Looks like DF was sold... [Archive]

Yue

31-01-2008, 18:45

The way the member system in our guild is that there are three ways to join the guild: 1) You're recruited as part of the gvg team, in which you automatically are an officer, 2) You're a friend of an officer and they invite you (and officers can typically invite their friends fairly freely), 3) You gibs lots o gold.

As per topic, looks like the #1 guild has been sold. Just saw a bunch of gold capes getting pwned in HA to Sway teams. All german and french names, or so it seemed.

I don't know most of the members in the guild, but as far as I'm aware of, we do have several who do alot of HA. As for the core gvg team, I think there's only one of us that actually does HA. Most of us have wolves and deers.

Most gold-caped guilds sell their memberships to many folks who seemingly like wearing gold capes w/o contributing to the very factor that had earned it.

This is pretty much it. Before Zaishen keys, this was pretty much the only way for GvGers to make large amounts of money.

Usually, guilds that sell membership positions makes it very clear that only the original members are allowed to GvG.

I think every guild that has sold memberships also have barred them from speaking in alliance chat. Most also don't allow them from talking in guild chat, though we aren't enforcers of that rule. To make things easy, we just have the gvg team as officers, and the rest as members.

Ranger Nietzsche

31-01-2008, 18:49

i think the rumors that yall were breaking up fueled the idea that the whole thing was sold.

David Holtzman

31-01-2008, 19:15

I think every guild that has sold memberships also have barred them from speaking in alliance chat.

I know rawr didn't do this. Not that it matters much with the whole two guilds in their alliance, but still.

shawn

01-02-2008, 00:34

lol .

Vela

04-02-2008, 14:08

I think every guild that has sold memberships also have barred them from speaking in alliance chat. Most also don't allow them from talking in guild chat, though we aren't enforcers of that rule. To make things easy, we just have the gvg team as officers, and the rest as members.

What is this.... a virtual bullpen of pixelated slaves? Funnily, some idiots do pay for this stuff.... BDSM redefined. :grin::shocked::grin:

David Holtzman

04-02-2008, 14:21

Vela

04-02-2008, 20:34

They're not slaves, they can leave any time they want. They want the gold capes (or whatever color), but the guild that earned them doesn't want these members ruining their reputation by talking to the allies. These people are also generally pretty annoying so barring them from GC can be a good move too.

Half Slaves then..'coz they sure are not free.

Anyhow, I find the whole concept very retarded from the perspective of people who intend to join like this or such terms and conditions. Why would sane people do that?

David Holtzman

05-02-2008, 02:19

Vela

09-02-2008, 15:52

Of course they're free, don't be silly. They voluntarily chose to buy into a contract that limited certain of their rights. They can voluntarily and without notice break that contract too (although it means the forfeiture of the obligations of the other contracting party). Suggesting they are "slaves" is as stupid as suggesting that apartment tenants are slaves because of a "no pets" rule. Sane people do this because they want another +1 on the epeen chart, and Gold Capes will do that.

Day of Guildwars AFK! A day to visit forums and to resurrect old posts..a nice day indeed.

David - Here are a few things you need to understand:

1. Slave is a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person. When he chooses to set himself free, he no longer remains a slave. Many a revolution came from this notion. English may not be my first language but, Webster is there to help and is generally right kind of help.

2. Contract is an agreement between two or more people to do something, esp. one formally set forth in writing and enforceable by law. There is a huge difference between "no talk" rule vs. "no pets" rule in real world. There is no apartment owner who can come and make me sign a contract that violates my fundamental rights. In a court of law that contract will be null and void.

3. Guild is an association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards. When you argue the status of the people buying into such so-called "contract" that obviously limits their rights to reduce them into ignoble creatures, I say in that particular state, they are treated as slaves and they are not treated as a member of the guild having mutual interests and same standards. Hence, the contract that you talk of is simply a sham because it is for the membership of a guild pursuing a different set of interests. If you still insist they are not slaves because they can simply leave if they want to, I would like you to understand that slavery is a state and a person in such a state is a slave like many of us are in everyday life even when we think we are not. But, if they break free, ergo leave the guild, they are not slaves anymore.

So, in simplistic terms, what I have been saying is that certain people (losers IMHO) prefer to buy into a certain state of slavery for whatever godforsaken pleasure that they derive out of it. So, Mr. Holtzman, it is not silly, its elementary.

This is the same reason you have PvE people going off and grabbing all the top loot they can.

