Racial Differences...

[lorddarkflare]

Okay, i know many of you do not want any differences, while some others do not want extra races at all.

Now ignoring how you feel, and pretending that there WILL be differences between the races, how would you want it to be handled?

I know that the biggest problem is balance between the races and pigeonholing, but what do you think?

Personally, i think each race gets their own sets of professions with as little cross over in purpose as possible with the other races. Want an interrupter? you need an Asura. Ritualist? Norn. Ranger? Human.

In this way, there is no mistake as to what the races can do from the get go. So in essence, it is exactly how GW is today, each profession gets their own unique faces, body types and armor---just substitute profession fro race.

[Balan Makki]

I'd like to see racial attributes. Nothing wrong with the idea, especially if other races can gain such attributes as they increase in cross-racial rank.

See EoTN racial buffs. I like how this works, and can see it taken even further. Start out with race specific buffs, then let players acquire rank within other races, for a choice of which buff they'll choose to display/use.

Could even use an simple attribute system, where you can spend points in multiple racial attributes, as new racial attributes are gained.

Has to be a well balance setup, but could work wonders.

In regards to Racial professions, I'm on the other side of the fence. I'd like to see all races/characters able to train multiple primary professions. Being able to switch between Primary Profession as needed. Would be cool if when you changed profession (pray to the specific God or whatever) your character would take on a slight visual change, such as when you become a warrior, your base character looks like they've been pumping iron with Arnie. Or as a ranger, your character would morph slightly and you'd look like you are in training for a 30k marathon.

Considering that Armors will be much more generic in GW2 it is very possible.

[Alaris]

Personally, i think each race gets their own sets of professions with as little cross over in purpose as possible with the other races. Want an interrupter? you need an Asura. Ritualist? Norn. Ranger? Human.

Sry, no.

The main attraction to races for me is greater choice in customizing my character's look. Besides, how would we go about deciding which race gets what prof? There are Asuran Warriors in GW1 afterall!

Best way IMO is to have racial skills, and those skills have balanced equivalents in the other races. By balanced equivalents I mean different skills that have different effects but otherwise balance out with any profession.

So the Norn bear is obviously nice for melee'rs, but Asurans might have a pain inverting shield or life-stealing weapon. Sure Asurans might have some nice caster spells, but Norn owl form might boost your energy. Asurans might also get some summons like Mursaat and Golems, but Sylvari might be able to call on nature to get help from trees and animals.

The goal is to give each race its own flavor, but at the same time make it possible and fun to play any race-prof combination.

Oh, and avoid passive bonuses at all costs.

[sorudo]

i do think that the powers of each race should not come down to close minded game play, so an asura should be just as good as a warrior as a norn, and visa versa.

[raspberry jam]

I'd like the various races to have party-wide passive effects. This would strongly encourage people to create diverse parties and not just keep it to "norn tank, asura nukers, sylvari healers gogogo"

Example: having an asura in the team means that everyone's skills will recharge slightly faster than normal. A sylvari will slightly reduce the energy cost of all skills. Bringing along a norn friend will increase the damage done by all attacks by a small amount. And so on.

The effects should be quite weak, but strongest for the first member of each race and then weaker for each successive member, to prevent abuse.

EDIT: Apart from that I agree with Sorudo.

[Akirai Annuvil]

Want an interrupter? you need an Asura. Ritualist? Norn. Ranger? Human.
...why would the Ritualist, quite possible the worst designed profession in GW ever be recreated?
Why would a Ranger, a class almost defined by its interrupts not feature interruption?
How would you ever adequately explain dual classing?


how would you want it to be handled?
Bugged to not work.

[Alaris]

...why would the Ritualist, quite possible the worst designed profession in GW ever be recreated?
Why would a Ranger, a class almost defined by its interrupts not feature interruption?
How would you ever adequately explain dual classing?

Ritualist is by far my favorite secondary profession. I don't know why you hate them, but they are great.
Rangers can do a lot more than interrupts (although they are good at interrupts).

