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DELTAg
05-08-2011, 19:37
We knew this already but here is a blog post about it:

Gamers in Europe will get a chance to play the sylvari for the first time at gamescom this year. To properly unveil the new look for Guild Wars 2‘s enigmatic, inquisitive plant race, we’re declaring next week Sylvari Week here on the ArenaNet Blog and on GuildWars2.com. We’ve got a lot to show you and so much we want to talk about, so we’re packing Sylvari Week full of plant-y goodness – read on for details!

Here’s what we’ve got planned next week:

Monday – Artist extraordinaire Kristen Perry explains how the look of the sylvari has grown and evolved in a blog post full of cool art and character designs.

Tuesday – Writer Angel McCoy describes how the writing team brings the sylvari to life through dialogue in a blog post that features a load of audio clips from Guild Wars 2.

Wednesday - Lore & Continuity Designer Ree Soesbee and Kristen Perry discuss the roots and growth of this unique race in a video overview of the sylvari right here on the blog.

Thursday – We’re updating the sylvari page on GuildWars2.com with new lore, screenshots, wallpapers, and an atmospheric new sylvari video!

Friday - Ree Soesbee returns with a lore-filled narrative blog post that explores the mysterious sylvari even further.

As you can see, we’ve got a lot planned for Sylvari Week. We’ll see you back here on Monday!
[Read the blog post here] (http://www.arena.net/blog/next-week-is-sylvari-week)

1. Kristen Perry on Designing and Redesigning the Sylvari (http://www.arena.net/blog/kristen-perry-on-designing-and-redesigning-the-sylvari)

2. The Sylvari Soul – Angel McCoy on Writing the Sylvari (http://www.arena.net/blog/the-sylvari-soul)
3. Sylvari page updated. (http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/)

4. Dream and Nightmare (http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare)

vNJVYf8PCHE
[Watch video on YouTube] (http://youtu.be/vNJVYf8PCHE?hd=1)

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[Watch video on YouTube] (http://youtu.be/_bpcsxIYTXw?hd=1)

Some interesting links posted by Arenanet through Twitter:
Sylvari Lore Interview with Ree Soesbee & Kristen Perry (http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/)
Are Sylvari Unique? (http://huntersinsight.com/2011/08/11/are-sylvari-unique/)
The Sylvari are more than just a bunch of plant-people. (http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1187333p1.html)
Sylvari – Incorruptible? (http://paletree.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/sylvari-incorruptible/)
Sylvari Culture- Preconceived Notions (http://greibach.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/sylvari-culture-preconceived-notions/)

Смерть
05-08-2011, 20:29
I am looking forward to this; the race I am most interested in for GW2.

djacob
05-08-2011, 20:39
Indeed, I know I keep going on about how my main is going to be a sylvari, but just want to reiterate, I really want to see how they look and act now and hear more about their lore.

Karuro
05-08-2011, 20:58
Will be an interesting week.
Looking forward to how they ended up looking.

s4nder
05-08-2011, 21:11
My first character will be Sylvari, definitely looking forward to this.

D E A T H L I F E
05-08-2011, 21:22
Same here..very excited for this one.

Gotta hand it to Anet .. They took the elf storyline and turned it around 180. Now humans are the experianced old almost extinct race and the Sylvari wake in a new world with sparkly eyes... Love it.

Khanisaurus
05-08-2011, 21:35
While it is unlikely that Sylvari will be my main, I definitely am interested as I am sure I will play one, in fact I have the name reserved in my HoM already.

Also I found both the Sylvari characters from the two books to intensely interesting and so I look forward to learning more about this unique race.

Zayren
05-08-2011, 21:50
No way Sylvari can beat Charr.

Larqh
05-08-2011, 22:14
No way Sylvari can beat Charr.

I'm thinking Charr don't like salad. :)

I have to say, this is the first blog session I've gotten excited about in a long time. Very much looking forward to the pictures and vids. :heart:

Alaris
05-08-2011, 22:14
Looking forward to this. I had moments where I thought they were the best ever, then moments of doubt... I really want to see what the (almost) final product is. I'm also for the first time looking forward to hearing the chats etc as well.

Sylvari is current a strong candidate for main, as either engineer or guardian.

Minionman
05-08-2011, 23:48
So, pretty much the same as other race weeks were, as expected.

I am somewhat more interested in this one than the other ones, since the sylvari have fewer basics revealed than the other races, although all the weeks have been interesting so far. Looking forward to it.

djacob
05-08-2011, 23:58
Yeah, we're not even sure what they'll really look like.

sorudo
06-08-2011, 01:31
Yeah, we're not even sure what they'll really look like.
a hint:grin:
http://webex.blogsome.com/images/ent.jpg

GrimShade
06-08-2011, 01:39
I found a pic of them!

http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/04/Oddish_anime.png

DELTAg
06-08-2011, 03:06
I found a pic of them!

[IMG]

That's when an Asura and Sylvari have a baby. :3

Nemeon Lion
06-08-2011, 03:39
They are cuter then I expected, considering the asura background...

shawn
06-08-2011, 04:02
They look sort of odd-ish to me...

Thalanor Thornhale
06-08-2011, 08:41
Looking forward to this. I had moments where I thought they were the best ever, then moments of doubt... I really want to see what the (almost) final product is. I'm also for the first time looking forward to hearing the chats etc as well.

Sylvari is current a strong candidate for main, as either engineer or guardian.

Same here! Though I am more thinking along thte lines of Sylvary Mesmer or Ranger.

Gorani
06-08-2011, 11:13
If the pictures they put up with the article are an indication of how the Sylvari will look like now, I expect more of a Art Nouveau kind of look (which I would prefer) than a noble savage one .
I am anxiously excited about Monday.

Sir Jack
06-08-2011, 15:55
/excited

It's actually the race we know the least about. So far, most other races haven't really conviced me to roll them over a human apart from a few in combination with a certain profession (Norn I barely have an interest in at all and maybe Asura Engi). I really hope Sylvari may change my mind a bit.

Amlin
06-08-2011, 19:55
Bout. Damn. Time.

cosyfiep
07-08-2011, 05:15
2nded---about time they got around to showing this....though not as excited since its been like what 4 years since they were first announced (hard to keep any level of excitment up for that long).

athariel
08-08-2011, 20:55
Epic. Now I can make a Charr and a Sylvari :)

Gorani
08-08-2011, 21:00
Update is out (http://www.arena.net/blog/kristen-perry-on-designing-and-redesigning-the-sylvari)

Looks great IMO!

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:01
http://www.arena.net/blog/kristen-perry-on-designing-and-redesigning-the-sylvari

http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/SylvariMales-600x219.jpg

Larqh
08-08-2011, 21:03
So beautiful! This pegs it. Larqh will be reborn as Sylvari.

Rob Van Der Sloot
08-08-2011, 21:04
I love the new look of the Sylvari! Beautiful! And nothing close to elves at all, thank Dwayna.

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:09
I do like that you can go bark or leaves. Definitely love the artwork better than the previous, good work.

Giggles
08-08-2011, 21:11
I wasn't sure what to expect. It's certainly a huge improvement from the original design. It's befitting to the mythos that ANet has with designs, being unique unto them self. I can't think of any other game what has anything that looks quite like this. I'm looking forward to seeing them in game. I have a feeling that these couple of pictures don't do them justice.

Larqh
08-08-2011, 21:12
I do like that you can go bark or leaves.

I like that too. Looks like they are going to be much more versatile than I feared. Yay!

Gorani
08-08-2011, 21:12
Those pictures removed all doubt with me. A Sylvari will be my main character, the human will get delayed.

http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/WhintSeries-600x353.jpg

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:13
I like the idea that unlike other races, sylvari doesn't wear clothes, but rather grows them. I would find it odd to put plate mail for example on top of delicate leaves, but then growing thicker bark makes sense.

Nemeon Lion
08-08-2011, 21:21
Bioluminescent Sylvaris? On my forest?

Awesome!

Malhavoc Adhamar
08-08-2011, 21:22
I was debating whether or not to create a Sylvari character and now with the change I think I will be.

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:27
I really do hope that I read that correctly, that armors will be leaf/bark growths rather than slapping on chainmail and leather.

Also, still thinking about engineer for this race. So I can plant some turrets, and gun down any vegetarian that comes my way. DEATH TO VEGETARIANS! It's time for plants to retake the earth.

Blazing Liger
08-08-2011, 21:28
I'm not really sure what to think at the moment. I definitely prefer the redesign over the first one (the original was much too cartoonish for my taste). Caithe looks quite nice, as do maybe a couple of the other characters shown. I need to see more variety before I make up my mind, though. In particular, if Sylvari are going to get their own race-specific armors, how are those going to work with the dye system? I'm not really sure how some of the designs pictured are going to have three channels per piece. I see lots of greens and browns shown, but I want to see something else: deep purples, vibrant reds, etc.

I'm still thinking of making a Sylvari as an alt (probably mesmer), but I'd like to see more examples. I'm still going to main a charr, but the redesign wasn't going to change that no matter how good it is. :tongue:

thulsey
08-08-2011, 21:29
Beautiful.

Seriously tempting me for the first time.


Let the "twig and berries" jokes commence!

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:29
I do want to see more examples, especially of armor types and dyes, but this week will be full of goodies.

Nemeon Lion
08-08-2011, 21:31
Just waiting for the race video to completely make up my mind.

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:42
To clarify, this will either be my main, or my secondary main.

I'm too psyched about making fun of "meat", of vegetarians, etc. Do want cherry bombs. And do like the new art.

The only thing left to find out are racial skills, and more concept art for armors. Barring important racial skill problems, it's fairly unlikely that this race will drop below main.

Erasmus
08-08-2011, 21:44
Wow. Better than I expected. I'm impressed. I thought we'd still end up with fairy imps or such.

funkylovemonkey
08-08-2011, 21:45
Wow. The Sylvari weren't anything that interested me when I first heard and read about them, I hadn't planned on doing a Sylvari character at all. But now, I think I'm definitely going to have to try it out. The artwork is gorgeous, and I love that late in development they went back to the drawing board because they weren't completely happy. It says a lot about the development team, and one of the reasons I'm okay with the "ready when it's ready" answer.

Giggles
08-08-2011, 21:46
Now if they only did this with the Asuran......

Atomics
08-08-2011, 21:46
The new design is a vast improvement.

I can actually see myself creating a Sylvari character now.

They look less cartoonish, while retaining a somewhat inhuman look, I like that.

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:47
I wonder how crafting armors will work...

Will we get armors specific to dungeons etc, and if so, will they also be leafy?
Will be use materials other than wood?
Will we be getting metal leafs?
Will it get boring wearing leaves and bark all the time?

Gorani
08-08-2011, 21:49
I do want to see more examples, especially of armor types and dyes, but this week will be full of goodies.