Then explain me as to why PvP people join many a PvE folks, yours truly included, in their quest to obtain top loots such as a shiny tormented shield or an eternal sword? And this definitely includes some of your ex-guildies and currently, many top PvP guildies. :) From now on STOP using the term "PvE People"! :laugh: We all are slaves of cash, PvE or PvP.

Time to go back check on my lucky points and remaining tickets! Have a nice day.

Shuuda

09-02-2008, 22:53

I cannot go into how pathetic people who buy their way into Trim Guilds are in my opinion. They should have their rights taken away if they intend to increase their penis by leeching off the work of others. The guilds that make them pay for membership are genius for taking advantage of such greed or stupidity.

Yue

10-02-2008, 03:30

The guilds that make them pay for membership are genius for taking advantage of such greed or stupidity.

---DAMRITE---

Tsai Cooper

12-02-2008, 17:16

make me sign

They(the idiots buying in) are not forced to do anything. They signed away their rights of their own accord, and have personally amde the decision that losing the benefits of a guild in which they can talk is worthing looking cool among people that dont even know what a gold trim means.

Not to mention, the mere fact that they would reach a conclusion like that shows they probably dont deserve the right to talk anyway...idiots.

Vela

12-02-2008, 18:20

They(the idiots buying in) are not forced to do anything. They signed away their rights of their own accord, and have personally amde the decision that losing the benefits of a guild in which they can talk is worthing looking cool among people that dont even know what a gold trim means.

Not to mention, the mere fact that they would reach a conclusion like that shows they probably dont deserve the right to talk anyway...idiots.

lol why did you pick up 3 words from my post and use them out of context? I used those three words in reference to the apartment analogy David used and has got nothing to do with losers getting into some gold caped guild.

Also, these idiots technically do not sign anything. Some of these idiots don't even know what they are getting into till they spend/waste their money. At any rate, the whole thing is a sham and that's all I have to say about it.

Asbjornsalech

12-02-2008, 18:29

i've never seen a gold trim ever and never will, i just don't get whyt people buy their way in, when they are told when to talk, eat, bath and so on, but ok it's their decision.

Yue

12-02-2008, 18:52

We don't tell them when to talk, eat, or bathe. All we do is tell them not to talk. Pretty simple rule.

Dogbert

12-02-2008, 20:28

I cannot go into how pathetic people who buy their way into Trim Guilds are in my opinion.

Indeed. Why not buy the guild instead? :D

David Holtzman

12-02-2008, 22:20

1. Slave is a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person.

If he has the ability to stay or go at his own volition, then per your definition he is not "entirely under the domination" of a person and is not a slave. To be entirely under someone's domination is to not have that choice. Your own definition proves analytically that you cannot be correct.

In a court of law that contract will be null and void.

You seem to know very little about the law. Do you know what an NDA is? It stands for Non Disclosure Agreement, and it is an absolutely legal contract that binds what you are and are not allowed to say. Speech in a certain place or at a certain time or of a certain type can absolutely be prohibited, especially if you agree to it (which you do upon paying your fee).

Your third point doesn't even really make sense. You seem to be confusing the term "guild" as it applies to real life organizations (e.g. the lawyer's guild or mason's guild) with how it is defined in GW, which is what we are talking about.

Then explain me as to why PvP people join many a PvE folks, yours truly included, in their quest to obtain top loots such as a shiny tormented shield or an eternal sword?

Um, vanity obviously. Why does this matter?

raspberry jam

13-02-2008, 06:09

You seem to know very little about the law. Do you know what an NDA is? It stands for Non Disclosure Agreement, and it is an absolutely legal contract that binds what you are and are not allowed to say. Speech in a certain place or at a certain time or of a certain type can absolutely be prohibited, especially if you agree to it (which you do upon paying your fee).Just to point out, non-disclosure agreements only stipulate that you are not allowed to say anything about a certain thing. It does not say anything about which channels you may use to communicate about anything else (or even which channels might be ok to disclose the subject of the NDA - it's the disclosure itself that is prohibited, not disclosure using certain channels). And a non-disclosure agreement that states that you can't say anything at all, about anything, would have problems standing up in court, or so I imagine.

Prohibiting people from using guild or alliance chat is nothing like a non-disclosure agreement. It's more like not allowing your employees to use the company's phones. Which, in itself, might be completely legal and valid in all ways. But why is this really an issue? The buy-in members haven't signed a contract. There is no paperwork, no notarization, no storage, just a "yeah i agree", at best (assuming ANet won't provide chat logs) preserved in a screenshot, which no court would accept as evidence - but then again, doesn't have to. A guild leader or guild officer can kick any member for any reason or for no reason except feeling like it, so I have a hard time seeing why people pretend that there is anything contractual about this.

smrandom

13-02-2008, 18:58

Contracts don't need to be in writing. The actions of the persons involved can be interpreted to deem the existence of an agreement between the parties.

