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Thalanor Thornhale
23-07-2010, 07:31
Well, with 3 professions released including the ranger class, it's very interesting to see how professions of GW1 have been reimagined for GW2. As already you can see in the Ranger profession thread, there is a lot of passion for the ranger class out there.

I don't know about you all, but I personally have always been fond of the Mesmer class.

So...in this light, I am not asking you to speculate whether a mesmer will make a return, or how that profession may turn out. Rather, I am asking how you would REIMAGINE such a class for GW2.

Смерть
23-07-2010, 07:51
Ahhhhh... I would re-imagine the Mesmer to have a lot more interrupts just in the possibility that other classes may not have as many as in GW1... /breath

I would like to see Mesmers have more psychic abilities that influence physical movement such as creating invisible barriers or "pushing" an enemy back a distance from attacking them, etc.

I think it would be cool to raise someone in the air, then slam them into the earth with MY MIND! :p

Kalidri
23-07-2010, 09:35
I'd like a bit of the swashbuckler to be factored in as well. I always liked the image of the mesmer for GW that had a rapier. Of course, a rapier never materialized. Since GW2 has a bit more of a Renaissance air to it, I hope that we get something like that for mesmers - so some weapon use other than staves and wands - because something like illusionary weaponry surely must live on in GW2! Think of the eye candy!

Wisley
23-07-2010, 09:59
I'd like a bit of the swashbuckler to be factored in as well. I always liked the image of the mesmer for GW that had a rapier. Of course, a rapier never materialized. Since GW2 has a bit more of a Renaissance air to it, I hope that we get something like that for mesmers!

The screenshots of the carnivals in the human cities do seem to be leaning that way but I can't imagine a swashbuckling Charr Mesmer.

A focus on control would be good, although for them to be used in a solo mode they would need some form of direct damage ability.

Nohjo
23-07-2010, 10:15
I see... Mr.Darcy. He lifts objects with his mind, slams them into other people.
He lets people panic. He lets them cry. With his mindcontrol abilities, he brings dispair to his foes. People who suddenly get clumsy, and cant move because they think they have a heavy burden on their shoulders.

When Mr.Darcy is done casting his hexes, he pulls out his flintlock pistol, and shoots. Shoots till they are all dead.

Malhavoc Adhamar
23-07-2010, 13:54
I'm seeing mesmers something like this atm:

Main hand: Sword, Wand
Off hand: Focus, Dagger
2-hand: Staff

Sword + Dagger: Anti Melee skills + Domination type skills
Sword + Focus: Anti Melee skills + Illusion type skills
Wand + Dagger: Anti Caster skills + Domination type skills
Wand + Focus: Anti Caster skills + Illusion type skills
Staff: AoE interupt and damage skills.

Vana
23-07-2010, 13:59
flintlock pistol

Having mesmers use handguns would actually be pretty cool.

bearsfwd
23-07-2010, 14:04
Having mesmers use handguns would actually be pretty cool.

I agree, when Nohjo said that, the picture immediately popped into my mind. And IMO, it works wonderfully. You could have your Orlando Bloom lookalike with a pistol. If they gave them rifles (doubt it) you could have your Balthier from FFXII.

fallot
23-07-2010, 14:18
I'd expect them to be very similar and have the ability to wield pistols at least. Most certainly I'd be expecting melee range disables/control with weapons like the dagger. I don't think there's any aesthetic reimagining in order to be honest, they're going to be the same profession. Of course, this means they will be very different due to GW2s different basic systems but imo you can expect the jump to not be greater than GW1 Warrior > GW2 Warrior.

sorudo
23-07-2010, 17:27
IMO they should be able to cloak him self and his party, use illusions to plague the enemy and in PvE, even take control of enemy's minds.
the class is in fact an illusionist, no use making a class about it and have not even one skill that even resembles it.

funkylovemonkey
23-07-2010, 17:37
This is a pretty interesting question, because when you think about the basic design philosophy of GW2, where you want to be able to see instantly what spells or skills are being used, you run up into a problem with Mesmer spells from GW1, that Mesmer spells are unspectacular. You don't call down fire from heaven or pull up dead enemies, you stop a spell from finishing or you redirect energy from an attack back on the attacker. Those are hard things to make visual.

I like a lot of the ideas put forward so far. Maybe for interrupts, instead of canceling the spell itself before it emerges, the Mesmer sends the spell back or blocks it with some sort of magical wall. Imagine how much more valued Mesmers would be if you could see an elementalist call down down meteor shower and just before it hits have a shimmering wall of energy deflect it. Or reverse pheonix so it turns back on the caster. Or have illusionary chains wrap around a warrior preventing them from landing an attack. That may be difficult to implement, but could be pretty spectacular.

Смерть
23-07-2010, 20:00
Maybe for interrupts, instead of canceling the spell itself before it emerges, the Mesmer sends the spell back [...]

Oh, that would be brilliant. I like this idea a lot.


[...]
the class is in fact an illusionist, no use making a class about it and have not even one skill that even resembles it.

Well put.

If one where to go the illusionist route, there are a lot of fun things to do for, example:

The mesmer casts a hex on a target such as a warrior, that flips around whatever "buff" spell or skill might be used throughout a period of time. So if a Healing Breeze is cast on the warrior, it turns into a -7 degen; or if the warrior uses a sig of defense that gives him +40 armor he actually gets -40 armor.

Dragina
23-07-2010, 20:05
Maybe for interrupts, instead of canceling the spell itself before it emerges, the Mesmer sends the spell back or blocks it with some sort of magical wall. Imagine how much more valued Mesmers would be if you could see an elementalist call down meteor shower and just before it hits have a shimmering wall of energy deflect it. Or reverse phoenix so it turns back on the caster. Or have illusionary chains wrap around a warrior preventing them from landing an attack. That may be difficult to implement, but could be pretty spectacular.

That sounds epic!

Yeah I always thought of my mesmer as an aristocrat and I think a rapier/pistol would do wonders for that look. Also I really like the telekinesis idea, it just makes the class that much cooler.

Malhavoc Adhamar
23-07-2010, 20:08
I like a lot of the ideas put forward so far. Maybe for interrupts, instead of canceling the spell itself before it emerges, the Mesmer sends the spell back .

If Mesmers get a sword in their weapon choices I will make mine a Sylvari, dye it's armour green, capture a fairy and start humming the boss music in LoZ:OoT when fighting human Ganon, everytime I'm fighting a spellcaster.

bearsfwd
23-07-2010, 20:56
If Mesmers get a sword in their weapon choices I will make mine a Sylvari, dye it's armour green, capture a fairy and start humming the boss music in LoZ:OoT when fighting human Ganon, everytime I'm fighting a spellcaster.

Oh darn, I was considering doing that with a ranger :tongue:

The mesmer has so much potential. I think they may inherit some things from the GW assassin though. Not sure what exactly. But it always felt to me that the assassin and mesmer went relatively hand in hand.

knightmawk
23-07-2010, 21:39
if they keep the same image of the Mesmer, the actor with the mask and all that, I would like to see more weapon options then we saw for the ele and will probably see for other scholars.

Main hand: Sword, Dagger, Pistol, Wand.
Off hand: Dagger, Pistol, Focus, Torch
2 handed: Staff

As for their spells I would like to see more control. Not just like, immobilizing and slowing, but I mean straight picking people up and smashing them into walls, mind control of low level monsters, pushing enemies back with your mind, throwing them off of cliffs, more mental abilities too like mass confusion. Make all your enemies go crazy and just kill whatever is closest to them.

Kalidri
23-07-2010, 22:32
As for their spells I would like to see more control. Not just like, immobilizing and slowing, but I mean straight picking people up and smashing them into walls, mind control of low level monsters, pushing enemies back with your mind, throwing them off of cliffs, more mental abilities too like mass confusion. Make all your enemies go crazy and just kill whatever is closest to them.

Ah, the jedi mesmer? :D

I do hope they get a little bit of flashiness but not too much, I have always liked that the mesmer was a bit more subtle. We already have elementalists doing all the flashy stuff. What I like about encountering mesmers is that there's that little "wtf?" moment when you get interrupted and have to figure out what just happened, it's part of the fun. The first time I encountered a very good domination mesmer in pvp was quite inspiring and painful :laughing:

funkylovemonkey
23-07-2010, 22:43
The other side of that though is Mesmers tend to be undervalued simply because you don't see the good they do. I mean it's awesome that you locked the elementalist out of casting any fire skills for twelve seconds, but you and the elementalist are the only people on either team that knows that's happened. It's even worse in PVE, where the mesmer can sit back and quietly congratulate himself or herself that she stopped those two skills which could have wiped the party, but the rest of your party is quietly wondering if the Mesmer is doing anything at all.

I think there needs to at least be a better balance. For me the joy of playing Mesmer was taking control of a combat situation and making the opponent completely useless. It was so much easier getting skill hunter on my mesmer simply because some of those pesky monk or elementalist bosses were utterly destroyed by a few good Mesmer skills. I don't think there's any harm in showing some of the more powerful things that a Mesmer does visually.

Nilix Delnori
23-07-2010, 23:02
IMO they should be able to cloak him self and his party, use illusions to plague the enemy and in PvE, even take control of enemy's minds.
the class is in fact an illusionist, no use making a class about it and have not even one skill that even resembles it.

In PvE sure, but there is nothing that frustrates me more than invisible opponents. I could deal with the occasional "Oh no! Am Fah dropped from the ceiling!" and "More Life Pods and Devourers surfacing from the ground!" But cloaking as a skill to possibly use in PvP would frustrate me to no end.

bellissima
23-07-2010, 23:13
Having mesmers use handguns would actually be pretty cool.
I agree!


We certainly have some things from GW1 to help us imagine flashier effects. Mistrust is the one that springs to mind first. But also... I love the animation for soothing images. A cloud of butterflies would be even cooler than the birds from Nature's Call.

Manwithtwohands
23-07-2010, 23:58
Swordplay would be cool for a mesmer-type profession if it were magic enhanced.

Like a feign death sword skill where you faint and lie there, but if the opponent attacks your body, it phases out revealing it was an illusion, and you soar up from the ground behind them, launching them into the air.

I am also really hoping that skill mimicry and stealing is present somehow in GW2. It was such a cool thing because its use dynamically changed depending on factors outside your control. It was a very involved form of redirecting skills that required a player to be very conscientious of others abilities.

bearsfwd
24-07-2010, 00:03
mind control of low level monsters

Why not mind control of any enemies except bosses. The higher the level the higher the chance of failure. Then there would have to be something that would enable you to get better at mind controlling higher levels, whether is your level, or if it was the talent level.

Meliai
24-07-2010, 02:10
Yeah giving Mesmers some guns, rapiers, daggers or fans would be neat. :D

For some reason I keep imagining a Mesmer casting a spell that would cause one mob to attack one of their allies (would be unfair in a PvP setting though).

Mesmers will probably be a solid profession against both melee and caster types. Not overtly poweful like the Elementalists, but definitely be able to hold their own while soloing. As far as flashy animations go, illusions should get fancy cg models. Like have a phantasm appear before the victim and scare some of their HP away. Or maybe something very silly like cast an enchantment that will make them fall in love. :p They'll have little pink hearts floating above their heads and everything. I think Lo Sha would approve. They'll probably have more health stealing abilities too.

I really hope they keep fast casting in some form. Mesmers need it to truly shine in a group, especially if they're up against Ele's.

Смерть
24-07-2010, 02:43
For some reason I keep imagining a Mesmer casting a spell that would cause one mob to attack one of their allies (would be unfair in a PvP setting though)


I could see something like that working ion PvP. If there was a skill that put a significant life degeneration on someone which was also protected from allay healing, then put a mechanic on the spell where the only way that person will live (because they will die from degen otherwise) is by attacking one of their own teammates to gain life via stealing health (so many seconds attacking an ally the spell stops). In the end, the damage is distributed among two opposing players, and one player (maybe the second also) are distracted from the actual fighting for a little bit (though I could see something like this from the necromancer as well).

Thalanor Thornhale
24-07-2010, 03:20
For me, the GW2 Mesmer looks like a renaissance type person, a trickster with a charm no one can resist. Well-versed in the use of swords, guns, daggers, and wands, the mesmer is the master of manipulation.

He can evasively work in close range, jumping back and forth just out of the foe's range, teasing and taunting him/her. As a trickster, always has a bag of tricks he can use. Blinding powder, chocking powder to temporarily distract the enemy, vials of valium to put them to sleep or just make them slower. His skill with the rapier is exceptional and he can use it to disarm other foes for short time in battle. Poor foes who will have to pick up their weapons first, and fast if they want to live. The mesmer also likes throwing daggers which he can equip with all sorts of interesting things. Daggers with mana sapping electricity shock, smoke bombs, or real explosives, or maybe just things that look like bombs. The foe will surely want to get that off him quickly before it goes off. Too bad it was just a distriction - just enough for the mesmer to aim using his pistol.

Weapons apart, the mesmer is also a magician. Although not master of the elements, the mesmer is the master of illusion and trickery. Smart magic you may say. He can pull out a force mirror to deflect incoming attacks. He can create sparks that distract the casters of long incantations and cause them to backfire. Master of manipulation: He can pull and push objects and people into harmsway or out of harmsway. He can seal a magical attack into his handy pouch only to release it in a different place. Master of illusions: you never know if you hit him or just an immaterial illusion of him.

But really, down at heart, the mesmer really despises brute violence and prefers to spend much of his time admiring art in all its splendor.

sorudo
24-07-2010, 09:16
In PvE sure, but there is nothing that frustrates me more than invisible opponents. I could deal with the occasional "Oh no! Am Fah dropped from the ceiling!" and "More Life Pods and Devourers surfacing from the ground!" But cloaking as a skill to possibly use in PvP would frustrate me to no end.
it's technically the exact same thing, it just has an animation before it uncloaks it self but that's all there is.
if in PvP there is an animation before you uncloak your self then there is no problem at all, just player originated instead of a random mob.:brainiac:

Bilbo Baggins
24-07-2010, 16:33
Why not mind control of any enemies except bosses. The higher the level the higher the chance of failure. Then there would have to be something that would enable you to get better at mind controlling higher levels, whether is your level, or if it was the talent level.

"These aren't the dwarves you were looking for, he can go about his business, move along."

Minionman
24-07-2010, 17:40
Why not mind control of any enemies except bosses. The higher the level the higher the chance of failure. Then there would have to be something that would enable you to get better at mind controlling higher levels, whether is your level, or if it was the talent level.

Or even mind control Bosses, provided the control system does not allow the bosses to take damage, or be dropped off cliffs (or some equivalent) for damage. If the bosses were really resistant, it might provide some time to heal, let cooldowns wear out, etc., but not actually help hurt the boss. (Plus mind control would likely be costly anyway.)



He can evasively work in close range, jumping back and forth just out of the foe's range, teasing and taunting him/her.

