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FOOZBEAR
23-07-2008, 00:26
I hear many people stammering on about GW2 and jumping and swimming and how they wish they could do it in GW...and how GW2 is going to be SO great because of this.

I want to know what makes jumping and swimming so important in an mmo?

for me It doesnt matter two hoots whether I can jump or swim...I cant fight while swimming...and jumping does nothing in an environment that has LOCKED on targeting.

Is the jumping phenomina a derivative of jump sniping? if so...how does it possibly fit in GW?

I saw something similar happen in another game and they introduced jumping...but they forgot the code didnt have a Z axis...so you couldnt even jump over boxes.

Can anyone tell me why jumping and swimming is so important?

Zilken Zatin
23-07-2008, 00:28
interaction (the lack of it)?
realism?
theres LOTS more ...

GrimShade
23-07-2008, 00:43
Don't care honestly. It sounds like a pain to me. The only time I will like jumping or swiming is if I can attack someone who is swiming. dead meat...

No Burdens
23-07-2008, 00:46
interaction (the lack of it)?
realism?
theres LOTS more ...

You want that, GO OUT SIDE


Seriously jump and swim and climb are just the hype for you to spend $50 to buy their new product. Do you think the VCR was that much different than the Beta Max? Personally I wish they cam out with a different game you could juggle in and left all the players in GW rather than splitting up the haves from the have nots and further diluting the player pool and forcing anyone looking for interaction with real people to "jump" to GW2.

Barinthus
23-07-2008, 00:47
I admit when I first played GW I tried jumping and was surprised it wasn't an option. It's something I've gotten used to having playing so many games.

However, in the grant scheme, jumping isn't that important to me.

I also will never understand why people are so gaga over swimming.

Karn the Betrayer
23-07-2008, 00:59
lets just add weather affecting our skills too XD for instance a sudden gust of wind messes up the trajectory of a rangers arrow, a ele's fire spell don't work too well wile its raining, warriros cabt run fast enough wile going through a swamp.... XD female dervs worrying about their butt looking too big in skirts

Barinthus
23-07-2008, 01:07
Omg omg why don't we have leeches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Yv9TLkjl0&feature=related) draining our health while we're going thru a swamp or something?

And since pets are often "underwater" in those areas, let's have them drown to death!

Tru Reptile
23-07-2008, 01:35
If GW2 offers huge landscapes, then people should be able to explore as much of it as the want. Unless people can come up with a better solution that lets the player explore these areas without jumping, swimming and climbing, then I'm all ears.

I'm not sure why this thread isn't in the GW2 discussion.

Ohnimusha
23-07-2008, 01:50
lets just add weather affecting our skills too XD for instance a sudden gust of wind messes up the trajectory of a rangers arrow, a ele's fire spell don't work too well wile its raining, warriros cabt run fast enough wile going through a swamp.... XD female dervs worrying about their butt looking too big in skirts


they will do something like that skills performing diffrent dependig on many factors


i dont theink they will make gw2 just 4 jumping and this kinds stuff....they just add it kas they can and it will be cool 2 have it

FOOZBEAR
23-07-2008, 01:57
If GW2 offers huge landscapes, then people should be able to explore as much of it as the want. Unless people can come up with a better solution that lets the player explore these areas without jumping, swimming and climbing, then I'm all ears.

I'm not sure why this thread isn't in the GW2 discussion.

because its not about GW2...but why people in GW want jumping and swimming

nkuvu
23-07-2008, 02:00
The only thing that bothers me about the lack of swimming and jumping is when the landscape looks perfectly passable -- but it isn't.

For instance, a small stream can prevent the character from continuing. In some areas a very minor hill can be an obstacle. A two foot drop blocks characters completely. (wait, my character can fight and defeat a god, but can't jump down two or three feet?)

I fully understand boundaries on maps, but make them actually look like something that my character wouldn't be able to get past. But that's not about jumping or swimming, really.

Although if jumping and swimming are in the game, it's more likely that I'll get what I want -- obvious blocks rather than arbitrary "you can't go past this spot" zones.

Zilken Zatin
23-07-2008, 02:09
You want that, GO OUT SIDE


And breathe fresh air!!!??? Holy crap man! Are you insane?!?!? lol

mysticangelkin
23-07-2008, 02:10
Omg omg why don't we have leeches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Yv9TLkjl0&feature=related) draining our health while we're going thru a swamp or something?