Feast your eyes on this quick photoshopping, which replaced the old placeholder pic I had on the GW2 wiki for the past months.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/7/73/User_Gorani_ele00.jpg/270px-User_Gorani_ele00.jpg

Feannag
08-08-2011, 21:49
Well, I'll say this much. No one is going to confuse them for elves anymore.

Mehtis
08-08-2011, 21:54
They look really, really good. And the explanation about stems etc. really showed that great care was put into the redesign.

Erasmus
08-08-2011, 21:54
Ok after reading the design blog I'm even more impressed by the research and design philosophy. Hey Alaris, this sort of fits with your "invention in your process" thread.

Giggles
08-08-2011, 21:54
I hope we'll be able to have horns.

Alaris
08-08-2011, 21:54
Is that a sylvari thief, or a bush with guns? Oh the paranoia!

edit:

@Erasmus: it does indeed, I really feel the invented a race rather than innovated.

@Gorani: awesome photoshop. And best part is that I can see that being feasible in-game with dyes.

Gorani
08-08-2011, 21:56
I hope we'll be able to have horns.

No, you will have branches (or thorns, as only animals have horns)

http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Winter-Skin-421x600.jpg

Giggles
08-08-2011, 21:58
No, you will have branches (or thorns, as only animals have horns)

You know what I mean. :tongue:

I want branchy horns. Even if they're small.

Gorani
08-08-2011, 22:01
@Gorani: awesome photoshop. And best part is that I can see that being feasible in-game with dyes.

I only took the leaves that cover the head, that sprout from the shoulders and the big one that covers her buds (:grin:) and changed some values with saturation & shifted the hue from green to red. So yes - this would work with a dye system as well IMO.

GrimShade
08-08-2011, 22:01
Huge improvement, now they stand apart from Elves.

Still going to be Human, but I do think I'll work and plant in there somewhere. Maybe a plant warrior with a machette. An Axe Plant warrior! Oh the fun a Fire elly Plant!

Karuro
08-08-2011, 22:03
Hmm....
If I can pick a lightgreen skincolor (Not that Hulk green) and have a plethora of flowers & colors for "hair", I'll be satisfied.

Blazing Liger
08-08-2011, 22:04
I don't want to nit-pick, but there's one little thing that's really bugging me, looking at a couple of those pictures...The way some of the sprouting leaves (I'm assuming these are parts of armor) do not match the skin color of the sylvari. Maybe it's the OCD talking, but would it be possible for the bases of the stems to blend in to the sylvari's skin tone? Because the leaves look very pasted-on as is. :sealed:

Giggles
08-08-2011, 22:07
hpiIWMWWVco

GrimShade
08-08-2011, 22:08
yup too much OCD going on there, the extra colors allow more customisation to the 'outfit' and some plants are just that crazy.

Plus the Borg look is a huge plus not a bad thing.

Going to need a flaming sword to go trim the hedges in Sylvariland!

I wonder what happens to a Sylvari that goes underwater. Do they puff up and get waterloged? Do they get gills or do root spring out of their .....

kronez
08-08-2011, 22:14
Now if they only did this with the Asuran......

What do you mean? They did. I hear a redesign will be done when the asura week's done. Probably why we havn't seen them yet.

GrimShade
08-08-2011, 22:16
What do you mean? They did. I hear a redesign will be done when the asura week's done. Probably why we havn't seen them yet.

Great redesigend to be more rabbitty. bigger floppy ears, back legs more hoppity! Yay a rabid redisign!

Giggles
08-08-2011, 22:21
What do you mean? They did. I hear a redesign will be done when the asura week's done. Probably why we havn't seen them yet.

News to me. I hope that's true. All the shots I've seen of them so far have felt really out of place. They look like they're coming out of a chibi anime cartoon that' doesn't fit with the rest of the game. The GW1 guys looked okay though (I still hate them :laugh:)

Gorani
08-08-2011, 22:22
Going to need a flaming sword to go trim the hedges in Sylvariland!


Oh the fun a Fire elly Plant!

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8259/sylvarionfire.jpg

They will be hard to burn I guess. :laugh:

Sir Jack
08-08-2011, 22:27
I think I can just about roll a Guardians of the Galaxy team...

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8296/93842716.jpg

GrimShade
08-08-2011, 22:28
is that what happened after throwing one fireball? must be careful not to burn the whole tree down!

Gorani
08-08-2011, 22:38
After taking a closer look at the pictures I might have spot a design option:

The "Sylvari Anatomy" picture shows the basic layer of "skin" of the Sylvari. If you take a closer look at the other in-game renders, you can see that the "leaves" around the shoulders always look the same. The two "winter browns" as well as the "spring greens". Just the "Parfum" one looks more like human skin. The leaves around the shoulder either are a way to modify the upper body (as well as the "branchy brown" male in the middle or (what I think is more likely in the Parfum pic) an accessory of her pedal armour.

Skyy High
08-08-2011, 22:44
I like the design, I just hope it'll be enough to make even people who don't know / care about lore realize that these aren't "just another elf".

the ettins kiss
08-08-2011, 23:14
OMG ANET, you sure put a dent into my plans to make human only characters.....
Those Sylvari simply look to awesome to neglect. Sylvari surpassed my expectations by a million miles. TY for awesome artwork!

shawn
08-08-2011, 23:14
In particular, if Sylvari are going to get their own race-specific armors, how are those going to work with the dye system?

I'm pretty sure they all have race specific armor. The previous race weeks have shown all the races in unique and distinct armors.

http://www.arena.net/blog/the-artistic-origin-of-the-charr

http://www.arena.net/blog/norn-week-designing-and-redesigning-events

http://www.arena.net/blog/designing-humans

Amlin
08-08-2011, 23:17
Anet surprises me again with their creativity and vision.

Alaris
08-08-2011, 23:25
I can see a lot of the same materials and even patterns being used for all races except Sylvari. Of course, there will be differences... but they can all for example wear leather or chainmail, even if norn wears less of it or charr has horns protruding.

Sylvari however apparently does not look like "dryad in leather" or "dryad in chainmail", but more like "dryad in leaves & bark" which is pretty cool. And not like wearing those, but rather sprouting those.

shawn
08-08-2011, 23:34
The armors are like plants in a pot. To switch them out they just uproot the plant-armor, and re-pot the new one.

And then feed it with water and miracle grow.

Giggles
08-08-2011, 23:42
Wth? Are they chia pets now?

Gorani
08-08-2011, 23:50
For those using König's or Shewmaker's character template on the GW2 wiki, I made a new Sylvari background (800x600) that "removes" the pointy ear "Elves" we had before (although I guess ArenaNet will update those wallpapers as well during the week).


http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/c/cc/User_Gorani_SylvariBG.jpg

shawn
09-08-2011, 00:00
Wth? Are they chia pets now?

Not a bad idea. If your char is bald, you can just get some chia pet seeds and slap them on your head. And if you find some garden shears off a drop, you can get a new hairstyle.

Bilbo Baggins
09-08-2011, 00:20
Well, I have to admit, I liked the original design....

I'm so glad that many of you didn't! Wow, the sylvari are amazing! They definitely feel unique, no elf with leaves or dryad with hair, but a real "new" race. Thanks Kristen and all your crew for an incredible redesign!

Guildoholic
09-08-2011, 00:31
That's a very unique race now. Looks like I'm going to be making 1 of each race for sure.

Egal
09-08-2011, 00:49
The sylvari have been rescued. From toy catalogue dress-up dolls for little girls, they've been completely remodeled into something that a grown man wouldn't be embarrassed to play. A lot more convincing as plant critters. Love that you can now also create a more "rugged" appearance. Experimenting with different looks should be fun and I can imagine there'll be the opportunity for nearly everyone to get something they really like out of it.

Really nice, well thought out work.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 00:53
The old design wasn't bad, but the new one is much improved.

RD
09-08-2011, 00:54
See, I thought "Eewww" when I saw the new design. Looks like an EQ2 model to me.

But I wasn't planning on playing one, anyway, so /shrug

djacob
09-08-2011, 01:07
Hmm, I was looking forward to this, expecting it to be great... and I'm still surprised by just how good it looks. I'm not sure I'll even be able to just make one. There is so much customization, and I actually want a male character now too.

The weak looking males from before were not something I'm interested in making, if I make a male character they need to look tough, funny, or have a quirk to them that fits with my role playing needs. For example, in gw1 the male dervish looked tough and the male ele with white hair allowed me to role play a character from a series of books I've enjoyed, the name of the character is Fizban (or Zifnab depending on which series you read). As for silly, I can't think of any examples in gw1.

The females are looking even better than before so I'll continue along my planned route for them, definitely going to have a necro one with the fall/winter option. Btw, is that a venus fly trap in the fifth picture (not including the banner)? I'm liking the idea that exotic plants are being used and not just merely leaves. I'm definitely looking forward to more.

Oh yeah, and for everyone interested, found a funny little link while looking for venus fly trap info. Vegan Venus Fly Traps (http://petevincent.typepad.com/rawhumourblog/2011/02/venus-fly-traps-are-latest-targets-of-vegan-plant-movement.html). It makes me wonder, could the nightmare scenario mentioned at the end of that article be coming true in gw2? Guess we'll find out when it comes out, if there are a lot more sylvari than humans, I'm definitely going to consider it a possibility.

Fluffball
09-08-2011, 01:13
Kudos to Anet for letting someone be this creative and cerebral. A lot of companies wouldn't. The results are pretty amazing.

I can't find a thumbs up icon (didn't we used to have one?) so I'll just pick one randomly. :french:

Karuro
09-08-2011, 01:39
Wasn't it so that all races have their own armor, but professions can still wear each others stuff as long as it is within their "class" (Scholars, Adventurers, Soldiers)?
Like a Charr in Sylvari armor.
(Oh god, poor cat stuck in a tree trunk)

GrimShade
09-08-2011, 01:44
Wasn't it so that all races have their own armor, but professions can still wear each others stuff as long as it is within their "class" (Scholars, Adventurers, Soldiers)?
Like a Charr in Sylvari armor.
(Oh god, poor cat stuck in a tree trunk)

It seems that all races have their own armor but it also seems that some armors are good for all races.

These look like the same type of set but for different races.
http://www.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/screenshots/warrior/gw2-warrior-003.jpg
http://www.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/screenshots/guardian/guardian01.jpg

So just to confuse you more, some armors are specific, some are global some are just there for fun!

Sir Jack
09-08-2011, 02:01
Personally, I'd like the next couple of infoposts to have a few more "Winter" skins. Most screens show the summer-variety. I'm more a fan of the bark-look instead of the flashy green and leaves look. Could be because I'm more a winter-type myself.