Those ideas do sound quite cool, and overall I like reading the ideas in this thread (although, as with just about any speculation, it's almost certain that Anet has come up with something completely different. :) )

The only worry I'd have with such skills is if too many classes start to get than. Ranger skills are somewhat similar in being movement based, the dagger character may also have similar skills (If it is in fact an assassinish class), warriors also seem to have a few movement based skills, and who knows what other classes have.

As always, it will be quite interesting to see what happens when all this is actually revealed.

Egal
25-07-2010, 05:49
I find the idea of playing some sort of swashbuckling online Errol Flynn really appealing but that would better suited to a different or new profession. A "mesmer-like class" sure, but not a mesmer.

The mesmer's weapon is between his ears. If, in the course of 250 years, mesmers have come to rely on pistols and blades to do what they used to do with their minds the profession has certainly gone backwards.

I'd be wary of giving any profession the ability to control monsters and make them attack eachother. It's great fun, and satisfying from a role-playing perspective in singleplayer games, but I'm not sure it's suited to multiplayer. Effective when soloing but there's a danger of making other party members redundant when grouped, and useless in PvP.

What's more, casting a spell that exploits the stupidity of the AI and standing back watching them kill eachother is a long way from what we might expect from a game that should require a bit more skill to play.

I'm mostly happy with the mesmer as it is. I'd like to see it made more viable for solo play, as that will be needed for GW2, but that doesn't need a big overhaul of the profession.

Can't wait to see what Anet are going to give us.

Thalanor Thornhale
25-07-2010, 06:16
It is easy to imagine a swashbuckling mesmer and all, but after having thought about it a bit, a converting the GW1 mesmer into a GW2 mesmer is actually not easy and may actually be one of the hardest conversions.

The reason for that is that in GW1 most skills were reactive and invisible - one of the reasons Mesmers were underappreciated. The developers stated that for GW2 they wanted skills to be much more self-explanatory and visual.

How then, would one compose a set of weapon-based skills that deal damage in a unique way, have a visual effect and do not entirely rely on the opponents actions to deal damage? Remember: Each class should be able to be self-sustainable as well and that includes doing damage.

I will be very interested to see how this conversion will be for GW2, whether the Mesmer has really made the jump to the next century or how mesmerish-concepts may have been merged with another profession.

sorudo
25-07-2010, 12:16
you can't balance the GW1 skills for GW2 without a complete overhaul, the skills in GW1 are made to use in a dual profession system so they will simply not work in GW2.

Shanaeri Rynale
25-07-2010, 20:00
No swashbuckling, No fancy zoom whoosh kapow. Just a class that can unleash, quietly and without fuss and bother an invisible hell on their opponent.

Although part of me is pleased there will most likely be the mesmer class in GW2, another part of me is concerned that it wont 'feel' like a mesmer to play. What I loved about the mes in GW1 was the interupts.. The HA! gotcha feeling when you hit a WoH cast or being able to shutdown 3 or more foes within a few moments.

When played right, the GW1 Mes felt like you were almost 'dancing' Cast, move, shutdown, move, interupt, move... It was a unique playing experience, that I hope wont be dumbed down

I will be disapointed if they turn the mes into a necro with a few proactive shutdowns.

Thalanor Thornhale
31-07-2010, 22:18
I still have a hard time imagining mesmer magic with a wand in GW2, but from what I have observed, there is a consensus here that it would be cool to see a Mesmer with guns 'n daggers. I like the idea as well, and here it is very easy for me to imagine a GW2 mesmer. The great thing about the weapon-skill system is that each profession may have different skills despite holding the same weapon.

So to make Mesmers unique when it comes to guns 'n daggers is to make the bullets and daggers magical!

Imagine magically charged bullets that tear through spirits or bounce or neutralize an incoming magical projectile attack. The quick shot of a mesmer gun can be used to interrupt the caster. Magically charged daggers can burn the energy of a target. I somehow see guns as domination counter type devices. That leaves wands and foci with more illusionary thinking.

Manwithtwohands
01-08-2010, 00:42
Maybe there will be 1 adventurer, 1 scholar and 1 soldier profession having a skill set utilizing both magical and physical skills.

I think the 2nd soldier class will have some form of magic. If assassin, or something like it is in the game, it might have some type of magic as well.
So who knows, maybe a scholar profession will get some type of physical skills in the end.

I am just hoping a GW2 mesmerish profession will have the same depth the already 3 revealed professions appear to have. Without secondary professions, a mesmerish profession might need some radical additions/changes to its playstyle to have a lot of variety to it.

Egal
01-08-2010, 07:33
I cannot, for the life of me, work out why mesmers, who have the power to deny and punish others with their minds, would decide to start channeling these powers through mechanical devices. GW2's pistols may be interesting new inventions for Tyrians but who'd bother to try to invent a backfire or diversion bullet? Mesmers? Huh?

A man who doesn't have a strong magical talent but is good with a pistol (or blade, or bow) would look to expand his skills to include interrupting casters, killing magical enemies and so on. A mesmer can already do this by thinking about it. Why on earth would he give this up in favour of having to carry a gun around?

As long as the profession works well I'll be happy, but gun-toting mesmers don't make sense to me and I'd much prefer it if Anet didn't go that direction.

(As for wands, being one of about 11 people who play a male mesmer, I like the idea of a gentleman's walking stick type cane. Elegant, appropriate to the mesmer's style but also an effective melee weapon. I always thought illusionary weaponry would have worked better with a cane as cane fencing has historical precedent, the cane is already a mesmer's weapon and the illusion of making a cane work as effectively as a sword is a bit cleverer than making a sword work like a sword.)

powercozmic
01-08-2010, 10:46
Looks wise this is my imagining of the mesmer/necro hexer for GW 2 :smiley:

http://a.imageshack.us/img40/936/necrow.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/i/necrow.jpg/)

Akirai Annuvil
01-08-2010, 11:00
Looks damned nice.

Zayren
01-08-2010, 11:50
I'd imagine a mesmer class to be totally obsessed over by everyone for their "unique and cool armor and playstyle" despite being pretty boring in PvE (in which people are talking about their mesmers). Yup.

powercozmic
01-08-2010, 14:19
As long as the mesmer skills are cool and true to GW 1, guns are just a replacement for wands and staves.

We forgot whips. Mesmers need whips :smiley:

Thalanor Thornhale
02-08-2010, 09:23
As long as the mesmer skills are cool and true to GW 1, guns are just a replacement for wands and staves.

We forgot whips. Mesmers need whips :smiley:

And that exactly may be the problem: A 100% conversion of Mesmer skills from GW1 to GW2 will not work because:

a.) Mesmer skills from GW1 were not very visually explicit.
b.) Mesmer skills at this point do not rely on location awareness, and may often be single person focussed and based on reacting to one person.

On the other hand, it was the interrupt abilities of the mesmer that made him/her such a valuable player when it came to influencing this abstract notion of game control.

As to whether a mesmer should wield daggers or not, or guns or not, I suppose that is a matter of taste. I appears to me that the majority likes mesmers with guns and daggers, and even swords. However, there is at the same time reservations about reasons why mesmers should wield guns and daggers when they did everything with their minds (and canes) before, or reservations about "swashbuckling" mesmers. This is a matter of taste. I have a hard time deciding one way or another.

But the big question for me still remains how a mesmer will be like in GW2. I have yet to see any constructive game mechanics for a proposed GW2 mesmer. This is not criticism, but I think goes to show HOW hard it actually is converting the GW1 mesmer o a GW2 mesmer.

It is for this reason that I hope to soon learn something...anything about how a Mesmer 2.0 will work with the next profession releases. wink wink.

powercozmic
02-08-2010, 10:45
Somehow this talk of mesmers with guns got me fired up. I think there's plenty of possibilities :smiley:

http://a.imageshack.us/img97/8341/mesgun.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/mesgun.jpg/)

fallot
02-08-2010, 18:15
You could have made up a better skill!

Akirai Annuvil
03-08-2010, 14:30
Add rapier to the left hand please. And a pirate's hat!

Thalanor Thornhale
03-08-2010, 19:31
Add rapier to the left hand please. And a pirate's hat!

Please, you are thinking of a pirate - not a mesmer. Mesmers are much more refined. No swashbuckling, please :-)

Alaris
03-08-2010, 20:00
I think mesmers should be able to pick between mesmers and pirates. I like the idea of combo'ing those two.

Even though everyone knows ninjas > pirates.

funkylovemonkey
03-08-2010, 21:05
My Male Mesmer looks a lot like a pirate, eye-patch and all.

I think mesmers occupy a unique space somewhere between Jedi and Pirate...

seamussheridan
03-08-2010, 22:17
Mesmers do remind me of the middle age gentlefolk fighters, with a rapier in one hand and a dagger in the other. I mean IW is in there for a reason.

Not a pirate though, eww. They are far too undignified to be a mesmer.

Alaris
03-08-2010, 23:01
@seamussheridan: yes, agreed, gentlefolk fighters is a much better fit for mesmers than pirates. Thanks for bringing that up.

Thalanor Thornhale
04-08-2010, 01:16
What do you think this will mean for a Mesmer-like class in GW2?


* Gw2Italia: In GW1, the PvP part depended much on interrupts which are obviously based on ping. Will latency be again a key element to be competitive? How do you think to solve this issue?
* EricFlannum: There is less emphasis in Guild Wars 2 on super quick reaction (within less than a second) skills. Instead we tend to focus more on strategic positioning and proactive skill usage. That is not to say that we don’t have interrupts, but with our lowered emphasis on healing, it is much less important.

Source:http://www.gw2italia.it/sito/interviste

Akirai Annuvil
04-08-2010, 17:34
They don't realize you can use interrupts to disrupt offense as easily as disrupting defense?
I don't see this as an argument against interrupts being in the game, nor as a confirmation (stuns are interrupts too).

Alaris
04-08-2010, 17:51
Less emphasis on super quick reaction, to me, means that interrupting longer-cast spells can still play a significant role. Proactive also means more interrupts like "next spell fails" rather than "current spell fails". So you anticipate and interrupt in advance.

shivafang
06-08-2010, 21:41
I'm seeing mesmers something like this atm:

Main hand: Sword, Wand
Off hand: Focus, Dagger
2-hand: Staff

Sword + Dagger: Anti Melee skills + Domination type skills
Sword + Focus: Anti Melee skills + Illusion type skills
Wand + Dagger: Anti Caster skills + Domination type skills
Wand + Focus: Anti Caster skills + Illusion type skills
Staff: AoE interupt and damage skills.

^^ This fits the playstyle of the original Mesmer very well (except most of the AOE were elite).

Pistols: Armour ignoring direct damage and mana burn.

Mesmers were always my favourite class, but I was never good at interrupts. (Cry of Frustration was the only interrupt I used) I used a lot of disablers, armour ignoring damage, and spell steal/blockers. Mesmers were so much my favourite class that it spoiled me for other MMOs because nothing comes close, so when this game comes out, Mesmer will be #1 on my list to try.


They don't realize you can use interrupts to disrupt offense as easily as disrupting defense?

Yeah, this quote confused me too. In Guild Wars, monks were impossible to interrupt (fast healing skills, part of the reason I didn't use interrupts on my bar, because I was the one dealing with the monks and I found it better to divert and arcane theivery than to try to intterupt). Interrupts were to target Eles.

Thalanor Thornhale
06-08-2010, 21:59
Mesmers were always my favourite class, but I was never good at interrupts.

We will have some fun discussions then when GW2 comes out and if Mesmers will make it into GW2. Remember, this class has not been explicitly confirmed yet.

Btw, I see you recently signed up and this is your first post as well. So I just wanted to welcome you to the GWonline community!

You'll find that this community tends to be more relaxed and more mature than some other places.

This being your first post, I look forward to reading more from you in the future.

Akirai Annuvil
06-08-2010, 22:25
Yeah, this quote confused me too. In Guild Wars, monks were impossible to interrupt (fast healing skills, part of the reason I didn't use interrupts on my bar, because I was the one dealing with the monks and I found it better to divert and arcane theivery than to try to intterupt). Interrupts were to target Eles.
Not what I meant. I meant that interrupts were useful for their flexibility in disrupting both offensive and defensive tactics. Also barring patient spirit you should have been able to interrupt all healing skills when cast. Most had 3/4-1c, the exact timeframe where mesmer rupts shine.

I'd also welcome you but I'm part of the initiation squad. Have you died in a typhoid induced fire yet?

shivafang
07-08-2010, 00:27
Most had 3/4-1c, the exact timeframe where mesmer rupts shine.

Maybe most in the game, but most that were actually used were instant. I did a lot of GVG pre-Factions (I got very burnt out by factions release, mostly because I had been playing since Alpha Test and I got to the point where I had had enough of the game, oh and my guild pretty much fell apart around that time.) I played a little during Factions and Nightfall, but I was no longer doing much GvG. Anyways, so if the meta changed after Factions, I don't know about that, but I'm used to fighting off instant spells where interrupts are totally useless. Since I was the only solid Mesmer player in our guild, I was always on Monk duty, with the standard Fast-Casted hard monk rez when morale was low.

Enenion
07-08-2010, 05:46
Making mesmer skills more visual on the battlefield wouldn't be very hard IMO. You just need to add some cool effect to the skill. For example, the hex Conjure Phantasm from GW1, if indeed it makes a return, could simply have the image of the phantasm appear above the player or holding on to the player it is cast on. It is after all an illusion and, while being visually appealing, that doesn't really change the mechanic of the skill at all.

The same can be said about interrupts. If the enemy can be heard cursing after being interrupted or the spell fails in a spectacular manner, like an explosion or something else, that too is pretty visually stimulating and what has happened is pretty obvious.


Less emphasis on super quick reaction, to me, means that interrupting longer-cast spells can still play a significant role. Proactive also means more interrupts like "next spell fails" rather than "current spell fails". So you anticipate and interrupt in advance.

I think that is the case too. I get the impression that they are trying to make the game easier to pick up by more people and the mesmer profession or at least it's interrupt role wasn't very friendly to new players. Also with their talk of wanting proactive support instead of healing, why not have proactive interrupts?

shivafang
07-08-2010, 06:02
Also with their talk of wanting proactive support instead of healing, why not have proactive interrupts?

This always makes me think of Diversion, which disables the next skill used. (Smart players will use it on something they don't need, but every once in awhile you can tag a critical skill).

Diversion always had a place on my bar (pvp) if I was even marginally specced Domination.

Akirai Annuvil
07-08-2010, 11:30
Maybe most in the game, but most that were actually used were instant. I did a lot of GVG pre-Factions (I got very burnt out by factions release, mostly because I had been playing since Alpha Test and I got to the point where I had had enough of the game, oh and my guild pretty much fell apart around that time.)
Yeah rupting divine boon backline was hella annoying. A pblock on mend ailment was very nice though.