In this case, the "contract" is more like a license than an executory contract. The guild member does not have any actual performance obligations upon becoming a member. The "no use of guild chat" rule is a condition of the license (as is the absurd, but lucrative-for-Yue invitation fee of 100K). Violation of the condition results in the license being revoked, which Yue and the other members of DF are completely entitled to do.

Anyway, I find it hard to believe there is any cause or merit in defending a person who paid his or her way in to a guild simply for the sake of gold trim.

Vela

13-02-2008, 20:40

You seem to know very little about the law. Do you know what an NDA is? It stands for Non Disclosure Agreement, and it is an absolutely legal contract that binds what you are and are not allowed to say.

David, I had many leather bound books and you had just a hammer. :) Jokes aside, you have made this slaves vs. non-slaves issue more of a personal argument than anything else. You are trying to justify something that is not even contested. I am NOT defending people who are buying into slavery. Unfortunately in your quest to prove me wrong about the term "slavery", you are using terms which are completely out of context while possessing zero knowledge about them. Anyhow, I loved how you tried to shoot me point-blank regarding my knowledge of law in the first sentence and then in the following statement you proved the muzzle was pointing only to your own forehead. BANG!

Anyhow, for your edification, NDA is mostly used to protect certain intellectual property an entity such as a company of people (e.g., IBM, Microsoft, Oracle etc.) may have developed or acquired. Haha, of course, if you have stolen the matter in the first place, you better not try and execute an NDA in a court of law. If that term even looooooooosely applies to GW, it probably will be in the context of game tactics that a guild and its members use. A member will be prohibited by NDA to disclose those tactics to others.

Seriously, give up on legal terminologies, they don't hold water in GW world.

Just to point out, non-disclosure agreements only stipulate that you are not allowed to say anything about a certain thing. It does not say anything about which channels you may use to communicate about anything else (or even which channels might be ok to disclose the subject of the NDA - it's the disclosure itself that is prohibited, not disclosure using certain channels). And a non-disclosure agreement that states that you can't say anything at all, about anything, would have problems standing up in court, or so I imagine.

Thanks!

Contracts don't need to be in writing. The actions of the persons involved can be interpreted to deem the existence of an agreement between the parties.
.........
.........
I find it hard to believe there is any cause or merit in defending a person who paid his or her way in to a guild simply for the sake of gold trim.

Yes, it does not need to be in writing always. But, its implementation and implications will be varied depending on if it was written or not. And, there is no cause or merit in defending a person who buys into slavery on his own volition (hmm, like that word).

Yue

13-02-2008, 22:12

Wow who gives a ****. A bunch of idiots wanna pay to look good, and all they gotta do is keep their mouth shut. It's a mutual agreement, and they can cancel it anytime. How exactly does that have anything to do with slavery?

neoflame

13-02-2008, 23:06

Vela: David's analogy to NDAs might be faulty, but his point that your own definition of a slave shows that people stupid enough to buy a DF membership are not slaves is sound.

David Holtzman

13-02-2008, 23:48

It does not say anything about which channels you may use to communicate about anything else (or even which channels might be ok to disclose the subject of the NDA - it's the disclosure itself that is prohibited, not disclosure using certain channels).

I agree, but this is somewhat irrelevant. Vela's point was that no contract could abridge the "fundamental rights," which I took to mean freedom of expression. My point with the NDA was not that it was a like case to not being allowed to talk in Alliance Chat, but rather that it dispelled the notion that no contract could abridge freedom of speech. Once I have that established I can then go on to make like cases for the case under examination.

There are plenty of like cases I can choose from, the best of which is the military case. A soldier in fact can be legally told to not talk to a certain set of people, much as the people who buy membership can also be told not to talk to the rest of the alliance. In fact, most every organization has rules about talking to the press (should that be of issue) that can be analogized with the current case. The member isn't being told that he cannot speak at all, remember, but rather that he may not speak to a specific group of people. Actually, he even has more freedom than this in that he may speak to those people through non-official channels.

You are incorrect though in thinking that this is not a contractual agreement. A contract is an agreement that contains duties and rights to both sides. In this case the guild has the claim right to have the member follow certain rules (a "claim right" meaning that there is a corresponding obligation on the part of the other contracting party) and to receive payment, the member has the right to keep the membership. True, nothing is signed, but that is really not important. The signing of something is a legal formality designed to safeguard the contractual process, it is not identical with the process itself.