GrimShade
09-08-2011, 02:10
Personally, I'd like the next couple of infoposts to have a few more "Winter" skins. Most screens show the summer-variety. I'm more a fan of the bark-look instead of the flashy green and leaves look. Could be because I'm more a winter-type myself.

No it's because the brown skins look more 'human' than the green giant colored skin

It's a subconcious thing...

Alaris
09-08-2011, 02:23
I think that just like weapons, which armors can be worn by what races will depend heavily on what works lore-wise and aesthetics-wise... especially aesthetics. Sylvari aren't just unique, but because of their physiology they can't easily just put on clothes. Other races can put on clothes more easily (though charr might have to put more effort to put all the horns in their respective holes).

Sir Jack
09-08-2011, 02:24
No it's because the brown skins look more 'human' than the green giant colored skin

It's a subconcious thing...

Also possible. I prefer my non-racist explanation though. :tongue:

No, I'm just not a fan of bright colours. Besides, not a lot of a more human look when you have branches growing on your chin, eyebrows and hair.

I wonder what a 'stash is going to look like.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 02:38
Probably gonna go with non-glow green. I like green. But not the glowy ones.

gildhur
09-08-2011, 02:48
I'm pretty sure they all have race specific armor. The previous race weeks have shown all the races in unique and distinct armors.

http://www.arena.net/blog/the-artistic-origin-of-the-charr

http://www.arena.net/blog/norn-week-designing-and-redesigning-events

http://www.arena.net/blog/designing-humans
This was my main question after this Sylvari update, and your references here, while greatly appreciated, only further expand the question instead of answering it. Are all armors race specific? Can any race where the armor of any other race? Will transmutation stones be able to port, say, a Sylvari or Asura armor piece onto a Charr character? Or are we forced to only wear styles designed for our own race? And if we can mix and match, how do non-Sylvari pieces look on Sylvari (or Charr, I suppose) with their non-human protruding features?

Alaris
09-08-2011, 03:00
How does the HoM pieces fit a sylvari?

Zayren
09-08-2011, 03:42
Never stop screaming

cosyfiep
09-08-2011, 04:48
well, if nothing else when the beta comes out I will have a good time making tons of these guys!!( though I think I know that 2nd one in the OP picture--think I dated him at one time----)

MisterB
09-08-2011, 05:20
Eric Flannum posted about Sylvari armors over on GW2Guru, and his comment is relevant to this discussion. Unless I'm mistaken, that means Sylvari can wear common armors just like every other race. So Sylvari can probably wear leather, chain mail, plate, etc.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=836054&postcount=434

gildhur
09-08-2011, 06:21
Eric Flannum posted about Sylvari armors over on GW2Guru, and his comment is relevant to this discussion. Unless I'm mistaken, that means Sylvari can wear common armors just like every other race. So Sylvari can probably wear leather, chain mail, plate, etc.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=836054&postcount=434

Nope. Every race has several sets of armor that are restricted to that race. The armor in the pictures is some of the sylvari racial armor. If you want you can wear "normal" armor that looks good on every race.
Ahhhhhh. That makes sense. Thanks for the link! :thumbsup:

Alaris
09-08-2011, 07:11
Thanks for the link.

Ok, well that answers a few questions. Looking forward to seeing more armor art.

Смерть
09-08-2011, 07:16
Brilliant!

Really, that is all I feel like saying; give that artist a raise!

The plant muscle anatomy blew me away.

Tru Reptile
09-08-2011, 07:30
I really had no intention of rolling a Sylvari before, but now I do. Now they look like plant people rather than Elves in plant clothes.

Am I the only one geeking out over the fact that the in-game model of Caithe looks identical to the concept art? That's pretty difficult to accomplish.

Excellent redesign!

D E A T H L I F E
09-08-2011, 09:25
Superb redesign!!!

So now I'm super confused on my main .... Human Mesmer (IF), Norn Ele or Sylvari Necro ..... Decisions decisions!!!

Khanisaurus
09-08-2011, 09:51
I know I am late to the party, but wow. That blew me away. I already had a name saved for an alt, but it could end up being my main.

Miss Perry did an absolutely phenomenal job on this redesign.

BladeDVD
09-08-2011, 10:19
Is it just me or does the guy in the lower right corner remind anyone else of Greedo from Star Wars?

http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/SylvariMales-600x219.jpg

The females look a lot better, but I'm going to withhold a final opinion until I see some videos. So far it sounds like I'm in the (very small) minority that liked them when they looked like wood elves/dryads.

The article was great though, and the detail and thought that went into the redesign certainly resulted in a unique design. Just not really to my taste so far though.

I was really looking forward to making my first character a Sylvari too, but kind of on the fence now.

sorudo
09-08-2011, 11:44
i really love the design, it's exactly what we need to break from the tunnel vision MMO's have these day's.
i think that i will make an elementalist sylvari and go for earth magic, just what i always wanted.

btw, it would rock if they sell this as a buster miniature
http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ParfumSide.jpg

raspberry jam
09-08-2011, 11:51
Never stop screamingI didn't plan to.

Anyway, new design looks good I think, less like plant elves, more like living plants.

Nightfall Crescent
09-08-2011, 14:06
Unless I'm mistaken, that means Sylvari can wear common armors just like every other race. So Sylvari can probably wear leather, chain mail, plate, etc.


I hope that's correct. I'm worried about the armor as well. The plant armor looks great. But I fear it's something you can get tired of really quick.

If I remember correctly, they stated that profession specific armor was out because they don't want to force players into a certain look based on class. For a minute there I was worried they might force us into a style based on race. That would be a little stupid...

Giggles
09-08-2011, 14:17
What I like about the redesign it that there's a strong design sense running though all the characters they've shown. The org design was more or less all over the place. The only thing that tied them together was the flowery / leafy clothing and pointy ears. Now there's a real strong flow going on that ties the race together. It's much, much stronger.

raspberry jam
09-08-2011, 14:39
I hope that's correct. I'm worried about the armor as well. The plant armor looks great. But I fear it's something you can get tired of really quick. Yeah, plant-based armor looks like something that sharp objects (axes, hedge trimmers) could cut into rather easily, not to mention what fire magic could do to it.

Nightfall Crescent
09-08-2011, 16:07
Well. Last night I saw a nature documentary about life in the South-American grass plains. They talked about trees with a special cork layer that protected them from annual fires. The trees could literally survive being burnt. So don't underestimate the plants when it comes to fire :D


On a whole I'm happy with this. My first reaction at the first picture was "wow that's a bit too green" But then I saw the rest I think they will work just fine. I imagine we'll be able to set skintone anyway (so we can avoid the nuclear-glow-green :p) and together with the seasons-concept that will make a large variety of options.

Then again I didn't mind the old design that much. In my opinion the only thing wrong with the old design was the ridiculous oversized hair they had.

Something I noticed though.
"The sylvari description was pared down to just three words: noble, beautiful, plant"
What happend to "young"? That was the characteristic I was most looking forward to. A newly (well +/-200years is pretty new) born race in a world they don't know? That sounds like an interesting start for great tales.
I'm sure it's still there. They look "young". It's just strange that it wasn't mentioned.

raspberry jam
09-08-2011, 16:20
Well. Last night I saw a nature documentary about life in the South-American grass plains. They talked about trees with a special cork layer that protected them from annual fires. The trees could literally survive being burnt. So don't underestimate the plants when it comes to fire :DWell that's true. There are even plants that depend on fire for their seeds to grow or something like that, I think.

Anyway, I agree on the "young" thing, but then again I'm confused about the how a race that's been around for 25ish years (right?) can already have a societal structure complex enough to even have a concept of what it would be to be "noble".

sorudo
09-08-2011, 16:26
there is one thing i wonder tho, what about wearing sylvari clothing on a non-sylvari character?

Xilisys
09-08-2011, 16:33
Well, I was originally planning on making a Norn Ranger for my main and Sylvari Necro as my first alt.

Now...I may have to make a Sylvari Ranger for my main as well...and a Sylvari Elementalist...and Necro...and Guardian...and...

Curse you Anet for making me want to play every class and every race first. :angry: :rolleyes:

Alaris
09-08-2011, 16:36
I'm confused about the how a race that's been around for 25ish years (right?) can already have a societal structure complex enough to even have a concept of what it would be to be "noble".

They absorbed it from the tablets, which were made out of plant food, which in retrospect might have been a better idea than that centaur got credited for.

Tyris Requiem
09-08-2011, 16:47
The new Sylvari look Great. Its a massive improvement on the earlier iterations which looked more like humans with plant decorations.

BrettM
09-08-2011, 16:54
Now they need to remake the Races of Tyria video using the new design for Caithe.

Soulstorm
09-08-2011, 17:54
What I like about the redesign it that there's a strong design sense running though all the characters they've shown. The org design was more or less all over the place. The only thing that tied them together was the flowery / leafy clothing and pointy ears. Now there's a real strong flow going on that ties the race together. It's much, much stronger.

I agree with this; the "old" sylvari had an unfinished look to them, and this is absolutely an improvement.
Also, I do really admire the work an artist does from concept to implementation.

...But I just... Well...

...Sorry, but these are Elves Made of Plants.

I know it was a vain hope, but I would have liked to see something more... outrageous; something really out there.
Something that doesn't feel like the artist was stopped halfway through and told to make something more immediately "sellable", that is to say: more slender girls, less treants.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 18:14
I understand the frustration, Soulstorm, but I guess this is as good as it gets... which imo is already pretty good. I was expecting elves or dryads, now we actually have something made of plants.

I want to see more non-humanoid races in fantasy games, but market pressures are strong.

s4nder
09-08-2011, 18:22
I'm definitely rolling a winter themed Sylvari now. Possibly on all characters.

Leonora Windleaf
09-08-2011, 18:29
Awesome! Now they don't look like "human/elves with leaves" any more, but much more Alien and distinct, yet beautiful and graceful in their own way. The idea of those "growth sockets" is brilliant!

raspberry jam
09-08-2011, 18:35
...Sorry, but these are Elves Made of Plants.Naaa... I really thought the old design looked like elves with plant things tacked on.

The new, though? They don't look like elves anymore. :tongue: They're more like... plant people.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 18:43
Agreed with jam... the old design was "elves wearing plants". Now it's more "plants shaped like elves".

They give me a creepy feeling like mimics.

raspberry jam
09-08-2011, 18:44
They're notttttt elvesssssss :angry:

Alaris
09-08-2011, 18:52
Sorry, and agreed.

"Plants shaped like people"

I wonder if we get a "venus fly-trap blessing" elite:
http://www.manchestereventsguide.co.uk/img/full/pop/little-shop-of-horrors-feature.jpg

djacob
09-08-2011, 18:55
They're notttttt elvesssssss :angry:

But they have elvish ears, are good looking, and are in tune with nature right? So what if they are a young race, not taller than humans (as far as I can tell), are not stuck up, don't live for an extremely long time, are inquisitive, not necessarily good or bad (don't stereotype this race), and are plants that share their knowledge by sharing it with their tree; which births more knowledgeable sylvari in the future instead of learning all the information over a very long period of time like the elves do... yeah, they have pointy ears so they're elves *sighs*.

