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Apple Tox
08-06-2008, 18:46
Ahhh yes..the famed GW 2 sidekick....the feature that supposedly lets you hook up with lower level players, and evens the balance between levels in a mysterious way.

I smell lvl 1's with incredible armor and money in GW 2, that have very high-level sidekicks.

Anyone feelin my vibe?


~Apple

P.S.-this is a pointless topic I know...but its sorta been biting at me for a while now. :grin:

Ace Bear
08-06-2008, 20:02
A sidekick is used to describe a character of a lower level who joins with or is mentored by a character of higher level and gains temporary additional power which brings them closer to or equal to the level of the higher character. This system allows players with low level characters to play with friends and access content possibly restricted because they don't have sufficient level.

Guild Wars 2 is said to be implementing a sidekick system possibly similar to that used by City of Heroes. The sidekick system has been mentioned in particular association with characters entering World PvP.
All I can give you. But I do think the system will turn out to be great.

sorudo
08-06-2008, 22:18
play COX and you know how it works, though, i don't like the entire COX sidekick system.

Akirai Annuvil
09-06-2008, 13:03
Yay for sidekick systems.

Nemeon Lion
09-06-2008, 14:31
A sidekick system would help with the problem of level discrimination. Since GW2 will have an higher level cap, it won't matter if a level 30 or level 20 joins, they all will get "upped" to the adequate level thanks to the sidekick system.

Apple Tox
09-06-2008, 17:37
Thats exactly my point.

Say a lvl 10 pairs up with a lvl 50.....sidekick enabled, the lvl 10 would gain the power of the lvl 50 giving him incredible weapons, armor, etc.

When the level 10 is done, he dusts himself off.....and goes back to solo.....only this time wielding incredible lvl 50 armor weapons, and other paraphernalia that he got from PvEing with the lvl 50, but in a lvl 10 enviorment.


And your probably thinking....well...the weapons, and armor and stuff probably have some sort of level req on them for them to work properly. Well...what about the money???????? If you have a level 10 pairing with a lvl 50, and the loot is set for the whole group.....that level 10 is going to be raking in alot of money...and experience I might add....

How are you gonna solve that? Theres no point in really playing if you can get sidekicked with someone, and rake in a whole lot of cash and get powerleveled to level 100 in a week.

This is a bad idea IMO

~Apple

sorudo
09-06-2008, 17:37
but i do hope that the XP doesn't get lowered like the "journey of the north" boost, i always hated that...

Akirai Annuvil
09-06-2008, 18:43
...
The above does not equal: "cool", unless used at the appropriate time.

And your probably thinking....well...the weapons, and armor and stuff probably have some sort of level req on them for them to work properly. Well...what about the money???????? If you have a level 10 pairing with a lvl 50, and the loot is set for the whole group.....that level 10 is going to be raking in alot of money...and experience I might add....
The vast majority of the quoted examples is not the right time.

As to the post's subject itself, I don't see the problem.
Loot, gold and experience are rewards for completing a certain task.
A player is allowed to perform said task through an in-game sidekick system.
That player completes said task correctly.
-
That player gains rewards appropriate for the task.

I don't find the player receiving the rewards for what they accomplished to be in anyway inappropriate.

Apple Tox
09-06-2008, 19:27
I think your failing to see the point.

With this system...Low End players will take advantageof the system...and will be runnning around with High-Level gear, or selling the gear if they cant use it for alot of money. This is like an inadvertant exploit wating to happen. Bad Idea. No where did anyone ever mention tasks. The post is about farming with the sidekick system.

~Apple

Nemeon Lion
09-06-2008, 19:52
I think your failing to see the point.

With this system...Low End players will take advantageof the system...and will be runnning around with High-Level gear, or selling the gear if they cant use it for alot of money. This is like an inadvertant exploit wating to happen. Bad Idea. No where did anyone ever mention tasks. The post is about farming with the sidekick system.

~Apple


You're forgetting that in order for the players to get that high-end gear, they must play in an high-end area, which surely low level players won't have access to.

Now, it has already been told that there won't be any barriers preventing exploration. So what about running? We also know that most of the explorables will also be persistent, so asking for runners probably won't work out.

However, at this point, where we lack in information, we should concentrate on the core idea.

