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View Full Version : [idea] Fade out skills with no effect in GW2



JayyDestroyer
13-04-2008, 11:16
It'd be cool if, in GW2, skills that would have no effect in the current situation were greyed/faded out. Using examples from GW1 skills:

-Blood of the Master with no minions
-Healing spell/skill when selecting someone with full health
-Rotting Flesh when selecting a non-fleshy foe
-Corpse skills when there are no un-exploited corpses in the area

This means the GW2 devs can add some mystery to the skills, skills which suddenly light up in the middle of a dungeon might make you suddenly say "hey, wait a minute..." and some hidden treasure is found by using that skill. The description of skills could be cut back, meaning people have to experiment with them. It also means that you don't waste energy casting spells with no effect by accident. It makes the game slightly more accessible for newcomers, and rewards people who explore the game.

Even better would be a 2-tier system, where skills which have reduced affects in the current situation (e.g attack skills when you're blind or weakened, or a healing skill on someone with 99% health) could be faded out, and skills with absolutely no effects are greyed out. The only time this could be bad is if you wanted to pre-heal someone (e.g start casting the healing spell just before the spike). If this is the case, healing spells are simply faded out, not greyed out.

Skyy High
13-04-2008, 20:15
This means the GW2 devs can add some mystery to the skills, skills which suddenly light up in the middle of a dungeon might make you suddenly say "hey, wait a minute..." and some hidden treasure is found by using that skill. The description of skills could be cut back, meaning people have to experiment with them.
That's not "mystery" or "experimentation", that's wandering around until a skill lights up, at which point the devs are telling you "use this skill now." That's not fun, exciting, or good game design in any way.

ironox
13-04-2008, 23:02
No way. Like running a dice and paper game - the DM starts rolling dice and all the players know something is up (which is why experienced DMs roll dice at random times and grin). And there SHOULD be a learning curve for skills. If it is all handed to the players on a platter, boredom will happen pretty quickly.

BlueHeaven
14-04-2008, 05:12
Here's an idea thats sorta on the same wave length:
Having skills that when used optimally provides a bonus effect or bonus points. This is already implemented in a lot of skills thru GW1 such as Word of Healing and Zelous Benediction (optimal to use on players with less than half their health), but it could be made into a more general play scheme, that would have an affect how you used all your skills.

So say you use Reversal of Fortune on an ally, and the ally took only 15 damage on the next hit, and RoF can negates up to 65, that wouldn't grant on bonus effects or points, but if the ally were hit with 50 damage, that would grant a certain amount of bonus points or a bonus affect.
(Obviously I see the potential of exploiting this by setting a low protection prayers, but just making an example from this skill).

So maybe, there is another bar added that fills up with these points, and grants an 'energy' pool from which you could use certain skills. The pool could also have a natural degeneration, so it would only be used per battle.

Just throwing out idea's, and this one came to mind when reading the OP's idea.

Other skill combos that would gain point using GW1 examples:
Server Artery->Gash
Chilling winds->water hex
Knockdown skill->Crushing Blow

Basically you would be rewarded for using the skills correctly, or at optimal times.

Rockweaver
14-04-2008, 14:36
i would expect more chain skills like the ones for assassins. increase damage bonus with proper applacation of the skills. the fun would be in seeing how long you could chain skills.

raspberry jam
14-04-2008, 15:27
No way. Like running a dice and paper game - the DM starts rolling dice and all the players know something is up (which is why experienced DMs roll dice at random times and grin). And there SHOULD be a learning curve for skills. If it is all handed to the players on a platter, boredom will happen pretty quickly.DM: "You see a giant coming at you, waving a club in the air. He doesn't smell, doesn't make any noise, and appears to be 2-dimensional."

Player: "Umm I'll choose to disbelieve the giant"

DM: "Aww, damn, it was just an illusion so he disappears. How did you know?"

It would be the same thing indeed, no skill required just use the buttons that are not faded out, quite boring.


Basically you would be rewarded for using the skills correctly, or at optimal times.That idea I like, though. Also chaining, no assassin-style chaining though, that's boring, but the type of skill chains you gave example of are great: skills that give a decent base effect but become stronger if you use them under the right conditions (conditions perhaps created by a skill you used earlier).

Skyy High
14-04-2008, 18:01
Don't we already have such conditional skills now? The only difference is, they're tied to general effects ("Foe is under a hex/enchant/condition/certain % hp/moving/stationary/casting") rather than particular "proper" skill combinations. The first allows you to make huge numbers of builds utilizing these types of skills, the second is just another example of the devs giving us builds.

djacob
14-04-2008, 19:15
Ok, as far as the idea of having an explorable skill that gets you items and only is lit up when there are items nearby, that sounds a bit too easy.