Soulstorm
09-08-2011, 19:06
Okay. They're slender, nature-aligned, pretty (in a distinctly human aesthetic, no less) people made of plants.

I'm not saying they should have been something like the talking compost heap from Fraggles (though, come to think of it... AWESOME), but can I at least wonder why a race of plants who apparently spring fully formed from pods have two distinct (and conveniently parallel to human) genders, and by extension why the females even have breasts?

-Yeah, I know some plants have male/female genders, but just imagine something more mono-gendered, with more emphasis on seasonal variations and day/night duality in appearances to create visual distinction.

Nemeon Lion
09-08-2011, 19:10
Because their anatomy was created by the Pale Tree in honor of its caretaker (who conveniently left some rules). Another possibility is the fact that the humanoid appearence is a way to more easily communicate with the other races.

The last possibility is magic. Magic herp derp.

What I'm trying to say is that trying to come up with arguments about the anatomy is futile. You can bend the lore as much as you want to justify. They aren't just plants. They are plants that came up from a bigger plant that was heavily influenced by humanoid beings, mammal beings to be more specific.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 19:15
Because they want to blend in, and they picked humans to mimic.

raspberry jam
09-08-2011, 19:28
why the females even have breasts?To look appealing to norn and human males, duh.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 19:36
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2218/vegans.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/vegans.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Karuro
09-08-2011, 19:37
why a race of plants who apparently spring fully formed from pods have two distinct (and conveniently parallel to human) genders, and by extension why the females even have breasts?
Because there's a pile of dead humans buried under that tree and the Pale Tree works like a Copy machine with a Magical-Nature-Touch.

And though Sylvari can have sex, newborn Sylvari are still popped out of the tree.
Or Female Sylvari are like those Plantgirls who seduce men and feed on them..

gildhur
09-08-2011, 19:48
-Yeah, I know some plants have male/female genders, but just imagine something more mono-gendered, with more emphasis on seasonal variations and day/night duality in appearances to create visual distinction.
Interesting thought. There are almost no gender neutral MMO races are there? LotRO's Dwarves are the only ones that come to mind. Since Dwarf males and females look completely indistinguishable to non-Dwarves, Turbine completely left off the gender option there. You just play a Dwarf, who is by default referred to as "him" by text output, but can be roleplayed as either gender. I think of all the races, it would make the most sense to take a similar approach to the Sylvari.

Alaris
09-08-2011, 20:10
Gender-neutral are very rare, and having more than two "genders" even more.

However, it's clear that the sylvari are plants that go to great lengths to mimic humans, so I think gender makes sense... even though it might entirely be cosmetic.

Soulstorm
09-08-2011, 20:52
What I'm trying to say is that trying to come up with arguments about the anatomy is futile. You can bend the lore as much as you want to justify. They aren't just plants. They are plants that came up from a bigger plant that was heavily influenced by humanoid beings, mammal beings to be more specific.

So, given creative freedom to think up whatever crazy concept towards a playable race of "sentient plant people", let's make a race of slender, nature-aligned, pretty-to-humans-too Fair Folk with leaves for hair?
AKA, Elves Made of Plants™

-Things can indeed be bent and twisted however you like in a magical setting, and it works both ways.

Nohjo
09-08-2011, 20:53
In rl plants and trees can be male or female in seperated individuals. (Without breasts ofc). I don't know if Sylvari polonate and produce fruids/seeds to procreate, but I think the human look can be attributed to the fact that the Deku.. I mean the Pale Tree was planted on several human graves. (Plus the design has to appeal to human players).

I don't think there is more to it than that.

Sir Jack
09-08-2011, 21:53
New race anounced: Marklar
Genders are Marklar, Marklar, Marklar and Marklar
Optional styles are Marklar, Marklar, Marklar and Marklar
They live in the city of Marklar in the country of Marklar, isolated on the island of Marklar.


Or I can change it all to Smurf if you want a slightly less obscure reference.

Karuro
09-08-2011, 23:28
New race anounced: Marklar
Genders are Marklar, Marklar, Marklar and Marklar
Optional styles are Marklar, Marklar, Marklar and Marklar
They live in the city of Marklar in the country of Marklar, isolated on the island of Marklar.


Or I can change it all to Smurf if you want a slightly less obscure reference.
I'm sure someone out there will now try to turn their Sylvari into a smurf.

Nohjo
09-08-2011, 23:34
New race anounced: Marklar
Genders are Marklar, Marklar, Marklar and Marklar
Optional styles are Marklar, Marklar, Marklar and Marklar
They live in the city of Marklar in the country of Marklar, isolated on the island of Marklar.


Or I can change it all to Smurf if you want a slightly less obscure reference.

But what gender would Smurfette have?

Erasmus
09-08-2011, 23:46
So, given creative freedom to think up whatever crazy concept towards a playable race of "sentient plant people", let's make a race of slender, nature-aligned, pretty-to-humans-too Fair Folk with leaves for hair?
AKA, Elves Made of Plants™

-Things can indeed be bent and twisted however you like in a magical setting, and it works both ways.

I get what you're saying. The redesign is still "too human" and probably missed a lot of opportunity for some crazy plant concepts. But the saying "know your audience" applies here. Judging from the overwhelming positive response from the community, ANET really knows it's audience.

The Sylvari aren't really my style but I like the design and appreciate the research and thinking behind it. And I think the design is pretty creative considering that they still have to make it appeal to a larger audience and still make them convincing humanoid plant creatures. My preference would be something like the Kurzick Juggernaut.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/8/8a/Juggernaut.jpg

shawn
10-08-2011, 01:08
Part two is out:

http://www.arena.net/blog/the-sylvari-soul

Nohjo
10-08-2011, 01:17
wow, I love the noble/brittish accent the Sylvari have. And the grove (at night) looks like the home tree from avatar, with all the bioluminescent plants..

edit: The Sylvari faces resemble the Zora faces from TP imo.

Giggles
10-08-2011, 01:23
need to see the videos tomorrow.

Khanisaurus
10-08-2011, 01:58
I was expecting more Gaelic voices than British.

That disappoints me a little bit, but the storyline for the race still seems unique and different.

Karuro
10-08-2011, 02:17
Well, I hope my Sylvari isn't born in a pod high in the tree..
Falling to your death after being "born" doesn't sound pretty.

gildhur
10-08-2011, 03:49
The male voice in the Arching Boughs clip sounds just like the actor who plays Petyr Baelish in Game of Thrones, Aiden Gillen. :shocked:

Leonora Windleaf
10-08-2011, 04:04
I wonder if they actually hired real British voice actors? I dunno, most of them seemed quite... fake to me. Oh well, it suits them anyhow. It's still a funny combination... I would expect a sylvari to be quite more chaotic and free spirited than having those arguably "human" traits of nobility and honor....

Gorani
10-08-2011, 07:51
I had the time to listen to the Sylvari audio this morning and although the British accents fit, they are not as unique as the lower pitched voices of the Charr e.g. There is not much difference to Humans or the Norn in the examples.

Zayren
10-08-2011, 08:56
I can see it now...

V0UZjuGE7EQ

Смерть
10-08-2011, 09:10
I had the time to listen to the Sylvari audio this morning and although the British accents fit, they are not as unique as the lower pitched voices of the Charr e.g. There is not much difference to Humans or the Norn in the examples.

Anet should have done something crazy like what was done with Treebeard in LOTR; the voice talent inhaled as he spoke to give it that hollow reedy sound (amongst other things). Wish Anet would have tried some "plan(t)ounciation" with the voice actors; I mean, there are tons of things one can do in this "vine" which is totally different from LOTR even.

sorudo
10-08-2011, 09:43
like this?
Sweh2EekM4M

Tom Nook
10-08-2011, 10:34
Why do people refer to an English accent as a British accent? :huh:


Anet should have done something crazy like what was done with Treebeard in LOTR; the voice talent inhaled as he spoke to give it that hollow reedy sound (amongst other things). Wish Anet would have tried some "plan(t)ounciation" with the voice actors; I mean, there are tons of things one can do in this "vine" which is totally different from LOTR even.

As long as they get enough voice actors. Treebeard sounded like Gimli. :smiley:

Gorani
10-08-2011, 11:01
For those who don't like the spring/summer skin tone:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4801/femsylvariws.jpg

Again, just a little playing around with saturation and hue to turn the skin darker and brown. It looks a lot more like the "treeish" look many people want.
The "hair" changes a lot of the over all look and nobody will think "Elves" when he/she sees that picture.

When Kristen Perry has got a little bit more time for more designs, I bet we will have more "branchy hair" too.

raspberry jam
10-08-2011, 11:03
Why do people refer to an English accent as a British accent? :huh:I dunno man, where's the capital of Britain?

Nohjo
10-08-2011, 12:36
The male voice in the Arching Boughs clip sounds just like the actor who plays Petyr Baelish in Game of Thrones, Aiden Gillen. :shocked:

I think so too.


For those who don't like the spring/summer skin tone:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4801/femsylvariws.jpg



I never thought of making a Sylvari, but after seeing this I might. Really looks like a dryad, or tree spirit.

Tom Nook
10-08-2011, 13:27
I dunno man, where's the capital of Britain?

What you did there, I saw it.

Alaris
10-08-2011, 14:08
Do like. I was afraid hearing about british accents, but the accent is done well enough and softly enough that it's not distracting or out of place.

BrettM
10-08-2011, 14:13
Why do people refer to an English accent as a British accent? :huh:
Perhaps to remove any ambiguity between the name of the language and the source of the accent, given that many countries use English as their native language. Not to mention that those of us from outside Britain generally regard the difference between Britain and England as somewhat subtle in casual usage. England has a LOT of regional accents that are similar, to we outsiders, to accents found elsewhere in the British Isles. So, to us, they're all just "British" accents if they aren't easily recognizable as being, say, Scottish or Irish.

sorudo
10-08-2011, 14:32
i dunno about you but i recognize accents pretty well, the only thing i do have problems with is recognizing the difference between certain languages......but that's beside the point.

Leonora Windleaf
10-08-2011, 14:40
Why do people refer to an English accent as a British accent? :huh:

You're right, they don't talk like that in Scotland or Wales. Come to think of it, neither do they talk like that in Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, etc.

Having a sylvari talk with a Scouse or Geordie accent would probably be a bit too much, though.

Feannag
10-08-2011, 14:55
OY! 'OO YOUS CALLIN' A ELF?!

Yep, that'd be a gamebreaker. :tongue:

Alaris
10-08-2011, 14:57
Now I want the norn to have a scottish accent.