And since pets are often "underwater" in those areas, let's have them drown to death!

No, we have degen effects such as poison and disease for that. We also have being set aflame when you set foot into lava. But that's nothing.

MoonUnit
23-07-2008, 02:11
And breathe fresh air!!!??? Holy crap man! Are you insane?!?!? lol

Fresh air?! What's that?

Shadowspawn X
23-07-2008, 02:46
Jumping ,swimming and climbing will add absolutely nothing to this game except grind. Getting from point a to b is gonna be a grind now. People noticed there was none of that crap and had to complain about it. Well they gonna get what they wished for because slugging though rivers going to be slow and tedious and not fun.

Not KANE from Guru
23-07-2008, 02:56
I remember when a mod for the original Doom came out (Z-Doom, I believe). You could hop up and down like a jackrabbit on crack as well as look up and down.

You couldn't do either of those things originally, and it didn't affect the single player game or Deathmatch (*sigh* Those were the days).

But the thing is, it was fun as hell. I don't see the problem with it whether it affects gameplay or not.

Van Tomiko
23-07-2008, 03:12
If GW2 consist of swimming and jumping, i can surely say : Tomb Raider > GW2. I could imagine we must beat the legendary dragons by swimming between their leg so they will stretch temself and fall down. After that all of us have to jump(stomp) of the dragon's body to bury it into the ground. In this case .... God Of War > GW2

Not KANE from Guru
23-07-2008, 05:31
If GW2 consist of swimming and jumping, i can surely say : Tomb Raider > GW2. I could imagine we must beat the legendary dragons by swimming between their leg so they will stretch temself and fall down. After that all of us have to jump(stomp) of the dragon's body to bury it into the ground. In this case .... God Of War > GW2

Just stop it, you're being so negative (as well as naive, at your attempt at sarcasm), it's pathetic.

Why don't we, uh..... just wait and see? And chill the fook out. These GW2 threads suck.

Reverend Dr
23-07-2008, 05:57
I don't care so much about jumping or swimming. If it does get put in, whatever, but I surely hope they don't allow the stupid bunny hopping I see so much in other games. The amout of needless jumping seen from more traditional MMO's should be evidence enough.

woot im a warrior
23-07-2008, 06:31
I don't see why people have an issue with jumping or swimming. It just adds to the amount of exploration you can do. I hate not being able to go somewhere because of a stupid little rock blocking the way. More exploration is never a bad thing.

Jacobbs
23-07-2008, 07:01
interaction (the lack of it)?
realism?
theres LOTS more ...

Cause summoning a firestorm is realistic.


I don't see why people have an issue with jumping or swimming. It just adds to the amount of exploration you can do. I hate not being able to go somewhere because of a stupid little rock blocking the way. More exploration is never a bad thing.

I don't have a problem with the concept, but the crux here is that there's always a temptation to add mechanics to it that can affect game play. ie, jump crits or whatever hell, can really ruin the game's combat mechanics. if it's going ot be well thought out and interesting, sure. Otherwise, no thanks. Just a gimmick mechanic like Red Faction's original Geo Mod.

Alsken Mirahio
23-07-2008, 07:59
Lots of assumption going on up in here. o.o

Satinka
23-07-2008, 08:18
My main issue with jumping is that in most games the characters jump around like Super Mario. I mean, how high can an untrained jump? Maybe 50 to 60cm?
Add heavy armor of Warriors and see how far you get. Or robes out of linen. Many don't know how heavy this stuff can be when it covers almost the whole body.

Swimming? It is like: "Wait, I have to undress my Robes/Armor before we can swim through the river."

OK. It is a game, but most often games reflect realism.

My biggest disapointment was when some friend of mine showed me this new FPS back the days (don't know was it counterstrike?) and all I was seeing were people jumping around like mad bunnies.
I got another bad taste of this when seeing a WoW clip of a Hunter who jumped, turned in the air, fired an arrow, turned back and jumped again. All this madness to kill a monster he was fleeing from.

