belong to? Apart from the one that "helps keep pedophiles, racist, sexist and molesters out of the game"? (is that even English, by the way?)

Oh you haven't said yet? Hmm I wonder why, maybe because you don't belong to a top level guild after all? Prove me wrong, or agree that my assertion is correct.

Of course, you can choose to do neither, which will prove that you are just a third grade troll.

David Holtzman
08-01-2008, 01:02
Why not? I am proud that 1 of my accounts is a member of a guild who helps keep pedophiles, racist, sexist and molesters out of the game.

Yeah that might have worked if I hadn't been an alpha and seen the reporting thread. The "Honor Watch" is a joke that the cast of the lion king would find annoying. But the point is that ULGG has all the high end PvP experience of the average RA player.

And I cannot believe you don't know who Tommy is.

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 02:33
So what guild do you belong to? Apart from the one that "helps keep pedophiles, racist, sexist and molesters out of the game"? (is that even English, by the way?)

This is the first thread that I have to repeat myself several times. Please go back to previous posts to find your answer.


Yeah that might have worked if I hadn't been an alpha and seen the reporting thread. The "Honor Watch" is a joke that the cast of the lion king would find annoying. But the point is that ULGG has all the high end PvP experience of the average RA player.

And I cannot believe you don't know who Tommy is.

I fail to see your point, considering I never gvg/pvp with ULGG. Did you miss my post about having multiple accounts with multiple guild memberships? It may be a joke to you David, but Anet's appreciation is worth a lot more than your cynicism.

Do you know Chang Kai Shek without googling it?

Ranger Nietzsche
08-01-2008, 02:46
FYI to all those concerned, I just deleted all of the posts in the COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT Honor Watch discussion topic because it was completely irrelevant

I'm not saying anything was/wasn't racist, just that I don't give a **** about Honor Watch, I've had that discussion more than I ever care to and it has nothing to do with this thread.

So I'm not calling Shawn a racist, or endorsing rex's postions or davids positions or anyones positions on honor watch, its just completely pointless and stupid discussion.

Go post in the CDF thread about reporting bad names if you want to get in to that.


If you want my personal opinion I think Honor Watch is a dumb idea and a waste of time.

But none of that matters.

shawn
08-01-2008, 03:05
If you want my personal opinion I think Honor Watch is a dumb idea and a waste of time.
This is why Nietzsche is one of GWO's best mods.

And hey, in my last post I had a perfectly on topic bit. The thread was originally about AT prizes right? So with all the 'carebearification' everyone is trying to do to the game I was wondering if they'll start offering something like the new carebears DVD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Care_Bears:_Oopsy_Does_It!) and a copy of the Holy Bible.

David Holtzman
08-01-2008, 03:07
I fail to see your point, considering I never gvg/pvp with ULGG. Did you miss my post about having multiple accounts with multiple guild memberships?

Oh, ok. Well, which one of your multiple guilds is the highest ranked, what rank is it and what's its name?


It may be a joke to you David, but Anet's appreciation is worth a lot more than your cynicism.

Not in here.


Do you know Chang Kai Shek without googling it?

The person, yes. Not sure why he's relevant though. Unless you're trying to draw some analogy where we're Mao? I guess that would sorta work, what with you fleeing into exile...

Ranger Nietzsche
08-01-2008, 03:18
I think he's trying to catch you off guard about someone he knows about that he thinks you wouldn't since you found someone you know about that he doesn't.

AKA he's trying to do to you with Chang Kai Shek what you did to him with Tommy.

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 03:24
Oh, ok. Well, which one of your multiple guilds is the highest ranked, what rank is it and what's its name?

Dead
*looking back I would gladly trade in the gold trim if it means guild longevity, sigh.



Not in here.

But ingame :blush:



The person, yes. Not sure why he's relevant though. Unless you're trying to draw some analogy where we're Mao? I guess that would sorta work, what with you fleeing into exile...