Otherwise, I agree that forcing race-profs combos is a bad idea.


I'd like the various races to have party-wide passive effects.

That will discourage ppl from making all-Asura parties. "Sry *kick* we already got an Asura". Or if they stack, it might discourage ppl from making diverse parties. "Ursan group LFM".

Might be fun, but I do hope they balance it well to prevent abuses.

[kondichael]

Of course races need differentes otherwise it would be pointless to even add more races.

Just give them some minor changes like:

Charr: Attack 5% faster, deal 5% extra.
Norn: Increased chance to get critical hit.
Asura: 10% faster energy regeneration.
Human: 15% faster health regeneration.
Sylvira: Increased chance to dodge by 5%

If u think these are unbalanced then stfu. These are only examples.

Edit: I would like samething added to pets.

[Alaris]

Of course races need differentes otherwise it would be pointless to even add more races.

Just give them some minor changes like:

Charr: Attack 5% faster, deal 5% extra.
Norn: Increased chance to get critical hit.
Asura: 10% faster energy regeneration.
Human: 15% faster health regeneration.
Sylvira: Increased chance to dodge by 5%

If u think these are unbalanced then stfu. These are only examples.

Edit: I would like samething added to pets.

I'm not going to comment on balance. Your suggestion basically says that Asuras will be casters, Norn sins, and Charr will be melee. That's usually the problem with passive bonuses.

Either that, or bonuses are so small that it doesn't matter.

That's why I'd rather opt for racial skills, you can have enough skills that any profession can take advantage of them.

[Ayarie]

Tbh Norn having a +str buff for instance is no different to warriors in gw1 who can use strength while other professions can only equip strength based skills but get less use out of them.

So even if they did Norn + Str Asura + Estorage Sylvari +divine etc = or gw2 equivalents making one character/race/X more proficient at certain things is what gw1 already did.

Personally i'd like to see a diviation from this... i don't want sylvari to be pidgeonhold as healers - I hate healing and its the race I want to play...

but if there bonuses relevant to the type of character they - in a sense norn +bear =strength etc. Asuran + rodent trap =agility etc Sylvari + tree form = defense - charr + furr ball = mental clarity or w/e. May make the characters stronger at one thing or one type of thing than the rest...but thats no change really to how it works now.

whatever they do i hope they don't do it like gw1... thousands of skills equip able by a character but no real use or inability to use more than X% efficiently.

Naru Soulfire

[casserole]

The main attraction to races for me is greater choice in customizing my character's look.

This is the biggest attraction for separate races to me as well. I don't like the idea of pidgeon-holing a race to a profession either. I'd prefer that a caster of one race be just as good as a caster from another race. I'm sure Anet can devise a way to insure equality between races and prevent stereotyping. However, if Anet finds it that difficult, then I wouldn't be against making racial differences purely aesthetic.

[Jacobbs]

If this change or mechanic is pve only, than I would not mind. That is all I will say about that.

[Alaris]

This is the biggest attraction for separate races to me as well. I don't like the idea of pidgeon-holing a race to a profession either. I'd prefer that a caster of one race be just as good as a caster from another race. I'm sure Anet can devise a way to insure equality between races and prevent stereotyping. However, if Anet finds it that difficult, then I wouldn't be against making racial differences purely aesthetic.

If they have a few skills that "target" each profession, then they can balance these skills until they hit the sweet spot.

I.E. they can reduce the Norn owl's form until it is about as attractive a choice as the Asura's ability to steal energy with each attack spells. (or whatever)

Sure it's hard to balance, but that's a cool concept, and a game I'd like to play.

[sorudo]

i was thinking, norn can turn in to bear, but what about using the other 2 blessing shapes?
bear=+ strength +armor -energy -speed
volven=+ speed +accuracy -energy -armor
raven=+ accuracy +strength +armor -speed
that way, the norn isn't only for melee, but it depends on what you use.

they could also make a lvl depending att line race specific, where the skills are that are unique for each race.
the skills will be, like the norn, made to fit any profession.
that way, no mater what race you use, you can customize it to your liking without limits of professions.