So jumping/swimming unless well implemented is a Big No Go for me.

raspberry jam
23-07-2008, 08:39
I don't see why people have an issue with jumping or swimming. It just adds to the amount of exploration you can do. I hate not being able to go somewhere because of a stupid little rock blocking the way. More exploration is never a bad thing.Um no

That rock blocks the way because that's how the map is made. If you are not meant to go in a certain place, you won't be able to even if you could fly.


It gets funnier... I can't cross streams that are apparently fordable but I can cross streams which are so deep, I'm completely submerged...You'd be able to swim in those deep streams, but you would still be unable to cross the small ones because they are marked in the game as unpassable.

Lady Rhonwyn
23-07-2008, 09:08
The only thing that bothers me about the lack of swimming and jumping is when the landscape looks perfectly passable -- but it isn't.

For instance, a small stream can prevent the character from continuing. In some areas a very minor hill can be an obstacle. A two foot drop blocks characters completely. (wait, my character can fight and defeat a god, but can't jump down two or three feet?)

It gets funnier... I can't cross streams that are apparently fordable but I can cross streams which are so deep, I'm completely submerged... Same with heights. I can't jump on ledges that are as high as my knees, but some stairs, which are as high as my shoulders, I can climb...

And that's why jumping and swimming would be an asset.

woot im a warrior
23-07-2008, 11:24
Um no

That rock blocks the way because that's how the map is made. If you are not meant to go in a certain place, you won't be able to even if you could fly.

I am aware that is where the map ends, but if jumping and swimming were involved, it allows them to make the maps bigger, and allow for exploration. That is a huge thing that turned me off to PvE in GW, you have to follow flat ground, it just feels like there is no freedom.

raspberry jam
23-07-2008, 13:18
I am aware that is where the map ends, but if jumping and swimming were involved, it allows them to make the maps bigger, and allow for exploration. That is a huge thing that turned me off to PvE in GW, you have to follow flat ground, it just feels like there is no freedom.Yes I know what you mean.

Just a thought, with a more physically accurate, terrain dependent system (that's what jumping and swimming is all about, after all) maybe they could also make terrain give combat advantages. Like, if someone is standing behind a rock or inside a bush there would be a % chance to miss him with projectiles, or if you are standing waist deep in water, fire spells would have less effect on you (including positive ones like Flame Djinn's Haste).

BrotherGrimm
23-07-2008, 18:31
I'm not apposed to some sort of jumping/climbing system to allow for actual travel to reach remote locations in the area (and there is a reason to reach these areas), but swimming sounds like a pain (already mentioned) to me.

I'm definitely going to reserve any opinion of how jumping (or whatever) effect skills in GW2 before I take any stand on the issue. I just REALLY hope they don't turn battles into UT2003 jump/crouch bounce fests....I seriously don't want another hybrid 3rd person shooter.

CyricD
23-07-2008, 18:35
I just hope with jumping and swimming, the don't use the "The world ends here" kind of maps. I hate that. When for no reason, you're suddenly looking down into a bottomless chasm that goes on forever in each direction. Or a very unrealistic line of trees with no openings that, again, goes on forever. And it usually has to be something like that, so you can't find a way to jump over it.

As it is now, in GW, A simple body of water, or raised cliff section, or anything like that, and you know that's the end of the map. But it still looks realistic, because there's landscape beyond it. So what you can't get to it? You'd rather they just made a huge brick wall surrounding every explorable area? Or get the feeling you're always on some giant floating island with an abyss at every edge?

WoW. I don't want that. So, I don't care about jumping. I just hope they stay creative with 'map edges'.

Drec Sutal
23-07-2008, 18:46
As long as people don't jump around in PvP like rabbits on crack I really don't care. I suspect a realistic jump height and making sure you don't run faster if you hop would help with that.... and an aftercast would work as a last resort.

sorudo
23-07-2008, 19:53
it isn't about ppl want, more the game is able to because X reason.
in GW2, you can fight while moving......or something like that.

Lamuness
23-07-2008, 20:12
As long as people don't jump around in PvP like rabbits on crack I really don't care. I suspect a realistic jump height and making sure you don't run faster if you hop would help with that.... and an aftercast would work as a last resort.

Oh they will.