No, I was hoping for the "just because you know him, not everybody in the world does" Now a link to who tommy is would really be nice :)


I think he's trying to catch you off guard about someone he knows about that he thinks you wouldn't since you found someone you know about that he doesn't.

AKA he's trying to do to you with Chang Kai Shek what you did to him with Tommy.

What he said :flowers:

shawn
08-01-2008, 03:28
Next you're going to say you haven't heard of Team Quitter or Dark Alley?

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 03:29
Next you're going to say you haven't heard of Team Quitter or Dark Alley?

Nope, I didn't realize I was playing trivia pusuit

Akirai Annuvil
08-01-2008, 03:33
Looking back I'd glady trade all the money I've won with tournies over and over again just to revive my conveniently dead guild.

Of course, I have no proof nor even a name of the guild I was in but believe me we won lots of tournies and lots of cash, you have to believe my claims despite my disturbing lack of knowledge of actual PvP, you just have to.

For some reason I believe there's a chink in your argument.
With which I of course mean the british word for dent or crack.

shawn
08-01-2008, 03:39
Nope, I didn't realize I was playing trivia pusuit
You're not, you're playing Common Guild Wars Knowledge 101.
You've gone from a self-proclaimed top pvper to not even knowing the names of guilds that have been top 1 and 2? This is hilarious. Why are you even still allowed to post on in the pvp section, ffs.

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 03:48
Looking back I'd glady trade all the money I've won with tournies over and over again just to revive my conveniently dead guild.

Of course, I have no proof nor even a name of the guild I was in but believe me we won lots of tournies and lots of cash, you have to believe my claims despite my disturbing lack of knowledge of actual PvP, you just have to.

For some reason I believe there's a chink in your argument.
With which I of course mean the british word for dent or crack.

I just have to laugh at the desperation.


You're not, you're playing Common Guild Wars Knowledge 101.
You've gone from a self-proclaimed top pvper to not even knowing the names of guilds that have been top 1 and 2? This is hilarious. Why are you even still allowed to post on in the pvp section, ffs.

Do you know the name of the first Guild formed in GW? Do knowing these GW fact affect your team's skill?

I am not as arrogant as some to declare myself top player. All the credit goes to my team and the friendship that we have, or had. But life goes on and at least we got the memories:flowers:

I dont know ask Ranger.

Ranger Nietzsche
08-01-2008, 07:14
it doesn't affect skill, but it does make them more knowledgeable on the subject of the opinions of the high-end pvp community.

David Holtzman
08-01-2008, 09:18
Dead
*looking back I would gladly trade in the gold trim if it means guild longevity, sigh.

You keep mentioning gold trim (I can't think of any gold trimmed guild that I don't know fairly well, excepting the koreans) but won't say which guild. That means you bought a cape. If you expect that to impress us, maybe you should have played for a team that let you use alliance chat? Of course, its also possible you joined the dev guild (which Izzy decided stupidly to give capes to) but I can't see why you would bring them up for PvP credibility.


But ingame :blush:

No, not really. You don't tend to do well in PvP because Anet likes you.


No, I was hoping for the "just because you know him, not everybody in the world does" Now a link to who tommy is would really be nice :)

He's a monk for dR, previously of iQ previously of QQ. He's very good.

Yue
08-01-2008, 10:39
This thread is ending up alot like the "who r u" argument I had to do with oles.

I know alot of the koreans, and I still play with several of them. If your claim to gold is korean, I can go verify that pretty easily once I get back to the states.

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 16:51
it doesn't affect skill, but it does make them more knowledgeable on the subject of the opinions of the high-end pvp community.

I never disagree/ nor questioned that. I just dont think its fair that you dont give the new guys a chance to prove themselves, no matter how knowledgeable you are.


You keep mentioning gold trim (I can't think of any gold trimmed guild that I don't know fairly well, excepting the koreans) but won't say which guild. That means you bought a cape. If you expect that to impress us, maybe you should have played for a team that let you use alliance chat? Of course, its also possible you joined the dev guild (which Izzy decided stupidly to give capes to) but I can't see why you would bring them up for PvP credibility.

