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Karn the Betrayer
09-02-2008, 00:32
I'm writing a GW story featuring the demons of GW i want to make it accurate as possible so I'm guessing the Torment Creatures ar allianged with the Margonites, Shadow with Menzies... what about the others?

am i right on this?

Gmr Leon
09-02-2008, 01:13
Is that supposed to be hierarchy? If that is the case, and you don't mind, I'll change the title to indicate this.

Karn the Betrayer
09-02-2008, 01:26
yes, I can't find any info who actually rules the torment creatures, and since you always see them with margonites i guess Abaddon was thier master

Dhuum only had the riders and dryders and menzies the shadow army...

correct me if i am wrong

Gmr Leon
09-02-2008, 01:41
Dhuum had:
Grasp of Insanity
Scythe of Chaos
Dryders
Banished Dream Riders
Chaos Wurms

Menzies:
Shadow Army

Abaddon:
Margonites

The Demons were basically spread out and allied with whichever of the three they wanted to.

Harjubal od Uo
09-02-2008, 04:53
Are we even clear that demons are sentient? I never got the impression that they were much more intelligent than dogs and were treated thus by whomever they were with.

The caveat to that is that I've never gotten anywhere in Anguish, so I don't know what sort of demonlore is in the Foundry of Failed Creations.

Shinigami God
09-02-2008, 06:36
I always got the impression that the demons were technically Abaddon's. Yes, there are instances in which they go with the others, but more often than not they're either on their own or accompany a group of Margonites. On top of the fact that Abaddon's the big cheese of the whole Torment Realm and the Demons, to me, seem to be intended to be the biggest threat to the players.

Karn the Betrayer
09-02-2008, 09:09
? the torment demons.. I guess they belong to Abaddon since you always see them with the Margonites

off topic: Ravenheart Gloom kinda reminds me of the Silent Hill games, RG scares the hell (bad pun) out of me when i venture there

Kalidri
09-02-2008, 09:39
Check out the manual for Nightfall regarding demons. It says in the article that demons are intelligent...and describes what they are and why they hate people. Note that according to the official wiki lots of things are considered demons - and there are armies for each noted. Hope you find it useful!

http://www.wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Demon

Here's the PDF source for Nightfall - demons are discussed on page 47:

ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf

Black
09-02-2008, 10:49
I do believe that some demons have unknown masters, such as in the case of Oni's and the Kanaxai of the elite mission the Deep.

Constructs maybe considered demonic unless they are just what they are described to be - Constructs. They are under the leadership of Shiro who in turn was under the indirect guidance of Abbadon himself. Also as a side note; the infected are not demons since they are humans and animals who were deformed by the demonic miasma aka The plague.

Also in the case of the Oni, they do appear in the co-op right before battling Shiro himself. This leads me to believe if they do have a master, it maybe under Shiro's influence.

La Jaffa
09-02-2008, 14:52
I do believe that some demons have unknown masters, such as in the case of Oni's and the Kanaxai of the elite mission the Deep.

Constructs maybe considered demonic unless they are just what they are described to be - Constructs. They are under the leadership of Shiro who in turn was under the indirect guidance of Abbadon himself. Also as a side note; the infected are not demons since they are humans and animals who were deformed by the demonic miasma aka The plague.

Also in the case of the Oni, they do appear in the co-op right before battling Shiro himself. This leads me to believe if they do have a master, it maybe under Shiro's influence.


The oni are Kanaxai's Minions, and The reavers are brainwashed by Kana.
And shiro was A follower of abbadon Not. so Shiro's Boss is abbadon

Gmr Leon
09-02-2008, 16:07
Alright..Let's straighten this up. Shiro had to basically create the Constructs a.k.a Shiro'ken, they aren't completely mindless, but they're like the Destroyers when the Great Destroyer is killed. They just roam around and well, get killed by those hunting them down.

Oni are minions of Kanaxai. Kanaxai is not under anyone's influence other than his own insanity or nightmares if I'm not mistaken. Actually, I think the nightmares are what create the Oni and made the Outcasts go insane.

Arkhan The Black
09-02-2008, 17:36
Well not much is known about Kanaxai except he was trapped in the Jade Sea because of the Jade Wind and the Luxon freed him when mining the sea for jade.
(Kanaxai is also clearly inspired by the Cthulhu mythos)

As for the Oni some Luxon belive they are outcasts that has been twisted in to demons by Kanaxai. Not impossible since humans can become Margonite demons.

Harjubal od Uo
09-02-2008, 18:31
Check out the manual for Nightfall regarding demons. It says in the article that demons are intelligent...

Thanks Kalidri, I'd forgotten that part of the Nightfall Manuscripts.

As for the oni, I remember a debate on here a while back where there are two very clearly conflicting accounts of the origins of the oni. One account says that they're material figments of Kanaxai's nightmares, the other says that they might be the ultimate fate of Outcasts.

Referenced thread. (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445360&highlight=oni)

Kalidri
10-02-2008, 02:08
What I find intriguing from the wiki site is that Grentches are considered demons. So Grenth has no issue having demons in his employ? That kind of casts a crueller light on Grenth. Or perhaps Grenth merely uses the potentia of the Mists to make them in his service...as I imagine Abaddon did to make humans into Margonites (Margonites do count as demons despite their origins as people).

Gmr Leon
10-02-2008, 03:39
Thanks Kalidri, I'd forgotten that part of the Nightfall Manuscripts.

As for the oni, I remember a debate on here a while back where there are two very clearly conflicting accounts of the origins of the oni. One account says that they're material figments of Kanaxai's nightmares, the other says that they might be the ultimate fate of Outcasts.

Referenced thread. (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445360&highlight=oni)

Thanks for pointing that out Harjubal, I knew I had read the accounts somewhere, but I couldn't find them on the the official wiki or guildwiki. At any rate, I added that thread and a few others to the Threads of On-Going Research in Canthan Lore.

It would seem I skimmed too quickly over that section..

Nanashi
10-02-2008, 10:00
Are we even clear that demons are sentient? I never got the impression that they were much more intelligent than dogs and were treated thus by whomever they were with.

Hmmm on a few occasions both The Hunger and a few Harbringers spoke. :)


Alright..Let's straighten this up. Shiro had to basically create the Constructs a.k.a Shiro'ken, they aren't completely mindless, but they're like the Destroyers when the Great Destroyer is killed. They just roam around and well, get killed by those hunting them down.

Yup except that Shiro'Kens required souls to be fused against their will. These souls could be innocent or evil, didn't matter, against their will they would be transformed into his soldiers. Once he was gone, as you said they just wander around killing.

Karn the Betrayer
10-02-2008, 10:59
this proves the toement creatures being ruled by abaddon, the greater darkness was just a underling under him

I know the Margs don't appear in Tyria no more but what they were doing outside LA is beyond me...

OT: I'd love to see a special mission only for NF characters where you have to stop a margonite invasion in EoTN or something like Prophecies/Faction main enemy armies invading the other chapters XD