************************************************** ********

You are trying to justify something that is not even contested. I am NOT defending people who are buying into slavery.

That's good, because no one here is. I most certainly would defend people buying into cape trim guilds, but that has absolutely nothing to do with slavery.

raspberry jam

14-02-2008, 00:19

There are plenty of like cases I can choose from, the best of which is the military case. A soldier in fact can be legally told to not talk to a certain set of people, much as the people who buy membership can also be told not to talk to the rest of the alliance.A soldier can be ordered to do (or not do) a lot of things that would seem to remove his fundamental rights, but that's legal just because of a (in most nations) huge set of laws regulating the military.

In fact, most every organization has rules about talking to the press (should that be of issue) that can be analogized with the current case. The member isn't being told that he cannot speak at all, remember, but rather that he may not speak to a specific group of people.The press is an outside agency. What we are talking about are people who are told to not speak in guild chat, which only can be analogized to "don't speak loudly while in the club house, unless you are an 'A' member".

You are incorrect though in thinking that this is not a contractual agreement. A contract is an agreement that contains duties and rights to both sides. In this case the guild has the claim right to have the member follow certain rules (a "claim right" meaning that there is a corresponding obligation on the part of the other contracting party) and to receive payment, the member has the right to keep the membership. True, nothing is signed, but that is really not important. The signing of something is a legal formality designed to safeguard the contractual process, it is not identical with the process itself.Hmm... Well, I'm not a native English speaker, forgive me if I used the word "contractual" in the wrong way.
What I meant was: In most countries, an agreement is only binding if you can actually prove that it exists. That means a signed piece of paper, or maybe witnesses, or an electronic signature, or similar. Something you say to someone in a dark room with no one else listening often have a hard time standing up in court. Screenshots, especially from a game, would also be rejected as evidence, or at least that's what I would guess.
If the member in question had the right to keep the membership, what is he supposed to do if he gets kicked even though he followed the rules? Call the Lionguard for help?

Anyway, I find it hard to believe there is any cause or merit in defending a person who paid his or her way in to a guild simply for the sake of gold trim.I feel the same.

smrandom

14-02-2008, 00:23

David, I had many leather bound books and you had just a hammer. :) Jokes aside, you have made this slaves vs. non-slaves issue more of a personal argument than anything else. You are trying to justify something that is not even contested. I am NOT defending people who are buying into slavery. Unfortunately in your quest to prove me wrong about the term "slavery", you are using terms which are completely out of context while possessing zero knowledge about them. Anyhow, I loved how you tried to shoot me point-blank regarding my knowledge of law in the first sentence and then in the following statement you proved the muzzle was pointing only to your own forehead. BANG!

Your use of the term "slavery" is overly broad and vague. "Slavery", in the context of American vernacular, has a very specific meaning and connotation. Accordingly, to imply one is either propogating or condoning slavery is somewhat of a serious insult and accusation, even if the general definition is written in a more neutral tone. I think the term you probably wanted to use was "servitude" which has a far less inflamatory connotation. However, it's still a mischaracterization as I explained above.

Anyhow, for your edification, NDA is mostly used to protect certain intellectual property an entity such as a company of people (e.g., IBM, Microsoft, Oracle etc.) may have developed or acquired. Haha, of course, if you have stolen the matter in the first place, you better not try and execute an NDA in a court of law. If that term even looooooooosely applies to GW, it probably will be in the context of game tactics that a guild and its members use. A member will be prohibited by NDA to disclose those tactics to others.

This is inaccurate. The subject of any NDA or Confidentiality Agreement is defined in the agreement itself and encompasses far more than just intellectual property. NDAs, simply put, prevent the disclosure of confidential or proprietary information. More specifically, they prevent a person from disclosing any information that the Company considers to be confidential or proprietary. While intellectual property is certainly a part of the confidential information protected by the NDA, it also includes such things as financial records, customer lists, employee personal information, company plans and forecasts, etc. The easy way to think about it is this: if it's not public (as in publicly known or available), it's private and probably covered by your Confidentiality Agreement.

In any event, I don't think the example of the NDA was an attempt to apply legal terminology to GW. I think it was an example of an agreement a person willingly makes to restrict his ability to do something he would otherwise be entitled to do. As no one in their right mind would consider signing a NDA an agreement to enter into any form of slavery, the example is not irrelevant.

