skills you like to see in GW2

[Karn the Betrayer]

a ele skill to make a gawd almighty wammo explosion coupled with a shockwave.. i can just imagine players typing WT[censored] lol I'd love to see that sort of skill used on a group of margs let alone in pvp lol

[cyll]

Protective spirit.
items I'd like to see: CoA grim cesta, sup runes

[Rhinala]

In GW2 a Warrior shuld be able to taunt the enemies in pve.

[Simply Kedde]

^No way.. Taunt skills are just stupid and lead to the ever so boring and mind numbing tanking builds that shouldn't be needed. Ever.

I'd like to see skills like Bull's strike, Frenzy, Diversion, Distracting Shot, Reversal Of Fortune and the like. Skills that require thinking and skill in execution to be used to their fullest potential.

[Wonderboy Jack]

Protective Spirit, Broad Head Shot, Burning Arrow (with actual burning arrow head).

[Akirai Annuvil]

protective Spirit.

+ 1

[Xunlai Agent]

RoF, Prot Spirit, Frenzy and Searing Flames (lulz joke but dont make eles crap at dealing damage which was the case before SF)

[Balan Makki]

Stealth (hide, infiltrate), Fear (disorient, stun), Long Pull (Bow), Dual Wield for Melee class . . .

Like to see how Arena Net would implement such features. They did a real nice job in the Gwen bonus mission for Hide (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Hide.jpg).

A GW2 skill. ^^ very likely.

[Simply Kedde]

I don't want any of those RPG cliche skills in gw2. Stealth is like lulz I can has invisibilty and one-shot you with my ultimate killzor skill of doom and be invisible again. Fear is like super OP when you can pack 8 of those and make a whole party useless for god knows how long and just go gank people 1 by one so the others don't get to do anything. Long bows? what? We already have long bows as a type of bows that are used to pull mobs with, why use a skill for that? Dual-Wield, that's for the looks right? I doubt that could be well balanced easily. 2-handed weapons were already hard enough to balance in gw and I don't see dual-wield being any easier.

[raspberry jam]

Stealth (hide, infiltrate), Fear (disorient, stun), Long Pull (Bow), Dual Wield for Melee class . . . I hope not. Both stealth and fear is basically the same as taunt; force the AI (well, since they are absolutely out of the question in PvP) into a seemingly unnatural state. I would however like to see smarter AI, such as melee enemies that are less likely to keep attacking when they get a Spiteful Spirit-like spell cast on them.

Dual Wield sure, if they can balance it, which they probably can't.


Skills that require thinking and skill in execution to be used to their fullest potential.This sounds better. Both for PvE and PvP.

[Apple Tox]

In GW2 a Warrior shuld be able to taunt the enemies in pve.

This is GUILD WARS

NOT WORLD OF WARCRAFT.

Oh My Gosh......No Taunting.

And Why Are We Even Discussing This Thread? There isnt Going To Be Any Old Skills From GW 1 In GW 2, and Definetly Not The Extensive Shockwave Thing That The OP was Talking About.

A-Net Said They Were Dumbing Down The Skills, So They Werent As Complex, But They Reacted Differently in Different Enviorments.
And They Also Said No More Elites.

For All We Know There Could Only Be 20 Skills In The Whole Game, That Just Have Different Effects With Different people Or Eviorments.

~Apple

[Simply Kedde]

They might not take any skills directly over, but they can still use the good design from some skills in gw2 and scrap the really bad ones and wonder how the h*** they implemented those in gw.

But why shouldn't we discuss this? It's about what a bit of the community wants in gw2, if some dev or Regina or whoever might read this they just shouldn't take stuff like taunt and whatever as real suggestions.

[Apple Tox]

Which Is Why We Shouldnt Discuss it.

A-net Is Sort of Known For Adding Some Really Wierd Things To The Game.

They Might Actually Like Utter Garbage Like "Taunt".

~Apple

[Erring Ryft]

Which Is Why We Shouldnt Discuss it.

A-net Is Sort of Known For Adding Some Really Wierd Things To The Game.

They Might Actually Like Utter Garbage Like "Taunt".

~Apple

I'm sure they won't, considering the thoughtful and persuasive argument you've presented.

Although, yeah, I'm against the whole "taunt" thing too...I mean, think about it, with all the ridiculous things the NPCs say when you click them, Lord knows what your character would be spouting...

"I'm going to charr you charr to the bone!" :duh:

[Apple Tox]

Lol..I don't think thats what the poster meant.

Taunt is basically when your character is able to draw agrro to himself instead of having it spread out. Tanks In WoW Use it to hold agrro.

It is also used to agrro normally non attacking creatures, or only aggroing a sinlge creature in a group.

~Apple

EDIT: The last line was funny though...Charr You To The Bone...Rofl

[GADefence]

Anything "make the NPC do this now" should be reserved to allies only (AKA - free skill called "flee" that anyone can have and doesn't take a skill slot, etc) - fear, why? What next, Mind Control? Yay, carry mind control equal to the enemy monk group and GG? Etc etc.

Dual wield and two handed weapons could easily be fixed by making them visual only. EX : You equip a two handed Zweihander, get 15-22 damage, and get an invisible shield in your off hand. Your Zweihander works exactly the same as a normal sword, same for two handed - equip a two hander weapon in your main hand, invisible shield in off hand. There - no balance issue and the people that want two weapons are happy.

I'd personally like to see a skill to keep griefers and retarded people in like - something along the line of "Kill Stupid." I'll keep dreaming.

[raspberry jam]

And They Also Said No More Elites.Where did they say that?


Dual wield and two handed weapons could easily be fixed by making them visual only. EX : You equip a two handed Zweihander, get 15-22 damage, and get an invisible shield in your off hand. Your Zweihander works exactly the same as a normal sword, same for two handed - equip a two hander weapon in your main hand, invisible shield in off hand. There - no balance issue and the people that want two weapons are happy.But a zweihander is a two-handed sword.
What people who ask for dual wield want is the option to put one one-handed weapon in you left hand and another one-handed weapon in your right hand, basically giving up defense for more damage. I wouldn't mind it, I would even like it - as long as they can keep it balanced, which I doubt.

[Sobric]

Issues of taunt skills are made moot by my aggro list idea, here. (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showthread.php?t=480099&page=2)

*cough* shameless self-promotion. Here's my card. I do weddings, bar-mitzvahs and funerals.

[Akirai Annuvil]

A-Net Said They Were Dumbing Down The Skills, So They Werent As Complex, But They Reacted Differently in Different Enviorments.
So? If the community likes prot spirit, and if it isn't a hella broken skill (which it isn't) chances are there'll be a skill which will work like prot spirit in at least certain conditions.

And They Also Said No More Elites.
Until You Can Actually Source Your Information I'm Happy To Call Bull**** On Your Inconveniently Capitalized Rubbish.

Stealth (hide, infiltrate), Fear (disorient, stun), Long Pull (Bow), Dual Wield for Melee class . . .

Like to see how Arena Net would implement such features. They did a real nice job in the Gwen bonus mission for Hide.
No they didn't. Making a character untargetable is one of the most broken things possible PvE and PvP. Fear is retarded, especially on other players but in PvE as well making the permabad AI even worse. Long pull is already in the game, by the name of 'flatbow'. Dual Wield is a quick road to broken in so many ways.

[Balan Makki]

^^Shadow Form^^

A lot of impressive whines on why many of you would not like something or another. If Arena Net were to implement, say, a WoW version of Stealth, Fear, Mind Control, taunt etc. Then all your whines might be valid. (Fear already exists in GW, in the form of AoE scatter, just add more dimensions to it. Taunt does not need to be a Aggro magnet, it could be a Damage Redirect: See GW1)

I qualified my suggestion by saying I'd like to see how Arena Net would implement such features were they included in GW2. Done Correctly, Balance Properly, Anything is Possible.