Nope, its against ANET EULA to buy accounts like that. Please dont be under the mistaken impression that I am trying to impress you, I am not. I always try to forge my opinions on reality, simple as that. You ask, I answer by my choice. And David if you want to HOG all the glory of being the greatest pvp player, go right ahead. I never have nor ever will ever claim to be the greatest.



No, not really. You don't tend to do well in PvP because Anet likes you.

As though Anet-likable rating affects pvp skills, David that is absolutely a ridiculous statement.



He's a monk for dR, previously of iQ previously of QQ. He's very good.

Hi Tommy :flowers:


This thread is ending up alot like the "who r u" argument I had to do with oles.

I know alot of the koreans, and I still play with several of them. If your claim to gold is korean, I can go verify that pretty easily once I get back to the states.

This is the first time I have a group of people so intent in knowing my ign and my guild :shocked:

And just to clarify, I never mentioned which country (Blame David for that Korean bit).

PS. Just a thought, wouldn't time be better spent discussing the issue, getting facts and links, explaining each side clearly rather than playing "WHooooo r Youuuuu? toot toot toot toot, I REALLY WANNA KNOW"?

:girly:

smrandom
08-01-2008, 17:52
I never disagree/ nor questioned that. I just dont think its fair that you dont give the new guys a chance to prove themselves, no matter how knowledgeable you are.
When someone asks "who r u" they are giving you a chance to prove that you are knowledgeable (or at least, credible). No one is going to give you credit for being knowledgeable just because you say you are. If you've got the stones to back up your moxie, then you won't have a problem whipping them out over and over again to shut people up.


Nope, its against ANET EULA to buy accounts like that. Please dont be under the mistaken impression that I am trying to impress you, I am not. I always try to forge my opinions on reality, simple as that. You ask, I answer by my choice. And David if you want to HOG all the glory of being the greatest pvp player, go right ahead. I never have nor ever will ever claim to be the greatest.
David means buying a membership in a gold trim guild, ffs. Ever heard of eF, for example?


Hi Tommy :flowers:
David is not Tommy. Holy cow.


PS. Just a thought, wouldn't time be better spent discussing the issue, getting facts and links, explaining each side clearly rather than playing "WHooooo r Youuuuu? toot toot toot toot, I REALLY WANNA KNOW"?

:girly:
Yes, as long as you don't think you actually have anything to contribute. You can cite all the facts and links you want, but the reality is that those links and facts are about people like Yue, David and Tommy. So I consider the source material to be infinitely more authoritative than your third party information. To put it so maybe you understand, what a high level GvGer thinks is a much better source of information than an article about what a high level GvGer thinks.

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 18:03
When someone asks "who r u" they are giving you a chance to prove that you are knowledgeable (or at least, credible). No one is going to give you credit for being knowledgeable just because you say you are. If you've got the stones to back up your moxie, then you won't have a problem whipping them out over and over again to shut people up.

Guess we have another person who can't understand as to why.



David means buying a membership in a gold trim guild, ffs. Ever heard of eF, for example?

Why would I want to do that? It's pretty much cheating. I dont think you have to be a high level pvp to know that. Also if you are a strict pvp only, how do you get your gold? Illegal gold farmer sites maybe? (I just hope you have enough pride not to resort to begging/borrowing/leeching)



David is not Tommy. Holy cow.

Normally you say hi after a person introduces a new person to you. HOLY COW!



Yes, as long as you don't think you actually have anything to contribute. You can cite all the facts and links you want, but the reality is that those links and facts are about people like Yue, David and Tommy. So I consider the source material to be infinitely more authoritative than your third party information. To put it so maybe you understand, what a high level GvGer thinks is a much better source of information than an article about what a high level GvGer thinks.

So where are these so called sources? I know Yue side, David is kind of light and 0 from Tommy.