Anyways, so if the meta changed after Factions,
During Factions monks ran Blessed Light (1 second cast) for healing, NF brought Light of Deliverance (1sec) and nowdays it's WoH (.75c)+Patient Spirit (.25c). The relative effectiveness of interrupts increased proportionately.

This always makes me think of Diversion, which disables the next skill used. (Smart players will use it on something they don't need, but every once in awhile you can tag a critical skill).

Diversion always had a place on my bar (pvp) if I was even marginally specced Domination.
The suggestion is more like shame, guilt or mistrust. Diversion never interrupted a skill it just heavily penalized its use. Try it with Glyph of Sacrifice, insanely fun.

Personally I'm just hoping for a backfire spell- "If target foe casts a spell, that spell is interrupted and all players in the area take damage and are knocked back."

powercozmic
07-08-2010, 12:16
This video has a male mesmer (who looks a lot less "gaey" then the GW1 male mesmer btw) at 4:13 to 4:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_RxPXsOSNA

Enenion
07-08-2010, 20:56
Personally I'm just hoping for a backfire spell- "If target foe casts a spell, that spell is interrupted and all players in the area take damage and are knocked back."

Backfire was always fun to use, though making it damage enemies in an area may be a bit much but who knows. Less emphasis on reaction time could also mean more skills that disable enemy skills like blackout or skills that really discourage using the skill, like backfire.

shivafang
08-08-2010, 05:38
This video has a male mesmer (who looks a lot less "gaey" then the GW1 male mesmer btw) at 4:13 to 4:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_RxPXsOSNA

I actually liked both mesmer models/animations.

That concept art resembles the mesmer from GW1, but for all we know it could be an important NPC.

Given that the mesmer was the only really original core class in GW1 I can't see them removing it. (Ritualist, Paragon and Dervish were all pretty unique too, but they were all expansion classes.)


Swordplay would be cool for a mesmer-type profession if it were magic enhanced.

Honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if Illusionary Weapon was one of the core skills for a mesmer's sword. (The only reason it was made elite in GW1 was because it got broken with Warrior skills, especially 100 blades, which also got made elite. It would be fine w/o dual classing)


For me, the GW2 Mesmer looks like a renaissance type person, a trickster with a charm no one can resist. Well-versed in the use of swords, guns, daggers, and wands, the mesmer is the master of manipulation.

100% (Agree with the rest of your post too, but I'm not gonna quote the whole thing.


GW2's pistols may be interesting new inventions for Tyrians but who'd bother to try to invent a backfire or diversion bullet? Mesmers? Huh?

It has to do with theme and flair. In many medieval RPGs that have guns, they were restricted to the nobility (I'm looking at Arcanis, here). Nobility is part of the Mesmer concept. I also get the vibe of FFX-2's 'gun mage' class, and the mage gunners in Warmachine. All of which have a very slight 'flair' which I associate with the Guild Wars mesmer.

The guild wars mesmer has always been considered 'roguelike' and swashbucklery, but more 'noble' than 'piratey', even though it lacked the physical swashbuckleryness core (Unless you mixed in Warrior, Ranger or Assassin, particularly with Illusionary Weapon)

Anyways, right now I'm only 'interested' in GW2 (after being a diehard fan of GW1 for 2 years before release and after release before factions). If the Mesmer class gets anounced, I will be gaga over this game, because the mesmer class is the main thing I miss about GW1.


The same can be said about interrupts. If the enemy can be heard cursing after being interrupted or the spell fails in a spectacular manner, like an explosion or something else, that too is pretty visually stimulating and what has happened is pretty obvious.

Honestly, this runs counter to the mesmer concept. Sure the concept can change in this game, but the mesmer was always about being subtle, almost sneaky. They have a flair for subtly using their opponent's strength against them and remaining unscathed. Keyword: subtle.

One of the things I enjoyed the most about the GW1 mesmer was that you were indirect support. At my best, the party doesn't even realize exactly what I'm doing - but they know that when I'm not there they seem to have a much harder time of things. When I am there, things just sort of work out. I don't do obvious big damage or obvious big heals.

I'd be pleased if they kept this for the mesmer, sure eles and warrior and rangers get impressive visuals, but I'd like the mesmer stuff to remain subtle and sneaky.

Egal
08-08-2010, 11:11
Backfire was always fun to use, though making it damage enemies in an area may be a bit much but who knows. Less emphasis on reaction time could also mean more skills that disable enemy skills like blackout or skills that really discourage using the skill, like backfire.Dunno if Backfire was ever fun to use. It produces satisfying results but the fire and forget nature of the spell makes it a bit dull.

I wonder if the current BF is a good fit for a game with more solo play. I don't want to cast Backfire (or Empathy, which gets a mention cos it's similar and, coincidentally, I'm listening to Crystal Castles' Empathy at the moment) on a foe and stand there letting him beat me up - killing himself in the process - while mashing my self-heal.

A Mistrust/PI/Panic mashup might be a bit overpowered but is more in keeping with how I think the mesmer could work in GW2 without the huge overhaul some think the profession will need. Damage is done (to your opponent) and damage is prevented (to you and, if present, your party.) Also, if it's a one-shot single-use hex with a short duration you need to think a bit more about when to apply it, which makes it a bit more interesting to use.

I'd say a short duration hex is also more interesting than a long one, like the current Backfire, as enemy hex-removers have less time to assess the value of removing it versus letting it time out, and are forced to make the decision quickly. Creating these sorts of little quandaries is a fun aspect of the profession. No idea if that will apply in GW2, though, without having a better overview of support skills. Maybe no player needs to make that decision for himself or party members. For example, the new blind certainly doesn't require the old approach; no players of any profession will be agonising too long over how to deal with that.


It has to do with theme and flair.I understand this as an argument for why players may want mesmers with guns - because mesmers are sort of like classes in other games that also use guns - but it's no reason for mesmers themselves to want to use guns. I won't bother to repeat what I said earlier but I'll add that if mesmers are a "noble" type I'd think guns were beneath them.

Granted, the wishes of players (and Anet, if they see things the same way) trump the, uh, views of a group of computer game characters. If gun-toting mesmers are deemed sufficiently cool, we'll get them and I'm sure a lot of players'll be very happy.


less "gaey"I'm convinced my mes looks manly as, but male mesmers have a long tradition of being dismissed as "fruity." Might take a 9 foot charr mesmer with a face full of fangs and horns to finally change that perception.

Tim Paradox
08-08-2010, 11:35
This video has a male mesmer (who looks a lot less "gaey" then the GW1 male mesmer btw) at 4:13 to 4:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_RxPXsOSNA

Off topic...
2:34 -2:41 : Abaddon?

EDIT: re-posted in a more appropriate thread. Sorry.

Enenion
08-08-2010, 15:30
Honestly, this runs counter to the mesmer concept. Sure the concept can change in this game, but the mesmer was always about being subtle, almost sneaky. They have a flair for subtly using their opponent's strength against them and remaining unscathed. Keyword: subtle.

Subtlety may have been part of the mesmer in GW1, but they've stated that the skills will be more visible in GW2 which is why some people say the class would need a complete overhaul. I think it's fine if they add a little more flair to the mesmer skills, like my previous example with conjure phantasm. It's fine if they do keep the mesmer a more subtle class, I just don't think that's very likely.


Dunno if Backfire was ever fun to use. It produces satisfying results but the fire and forget nature of the spell makes it a bit dull.

I found it fun to use, just because it could efficiently shut down some casters or if they didn't notice it they would kill themselves reasonably quickly and wonder what's going on. I do get what you are saying about shorter hexes being more fun to use though.

Egal
08-08-2010, 16:27
Assuming there's is going to be a GW2 mesmer, I'm really curious if there are mesmer skills that interact with other skills, like the oft cited fire + arrows = flaming arrows example. What happens if you shoot through a chaos storm? How do you shoot through a targeted hex? I can't imagine how this might work or how you get your ranger buddy excited about flashy combos.

Any thoughts on this?

shivafang
08-08-2010, 22:25
Assuming there's is going to be a GW2 mesmer, I'm really curious if there are mesmer skills that interact with other skills, like the oft cited fire + arrows = flaming arrows example.

I think the 'cross skill synergy' they keep mentioning is overhyped, so I'm honestly not going to believe it's as cool as they say it is without seeing it firsthand. I suspect most of them won't get used for general use because it requires two specific skills to be used at almost the same time.

Besides, what combos are there between Warriors and Rangers? Is this something specific to magic users? If so Ele will pretty much get all the love with it, and I can't get excited about that.

That said, I imagine Mesmers combining spells more with Elementalists or Necromancers than with weapon using classes. Or perhaps the synergies will be more along the lines of the GW1 necromancer spells, there's one that increases cold damage, if I recall correctly (Chillblains? Something like that?) which would synergize with a water ele.

Thalanor Thornhale
09-08-2010, 22:38
Sword + Dagger: Anti Melee skills + Domination type skills
Sword + Focus: Anti Melee skills + Illusion type skills
Wand + Dagger: Anti Caster skills + Domination type skills
Wand + Focus: Anti Caster skills + Illusion type skills
Staff: AoE interupt and damage skills.


It has to do with theme and flair. In many medieval RPGs that have guns, they were restricted to the nobility (I'm looking at Arcanis, here). Nobility is part of the Mesmer concept. I also get the vibe of FFX-2's 'gun mage' class, and the mage gunners in Warmachine. All of which have a very slight 'flair' which I associate with the Guild Wars mesmer.

My sentiments exactly. Somehow, a gun and domination interrupts just fit.

Akirai Annuvil
10-08-2010, 18:16
What happens if you shoot through a chaos storm? How do you shoot through a targeted hex?
Obviously when you shoot a projectile through a chaos storm, it splinters into multiple projections, dealing aoe damage ala scattershot.
Though you can't shoot through a targeted hex, why wouldn't certain weapons be able to cut through certain hexes? And obviously a conjured phantasm would empower a nearby spirit.

Besides, what combos are there between Warriors and Rangers? Is this something specific to magic users?
Rangers can create firewalls as well. I'm not sure how else their combos will combine. I can imagine a frost trap which freezes enemies making them more vulnerable to the shattering blows of a hammer, get defrosted by the fire of an elementalist, etc.

raspberry jam
10-08-2010, 19:20
This always makes me think of Diversion, which disables the next skill used. (Smart players will use it on something they don't need, but every once in awhile you can tag a critical skill).I hope so. Diversion is one of the best designed mesmer skills.

funkylovemonkey
11-08-2010, 01:39
I don't think the Mesmer profession needs a redesign at all, honestly, they function very well at what they do. And I have to say I don't agree at all that a Mesmer's spells should be unspectacular and almost unseen. I suffered through five years of Mesmers being ignored and derided because half the population of GW didn't understand how to use them and thought they were underpowered simply because they didn't realize how much work the Mesmer was doing. If they weren't getting hit by damage the credit always went to Monks or Ritualists, never to the Mesmer who interrupted two meteor showers and a couple Searing Flame spells. And did anyone but I know that I locked down that boss's bar so he couldn't effectively fight back? The truth is that while the Mesmer was great in concept, for the most part it was difficult to play through the game as a Mesmer and often I forced to go it alone. If they bring back the Mesmer in GW2, I would really like to see that change.

The defining characteristic for Mesmers for me wasn't subtlety anyway, it was control and intelligence. It was taking an enemy out of the game before they could even engage, locking them down or using their own attacks against them. It was about considering my enemy before attacking rather then just going in with a one size fits all mentality.

Because of that I have no problem with mesmers casting very visible and even spectacular spells, wards and interrupts.

And my male mesmer just knows how to dress well.

Смерть
11-08-2010, 02:19
And did anyone but I know that I locked down that boss's bar so he couldn't effectively fight back? [...] I have no problem with mesmers casting very visible and even spectacular spells, wards and interrupts.

I agree that Mesmers rock. Though more flashy skill visuals would look nice, I think players who do not follow the Mesmer much will unfortunately still then ask, "Now what did that flashy spell actually do?" (unless it is actually affecting them).

funkylovemonkey
11-08-2010, 19:54
Well I think it has to be more then just flashy, it has to also be visually instructive. Going with the redesign of skills in other professions, the animation of the skill should in a very visual way demonstrate what the skill does. For instance, if you have an elementalist pick up a boulder and fling it at your party, the Mesmer casts a spell while the boulder is in midair that shatters that boulder (a version of the interrupt). Of course because of the realistic limitations of all the possible combinations of interrupts the animation will have to be more of a one size fits all, but I think that's possible even with Mesmer spells.

Egal
12-08-2010, 01:02
I wonder if it's technically easier to reverse animations and then have the effect land on the caster. Using your example: ele picks up a boulder and flings it at your party -> mesmers does his mesmer thing and ele animation reverses, as does boulder's flight animation -> impact animation happens at caster's location and caster and his allies take damage instead.

All "combinations of interrupts" are already in place, just need to be flipped around a bit.

Mesmer doesn't shatter boulder in mid-air as he has no power over boulders, rather he uses the ele's boulder flinging power against him, making him reverse his magic. So, it's mesmerish and obvious for all to see what's happened.

Sorry, bit rough, this. Gotta go to work, but i think the idea is clear, yes?

Gmr Leon
20-08-2010, 00:23
Supposing the energy system currently implemented remains...This has some fascinating implications for the Mesmer's abilities, should it return.

My first idea was this:
Each profession so far has some integral mechanic, Elementalist-Attunements, Warrior-Adrenaline, Necromancer-Life Force, Ranger-Pet. If this persists throughout the professions...The Mesmer could easily screw with each of these. Lock out attunements, make pets attack their owners, life force begin draining health, adrenaline set off like an explosive to deal damage, etc.

What ideas, if any, have you all been having?

Смерть
20-08-2010, 00:34
What ideas, if any, have you all been having?

I like your ideas.

I think it would be interesting to see for the Mesmer specific bar seeing either:

-The Mesmer becoming invisible where they can in reality be an illusion of sorts (they would still take damage if something was able to find them). I think it would be fun interupting people while being invisible.

or maybe

-Once the bar hits max, the Mesmers skills have really quick casting and recharge times.

funkylovemonkey
20-08-2010, 19:47
After seeing some of the awesome necromancer skills including that black sickly cloud animation accompanying most of their spells, I'm really excited to see what they have planned for Mesmers. E-Denial is probably out in PVE (although that was never a serious part of PVE play for Mesmers anyway), but I think there are some really interesting things they can do with Mesmers that will make them stand out from other professions.

Смерть
23-08-2010, 20:12
If hard interrupts are out for GW2 (imo so far, conditions (i.e. cripple) or the new interrupts), I see the Mesmer going mostly Psychic.

Khanisaurus
23-08-2010, 23:32
If hard interrupts are out for GW2 (imo so far, conditions (i.e. cripple) or the new interrupts), I see the Mesmer going mostly Psychic.