Akirai Annuvil
10-08-2011, 15:24
(1) Like the redesign. Much better.
(2) Agreed with Soulstorm; they're Elves Made Out Of Plants.
(3) I can live with (2).
--
(a) I can live with the accent.

Simply Kedde
10-08-2011, 15:25
You're right, they don't talk like that in Scotland or Wales. Come to think of it, neither do they talk like that in Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, etc.

Having a sylvari talk with a Scouse or Geordie accent would probably be a bit too much, though.

I would so laugh if I met the combo of a tree thing with a scouse accent :grin:
Holy hell, I hope they make at least one.

Giggles
10-08-2011, 15:32
Having a sylvari talk with a Scouse or Geordie accent would probably be a bit too much, though.

That would be a real hoot and a half.

gildhur
10-08-2011, 17:56
Video out!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/10/guild-wars-2-video-talks-sylvari-background-and-design/

c9o31CoaalU

BrettM
10-08-2011, 18:43
i dunno about you but i recognize accents pretty well
Do you really know the locality associated with each and every accent in the British Isles? I don't think that's very common among English speakers worldwide. One might be able to hear a difference between two accents without having any idea that, say, one speaker is from Devon and the other is from the Isle of Man. (I'm just guessing those two accents would be different. If they aren't, substitute your own example.) If you don't know specifically where the speakers are from and have no previous experience with either accent, then the best you can do is classify both accents as "British".

Furthermore, accents are not great respecters of arbitrary political boundaries. Does the accent necessarily vary that much between people living close to one side of a border and those on the other? I doubt that's the general case. Two locals shouting across the border between England and Wales probably sound pretty similar. So, are both speaking English with a Welsh accent or are both speaking English with an English accent? Or can we just call it one of the British accents?

Of course, the accent most commonly identified as "British" is "BBC English". But, I believe some have claimed that this accent is also native to several places in the British Isles, including parts of Wales. So, is the accent truly "English" or is it more generally "British"?

Honestly, I can't see why anybody has any reason to object to the term "British accent". Whose ox(ford) is being gored by this?

Beren Iluthiel
10-08-2011, 18:46
Dear Arenanet, here is my wallet.
And my bank's account information.
And my liver, if you need it in any case.
I've already sold my soul to the devil, but after having seen this, I think we can find a soluton.
Thank you, what else to say.....

Смерть
10-08-2011, 19:31
As long as they get enough voice actors. Treebeard sounded like Gimli. :smiley:

Lol, yup, same guy.
...

Nice vid today, look forward to tomorrow vid!

Gorani
10-08-2011, 19:49
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1256/sylvarividgroup.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/sylvarividgroup.jpg/)

A compilation of the in-game Sylvari (no renders from the video included)

I know they need a little bit variety, but the blue ones look odd to me. The Grove also looks very "Avatarish" at first glance.

GrimShade
10-08-2011, 20:03
Is Ree hot or what!!

oh ya nice video too...

Смерть
10-08-2011, 20:06
I like the blue ones :tongue:. My favorite out of these pictures is the first one on top and the third one from the left on the bottom. I am really interested in seeing the customization options come Games Com.

I wonder if bark or leaf are more prone to the Court of Nightmares or not (probably mixed)?

In any case, I am hoping for some wicked Autumn/Winter wear for my necromancer; the more decomposition the better!

Larqh
10-08-2011, 20:06
*makes grabby hands* All of my previous gripes about GW2 are forgotten. Do want. When ANet, WHEN?

Alaris
10-08-2011, 20:09
I prefer the 7th one. I do like the feminine ones better, though the male ones are nice too for a change. I do prefer less human, more alien.

djacob
10-08-2011, 20:39
Thanks for the pics, I'm at work so I'm not watching the video yet. Definitely liking the first and seventh the most. The others are good too of course, just probably not something I'd want as my own character. CMEPTb, it's funny how close our reactions to the sylvari are. Although I must admit, while I'm thinking of fall/winter for my sylvari necro, I'm hoping for less of a decomposed look and more of a scary/gloomy look. Think the seventh picture but with red eyes and the venus fly trap armor, possibly with some kind of black/deep red leaves for hair, something similar to that.

EDIT: Aww, that video was indeed too short. Very nice though. Echoed my sentiments on how sylvari are not elves or really anything but sylvari. Oh, I just thought of an analogy, it's like comparing Gandalf with Harry Potty. They're both wizards right, so they must be the same thing! Except one is old and one is young, one is tall and the other is short... oh, and basically their entire attitude about the world are different.

Nohjo
11-08-2011, 00:44
Im beginning to like them more and more. Especially their eyes are beautiful. I do think however that the males look too.. Childish maybe.. Too soft or weak. The females look elegant and sexy, while most sylvari males look weak.

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 00:48
I get tears in my eyes when I watch this video, they are so dedicated to making this game for us. It's going to be awesome! :happy:

RD
11-08-2011, 01:20
Blue one is the only one I like lol Is #2 Caithe?

Weird. Does anyone else feel like the Sylvari armor is SO MUCH DIFFERENT than all the other races'? I mean, from those pictures, it basically just looks like leaves.


I get tears in my eyes when I watch this video, they are so dedicated to making this game for us. It's going to be awesome! :happy:

QFT!

Bilbo Baggins
11-08-2011, 01:22
(1) Like the redesign. Much better.
(2) Agreed with Soulstorm; they're Elves Made Out Of Plants.
(3) I can live with (2).
--
(a) I can live with the accent.

Gotta disagree with #2, I've never seen elves with branches for hair and bark for skin. But I wholeheartedly agree with #3, whatever you want to call them, I love the redesign and will definitely be rolling one (or more).

P.S. Just with the photoshopping some of you have done, it's quite obvious you can get a pretty otherworldly look to them. I'm really looking forward to seeing just how unique and "nonhuman" I can push those customization sliders. Definitely going with more Fall and Winter colors.

RD
11-08-2011, 01:25
One thing I do want to say after watching the video...

While I'm honestly not that crazy about the new models personally... I get it. I get why they did it, I think it is a good change, a change that makes sense. Just not a style for me. But I wasn't going to play one anyway :)

Giggles
11-08-2011, 01:39
Hey, do you think the boss when you create a new character will be a blender or some other kind of food processor? Perhaps even a juicer.

Karuro
11-08-2011, 02:28
Is #2 Caithe?

Yes.

#1's my favorite, 5 & 7 look nice too.
3 goes more alien and 4 just creeps me out.
Wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley of Divinity's Reach.

gildhur
11-08-2011, 03:17
Weird. Does anyone else feel like the Sylvari armor is SO MUCH DIFFERENT than all the other races'? I mean, from those pictures, it basically just looks like leaves.
You have seen the charr, right? lol. Bipedal cats with horns. I don't think "different" is particularly shocking at this point. :laughing:

Gorani
11-08-2011, 10:05
I've just listened to the Massively Podcast featured at the front page and I don't agree with Rubi's torment on the voice acting.

OK, the British accents might be a "cheap way" to make them sound noble and there could be other possibilities to sound special, but...

1) ... will distorted voices (like the one they used for the Ents in LotR) be audible enough in game? Will you understand them when there are many sound files playing?

2) Can you translate/transport that to all the localizations of GW2? Take German e.g.: Sylvari should speak like folks from lower saxony? Norn like Bavarians?
I personally wished they sound more otherworldly, too - but I think there are limits in practical design.

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 10:11
I don't think British accents sound very noble. Nobility is conveyed more in tonality than in accent.


localizationI don't want to be an *** but how hard is it to learn English, really. I mean, at the basic comprehension level, it's the by far easiest Indoeuropean language.

sorudo
11-08-2011, 10:22
you can see what country finds english easy by looking at the country who sub series VS the ones who dub it.

Gorani
11-08-2011, 10:22
I don't want to be an *** but how hard is it to learn English, really. I mean, at the basic comprehension level, it's the by far easiest Indoeuropean language.

:shocked:
Number one candidate for best argument of the day.

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 10:30
you can see what country finds english easy by looking at the country who sub series VS the ones who dub it.Not really, a Frenchman have an easier time learning English than a Chinese guy have, yet France dubs while China subs. :tongue:


:shocked:
Number one candidate for best argument of the day.I know, right? Besides, not knowing English in this day and age? Do these people not use the internet or what?

Смерть
11-08-2011, 10:36
1) ... will distorted voices (like the one they used for the Ents in LotR) be audible enough in game? Will you understand them when there are many sound files playing?

Clarity definitely is a primary issue, but there are enhancements to the voice that could still make them "plantish" in my opinion without making them inaudible. I am going to assume all the voice work has been recorded; if they did decide to make the voices sound more "plantish"...

The way I would re-construct a vocal line, would be to match (from a database of natural sounds) samples close to sounds found in the English language; i.e. the "ch" in "bach" could be enhanced with the breaking of bark (a crass example, mind you would have to be very subtle in the task). Hell, if one wanted to go all out, there could be two separate Sylvari dialects, one for the "plant" Sylvari (a mild speech), and one for the "bark" Sylvari (more aggressive tone).

Of course not every syllable would be enhanced (or could they with vocals already recorded; would, to a good degree already dictate what syllables could even be enhanced, if at all in some cases) or it would probably be inaudible; but a subtle application would really make their speech stand out from the rest imo; less is more. It would depend on how what is being said, to determine whether the enhancement should be on the attack, decay, sustain, or release. I think I would clearly understand, "Where is bach?", if an enhancement slightly lifted the "Wh(e)re" and accented the "ba(ch)".

Enhancing hard consonants would surely give them a "tribal" feel (I forget the name of an African tribe (if they are even African) who uses "clicks" and other sounds in speech). For the Sylvari, wind going through a hollow reed, for example could enhance open sounds (i.e., "who"), etc.

Though we come down to practicality; the vocals more than not have already been mostly recorded and mastered; adding such sounds would take a lot more work (taking a step back to original files); then you have the big problem if you wanted to provide the vocals in other languages (it could still work, but you have to reconstruct the natural sounds to best fit each dialect; which would take forever); and all this with the many movie hours they have of Sylvari script.

A program could maybe be written to automatically add stuff, but it would have to work damn good (it would probably sound robotic...); the subtlety of a human crafting each natural sounds with its English language counterpart imo would be the best approach in pulling the effect off; yeah probably be the only way to go, because then you take into account the emotional tone of the voice, etc.

Simply Kedde
11-08-2011, 12:26
Localization should seriously stay on a purely text based level, otherwise it'd take way too many ressources away from actual progress with the game.

Gorani
11-08-2011, 12:38
Localization should seriously stay on a purely text based level, otherwise it'd take way too many ressources away from actual progress with the game.

You are aware that GW 1 had full audio localization for German, French, Italian, Spanish & Korean, right?