David Holtzman
08-01-2008, 19:52
Nope, its against ANET EULA to buy accounts like that.

I said "cape" not "account." These are not the same thing.


I always try to forge my opinions on reality, simple as that.

How fascinating, so do we. That is why we demand evidence of your authority in the field. The authority that you seem to covet so greatly but seem so loathe to substantiate. No, no I don't think you really want reality at all. Reality demands truth and disclosure, and you don't seem interested in that. When you make statements about what should or should not be the case, you are making a claim based on your personal authority. If you have no personal authority, how precisely then are your claims backed?

rexkenley
08-01-2008, 21:10
I said "cape" not "account." These are not the same thing.

That point has already been clarified David. Please do not belabor and lets move on.



How fascinating, so do we. That is why we demand evidence of your authority in the field. The authority that you seem to covet so greatly but seem so loathe to substantiate.

David, since you have once again belabored several misconceptions, let me put it in bullet form and hope against hope it goes into your head

1.) I will never claim to be top player
2.) I will never try to impress anyone, nor will I covet any authority
3.) I post my opinions and I substantiate it as I saw fit.
4.) I always ask people how they come to their conclusions.
5.) I am not a stickler of proof, if you have it great, if not, explain your thought process



No, no I don't think you really want reality at all. Reality demands truth and disclosure, and you don't seem interested in that. When you make statements about what should or should not be the case, you are making a claim based on your personal authority. If you have no personal authority, how precisely then are your claims backed?

But I do think you are more interested in a witch hunt rather than discussion. Already several times I have asked for you to speak and explain your side, you failed miserably by resorting to attacks. So please be brave enough, to explain your thoughts on your side of the issue and stop wasting our time.

Azrael STX
08-01-2008, 22:38
Nope, I didn't realize I was playing trivia pusuit
Made me lol.

smrandom
09-01-2008, 00:16
1.) I will never claim to be top player
2.) I will never try to impress anyone, nor will I covet any authority
3.) I post my opinions and I substantiate it as I saw fit.
4.) I always ask people how they come to their conclusions.
5.) I am not a stickler of proof, if you have it great, if not, explain your thought process


1.) Yet you continue to comment on the state and future of high end PvP and disagree with those that are top players.
2.) Which means you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing and not because you have a point. This discussion was pretty much over when Yue posted.
3.) I heard justifying your own opinions to yourself is quite convincing.
4.) I'm pretty sure Yue and David have explained themselves despite not needing to. You have chosen to disagree for reasons that escape us.
5.) Judging from your responses to many of the remarks in this thread, I'm not sure that will ever be a successful undertaking.

If you want thought process:

My word's really all that's necessary for this discussion. If that's not good enough, ask someone else who's not a scrub.

PS: Don't ask someone who's a scrub.

David Holtzman
09-01-2008, 02:03
David, since you have once again belabored several misconceptions, let me put it in bullet form and hope against hope it goes into your head

I've seen your points, I am not impressed. While you desperately seem to want us to think you're too cool (or whatever) to want to impress your credentials on us, you constantly push your way into discussions where some set of credentials is required. Your opinions in these arenas are often quite silly, and you demand all manner of unreasonable proof every time you're brushed off as yet one more wannabe who just doesn't know what he's talking about.

Let me explain this to you as clearly as possible. It is not my job to educate you on high level PvP. If you say something that is asinine or obviously wrong, I'm just going to point it out and then ignore it. I don't need to spend several pages explaining to you the intricacies of the situation so that you can see why it's wrong too. If you would like to hire me as a GW PvP tutor, that's one thing. So long as I am on my own time though, I have better things to do than show you in detail how everything works.

Yue
09-01-2008, 04:23
Also if you are a strict pvp only, how do you get your gold? Illegal gold farmer sites maybe?

I herd selling cape trims, champ point range guilds, and zaishen keys make some decent gold.

rexkenley
23-01-2008, 23:13
I heard from the "L33t" grapevine that Delta Formation has a sister guild formed specifically to train new talent.