"Is having a sidekicking system good or bad?" is the matter at question. We don't have the necessary information to start working on variables.

krattos
09-06-2008, 21:00
I've been playing Age of Conan, that uses multiple instances for the areas, I'm guessing the same way Guild Wars 2 will, as when one instance is at a certain amount of players, a new instance is created, anyway back on topic about the sidekick system.

Age of Conan has an 'Apprentice' system which is basically the sidekick system and it works pretty well from what I've gathered, when you're an apprentice you're taken up to the other player's level, but when you leave you're back to the level you were before being an apprentice, so players can't really abuse it too much by using high end gear at low levels as when the master logs off or something, the apprentice is back down to their low level. :smiley:

Akirai Annuvil
09-06-2008, 21:48
~
Alright I'm going to explain this really, really slowly as you seem to be having problems grasping what I'm saying.

A character gains gold, experience or items by completing tasks.
In game you have to complete a certain task to gain a reward.
For example, you have to kill a monster, win a GvG or complete a quest. Only once you or your party complete such a task do you gain a reward.
-
A player is allowed to perform a certain task thanks to the sidekick system.
Normally a player wouldn't be able to access certain content. For example a level 80 dungeon. However a friend of said player is level 90 and looking for a final member, so his level is temporarily upped to level 80. They are now going to try and complete their task, the level 80 dungeon.
-
That player completes said task correctly.
To further the above example, the player completes the level 80 dungeon. Maybe somebody died, maybe someone even left, but somehow they made it through.
-
That player gains a suitable reward for said task.
The player completed the task, he completed the level 80 dungeon, which means he's earned the reward for that task. Yes, that means gold, experience and probably items.

This process remains true whether the player is officially level 10 or level 160. The only process which circumvents this is a player getting powerleveled, but the sidekick system destroys the very need to be powerleveled. After all everyone is at the appriopriate level for whatever (team based) task they wish to complete, be that grinding, duo farming, running, questing or any other content.

Nemeon Lion
09-06-2008, 21:52
This process remains true whether the player is officially level 10 or level 160. The only process which circumvents this is a player getting powerleveled, but the sidekick system destroys the very need to be powerleveled. After all everyone is at the appriopriate level for whatever (team based) task they wish to complete, be that grinding, duo farming, running, questing or any other content.


Oh, that totally reminded me of another good thing about the sidekick system.

Even if the level cap will be high, you'll still be able to use multiple characters, since the sidekick system will take care of the level/power problem you might have.

In my opinion, and if implemented right, grouping will be as easier as ever. No more days to wait for being a certain level to enjoy the content. Your party needs a Ranger? No problem! Log in to your level 10 Ranger, get sidekicked to 40 and you're ready to rumble!.

sorudo
09-06-2008, 22:59
to lower the misuse of the sidekick system, they could scale the loot depending on your level per area.
so low lvl places still give low lvl loot, but in high lvl places the sidekick system makes sure that the high lvl place doesn't drop items above your grasp, sorta the loot scaling on a lvl based level.

Advocate Rhino
10-06-2008, 02:39
Your main concern seems to be that low level players will have "high level gear", but gear doesn't matter very much in GW and I hope that it will continue to not matter much in GW2. Additionally, in normal GW you can get high level gear but when it comes to weapons you can't use the item if your character isn't skilled enough. If they keep that same system then you might get a max level weapon while being a sidekick, but upon returning to normal you might not be able to use it anymore.

Ace Bear
10-06-2008, 04:10
Not to mention your concern has been solved by plenty of other MMOs. Loot would scale to the level you are. So higher level players would get the better loot/more money. And once the sidekicking is done(as in once the big man has left for the night or whatever) the level 10 is back to a level 10 status.

And yes gear means nothing in GW, never really has.

Wethospu
10-06-2008, 09:31
I don't see point of loot scaling.

I doubt high-level areas will have crazy reward. Also if you get boosted then you are as powerful as the one who boosted you. So I think it's fair if people get same loot. Except if they create crappy system which means you can be as good as level 90 in level 80 dungeon (and other players get just boosted to 80).

Also that loot scaling would create happy happy grinding. If you want proper amount of wealth then go increase your number!

sorudo
10-06-2008, 17:39
And yes gear means nothing in GW, never really has.
uhmm, it's GW2, and they already explained that it will be expanded, so more important.

