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View Full Version : How to make Luxon/Kurzick titles mean something



Eric Blair
30-01-2008, 03:41
Whenever you see someone with a high rank Gladiator title, you can safely assume that they are a competent enough PvP player because they actually have to get winning streaks to earn the title points. While there are some exceptions (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5258194&postcount=25), generally speaking, having a glad title means something. However, this does not hold true for Luxon/Kurzick titles because it's possible to reach rank 12 without ever winning a match.

I propose that Guild Wars track the number of AB games played, and either factor it into your title, or simply display it along side your rank. Also, it should display a percentage showing how much of your faction was earned in AB. Obviously, the less number of games it took to get your present title, the better an ABer you are. Of course, Guild Wars would stop counting once you reach max level, since after that playing additional games would "dilute" your title, but it would still show how few matches it took you to earn the title. This, I believe, is the purpose of having PvP titles in the first place: to announce your skill and ability without having to say a word. The current allegiance title system does not accomplish that.

the ettins kiss
30-01-2008, 09:57
Whenever you see someone with a high rank Gladiator title, you can safely assume that they are a competent enough PvP player because they actually have to get winning streaks to earn the title points. While there are some exceptions (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5258194&postcount=25), generally speaking, having a glad title means something. However, this does not hold true for Luxon/Kurzick titles because it's possible to reach rank 12 without ever winning a match.

I propose that Guild Wars track the number of AB games played, and either factor it into your title, or simply display it along side your rank. Also, it should display a percentage showing how much of your faction was earned in AB. Obviously, the less number of games it took to get your present title, the better an ABer you are. Of course, Guild Wars would stop counting once you reach max level, since after that playing additional games would "dilute" your title, but it would still show how few matches it took you to earn the title. This, I believe, is the purpose of having PvP titles in the first place: to announce your skill and ability without having to say a word. The current allegiance title system does not accomplish that.

So basically what you are saying is.... that if you do HFFF for 100% of your title, you become 1337 at AB?
You can reach max Kz/Lx without ever doing AB at all.
I think the problem of the Kz/Lx allegiance titles are that they are farmed by not doing AB at a far more efficient rate. I hear you can do 10K Kz in half an hour, AB can not even come close to that amount of faction in half an hour.

chirthain
30-01-2008, 15:05
So basically what you are saying is.... that if you do HFFF for 100% of your title, you become 1337 at AB?
You can reach max Kz/Lx without ever doing AB at all.
I think the problem of the Kz/Lx allegiance titles are that they are farmed by not doing AB at a far more efficient rate. I hear you can do 10K Kz in half an hour, AB can not even come close to that amount of faction in half an hour.

Well, you're right about that.. you can max your kurzick/luxon title without even doing AB, but how many people do that? It takes ALOT of time, you know.. And I don't really believe the 10k in half an hour, to be honest.

oles
30-01-2008, 16:34
Well, you're right about that.. you can max your kurzick/luxon title without even doing AB, but how many people do that? It takes ALOT of time, you know.. And I don't really believe the 10k in half an hour, to be honest.

It's actually 10k donated / 20k toward the title in 30-35 minutes.

liamSlayer
30-01-2008, 17:13
It's actually 10k donated / 20k toward the title in 30-35 minutes.

And how on earth do you do that? :huh:

Eric Blair
30-01-2008, 17:13
So basically what you are saying is.... that if you do HFFF for 100% of your title, you become 1337 at AB?
You can reach max Kz/Lx without ever doing AB at all.
I think the problem of the Kz/Lx allegiance titles are that they are farmed by not doing AB at a far more efficient rate. I hear you can do 10K Kz in half an hour, AB can not even come close to that amount of faction in half an hour.