Did I suggest that Arena Net add overpowered versions of these unique skills? No I did not. Designed properly, and balanced thoughtfully, anything would be viable, in PvE and PvP. I stick by my statement, "I would like to see how Arena Net might handle/implementing such skills."

Are these skills overpowered in other games? On a whole, No, They Are Not. Once balanced with counters, and diminishing returns, they are only effective when used by a very skilled player, and are very "situational". Added tactical and strategic depth is always a good thing.

I'm guessing many of these whines have no foundation in real experience. As many of the suggested skills are actually very weak, and very impractical in most situations, especially PvP. I support Arena Net if they are planning to add such skills. If they are not? then . . . .

/yawn.

[Simply Kedde]

You don't think a taunt that draws all nearby creatures from their current targets to you is overpowered?
If you want damage redirect we already have it in gw in form of skills like Angelic Bond and Life Bond reducing the targets damage and redirecting some of it to you. And if you mean redirecting all damage to another character then how is it not the typical taunt.

A thing like stun is just unneeded as we already have a thing called knockdowns which basically do the exact same thing, shutting down a target for a short time disabling almost any abilities they have.

AoE scatter is not in any way like fear. It's simple intelligence just not very high and also very limited intelligence. It's as simple as taking numerous hits of the same source not moving away and not a target, move away to not take continous damage.

As you say things like invisibility, Confusion, Taunt, Mind Control and whatever floats your boat would be weak I'd like you to post some examples as to how you'd like those implemented.

[Akirai Annuvil]

Are these skills overpowered in other games? On a whole, No, They Are Not.
Name one game where they're good.

[Sobric]

Name one game where they're good.

I agree that an overuse of skills that take control away from the player are a bad thing. In Dark Age of Camelot (pre-SI, the last time I played), the amount of Crowd Control was excessive. Snares, Stuns, Mezzes, all frustrating. Snares are acceptable because they only hinder, not completely shut-down, movement. Mezzes, while really frustrating, did mean that the target could not be attacked if the mezz were to stay on. Stuns, meanwhile, were ridiculous. I personally dislike knock-downs in GWs, even though they were fairly balanced.

On the other hand, well balanced CC does add an extra dimension to the game. But perhaps nothing that isn't already added by protection spells, or interrupts.

[Balan Makki]

If you want damage redirect we already have it in gw in form of skills like Angelic Bond and Life Bond reducing the targets damage and redirecting some of it to you.



See GW1 At least you read the post.


AoE scatter is not in any way like fear.Depends.


As you say things like invisibility, Confusion, Taunt, Mind Control . . . I'd like you to post some examples as to how you'd like those implemented.

I'd rather leave that to the professionals. But if I did, you can rest assured, it would not be your versions of the skills. If Arena Net does plan to add many new features, I completely trust their ability to work out the finer details.


Name one game where they're good.

Would require absured amounts of waisted time to agrue such subjective points and opinions.

If they are planed for Guild Wars 2, then they'll be good. Maybe even better than good.

[BlueHeaven]

Charm. Not charm animal, Charm Foe, definitely a mesmer skill, can that foe become at ally for X number of seconds (wouldn't effect bosses).

Would I like to see it, not really. But just think GW2 should offer something different than GW1 other than new graphics and storyline.

[Balan Makki]

Charm. Not charm animal, Charm Foe, definitely a mesmer skill, can that foe become at ally for X number of seconds (wouldn't effect bosses).

Would I like to see it, not really. But just think GW2 should offer something different than GW1 other than new graphics and storyline.

Mind Control in WoW for instance, comparably speaking, was extremely difficult to use, very situational, virtually non-viable in PvP and PvE due to chance of breaking, diminishing returns, distance to target, over aggression from skill use. When it did work? Fun as hell. Having played Shadow Priest primarily, even the Fears were underwhelming, especially when everyone has a counter to it. In PvE Fear, Scare Beast, Intimidating Shout, etc had very dangerous repercussions, and were used more as a last ditch effort to survive a bad situation. Stealth has so many counters to it in WoW, that getting ganked by a Stealthed rogue, or Shadowed Melded night elf meant you were either out leveled (stat inferior), or just a bad player. There were so many stealthed rogues in PvP you could cast fear ever few minutes and scatter a swarm of them like flies. DoT them up and be on your merry way.

Should Arena Net do it like this? Absolutely not. They should make it their own if they are planning such new features. Make it unique to GW, and revolutionary.

[Simply Kedde]

If none of your ideas are anything like what these kinds of skills are represented like on other RPG's then its more just a really bad way to use the naming for those old cliche skills.

But taking your WoW example. If there are really so many rogues using stealth(of course there are) then it must be vastly superior to the other choices they have available. And when so many people use the same skill you'll want to bring a counter to that, which is not what you want in gw. We call that build wars. countering the most popular build which in an ideal situation should not be necessarry because then it'd be imbalanced.

[Akirai Annuvil]

But if I did, you can rest assured, it would not be your versions of the skills.
A different way of formulating the above is to say:
"Rest assured, you don't have a clue what I'm talking about and never could have."
If we can't possibly imagine what your suggestions are talking about how can ANet? Oh wait they can't, as apparently, the suggestions you so vaguely allude to are so unique they're not in anyway similar to their contemporaries.
Thank god you refuse to clarify, we might all be blown away by your limitless creativity and most likely unfailing immunity to criticism.

[BlueHeaven]

A different way of formulating the above is to say:
"Rest assured, you don't have a clue what I'm talking about and never could have."
If we can't possibly imagine what your suggestions are talking about how can ANet? Oh wait they can't, as apparently, the suggestions you so vaguely allude to are so unique they're not in anyway similar to their contemporaries.
Thank god you refuse to clarify, we might all be blown away by your limitless creativity and most likely unfailing immunity to criticism.

I really hope your not older than 12, cause you whine and yell like a child in every thread you post. Take a couple deep breaths, say to your self "This is a brain storm type thread", maybe try to respond in a less "I'm gonna kick your face in!!!" manner.

[Akirai Annuvil]

I really hope your not older than 12, cause you whine and yell like a child in every thread you post. Take a couple deep breaths, say to your self "This is a brain storm type thread", maybe try to respond in a less "I'm gonna kick your face in!!!" manner.
I really hope you learn the difference between your and you're someday.

[BlueHeaven]

I really hope you learn the difference between your and you're someday.

I really hope you notice how you like to divert attention away from the arguments at hand so you feel superior in some strange way someday. Going after grammar on an internet forum . . .

[Erring Ryft]

I really hope you notice how you like to divert attention away from the arguments at hand so you feel superior in some strange way someday. Going after grammar on an internet forum . . .


It's proceeding.

So...for Halloween this year, would you like to be a pot, or a kettle?

[BlueHeaven]

So...for Halloween this year, would you like to be a pot, or a kettle?

Thought I'd try it out the grammar **** role. It looked like so much fun. Afterwards I felt dirty.

[Akirai Annuvil]

Unfortunately, you corrected my spelling not my grammar. Learn the difference if you want to ***** about it.


http://www.tonystarkz.com/GrammarPolice.gif

[BlueHeaven]

Unfortunately, you corrected my spelling not my grammar. Learn the difference if you want to ***** about it.


http://www.tonystarkz.com/GrammarPolice.gif

I'll PM you my posts before hand so you can proof read from now on.

[Akirai Annuvil]

Awesome.
As I'm bored atm, anyway, wanna see how fast we can boost this thread to page #2?
In reaction to PM: before hand = beforehand. proof read = proofread.
Though that's technically punctuality not grammar.

[Balan Makki]

A different way of formulating the above is to say:
"Rest assured . . Blah, Blah, Blah. . unfailing immunity to criticism.