KyppDuron
23-07-2008, 20:16
I don't see why people have an issue with jumping or swimming. It just adds to the amount of exploration you can do. I hate not being able to go somewhere because of a stupid little rock blocking the way. More exploration is never a bad thing.

ok, no. Really all jumping/swimming is going to do is make that little river/rock into an OMFG HUGE river/rock.

it isn't going to make a difference to the exploration part of the game, combat however could end up much better, or much worse.

Saldonus Darkholme
23-07-2008, 21:47
Omg omg why don't we have leeches (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Yv9TLkjl0&feature=related) draining our health while we're going thru a swamp or something?

And since pets are often "underwater" in those areas, let's have them drown to death!

This isn't anything new:

In Prophecies, you had the poisonous swamps and random lava ball in the Fire Islands.

In Factions, you have the crystal coral that does damage.

DarkWasp
23-07-2008, 22:03
Im one of those people who likes to play games that weren't made with the bare minimum for gameplay.

When the speculation of hairdressers in EN began, some said it would be a waste of time that Anet shoulda spent making skills or missions, others (like myself) felt that it would be a nice lil addition that would bring the overall quality of the game up.


I played LOTRO for about 2 months, the only reason I lasted that long was because there was a /music feature. (Also there was a cool bug where you could lay on the ground then jump up and scream in someone's face then pop back down).

Thats why most of us are excited about jumping and swimming, because we wont be just playing "Poker" any more we'll be playing "Cards".

(Its also extremely halarious to watch someone fall off a tower)

raspberry jam
24-07-2008, 00:30
When the speculation of hairdressers in EN began, some said it would be a waste of time that Anet shoulda spent making skills or missions, others (like myself) felt that it would be a nice lil addition that would bring the overall quality of the game up.This is a nice time to make the correlation regarding EotN between waste of time (polymock and similar minigames, speaking NPCs etc) and the messed up actual game content (dungeons that are literally pasted together from smaller, repeatedly reused pieces, unbalanced PvE-only skills). Nice little additions are indeed nice, but they still shouldn't be prioritized above the actual game.

DarkWasp
24-07-2008, 02:00
Polymock doesn't count because you can't take it with you, like jumping, hair styles, and /music.

Nemeon Lion
24-07-2008, 02:21
Polymock doesn't count because you can't take it with you, like jumping, hair styles, and /music.


It doesn't matter. Time spent on minigames and things that don't have a direct impact on gameplay is time wasted the devs could have used to create more missions, skills, maps, dungeons or items.

Now, if the addition of jumping will improve PvP and PvE (if implemented right of course, no one likes bunny hoppers) then it's worth adding.

Ryuujinx
24-07-2008, 02:26
A big resounding no from me on jumping. I played a few games that could jump and swim (WoW, L2, LotRO) and in all of them I despised it. Bunch of bunnies. I swear.

DarkWasp
24-07-2008, 06:55
It doesn't matter. Time spent on minigames and things that don't have a direct impact on gameplay is time wasted the devs could have used to create more missions, skills, maps, dungeons or items.

Now, if the addition of jumping will improve PvP and PvE (if implemented right of course, no one likes bunny hoppers) then it's worth adding.

So RP aspects dont have a direct impact on gameplay in an RPG... I'll remember that.

SibbTigre
24-07-2008, 11:07
He's right in that polymock doesn't.

All polymock gives is a selection of skills that are not really needed in PvE, and can't be used in PvP. The novelty of having a mursaat for Djinn pop up and attack our enemies got old, fast.

Rhinala
24-07-2008, 12:52
I got another bad taste of this when seeing a WoW clip of a Hunter who jumped, turned in the air, fired an arrow, turned back and jumped again. All this madness to kill a monster he was fleeing from.


The hunter was kiting the monster. you can pull it to a long distance and stay relativly safe in this way (in this way people pulled a giant dragon to a city).

I dont realy care if there will be jumping or swimming...
The ability to jump means that you can fall of high cliffs and find yourself resed or next to the nearest shrine.
In the other hand you can jump off a cliff/hill to go to the portal rather then go the long way (the crystal deserd is the best example for a place that shuld have it)

Balan Makki
24-07-2008, 15:04
I . . . .

Can anyone tell me why jumping and swimming is so important?