You misunderstand. The purpose of having the percentage show is to give people an idea of how much of your faction was fast-farmed. In other words, having a low AB match count will only be good if 90% of your faction was earned there. That same low match-count will be bad if your title shows something like 10% of your title coming from AB games.

oles
30-01-2008, 17:36
And how on earth do you do that? :huh:

You don't even have to do anything, almost nothing. Just go to Lutgardis and join one of the hfff groups as a leecher.
People advertise to pick up leechers there all the time. You pay them 100g per run, and all you have to do is accept quest rewards. Considering that the quest gives 150g and 2000exp, you are still making some small money and tons of exp.
A run takes between 45sec to 1 minute, depending on how fast the farmer is. The zoning takes another 15 seconds. 25 runs then give 25x400 = 10k faction earned, in 30-35 minutes (also 50k exp). This equals to 20k faction toward the title.

This is also the preffered way of getting Legendary Survivor, because there's absolutely no risk of dying. The closest you come to fighting is a couple of red dots some 2 agro circles away, regardless of whether you are the farmer or the leecher.

oles
30-01-2008, 17:48
You misunderstand. The purpose of having the percentage show is to give people an idea of how much of your faction was fast-farmed. In other words, having a low AB match count will only be good if 90% of your faction was earned there. That same low match-count will be bad if your title shows something like 10% of your title coming from AB games.

There's another problem with AB titles.
Old school ABers have gotten most of their faction before the double title track update.

If you have 2 players with 4 million faction each, and player A has gotten all his AB faction before the update, and player B has gotten all his faction after the update, player A has played close to 4000 AB battles, while player B has played only ~1300 AB battles.

That is to say, preupdate faction is worth 3 times the AB experience compared to postupdate faction.

Alaris
30-01-2008, 18:09
Just go to Lutgardis and join one of the hfff groups as a leecher. People advertise to pick up leechers there all the time.

Nice...

Two Q's. (1) Is there a luxon equivalent? (2) Is there a guide / requirements for actually doing the run?

Thanks.

Eric Blair
30-01-2008, 18:24
There's another problem with AB titles.
Old school ABers have gotten most of their faction before the double title track update.

If you have 2 players with 4 million faction each, and player A has gotten all his AB faction before the update, and player B has gotten all his faction after the update, player A has played close to 4000 AB battles, while player B has played only ~1300 AB battles.

That is to say, preupdate faction is worth 3 times the AB experience compared to postupdate faction.

Very good point. I would like to retract my proposal and state that Luxon/Kurzick titles cannot/will not ever mean anything. I realize now that having a title be tied to both PvE and PvP assures that it can never be taken seriously, regardless of potential changes.

Alaris
30-01-2008, 18:41
Very good point. I would like to retract my proposal and state that Luxon/Kurzick titles cannot/will not ever mean anything. I realize now that having a title be tied to both PvE and PvP assures that it can never be taken seriously, regardless of potential changes.

Technically, you could just display the number of wins and losses in AB. Assuming that the information is available.

Ranger Nietzsche
30-01-2008, 19:12
He's right though. A title that is farmed in two types of areas can be no representation of skill in either area.

Its like if glad points were also offered for streaks in Zaishen Elite.


Nice...

Two Q's. (1) Is there a luxon equivalent? (2) Is there a guide / requirements for actually doing the run?

Thanks.

The Luxon equivalent is much slower and involves doing the Jade Arena quest (where you kill the monsters in that pit near Breaker Hollow) its about 1/2 as fast.

No requirements its just a run, any class that can run can do it (and just do X/A for anything really)

guide:http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/FFF

the thing is if you use flags right you can solo it with heroes and not need multiple runners (which is what the people picking up leechers are doing

Alaris
30-01-2008, 19:34
He's right though. A title that is farmed in two types of areas can be no representation of skill in either area.

guide:http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/FFF

Thanks.

I guess I'll have to go practice the solo run, sounds like a better source of money than AB!

the ettins kiss
30-01-2008, 20:40
You misunderstand. The purpose of having the percentage show is to give people an idea of how much of your faction was fast-farmed. In other words, having a low AB match count will only be good if 90% of your faction was earned there. That same low match-count will be bad if your title shows something like 10% of your title coming from AB games.

Indeed it seems I have misread, my apologies.
But if it where possible to display percentages played in AB vs FFF, it should also be possible to seperate it into 2 different title tracks. However, this will be very unlikely to happen.
There are very few titles that indicate skill or experience anyway, as most of them are farmed. I suppose the Lx/Kz allegiance title track isn't anything special in that regard.