Why clarify, you'd only whine. I'm not a game balancer/designer, nor do I pretend to be. If Arena Net has some of these planned for GW2 I completely support their decision. And, as stated above, multiple times, I will defer to their judgment on the issue of skills, balancing, features. Trying to micro manage an idea in a river of whine, on an internet forum, with juveniles, is not why I'm here, posting in this thread.

If Arena Net is planning to use these skills and features for GW2, I'm here to throw in my support. If they feel as you do, that it is an insurmountable obstacle, then, "Oh, well".

It's a lot like the endless level debate. Many see it as an endless grind. I can see it following a purely GW style of gaming. Will it be the way I see it?? Who knows. . Do you know? No, you don't. Solutions to very robust game features such as Stealth, Fear, Taunt, Charm-- it is all but sneezing in the wind especially when it has been done, and could be done in so many millions of ways.

The gang at Arena Net have proven themselves time and time again to have solved endless MMO - RPG genre belly aches. Again and again they have done what many in the industry said could not be done. All I'm saying is: I'd be excited to see how they would handle such skills.

[Vlekje Mai]

I understand that many people don't like the idea of a "hide" skill and although I disagree with them one thing that I think should be done, if there is not such a skill, is to set it up so that if you approach a bad guy from a blind spot (like behind a wall) that the aggro bubble doesn't activate them.

[Simply Kedde]

They've solved endless MMO problems. Now how did they? They made a game differing widly from any other MMO in mechanics built on a game engine they created themselves. You know why there was never a taunt skill in the first place? It just wasn't how they envisioned it as being. And it also came out as completely unnecessary which is a great thing for the game. Not needing people to tank shows that either the mobs are just so plain bad and underpowered it's not needed which wasn't the case in the later areas. It just showed people adapted to another technique that made it unneeded.

You just wanting to support that IF they're going to use skills alike them is just not for this thread. If you don't have a clear idea as to what the skills you want to see should be like, then you would want a thread asking whether they'll be using such skills in gw2 and then if they are, you'll be supporting them.

[Rhinala]

Aggro control can add so much to the game.
Taunts can come in many ways as shouts, as attacks, as AoE skill.
You say that tanking is not needed in the game, but it is your game style, should all have this game style?
If one likes to be a tank should he be a joke?
A tank even in GW can do wonders.
I'm doing 2 dungeons a day, 1 challenge dungeon with 6 players no cons and no ursan every week and we are doing wonderfully.
Are we using a tank? hell yes, is he save out butt most of the time? yes he is.
So in your words we are doing something wrong in out play style.
The great thing about guild wars is that it have so many ways to beat the area/dungeon/missions, crowd control can be another way.

[Balan Makki]

If you don't have a clear idea as to what the skills you want to see.

Please read my first post in this thread.

[raspberry jam]

Solutions to very robust game features such as Stealth, Fear, Taunt, Charm-- it is all but sneezing in the wind especially when it has been done, and could be done in so many millions of ways.The thing about such skills is that there is no solution. Either you design the game so that they have to be used (e.g. WoW) or you let them be overpowered (e.g. Baldur's Gate 2).

Also, fear is distinctly different from AoE flee. When you cast a fear spell to make mobs flee, they flee because you cast such a spell, with the obvious intent of making that happen. With AoE flee, they flee to avoid the AoE, no matter if you meant that to happen or not.

GW is designed from a PvP perspective of creating effects and forcing the enemy to make choices in response to those effects; if he makes the right choice the fight goes on, if he makes the wrong one he loses, and you win. This is miles away from a more "PvE" design perspective (such as in most MMOs) where the active party makes the choices.

The perspective taken by GW creates an illusion of even the rather daft mob AI being intelligent. Not only would I like to see that illusion remain, I'd like it to be extended. Skills such as taunt, fear etc. would certainly ruin the immersion that such a more advanced AI could bring.

[Balan Makki]

The thing about such skills is that there is no solution. . .

Huge assumption(s). ^^ And true only to the few in this thread who choose not to entertain a multitude of viable possibilitities.

What are these possibilities? Try on a solution yourself, how would you make it work if you "had to" as a game designer. If you were getting paid to make it work. You are the best candidate in this thread. Give it a shot. I'm betting you'll come up with dozens of possible, very viable solutions.

Stay positive and virtually anything is possible.

I'll have some time over the weekend to waist, I'll concoct a few possible solutions. I think it is very possible, and with Arena Net's track record, they're likely best suited to implement such features without breaking the game. . . not forum trolls like me self.

[raspberry jam]

Sure thing, I'll PM you my bank account number, start paying... :wink:

But no, it's a fact, certain mechanics are just there, and then you have a power scale to play around with, determining if that mechanic is preferred to be used or not. The worse a certain set of mechanics is, the more it's about that power scale and less about players' ability and desire to make it work. Crowd control ranks quite low seen that way, if you make it powerful you have to either design your game around it or it will be overpowered, as I already described. Now if you don't want to make that choice you'll have to make such skills very weak, but in that case, no one will use them.

What I would do though is what ANet already did: Introduce indirect crowd control. Make the AI respond to players' actions in a semi-predictable, but logical, manner.

Example: A warrior equipped with a vampiric weapon, using Flail and Grasping Earth, holds aggro quite well. This is because he exploits the AI targeting mechanics: Apart from being attracted to low health and low armor, they also prefer targets that have health degen as well as targets that move slow compared to themselves. So basically, by his behaviour, he is "using Taunt" without actually clicking a Taunt button.

The same thing goes for an elementalist who casts Fire Storm on a warrior enemy that reached the backline is exploiting the AoE flee part of the AI to create a fear effect.

The thing about all of this is that you get a natural context. Sure, a fear spell might not always be immersion-breaking (there are already two fear spells that I can think of in the current GW; they don't cause enemies to run around like headless chickens though), but taunt sure is (so this creature of supposedly godlike intelligence starts casting fireballs at only me because I called his mother ugly?), but that's not really the point. The interesting thing about GW in this respect is that you don't have simple buttons to make enemies do stuff that is obviously a bad option; instead you create situations where the enemy's best option is to do what you want him to do.

Stealth ranks even lower, I'm afraid: No matter how you implement it, it gets silly. Shadow Form is probably the best implementation you can get (you can't be harmed, so there is no point in attacking you or casting spells on you: thus, you are not there, as far as targeting purposes go) but obviously that skill has been ruthlessly abused.
(well, ok. Admittedly, Chains of Enslavement is a stealth effect of some sorts, and it works rather excellently. But it's really only there to let you carry out a single quest in an otherwise hostile area, and not at all what usually is meant when we talk about stealth.)

You'd think that mind control (true mind control, where you take over an individual enemy and directly control his actions, as opposed to crowd control or charm) can be made to work, until you realize that "ok guys, I'll mind control their healer, spike down everything on my command".
There are already similar skills implemented in GW though, but they still force a choice on the enemy (e.g. Diversion).

Charm, finally, is either weak and impossible to discern from crowd control (e.g. GW Amity/Pacifism) or game breaking (e.g. D&D Charm) in every game I have seen it. It seems hopeless to try to fix it.

I could be wrong though. You said you might come up with some solutions, I'm eager to see them of course.

[Simply Kedde]

Yes you can use tanks effectively. Of course you can for very specific places and tasks. Just not good for general play as it only slows you down. And what I meant was thatyou don't need a skill like taunt to actually tank which is great because it forces people to think creatively in how they'll deal with the mobs instead of just using a single skill to draw all the monsters to one character.
The kind of tanking we have in gw is a much better one than what's usually seen in any other MMO as it does actually require you to at least be a little experienced in how the AI acts as opposed to just press one button that makes the whole team safe from any harm.

[Balan Makki]

Yes you can use tanks effectively. Of course you can for very specific places and tasks. Just not good for general play as it only slows you down. And what I meant was that you don't need a skill like taunt to actually tank which is great because it forces people to think creatively in how they'll deal with the mobs instead of just using a single skill to draw all the monsters to one character.