Me, personally, I would love that. I have played psionic characters in every game where they exist, and that was how I always imagined mesmers. I just never understood the whole actor persona, a monk style had seemed more fitting but it was being used for the healer class. I wonder how mesmers will translate to other races, as I don't see Charr having much use for actors. So how does the persona of an actor fit in with what the mesmer will become.

RD
24-08-2010, 01:21
Me, personally, I would love that. I have played psionic characters in every game where they exist, and that was how I always imagined mesmers. I just never understood the whole actor persona, a monk style had seemed more fitting but it was being used for the healer class. I wonder how mesmers will translate to other races, as I don't see Charr having much use for actors. So how does the persona of an actor fit in with what the mesmer will become.

Out of curiosity, why did you see us more as monks?

I'm picturing us being mostly hexes. Degen and Dom, like we see in GW1. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway. Love, love love Dom magic.

Khanisaurus
24-08-2010, 04:49
Out of curiosity, why did you see us more as monks?

I'm picturing us being mostly hexes. Degen and Dom, like we see in GW1. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway. Love, love love Dom magic.

I tend to imagine mentalist magic in the genre of monk, you know like the real world monk that can perform amazing feats because of how they have trained there minds and bodies. I wasn't saying I expect them to be like the monks that GW1 went with.

But explain to me how the lore of mesmers being actors and roguish like will fit in the Charr, Sylvari, and Asura lifestyles. I can see maybe the Norn with their great penchant for storytelling, but really do you see the Charr running around with a gameplay flavor of "Romeo, oh Romeo wherefore art thou". Mesmers in GW1 were actors, that flavor will need to change for them to bring the mesmer forward. Was in no way talking about the spell selection or playstyle.

RD
24-08-2010, 17:59
I don't think Mesmers are technically all actors or anything. From the Prophecies manual:

Mesmers are masters of illusion and control, subverting the enemy’s Energy for their own use, and that of their allies. Combined with any other profession, their skills provide excellent support, turning enemies’ powers against them and changing the very fabric of reality to hinder foes and help allies. Mesmers have the ability to cast spells quickly, which can make all the difference in the heat of battle. Their powers of domination allow them to take control of enemy skills and Energy. Their unique illusionary talents can slow or even halt enemy movement and skill casting, or cause imaginary illnesses that drain Health and Energy from foes while healing and energizing allies. While Mesmers are not known for brute strength, their ability to confuse, distract, and drain the enemy’s resources more than compensates.

I think the perception of us as actors comes from Lady Althea in Pre-Searing, and Norgu in Nightfall, right? I can't think of anywhere else Mesmers are associated with actors, though I could be wrong.

Akirai Annuvil
24-08-2010, 18:14
Aesthetic. Their clothing is highbrow society, definitely has a melodramatic, theatrical flair to it.

I'm personally waiting for the Necro release before making any comments about Mesmers being in. I didn't find any interrupts or hexes in the demo, and from what I've learned about the Necro they don't have hexes at all. However I can definitely see a list filled with conditional skills and chain spells (a very interesting concept, if nothing else).

shivafang
26-08-2010, 18:38
I think the perception of us as actors comes from Lady Althea in Pre-Searing, and Norgu in Nightfall, right? I can't think of anywhere else Mesmers are associated with actors, though I could be wrong.

It's also from the masks we wear.

Manwithtwohands
26-08-2010, 18:49
They should have afterimages like Alucard does.
And should also have his backdash. For the speed runs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyf7jbNkWBE#t=2m0s

Thalanor Thornhale
27-08-2010, 16:24
I have been wondering lately whether I would reimagine the Mesmer as an adventurer-class character or scholar-class.

Just the idea of adventurer class would sound nice although I am not sure how that would work with game balance.

Lensor
27-08-2010, 16:44
From my ramblings in the profession thread:

I think the mesmer will probably be a little more cloak-and-dagger-y than the GW1 version (since there are apparently no hexes and energy is a long-term resource), wielding a dueling sword (gogo GW1 concept art!), dagger offhand and pistols. As well as the wand/focus option of course. I do not think it will wield a staff though, since it feels too clunky for the flourish of the mesmer.

I thus imagine a GW2 mesmer that is slightly more "hands on", but still a scholar.

RD
28-08-2010, 01:35
From my ramblings in the profession thread:

I think the mesmer will probably be a little more cloak-and-dagger-y than the GW1 version (since there are apparently no hexes and energy is a long-term resource), wielding a dueling sword (gogo GW1 concept art!), dagger offhand and pistols. As well as the wand/focus option of course. I do not think it will wield a staff though, since it feels too clunky for the flourish of the mesmer.

I thus imagine a GW2 mesmer that is slightly more "hands on", but still a scholar.

So, you're imagining GW2 Mesmers as a Rogue/Mesmer hybrid?
...Goodness, I just peed a little with excitement. I hope you're right :)

EDIT: Also, have hexes being removed been confirmed? I was assuming that they just took them away from Necros and made Hexes the Mesmer mechanic.

geneazure
28-08-2010, 02:56
If the mesmer does not work the same as it did in GW1 then it is not a mesmer anymore. Pure and simple, you cannot call something the same without any related mechanics.

Lensor
28-08-2010, 03:27
Neither the warrior, the elementalist nor the necro work exactly as in GW1 in GW2. I still think they are the same professions at the core though. Of course everything is pure speculation at this point, but I doubt Anet will call it something a mesmer unless most people would actually see it as one. :)

Thalanor Thornhale
28-08-2010, 07:18
I must say, I am getting more and more intrigued about how a mesmer-like profession will be re-imagined for GW2 given that:

a.) energy is now a long-term resource
b.) hexes are largely gone in the form as we know it from GW1

I think Genazure mentioned:


If the mesmer does not work the same as it did in GW1 then it is not a mesmer anymore. Pure and simple, you cannot call something the same without any related mechanics.

And I do remember Anet mentioning that if a profession does not work the same it would be called something else. Genazure seems to assume certain features from GW1 when he/she thinks of Mesmers. These features might be hex-heavyness, or certain strategies such as energy denial.

However, I think Anet is thinking on a deeper level. The core of what makes a Mesmer special is its emphasize on control. For GW1, because the emphasize was on timing of skills, many abilities of the mesmer had something to do with disruption of the flow of skill use (think of interrupts, cast slowers, cast for loads of damage etc.). I think this feature will be preserved, but I am currently lacking the imagination for how this could be accomplished with fewer skills that are more diverse in its use.

Additionally, as mentioned in another thread, I think that Anet will expand on control of position with the Mesmer given that GW2 is supposed to emphasize positional play. Again, how this will be accomplished with fewer skills and lack of hexes is beyond my current imagination.

I think re-imagining a Mesmer must be one of the hardest things to do in terms of profession (re)creation and game balance.

But for this reason, I am most intrigued by how this may turn out. Everyone pray, that the next profession revealed will be the last one known from GW1 :laugh:

P.S.: Is it just me or is there a disproportionate number of people here on the forums who have special affinities towards the mesmer profession? I look at this thread and some other threads (like the necromancer thread) and get the impression that they "hype" for mesmers is much higher although this might not be representative of the wider GW2 audience.

P.P.S.: I just started thinking about all the other classes released so far.

Elementalist manage the attunement to the elements.
Warriors manage their adrenaline levels.
Rangers manage their pets.
Necromancers manage their life force levels.

So far each profession got its own resource to manage. That got me wondering what this resource will be for the mesmer-like class.

Akirai Annuvil
28-08-2010, 11:23
CHAOS! MESMERS MANAGE CHAOS!!!

...wot?

Gmr Leon
28-08-2010, 19:32
I wonder if Mesmers could turn Fear against you...

"Necromancer! Use Fear on the enemy, I've set a trap behind him!"
"Got it!"
"Why is it coming towards us faster?!"
"F**K! Why didn't you tell me they had a mesmer with them?!"
"What?! There was a mesmer?! F**K! RUN!"

Thalanor Thornhale
05-09-2010, 22:33
And still no picture postcards from the Mes...

(Reference to a song...)

Thalanor Thornhale
31-01-2011, 04:07
Well, in light of all the new information release (e.g.: Guardian Profession Information Release), I am wondering if it has changed how you imagine a mesmer would be working in GW2.

For me it has. Things that I thought were in the domain of the mesmer were actually implemented into the Guardian in an interesting way. Examples:

- Wall of Deflection redirects projectile damage.
- Various forms of movement controls via ground-based signs.

I am really curious how the Mesmer will implement the element of "control" - all that of course with the stipulation that the last scholar profession is indeed a mesmer-like class (we don't actually know yet).

By the way, when I write about implementation, I am not really talking about animations like swashbuckling pirates, I am more thinking of particular game mechanics.

Alaris
31-01-2011, 04:48
Guardians so far is the only one with wards etc. I expect there won't be many with those abilities, mesmer is unlikely to possess those.

Mesmer is more likely to have doppleganger illusions, phantasms that attack like summons, and spells that make the foes projectiles turn in mid-air and hit them back.

I really have no idea.

Warrior, ele, ranger... those were nice but more of the same... Necro had some new elements. But guardian took me off guard. I think the other professions will have nice surprises gameplay-wise.

raspberry jam
31-01-2011, 10:08
Guardian wards deflect and block physically (well, as physical as a blue, sparkling energy bubble can be). I expect mesmers to be far more subtle.

Giggles
31-01-2011, 13:36
CHAOS! MESMERS MANAGE CHAOS!!!

how the hell did I miss this post

maybe they'll put up zones / wards that will screw up people. like wall of nubness. domain of newb. haxxor storm.

shawn
31-01-2011, 13:49
I hope my mesmer can use Blue Steel.

D519hT7-ytY

Maybe by the time I hit 80 I'll have learned how to pull off Magnum. But I don't want to get too ambitious.

Alaris
31-01-2011, 13:50
I want Haxxor Storm NAO!

Shanaeri Rynale
31-01-2011, 20:04
Guardians so far is the only one with wards etc. I expect there won't be many with those abilities, mesmer is unlikely to possess those.

Mesmer is more likely to have doppleganger illusions, phantasms that attack like summons, and spells that make the foes projectiles turn in mid-air and hit them back.


I hope it's this. Also perhaps being able to create illusions of friendly spells which dont actually have any effect, but will fool the enemy into reacting/acting. For example, mesmer casts a spell that creates the illusion of a wall of fire. Enemy team then have a choice, either prepare to mitigate fire damage or hope it's an illusion.

For the elite mesmer skill, the mes could create an illusion of another team make using their elite skill (e.g creates an illusionary tornado).

Basically the mesmer would create fake weapon and spell effects based on their team mates. We got a big hint of this in the Edge of Destiny book and I think we can take cues from that as to the way the mesmer class will go.

It would create a truly unique class, rather than the chaos nuker it's evolved into.

Thalanor Thornhale
31-01-2011, 22:01
I hope it's this. Also perhaps being able to create illusions of friendly spells which dont actually have any effect, but will fool the enemy into reacting/acting. For example, mesmer casts a spell that creates the illusion of a wall of fire. Enemy team then have a choice, either prepare to mitigate fire damage or hope it's an illusion.

For the elite mesmer skill, the mes could create an illusion of another team make using their elite skill (e.g creates an illusionary tornado).

Interesting, but then I am also concerned because illusionary spells that you described don't actually do any damage. If all characters are designed with the goal in mind that they could survive on their own as well, then an illusionary tornado will not do much in terms of ridding yourself of NPC foes for example.

Alaris
31-01-2011, 22:10
Agreed with Thalanor. Original mesmers were great, except that they didn't do much damage... they prevented the opponents from doing anything useful though...

But in solo that'd be terrible. Also, even in teams it could prove unpopular, compared to other professions that can protect your team yet also do damage (e.g. guardians)... see the needed buffs to mesmers in GW1 PvE.

Shanaeri Rynale
31-01-2011, 23:49
Sorry if I was unclear, I was assuming mesmers would have the usual array of damage/heals as well. I'm sure spells like conjure phantasm, ether feast and the like, but that the focus will be on fooling the enemy into taking a wrong action or one that will spell their doom :)

RD
01-02-2011, 00:19
*Raises hand*

Why do Mesmers have to change at all? So far, none of the classes revealed doing the same thing classic Mesmers do. Seems like E-Denial will be even more detrimental... I know we're working under the assumption (fact?) that hexes aren't in game, but maybe they're still there, just named differently (if a profession that is changed is named something new, why not a game mechanic?).

It just seems like people aren't thinking a few tweaks to the class, like we're seeing with the other professions. We're talking about whole new mechanics, that wouldn't even be a Mesmer anymore.
I wonder if we're getting revealed last. Poor us... Mesmers are always the least favorite (after the Dervs).

Giggles
01-02-2011, 00:41
they're changing cause they said there aren't hexes in the game, that along with interrupts as we know it.

I see them either they're going to be condition freaks or they're doing something completely different.

RD
01-02-2011, 03:48
they're changing cause they said there aren't hexes in the game, that along with interrupts as we know it.

I see them either they're going to be condition freaks or they're doing something completely different.

That's what I mean, though: Maybe there aren't "hexes," but maybe there's still a mechanic that functions like a hex. Maybe "hexes" are just lumped in with "conditions" now.

Maybe there aren't any direct interrupts anymore (is that confirmed?), so maybe everything works like Shame, or maybe we get silences or something.

I don't know. Please don't ruin my profession :cry:

shawn
01-02-2011, 04:01
Pssh mesmers are just going to be like eles. Except all their spells will aim for the head, and leave a trail of butterflies.

Alaris
01-02-2011, 04:09
Here's a confirmed mesmer spell.

Twilight. For 10 seconds, makes target foe's skin sparkle. Target foe fails to show emotions or produce coherent thoughts, and instead develops intense attraction to the smelliest ally.

Смерть
01-02-2011, 16:54
Here's a confirmed mesmer spell.

Twilight. For 10 seconds, makes target foe's skin sparkle. Target foe fails to show emotions or produce coherent thoughts, and instead develops intense attraction to the smelliest ally.

:shocked: that's worse than fear!

ccrazool
01-02-2011, 19:13
Rapiers.

If they miss the chance to add rapiers to mesmers in GW2 I'm going to shake my head slowly and make a couple "tsk" sounds.

Alaris
01-02-2011, 19:19
Mesmers should be the only profession capable of stabbing a foe in the eye using a rapier... thereby inflicting blindness, bleeding, and much shame.

Gorani
01-02-2011, 19:54
Mod announcement

Since this thread has been moved from the general discussion forum to the GW professions forum and is too big to be just merged with the "speculation" thread (without tearing up discussions & replies), this one will be open until we have a reveal thread for the Mesmer. After that a Mod will close down this thread.

Gorani

Alaris
01-02-2011, 19:59
Yes! Gorani confirmed that we will have a reveal thread for the mesmer (implying that mesmer will be revealed) !