Who knows what Arena Net has planned. But I'd like to see an MMO with Tomb Raider/Prince of Persia like control some day, where vertical environments, such as 7k ft high cliffs are populated by Tengu or Simians and exploration is virtually in the Z axis. Environments that take a player higher and higher, or deeper and deeper into an abyss. Climbing control could be handled completely client-side, thus no worries about latency, when trying to velcro yourself to a bolder or castle wall.

I did hate the Jump-spin-shoot krap used as a hunter in WoW--way too much twitch required, and a necessary skill if you wanted your legendary bow. . .. But some simple two button combos while running are easy enough for anyone to handle, could even implement a simple macroing system that makes everything a one button combo. If implemented properly it would not be a task, but enjoyable.

If jumping, swimming, swinging, flying are handled well, and it opens up environmental possibilities never seen before in an MMO, then I'm in favor of such features.

raspberry jam
24-07-2008, 15:13
Climbing control could be handled completely client-side, thus no worries about latency, when trying to velcro yourself to a bolder or castle wall.If you implement falling and/or any kind of height/height retention advantage whatsoever; no it can't, since it opens up to cheating.

Balan Makki
24-07-2008, 15:25
the only reason I lasted that long was because there was a /music feature.

(Its also extremely halarious to watch someone fall off a tower)

Player Music was/is the best feature ever created by Turbine. Loved that feature . ..

Z-Axis opens up so many possibilities, that there are just too many to discuss. The difference between 2d and 3d really.


If you implement falling and/or any kind of height/height retention advantage whatsoever; no it can't, since it opens up to cheating.

The client executes, the server then validates, this does not require latency. If the action is invalidated by the server, the client will eventually, in a few seconds, see their attempted exploit fail. Sorry about using the word 'Completely' oops.

See GW1.

Alaris
24-07-2008, 15:54
Jump, swim, climb...

I it allows a game designers to create different experiences. Like underwater caves, or a level on a giant tree... It also allows them to set traps that you need to jump over, or bosses that make you fall off a platform, and you need to climb back.

To me, it's not the actions, but everything else that comes with it.

CyricD
25-07-2008, 00:39
Jump, swim, climb...
...It also allows them to set traps that you need to jump over, or bosses that make you fall off a platform, and you need to climb back...

I just had a horrid vision of a game called "Super Guild Wars Bros."

Flamefang of Arnor
25-07-2008, 03:27
Who knows what Arena Net has planned. But I'd like to see an MMO with Tomb Raider/Prince of Persia like control some day, where vertical environments, such as 7k ft high cliffs are populated by Tengu or Simians and exploration is virtually in the Z axis. Environments that take a player higher and higher, or deeper and deeper into an abyss. Climbing control could be handled completely client-side, thus no worries about latency, when trying to velcro yourself to a bolder or castle wall.

I did hate the Jump-spin-shoot krap used as a hunter in WoW--way too much twitch required, and a necessary skill if you wanted your legendary bow. . .. But some simple two button combos while running are easy enough for anyone to handle, could even implement a simple macroing system that makes everything a one button combo. If implemented properly it would not be a task, but enjoyable.

If jumping, swimming, swinging, flying are handled well, and it opens up environmental possibilities never seen before in an MMO, then I'm in favor of such features.

Balaan you took the Words right out of my mouth! come on who doesn't want to fihgt to the top of a massive cliff or amybe attack a hilltop fortress by climbing the rocks up? maybe swimming in through caves....

although with these advantages i have to say that Jumping has its disadvantages.... for example bunny hopping and a warrior in full armor jumping up and down while swinging a huge sword....

im relying in the Ingenious Anet team to isolate and remove such problems from GW2!

And like posted before... I'm in Favor of jumping and swimming by a whole lot!

~Flamefang of Arnor

DarkWasp
25-07-2008, 03:53
I just had a horrid vision of a game called "Super Guild Wars Bros."

We could request some First Person and call it "Half-Wars 2" or "Guild-Life 2".

Scott the Green
25-07-2008, 05:28
We could request some First Person and call it "Half-Wars 2" or "Guild-Life 2".

So our classes would be Scientist, Rebel, and Combine? Or would zombies be playable?

Gmr Leon
25-07-2008, 05:37
So our classes would be Scientist, Rebel, and Combine? Or would zombies be playable?

No, zombies wouldn't, but Headcrabs and Vortigaunts would be.