Yes, it does not need to be in writing always. But, its implementation and implications will be varied depending on if it was written or not. And, there is no cause or merit in defending a person who buys into slavery on his own volition (hmm, like that word).

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. No contract ever needs to be in writing. The only reason you put any agreement in writing is for the purpose of having it recognized by a third party. The only situation where it matters whether a contract is in writing or not is when one or both parties disagree.

You may disagree with the conditions for membership in DF, but I'm not sure you're aware of the level of insult you are conveying by characterizing it as slavery.

Vela

14-02-2008, 00:44

Vela: David's analogy to NDAs might be faulty, but his point that your own definition of a slave shows that people stupid enough to buy a DF membership are not slaves is sound.

No not faulty just plain wrong and not sound, a bit conceited. A slave, having zero to limited rights, decides to break free and runs away was never a slave by David's definition. In real world you can confine a person but in virtual world, you can't. So, as you can't confine, you mustn't use that as a leverage in the argument. Anyhow, wasn't that person's earlier state within confinement of rules and boundaries set forth by the master, a state of slavery? Of course, it was.

Hey, you pay me gold, make me richer but, you can't talk to me like my other acquaintances can via Guild Chat and I can kick you whenever I want is slavery by any definition.

raspberry jam

14-02-2008, 07:50

Hey, you pay me gold, make me richer but, you can't talk to me like my other acquaintances can via Guild Chat and I can kick you whenever I want is slavery by any definition.No it isn't. An agreement that

1) Has been volountarily entered into

2) Can be broken by any party at any time

3) Isn't a life need

Can never be slavery. You might as well say that we all are slaves when we play Guild Wars since NCSoft can terminate our accounts at any time for any reason, or that you are a slave when posting on this very site since IncGamers can IP ban you for any reason...

neoflame

14-02-2008, 16:33

A slave, having zero to limited rights, decides to break free and runs away was never a slave by David's definition.
Just plain wrong and conceited, given that the right to leave is explicitly available to gold trim buyers, while the right to leave is explicitly unavailable to slaves.

Shanaeri Rynale

14-02-2008, 17:35

Can't their guild do what they like? If they want to sell invites and demand that members bow to their leader every time they walk past or other somesuch sillyness then it's up to them.

If people don't like it, then they have an easy choice. Leave. If a guild leadership does'nt provide what their members want in a guild then it will disband and fail.

Personally I would never sell membership in a guild I ran. From a leadership perspective and for the health of a guild it's just dumb. That fact does'nt stop people buying and selling membership tho so it's entirely their choice if they pay or not.

Ate of DK

14-02-2008, 17:51

Selling membership is just bad taste imo.

But someone who bought a gold cape does know his rights. They are no slaves as they don't get shot or tortured if they don't do their "job".

Ace Bear

15-02-2008, 00:46

Can't their guild do what they like?
Yep. And no matter how much these people argue to "win the point" they aren't going to change their minds.
So basically the last 2-3 pages of this thread have been useless.

Shadowspawn X

15-02-2008, 16:12

Selling membership is just bad taste imo.

I agree. It undermines the spirit of what a guild and guildmates should be, however if DF can live with a two tiered structure of 1st and 2nd class members more power to them.

Psychotic

15-02-2008, 21:23

No not faulty just plain wrong and not sound, a bit conceited. A slave, having zero to limited rights, decides to break free and runs away was never a slave by David's definition. In real world you can confine a person but in virtual world, you can't. So, as you can't confine, you mustn't use that as a leverage in the argument. Anyhow, wasn't that person's earlier state within confinement of rules and boundaries set forth by the master, a state of slavery? Of course, it was.

Hey, you pay me gold, make me richer but, you can't talk to me like my other acquaintances can via Guild Chat and I can kick you whenever I want is slavery by any definition.

Lets make this into a real-world analogy:
They make 50 cars, limited edition. You want the car, but there is no way you could ever afford one. You meet a guy that has one. He offers you that you can pay him a 1 time charge, and you can ride in the car whenever you want you just can't bother him/talk to him or any of his friends he might have in the car. Your free to get out of the car, free to not ride in it again if you so choose.
In accepting this, you are a slave? That'd be utterly rediculous.

Tsai Cooper

16-02-2008, 02:00

In accepting this, you are a slave? That'd be utterly rediculous.

Only a slave to your own stupidity. i honestly cant believe people are defending cape-buyers.

Dogbert

18-02-2008, 14:53

Why isn't this thread locked?

oles

18-02-2008, 16:15

Why isn't this thread locked?

Because you aren't a mod.