*happy dance*

http://lorirs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/happy-dance.jpg

ccrazool
01-02-2011, 20:13
Oh hey, I heard that Gorani just confirmed the Mesmer reveal date?

I'll retweet that to drum up some more traffic for this thread, then, ok?


;)

Gorani
01-02-2011, 20:15
Yes! Gorani confirmed that we will have a reveal thread for the mesmer (implying that mesmer will be revealed) !

*happy dance*

:shocked::fortuneteller:
I am an official source now?
:rolleyes:

It will be the biggest surprise for me, if we don't have a Mesmer class, after that it is hinted in both novels. (They had "guardian auras" in Destiny's Edge too, so the BML was just a matter of time.

I think we should have a "reveal vs. expectation" thread for each new class once we have official news about them and all leftovers transfered to the "wild speculation" thread after that. If we know more about the skills (on a future demo) we will be able to have a "Preview Guardian" sticky too. It is just too early for that one.

Thalanor Thornhale
02-02-2011, 02:04
This is how I imagine the mesmer to be (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Thalanor_Thornhale/Bringing_the_Mesmer_to_GW2). It's a work in progress, I just started to define what weapons the mesmer would be able to use and came up with skills for the off-hand weapons only. More to follow...Feedback is always welcome as usual. What do you think?

Reposted here for ease:


This is a work-in progress document as I am fleshing out a vision of how I envision the mesmer

==Mechanics Defining the Mesmer==

- The Mesmer is the master of controlling and manipulating the foe. To manipulate the foe he/she can steal spells, or temporarily disarm opponents, hinder movements and affect area of effect spells. Some of his attacks are also rather disruptive - they can interrupt actions.

== Special Resources ==

As with the other previously mentioned professions, the mesmer also manages a special resource. For the mesmer, these are spells that he has stolen.

== Weapon Types of the Mesmer ==

* Main-Hand: Sword, Wand
* Off-Hand: Gun, Dagger, Focus
* Two-Handed: Staff

== Skills Associated With Weapons ==

=== Main-Hand ===

==== Sword ====

Swordsmanship belongs to the basic education of a gentleman/woman such as mesmer. Unlike warriors, who rely on brute strength, mesmers prefer delicate rapiers, and understand the art of subtle subterfuge. The sword represents the mesmer's way to deal with close combat.

===== Parry Attack =====

Strike target foe for x damage. If this skill is launched at the same time as target melee player, parry the incoming attack and deal x-y damage. There is a small delay time after this attack (see below for reason).

===== Slow Reaction -> Disarm =====

Strike target foe for x damage. If target previously was parried, deal y more damage, and slow attack speed and duration of target player by z% for a seconds. If target foe is still under the conditions of slowing, disarm opponent (by for example slapping a rapier on the hand of the opponent carrying the weapon causing him/her to drop it) for b seconds.

===== Disabling Strike =====

Strike at target foe to induce bleeding for x seconds. Steal touched players ability that he/she was about to use or a random skill for y seconds.

==== Wand ====

The wand is the mesmer's primary magic weapon. Wand spells tend to focus on single targets at intermediate range.

===== Wastrel's Worry =====

If target foe does not activate a skill within x seconds, he/she receives y damage.

===== Phantasm =====

Shoot rectangular purple mirror projection in given direction. A phantasm is born out of any foe the mirror touches. Phantasm swirls around foe creating x health degeneration. Phantasm is created out of x energy from foe caught. For each point of health lost, Phantasm looses y energy. Phantasm consists only out of energy. Damage dealt to it is converted into mana cost. Phantasm dies when energy reaches 0. If target has no energy, target becomes enervated (slow) for z seconds.

===== Depression =====

For as long as target foe is within b feet of caster, foe takes x damage for each step he/she takes for the next y seconds. If target is not moving, foe loses z energy for the next y seconds.

=== Off-Hand ===

==== Dagger ====

===== Pin The Shadow =====

Throw dagger at shadow on the ground to pin attached character to the location for x seconds. To simplify this spell, it should be sufficient to target the dagger spell close enough to a given target. Attached "bomb" will trigger after a short amount of time y, or when the caster triggers this spell by activating this skill again before y occurs. Damage is proportional to the amount of charge time, and the amount of "effort" the pinned target put in to attempt to get away. The daggers are a targetable objects and can be destroyed by reducing the hit points of the daggers to 0.

===== Shadow Daggers =====

Throw daggers chosen direction. If they hit a target, the daggers will deal x damage. Shadow Daggers can be "triggered" by activating the skill again. If done so before a target is hit, shadow dagger explodes to become a cloud of smoke. It deals x-y damage for anyone caught within it but blinds foes caught within it for z seconds.

==== Pistol ====

===== Energy Shot =====

Shoot a magical bullet in the chosen direction. Hit target receives x damage. Any skill target was attempting to use the time is interrupted.

===== Shatter Field =====

Shoot a charged magical bullet in chosen direction. This bullet deals x damage. If it hits a barrier created by a player/NPC, it shatters that barrier and deals y additional damage to its owner.

==== Focus ====

===== Arcane Thievery =====

Steal ability from target player within x distance for z seconds. If no spell or action was performed, a random skill is stolen. If the target player was using a skill, that skill becomes deactivated for y seconds where z < y, and the caster gains this ability with attributes equivalent to the target player.

===== Absorb/Backfire =====

Absorb attack entering a cone-shaped area of x degree. This can be physical, or magical attack. All attack spells/skills absorbed, will be cued. Caster has y seconds time to release these spells or take damage equivalent to the unreleased actions absorbed.

=== Two-Handed Weapons ===

==== Staff ====

===== Phantasmal Glue =====

Shoot purple magic in chosen direction. Any object pierced by purple beam become attached to each other for x seconds. Attached characters are slowed when moving away from each other. If distance is larger than the initial distance + x, the attachment breaks but deals y damage to each attached person.

===== Own Magic =====

Shoot out purple magic wave in chosen direction. Purple wave takes ownership of any magic it touches and pushes each magical object in the direction of the wave. The range of the spell is determined by how long the spell is maintained up to a maximum z. During the time of maintenance, caster cannot move. Foes caught by wave lose x health.

===== Chaos Storm =====

Create a purple sphere. An expanding chaos storm forms until it reaches the outside circumference of the sphere. Chaos storm deals x damage and drains y energy. Spells launched within the sphere get reflected within it. If players leave the sphere they must pass through the barrier and lose z energy.

===== Place Holder =====

===== Place Holder =====




Would YOU play this class?

Xunlai Agent
02-02-2011, 02:26
Some mind control would be rather interesting, though possibly off limits due to the fear condition going to the necromancers. Being able to create illusions with a few hit points like the Protoss HTemplar would be pretty nice. I think energy denial will feature heavily and will be more refined (perhaps more creative) than it was in the predecessor. I wonder what kind of team buffs mesmers will be receiving. Given that the control of energy is their strength I would not be surprised if they get a set of buffs that improve the enemy regeneration of allies akin to the Blood Magic line in Guild Wars. It would differ from the Necro energy buffs by not being in "well-form", which I suspect may be the sole method Necros support their enemies directly. However Necromancers may maintain the monopoly on energy-themed buffs, though I would be seriously surprised if they opted for this. Personally I would love if they gave Mesmers UI scrambling skills for PvP, which would be truly awesome!

GrimShade
02-02-2011, 18:31
Instead of concentrating on the Mez’s e-denial aspects I would think they would do better to work with punishment skills or Illusion skills. Chaos Storm wouldn’t need to be changed much at all to be effective, just tweak the damage and energy loss. Empathy, backfire ect could be AoE and effecting opponents in an area. Illusion spells could easily be similar causing degen to all enemies in a particular area (working on the understanding there are no Hex’s so current Hex’s would need to move to an area specific spell like Chaos Strom.)

What I do not like is mind control, but I’m pretty sure it will be in there. If a Nec can cause the enemy to flee that Mez will make them dance.

Alaris
02-02-2011, 18:48
Hmmmm, I didn't think about hexing a location, that sounds like something that would work well for mesmers.

I think they're trying to have fewer effects that are specific to profession, and rather aim effects at roles. A cripple works against melee... but hexing a caster hurts guardians but not bow warriors. It can get confusing.

So a hex could target melee or ranged or even support skills. I wonder if you could also cast on an effect to remove it or reduce it's duration, like shortening a guardian's bubble by hexing that location.

geneazure
04-02-2011, 02:28
I imagine that the Mesmer would now seem to turn a foe against himself and his enemies, while allowing his or her allies to dodge attacks and sneak in. There are already two skills that I believe are still viable in the established GW2 content. We’ve seen the guardian using spells driven from weapons to what about a caster distance hammer or sword (IWAY) and chaos storm would also viably work.

But imagine this scenario, your group faces an ele, a warrior, a ranger and a guardian. In turn how could the Mesmer affect these classes? A Mesmer deals in energy, so what if the Mesmer could channel an attack back at the caster, while taking damage themselves. If it rain fire on me, then it rains fire on you. For a warrior a ward style spell would be great as a mass backfire. Physical attacks have a % chance to be inflicted back on the opponent. The ranger could be inflicted with a chaos storm so it interrupts their fire and causes them to change positions on his battle field. The last and most appealing to me is the turning of wards and that against a guardian. If a guardian casts that valour, or a blocking wall or bubble, the Mesmer simply converts it to their own side, turning it purple instead of blue.

Support wise the Mesmer could increase the dexterity of attacks, crate copies of themselves that act like minions in the same guise as the Mesmer but with less health. A chaos storm may also allow energy and health drained in battle to be transferred to allies equally inside the field. I don’t see a Mesmer as a direct attacker, nor do I see it passively. The Mesmer seeks out the powerful, turns their powers against them, and uses that to help their allies. Think of them as the walking talking pain inverter crossed/spiteful spirit/life transfer/energy drain/ ether lord.


If we include the interrupt fashion of things, perhaps a stun gun Mesmer, or some sort of ground seal that causes spells to fail and attacks. Oh IDK, 2AM ramblings.

Alaris
04-02-2011, 03:17
Mesmers will inflict the condition "blackout".

Zain Inferno
04-02-2011, 08:11
Here are some of the moves I imagine for the mesmer in Guild Wars 2.

Mind Control:
The mesmer for a short period of time gains control of the enemy, allowing them to make an enemy's own ally against them. During this time the mesmer doesn't have control of their own character and is completely vulnerable to attack.

Black Out:
Against other players it blackens or severely darkens the screens of the opposing player. Against enemies it acts similar to fear, causing them to run around randomly or miss with the majority of their attacks.

Illusionary Copy:
Creates a copy of players character. This copy attacks the enemy's energy instead of their health. When the copy is alive the mesmer is capable of switching places with the illusion. The attack that destroys the copy backfires on the enemy.

Move Stealing:
Steals the last move the target used, allowing the mesmer to use it against them.

Backfire:
If the enemy uses a spell while infected with this condition the spell is casted on themselves instead. If it is a defensive spell the spell is used on the mesmer.

Empathy:
Surrounds the target with illusionary swords which attacks the target anytime the target inflicts damage on an ally.

Mirror Room:
Surrounds the target and the mesmer in a room of mirrors. Works similar to the guardian's shield of deflection. This room disorients the target by making them see copies of themselves and the mesmer. If the target attacks the actual mesmer the room shatters but if they attack one of the mirror images their attack is deflected back at them.

Phantasm:
Degenerates the target's health.

Illusionary Ally:
Transforms the mesmer into the image of the target. The mesmer switches places with the target 50% of the time. During the duration of this spell the target's allies are able to attack them.

Double Team:
Creates several copies of the mesmer or target ally. These copies attack as the target normally would but do no damage and get destroyed with a single attack.

Chaos Storm:
Creates a storm of chaos at the target location. This storm does damage and drains the energy of any enemy inside it.

Boon Steal:
Steals a boon from the target.

Copy Cat:
For a set duration the mesmer copies the target's moves at the exact instant they use them. Basically for a set time the enemy is fighting against themselves.

Chaos Bolt:
A basic projectile attack.

Invisible Allies:
For a set time the enemy cannot see their allies, making it difficult to target them.

Illusionary Swords:
Creates several illusionary swords that fight alongside the mesmer. Unlike the guardian's weapon spells these swords get destroyed with a single attack.

Reverse Boon:
For a short time the targets boon's have the opposite effect.

Shrink:
Shrinks the target making them take more damage and deal less. Any spell the target casts also appears smaller.

I imagine the mesmer being able to use swords, pistols, scepters, focuses, and staffs.

Thalanor Thornhale
04-02-2011, 19:24
An interesting observation I have to make is this:

It seems to me that the population of mesmers in GW1 was rather small, and mesmers were always underappreciated in PvE.

Yet, this is one of the most active threads. And more generally, the anticipation for the mesmer class seems higher.

Have you ever wondered why that is?

Alaris
04-02-2011, 19:40
I think I understand fairly well why that is...

The mesmer was always viewed as a tough class to pull off well, mainly because it's effectiveness is in preventing other classes from functioning. Also, it was in need of a buff in PvE for a long time. But mostly, the mesmer's effectiveness is hard to see while playing (there's even a webcomic about it). All that combines to make the class not that popular.

But...

The mesmer class, in fact, the very mesmer mechanic, is quite unique to GW. Oh sure there are shutdown in other games, but not nearly as prevalent as in GW, not so prevalent you could make an entire class out of it. And this is a very important aspect of GW, you have counters, and even counter-counters.

Even if I probably won't play mesmer until much later (and didn't until much later in GW), the very presence of a mesmer class says that the game isn't about dps, but about counters and counter-counters, and about strategy, and about outsmarting your opponent.

I'd have concerns that the game is too dumbed-down if they removed the mesmer... If they took that out, what would it get replaced with?

They removed dual-prof but replaced that with weapon swaps and multi-use skills. So you now rely on your weapon swaps to have a more rounded role instead of relying on your secondary profession or on your team.

They removed target-ally skills but replaced that with environmental buffs, debuffs, prots, and heals. So now you buff and prot via positioning instead of via an interface.

RD
05-02-2011, 01:42
An interesting observation I have to make is this:

It seems to me that the population of mesmers in GW1 was rather small, and mesmers were always underappreciated in PvE.

Yet, this is one of the most active threads. And more generally, the anticipation for the mesmer class seems higher.

Have you ever wondered why that is?

I've found us to be a more ... dedicated? bunch of players. I think most Mesmers have played the profession since inception, even when no one knew wtf we did. I think they even still have All-Mesmer events, but I could be mistaken.

Or maybe we just post more :)
OR maybe people just want to talk about anything GW2 related :laughing:

Shazard
14-02-2011, 10:41
How's about summon phantasm that actually summon a visible illusion?

knightmawk
14-02-2011, 13:43
I think most Mesmers have played the profession since inception, even when no one knew wtf we did.\

I'm still not sure what you guys do.