No matter how you all feel about everybody should understand and speak proper English, there is no way ArenaNet/NCSoft will compensate for losing money in GW2 sales, when they don't supply localized versions.

Martin Kerstein answered a question about German voice actors in an interview with Rush (IIRC) a few weeks back and somebody talked about the Spanish version on the ComicCon panel. So they are in.

sorudo
11-08-2011, 12:42
i just hope they are gonna add japanese :laugh:

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 12:46
Martin Kerstein answered a question about German voice actors in an interview with Rush (IIRC) a few weeks back and somebody talked about the Spanish version on the ComicCon panel. So they are in.Don't this make you feel a bit ashamed? It does to me.

EnoughAlready
11-08-2011, 13:13
You are aware that GW 1 had full audio localization for German, French, Italian, Spanish & Korean, right?

I wish they would localise into proper English :tongue:

Prince Rurick, would you like some tea cake?
Certainly Mhenlo, after Devona and I are done spanking these blasted char though old chap!

Akirai Annuvil
11-08-2011, 13:33
c9o31CoaalU
I both like Ree Soesbee and the new redesign but on a matter of accuracy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/monsters/1024/jabe.jpg
The look and image of noble, beautiful, plant has been done before, just never as extensively.

I don't want to be an *** but how hard is it to learn English, really.Not very, if you begin young and are European/American (North and South). If you're not both, you're pretty much screwed. That's why you want to localize.
Profit is the other reason you want to localize. Plenty of people who can't be bothered to learn English but who can be bothered to pay you.

Though, you already know this and are just *****ing to be an ***.

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 13:57
Not very, if you begin young and are European/American (North and South). If you're not both, you're pretty much screwed. That's why you want to localize.
Profit is the other reason you want to localize. Plenty of people who can't be bothered to learn English but who can be bothered to pay you.

Though, you already know this and are just *****ing to be an ***.No, I don't know that. What I do know is that a native Persian speaker learns English easier than Arabic. English is ****ing magical when it comes to learning enough for a basic understanding, there is no excuse for anyone to not get that far, unless you have some disability that prevents you from learning it.

What I do know is that people are lazy as **** and, as you say, can't arse themselves into learning the world's most used (and most useful) language. No, that there are idiots in the world is not a new thing to me. It is the extent of their idiocy that makes me feel ashamed.

These bad excuses for humanity have the audacity to actually live a normal life while still being utterly unable to receive simple communication. I mean, they can speak their gibberish to each other (I do the same, for that matter), but not even being willing to learn proper human speech? I'm not even talking about being able to set up a sentence of your own here, but they can't even bother to learn enough to understand something that someone else tells them? They don't realize that before pretending to be worthy of playing games or even owning a computer, they should have the basic decency to learn something other than their babble of their local province?

But that is the nature of the world, and that is why I feel ashamed of being of the same species as these scum.

YES I MAD AS **** AT LOCALIZATION :angry:

Giggles
11-08-2011, 14:02
what about sanskrit!

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 14:24
what about sanskrit!Sanskrit is not very easy to learn lol. :tongue:

On that topic though, there is a text adventure in Esperanto...

Simply Kedde
11-08-2011, 14:30
Please pray tell me why localization of the subs isn't enough?
You get localized manuals to explain the game to you, and subtitles of every single sentence spoken. It should by far be enough to make the experience the exact same as if you knew english. The ressources spent on getting voice actors for 30 different languages are much better spent polishing the game, a proper PR job, tournaments and support.

I've never heard anyone say "I'm not going to play this game because they don't speak german with a bavarian accent". I mean really? If you don't understand them speaking but can read it, what difference does it make?
Apart from that, the translations are almost never going to be anywhere near as good as the in the original language. Details and nuances are lost in the translations and often times expressions, irony, sarcasm etc. don't ****ing translate properly at all.

raspberry jam
11-08-2011, 14:32
Thank you Kedde at least you understand me :cry:

Alaris
11-08-2011, 15:12
To those who say "plant elves", I say you lack imagination, fantasy education, or both. If I had to describe sylvari to someone who doesn't know who Tolkien is, "plant elves" might be a good description. But for anyone who plays fantasy or knows some fantasy, I'd think you can come up with much better name tags. Dryad. Slender plant humanoid. Plant that mimics human form. Elves just don't do them justice.

Leaf armors are race-unique armors, and I think they are really REALLY cool. I mean, my sylvari will be wearing those. Kinda bored with the "humanoid in normal clothes but with a weird head" we've been given as a races in most games and TV shows.


The look and image of noble, beautiful, plant has been done before, just never as extensively.

Star Trek has a copyright on every single race possible.


The ressources spent on getting voice actors for 30 different languages are much better spent polishing the game, a proper PR job, tournaments and support. (...)
Details and nuances are lost in the translations and often times expressions, irony, sarcasm etc.

Agreed.

Giggles
11-08-2011, 15:20
Sanskrit is not very easy to learn lol.

how do you know? have you tried?

I bet Bioware is going to be having fun localizing TOR

Thalanor Thornhale
11-08-2011, 15:57
The link for today's video has surfaced:

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-sylvari-video.html

I haven't put it up on the news yet because although the link has surfaced, currently it does not work. I'll wait for the link to work before posting this on the main news site, but I thought I would share this with you still :-)

djacob
11-08-2011, 16:24
No, I don't know that. What I do know is that a native Persian speaker learns English easier than Arabic. English is ****ing magical when it comes to learning enough for a basic understanding, there is no excuse for anyone to not get that far, unless you have some disability that prevents you from learning it.

What I do know is that people are lazy as **** and, as you say, can't arse themselves into learning the world's most used (and most useful) language. No, that there are idiots in the world is not a new thing to me. It is the extent of their idiocy that makes me feel ashamed.

These bad excuses for humanity have the audacity to actually live a normal life while still being utterly unable to receive simple communication. I mean, they can speak their gibberish to each other (I do the same, for that matter), but not even being willing to learn proper human speech? I'm not even talking about being able to set up a sentence of your own here, but they can't even bother to learn enough to understand something that someone else tells them? They don't realize that before pretending to be worthy of playing games or even owning a computer, they should have the basic decency to learn something other than their babble of their local province?

But that is the nature of the world, and that is why I feel ashamed of being of the same species as these scum.

YES I MAD AS **** AT LOCALIZATION :angry:

You know what I'm ashamed of? Being of the same species as someone who can let off a rant like that on such a subject. It isn't the first time I've seen that either, which is why I knew to go look up actual numbers.

1. Mandarin Chinese - 882 million
2. Spanish - 325 million
3. English - 312-380 million
4. Arabic - 206-422 million
5. Hindi - 181 million
6. Portuguese - 178 million
7. Bengali - 173 million
8. Russian - 146 million
9. Japanese - 128 million
10. German - 96 million

By your reckoning we should all go learn Chinese (or Spanish if you don't count Chinese due to the fact they're all in the same place or something).

Btw, Spanish is early to learn as well :shocked:, though I haven't retained all that much from my school days I don't remember it being fairly easy.

shawn
11-08-2011, 16:33
I both like Ree Soesbee and the new redesign but on a matter of accuracy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/monsters/1024/jabe.jpg

What does a girl with a huge cannabis bud on her head have to do with anything?

Silverfrost
11-08-2011, 18:06
By your reckoning we should all go learn Chinese (or Spanish if you don't count Chinese due to the fact they're all in the same place or something).

I wouldn't say "most used/useful" necessarily means "largest number of users", it's more a matter of location. Chinese is, as you say, concentrated to parts of a single, pretty isolated nation. Spanish is mostly used in parts of South America(?).

English is spoken in pretty much every part of the world.

As Wikipedia says:

Total speakers: 500 million as first or second language

Overall first or second language: 500 million–1.8 billion

(Disclaimer: not saying anything about localization here.)

Sir Jack
11-08-2011, 18:23
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/


The Sylvari page updated.



I must say I'm not impressed by the quality of the grass in the video...

Gorani
11-08-2011, 18:36
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/
The Sylvari page updated.

I must say I'm not impressed by the quality of the grass in the video...

All giant leaves and luminescent stuff. So many secondary colours! That leaves the impression of very little contrast and I kind of miss the "raw" stuff we have seen in the Tarnished Coast in GW1 (like large ravines, waterfalls, huge rocks, caves etc.). But perhaps we will see that outside the Grove. Divinity's Reach and the other "starter cities" offered a little bit more diversity, at least to the (or my) eye.

Leonora Windleaf
11-08-2011, 19:23
Really love the music in that last video... much more symphonic than GW1... just beautiful.

s4nder
11-08-2011, 19:35
I really don't get the "honor" and "noble" aspects of sylvari. Both imply tradition and long history, the opposite of what sylvari are about.

Leonora Windleaf
11-08-2011, 19:41
I really don't get the "honor" and "noble" aspects of sylvari. Both imply tradition and long history, the opposite of what sylvari are about.

I think those are aspects that were imbued to them by both Ventari and Ronan... and they just kinda took it over from there.

Alaris
11-08-2011, 19:50
Honor to me is a way of life.

Nobility was granted to the Sylvari because they were born from the tree queen. I guess.

Смерть
11-08-2011, 19:54
Interesting video; lol'd at showing the Sylvari gathering resources "attending their garden"; will have to wait until GamesCom to see some brutality.

Looking up at the plant that reaches into the sky at the end (the Pale Tree?); reminds me of the same effect in Aion with the crystals (starter area of the cooler hoofed race :).

BrettM
11-08-2011, 19:56
All giant leaves and luminescent stuff. So many secondary colours! That leaves the impression of very little contrast and I kind of miss the "raw" stuff we have seen in the Tarnished Coast in GW1 (like large ravines, waterfalls, huge rocks, caves etc.). But perhaps we will see that outside the Grove. Divinity's Reach and the other "starter cities" offered a little bit more diversity, at least to the (or my) eye.
Why would anyone expect a city -- even one as alien as the Grove -- to look like the surrounding countryside? Clearly the sylvari have tended and shaped their city to a great degree, putting in as much effort as the other races have devoted to their cities, but using techniques better described as horticulture than construction. I'm sure you're right that the areas outside the Grove will still have wild areas, as well as settled rural areas that are less tamed than the big city.

I suspect that the diversity of other cities comes from giving little attention to central planning, and those cities (especially LA) pretty much just grow. The sylvari strike me as being more concerned with making things fit their environment, and the connections they share with each other and the Tree probably result in a natural coordination and blending of their efforts, even without central planning. They seem more like Treebeard's description of the entwives -- liking order and for things to stay where they're put -- than like the ents -- prefering the wild places and striving for minimal environmental impact -- based on what we see in that video.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Grove from a distance, given the description of the Pale Tree being mountain sized and seeing that last shot of the trunk going up through the clouds. I was a little disappointed this wasn't part of the video, but maybe they just want to save something for the game. Hopefully there will be in-game places from which we can get a good overview. And I really, really hope we can climb to the top. :)

Nohjo
11-08-2011, 20:01
I really don't get the "honor" and "noble" aspects of sylvari. Both imply tradition and long history, the opposite of what sylvari are about.