Eric Blair
30-01-2008, 22:26
...I suppose the Lx/Kz allegiance title track isn't anything special in that regard.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

Kendel
31-01-2008, 09:52
Whenever you see someone with a high rank Gladiator title, you can safely assume that they are a competent enough PvP player because they actually have to get winning streaks to earn the title points.

RA rage-quitters beg to differ. They couldn't play their way out of a paper bag without a monk.

The only problem with the allegiance title is the 2 methods to get it suck. FFF is dull but good faction/hour. Alliance Battles gives **** all and can be no fun too depending on how good your allies are. Adding another wouldn't help in the slightest... improving the existing ones would.

oles
31-01-2008, 12:28
RA rage-quitters beg to differ. They couldn't play their way out of a paper bag without a monk.

The only problem with the allegiance title is the 2 methods to get it suck. FFF is dull but good faction/hour. Alliance Battles gives **** all and can be no fun too depending on how good your allies are. Adding another wouldn't help in the slightest... improving the existing ones would.

I disagree strongly. I have an r10 title to back that up. 70% earned before double faction update, and 25% after.
What do you have, nubmuffin? Can you show your credentials or are you gonna keep mouthing off, like you do EVERYWHERE? I'm sorry about this, but this guy has to stop posting. It's annoying. Stop acting like you are the ****.

So, you and me? Match of the century:smiley: . Pick your place, time, and builds. Be that 1v1 or TA/HA/GvG. I have competent friends. You? Shall we get it on?

Ugly Betty
01-02-2008, 01:29
let me get this straight. you want luxon/kurzick titles to mean something? don't they already mean something? don't they mean you did some quests/missions/FA/JQ/AB? that's good enough. so what if it means you're a nubcake in PvP? that's why there's the hero and champion track.

good grief. let the titles alone. or flashing you wolfie in AB will cease to have meaning. :laughing:

shardfenix
01-02-2008, 03:29
PvP titles have never been meaningful. Anet will never change it. Deal with it.

raspberry jam
01-02-2008, 07:38
One way to make the allegiance title track sort of meaningful would be to allow allegiance skills to be used in AB.

Kendel
01-02-2008, 07:38
I disagree strongly. I have an r10 title to back that up. 70% earned before double faction update, and 25% after.
What do you have, nubmuffin? Can you show your credentials or are you gonna keep mouthing off, like you do EVERYWHERE? I'm sorry about this, but this guy has to stop posting. It's annoying. Stop acting like you are the ****.

So, you and me? Match of the century:smiley: . Pick your place, time, and builds. Be that 1v1 or TA/HA/GvG. I have competent friends. You? Shall we get it on?

Sorry but what exactly was that reply in response to? Your r10... what exactly? r10 Allegiance? Well good for you... now other than whining at me what exactly did you have to say on my post? I can quite safely say my r8, which has mostly come from HFF, is utterly worthless. The amount i've gained from ABing is absolutely pathetic and the time spent doing it is probably more so. I would've much rather do HFF for all of the Allegience title then go do something else in the time i'd save not doing AB for it. That way i'd be less annoyed when the other teams are useless and we lose miserably since i don't need the faction.

shawn
01-02-2008, 08:53
I disagree strongly. I have an r10 title to back that up. 70% earned before double faction update, and 25% after.
What do you have, nubmuffin? Can you show your credentials or are you gonna keep mouthing off, like you do EVERYWHERE? I'm sorry about this, but this guy has to stop posting. It's annoying. Stop acting like you are the ****.

So, you and me? Match of the century:smiley: . Pick your place, time, and builds. Be that 1v1 or TA/HA/GvG. I have competent friends. You? Shall we get it on?
I heard you're from The Furies. Is that why you never disclose your guild to anyone when asked? Can we get a c/d??

I was core monk for both FFs'es and am in DF. What do you have, nubmuffin? Can you show your credentials or are you gonna keep mouthing off, like you do EVERYWHERE? I'm sorry about this, but this guy has to stop posting. It's annoying. Stop acting like you are the ****.