[Elex Aio]

i was thinking, norn can turn in to bear, but what about using the other 2 blessing shapes?
bear=+ strength +armor -energy -speed
volven=+ speed +accuracy -energy -armor
raven=+ accuracy +strength +armor -speed
that way, the norn isn't only for melee, but it depends on what you use.

they could also make a lvl depending att line race specific, where the skills are that are unique for each race.
the skills will be, like the norn, made to fit any profession.
that way, no mater what race you use, you can customize it to your liking without limits of professions.

There are also other spirits the Norn follow as well, lets not forget. I can right now think of the Owl and Wurm. (read it some where..)

But to build off of your idea, what if each race had a different benefit that could apply to each proffession, for example, Sylvari have agility which makes all skills recharge a LITTLE bit faster, Norn have better endurance, Asura have a slightly faster activation time (if this conflicts with Mesmer's fastcasting, then maybe they could use less resources (energy/adrenaline) for skills), Charr get some sort of buff when fighting with others (not just charr, but I get this idea from the fact that they are always with their warbands and legions), and humans have a little of each. These are all just ideas, of course.

[Tro]

With RvR being the main form of PvP, and races not restricted to certain Factions, it would be Balanced because both teams would have those racials.

All they need to do is not allow racials or Gear twinking to be allowed within GvG and other organized PvP.

[kondichael]

I'm not going to comment on balance. Your suggestion basically says that Asuras will be casters, Norn sins, and Charr will be melee. That's usually the problem with passive bonuses.

Either that, or bonuses are so small that it doesn't matter.

That's why I'd rather opt for racial skills, you can have enough skills that any profession can take advantage of them.

Thats the same as GW1.

R or W Arent made to cast spells

[BrotherGrimm]

I'm not exactly sure HOW it should be handled, but I think it would be oh so sad if an Asura were as good a warrior as a Norn. I'm NOT stating that an Asura should not be able to play, compete and even succeed as a Warrior, but if the only difference in races are the way they look, I would be mightily disappointed in the game (maybe to the point of not playing it).

On the other hand, I think the priorities used to determine the difference should be as follows:

PvP Balance (even to the extent of NOT allowing differing races in the same arena).
PvP Balance
PvP Balance
..
Lore
..
..
..
..
PUG discrimination considerations.

I know many here completely revert this order (some masocistic desire to be able to be WANTED by a PUG with the worst player combination/build in existence), but I seriously just don't care if a PUG accepts my character or not. If I have to play my Asuran Warrior with H/H or Guildies, that's just fine by me. I know that's kind of selfish and anti-social, but to destroy the possible diversity and myrid of choices that could be available in the players in GW2 for the sake of eliminating "PUG discrimination" is not only the recipe for making a boring as hell game (PvE side), but would be a terrible shame.

[Alaris]

Thats the same as GW1. R or W Arent made to cast spells

First, I can spirit spam like crazy with my R/Rt.

Second, there are lots of viable ways to combine two professions. It's very rare that someone will run a pure single profession.

Third, you're missing the point. The point is that some primaries are flexible (R, E, Me, N, W, A) and other are not (Mo, Rt, D, P). Don't debate that. In the same way, racial differences should be designed with flexibility in mind. Otherwise, you end up with Norn Warriors and Asuran Eles, even for those people who don't want to play Norn or Asura.


I'm not exactly sure HOW it should be handled, but I think it would be oh so sad if an Asura were as good a warrior as a Norn.

Asura should be as good a warrior as a Norn, otherwise your PvP balance is shot out the window.

But, Asuran Warriors should play differently from Norn Warriors. For example, Asuras might have summons or pain inverter shields to help them, whereas Norns have their animal forms. They play very differently, but they can still be balanced.