Honor I can imagine, but noble? They might talk noble, but another major aspect of the sylvari is their curiousity. And I wonder, do those two properties mix?
Imagine the noblest person you can think of, and now imagine him looking around like a child and touching everything around him. Asking direct questions about mundane things. (Caith in the books behaves somewhat like this).

Not very noble.


...and pollen shakes from their flesh.

Why would the Sylvari produce pollen if they do not procreate?

I loved the new video though, absolutely amazing. The music, and the atmosphere of the forest are epic.

Смерть
11-08-2011, 20:04
And I really, really hope we can climb to the top. :)

I remember long, long ago Anet suggested climbing in GW2; from the looks of it, well, it doesn't really. I would love to climb though, it would make exploring so much more fun!

Alaris
11-08-2011, 20:08
You might be able to climb via stairs though. Or a wine circling the plant all the way to the top.

Смерть
11-08-2011, 20:26
You might be able to climb via stairs though. Or a wine circling the plant all the way to the top.

Like the Norn mountain side to the giant frost wurm yes; hopefully; have toadstool stairs or the like.


Really love the music in that last video... much more symphonic than GW1... just beautiful.

More symphonic?

Leonora Windleaf
11-08-2011, 20:52
More symphonic?

Maybe that was the wrong word, since it's basically all symphonic. What I meant is that it's much more interesting and less ambient than the GW1 soundtrack. There's more stuff going on, and it works great as a Soundtrack. So far, everything I heard so far from GW2 is MUCH better than GW1, although GW1 also had it's moments (quite a lot from Factions is great).

sorudo
11-08-2011, 22:01
I remember long, long ago Anet suggested climbing in GW2; from the looks of it, well, it doesn't really. I would love to climb though, it would make exploring so much more fun!
i always do that in free games like perfect world, just to see if i can reach higher then anyone els ^_^

Смерть
12-08-2011, 08:05
I think it would be cool, when player's Sylvari are born, they come from a pod that blossoms in real-time view of other players in the outpost.

raspberry jam
12-08-2011, 10:03
how do you know? have you tried?Of course.


You know what I'm ashamed of? Being of the same species as someone who can let off a rant like that on such a subject. It isn't the first time I've seen that either, which is why I knew to go look up actual numbers.

1. Mandarin Chinese - 882 million
2. Spanish - 325 million
3. English - 312-380 million
4. Arabic - 206-422 million
5. Hindi - 181 million
6. Portuguese - 178 million
7. Bengali - 173 million
8. Russian - 146 million
9. Japanese - 128 million
10. German - 96 million

By your reckoning we should all go learn Chinese (or Spanish if you don't count Chinese due to the fact they're all in the same place or something).

Btw, Spanish is early to learn as well :shocked:, though I haven't retained all that much from my school days I don't remember it being fairly easy.That's the numbers for native speakers. Check the numbers for people who know a language instead - far more than 300 million know English (and almost every Chinese citizen knows Mandarin, though they are not always native speakers of it).

Spanish is of fairly low difficulty, in general the Romance languages are easier to learn than the Germanic ones (English excluded) though.

There, now when I've told you how wrong you are, you just need to feel ashamed about yourself! :smiley:

Giggles
12-08-2011, 12:20
Of course.

:shocked: I just started reading the Mahabharata. Don't think I'd try reading the unabridged version in Sanskrit. It would take me a while. There's about chapters in it, just about dharma. yikes!

Gorani
12-08-2011, 13:50
Don't force a cleanup by the Green Team with this off topic language/localization talk. Please stay on topic

Gorani

On topic (from the Talk Tyria interview):


The Nightmare Court began during the time of the Secondborn sylvari (the second generation of sylvari born from the tree, about six or seven years after the Firstborn).

That does imply waves of creation or at least some time frames in which the Pale Tree needed to produce Sylvari in larger numbers

about 23 years ago - Firstborn (twelve Sylvari, including Caithe and Faolain; 4 are the Elders that lead the cylces (Dawn, Noon, Dusk & Night; that leaves 6 Firstborn within the Grove or at least the limits of the forest, as only Caithe & Faolain have traveled outside the Sylvari lands)
about 17 to 16 years ago - Secondborn (this is when the Nightmare Court started)

Even if the Pale Tree picked up speed at creating (player characters a created during a "day cycle", there might be less Sylvari out there than Norn.

Akirai Annuvil
12-08-2011, 13:54
To those who say "plant elves", I say you lack imagination, fantasy education, or both. If I had to describe sylvari to someone who doesn't know who Tolkien is, "plant elves" might be a good description. But for anyone who plays fantasy or knows some fantasy, I'd think you can come up with much better name tags. Dryad. Slender plant humanoid. Plant that mimics human form. Elves just don't do them justice.
Yeah... though, you know, post-2001 everyone 12+ knows Jackson's Elves and remembers them as noble and beautifull. But of course this species is made out of plants, with the basic tenets of noble, beautiful, plant. Unlike Elves who hold the basic tenets of noble, beautiful, nature affiliation.
So yeah, Elves made out of plants is a terrible description of the Sylvari.

Star Trek has a copyright on every single race possible.
Don't like Star Trek, but yeah, they've gone through a lot.

No, I don't know that.
Well, glad I could educate you.

unless you have some disability that prevents you from learning it.
Like lack of resources for an education (three continents worth of people) or only having learned a language which is too dissimilar as a youngster (Indian and Chinese come to mind).
But apart from those all people.

What I do know is that people are lazy as **** and, as you say, can't arse themselves into learning the world's most used (and most useful) language.
Screws and glue are both tools to attach surfaces. Neither is more useful than the other. Both are essential. Being material goods both are easy to acquire. Being mental knowledge makes languages much harder to acquire. Especially to the point where you can comprehend shorthand jargon (as will be used in GW2) and a storyline rife with invented words (as will be used in GW2). That's why you want to have localization.

They don't realize that before pretending to be worthy of playing games or even owning a computer, they should have the basic decency to learn something other than their babble of their local province?I pretend to be worthy of owning games because I'm a human being who falls under a certain set of laws and atm, there's no country which disallows individual ownership (and if there is, I'd argue for the ownership as a natural concept). This goes for computers and games just the same as owning screws and glues.

raspberry jam
12-08-2011, 14:19
Yeah... though, you know, post-2001 everyone 12+ knows Jackson's Elves and remembers them as noble and beautifull. But of course this species is made out of plants, with the basic tenets of noble, beautiful, plant. Unlike Elves who hold the basic tenets of noble, beautiful, nature affiliation.
So yeah, Elves made out of plants is a terrible description of the Sylvari. Yes, it is. I wish they would skip the "noble" part, just making them overly curious would be better. But still, a human ranger is closer to an elf than a sylvari is.
You also forget that those elves were ancient, whereas the sylvari are very young.


Like lack of resources for an education (three continents worth of people) or only having learned a language which is too dissimilar as a youngster (Indian and Chinese come to mind). Yes cause GW2 will be sold in India right?


the point where you can comprehend shorthand jargon (as will be used in GW2) and a storyline rife with invented words (as will be used in GW2)Contextual understanding is the primary way of expanding your vocabulary, far better than cram studying word lists (except initially, you have to start somewhere).


I pretend to be worthyYou don't need to pretend; you already know English.

Auntie I
12-08-2011, 14:27
OK, raspberry and crew, enough with this Localization argument. Move along with the discussion on Sylvari week. If you must discuss Localization take it into it's own thread.

raspberry, you are skirting the edge with some of your comments. Remember I don't like personal attacks. So far you've managed to generalize without getting too personal. Make sure you stay on the right side of that line.

raspberry jam
12-08-2011, 15:04
OK, raspberry and crew, enough with this Localization argument. Move along with the discussion on Sylvari week.I listened to a couple of the sound clips that have been put on the blog; while I like the new design, I don't know if I like all of the voice acting. Maybe it's just because I don't quite understand the sylvari yet, but some of it sounds like... well, somehow inappropriate for the sylvari natural curiosity. I think that clashes with the sense of nobility - nobility is somehow based on a sense of superiority of the pre-existing structure, while curiosity is more of a realization that there is no such superiority.

Simply put, I have troubles imagining Killeen using the tone of voice found in those sound clips.


raspberry, you are skirting the edge with some of your comments. Remember I don't like personal attacks. So far you've managed to generalize without getting too personal. Make sure you stay on the right side of that line.Staying on the right side of the line is my middle name, ma'am.
Middle names, I guess.

Lady Rhonwyn
12-08-2011, 15:15
To those who say "plant elves", I say you lack imagination, fantasy education, or both. If I had to describe sylvari to someone who doesn't know who Tolkien is, "plant elves" might be a good description. But for anyone who plays fantasy or knows some fantasy, I'd think you can come up with much better name tags. Dryad. Slender plant humanoid. Plant that mimics human form. Elves just don't do them justice.
I'd call them faeries...

Blazing Liger
12-08-2011, 16:02
Simply put, I have troubles imagining Killeen using the tone of voice found in those sound clips.

My thoughts exactly. Killeen's [morbid] curiosity made her interesting. I don't think she'd be nearly as compelling a character sounding so stodgy and 'noble'. Noble races are just so old hat. I was glad the Sylvari seemed so contrary to that archetype, and I don't really care for this 180 on their defining characteristic. :undecided:

BrettM
12-08-2011, 16:08
That does imply waves of creation or at least some time frames in which the Pale Tree needed to produce Sylvari in larger numbers
Currently, according to the updated sylvari page, "more enter the world each day as they awaken." With daily births, talk of "generations" becomes largely pointless. In fact, it's kind of pointless anyway, since a generation is defined as a class of individuals removed by the same number of successive ancestors from a common predecessor. Both the Firstborn and the others have the same predecessor, so, biologically, all sylvari are the same generation.

I suspect the gap between the Firstborn and the second "generation" (crop? :smiley:) was purposeful. Perhaps the Pale Tree deliberately intended the Firstborn to be mentors to the race, creating them early and giving them a few years to establish themselves before putting production into high gear. If a higher birth rate started at that time, then essentially all other sylvari are "second generation", including our player characters. Only the Firstborn would really be entitled to be singled out as a distinct set.

Possibly the second "generation" did not begin with daily births, since that might have been a bit overwhelming for the Firstborn to handle by themselves. But monthly or weekly births might have gotten the process rolling, ramping up to daily as the Firstborn gained some trained assistants to aid them.