The kind of tanking we have in gw is a much better one than what's usually seen in any other MMO as it does actually require you to at least be a little experienced in how the AI acts as opposed to just press one button that makes the whole team safe from any harm.

I agree, the tanking mechanics are far more interesting in GW than in other "Taunt" styled games. Not only can you fill your skill bar and equipment slots with aggro gaining stuff, as described above, you can simply body-block--the best tanking feature ever created in an MMO in my opinion. A couple of good Warriors, spec'd however they want, can tank an entire instance, but it is very slow going to set up properly. Other options "None Shall Pass" helps for those who try to sneak by, "Crippling Slash" and "Hamstring", "You are Weaklings" as well. GW requires a player skilled in build and tactics. Taunts in any other game requires a very limited knowledge of the game.

Does this mean a taunt skill would be absolutely wrong for GW? If a taunt was added to simplify the build/skill requirement as in other games, then yes, it would be completely wrong. But a taunt done in other ways? It can be said they already exist. You just have to be clever to figure out the arcane knowledge of the games mechanics. Most games spell it out plainly to new players by placing these skills in a Protections, Defender, etc attribute line. Tactics is a bit different. If I wanted to protect my party in GW I would not even think twice, a Warrior would be pointless, with what the Paragon has to offer, and how much damage a Paragon can negate. Paragon is one of my favorite classes, because it fill this roll so well. It is the true paladin class, superior to paladins in many comparable MMOs. Is the warrior the true tank class? I don't see it. I have a much easier time tanking and aggro getting with a Dervish or Axe wielding "Fiery Defender" Paragon, with GW's fast paced action, the poor warrior is always on the sideline, his superior armor hardly scratched.

I do see a place for "limited use" taunts, whether they are a damage reflect, a damage redirect, damage absorbs, found in Warrior Tactics Attribute line, that gives the warrior credit for angering the mob he is focusing his attacks on. "Save Yourself" is the only true taunt in GW. It is very effective due to underlying (arcane) mechanics. Just make "Watch Yourself!" and a few other skills similar. And let the player (tanks) know this, in the skill descriptions, that these skills tend to redirect aggro. Sub-classify it as taunt if you must, you'd likely have new players making fewer requests for a taunt skill. Let them know that specing high in Tactics Attribute line angers mob. . . Allowing a tank to grab the aggro of 3 out of 8 monsters in any one encounter does not seem game breaking to me.

Many, many RPGers play tanks because they want to be part of the group. Part of a real live party, a party that actually finds value in the need for a tank. I hate the holy trinity as much as the next GW player, but I also see the RPG and social value in wanting to be a tank. I would hate to see GW2 become another "WoW wannabe" mmo, and warriors keyholed into a solely tank role. However, Arena Net is fighting the current with all of their innovations and unique take on the genre. Labeling something as a taunt (that helps a bit with aggro) might also help the transition for new players when GW2 hits the shelves.

edit: Unique Taunt skills that use more than (or work around/ or without) the aggro "hate list", would be very viable as PvP skills as well.

[Simply Kedde]

My point is still that even though I can't say I see much skill needed in tanking in gw, it still does require skill to some point which is only good because you can't just press those skill buttons to keep your funtion when doing it wrong. It forces a bad player to evolve and eventually get better because otherwise he'll fail.

Some of us strife for it really showing when someone is good at the game and do not want skills, or whatever they're called in a game which can have someone you're far superior to, be able to match you just because they used this and this skill. I/We want it to not be so simple your mother who never touched the game could do it with the same succes.

Why is tanking required in so many games? Say what, the mobs are pretty large and pretty powerful, also powercreep as we know them. As a fragile caster you'll be toast without protection which is easiest done by letting some tough guy draw all the attention. This is where AI limitation comes in. With the current AI the mobs you encounter are just not intelligent enough to make it challenging without them being a lot more powerful than the players themselves. IF Anet can find a way to work around bad and dumb AI they can theoretically kill any need and possibly viability for tanks and instead require smart thinking and skillful play.

I don't get why you're even mentioning social parts in this argument. So people wanna feel like they're appreciated as a tank? They don't feel appreciated when doing damage and killing thins then?

[raspberry jam]

I don't get why you're even mentioning social parts in this argument. So people wanna feel like they're appreciated as a tank? They don't feel appreciated when doing damage and killing thins then?He is referring to the feeling that you get as main tank in WoW when you lead a 40 man raid. The tank and what happens around him is definitely the center of attention for all those people, and he's calling all the shots etc.

[Simply Kedde]

What I'm saying is that you would be getting the same attention doing something else. At least in smaller teams which is what gw will be anyways. Being the main tank would just be like being the tactics caller for a team of 8. If you need that attention to keep playing a game then you're expecting a little too much.

[hazygin]

I want to see a spell based nuke with a exponential growth in damage which ticks every second for X seconds.

calling it 'nub slavuuu'

idea source (just google): 'dragon slave' and 'exponential growth'

[Ne Igraj Se Sa Mnom]

I just hope that in gw2 wont be super-uber skills that would ruin the game (aka Ursan Blessing, permed shadow form).

I cant wait for gw 2 and i think whatever they done to game I think it will be fine.

[DarkWasp]

I'd like to see "Bound M1 Garand".


...


...


What?

[raspberry jam]

Balan I read your ideas. I still feel that there should be no mind-affecting abilities on tanks; if they want to grab aggro, they have to work for it.


Is the warrior the true tank class? I don't see it. I have a much easier time tanking and aggro getting with a Dervish or Axe wielding "Fiery Defender" Paragon, with GW's fast paced action, the poor warrior is always on the sideline, his superior armor hardly scratched.Warriors are not the true tank class, they are the true damage class, currently having a 130+ DPS in PvE, and it would be a pity to waste that. They are heavily armored not to be able to round up an entire enemy group, but because wading into the enemy backline while swinging a heavy weapon will attract more attention than hanging back - or at least it should.


Labeling something as a taunt (that helps a bit with aggro) might also help the transition for new players when GW2 hits the shelves.No, it would probably make those new players think that "ah, I can play this game just like I did WoW" and then they would make no transition at all.


Unique Taunt skills that use more than (or work around/ or without) the aggro "hate list", would be very viable as PvP skills as well.The Warhammer: Age of Reckoning Taunt skill works as follows:
You enrage your opponent, interrupting any currently building abilities and forcing monsters to attack you. While taunted your opponent will take 30% more damage from your attacks. This effect will fade after 15 seconds or after your opponent has hit you 3 times.This works as a PvP taunt, making it a good idea to hit the person who used it, leaving it up to the targeted player to decide what to do. As such it would seem like a good idea to have it in the game. However, the problem here is that it has no balancing factor - there is no skill involved in its use. It's always better to use this skill than to not use it.
I very much prefer the GW version of PvP taunt. A skill that does the same thing as above - increasing the damage on the target as well as making it a good idea to attack the skill user. The difference is that the GW version takes both skill and teamwork to use, and is thus of a type that I'd much rather see in GW2:
For 8 seconds, you attack 33% faster but take double damage.:wink:

[Balan Makki]

For PvE anything is possible. These are just PvE skills (adjust for PvP), with a hypothetical that GW2 will be very similar to GW1. Chances are it will not be. We know so little about how GW2 is going to work that this debate is likely an exercise in futility anyway. (just tweak the values to suit yourself.)

Reaper’s Wail
Soul Reaping Hex - Causes 1…5 adjacent foes to flee for 1…5 secs. Enemies have a 75% chance to block incoming attacks while fleeing and 50% chance to miss/fail with attack skills and spells.

Divine Awe
Divine Favor. Hex - Causes 1…5 adjacent foes to fall prostrate for 1…5 secs. Praying enemies have +5 health and +2 energy regen.

You Think You Can Dance? (Mosher Pit)
Fast Casting. Hex - Causes 1…5 nearby foes to begin dancing for 1. . . 5 secs. Dancing foes cannot be target of a spell while dancing and have +50 armor.

Befriend.
Inspiration. Hex - Befriend one foe, that foe will fight for you as long as you have energy. You recieve 50%. . . 25% incoming damage to friend, and suffer 100%. . . 50% energy cost from friends skills and spells.

Infiltrate
Shadow arts. Enchantment – You stealth for 3…. 6 seconds. If you are not moving when enchantment ends you Hide; moving when Infiltrate ends breaks stealth. 50%. . . 25% chance to break stealth per sec when adjacent to foes. Attack skills/spells are disabled during stealth + 3. . . 1 second after stealth ends. (about 20 sec recharge on skill)

Scout
Wilderness. Stance – For 60 seconds you stealth moving 33% slower. All skills/spells are disabled during stealth + 5 . . . 3 secs after stealth ends. 50% . . . 25% chance to break stealth per sec when foes are nearby.

I have dozens more silly ideas. . .

Create a new combat feature of your own if you be so inclined. (Just ignore the Naysayers.) After all, this is a thread full of Huge-arse-assumptions. And GW2 will likely be a huge improvement to the current GW1 combat system and features. GW1 has a very robust and solid combat system, but there is still room for improvement. Suggestions are always prefered over complaints. When someone says it can not be done, I say it Can.



I very much prefer the GW version of PvP taunt. A skill that does the same thing as above - increasing the damage on the target as well as making it a good idea to attack the skill user. The difference is that the GW version takes both skill and teamwork to use, and is thus of a type that I'd much rather see in GW2:

Quote:For 8 seconds, you attack 33% faster but take double damage. I agree in principle, but "practice" is a very different thing, especially when 99% of Player Base does not know this causes aggro; these skills should be labeled as potential aggro getters for PvE. If they are a taunt then label them as such. Help all the new players, who are thinking GW (GW2) sucks because it does not have taunts, when, in fact, it does.

[Simply Kedde]

Part of the skill needed to actually do some sort of tanking should be figuring out how to force the AI to make you an attractive target

[raspberry jam]

Ah ok this is what you meant.


Reaper’s Wail
You Think You Can Dance? (Mosher Pit)
Befriend.These are the very things I don't want to have in the game. :sad: I really hope they won't add such things, not because they can't be done, but because playing a game like that just isn't fun. Also [[Defile Defenses] + Reaper's Wail = win by abuse. Skills should leave the choice of making a bad move (such as blocking while under Defile Defenses) up to the target.


Divine AweThis skill is silly powerful, AoE knockdown for 5 seconds with a small defense buff that can be negated by burning? :grin: This would be a skill that I could see being used.


Infiltrate
ScoutDefine "Hide". Also, while Scout sounds interesting (reconnaissance of an entire area worked great in Baldur's Gate style games, maybe with some more work this could become really cool), the question ultimately comes as to why would you want to use these skills?

All in all not bad ideas as such, just not the kind of things I want in GW, keep em coming though, sometimes a silly idea can turn out to not be silly - and those are often the really good ones.


I agree in principle, but "practice" is a very different thing, especially when 99% of Player Base does not know this causes aggro; these skills should be labeled as potential aggro getters for PvE. If they are a taunt then label them as such. Help all the new players, who are thinking GW (GW2) sucks because it does not have taunts, when, in fact, it does.I agree with Kedde here; part of skill should be to figure out how it works. Labeling something as "aggro grabber" or "taunt" might have a strongly counter-productive effect on learning.

[Simply Kedde]

Putting everything on a silver platter is just dumbing things down. Alas, it shoulnd't be needed. A thought was it's nice to see you finally posting those ideas you have instead of the war on theorycraft we've had of an argument. Still The ideas I see don't fit in "my" game.

Notice the "'s.

[Balan Makki]

Part of the skill needed to actually do some sort of tanking should be figuring out how to force the AI to make you an attractive target

Where in-game are new players told this? It is certainly not intuitively obvious. If 99% have no clue that these are taunts, unless they dig deep into Wiki speculation. Making the idea of a taunt, attention getter, more intuitive only makes sense. Obviously, just playing the game should suffice, but when using healing signet, and not understanding that the armor penalty is actually an advantage, for getting MoB attention? Most of us will miss this subtlety. I do not think it would be dumbing-down the game one bit.


Ah ok this is what you meant.

Well, these are just some quick and very dirty ideas, thrown together, only meant to suggest a direction; not so sturdy in detail. And really only apply to GW1 as I'm almost certain GW 2 will likely have evolved dramatically in its combat systems. Many current MMOs garner solid success because they have unique, robust and dynamically divergent combat systems.

Keep in mind that many such skills would likely have diminishing returns (See WoW), they (some) would likely break when foe (or you) takes damage. Stealth would likely have many, many skills that would negate/reveal it. . . etc. .., unlike knockdowns, foes may still be able to use some skills, while under effects.

“Why use such skills?” For a multitude of reasons.

[raspberry jam]

Where in-game are new players told this? It is certainly not intuitively obvious.That's the point. Also, the primary use of Grasping Earth isn't to function as an aggro magnet, it really is to slow your enemies down so they keep still while you kill them. The reasons for not calling it a taunt skill is partly to discourage the tanking type of play, which actually (for pure tanks, not for frontliners who are merely good at holding aggro) is less efficient than speccing and playing for pure damage - but even more to make holding aggro based on general behaviour, not the use of a single or a small amount of skill/s. No matter how much taunt-like skills, vampiric weapons etc. you use, the best way to hold aggro in GW is (as it should be!) actually by aggressive positioning - but that is certainly something that a new player would need to learn. Seeing "this is a taunt skill" in a skills list may just be enough that he never learns to think about his combat behaviour, instead he'll settle for rushing in and popping a taunt, because that's how every other MMO is played.
That is why it would be dumbing down the game.


Well, these are just some quick and very dirty ideas, thrown together, only meant to suggest a direction; (...) “Why use such skills?” For a multitude of reasons.I understand that, and as skill ideas as such they were a good start; I didn't mean to put you, or them, down in any way. I just saw the direction you suggested, but didn't like it; it is the same direction as every other MMO. :undecided: What I would like to see is more of what we had in GW; skills that require thought to use (Frenzy, Diversion, Reversal of Fortune etc).

[Simply Kedde]

That's the point. Also, the primary use of Grasping Earth isn't to function as an aggro magnet, it really is to slow your enemies down so they keep still while you kill them. The reasons for not calling it a taunt skill is partly to discourage the tanking type of play, which actually (for pure tanks, not for frontliners who are merely good at holding aggro) is less efficient than speccing and playing for pure damage - but even more to make holding aggro based on general behaviour, not the use of a single or a small amount of skill/s. No matter how much taunt-like skills, vampiric weapons etc. you use, the best way to hold aggro in GW is (as it should be!) actually by aggressive positioning - but that is certainly something that a new player would need to learn. Seeing "this is a taunt skill" in a skills list may just be enough that he never learns to think about his combat behaviour, instead he'll settle for rushing in and popping a taunt, because that's how every other MMO is played.
That is why it would be dumbing down the game.

QFT

Also skills that would provide stelath/invisibility could have a multitude of counters and still be very imbalanced. Another aspect of overpowered is that when you need to bring a specific counter to a type of skill, then that skill is overpowered.

[Rhinala]

Seeing "this is a taunt skill" in a skills list may just be enough that he never learns to think about his combat behavior, instead he'll settle for rushing in and popping a taunt, because that's how every other MMO is played.
That is why it would be dumbing down the game.

Is it any different from what happen now with ursans?
if someone rush pop taunt at least the aggro will be pointed to him and not to others... while today thy rush (no mater how much energy the casters have) and attack.
The AI look for the week and "important" players means casters, and attack them causing a nice wipe (try to heal or cast offensive spell with 10 energy when the attack start).
So i don't see anything wrong in a clear description. it will not dumb the game only make it more enjoyable, and more accessible to people from other games.

Sorry to tell you that in WoW people stop befor every attack mark targgets and attack as thy shuld, here its run to the red dots kill them run to the next red dots.... (fight like an ursan, the bear numbed the brain)

And another note the game have 2 types of descriptions Full and Concise.
Why not make the full description really detailed, if someone doesn't want to use it he can allways change to Concise.

[Simply Kedde]

All you're saying is that players are simply stupid as hell and really, really bad. Which is their own fault and has nothing whatsoever to do with taunt as a skill type.

Skill descriptions are already very detailed in full and as short as they can be in concise? What other information do you want? The idea behind the skill or the name of the person who came up with it?

[raspberry jam]

Is it any different from what happen now with ursans?
if someone rush pop taunt at least the aggro will be pointed to him and not to others... while today thy rush (no mater how much energy the casters have) and attack.
The AI look for the week and "important" players means casters, and attack them causing a nice wipe (try to heal or cast offensive spell with 10 energy when the attack start).
So i don't see anything wrong in a clear description. it will not dumb the game only make it more enjoyable, and more accessible to people from other games.That's kind of the point. You are forced to be good in order to protect your backline. Forced to do more difficult things than running in and using 1 skill - it should be more to it that that, and that's also why ursan was nerfed. Ursan too was basically just about running in and using 1 skill.


Sorry to tell you that in WoW people stop befor every attack mark targgets and attack as thy shuld, here its run to the red dots kill them run to the next red dots.... (fight like an ursan, the bear numbed the brain)Note the bolded parts - and note that WoW and GW are two separate games. One should be played in one way, the other in another way (though it you just rush the red dots over and over, you are not playing GW as it "should" be played either). If you like WoW, you know where to find gameplay that you like.

[Balan Makki]

... players are simply stupid as hell and really, really bad.

You're putting words in Rhinala’s mouth.

The thrust and intent of ArenaNet's flagship product in ease of access, casual friendly, skill based, easy to learn hard to master. Labeling something to help players understand a skill (or attribute line)? That is not dumbing-down anything.

I do agree that the process of discovery is oftentimes far more rewarding, regardless of descriptions. It may be as simple as Specing high in tactics, but who knows? If you hit something with high tactics it "seems" I'm auto-taunting with every attack, IAS and AoEs even better. Works for me, being I’m able to gather up what ever I want. Just like in other games where there are “Labeled” taunts. Why not tell players this? Why keep it a secret?

[Simply Kedde]

Why is it wrong that people are bad if they just rush in with no thought whatsoever? That IS bad isn't it? The situation described I answered to was that people just rushed in without thought. Now this is where the skill needs to kick in and better players would think before gaining aggro.
And to take that even further players should have to think about what skills do under different circumstances rather than see one called "taunt" and think "hey this one makes my team safe, lets bring it".

[Akirai Annuvil]

The AI look for the week and "important" players means casters, and attack them causing a nice wipe (try to heal or cast offensive spell with 10 energy when the attack start).
Done. (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gole)

Sorry to tell you that in WoW people stop befor every attack mark targgets and attack as thy shuld, here its run to the red dots kill them run to the next red dots....
In my half a year playing WoW I can't remember doing that. Ever. Most WoW PvE is retardedly easy.

Entertaining the idea that descriptions whose immediate effects entail increasing the user's aggro should be labeled as taunts, could someone please explain what GW skills would fall under the aforementioned criteria?
(As I'm fairly sure most people are going to take a long time even understanding the previous sentence, I'll answer it proactively) None, there are no Guild Wars skills which force more aggro on the user. Instead all Guild Wars skills do is force the mobs to reacquire targets*. Unless you seriously want to include the sentence: "This skill makes the mob reacquire the most vulnerable target." to every snare's description in the game, this is not a practical addition in any way or form.

*Technically they don't even do that much, but for simplicity's sake I'll say they do.

[Wethospu]

Smiters Boon

[Akirai Annuvil]

Awesome .

[Kael Valeran]

Final Shot!

Finishing Shot!

Last Shot!

One Shot one Kill!

Watever...

[spyderbite]

I think we should actually have he ability of weakening and stopping/ slowing a foe permanently, with skills like dismembering it. Because right now you cripple it for a bit and it bleeds but after 10 seconds dwayna kisses it better and it can sprint for england. Instead how about permanent wounds that ether slow down, stop the enemy or weaken its attack depending on the part hit.

Just a thought but I think it could add a whole new level to PvE and PvP even.

(You could say this is overpowered, but with increased skill time and with an element of chance - i.e 40% Chance of success)))

[Kael Valeran]

(You could say this is overpowered, but with increased skill time and with an element of chance - i.e 40% Chance of success)))

I rather toss hoops. sorry mate. can't agree with you.

[Simply Kedde]

randomness is sucky. It removes skill and makes people rely on sheer luck. Bad thing. And think about having it in pvp. cripple takes say, 20% max run speed of permanently in that match. Lolwut? do it 5 times and you can't move. Even if it wouldn't stack, then basically it'd be so overpowered everyone would have to bring it and then it would all just be all stats -20%~.

[raspberry jam]

Why not tell players this? Why keep it a secret?Um... Because telling them sets them on a certain track. It shapes the behaviour of players. It stifles innovation. Especially in a game series where (if GW2 combat is anything like GW1 combat) tanking is generally pointless and speccing for it is generally a bad idea, but in a genre where tanking is the established tactic, it might give players the entirely wrong idea of how they are supposed to play, and would actually do more harm than good.

[Simply Kedde]

Heed the words of wisdom.

[Egal]

There is no TL;DR version of this post.

I would like to see more skills in the game that allow me to do more than kill red dots. I like to play games where I also have the option of playing, say, a stealth character or a charismatic character as well as a kill-everything type. Skills of this type have no place in PvP though, and should remain exclusively PvE. Personally, I really don't like PvE exclusive skills of the type we have in GW now, and would prefer not to see them in GW2. Also, it's been pointed out often enough why such skills wouldn't be good even for PvE, if they're skills like any other that you can shove on your bar. Entire classes dedicated to this sort of playstyle would, presumably, be even worse.

So, what I think may be good alternative is to make such "skills" exclusive to specific instances and tie them to items. These items are found only in specific locations and they can't be transferred to, or used in any other game area, instance, PvP, etc.


Example 1: Your group enters an instance. You have the option of fighting your way through in the normal fashion, doing the exploring, mission or quest and getting XP for the oh-so-important levelling, plus random loot from drops. Or your party kills an enemy group guarding an armoury, enters it and puts on the armour held there (click on it.) You can now proceed in the same way as the Pogahn Passage mission. Enemy mobs are now "friendly" and some NPC's give you side-quests you can complete for XP and fixed loot. Maybe one even acts like a collector with a range of collector-style items to choose from as rewards. Rewards are given on completion of the quest/mission. If you choose to do all these side-quests you receive an amount of XP similar to what you'd have received from killing everything. Playing this way means loot acquired is fixed versus lucky dip.

If you aggro mobs half way through, for whatever reason, your disguise is ruined and all enemy mobs are aggresive in the normal way. You miss out on quest rewards which would have only been given at the end of a successfully completed 'disguise" run (to prevent doubling up of side-quest rewards and loot from killing when you aggro previously friendly mobs after having received your side-quest rewards.) If you wish to hurry through without doing any side-quests, you may; the trade-off is that you'll receive no side-quest XP or loot.


Example 2: You enter an instance solo (in the more solo-friendly GW2.) You can fight and kill stuff for XP and loot, or you can pick up an artifact that renders you invisible and allows you to move through enemy mobs unchecked. You must carry this item, and while you do you can use neither weapons nor skills. Drop it and foes see and attack you in the normal way. To pass though this area/instance you need to interact with the environment at many points. That means pulling handles and levers, and carrying stuff, like in Sorrows Furnace. That means dropping the invisibility-item and losing the effect.

It may be, that to open a particular door you need to activate a lever, which requires you to drop the artifact. The door is surrounded by a large group of foes. So, to draw them away you interact with some other object placed nearby which does something that draws the enemy mobs to it (i.e. open a valve on some machine that would cause it to blow up if left open by the enemy.) Having cunningly lured the enemy away, you can sneak back to the door, drop the artifact and safely open the door.

As with the first example, being spotted by the enemy should result in a detrimental outcome otherwise there is no risk in dropping invisibilty near enemy mobs and having to fight, when you could have done this - and are capable of doing this - anyway. Perhaps there are some extra rooms that can only be accessed by players playing this way which contain some useful, modest rewards. If you've been spotted you lose the option of accessing these rooms, as enemies lock them more securely.

Instead of playing this area as a normal fight-and-kill area, you have the option of playing it as a large (hopefully, cleverly devised) puzzle area. Whichever you choose at the time.

.................................................. ...

So, just a couple of ideas for stealth-type skills, to give an idea of the sort of thing I have in mind. I dunno, maybe you could cause fear type effects or maybe a taunt style effect in a way that doesn't stink.

These types of "skills" won't interfere with PvP. They can't be transferred to all areas of the game and, if well thought-out and well balanced, shouldn't become a required play-style when joining groups. The mechanics aren't exotic and difficult - the examples above aren't that far off what exists in the game now. They do, however, offer an alternative method of playing certain areas, which could add replayability. It may also enhance the RPG element of PvE by giving devs the opportunity to include additional narrative elements, or simply because they give players reason to think of their characters as being something other than straight-up killing-machines.

Thoughts?

[GWBD]

the jump skill form final fantasy for some classes

[Wuzzman]

There is no TL;DR version of this post.

I would like to see more skills in the game that allow me to do more than kill red dots. I like to play games where I also have the option of playing, say, a stealth character or a charismatic character as well as a kill-everything type. Skills of this type have no place in PvP though, and should remain exclusively PvE. Personally, I really don't like PvE exclusive skills of the type we have in GW now, and would prefer not to see them in GW2. Also, it's been pointed out often enough why such skills wouldn't be good even for PvE, if they're skills like any other that you can shove on your bar. Entire classes dedicated to this sort of playstyle would, presumably, be even worse.

So, what I think may be good alternative is to make such "skills" exclusive to specific instances and tie them to items. These items are found only in specific locations and they can't be transferred to, or used in any other game area, instance, PvP, etc.


Example 1: Your group enters an instance. You have the option of fighting your way through in the normal fashion, doing the exploring, mission or quest and getting XP for the oh-so-important levelling, plus random loot from drops. Or your party kills an enemy group guarding an armoury, enters it and puts on the armour held there (click on it.) You can now proceed in the same way as the Pogahn Passage mission. Enemy mobs are now "friendly" and some NPC's give you side-quests you can complete for XP and fixed loot. Maybe one even acts like a collector with a range of collector-style items to choose from as rewards. Rewards are given on completion of the quest/mission. If you choose to do all these side-quests you receive an amount of XP similar to what you'd have received from killing everything. Playing this way means loot acquired is fixed versus lucky dip.

If you aggro mobs half way through, for whatever reason, your disguise is ruined and all enemy mobs are aggresive in the normal way. You miss out on quest rewards which would have only been given at the end of a successfully completed 'disguise" run (to prevent doubling up of side-quest rewards and loot from killing when you aggro previously friendly mobs after having received your side-quest rewards.) If you wish to hurry through without doing any side-quests, you may; the trade-off is that you'll receive no side-quest XP or loot.


Example 2: You enter an instance solo (in the more solo-friendly GW2.) You can fight and kill stuff for XP and loot, or you can pick up an artifact that renders you invisible and allows you to move through enemy mobs unchecked. You must carry this item, and while you do you can use neither weapons nor skills. Drop it and foes see and attack you in the normal way. To pass though this area/instance you need to interact with the environment at many points. That means pulling handles and levers, and carrying stuff, like in Sorrows Furnace. That means dropping the invisibility-item and losing the effect.

It may be, that to open a particular door you need to activate a lever, which requires you to drop the artifact. The door is surrounded by a large group of foes. So, to draw them away you interact with some other object placed nearby which does something that draws the enemy mobs to it (i.e. open a valve on some machine that would cause it to blow up if left open by the enemy.) Having cunningly lured the enemy away, you can sneak back to the door, drop the artifact and safely open the door.

As with the first example, being spotted by the enemy should result in a detrimental outcome otherwise there is no risk in dropping invisibilty near enemy mobs and having to fight, when you could have done this - and are capable of doing this - anyway. Perhaps there are some extra rooms that can only be accessed by players playing this way which contain some useful, modest rewards. If you've been spotted you lose the option of accessing these rooms, as enemies lock them more securely.

Instead of playing this area as a normal fight-and-kill area, you have the option of playing it as a large (hopefully, cleverly devised) puzzle area. Whichever you choose at the time.

.................................................. ...

So, just a couple of ideas for stealth-type skills, to give an idea of the sort of thing I have in mind. I dunno, maybe you could cause fear type effects or maybe a taunt style effect in a way that doesn't stink.

These types of "skills" won't interfere with PvP. They can't be transferred to all areas of the game and, if well thought-out and well balanced, shouldn't become a required play-style when joining groups. The mechanics aren't exotic and difficult - the examples above aren't that far off what exists in the game now. They do, however, offer an alternative method of playing certain areas, which could add replayability. It may also enhance the RPG element of PvE by giving devs the opportunity to include additional narrative elements, or simply because they give players reason to think of their characters as being something other than straight-up killing-machines.

Thoughts?

Use Escape.

[raspberry jam]

Thoughts?Yes.

Your example 1 is great, and being able to steal enemy armor and use it to sneak in under cover and then being forced to not blow that cover or else all hell will break loose, is something that could be a really fun game mechanic and could, if done right, be a part of what brings immersion and depth to the game.

Example 2 is gimmicky and horrid. I like that the enemies lock things more securely and so on if you are detected, but invisibility item? Really? I'd like to see skills - or rather effects - that are not skills too, but that's because I don't want them to be "click here to become invisible", but instead you actually have to sneak, stay in shadows, walk past when the enemy looks away, and so on.

[Egal]

Example 2 is gimmicky and horrid. I like that the enemies lock things more securely and so on if you are detected, but invisibility item? Really? I'd like to see skills - or rather effects - that are not skills too, but that's because I don't want them to be "click here to become invisible", but instead you actually have to sneak, stay in shadows, walk past when the enemy looks away, and so on.

I'd weep for joy if stealthy sneaking of this type could be successfully implemented. I absolutely love the stealth play-style and I admit that the invisibility item is a poor substitute for that.

I could come up with other examples, and some might be good and some will be complete garbage. Really, I'm more concerned with how to introduce different play-styles into the game without interfering with PvP, without requiring some arcane mechanic useful for some parts of the game but not others, and not introducing a problem of the Ursan Blessing variety. I think tying skill-like effects to items will give players options for specific areas, but not harm the game as a whole, because these "skills" can be safely contained .

[raspberry jam]

I could come up with other examples, and some might be good and some will be complete garbage.Not coming up with anything leads to nothing. Coming up with both good and bad stuff, and keeping the good, is how empires are built! :wink:


Really, I'm more concerned with how to introduce different play-styles into the game without interfering with PvP, without requiring some arcane mechanic useful for some parts of the game but not others, and not introducing a problem of the Ursan Blessing variety. I think tying skill-like effects to items will give players options for specific areas, but not harm the game as a whole, because these "skills" can be safely contained .Yeah, true. And of course, there are two ways to do that - one way is hard and risky and is basically about getting into it and implementing something like your first example, or as discussed previously in the thread, affecting aggro indirectly like how it is in GW1. The other is safer and easier and is basically your second example, making a small scripted thing that can be used in a certain specific way, basically giving players a pre-made gimmick. The problem with that is that it's only fun the first time, while if you create an actual sneaking (or whatever) mechanic it's fun all the time because it's different all the time, and feels more real. But I admit of course, example 2 is better than another Ursan Failure.

[Aesiya]

Earth Magic skill: Seismic Stomp: Knockdown effect

Trap skill: Buried Explosive: Splash damage

[Simply Kedde]

Is there any difference in your definition of AoE and splash damage? For me those are exactly the same.

[Aesiya]

No, that was probably a delirious goof on my part. *edits*

[GADefence]

A not-useless-to-primairy-warriors-wildblow.

Appart from that not anything much I'd like to change about GW. . . Maybe add some more cross classing skills?

[sorudo]

life transfer and aftershock, but aftershock has to do knockdown in GW2 to make the effect look right :P

[I like the bunnys]

i would like too see the minion master skills.but i think there should be a skill that makes a lvl 30 minion.

[dovedeo]

Ok, I thought it said things not skills. But a skill I would like to see is a spear/sword skill when your sharacter rush forward with like 300% speed and hits a foe=)

[ipwnbtchz]

warrior elite skill
"Ur G.A.Y!"
Elite Shout. All nearby foes within reach
lose all armor,energy,adrenaline and move 50% slower
for (60...120 seconds).[Attr:tactics]

[Vlekje Mai]

I actually agree with the people saying that stealth/invisibility skills would not be a good idea, largely because they would be to simple to just click and be done. However, I think that with a few adjustments the aggro type system we currently have it could serve to fill that niche.
For example possibly making the circle not so much a circle that is even on all sides of the mobs. Couldn't the aggro bubble be smaller on the back of the monster thus making it more possible to sneak past them if they are not facing you. Or making it so that if you stand behind a wall that monsters on the other side of the wall can't see you. This would of course go both ways and allow monster to sneak up behind you and out from behind walls as well. Something else that could be interesting is to have it set up so that if you are in a large open area and do something that would cause a lot of noise, such as start a fight, that maybe the surrounding monsters aggro bubbles might get a little bigger for a time because they heard the fight and are more alert thus easier to aggro. I think that altering aggro to something like that would allow for the possibility of sneaking around and would also require more usage of tactics and strategy in fighting monsters.

[Simply Kedde]

You know if any team had a warrior in it they'd probably be heard a long time before they were spotted due to the simple fact that moving in metal plate or whatever heavy armor a warrior is wearing makes a lot of noise.
And what about smell?
Having aggro circles the way you're proposing could be fine, but I find the rest redundant.

[PwnyRide]

So, i remember the devs mentioning interaction with the environment? As well as mentioning skills having multiple uses. Cbf digging it up, so dont ask for a source.

Mesmer ~ Wheres You Head At (reference to lyrics, see discription)

Hex spell. Illusion.

Place an illusionary wall (with x health) around target foe. This wall recieves x amount of health degeneration for each foe in the area of hexed foe. Hexed for cannot move. Hexed foe cannot attack. Allies of hexed foe cannot cast enchantments on hexed foe.

(it would be important to note that the foe is still able to cast spells. Allies are still able to support the foe from outside the 'wall', just with no enchanting spells. Target can still cast enchantments on its-self.

Where does the environment come in? 'Wheres Your Head At' acts not only as an imobilising snare (which has not yet been seen in Guild Wars), but as an actual wall. Need a bodyblock? Why not take the Mesmer's signature concept and let the enemy do it for you?

Wall surrounding target foe spans 1/4 of the current aggro radar.


Elementalist~ Kinetic Charge

Hex spell. Earth Magic


For x seconds, whenever target foe activates an attack skill, that foe recieves cracked armor.

Charges target object with a Kinetic Charge. When this hex ends, hexed object explodes, damaging nearby units* for x damage.

*Units meaning objects, foes and alies alike, as well as anything else that may be damaged.



[To be honest, i find the first spell ridiculous, so i just let my mind run with it. Mesmers need some lovin. Although NOT to the point of skills like VoR]

[Simply Kedde]

[To be honest, i find the first spell ridiculous, so i just let my mind run with it. Mesmers need some lovin. Although NOT to the point of skills like VoR]

Good ^^

I find this to be a bit what I imagine as well as skills interacting with your current move as in jumping while activating an attack skill?
It'll have a slightly different effect.

Oh and I like your avy.

[raspberry jam]

an imobilising snare (which has not yet been seen in Guild Wars)[Gale] :tongue: Short term but 100% speed reduction snare

I like your Kinetic Charge idea, but I don't quite get it, can you cast on enemies and objects (with different results) or what?

[Simply Kedde]

Cast it on an ally and it gives his attacks the ability to apply crakced armor (Like Witherring Aura).
But cast it on an enemy and it acts like a hex that in this example reminds a bit of Rising Bile that also damages allies when it ends.

[PwnyRide]

[Gale] :tongue: Short term but 100% speed reduction snare

I like your Kinetic Charge idea, but I don't quite get it, can you cast on enemies and objects (with different results) or what?

Precisely. The idea of skills having multiple uses depending on the situation promotes more of a gung-ho playstyle, with the whole 'use what you have available, and more' gameplay.

It just breaks up the somewhat monotonous feeling that makes Build Wars so linear.

But to put it plain an simple ,yes. The spell can be used on enemies and inatimate objects for various effects.

[raspberry jam]

In that case, awesome :grin:

[Sobric]

Casting spells on the environment is a great idea. It opens up so many more on-the-fly options for a party if their skills actually interact with the environment.

[hazygin]

dice of fate

glyph (or hard to counter skill type) for X(1) seconds this skill is replaced by a random skill(1) of the same attribute as the last used skill(2) (this effect lasts X(2) number of skill(1) use)

cantrip 1
target foe cast speed reduced by X% for X seconds your next spell casts X% faster

cantrip 2
both you and target foe's next spell effect is delayed by 3 seconds,

cantrip 4
for 1 seconds healing and damage effects are reversed on target

cantrip 5
increase energy cost and spell effect by X%

cantrip 6
token - for X seconds this spell replaces the last cast spell with 30% spell effect triggering upon next cast

===edit===

Singularity {Epic spell}

Create a singularity in target location.

For X seconds

any damage (or spell effect depending on operation) taken by foes (and allies?) in the area are transferred to foes in nearby range (if target exists)
any damage taken by foes in the nearby range are transferred to foes in adjacent range (if target exists)
any effect taken by foes in adjacent range ...?????

N.B: due to the utterly devastating effect this spell can have one may want to introduce a delay type measure, e.g 5 second exponential growth function from from x% spell effect to 100%

[Sludge]

Dual Wield sure, if they can balance it, which they probably can't.

attack faster, do less dps:grin:

[Nemeon Lion]

attack faster, do less dps:grin:


Do you even understand what DPS means?

Attacking faster increases your DPS. If it doesn't, dual wielding is useless compared to other weapons, unless it has better support capabilities (Swordsmanship as an example).

However, that also raises the question, if you're gonna do that, you're better with a whole new atribute built around it.

[Sludge]

Do you even understand what DPS means?

Attacking faster increases your DPS. If it doesn't, dual wielding is useless compared to other weapons, unless it has better support capabilities (Swordsmanship as an example).

However, that also raises the question, if you're gonna do that, you're better with a whole new atribute built around it.

i meant less damage per hit
my bad