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lieutenant zho
28-08-2008, 10:40
As an Assassin, i enjoy playin GvG as it feels like i am breaking the standards which most teams conform to. It also seams that if I add a monk hero who follows me (this seems to happen alot since we are still building or GvG team) it seems like we are the last pair to die. This is why my role is to solo all the other teams NPC's and prepare for the GL rush. The only problem is, my WotA build seems boring and doesnt kill quik enough. An assassin should only have to go through his/her chain once but i have to do it twice. Also, with 12 sec recharge of some of my skills, i spend around 3 to 4 secs auto attacking... and that sucks lemons. I know that the Siphon Speed or a build like that was nerfed or something but I was wondering if you could post biuld which as assassin could use in GvG as my team seem to love me ^^

Celeborn the Old
30-08-2008, 06:38
Hmm faster recharging chain? Try Shattering Assault with GFS and WS. With Shadowsteps nerfed just drop any you have and use Dash. Also might want to consider Shock/Disrupting Dagger and an Air conjure and Storm Djinn's Haste in place of Dash.

My concept is to cram as much utility on the bar as possible, almost to the level of a Warrior. Energy might get tight with SA so add in that Critical Eye skill. As for conditions might want Assassin's Remedy although FF will probably take care of that. You might also want to take some sort of a block but the block enchants might get stripped. Also, I don't think Scorpion Wire has the aftercast after the SS so might want to look into using that and Shock for 4 second KD. Tweak the bar and make it your own based on your playstyle.

Ryuujinx
30-08-2008, 17:55
It also seams that if I add a monk hero who follows me


Umm... and this is for GvG?

Celeborn the Old
31-08-2008, 16:18
On second thought, scratch Scorpion Wire. If you cast it on a monk they'll retreat pulling you far back behind enemy lines.

And on the monk-it hasn't been unusual in the recent past for Sinsplit to be accompanied by monks. Traditionally in the Factions Era it was 1-2 gankers but now it isn't unusual for a monk to assist. However, having a real monk is better and with VoD changed bringing along a full team of players for Zerging is even better.

Dogbert
19-02-2009, 21:04
Palm strike still works. Add some smites and hexes and you are good to go.

shardfenix
21-02-2009, 07:23
As an Assassin, i enjoy playin GvG as it feels like i am breaking the standards which most teams conform to. It also seams that if I add a monk hero who follows me (this seems to happen alot since we are still building or GvG team) it seems like we are the last pair to die. This is why my role is to solo all the other teams NPC's and prepare for the GL rush. The only problem is, my WotA build seems boring and doesnt kill quik enough. An assassin should only have to go through his/her chain once but i have to do it twice. Also, with 12 sec recharge of some of my skills, i spend around 3 to 4 secs auto attacking... and that sucks lemons. I know that the Siphon Speed or a build like that was nerfed or something but I was wondering if you could post biuld which as assassin could use in GvG as my team seem to love me ^^
If killing once every 12 seconds is too slow for you, stop playing this game. Assassins are overpowered if any of their spikes recharge in less than 20 seconds, which is the case currently. Try winning by being good instead of 1234567 spamming.

Siriusbg
11-03-2009, 08:46
If killing once every 12 seconds is too slow for you, stop playing this game. Assassins are overpowered if any of their spikes recharge in less than 20 seconds, which is the case currently. Try winning by being good instead of 1234567 spamming.

cause he is probaly playing in top 100 with a hero monk following him, he is asking for an advice, if you have nothing good to say, then shut up or cut your self babe.

Reverend Dr
11-03-2009, 09:44
His point is that killing once every 12 seconds only happens in terribly one sided matches. If someone wants to get a kill every 12 seconds, then GvG is not the game for them.

J Davis
17-03-2009, 10:09
His point is that killing once every 12 seconds only happens in terribly one sided matches. If someone wants to get a kill every 12 seconds, then GvG is not the game for them.

More like the OPPORTUNITY to get a kill. But I'm just nit-picking.

Kael Valeran
01-05-2009, 14:11
for pure npc killing, consider full degen builds. You can do this solo.

For starters, u can consider, [seeping wound][iron palm][falling spider][twisting fangs] 4 skills.

This move takes down any npc of any armor without heals, meanwhile allowing you to be out of the area of damage after your spike. u can ss back to your intended position, i.e flag running, ss to monk, or wait out for next spike

Iron palm is not an attack and will continue to work well with shadow stepping. Timing is important, i often see players kiting while KDed, the falling spider won't make it in time. Two methods to counter this, 1) bring black spider strike. Still kills npcs. 2) bring a snare, the snare doesn't need to be an assassin skill, eg. water magic.

Crippling dagger works if you don't mind the half range. Siphon speed is good to support the chain too. Winters embrace is relatively ok.... if you take shadow step.

With a snare, you'll be playing a supportive role with your elite while in a team of 8. With proper shutdown, you can take down a monk easily during splits, therefore your best friend is not another monk, but a shutdown mesmer.

Thus the last 4 skills should be: 1) snare 2)shadow stepping/IMS 3)self heal 4)skill of choice, or res sig.

Takes a little time to get used to. I tried it with shadow walk (very good in certain conditions where dash is needed), aod, recall(love this), replace elite with hidden caltrops(still kills warrior npc without problem, dark prison, death's charge(bring this if you don't want to take a self heal).

Footmen are pushovers. Also, don't worry about troll unguent. By the time the archer activates it, he should be dead. knights can be pulled and killed if the opposing team is unattentive. Bodyguards can be killed too.

I don't support solo killing bodyguards alone... its risky but doable. Return allows this to be done safely though. =)

Finally, it is very easy to kill a guild lord with the help of another high dps ally(not degen), but its not like the enemy won't send a monk to help. 1 monk can't save a guild lord's ***. a warrior plus a shutdown mesmer will be your best allies. 5:1:2 split is best, with yourself being in the group of 1. The group of two should have a mesmer and a warrior. A monk from the group of 5 can join in if you get desperate.

To summarise, this builds aims at
1) solo npcs
2) provide snare and degen support
3) split tactics
4) help in flag running when necessary(dash+self heal+shadow walk)
or
4) solo guild lord (return)

This build will start to show weaknesses when you reach high level gvg where teams are more attentive to their npcs. Play like a sin, find opportunities...

Simply Kedde
01-05-2009, 16:42
pure npc killing

No.


consider full degen builds

No.


kiting while KDed

Not possible sir.


Crippling dagger works if you don't mind the half range. Siphon speed is good to support the chain too. Winters embrace

None of these are very good at all.


Footmen are pushovers. Also, don't worry about troll unguent. By the time the archer activates it, he should be dead. knights can be pulled and killed if the opposing team is unattentive. Bodyguards can be killed too.

This applies to any split template, but the thing is, any other split template will also be useful at doing other things.

You need to stop thinking solo this, solo that, solo everything.

If you're splitting, by definition, your team is either built for it, or it's forced.

If the first is true, you're not going to split alone, in which case your build is pretty much useless.
It won't kill defenders, has no party support excet bad snares that are easily cleared by either FF or PnH nowadays.
It's also extremely bad for your team when forced into 7v7 or 8v8 fights.

If the second scenario is true, you won't have an assasin anyways, since they're bad at stand fights and will need to be in a teambuild made for splitting.

The only really half-viable assasin template at the moment is WC:

[wastrel's collapse][falling spider][horns of the ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][shock][conjure lightning][Dash]

This bar is an actual threat to defenders and npc's being defended as well as for skirmishes and short duration 8v8 play during collapses.

Also, why res a thread that has clearly concluded everything there is to conclude?

Kael Valeran
01-05-2009, 19:11
ok, to your comments

yes, people can kite a KD chain, It takes a second long for iron palm to strike. With an ims and constant kiting, they will avoid falling spider. I tried this a few times already, this is made worse on slopes.

OP mentioned his role of solo and prep for GL rush, thats the build i'm suggesting

This build might fail against defenders, but consider the time to kill an npc, 6-8 seconds. When they arrive, recall will put your main team, which is the team of 5 and 2, considering u have a split in this order.

5:2:1
or
4:3:1

A monk will be migrating between both teams. Your recall is very important to be placed with this migrating monk. This is so that, when you remove recall, you'll be in the vincinity of the team that requires support the most.

This build has rather good synergy for soloing and i must agree many builds out there are better when forced into an 8:8 scenario. But honestly, 8v8 is very prone to spike. Its meant to take down non-defenders. Iron palm as a KD and interrupt is pretty useful.

My suggestion for the split is:
5 (pressure)
2 (spike)
1 (split)
Each team focusing on a certain aspect of the game.

Yes, i've been out of the metagame for pretty long now, but i was in a R50 guild which prioritised on splits. I do know some stuff... though not as much as you i guess. lol.

eg. last of masters in last pride. There are times when he soloed his way out with gash, sever artery and final thrust to take down 2-3 tower npcs at one go with a constant degen and only a single healing signet. He was also the first who used aura of displacement + contemplation of purity, getting rid of conditions spam right after his assa spike, and taking down tower npcs with his sin.

The meta may have changed, but degen is still useful against npcs, especially when they don't have a self heal. seeping wound had a new change, 15 dps

The build damage is based on degen, but there are utility skills as well. Running(flag), snaring, knockdown, deep wound. It may not be brilliant when a team is denied split tactics, but the team of 7 can play a more team reliant role in this case, without needing to dedicate 2 people in a split when one can be used to take down npcs and assist in running the flag (AOD at flag spawning place.). Damage from the spike is also powerful enough to contribute when a team needs to play a stronger spiking role.

Oh well. I also noticed that PnH and FF is quite a pain. I never checked skill changes. During my gvg time, everyone was playing protective spirit and mend condition. Who would ever touch an elite for condition removal? Question is, if a monk brings such a powerful condition and hex removal skill, what happens if he is shut down. *wonder*. Is ff very popular? Does adding fragility to the nec work? Prolly not, cuz fragility sucks. dang.

Simply Kedde
01-05-2009, 20:50
Wow.

Get some updates.
Those things were outdated about 3 years ago.

What the OP stated really doesn't matter too much since that won't ever work at anything higher than r5k.
You aim to play builds that'll allow you to beat players better than you, not to more easily beat people that are even worse than yourself.

No matter how fast a build can take down an NPC, it won't matter as long as said build can't also compete in effectiveness with several other things.

This can't, and it sure isn't anywhere near a threat to any single character you could possibly find running randomly around the map, at least not more so than any other splitty template.

A team of 5 can't pressure by themselves, doesn't happen.
The question is how long they'll stay alive.

There is no viable physical shutdown at the moment so they'll explode very soon.

It'll then be up to your split of 2 man to take down enough of their base to be a direct threat to their lord so they might actually bother defending it with more than a flagger.

You're not really wanting to send your own flagger to assist the split since you'll need to shuttle flags as well as need the defense against their offense and defense in their boat is rather useless.

In the odd situation that they might act offensively and collapse on your split, you still won't have enough damage to do anything in the small timeframe of maybe ~10 seconds where they're down 1 or 2 people with templates like the one you suggested.

It simply doesn't do near enough damage to make it worthwhile considering it can't do anything else efficiently.

If you want to discuss old school splits, well fine.
If you want a slightly newer one the EviL or WM or any others back then, take the "eurosplit" templates we had a couple years back.

A BA ranger and a YAA! warrior coupled with the SoR/water flagger.
It worked because it was a threat to defenders as well as able to reasonably quickly take down most NPC's.

What has also changed is that NPC's mean nothing at all.
Taking them down is of absolutely no use other than giving an extra amount of time to spend in their base next time.

You have to directly threaten their lord.

Back then, noone in their right mind ever went for the lord, but NPC's still mattered a lot because of VoD!

Kael Valeran
01-05-2009, 21:49
Back then, noone in their right mind ever went for the lord, but NPC's still mattered a lot because of VoD!

Oh. VoD doesn't exist anymore. hmm. i can't seem to get that out of my head cuz i never played gvg without VOD.

Seems like i must have overestimated the participation of NPCs. You're right, degen is no good here.

Trivia: last of masters did play solo when against npcs, killing while the other team distracts. With maps like imperial isles, there doesn't seem to have the 'fortress feel' and the travel distance is very short.

This makes the role of sins questionable, when truly, they excel at movement speed. If one were to fill a slot in a group of 7, what would it be.... hmm... i can't find a place to fit a sin cuz mesmers are purely the better choice. Oh well, at least they can drop kegs.

hmm. btw is gvg still fun?

David Holtzman
01-05-2009, 21:51
Not possible sir.


This actually is possible, but only with AoD, Shadowmeld, Recall, or Shadowalk active. Otherwise, you are right and he is wrong. Pure degen for killing NPCs... unbelievable.

Simply Kedde
02-05-2009, 11:58
I don't see shadowstepping while kd'd as anything resembling kiting.
Since that's my clear definition, moving while kd'd is impossible and makes his statement wrong.

GvG is still fun if you care to play a fun build the majority of the time.

I look forward to nerfs to all this overpowered **** so we can play byob in tombs again for glorious times.

David Holtzman
03-05-2009, 01:09
I once pulled the shadowalk trip on augie while he was on his linebacker, sitting on me. I definitely think that counts as kiting.

Simply Kedde
03-05-2009, 18:14
Specific singled out cases that count as exceptions to the rules.

That reminds me of how annoying it is to use shadowsteps and still get hit by kd's after you move.

Kael Valeran
03-05-2009, 19:04
good thing is, a snare prevents this from happening. It isn't rare. Happens 1 in 3 times for me. the falling spider won't land on time.

Akirai Annuvil
04-05-2009, 09:27
hmm. btw is gvg still fun?
Wait till the next balance update.

SurviverX
12-05-2009, 07:12
What's the fotm now?

Simply Kedde
12-05-2009, 08:07
A/P omega spike / W/A omegaspike.
Half "balanced" with different midlines.

Necros, smiters, mindshockers, kappas etc. mixed differently.

Some people run hexes with VoR, LC and a ranger.

Everyone and their ancestral mother runs WE warriors.