Alaris
14-02-2011, 13:58
I'm still not sure what you guys do.

Then we've done our job well.

Lady Rhonwyn
14-02-2011, 14:04
I'm still not sure what you guys do.

Don't worry, neither do they :grin:

RD
15-02-2011, 00:50
Don't worry, neither do they :grin:

This is offensive. We are absolutely aware that every Mesmer's purpose is owning as many sets of armor as possible.

Alaris
15-02-2011, 00:56
You call that armor?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/c/cd/Mesmer_Enchanter_armor_f.jpg

Giggles
15-02-2011, 01:09
It does offer some protection against oogling eyes.

Alaris
15-02-2011, 04:01
Protection against oogling eyes? Doubt it.

They sell the same armor at Victoria's secret.

http://media.victoriassecret.com/product/tmblg3/V310722.jpg

Giggles
15-02-2011, 13:26
I said some protection. There would be more oogling if she was nakid.

shawn
15-02-2011, 13:38
Neither of those mesmers are attractive. :|

They need glasses. Gives people that intelligent look. (And then they speak and completely ruin it.)
I'm a prime example of this.

Giggles
15-02-2011, 18:49
I think you want glasses to prevent the inevitable punch in the face that mesmers get.

RD
16-02-2011, 01:09
And thus the persecution of my people continues!!

You're forgetting that Mesmers can use illusion magic! For all you know, we're wearing a full suit of platemail under our swanky getups! Or maybe we ARE completely nekkid! You'll never know because you're mean.

Giggles
16-02-2011, 02:48
And thus the persecution of my people continues!!

You know why? Because only mesmers are this cool.

Ec3jIipfBqs

shawn
16-02-2011, 03:07
I think you missed an "omb"

wGZFwU-SHNc

Giggles
16-02-2011, 03:33
damn that was a really fun movie. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-SV-8iMl1I) I swear, they better have some serious swagger to the mesmer when they release it. the other classes already look to have their own fun style but, nothing close to the style I'd hope and expect or want from the best thing in the game.

shawn
16-02-2011, 04:12
When I think of swagger I think of Jack Sparrow. The male mesmer needs to be modeled off him, while the female mesmer can be Ramona.

Skyy High
16-02-2011, 16:47
Too drunk and random for a mesmer, imo. If we're comparing to movie characters, I'm thinking more along the lines of RDJ's Holmes: snarky but still dapper.

Alaris
16-02-2011, 16:59
Not pirate. Gentleman. Fancy outfit. Pistol & rapier. Clean cut.

shawn
16-02-2011, 17:12
I dunno, I've seen some rather piratey looking mesmers in gw1.

Alaris
16-02-2011, 17:21
I *guess*, but they're on the whole far more gentleman than pirate. And even the pirate ones are more elegant than drunken.

shawn
16-02-2011, 18:02
That depends on how they get played, doesn't it?

I know my mesmer certainly went on a few in-game binges. Not enough to be a drunkard, but definitely enough to pass out afk and come to sometime later, only to wonder why a shirtless warrior is relentlessly dry humping her.


Ah, Guild Wars...

knightmawk
17-02-2011, 02:36
I'm thinking something along the lines of Balthier from Final Fantasy XII, or maybe that bro from Lost Odysey, Jenn or something.

And I hope the engineer/gunner class is like Captain Reynolds from Firefly.

BrotherGrimm
18-03-2011, 17:33
I'm a HUGE fan of the Mesmer, but I'm convinced the name itself will not survive into GW2. (I kind of hope I'm wrong, however).

The shyte-storm of moaning and groaning over this from die hard Mesmer fans will be sight to behold....

GrimShade
18-03-2011, 18:16
I never understand why people don’t think Mez’s will be back…

I guess it’s those that only look that the e-denial aspect of the Mez, while a Mez completely had a roll in Degen and Punishment! Think of what we have seen with the AoE targeting of skills, add that aspect to Empathy or Backfire or Phantom Pain and you can a perfectly viable base to start a class. Second to that we already know Nec’s can manipulate the AI of the monsters, the Mez is a natural pick for someone who can puppet them.

Before the Thief was released we knew that we will see one new class, one old class revamped with a new name and one old class in name, Thief is a re-tooled Assassin. This leaves the only old classes to pick from as Mez, Dervish, Paragon, Ritualist and Monk. Which of those do you think this is… (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:GDC_2010_purplefan_cropped.PNG)

Mez will be back, I have no doubt in my mind, they wouldn't be that stupid to get rid of her.

MaximumSquid
18-03-2011, 18:26
Mesmer has always had a lot of skills that are unique in their effect

Today I'm hoping to add to that library by listing some skills that, to my knowledge, have not been previously suggested

These are being suggested for GW:2, but know that I did not list any recharge times and that damage and costs are listed as though they were in GW:1

---

Vertigo 5e, 1/4s, ?r
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3918/gw2vertigo.png

Hex Spell. For 1...3...4 seconds target foe is hexed with Vertigo and conveys the animation that they are falling when standing still. Target foe moves, attacks, and casts spells 33% slower; additionally, they can't dodge and cannot perform actions that require them to be standing still.

Why I like it:
This skill bridges the gap between being knocked down and not being knocked down. . . If you have a fast activating skill, maybe 3/4th second or less, you can still use it, but otherwise you're too disoriented to do it properly.

Too Strong?
(Add: when this skill ends normally that foe gains adrenaline)

---

Faceoff 10e, 1s, ?r
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/2827/gw2faceoff.png

Skill. For 2...5...6 seconds, target "Touched" foe will target you and cannot change target. When Faceoff ends target foe takes an additional 4...48...60 damage for each second that you mirrored their actions. Faceoff ends prematurely if you fail to mimic these actions.
(Actions might include standing still, attacking, moving, activating a skill, etc. while going with the majority action with skills trumping all other. . .)

Example Scenario:
You get close enough to tag the mesmer with Faceoff (level 14); he's standing still for the majority of the first second so you stand still, he then starts running so you chase him, and near the end of the 3rd second he activates a stance. . . You can't react in time so Faceoff Ends and deals 168 damage

Why I like it:
Another bridge skill. . . It's like blackout, but your target can still fight. . . The only difference is that they are in serious trouble if they don't break free since all the damage comes at once. . . at the same time though it might end immediately and be a waste of 10e

Too Strong?
[I](Your largest attribute is lowered by 1-4 "as if you took off your headgear")

---

Deja Vu {Elite} 5e, instant, ?r
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5577/gw2dejavu.png

Spell {Elite}. Target foe takes damage equal to the most recent time they were damaged within the last second. If the source of this damage was from you your "Other" skills are recharged instantly

Why I like it:
Wide range of uses and results. . . If you are a fan of echo mechanics, but not their shortfalls this would be just answer you were looking for

Too Strong?
(add "...otherwise Deja Vu takes an additional X seconds to recharge" on the end)

----

Hope you enjoyed. . . I tried to add as much flavor to these skills as I could

If you got comments or a link to an existing skills thread let me know!~

~Also honorable mention for a 10e version of Power Spike that also inflicts a deep wound. . .

I've wanted that forever :fortuneteller:

-

Alaris
18-03-2011, 18:27
We do know there's one more returning profession...

No dedicated healer...

Also, no sins because of its tie to cantha (what does that say about rit, derv, and paragon?)

Vana
18-03-2011, 19:26
These are being suggested for GW:2, but know that I did not list any recharge times and that damage and costs are listed as though they were in GW:1


It would be a better idea not to list energy cost and cast time at all.
You should really keep it to conceptual suggestions.


As for your outlines, there are a few basic problems.
First off, there are no hexes. Secondly, elites will be long recharge power buttons, not easily accessible utility/damage. And thirdly, the "faceoff" concept is way too awkward.

Personally, I have a hard time envisioning how they're going to pull off mesmers in GW2. Not to say that I don't think they're in - I definitely do - but I think they'll be getting a pretty good overhaul. And even if they manage to maintain the feel of the classic GW mesmer, I'd imagine that the similarities won't go far past purple colors and pretty armors.

Thalanor Thornhale
18-03-2011, 21:07
I have a couple! :grin:

Illusionary Copy

Shoot out a purple wave. For any target touched up to x max depending on the level (probably a low level) create an illusionary copy of that character (y to z levels where y>z). The illusionary copy gains any ability the original character had. Illusionary copy is considered a pet/minion. Any skill use is converted to energy use. Illusionary copies consist of pure energy. Damage to it is converted to energy loss. When the illusionary copy reaches 0 energy, it dies. Optionally, the illusion may have a-b energy degeneration.

Control Options:

I am not sure here. One easy option is as followed. If a friendly character was copied, the Illusionary Copy will support the copied character with given skills and/or attack the same target the original is targeting. Because there are many ground-targeted spells this may not be good. In this case, the illusionary copy could just copy any action that the original character is performing and move in a similar way. If an enemy character was copied, the Illusionary Copy will use those skills to attack the original character. The AI here may be tricky, so in this case, the Illusionary Copy may just copy any triggered action against target foe, and just always tries to be close to target copied original. The question is what to do when beneficial spells are launched. I am not certain yet. The easiest way probably is to remain consistant and copy those spells against original foe. A barrier cast will be a barrier not friendly towards the original that is caster's allies can pass but not him. Ground-based healing spells may heal caster's allies. Consider inserting mocking gestures and movements in illusion when not actively triggering skills.

Implications:

Copied foe must consider whether to trigger attack spells or remain inactive. If copied foe attacks, he must consider the damage dealt to him. Foe can consider attacking the illusion and take some damage in exchange for loss of some live. But in this case, foe has chosen to spend some of its energy to shorten the illusion's life-span. If foe chooses not to attack, this counts as damage prevented. If foe choses to cast ground-based beneficial spell, he/she will make himself a target as many beneficial boons will be placed at the location of the foe. Allies must be aware of location of this.

Phantasm

Shoot rectangular purple mirror projection in given direction. A phantasm is born out of any foe the mirror touches. Phantasm swirls around foe creating x health degeneration. Phantasm is created out of x energy from foe caught. For each point of health lost, Phantasm looses y energy. Phantasm consists only out of energy. Damage dealt to it is converted into mana cost. Phantasm dies when energy reaches 0. If target has no energy, target becomes enervated (slow) for z seconds.

Absorb/Backfire

Absorb attack entering a cone-shaped area of x degree. This can be physical, or magical attack. All attack spells/skills absorbed, will be cued. Caster has y seconds time to release these spells or take damage equivalent to the unreleased actions absorbed.

Own Magic

Shoot out purple magic wave in chosen direction. Purple wave takes ownership of any magic it touches and pushes each magical object in the direction of the wave. The range of the spell is determined by how long the spell is maintained up to a maximum z. During the time of maintenance, caster cannot move. Foes caught by wave lose x health.

Arcane Thievery

Steal ability from target player within x distance for z seconds. If no spell or action was performed, a random skill is stolen. If the target player was using a skill, that skill becomes deactivated for y seconds where z < y, and the caster gains this ability with attributes equivalent to the target player.

Смерть
18-03-2011, 23:04
Inverted Reality

For (x) seconds horizontal movement of target foe inverts to the opposite direction (i.e. walking forward goes backwards, walking left goes right).

Lobotomy

For (x) amount of seconds, target foe is stunned, but does not receive damage.

Illusion of Malfunction

Target foe deals half damage they would normally deal, and their armor rating is reduced by (x).

Elite Skill
Arcane Trickery

For (x) seconds when target foe activates a skill, one of their other skills is randomly activated instead.

Akirai Annuvil
18-03-2011, 23:24
You're not really up to date on GW2 mechanics are you?
I can see Mesmers as the magical variant to Guardians actually, strongly supportive. Creating areas where (enemy/all) magic rather than movement is hampered. Cleaning up AoE effects. And of course, interrupting and stealing skills (hopefully, in part, due to disarmament).

I'm more interested in Engineer skill discussion.

Thalanor Thornhale
22-03-2011, 22:40
Time Warp

All projectiles entering the time warp are slowed a lot. Touched projectiles can be controlled and shot in any other given direction.

sorudo
22-03-2011, 23:50
i have a nice link for ppl to speculate with
http://verydistilled.blogspot.com/2011/03/mesmers-hook.html
with a nice picture:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/7/74/Armor_14_concept_art.png

speculate ahead

Distilled
23-03-2011, 00:52
Hey, it's Distilled - owner of VeryDistilled.blogspot - just had to make an account to let you know that I found that image on the Guildwars2wiki concept art page:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Armor_14_concept_art.png

Giggles
23-03-2011, 01:37
no no, no, no no no, no; no no no

RD
23-03-2011, 02:13
no no, no, no no no, no; no no no

Seconded.....

Mehtis
23-03-2011, 06:43
no no, no, no no no, no; no no no


Seconded.....

Thir ded.

raspberry jam
23-03-2011, 10:21
I think orchid mesmer so kawaii :cutie:

Come on guys, it's a sylvari, what did you expect her to look like lol.

sorudo
23-03-2011, 17:09
i quite like it, then again i am a anime fan so it's no surprise ^_^

shawn
23-03-2011, 19:01
Anime fan. Well. That explains a lot.

Akirai Annuvil
23-03-2011, 19:07
I actually like the right most drawing. The second left is just... far too slutty. Seriously, wth.

I'd let none of my characters wear those outfits outside the Maguuma.

RD
23-03-2011, 19:15
I actually like the right most drawing. The second left is just... far too slutty. Seriously, wth.

I'd let none of my characters wear those outfits outside the Maguuma.

All the drawings are of the same outfit, no? Just different angles...

And it probably wouldn't be safe to wear in the Maguuma: You'd have all kinds of animals trying to eat or pollinate your clothes.

Enenion
27-03-2011, 05:07
I'm not exactly sure this is the right thread for it, but about the mesmer class mechanic, I remembered that mesmers in GW1 had mantras, long duration stances that influenced other skills they used. Other classes didn't really have anything similar to this as far as I remember. Is there a chance that those mantras will be extended to the class mechanic of the mesmer? They may not be carried over exactly from GW1, but the general principle of a long term effect that affects how skills work.

RD
27-03-2011, 16:25
That's a good point, actually. Maybe some of our mantras will be like attunements.

BrotherGrimm
28-03-2011, 22:50
Ok...my WiLd Speculation for Mesmer:

1) Name will NOT be Mesmer. Not a big deal for me, but I simply think the Devs are going to try and surprise us here. I actuallly hope I'm wrong, as Mesmer is my fav GW class.
2) E-Denial is gone but skill manipulation / control will still be in.
3) E management will no longer be a main focus (and may even be removed with the lower ephasis on energy).
4) I suspect some skill ideas from the now dead "Chronomancer" will make it into this class. I am speculating these will take the form of symbols, wards or bubble type skills used for battelfield and positioning control.
5) per above, I have long thought that the Mesmers old Mantras should become a common skill set for casters (maybe a common skill set for Staves in general).
6) Interrupts and direct damage will exist but in a much less prominent role (this makes me sad as I loved to play the fly in the ointment in GW).

