View Full Version : WvWvW Gank much?
volcomboud
04-04-2012, 01:27
Hey there ! I am worried about WvWvW mechanic. Referring to world of warcraft when you are entering a big battleground such as Islle of Conquest or Alterac valley, it most of the time end up fighting in 10 vs 1. Not that I am complaining because I used to enjoy the game before the panda issue but still 400 pvper mmo sound like a huge ganking/zergling bg. Any1 who had access to beta can confirm I am wrong? I am really anticipating
FYi I am really anticipating GW2 because of the pvp looking awesome.
Fluffball
04-04-2012, 01:41
Well the idea is that teams fight over keeps. I imagine if you run by yourself through an enemy army out in the field, you'll get ganked.
volcomboud
04-04-2012, 01:46
So the smart tactic would be to group up before the assault, promoting teamplay? Sounds great
Guided Daggers
04-04-2012, 09:45
Well, if I'm right, even the smallest towers are defended by NPC guards. So you'll have a small chance of survival if you go alone.
Certain players ("Commanders") are marked on the map, and so are battles. So if you just fast-travel there, you're sure to find a group of players to team up with :)
Fluffball
04-04-2012, 13:20
Well, if I'm right, even the smallest towers are defended by NPC guards. So you'll have a small chance of survival if you go alone.
This is true. I watched (a very boring) beta WvW video where the guy traveled around alone. He tried to take a mining camp, which don't even have walls, and he was unable to because of the guards. WvW is definitely a team game.
This is true. I watched (a very boring) beta WvW video where the guy traveled around alone. He tried to take a mining camp, which don't even have walls, and he was unable to because of the guards. WvW is definitely a team game.
Can you post this video? - Would really like to see it!
Lone sharks will have some stuff they can do, like take down single foes of the opposite team, or take out supply transports.
Even if a lone player could take out other wandering players or supplies, it will make more sense if a team you are a part of has sent you there specifically - else you might end up with confused people noodling around, getting to some place, seeing someone is already there, and feeling like they have to run somewhere else to be useful, rather than having a plan of action in mind.
Nah, someone might prefer to play solo and yet have very specific plans on how to help. The point being that you get to be useful even as a solo player (if that's your thing) but if you choose that route you have to be realistic and go for smaller targets.
I plan to stick around PUG groups of medium-to-large size.
On the other hand, also remember that large zergy groups won't be very useful either, as they will just not be in the right place in the right time.
Even as a solo player, paying attention to what is looking like it is getting captured, and what people are saying (probably something like "someone go cap the *@!*! keep n00bz", heh) so you know you're getting to the right place.
I suppose I am biased against solo cappers from too much AB. Seen many people confusedly wandering around acting as little more than point fodder for the other team... they're usually not very useful, ahem. But yes, this game is better built to accommodate solo-style players - I keep forgetting.
Tyris Requiem
17-04-2012, 18:39
^ Pretty much as already said above. 5 groups of 8 players will easily outscore a zerg of 40 people simply by the virtue of being more maneuverable and being able to cap more places simultaneously. There will be times to form very large groups to assault the larger keeps but after the mob should split up in order to cover more ground.
There is a balance between solo and zerging/mobbing. Hitting this balance point allows most efficient use of available players, this will decide many WvW matches imo.
You can make a keep a lot easier to take by cutting off it's supplies.
Fluffball
17-04-2012, 23:03
Can you post this video? - Would really like to see it!
No you really wouldn't. :grin: It was like 40 minutes of the guy running around staring at scenery. I don't have a link, I just stumbled upon it one day.