Ranger Nietzsche

18-02-2008, 16:22

why would this thread be locked? no one has said anything remarkably insulting w/o contributing at the same time.

And its a discussion relevant enough to PvP.

so, OBJECTION OVERRULED

Yue

18-02-2008, 17:55

Only a slave to your own stupidity. i honestly cant believe people are defending cape-buyers.

We just opened up an HA division, so not everyone's a full cape leecher anymore.

oles

18-02-2008, 18:34

We just opened up an HA division, so not everyone's a full cape leecher anymore.

Yes, I watched some games from last night. This new team had mostly English names, though some appeared to be European in origin. The team was also dispatching sway teams with ease.
Can I get in on the action? I'm about 3k away from a tiger and there's no way I'm pugging that :blush:

Juiced

18-02-2008, 20:41

We just opened up an HA division, so not everyone's a full cape leecher anymore.
I encountered them, asked if they were cape buyers or real DF, they made fun of me :sad:

They were pretty good though, steam rolled us over :grin:

Dogbert

19-02-2008, 01:57

I thought this thread was about this
Looks like DF was sold...

DF was not sold.

rexkenley

21-02-2008, 22:35

:laugh: lolz, And people(some are members of df) disparage and accuse me of buying my gold trim, tsk tsk tsk. (I didn't btw, too poor)

Legit or not, people have to face the fact that this is one of best/fastest ways to raise money for the guild. Albeit, it does run the risk of cheapening the guild name. If df engages or continues with this practice, the df tag will no longer be synonymous to just l33t player, but l33t buyer as well.

But Hey, df does deserve to pimp out their guild hall after all that hard work, right?

:fortuneteller: I see gold in your future Shiro Tagachi.

shawn

21-02-2008, 22:58

Railin

22-02-2008, 06:15

sup DF, can i join? I'm poor, but I can pay the 100g invitation fee. :grin: and 50g extra service fee.

Ate of DK

22-02-2008, 07:18

Except atm we have the leader, 9 officers, and 7 active members.
Then 6 more people that haven't logged in on over 3 weeks.

Yeah. It definitely looks like we're selling. Making tons, definitely.
^-This is sarcasm.

You didn't have a [DF] tag the last time I saw you. Was it because of the hero-way? :huh:

I've faced [DF] 4 times now. Won twice, lost twice. They do well indeed. (Something which can be expected of the former nr1)

But there are some idiots in german district 1 who claim to be real [DF]. They had the gold cape and were talking nothing but trash about [DF]. For people who don't know the real [DF] players' names it can be confusing and can certainly cause a bad image for the guild. For sure when they call their fellow [DF] members "free fame opfer" (translated: free fame victums).

Guess that's how you get rewarded for selling gold capes to idiots.

shawn

22-02-2008, 08:30

You didn't have a [DF] tag the last time I saw you. Was it because of the hero-way? :huh:
I had to have, I haven't been in another guild since September. It was me, Tee from [RenO], and everyone else should have been from Bear Force One [ursn], aside from Livia.

Ate of DK

22-02-2008, 18:38

I had to have, I haven't been in another guild since September. It was me, Tee from [RenO], and everyone else should have been from Bear Force One [ursn], aside from Livia.

Sorry, I must be mistaken then. I remember that most had the [ursn] tag. I thought you had one of those. :smiley:

rexkenley

25-02-2008, 14:50

Yeah. It definitely looks like we're selling. Making tons, definitely.
^-This is sarcasm.

3) You gibs lots o gold.

Either Yue's definition of "lots" is very low or shawn is being shortchange of his share of the entrance fee. :shocked:

Then 6 more people that haven't logged in on over 3 weeks

And looks like DF is suffering from the initial stages of the malady known as the "GoldTrimCape Rot". (been there, done that, wont wish it on any guild)

I hope DF will be the first to cure the that malady.

shawn

25-02-2008, 16:15

Yes. Rot. Or, we have several second accounts and people that have quit the game?

And my point about selling was, if we were actively selling, we'd probably have way more members, and the officers would have more ecto than they'd know what to do with. We have ~20 people. Guess how many people [eF] has? Here's a hint: A lot more. That doesn't mean Yue can't make lots of money off some random pver that wants a shiny cape, and it also doesn't mean we actively sell to tons of people like eF does.

Yue

25-02-2008, 19:13

That doesn't mean Yue can't make lots of money off some random pver that wants a shiny cape

Think I've sold 1, champ sold 2, and someone else has sold one.

Age

25-02-2008, 22:18

Who is[eF]???????

rexkenley

25-02-2008, 22:21

Yes. Rot. Or, we have several second accounts and people that have quit the game?

Yep, that's part of the rot. A lot of my team mates left because they felt they "pwned" the game and are bored with the pvp scene. :cry:

And my point about selling was...and it also doesn't mean we actively sell to tons of people like eF does

Here's a hint question, has DF and EF existed roughly about the same amount of time?

One can also reason too that you have a smaller pool of l33t payers is because you charge more than EF. There are a lot millionaires in the world, only a few billionaires.

And shawn, since you are just a member (based on your forum tag). You can't really actively sell memberships even if you want to.

Think I've sold 1, champ sold 2, and someone else has sold one.

Well I guess Yue answered that question. 20% of DF current membership bought their way in. Yue, what is the average entrance fee?

But, like I said I dont see anything wrong selling memberships. There are costs to running a guild and those costs need to be paid. Since most of DF are pvp (assuming), I doubt that would leave you much time to farm gold and have a real life. But it does run the risk of be-smirching DF reputation.

Maybe Anet can add the word officer, so the man on the street can differentiate between DF - L33t PLayer and DF - L33t Payer. :soapbox:

shawn

25-02-2008, 22:49

Ugh, **** even trying to reply.
It's like talking to a ****ing child, and all I want to do is smack the damn thing.

David Holtzman

25-02-2008, 23:27

And looks like DF is suffering from the initial stages of the malady known as the "GoldTrimCape Rot". (been there, done that, wont wish it on any guild)

Which gold cape guild were you in, precisely?

rexkenley

26-02-2008, 16:49

Ugh, **** even trying to reply.
It's like talking to a ****ing child, and all I want to do is smack the damn thing.

Good thing children are more calm than some adults I see. :laugh:

Which gold cape guild were you in, precisely?

I thought we already established that is the billion dollar question. I dont see the billion dollars yet. :fortuneteller:

grimwold

26-02-2008, 16:52

What, you cant just answer the guy and tell him ? Whats the big secret ?

rexkenley

26-02-2008, 19:16

What, you cant just answer the guy and tell him ? Whats the big secret ?

Why can't you post your real life name instead of a forum handle?

Whats wrong with my decision to keep it a secret?:sealed:

David Holtzman

26-02-2008, 19:27

What, you cant just answer the guy and tell him ? Whats the big secret ?

The big secret is that he's a scrub pretender, and he thinks that if he hides which guild he was allegedly in he'll maintain some semblance of credibility. Of course he won't which is why I enjoy pointing it out so much.

************************************************** ********

Why can't you post your real life name instead of a forum handle?

Funny you should use that as your example. Of course, anyone with even the slightest sense can see why this argument is a colossal failure. If you were playing for a gold cape guild then you were on obsmode and probably were interviewed. In both cases being private about your ign is stupid at best, seeing how it is freely available to anyone who can press B or go to the GW site. The only reason to be secretive about it is if you didn't play for the guild, in which case we go back to the scrub pretender thing.

Yue

26-02-2008, 20:08

Well I guess Yue answered that question. 20% of DF current membership bought their way in. Yue, what is the average entrance fee?

There are about 10 officers (including leader), and 30 members. About half of those members are people we used to play with, friends, or people who quit the game. The other half are our HA people or people who bought their way in. Average fee is anywhere from 100k-1mil, depending on how annoying they are.

There are costs to running a guild and those costs need to be paid. Since most of DF are pvp (assuming), I doubt that would leave you much time to farm gold and have a real life.

Damrite. Though zaishen keys have remedied that situation quite a bit.

Why can't you post your real life name instead of a forum handle?

Most people who have a credible background aren't worried bout exposing their real name or anything like that. Alot of people use part of their real names in their handle.

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/articles/stateofthegame/20080103-frontline.php

There's mine, shawn's irl name is shawn, and I think David's handle is his full irl name. There's nothing to hide, and in fact we even have our players' irl names and pictures hosted on our guild website.

There is no point in covering your background if you expect to maintain any credibility, since it's typically the background itself that establishes one's reputation.

rexkenley

26-02-2008, 20:10

The big secret is that he's a scrub pretender, and he thinks that if he hides which guild he was allegedly in he'll maintain some semblance of credibility. Of course he won't which is why I enjoy pointing it out so much.

I am glad my discretion is making you soooo happy. :wink:

Funny you should use that as your example. Of course, anyone with even the slightest sense can see why this argument is a colossal failure.

If the person who I am answering to got the point, how can it be a failure?