Thalanor Thornhale
29-03-2011, 21:02
Interesting tid-bid from buffed.de:


buffed: Der Mesmer wird ja die nächste Klasse, was du sicher nicht bestätigen kannst. Aber verrätst du uns denn wenigstens, welche Rüstung die nächste Klasse trägt?

Peters (lacht): Wir verraten nicht, welche Klassen noch kommen. Aber gut, eine wird leichte und eine mittlere Rüstung tragen, soviel sei gesagt. Die Leute haben viele Erwartungen und wir wissen, dass viele am Spielstil mit Gedanken-Tricks und derlei Aspekten Spaß hatten. Und wir werden diese Leute sicher nicht enttäuschen.

Bolded part in done for emphasize on my part.

Source: http://www.buffed.de/Guild-Wars-2-PC-169660/News/Guild-Wars-2-Interview-mit-Jon-Peters-von-Arenanet-ueber-Endgame-World-PvP-Handwerk-und-vieles-mehr-818030/

Alaris
29-03-2011, 21:11
Even with babelfish I was not able to understand what was said. Something about people speculating and they won't be disappointed?

BrotherGrimm
29-03-2011, 21:13
For those of us that don't speak German (from Google Translate)


Warcraft: The Mesmer yes, the next class, which you can not be confirmed. But you betray us because at least that the next class with armor?

Peters (laughing): We do not come tell which classes yet. But well, one is light and medium armor wearing, let's just say. People have many expectations and we know that many had thought the style of play with tricks and fun to these aspects. And we will not disappoint people.
Note the Dev never used the word Mesmer....

Alaris
29-03-2011, 21:16
Here's my wild guess.

Mesmer is next. Guns but not bows. The one returning profession. Which means that we have no official clue what the last one could be.

Last one is engineer or ritualist-like. Summons and weapons, more combat-oriented than necro.

GrimShade
29-03-2011, 21:57
Since I like to comment on this one.

Mesmer will definitely be the name. – One old is coming back, it’s not the Monk, not the Assassin or Rit, as they associated those with Factions and didn’t want to open that box, and by the same reason they won’t hit Paragon or Dervish.
Punishment, skill prevention and Degen will be aspects of the Mez, just like they are in GW. I never understood e-denial outside PvP…
Sadly the Mez will get AI control skills…yuck.

Mesmer is next and the last one will be a new profession, If they do the new one then the Mez they lose some momentum, they need to blow us away with a new toy as a finally so we keep talking and speculating about it for at least a month.

The last class won't be an engineer...toot toot...it may be more like a hunter, guns, traps, hopefully some summonable. I really hope it's more like a Rit or Dervish though.

Thalanor Thornhale
29-03-2011, 22:09
Even with babelfish I was not able to understand what was said. Something about people speculating and they won't be disappointed?

Reads google translation...


For those of us that don't speak German (from Google Translate)

Warcraft: The Mesmer yes, the next class, which you can not be confirmed. But you betray us because at least that the next class with armor?

Peters (laughing): We do not come tell which classes yet. But well, one is light and medium armor wearing, let's just say. People have many expectations and we know that many had thought the style of play with tricks and fun to these aspects. And we will not disappoint people.

Note the Dev never used the word Mesmer....

Hmm, after reading that I must admit, I don't understand that either :-)

Let's try a real translation:


buffed: Der Mesmer wird ja die nächste Klasse, was du sicher nicht bestätigen kannst. Aber verrätst du uns denn wenigstens, welche Rüstung die nächste Klasse trägt?

Peters (lacht): Wir verraten nicht, welche Klassen noch kommen. Aber gut, eine wird leichte und eine mittlere Rüstung tragen, soviel sei gesagt. Die Leute haben viele Erwartungen und wir wissen, dass viele am Spielstil mit Gedanken-Tricks und derlei Aspekten Spaß hatten. Und wir werden diese Leute sicher nicht enttäuschen.

Translates into:



buffed: The mesmer will be the next class which I am sure you won't be able to confirm. But can you at least tell us what armor-type he/she will be wearing?

Peter (laughs): We won't tell which classes are still to come. But fine, one will have light and one will have medium armor that much can be said. People have a lot of expectations and we know that many enjoy the type of play that involves mind tricks (Edit: or mind games is the proper English term?) and such. And we surely won't dissappoint those people.

Gorani
29-03-2011, 22:15
buffed: Der Mesmer wird ja die nächste Klasse, was du sicher nicht bestätigen kannst. Aber verrätst du uns denn wenigstens, welche Rüstung die nächste Klasse trägt?

Peters (lacht): Wir verraten nicht, welche Klassen noch kommen. Aber gut, eine wird leichte und eine mittlere Rüstung tragen, soviel sei gesagt. Die Leute haben viele Erwartungen und wir wissen, dass viele am Spielstil mit Gedanken-Tricks und derlei Aspekten Spaß hatten. Und wir werden diese Leute sicher nicht enttäuschen.


buffed: The Mesmer will be the next class, but you won't confirm that. Could you at least tell us what kind of armor the next class will wear?

Peters (laughting): We won't reveal which classes are still to come. But well, one class will wear a light and a medium armor (Gorani: not sure if buffed translated that right folks), that's what we can say. People have high expectations and we know that many had fun with the play style of mind games/tricks and something like that. We won't disappoint those people for sure.


Since buffed most likely had the interview in English I think that "mind games/tricks" is the right translation, although I could be wrong. There is no link to the English version of the interview.

Смерть
29-03-2011, 22:24
Besides the hint at "mind tricks", old information and an obvious answer from Anet concerning the armor.

Thalanor Thornhale
30-03-2011, 06:43
Besides the hint at "mind tricks", old information and an obvious answer from Anet concerning the armor.

Exactly, CMEPTb!

I quoted that snippet from buffed not for the "obvious" part as you put it, but for the very vaguely worded "mind games". I wonder how "mind games" will be implemented into GW2.

The interview contains other tid-bids that might be a bit more novel and would be worth reading for that reason. I just cited that part here due to its obvious relevance.

Link to English translation on our site: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5694702#post5694702

Akirai Annuvil
31-03-2011, 22:13
Since buffed most likely had the interview in English I think that "mind games/tricks" is the right translation, although I could be wrong. There is no link to the English version of the interview.

This:
We won't reveal which classes are still to come. But well, one class will wear a light and a medium armor

Should be:
We won't reveal which classes are still to come. But well, one will wear light and one medium armor

I'd translate soviel sei gesagt as such 'so much has been said' rather than 'so much can be said'.

Feannag
01-04-2011, 05:33
I'm wondering if "mind games" refers to something ingame, or to what Anet is doing with the playerbase regarding mesmers.

Sigmatics
02-04-2011, 11:15
It was the same with the thief, they said a profession for stealthy rogue types was on the cards. Now we have the thief, a reimagined assassin.
It'll probably be very similar with the mesmer. I think he'll wield guns for sure, and he'll probably focus a lot more on telepathy and illusions, since there won't be any more interrupts.

BrotherGrimm
22-04-2011, 22:32
.....
since there won't be any more interrupts.
Care to share were you go this inside information from? I don't recall any mention from the Devs that interrupts are out. If that's truely the case, I fear ANet may loose a lot of fans (I know I would have to pause and rethink buying GW2 if that's true).

Interrupts are my major enjoyment in the game.

Xilisys
25-04-2011, 14:15
The wiki has some info on it...

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Interrupt

Sigmatics
27-04-2011, 19:58
Talking about skill interrupts like the mesmer had:

Interrupts as they existed in Guild Wars (see here) will not be as prevalent in Guild Wars 2 because of their dependence on low network latency to be used effectively.[2] However, it is unknown whether skills with a primary purpose of interruption will feature in Guild Wars 2.


From above link.

Alaris
27-04-2011, 20:14
It's *unknown* at this point if we'll have skills where the *primary* purpose will be interruption.

That means that mesmers are quite possible, including skills (or even weapons) that have a strong emphasis on interruption / disabling. I expect the interrupting to be more via conditions than hexes.

Also, yes there are no hexes, but there are skills that cause specific effects much like a hex would. They're just not called hexes, and there's no hex removal either.

GrimShade
28-04-2011, 19:45
I would expect it to come from skills. I guess knockdown is a 'condition' but a basic skill like leech sig is easily transitional to GW2. other creative ways can be thought of but a basic interrupt skill doesn't break anything or change anything.

BrotherGrimm
04-05-2011, 22:40
From that link (that I had seen previously), THIS


.....
since there won't be any more interrupts.
...is false.

(The fact that the GW2 wiki has an INTERRUPT page implies that by itself).

The major vibe I get from the wiki entry is that ANet wants to lean toward limiting or removing game mechanics that can be influenced by network latency itself. Personally, I don't like that concept, but I get that it adds a chance factor to gameplay that ANet have no control over. PvP environments will be even worse in terms of potential latency as well.

The actual death of interrupt skills will make me sad....(btw, Leech Signet is almost always on my bar).

Thalanor Thornhale
09-05-2011, 00:00
According to this (http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=697835&postcount=208) thread over at Guru2, Martin has confirmed an earlier statement at RPG that a new profession will be released "this month".

His exact quote:


I indeed said on stage that there will be a new profession reveal this month. I saw all the sad faces when I told the crowd I will not show anything new, so I thought I give at least some unknown information.

And yes, "this month" was the exact wording I used

MY bet: It will be the mesmer/illusionist. Who wants to bet against it :-)

Minionman
09-05-2011, 05:21
Wow, didn't see this announcement before. (Of course, as likely as not it means we still have about 3 weeks before the reveal.)


Agree that if the mesmer is in game (Which does seem highly likely, though I don't take chances in my head), it is more likely than not to be the next released profession. (More concept art, an obvious mention in the books, etc.), though this opinion is quite fuzzy.

Feannag
09-05-2011, 06:53
According to this (http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=697835&postcount=208) thread over at Guru2, Martin has confirmed an earlier statement at RPG that a new profession will be released "this month".

His exact quote:



MY bet: It will be the mesmer/illusionist. Who wants to bet against it :-)
I don't know, Anet kind of has a sadistic sense of humor. They'll introduce the gunner/engineer/whatever next, just to keep stringing the mesmer crowd along. You've got another six months before they finally let you off the hook one way or another.:laughing:

Thalanor Thornhale
09-05-2011, 08:44
I don't know, Anet kind of has a sadistic sense of humor. They'll introduce the gunner/engineer/whatever next, just to keep stringing the mesmer crowd along. You've got another six months before they finally let you off the hook one way or another.:laughing:

Let's say this, if I am wrong, find me in GW2, and you have earned yourself 500 gold (or whatever units GW2 is using) How much are you willing to put on the line for that, Feannag :-) ?

Xunlai Agent
09-05-2011, 12:02
New class will be revealed "reasonably soon" according to Martin Kerstein. (Source (http://youtu.be/eSZpEhlb2W0))

The new class will be revealed quite soon and will be featured before the Sylvari week.

Feannag
09-05-2011, 14:17
Let's say this, if I am wrong, find me in GW2, and you have earned yourself 500 gold (or whatever units GW2 is using) How much are you willing to put on the line for that, Feannag :-) ?

I'm just pulling your chain, I won't take your money.:tongue:

Besides, I still haven't decided for certain I'm even getting GW2. I'll decide that when I've had a chance to play, either in an open beta or a demo.

Alaris
09-05-2011, 14:31
Sylvari week?!? Glee!

Also, it's a toss up between the new class and mesmer. Probably mesmer, keep the surprise for last.

BrotherGrimm
09-05-2011, 15:26
A NEW class announceement will NOT be "Mesmer" (mostly because that's not NEW). It will be the suspected "Engineer/Mechanic/Gunner/whatever" class (my guess).

They will hold the "new" Mesmer class for last. How best to taunt a group of players that love to screw with other players?

Alaris
09-05-2011, 15:37
I assume that by "new" they mean either of the last 2 previously unreleased classes.

Also, taunting players by keeping mesmer last is entirely possible and consistent with ANet.

RD
09-05-2011, 15:44
I assume that by "new" they mean either of the last 2 previously unreleased classes.

Also, taunting players by keeping mesmer last is entirely possible and consistent with ANet.

Agreed on both accounts.

I can see them wanting to save the new profession until last, but they love messing with us Mesmers, I think :grin: I believe we were the last revealed in GW1.

GrimShade
09-05-2011, 21:55
With two classes left, one a returning that is virtually known at this point, with lots of clues and speculation, and the other a totally unknown new class, it seems clear to me they should pick the Mez as the next class released.

Provided the new class is going to be a jaw dropper and one to get us all excited they should save it for last. If the next class will be underwhelming then put it out before the Mez. But I have to think if they weren't sure the new class would get us very excited they probably would have let it out by now.

sorudo
09-05-2011, 22:54
well, they are pretty good in keeping secrets, even if the new class is amazing they still know a way to fool us.

Skyy High
10-05-2011, 00:03
I think releasing the unknown class before the mesmer would be pretty silly...everyone knows what it will be at this point, and it will just take a lot of the wind out of the hype if the only thing left unrevealed is a class that we've all been waiting for for months...

Bilbo Baggins
10-05-2011, 01:08
I think releasing the unknown class before the mesmer would be pretty silly...everyone knows what it will be at this point, and it will just take a lot of the wind out of the hype if the only thing left unrevealed is a class that we've all been waiting for for months...

Based solely on marketing, you're correct. However, they've repeatedly stated that their release schedule of information is based on what's polished enough to talk about. If they're having problems with a profession's gameplay mechanics, the other will be announced first, even if it's the "new" profession.

Alaris
10-05-2011, 01:19
What Bilbo said... although I think both professions will be released at roughly the same time. They tend to release them in pairs for some reason, no?

djacob
10-05-2011, 02:54
I think releasing the unknown class before the mesmer would be pretty silly...everyone knows what it will be at this point, and it will just take a lot of the wind out of the hype if the only thing left unrevealed is a class that we've all been waiting for for months...

Frankly, I think releasing the mesmer before the new class would be silly. We already know the new class will be an explorer that wields guns. Right now, we have no real clue as to how a mesmer will function other than that it can use spells. Unless I missed something that is.

Personally, I've been waiting for the "gunner" profession ever since the first image of a gun was released, and eagerly awaiting it ever since the blacked out charr image wielding what looked like a bazooka was shown.

Either way, as has been said, anet told us a while back that they show us new info when it's polished. Although I'm slightly skeptical on this being true throughout their history (companions)... I think they're keeping this statement very much at the front of their thoughts recently.


What Bilbo said... although I think both professions will be released at roughly the same time. They tend to release them in pairs for some reason, no?