If it's I say kudos to DF for doing what they can spice up the pvp play. If it isn't true, maybe this would be a very good idea to implement. :heart:

cammy
28-01-2008, 07:25
If you would like to hire me as a GW PvP tutor, that's one thing.

/pickme Mr. Hammer

Vela
28-01-2008, 16:14
I herd selling cape trims, .................. make some decent gold.

I know this happens a lot. I know people who sell and buy. Well this is definitely the most retarded thing to do IMHO. Why would I like to buy-in a membership of DF or any such guild with gold cape trims when I actually was not even part of the guild when it earned its gold cape or did what it needed to do to earn it?

Then again, people like to do several things such as spending 20mln+ Gold on Kanaxai minipet. TBH, how can you make that much via honest means? Seriously, you don't.

Yue
28-01-2008, 17:37
Alot of people just like how the trim looks. They don't care if they were involved in getting it or not.

David Holtzman
28-01-2008, 23:19
TBH, how can you make that much via honest means? Seriously, you don't.

What, of course you can make that much. Over time, I've probably made that much myself through keys and sigils and other rare stuff I've picked up. And I am notoriously unlucky when it comes to drops. Someone who corners a market (like after the price resets) could make that much in a day. Someone who decides to play the market all day could do that too. I've known some people who really enjoyed that and they can't even hold the ectos anymore.

Ranger Nietzsche
29-01-2008, 00:02
I've got a guildy with a completely full materials storage. All legit.


Early day Tombs players made TONS selling sigils and other rare skins. My guild leader dropped a r8 15^50 crystalline in fall 05.

I had a friend who was in the first guild to own cavalon. Farmed zodiac stuff and made millions.



When Zaishen keys were 5k, there were GvGers with 2000 reward points. Which is 2 million gold.

Vela
29-01-2008, 16:44
What, of course you can make that much. Over time, I've probably made that much myself through keys and sigils and other rare stuff I've picked up. And I am notoriously unlucky when it comes to drops. Someone who corners a market (like after the price resets) could make that much in a day. Someone who decides to play the market all day could do that too. I've known some people who really enjoyed that and they can't even hold the ectos anymore.

Keyword here is "over time". For one playing for almost 3 years, I would not disagree that one can make over 20 mln in cash & kind. However, how many of us actually saved them to buy a minipet? The thing is you don't. And if you are going to tell me this person who is buying a minipet for 20 mln gold does not have other exotics on his account, it will be quite hard to believe too. Because, people who do this, don't just buy one but, go for multiple.

Anyhow, sorry for derailing the topic.

Yue
29-01-2008, 18:33
Took me three days to make 3 mil off zkeys.

David Holtzman
29-01-2008, 20:27
Keyword here is "over time". For one playing for almost 3 years, I would not disagree that one can make over 20 mln in cash & kind. However, how many of us actually saved them to buy a minipet?

I made my money over time sure, but I also spent it on aesthetics for myself that have no return. If I had say spent my 20M on ectos when they were low and sold when they were high, then I'd have 30M. And I could buy weapons cheaply and sell them for more, and so on. There's a hundred ways I could turn that much starting capital into far more, I just don't personally care to. There are people who do though, and for them they want these ultra expensive rare whatever. Remember that these insane prices are a combined factor of what the sellers demand and what the market can bear.

maricarso
28-03-2008, 11:29
yeah, GvG has been down...sometimes, we have to wait for 15 minutes or so to finally get an opponent...How I wish anet would do something about it. I understand there are cool prizes for top guilds, but how about the rest of the guilds out there with no rank? Some of us are usually playing for fun and not as competitive as we would like to due to rl activities...however, when winning a match, it'll be cool if we could also get some kind of a fame that'll help us earn a cool emote...I really love the emote you cld earn n HA...however, I love GvG...and GvG involves more on thinking and not just killing! ;)