Shallowrain
10-06-2008, 20:02
I think what he means is that there is no super-ultimate-armor-of-infinity-plus-one kinds of things that come out the Deep, Urgoz's Warren, The Domain of Anguish, etc. Therefore if a low-level person gets high level equipment, it'd be equivalent to somebody running down to Drok's for the armor, and being given a max weapon.

Apple Tox
10-06-2008, 22:37
I think what he means is that there is no super-ultimate-armor-of-infinity-plus-one kinds of things that come out the Deep, Urgoz's Warren, The Domain of Anguish, etc. Therefore if a low-level person gets high level equipment, it'd be equivalent to somebody running down to Drok's for the armor, and being given a max weapon.

Exactly.

Thanks for the Clarifacation.:grin:

~Apple

drox
10-06-2008, 23:29
looking at the topic name i thought you ment some sort of bruce lee move :D

Apple Tox
10-06-2008, 23:41
Lol?:huh:

~Apple

Ace Bear
11-06-2008, 04:15
uhmm, it's GW2, and they already explained that it will be expanded, so more important.
uhmm, its GW2, and they already explained it will stay in the same spirit as GW, so not important.

And yes, Wethospu, loot scaling is better, some don't remember way back when, when GW first came out but I remember the Ascalon arenas. Those places sucked to go in and to have a little fun because more and more would get runs to Droks and get elites from down in that area that would put them on an advantage. In GW2 it obviously doesn't have to be an Arena but there will be an equivalent area where the fun can be ruined by people who get higher level weapons or more money because of their ability to go into higher places then bring it back to exploit it. Loot scaling helps on this.

Trinity Fire Angel
11-06-2008, 05:32
a few things;

1. powerleveling would not work. because the L1 would be at L80 in the dungeon they would only get the amount of experience that a L80 would get and not a L1

2. it would need to drop players down to their original level if the level 80 left. ie. "paying 50g to open gate and leave" or "L1 looking for L50 sidekick to enter mission and leave"

3. i could also see that some people would get fun out of running someone thru a mission on sidekick level and then leaving the sidekick at L1 in a L30 dungeon.

4. should only apply to some areas such as World PVP. etc et c.

Wethospu
11-06-2008, 10:05
- - by people who get higher level weapons or more money because of their ability to go into higher places then bring it back to exploit it. Loot scaling helps on this.

If item system is similar to current not much money is needed.

I would hate to grind levels in order to get proper loot. And now the problem isn't with loot, problem is in Xunlai.




- - 1. powerleveling would not work. because the L1 would be at L80 in the dungeon they would only get the amount of experience that a L80 would get and not a L1 - -

It would suck if power level wasn't possible. I like that you can buy services from players.
However with this system power leveling would be too powerful and system would be really broken.
ANET can either make it suck or not. Sucky way would be that levels make you more powerful (like in most games). So you need grind a lot. And really lot if power leveling wasn't there.
If levels weren't that important monsters could be just like now, between 0 - 31 (I guess :P). So power leveling would be as effective as now and no grinding required.

Sidekick system sounds that levels will be important though. :(


- - 2. it would need to drop players down to their original level if the level 80 left. ie. "paying 50g to open gate and leave" or "L1 looking for L50 sidekick to enter mission and leave" - -

Another example which shows how broken system could be.

If your level was put down to original level when booster left then disconnects could be fatal.

I think it would be better that in level 80 dungeon you were set to level 80 no matter are you alone or not. But then levels feel pretty pointless.



I hope ANET will have lots of fun with thinking of this system. I think current one is perfectly fine.

Apple Tox
11-06-2008, 17:11
a few things;

1. powerleveling would not work. because the L1 would be at L80 in the dungeon they would only get the amount of experience that a L80 would get and not a L1

2. it would need to drop players down to their original level if the level 80 left. ie. "paying 50g to open gate and leave" or "L1 looking for L50 sidekick to enter mission and leave"

3. i could also see that some people would get fun out of running someone thru a mission on sidekick level and then leaving the sidekick at L1 in a L30 dungeon.

4. should only apply to some areas such as World PVP. etc et c.



Wow.....Ok......this is alot for me to handle...but lemme break it down for ya. Also..think about what your saying, before you post. =D


1. Power leveling. Coming from WoW...I know how it works. If a lvl 1 gets the same exp as a lvl 80, in a lvl 80 dungeon, thats ALOT. Say...a normal lvl 80 gets 800exp per kill. That might not be alot to the lvl 80, who needs 2 mil exp to level, but for the level one who rezones out, and only needs 56exp to level....well THATS ALOT.

2. Horrible Idea. If this was the case...instanced Dungeons would not be possible for fear of leechers and leavers. This is an exploit in the making.

3.- Ummm.....If Dungeons are instanced....which would be the only way they could work......no one would be bumped back to level one if they are a sidekick because the high-level left. They would have to rezone, so no problem there.......


4. This might be a good idea, just to take out dungeons all together from the sidekick system. Kudos. :grin:


~Apple

KyppDuron
11-06-2008, 19:31
1. Power leveling. Coming from WoW...I know how it works. If a lvl 1 gets the same exp as a lvl 80, in a lvl 80 dungeon, thats ALOT. Say...a normal lvl 80 gets 800exp per kill. That might not be alot to the lvl 80, who needs 2 mil exp to level, but for the level one who rezones out, and only needs 56exp to level....well THATS ALOT.

EXP doesn't work like that in GW and i don't see why it wouldn't be the same in gw2. EXP *should* continue to be based on your level vs the level of the enemy, not just the level of the enemy.

2. Horrible Idea. If this was the case...instanced Dungeons would not be possible for fear of leechers and leavers. This is an exploit in the making.

I like the idea, we already have a dishonour/reporting system for this in PvP, why not PvE?

4. This might be a good idea, just to take out dungeons all together from the sidekick system. Kudos. :grin:

I think that would defeat the point, allowing people to play together without grinding first.

Kinlin
11-06-2008, 19:59
None of you really know what it would be like, speculate as much as you like, your all just going to have to wait. It may be good or bad, who knows.

Undead Priest
11-06-2008, 21:31
None of you really know what it would be like, speculate as much as you like, your all just going to have to wait. It may be good or bad, who knows.

True, although the "Journey to the North" buff, is likely the best guide for speculating on how Anet will handle the Sidekick system in GW2 :smiley:

Apple Tox
11-06-2008, 21:48
Oh yes.....that
I hate that buff lol

~Apple

Akirai Annuvil
12-06-2008, 01:16
1. powerleveling would not work. because the L1 would be at L80 in the dungeon they would only get the amount of experience that a L80 would get and not a L1
Correct. Powerleveling isn't a problem either way because of the sidekick system which makes level restrictions on content irrelevant (the main reason to powerlevel).

2. it would need to drop players down to their original level if the level 80 left. ie. "paying 50g to open gate and leave" or "L1 looking for L50 sidekick to enter mission and leave"
I don't see this being possible in instanced areas (though it might be).
This is probably how it's going to work in non-instanced areas.
If not, I still have some doubts this would happen; it's currently not done in missions with heroes, so it can be presumed it won't be done in mission with sidekicks.

3. i could also see that some people would get fun out of running someone thru a mission on sidekick level and then leaving the sidekick at L1 in a L30 dungeon.
I don't think the sidekick system will disappear together with the
'real' hero within instances so this shouldn't be a problem.

4. should only apply to some areas such as World PVP. etc et c.
Player power should be equal in world PvP and I don't see why?

Elex Aio
12-06-2008, 01:37
I'm confused, I always thought that Sidekicks would be NPC's that helped you just like Heroes.

Undead Priest
12-06-2008, 04:10
I'm confused, I always thought that Sidekicks would be NPC's that helped you just like Heroes.

I believe you are mistaking the "Sidekick" system for the "Companion" system.

The Sidekick system is supposed to allow you to join and play with anyone regardless of how different you are in level, and supposedly will raise the lower leveled player up to the level of the higher leveled player.

The Companion system on the other hand is supposed to take the role of (Heroes/Henchmen/Pets) and is supposed to provide you an AI companion at the expense of some of your characters own power.

Egal
12-06-2008, 06:19
Eliminate the tired old business of character levelling and you'll have no need to bother with the complexities of a Sidekick system.

Think about it, Anet.

Wethospu
12-06-2008, 08:44
Yea, just like now. It works and what's point of leveling when it doesn't have much meaning.