[CrimsonFlame]

I think we're getting the points mixed up. People are saying that since some classes are better at certain things than other classes, then in GW2, it makes sense for certain races to be better at certain things than other races.

Three words:
http://www.mgroves.com/images/do_not_want_star_wars.jpg

If I want to make a Charr elementalist, I don't want to be inferior to an Asuran or human elementalist. If I want to make a Sylvari warrior, then I should do just as much damage as a Norn. Racial bonuses was what I liked least about WoW. It meant that if you wanted to make, say, a Blood Elf hunter, people would simply laugh at you and say "lolol why u not roll orc n00b, belfs r teh ghey". I don't want races to be limited to certain professions in GW.

[Akirai Annuvil]

With RvR being the main form of PvP,
Source or shut the **** up (actually, source and then shut the **** up).

Ritualist is by far my favorite secondary profession. I don't know why you hate them, but they are great.
Thanks to their incredible aesthetic design I enjoy playing rits, primary. As a secondary they're in general less problematic and in some cases in fact for the win (flesh of my flesh = god). As primary though, there is no reason for their skill set to exist as the well-balanced skills number maybe in the fives. That's probably stretching it though.

[Alaris]

Thanks to their incredible aesthetic design I enjoy playing rits, primary. As a secondary they're in general less problematic and in some cases in fact for the win (flesh of my flesh = god). As primary though, there is no reason for their skill set to exist as the well-balanced skills number maybe in the fives. That's probably stretching it though.

Whuh?

If you're saying the prof is unbalanced, then that's a balance issue.

If you're saying that the skills are near-duplicates of other professions, I say so what? It's a unique re-combination of abilities that other professions have, so it gives you more diversity in how you combo different professions.

Overall though, except for the short-lived Ritspike PvP build, I would not say that Rits are unbalanced. I hope they come back in GW2, hopefully in the original instead of waiting for the expansion.

I'm totally hoping to continue with the R/Rt profession if I can.

[raspberry jam]

He's saying they have big boobs.


On the other hand, I think the priorities used to determine the difference should be as follows:

PvP Balance (even to the extent of NOT allowing differing races in the same arena).
PvP Balance
PvP Balance
..
Lore
..
..
..
..
PUG discrimination considerations.
Not putting lore last makes me sad. Lore is something you paste on after you make good game mechanics; it's a part of the immersion considerations. I mean you wouldn't want graphics to balance your game now would you?

(yes lore is cool and important and all that, but it's still not worth screwing over the actual game for.)

[nkuvu]

Example: having an asura in the team means that everyone's skills will recharge slightly faster than normal. A sylvari will slightly reduce the energy cost of all skills. Bringing along a norn friend will increase the damage done by all attacks by a small amount. And so on.

The effects should be quite weak, but strongest for the first member of each race and then weaker for each successive member, to prevent abuse.
I like this approach. It doesn't railroad someone of a given race into a particular class, and still encourages diverse parties.

Might be fun, but I do hope they balance it well to prevent abuses.
Agreed.

But I think a party-wide benefit, even if the idea needs some tweaking to achieve balance, is the best approach to racial bonuses. Assuming, of course, that racial bonuses are added at all (my personal preference is that they're not in the game in the first place).

In terms of someone being kicked due to race (the "we already have one" scenario), I don't see that as any different than being kicked for profession currently. Most groups formed in an outpost are not all of one profession.

[Alaris]

Not putting lore last makes me sad. Lore is something you paste on after you make good game mechanics.

Right on. Besides, lore can be used in various ways to justify what you do. You could take any profession, change its lore, and keep the skills intact.

Take necro for example, and make it a voodoo priest.

Curses are curses, but uses a voodoo theme instead.
Blood is life instead. Drain life instead of vampiric.
Minions would not be undead, they would be animated spirits. They would look ghostly instead of bony/fleshy.
And soul reaping is somehow more approriate to voodoo IMO.

And he forgot about PvE balance. And discrimination should rank a lot higher. Discrimination is part of balance IMO, as discrimination often starts with lack of balance.