MikeB of Gamebreaker did a tour of the borderlands (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/crossing-the-border/)and the eternal battlegrounds (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/surveying-the-bloodfields-in-the-eternal-battlegrounds-guild-wars-2-wvw/)
And a WvWvW fighting vid (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaching-the-walls-guild-wars-2-wvw/)
And Hoelbrak (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/no-place-like-home/), Black Citadel (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/into-the-black/) and Divinity's Reach (http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/city-that-never-sleeps/)
Skyy High
19-04-2012, 16:36
Hey there ! I am worried about WvWvW mechanic. Referring to world of warcraft when you are entering a big battleground such as Islle of Conquest or Alterac valley, it most of the time end up fighting in 10 vs 1. Not that I am complaining because I used to enjoy the game before the panda issue but still 400 pvper mmo sound like a huge ganking/zergling bg. Any1 who had access to beta can confirm I am wrong? I am really anticipating
FYi I am really anticipating GW2 because of the pvp looking awesome.
The difference really is that you're thinking too small. Alterac may be big in WoW, but it's peanuts compared to WvW. This is what allows small groups to circumvent giant zergs and to outscore them.
I tried to join a battlefield in WoW once. After 30 min in queue, I got bored and forgot to try again some other time.
CrunkJuice
02-05-2012, 01:28
The difference really is that you're thinking too small. Alterac may be big in WoW, but it's peanuts compared to WvW. This is what allows small groups to circumvent giant zergs and to outscore them.
i was under the impression that.200 vs 200 or whatever the number was for wvwvw,thats all you would ever find is giant zergs
people actually like.small scale/solo pvp in wvwvw?
cuz i mean,me personally.ive always been the solo pvper,never been a big fan of being a part of the blob zerg
people actually like.small scale/solo pvp in wvwvw?
I do. That said, it was totally ineffective and basically pointless in WvWvW. I could see it working in groups of 3-4, taking small stuff (supply depots), but I know for a fact it can't work with two people and one (lowbie) couldn't even handle two regular mobs every time.
Tapatalk'd
CrunkJuice
02-05-2012, 01:37
so pretty much
for running around solo ganking people.its best to stick with the structured pvp
Hard to say.
Structured PvP to me functions more like the AB of GW 1. You cap points until someone gets to 500. You can run around and cap alone (and I did this a lot), so it is entirely possible to solo gank someone. However, the maps are much smaller, so I don't know if "gank" is really the right word because, at best, it will be a 1v1 match. But because the maps are small, it could easily turn into something bigger.
WvWvW is where you could really gank someone, especially since lowbies can join the match - while they'll be boosted in HP and whatever, they're still a lot weaker than higher-leveled players. However, the WvWvW maps are MASSIVE and there are four of them (one for each world + the "Eternal Battleground." I think scrubs like me running around alone are the minority, so you may never run into another player.
CrunkJuice
02-05-2012, 02:03
Structured PvP to me functions more like the AB of GW 1. You cap points until someone gets to 500. You can run around and cap alone (and I did this a lot), so it is entirely possible to solo gank someone. However, the maps are much smaller, so I don't know if "gank" is really the right word because, at best, it will be a 1v1 match. But because the maps are small, it could easily turn into something bigger.
so pretty much,the pvp in structured pvp isnt really like battleground style? i mean,i was picturing you know.world of warcraft battleground style pvp for the structured and ilum type sw tor pvp for the world vs world pvp
I have not played either SWTOR or WoW PvP. Outside of arenas anyway.
Structured is very small-scale and highly competitive.
WvW is very large-scale with siege weapons and all that.
so pretty much,the pvp in structured pvp isnt really like battleground style? i mean,i was picturing you know.world of warcraft battleground style pvp for the structured and ilum type sw tor pvp for the world vs world pvp
I'm sorry to say I don't know much about WoW Battlegrounds, maybe one of the other posters can give you a more accurate response. I looked at some videos of WoW Battlegrounds and they appear to be a mix of GW 2's WvWvW and PvP: Not as big a map as WvWvW, but not as small as PvP; not as much potential open space / time running around as WvWvW, but more than PvP.
And on the topic of SWTOR: PvP is more like that, yes. But I felt more relaxed in GW 2's PvP than in SWTOR's. In SWTOR, I felt like I had to rush back to the action when I died, whereas in PvP in GW 2, I was happy if I never ran into another player because I could still help win the match.