On the other hand, why should anyone be able to use a skill that you need a minion for without an actual minion, etc? It's been a while though, so refresh my memory, can anyone do this now? I should think your idea is more along the lines of "invalid target" in which the actual skill is not greyed out, but you can't use it anyway atm. So you basically just want the skills that wouldn't function anyway to be greyed out? I don't see anything wrong with that if it is the case.

raspberry jam
14-04-2008, 19:45
Don't we already have such conditional skills now? The only difference is, they're tied to general effects ("Foe is under a hex/enchant/condition/certain % hp/moving/stationary/casting") rather than particular "proper" skill combinations. The first allows you to make huge numbers of builds utilizing these types of skills, the second is just another example of the devs giving us builds.That's what I was saying lol

Sever Artery -> Gash for example, but the important thing for Gash isn't Sever Artery but the bleeding itself, no matter where it came from. It'd be great if they kept such things in GW2, maybe even going deeper into the same thing, as long as they don't make it work like assassin skill chains of today does.


On the other hand, why should anyone be able to use a skill that you need a minion for without an actual minion, etc? It's been a while though, so refresh my memory, can anyone do this now?You can use Blood of the Master without any minions, but I think that for example Jagged Bones would fail (not sure about that though).

JayyDestroyer
14-04-2008, 22:58
I still don't see why this would make the game worse. There's nothing in my suggestion that would make the game easier. If it was implemented properly, it would be a fantastic addition. Maybe not the "light up in dungeon" bit.

Martian Tristar
15-04-2008, 07:54
one big problem, its called guildwiki, takes the fun out of anything that is supposed to be mysterious

raspberry jam
15-04-2008, 14:27
There's nothing in my suggestion that would make the game easier.
skills which have reduced affects in the current situation (e.g attack skills when you're blind or weakened, or a healing skill on someone with 99% health) could be faded out, and skills with absolutely no effects are greyed out.Your idea literally says "fade out skills that are pointless to use at this moment". Knowing that they are pointless without visual cues is part of player skill so yes, it would make it easier.

Sefk
15-04-2008, 15:21
Your idea literally says "fade out skills that are pointless to use at this moment". Knowing that they are pointless without visual cues is part of player skill so yes, it would make it easier.

+1

After Ursan blessing, now the game will play by itself!

Jacobbs
20-04-2008, 23:56
No way. Like running a dice and paper game - the DM starts rolling dice and all the players know something is up (which is why experienced DMs roll dice at random times and grin). And there SHOULD be a learning curve for skills. If it is all handed to the players on a platter, boredom will happen pretty quickly.

This is a good point. It's already happened somewhat in GW, the whole "CHANGE MY TARGET FOR ME PLZ SO I CAN SPACEBAR SPAM" is one step in that direction.

lorddarkflare
25-04-2008, 19:56
DM: "You see a giant coming at you, waving a club in the air. He doesn't smell, doesn't make any noise, and appears to be 2-dimensional."

Player: "Umm I'll choose to disbelieve the giant"

DM: "Aww, damn, it was just an illusion so he disappears. How did you know?"

It would be the same thing indeed, no skill required just use the buttons that are not faded out, quite boring.

That idea I like, though. Also chaining, no assassin-style chaining though, that's boring, but the type of skill chains you gave example of are great: skills that give a decent base effect but become stronger if you use them under the right conditions (conditions perhaps created by a skill you used earlier).

I like it too. One example that comes to mind(Using gw skills): You cast savanna heat, after doing your damage, the immediate area becomes saturated with fire energy.

Within this field, fire skills do more damage and cost less(the opposite for water), all physical attacks are converted to fire damage, certain skills(Capitalizing on the skill chaining thing) which belong in the same group as this skill(My idea is that skills are part of a group of unrelated skills that have a direct effects on each other) act differently within this field(like the steam of today works)

The idea is similar to the fields of fonons in Tales of the Abyss

BlueHeaven
25-04-2008, 20:28
one big problem, its called guildwiki, takes the fun out of anything that is supposed to be mysterious

That and you are playing online with hundreds of thousands of other people who you can just ask or follow.

Secrets don't work to well in MMO's, really just single players.

DivinityOnHigh
26-04-2008, 18:31
Passive skills??

Sounds a little like WoW if you ask me.....

But no one asked me so I guess Ill just whistle away.....:wink:

~DoH

raspberry jam
26-04-2008, 19:14
Passive skills??

Sounds a little like WoW if you ask me.....

But no one asked me so I guess Ill just whistle away.....:wink:

~DoHHmmm skills in WoW are only faded out if you can't use them (like, you have too little rage/mana/etc)