Reiq
01-02-2008, 09:08
I disagree strongly. I have an r10 title to back that up. 70% earned before double faction update, and 25% after.
What do you have, nubmuffin?

You do realize that only adds up to 95%.

Rhadix
01-02-2008, 10:53
You do realize that only adds up to 95%.

5% Bonus for Awesomeness :wink:

Ugly Betty
01-02-2008, 22:49
why oh why are we discussing a title track that for all intents and purposes is a PvE track? i thought this was a PvP forum. FA, JQ :laughing:, and AB are not and never will be organized PvP. they are just optional ways to get faction for PvE skills or Jade. who the **** cares if they don't reflect a "winning" (and i use the term lightly) record? the only reason outside of PvE faction to go into these "arenas" is to PK the nubcakes - period.

the ettins kiss
02-02-2008, 21:32
why oh why are we discussing a title track that for all intents and purposes is a PvE track? i thought this was a PvP forum. FA, JQ :laughing:, and AB are not and never will be organized PvP. they are just optional ways to get faction for PvE skills or Jade. who the **** cares if they don't reflect a "winning" (and i use the term lightly) record? the only reason outside of PvE faction to go into these "arenas" is to PK the nubcakes - period.

Well it could be said that this is the AB section, where else?

Why do you even post on GWO? Are there even 5 posters on the entire forum you like? Or does it make you feel 1337 to be negative each and every post.

Ora
03-02-2008, 03:26
The original idea to have a title based on %AB won has 2 more problems:

a) i don't think past wins/losses can be tracked. So even an experienced AB'er would have to start from scratch. Means: the title would not help to find experienced players anytime soon.
b) one would have to figure in on which map the win was achieved.
Simply put: A win in Kaanai shows way more skill than a win in Ancestral (Kurz point of view)

Kendel
03-02-2008, 16:02
Yeah but even then it doesn't show anything. Especially at this late stage.

You could've AB'd none stop for ages but done very little since the introduction of such a thing.
You could've been very unlucky with your allies. Lets face it, nothing YOU do has much of an impact on the outcome of an AB. Its the teams as a whole.
Victories in Kaanai for a Kurzick are even less to do with your ability. If too many people on your team suck, you'll lose no matter what happens. If your opponents are very good also, you simply don't stand a chance.
And of course its down to leavers/afk's.

Ranger Nietzsche
04-02-2008, 19:06
Oles feel free to repost that in the new thread I made on introductions, but thats where I'm going to redirect all such things from now on (hopefully).

Buddah
04-02-2008, 20:51
Honestly feel it's pointless to change the Alliance Faction System just because of AB. At the same time it doesn't address FA or JQ. Alliance Faction is meant as a catch all for aiding said Faction, which in it's current form is handled.


Just be glad AB gives Balth faction as well.

Jaimes Laig Romarto
09-02-2008, 10:46
Reduce FFF faction rewards so that not only the last 2 maps in AB give more faction than fff per hour.

Vela
11-02-2008, 16:21
If you set a goal in front of someone, that person will find the shortest and the fastest way to reach there. If that person can't, he/she is incompetent. Now, with 10M target, what is the fastest way to get there? HFFF or AB? HFFF, of course.

I have done ONLY AB till I reached lvl 6 Lux as I was not aware of the HFFF. I realized only when I needed to unlock a Luxon skill and was waiting for several minutes for an AB match. I do not know what Luxon and Kurzick Titles should mean. I do not believe it should mean anything specific to PvP as they are more or less "favor" title. IMHO, it should only mean which faction/side you prefer over the other.

But, I will definitely appreciate if ANET again starts using their creative heads and modify AB in such way so that people can opt for either instead of choosing one path only. I believe AB needs to reward way more factions to the winner (at least 3k per win) in order to remain competitive with HFFF.

SchvagnumPI
13-02-2008, 01:55
Reduce FFF faction rewards so that not only the last 2 maps in AB give more faction than fff per hour.
That would be kinda harsh on the PvE exclusive players. I think as many have already said, an increase in faction for actually playing rather than grinding is neeeded.