You also forget that those elves were ancient, whereas the sylvari are very young.
People keep referencing age/wisdom/etc. as being a major distinguishing characteristic between sylvari and Tolkienesq elves. This is true comparing sylvari to Tolkien's elves as we know them from LotR, but is not strictly true when considering Tolkien's full vision of the elvish race. Even in LotR, Treebeard makes passing mention of what the elves were like when their race was young, and there are some similarities to the sylvari here. In the Silmarillion we get further information on this part of elvish history. Tolkien's firstborn elves woke as adults, just like the sylvari. They were intensely curious about the world, just like the sylvari, and ran around trying to awaken and talk to other creatures (including trees), very much like the sylvari. They had a certain measure of ill-defined uneasiness and fear because of the dimly-perceived actions of Melkor and his creatures, similar to the sylvari fears related to the Elder Dragons. Some of them eventually became twisted, similar to the Nightmare Court. The elves that didn't become twisted still split into different groups, just as the sylvari are split into different cycles.

Furthermore, there are many other concepts of elves and fairies in fantasy -- from Shakespeare to Wendy Pini -- that are all just as legitimate as Tolkien's creation. Even Tolkien started out with a much different concept, more closely related to folklore fairies, that evolved for years before it became the concept that we now identify with him.

I'm not claiming that the sylvari are derivative. The sylvari, taken as a package (appearance, culture, behavior, history, etc.), are wonderfully fresh, and I do not hesitate to call them unique. I'm just bothered that some are trying so hard to deny any fantasy-elf influence at all, as if acknowledging any connection or possible source of inspiration somehow denegrates ANet's accomplishment. It doesn't.

Khanisaurus
12-08-2011, 19:16
Exactly, we all build on the knowledge and experiences we have had.

Just as Tolkien, drew on the ancient Celtic and Norse myths for inspiration, I see that ANet is drawing on him and others for theirs. Also, like Tolkien their end product is something that is new and unique and different from its predecessors. You can still see the influences, but there are enough differences to call them unique.

Смерть
12-08-2011, 20:12
New blog is new:
http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare

Now I really want to be a Countess in the Nightmare Court... Since we cannot align with evil, I certainly hope they are not enemies to kill in the game, and that we can hang out in Nightmare outposts.

Akirai Annuvil
12-08-2011, 21:24
I think that clashes with the sense of nobility - nobility is somehow based on a sense of superiority of the pre-existing structure, while curiosity is more of a realization that there is no such superiority.
Read the new article. The hierarchy seems pretty strict, determined by who was born when with the Pale Tree as arbiter.


Staying on the right side of the line is my middle name, ma'am.
Middle names, I guess.
Not part of mine. I'm more of a leftie.
You J in disguise uh?!

Now I really want to be a Countess in the Nightmare Court... Since we cannot align with evil, I certainly hope they are not enemies to kill in the game, and that we can hang out in Nightmare outposts.
Hi:
"In order to achieve this goal, the Nightmare Court commit acts of evil both upon sylvari and non-sylvari alike."
No.

Alaris
12-08-2011, 21:30
I can see a dungeon with us being pitted against the Nightmare Court.

GrimShade
12-08-2011, 22:51
I’m not liking the nightmare court thing. It’s just a bunch of delusional psychotic Sylvari that decided to sew mayhem and evil with the belief it will make them stronger. I don’t see how the main Sylvari would put up with it, they should understand the threat to the tree and hunt it down and eradicate it quickly, it makes little sense that they would be allowed to exist. Yes I understand they are the weeds but in any garden you remove the weeds when they grow amongst your plants.

I could understand some ‘Sylvari power’ groups who see all outsiders as a threat or unequal but would draw a line in unnecessary violence against their own kind and still holds to the Sylvari dictum of fighting the dragons. This would be more tolerated by their own kind and would be able to grow big enough to splinter. This group intends to torture their own kind so that new pods hatch as more deluded and psychotic.

BrettM
12-08-2011, 23:30
I’m not liking the nightmare court thing. It’s just a bunch of delusional psychotic Sylvari that decided to sew mayhem and evil with the belief it will make them stronger. I don’t see how the main Sylvari would put up with it, they should understand the threat to the tree and hunt it down and eradicate it quickly, it makes little sense that they would be allowed to exist. Yes I understand they are the weeds but in any garden you remove the weeds when they grow amongst your plants.
More sociopathic than psychotic. They have an antisocial personality disorder, not a loss of contact with reality. They have a problem with empathy and conscience, and their logic seems to be based on what an economist would call a short time preference.

Take, for example, Caderyn's desire to be "the vine that crushes the very sapling which holds it to the light." A vine that does that falls out of the light and dies. A parasite that kills its host is far weaker in the long run than a symbiont that exchanges benefits with its host, but Caderyn is incapable of seeing or appreciating that.

Your solution, though, sounds too much like fighting fire with fire. You would have the Dreamers follow the same path of vengeance that the Nightmare Court advocates, which would, in the end, be giving into the Nightmare.

Nohjo
12-08-2011, 23:54
I just don't really understand why the Nightmare court goes so far in their methods to advocate themselfs. I don't see how it would help anyone if the torture sylvari so that more sylvari are born with twisted thoughts.. What is their goal, what are they hoping to achieve? Pain and dispair everywhere? Why would anyone want that?

Could be though, that those exposed to the darkness of this world are somehow more drawn to it, like plants growing to light, the "dark" sylvari might be drawn to the shadow of this world.
But still.. torturing your own race just to spread evil?
I agree with this:
I could understand some ‘Sylvari power’ groups who see all outsiders as a threat or unequal but would draw a line in unnecessary violence against their own kind and still holds to the Sylvari dictum of fighting the dragons. This would be more tolerated by their own kind and would be able to grow big enough to splinter.

Still, the sylvari are very interesting race, and their Deku home-tree is even more interesting.

GrimShade
12-08-2011, 23:57
Not strictly giving into the nightmares, as terror only breads more terror. A Sylvari Supremist group does not need to feed a nightmare it merely twists the dream to its own devices. This simply alters the focus of the dream from a peace loving society to a peaceful society provided you are one of them. Eventually some may see no difference between a nightmare and the dream but still - http://mildlybrilliant.blogspot.com/2009/01/gjghk.html

Perhaps it is the young nature of the Sylvari that keeps them from understanding the danger of outright ‘nightmare’ propagation done through horrors and atrocities or the danger it represents to the whole of the tree. I guess all Sylvari are still ‘young bulls.’

Alaris
13-08-2011, 00:27
The more twisted the newborn, the easier it is to recruit.

And as they grow their ranks, the Nightmare Court will eventually be able to overtake the Sylvari, and perhaps the Tree itself. That's the idea anyway...

BrettM
13-08-2011, 00:52
What is their goal, what are they hoping to achieve? Pain and dispair everywhere? Why would anyone want that?
They don't want that! That, and worse, is what they would GET, but they don't see that. In their twisted logic they believe their methods will produce the strength to deal with the Elder Dragons. That is what they are hoping to achieve.

Their ultimate goal is no different than that of the Dreamers -- saving their race from the Dragons. That's the horror of the situation: both sides are working towards the same good end! But the Nightmare Court is evil in their means and seem incapable of realizing how counter-productive they are.

GrimShade
13-08-2011, 02:36
Their goal may be the same but they are perusing it with the logic and understanding of a 20 year old. Ironically this does work for them as they are that young. They haven't even reached the age where they start understanding tact and how to problem solve without breaking things.

Basically we have a race of teenagers who have been given nukes.

Karuro
13-08-2011, 15:01
Still, the sylvari are very interesting race, and their Deku home-tree is even more interesting.

You could pretty much write a LoZ story here with some changes.
Human Mother with baby on the run of Mantle/Mursaat/Corrupted Beings etc.
Leaves child at the Pale Tree.
Sylvari & Pale Tree raise the kid as one of their own.
Years later, he journeys outside the Tarnished coast, collects Destiny's Edge Members instead of jewels and beats up the evil Zhaitan with the Ascendants Sword.

Cythrea
14-08-2011, 23:03
I think there's also an element of "We are nature, and nature is not all hugs and cuddles" to the Nightmare Court.

Still, I am now very torn between a Sylvari Engineer or a Charr Ranger when GW2 comes out.

Alaris
15-08-2011, 03:50
Plants use biological warfare. True story. Poisonous mushrooms anyone?

People who think we shouldn't harm animals and then eat plants and then say nature is beautiful... need a reality check.

Bilbo Baggins
15-08-2011, 08:57
Plants use biological warfare. True story. Poisonous mushrooms anyone?

People who think we shouldn't harm animals and then eat plants and then say nature is beautiful... need a reality check.

Thank you.

Khanisaurus
15-08-2011, 09:29
Plants use biological warfare. True story. Poisonous mushrooms anyone?

A just little factoid for you Alaris.

MUSHROOMS AREN'T PLANTS THEY ARE FUNGI!!!!

:grin::grin::grin:

Mehtis
15-08-2011, 09:37
A just little factoid for you Alaris.

MUSHROOMS AREN'T PLANTS THEY ARE FUNGI!!!!

:grin::grin::grin:

Oh, how did I miss that. I'm always pointing that out. I blame it on early morning. Good that someone is more alert.

OT: Really liked the latest blogpost.

thulsey
15-08-2011, 09:38
A just little factoid for you Alaris.

MUSHROOMS AREN'T PLANTS THEY ARE FUNGI!!!!

:grin::grin::grin:

Judging from your avatar you look like a pretty fungi, too… :laugh:
I'm here all week, folks. Tip your waitress, she works hard!

But seriously - plants? Plants are deadly…

sorudo
15-08-2011, 17:26
Judging from your avatar you look like a pretty fungi, too… :laugh:
I'm here all week, folks. Tip your waitress, she works hard!

But seriously - plants? Plants are deadly…
tell me about it.
vSYcFKgHY8I

Alaris
15-08-2011, 17:42
I didn't say that mushrooms are plants. I said that plants use biological warfare. Then, I said that many mushrooms are poisonous. Then I said that nature is nastier than we like to think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poisonous_plants

thulsey
15-08-2011, 19:09
I didn't say that mushrooms are plants. I said that plants use biological warfare. Then, I said that many mushrooms are poisonous. Then I said that nature is nastier than we like to think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poisonous_plants


I hear you, Alaris. I saw the movie:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0949731/

:brainiac:

Alaris
15-08-2011, 19:14
Actually, I liked that movie. But mileage can vary.

But this is not sci-fi.
http://www.livescience.com/1963-invasive-plant-conquers-chemical-warfare.html
http://stephaniesuesansmith.com/plant-warfare/

Khanisaurus
15-08-2011, 19:26
I know there are many poisonous plants. I just had to give you hell.

You post definitely made it look like you thought mushrooms were plants.

I have a character named Belladonna Tenabrae reserved to use as a Sylvari name for a necro or a thief.