That sounded right to me, but then I went back to look and it turned out to not be correct. The time period between the first and second release was 6 weeks, one day. Between the second and third was 5 weeks. There was another 6 weeks and one day wait for the fourth release. Then came PAX and the holiday season. I wouldn't call that two pairs so much as a slow stream of single profession releases, or if you must group them together, a group of four. Yes, the next two releases had a release roughly six weeks apart again, followed by a longer break... I attribute this more to PAX East though.

If their schedule continues, there could be another break that is longer than six weeks, and I wouldn't expect anything shorter than five weeks.

Alaris
10-05-2011, 03:53
We already know the new class will be an explorer that wields guns. Right now, we have no real clue as to how a mesmer will function other than that it can use spells. Unless I missed something that is.

ty for timelines

Also, according to my analysis earlier, we actually don't know anything for sure about the new class. Ok, ok, there's fair *probability* that it's engineer or gunner or whatnot, but... follow me into the path of madness.

Let's assume that mesmers can use guns. Why? Who not. There's certainly demand for mesmers using pistols, and I for one think it makes sense. Now if that is true, then the last profession could *in theory* NOT use guns at all and be consistent with all the clues we got so far.

So in fact, we actually have no information whatsoever that we know 100% for sure about the last profession.

sorudo
10-05-2011, 17:46
let's first see the schedule, there release is always schooler, adventurer, heavy armor.
we have the following:
1)elementalist
2)ranger
3)warrior
4)necromancer
5)guardian
6)thief

they were going to a flip side at the end of the list so mesmer (or something close to it) is the best bet.

Alaris
10-05-2011, 18:14
It should read 2) warrior, 3) ranger

Also, you have 50% chance of being right randomly. I hope you won't do the "told you so" dance if you get it right.

sorudo
11-05-2011, 18:01
It should read 2) warrior, 3) ranger

Also, you have 50% chance of being right randomly. I hope you won't do the "told you so" dance if you get it right.
am i getting it that much?..........didn't realize http://www.anikaos.com/0005-pinky/kaos-pinky07.gif

Thalanor Thornhale
18-05-2011, 02:46
2 more days until a Mesmer release! That or complete utter surprise on my part.

Either way, it's going to be good. I can hardly wait! :-)

Смерть
18-05-2011, 08:48
I'm putting my platinum on a non-Mesmer release.

shawn
18-05-2011, 12:24
There's no way they're leaving the known class for last. It's far more fun to have a new class we know nothing about as the finisher.

Alaris
18-05-2011, 14:54
There's pros and cons to leaving mesmer for last. For one, when they release the mesmer, I expect full-scale riots, the earth to tilt, and the sun to implode. This is the kinda thing you'd want to delay.

Смерть
18-05-2011, 15:01
There's pros and cons to leaving mesmer for last. For one, when they release the mesmer, I expect full-scale riots, the earth to tilt, and the sun to implode. This is the kinda thing you'd want to delay.

That stuff might happen too if...there is no Mesmer. :hide:. Playing devil's advocate here.

Alaris
18-05-2011, 15:37
Well.... seriously, some arguments...

Some arguments for mesmer being shown last:

1) Mesmer disrupts other professions, so showing it after other profs makes sense
2) Mesmer disrupts other professions, making it harder to design/balance
3) Mesmer is iconic to GW, so keeping it for last

Some arguments for showing mesmer next:

1) We already know it's coming (within 95% confidence interval)
2) Keep the last new profession for the end
3) Keep the last new profession for a conference to generate more buzz
4) Introducing mesmer with pistols would confirm that we know nothing about last profession, it's all speculation
5) Mesmer with pistols, I mean come'on, that'd be so cool

Note: I think mesmers also get to use the rifle, but I'm less certain about that. Pistols though, for sure... probably as main and offhand too.

Lady Rhonwyn
18-05-2011, 15:46
There's pros and cons to leaving mesmer for last. For one, when they release the mesmer, I expect full-scale riots, the earth to tilt, and the sun to implode. This is the kinda thing you'd want to delay.

If you release it last, you'll probably have that twice: the first time when the second-to-last profession is shown and it turns out not be a mesmer... Chaos will ensue. People will start doubting if the mesmer will even make the cut and then the final profession is shown. At that point, it doesn't even matter if its mesmer or not, as absolute mayhem will rule the entire galaxy.

RD
18-05-2011, 15:53
All I know is that, if anyone posts the Mesmer reveal before me, there will be blood!

Alaris
18-05-2011, 15:55
Imagine the outrage if the next profession released was assassin or paragon? rofl

But they did say that they didn't use assassin (instead of thief) in part because they don't want to point to Cantha (and by extension, Elona). And monk is definitely cut. So guess what, that leaves us with only one choice for returning.

What I want confirmed isn't if mesmer is coming back, but whether mesmers use guns. And what their prof-specific mechanic is, and to a lesser extent what the gameplay is like.

I bet mesmers get:
Main: dagger, pistol, scepter, sword
Offhand: torch, focus, pistol, dagger
Two-hands: rifle, staff

Mesmer gets quite a few weapons, I imagine, because their weapons tend to be more specific in what they are designed for. Kinda like mesmer skills in GW1 tend to be more specific in what they are useful for.

Смерть
18-05-2011, 20:29
All I know is that, if anyone posts the Mesmer reveal before me, there will be blood!

I am going to take this out of your intentional context and victoriously boast RDarken will be one of the unrevealed professions!

RD
18-05-2011, 22:41
I am going to take this out of your intentional context and victoriously boast RDarken will be one of the unrevealed professions!

:blush:

Kind of a boring profession. I wonder what the skills would be?

Get out of bed. Player slowly wakes up and drags himself to the shower, calculating how long until he can get back to sleep. Player's soul takes 15-25 damage. This skill is less effective on weekends.

teina
19-05-2011, 02:36
I'm donning my conspiracy hat:


Rushster knows the profession to be revealed
He made a poll with two viable options
After a bunch of people posted that they've voted for mesmer, Rushster then says he'll give a gold star to the person who guesses the next profession correctly.


Ergo, next profession is NOT the mesmer, but "the new profession".

And yes, space aliens are telling me this.

-T

DELTAg
19-05-2011, 06:48
Today's the day Today's the day Today's the day Today's the day Today's the day Today's the day Today's the 's the day Today's the day Today's the day Today's the dayToday's the day

New profession, yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes
*overhyped*

Art
19-05-2011, 07:04
Goodness me!!

I can't believe the vulgarity of this leaked news (http://bit.ly/7JJSz8). Combining the paragon and the mesmer and naming it "minstrel".

What the hell were they thinking??

-Art

shawn
19-05-2011, 07:08
Minstrel! Ahh, Anet is brilliant. I like the bit about just chillin' in the back singing songs, and dancing to inspire your allies. Sounds like they incorporated all the best aspects of the mesmer!

Mehtis
19-05-2011, 07:24
Goodness me!!

I can't believe the vulgarity of this leaked news (http://bit.ly/7JJSz8). Combining the paragon and the mesmer and naming it "minstrel".

What the hell were they thinking??

-Art

That would be quite interesting. Too bad I didn't have sounds on.

Raye
19-05-2011, 08:14
Is it bad that I actually have fun and sing along to that? xD

Смерть
19-05-2011, 10:34
...and on with the speculation!

I still think Mesmers still have a shot; a 12.5% shot, but one nonetheless.

Lucis
19-05-2011, 10:50
I can't watch the video - anyone care to summarise it?

Alaris
19-05-2011, 13:01
The best part of mesmer and paragon? The mesmer dance and the paragon's skirt & nipple armor?

Leonora Windleaf
19-05-2011, 13:51
...and on with the speculation!

I still think Mesmers still have a shot; a 12.5% shot, but one nonetheless.

I wouldn't mind having a 12.5% Shot, if you know what I mean...

Actually, come to think of it, 12.5% is kinda weak...



I can't watch the video - anyone care to summarise it?

Of course we can, because you know, we'll never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you.

Well, there you go.

Alaris
19-05-2011, 14:01
Randomly, mesmer has 1/6 chance to make the final lineup, if you only remember that one profession is returning.

1/5 if you remember that monk isn't making it, no dedicated healer.

1/4 if you remember that assassin isn't making it, thief is in instead.

1/3 if you discount ritualist, on account that assassin was ditched in part because they didn't want something so iconic of Factions.

1/1 if you apply the above logic to Elona.

Plus all the references to mesmer in art, books, etc.

Thalanor Thornhale
19-05-2011, 16:00
Well, I suppose I owe some people gold stars, or pink ponies :-)

On the bright side: I was completely surprised by this (- stupid mmorpg for AGAIN leaking information....ban them already...grumble). Also, this gives this thread a bit more life :-)

RD
19-05-2011, 16:12
:( Sometimes being right isn't a lot of fun :cry:

teina
19-05-2011, 17:09
Yes! Space aliens are correct, again!

-T

Feannag
19-05-2011, 20:11
Let's say this, if I am wrong, find me in GW2, and you have earned yourself 500 gold (or whatever units GW2 is using) How much are you willing to put on the line for that, Feannag :-) ?

I should have took that bet.

But I'll settle for a big I told you so! :tongue:

BrotherGrimm
19-05-2011, 21:48
A NEW class announceement will NOT be "Mesmer" (mostly because that's not NEW). It will be the suspected "Engineer/Mechanic/Gunner/whatever" class (my guess).

They will hold the "new" Mesmer class for last. How best to taunt a group of players that love to screw with other players?
So NEW does mean NEW....go figure.

Thalanor Thornhale
19-05-2011, 22:01
But in all seriousness, I do wonder how the Mesmer will be? All mechanics I thought would make the mesmer unique are now with other professions.

Example:

I thought the Mesmer would be able to deflect spells. Rangers have whirlwind, and guardians have various fields that either absorb or reflect incoming ranged attacks. Now the engineer can absorb attacks and spit them out later - a sort of really cool "backfire" :-)

I thought the Mesmer would be able to steal skills. The Thief...well sort-of steals items giving him new skills.

Hexes are out the door and it seems that necromancers can induce a lot of bad buffs instead (bleeding, poisoning, fear etc.).

Note: Although this sounds negative and bad, I am actually really intrigued about how the mesmer will be. Ideas now?

GrimShade
19-05-2011, 22:05
So NEW does mean NEW....go figure.

Well seeing how the Engineer turned out to be exactly as people were talking about, I'll bet they had a leek, and thus just figured they would push it out and save the Mez fashion show for last.

I don't think most people care much for how the Mez will work, just what outfits she can wear.

BrotherGrimm
19-05-2011, 23:42
Well seeing how the Engineer turned out to be exactly as people were talking about, I'll bet they had a leek, and thus just figured they would push it out and save the Mez fashion show for last.

I don't think most people care much for how the Mez will work, just what outfits she can wear.

Nice try, but several interviews have said over and over they are releasing stuff based on what is READY for release. They wouldn't change their plans at the last minute because of some speculation being tossed around the net.

It's gonna be an interesting last release if it turns out to NOT be a Mes type class....way too many people taking that for a fact and too many ANet employees standing around grinning like cats with feathers in their teeth....

GrimShade
20-05-2011, 02:15
Nice try, but several interviews have said over and over they are releasing stuff based on what is READY for release. ...

This just means they haven't finalised the wardrobe for the Mez. Just think if they released her and her skirt looked like a poodle skirt...or her gloves didn't match her bodice.

For them to not give us a Mez would mean they have gone back on what they have been telling us all along. If they chose something different that would mean they gave up on her.

Feannag
20-05-2011, 05:32
One thing to keep in mind about the wardrobes- armors aren't profession specific anymore and mesmers will be wearing the same things as eles and necroes.

Alaris
20-05-2011, 05:41
That means that necros and eles will have cool outfits for a change.

j/k necro and ele outfits are cool too, but it'll be nice being able to wear mesmer outfits on other profs

Minionman
20-05-2011, 07:24
Well seeing how the Engineer turned out to be exactly as people were talking about, I'll bet they had a leek, and thus just figured they would push it out and save the Mez fashion show for last.

Actually, this just seems to be wild speculation happening to be correct. (i know I had a bunch of guesses that were almost exactly right, just be running with a few pieces of information).

Am also curious how the mesmer will work. I do think mesmer is 90/99% certain or so, given all the clues, and how most class speculation has been pretty close to the mark, though there is always that chance that we'll be wrong.


Edit: Sure, why not do some speculation.

Two hand: Staff, greatsword(used for magical skills)
One Hand: Scepter, dagger, sword (again, used for magic skills)
Off hand: focus, torch, dagger, Warhorn

Unique mechanic: mantras that add extra effects to skills.

Skill types:

Swords: direct damage, domination type abilities
Magical weapons: conditions, support bar(s) of some sort, knockdowns of some sort, some sort of trickery skills.

Thematically/story wise:
Some pure mental skills (mind blast, telekinesis type abilities, possibly Mind Burn/Mind Freeze/etc. will be taken from elementalists)
Lots of illusions of various types
Inspiration themed skills for support.

EnoughAlready
20-05-2011, 10:32
I do worry though. What if there is no Mesmer class.
What then? what do we do?

Xunlai Agent
20-05-2011, 10:40
Mesmers are absolutely certain, more so than the engineer ever was. I cannot believe how many people fear that the Mesmer won't be making a return when we know this will be the case and have done since March 2010...

Zayren
20-05-2011, 10:42
I do worry though. What if there is no Mesmer class.
What then? what do we do?

Celebrate.

Alaris
20-05-2011, 14:15
As much as I think mesmers are cool and all, I'm not planning to play one. So uh, if they have something else instead I'd be all like oh cool, maybe something I'll play.

shawn
20-05-2011, 14:18
I'll only play one if they have some sort of healing support. Otherwise, guardian it is.

RD
20-05-2011, 14:22
Celebrate.

I told you to shut your horse mouth! Correct answer for a game with no mesmers is: Riot.

EnoughAlready
20-05-2011, 15:08
Celebrate.


I told you to shut your horse mouth! Correct answer for a game with no mesmers is: Riot.

Lulz. Mesmer is such a unique class though. Not the easiest to play (unlike Ele - look for the Monk, spike spike spike, move on), but is very satisfying.

I think I'm going to miss the dual professions because of this.

Alaris
20-05-2011, 15:13
Dual profession? Wow, I so forgot about that by now...

Weapon swap does a lot of what dual prof was meant to do, except you are actually good at both weapons equipped. Engineer and Elementalist have awesome range of skills they can switch to. All profs can be played in a wide range of styles.

Awesome stuff.

sorudo
20-05-2011, 17:23
That means that necros and eles will have cool outfits for a change.

j/k necro and ele outfits are cool too, but it'll be nice being able to wear mesmer outfits on other profs
it's the other way around too, finally some nice necro armor for the mesmer/eles.:neener: