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Wethospu
17-08-2008, 19:03
In other words, two skills in one.
Before explaining more we will look at the problem which this would fix.

There are many skills in Guild Wars which aren't very flexible. I will use "Can't Touch This!" as an example.

"Can't Touch This!"
For 20 seconds, the next 1...4 touch skills used against you fail.

This skill would be excellent against touchers but what about when opponents have no touch skills? Well, it sucks.
Of course this skill could be buffed. But buffing skills like this would just make it rock-paper-scissors skill. Against one team it makes you win, against other team it still sucks.


So the answer to this problem would be dual skills.
Example:
"Can't Touch This!":
For 20 seconds, the next 1...4 touch skills used against you fail.
For 20 seconds, you take 1...4 less damage from melee attacks.

Then you could swap between skill descriptions.
Now this skill wouldn't be so useless against some teams so it didn't need to be buffed crazily to be good.


Well, this game mechanic is pretty cool even without solving any problems.
There are three ways to implement it:

1. Swapping skills changes also skills on the play.
Example: You use "Can't Touch This!" as anti-touch. You swap it and it becomes anti-melee.

2. Swapped skills stack.
Example: You use "Can't Touch This!" (with Echo). You swap and use it again. You get both things.

3. Swapped skill don't stack.


I find option 1 pretty cool. It would reward swapping skills in right place.

powercozmic
17-08-2008, 19:12
Good idea, but can make things too complex. However they can halve the total number of skills and make the existing ones, dual skills.

Wethospu
17-08-2008, 19:13
I'm not saying that every skill needed to be like this.

Simply Kedde
17-08-2008, 19:21
That sounds a bit like what we've heard about gw2 skills. Not completely the same, but skills having different uses under different circumstances.

Wethospu
17-08-2008, 19:24
Now it would be your decision, not environment.
You aren't forced to do anything, you got free will.

Tro
17-08-2008, 20:21
Developers already said they are doing that in GW2

Simply Kedde
17-08-2008, 20:38
Err.. Source or lolwut.

powercozmic
17-08-2008, 22:24
Err.. Source or lolwut.

It's no biggie. Some skills even in GW1 have more than one function. It shouldn't be hard to improve in that area.

I do like this idea a lot can reduce the insane amount of rubbish skills(illusion of haste) simply by providing a different function which can be useful in another situation.

Apple Tox
18-08-2008, 00:16
In GW 2 skills will behave differently in every scenario. So basically there will be dual, triple and even quadruple skills.

So whats the point of this thread again?

~Apple

sorudo
18-08-2008, 11:35
skills are not dual, they just act the way you move, and i can understand weth's point.
some skills just need to have more freedom then it's basic function, if a skill is just for one particular build, then it's close to useless.
like the sample he said, a toucher has a bad day with that, but that's it.
but if you add a function next to it to make it useful for general use, then you don't buff the skill but just make the skill more useful.

i do think tho, that when you have the first function, it should not take function 1 with function all together.
so let's say you have an assassin toucher, he can't touch because of that spell,but it's melee dmg is still as strong as ever.
let's just say that the second function is a safeguard, that can only be used when function 1 doesn't work.

raspberry jam
18-08-2008, 12:30
rubbish skills(illusion of haste)<-- used to use Illusion of Haste to run from Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge. On my mesmer. :grin:

Wethospu
18-08-2008, 12:35
In GW 2 skills will behave differently in every scenario. So basically there will be dual, triple and even quadruple skills.

So whats the point of this thread again?

~Apple

To make us better game. I like complex things because they increase required skill.

Now, no one knows how skills will work in GW 2. Yes, they might have told how they will work differently on different scenarios. That sounds good for PvE but we have seen split of skills for PvE and PvP.
For PvP, I don't see how they could make it. How fair would it be if one GvG Hall boosted fire spells?

Simply Kedde
18-08-2008, 12:37
You're confusing Wethospu and Tro's examples. I just wanna have the page where a developer wrote that skills will be like Wethospu proposed or call BS on it.

Of course most of the most in gw can do more than one thing, that's just not the same as them having one function until you click them and then having another seperate function.

Lamuness
18-08-2008, 18:34
Sounds like :

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8592/roughtumbleoi1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I don't mind it, but there's too much complexity in that I think. How are you going to decide which version of its skill it uses?

Wethospu
18-08-2008, 19:07
Probably similar way like with using skills. Push button.

Akirai Annuvil
18-08-2008, 20:46
"Can't Touch This!"
For 20 seconds, the next 1...4 touch skills used against you fail.

This skill would be excellent against touchers but what about when opponents have no touch skills? Well, it sucks.
Actually it also sucks because it's self target instead of target ally.
The downside to this system is that it essentially doubles the amount of skills on your skillbar - it does not necesarrily double the amount of skill needed (if you're running the GW2 flare and the double skill is the GW2 stone daggers, it still won't take more skill to run the bar properly).

Personally I'd like to see skills change depending on their targets/casters actions.
My suggestion for the UB changes were actually based on that principle.

Wethospu
19-08-2008, 05:09
Well, no one is asking to make poor double skills. And still not every skills are needed to be like this. It's just a way to buff skills without making them broken.

Do you mean that if you spell X on casting target spell gets interrupted? But if you use spell X on idle target it burns Energy? Or if you use spell X on Warrior it makes him Blinded?

Simply Kedde
19-08-2008, 07:41
I just think it needs more skills that have useful secondary uses that are constant as having a skill that can blind physicals, E-denial casters and interrupt **** all in one, that'd be no so good. Of course it was just an example I know :P