If you were playing for a gold cape guild then you were on obsmode and probably were interviewed. In both cases being private about your ign is stupid at best, seeing how it is freely available to anyone who can press B or go to the GW site. The only reason to be secretive about it is if you didn't play for the guild, in which case we go back to the scrub pretender thing.

Well, if its so easy to get my ign, why do keep asking for my ign? Go find it.

David Holtzman

26-02-2008, 20:19

Well, if its so easy to get my ign, why do keep asking for my ign? Go find it.

You misunderstand. Getting a list of the igns of gold cape winners is easy. Figuring out which one you are would be more difficult. Of course, I know most every gold cape winner (outside of HaND, ME, and uni) and I know that you're no one I know, so the most likely reason for it being hard to find you on a list is that you aren't on it.

rexkenley

26-02-2008, 20:38

There are about 10 officers (including leader), and 30 members. About half of those members are people we used to play with, friends, or people who quit the game. The other half are our HA people or people who bought their way in. Average fee is anywhere from 100k-1mil, depending on how annoying they are.

Thanks for the stats! 1 Million?? :shocked: Gee no wonder not many people were able to buy their way in.

Most people who have a credible background aren't worried bout exposing their real name or anything like that. Alot of people use part of their real names in their handle.

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/articles/stateofthegame/20080103-frontline.php

True, but ideas and concepts should be either true or false on their own regardless of the source. Nice article btw

ooohhh mug shots :flowers:

You misunderstand. Getting a list of the igns of gold cape winners is easy. Figuring out which one you are would be more difficult.

aahh, ok, understood.

Opus

27-02-2008, 10:10

Well, if its so easy to get my ign, why do keep asking for my ign? Go find it.

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/traders/viewuser.php?id=62391

David Holtzman

27-02-2008, 11:32

I don't recall anyone by the name of "Minerva Freya" in any gold cape team roster. Nice catch opus, looks like we found us a wannabe.

rexkenley

27-02-2008, 21:08

He claims to be a *racial slur* iirc. HaND and ME are *racial slur* guilds, right? He also claimed the gold cape before the last tournie so uni's not the guild.

uuhh no, I said I have worn it, I never said when :wink:

I don't recall anyone by the name of "Minerva Freya" in any gold cape team roster. Nice catch opus, looks like we found us a wannabe.

Wow! I didn't know David can find my 2 accounts just based on 1 ign! David is using L33T HAX! :laugh:

I find it funny that you accuse me of being a wanabee when I did post

2.) I have 2 accounts (like all crazy fans of the game) ty ANET for extra slots
3.) I had the privilege of being an alpha tester, member of the good side :cloud9: (hehe sorry guys).
4.) I had the privilege of being a member of legendary/great guilds from all over the world.
5.) I had the privilege of knowing great players and getting to know new players who became great.

and

1.) I will never claim to be top player
2.) I will never try to impress anyone, nor will I covet any authority
3.) I post my opinions and I substantiate it as I saw fit.
4.) I always ask people how they come to their conclusions.

Although I find it curious, what do I "wanabee" now? Sorry David, I am not cut out to be the villain you are trying to paint me as, too busy farming titles :flowers:

Yue

27-02-2008, 21:15

I got banned last weekend for the name Come Suk My Dong.

shawn

27-02-2008, 21:31

Speaking of which, I heard that ULGG believes that DF was the guild behind hacking their forums last year. (Even though it wasn't any specific guild at all, of course.) Nevertheless, you probably got reported by every member of their alliance for that slightly suggestive name.

And since when is jap considered a racial slur? Does that mean 'euro' is a racial slur for a european as well?

rexkenley

27-02-2008, 21:35

I got banned last weekend for the name Come Suk My Dong.

:embarassed:

Why do a lot players find "risque" names so appealing?

rexkenley

27-02-2008, 21:38

Speaking of which, I heard that ULGG believes that DF was the guild behind hacking their forums last year. (Even though it wasn't any specific guild at all, of course.)

The perpetrators weren't too careful in hiding their IP addresses. The hackers made it easy for ulgg admins to trace, by using scripts commonly found on internet hack sites.

And since when is jap considered a racial slur? Does that mean 'euro' is a racial slur for a european as well?

The term Jap is used in English as an abbreviation of the word "Japanese." Today it is usually used as an ethnic slur, though English speaking countries differ in the degree they consider the term offensive. Most people of Japanese descent in these countries consider it offensive.

http://www.answers.com/topic/jap-person-of-japanese-birth-or-descent

Maybe this would help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWVrec9pT_g