Ringsgold
02-05-2012, 19:55
I do. That said, it was totally ineffective and basically pointless in WvWvW. I could see it working in groups of 3-4, taking small stuff (supply depots), but I know for a fact it can't work with two people and one (lowbie) couldn't even handle two regular mobs every time.
Tapatalk'd
Two lvl80's will be able to take out a supply camp, but it's better done with 4-5. Remember the mobs were at full strength but we were using lowbie gear and had almost no perks.
I grouped up with four people after talking in local chat for a bit, we killed some dolyaks and took a supply camp, then started attacking a fort (one of us had blueprints for a ram and we all carried some supplies to build it). It was kinda hard taking out the defending NPC's of the fort, and the single ram took a long time to damage the door. Before we got it down the main enemy force found out and drove us off xD
Playing with a small group of friends will definitely be an effective way to WvW.
You will be able to find some 1v1 situations if you skirt the outside of battles or go after supply caravans by yourself, but be prepared to be running from larger groups most of the time.
I don't think one person will be able to take out a supply camp alone, even at level 80. The mobs inside it were chained together. We were able to get one broken off by itself, but it wasn't on purpose and it was probably a bug. There were 4 mobs chained together, and one was a Legendary or whatever they're called. I don't think it would be possible with two people, either.
If the stuff IS possible with two people, I suspect I'll have a great deal of fun running around with my friend.
Two might be pushing it, three might be feasible though if they play well.
I think smaller groups are more meant to take out unguarded supply routes.
What do you mean by the supply routes? Do you just mean the Doylak? Because I was killing those things solo; they don't even fight back.
If you mean the actual camp, that's what we're talking about :)
I meant Dolyaks, I had no idea they didn't fight back. There you go then, I think a solo player could be quite useful to the map by killing Dolyaks (or protecting Dolyaks from being killed by solo players).
Without supplies to repair doors and make arrow carts and stuff, keeps will fall to pressure.
I ran solo in the Battlegrounds (portals weren't working then I suddenly got ported to green battlegrounds alone :p) and tried to take a supply camp. When I managed to kill a scout by it was only a short delay before the scout had respawned. The commanders are no pushovers either. Even just one NPC with the commander and it was goodnight. I had a necro join me and we still struggled.
It was funny to keep killing doylaks with no escort though. I levelled up some weapon skills nicely.
hotdogtesting
16-06-2012, 08:34
Two might be pushing it, three might be feasible though if they play well.
I think smaller groups are more meant to take out unguarded supply routes.
It depends.
I did some exploring this BWE. It looks like each fortress has a supply camp attached that can easily be reached by its back entrance. Usually this entrance is one way (due to some geographical feature like a cliff you have to jump off of).
I think a two or three man team can easily take this camp to keep their side from being supply blocked.
RabidCoqui
16-06-2012, 14:32
Unfortunately, for the last BWE in particular, WvWvW has turned into a zergfest. Except for camps, the defenses of a tower or keep are enough to keep a small force out long enough for the zerg to get there. Also, if a keep has a handful of decent defenders, chances are good you're not getting in without a zerg. I'm sure that won't be the case all the time but it's definitely an easy way to gain control of the majority, if not the entirety, of a map.
Fluffball
17-06-2012, 09:55
Unfortunately, for the last BWE in particular, WvWvW has turned into a zergfest. Except for camps, the defenses of a tower or keep are enough to keep a small force out long enough for the zerg to get there. Also, if a keep has a handful of decent defenders, chances are good you're not getting in without a zerg. I'm sure that won't be the case all the time but it's definitely an easy way to gain control of the majority, if not the entirety, of a map.
Seems reasonable. You're not going to get players evenly dispersed across the map because it's not efficient. A solid core.... uh, battalion -- shall we call it -- takes well defended points and ... QRFs scout, raid and hold points.
hotdogtesting
17-06-2012, 12:36
Unfortunately, for the last BWE in particular, WvWvW has turned into a zergfest. Except for camps, the defenses of a tower or keep are enough to keep a small force out long enough for the zerg to get there. Also, if a keep has a handful of decent defenders, chances are good you're not getting in without a zerg. I'm sure that won't be the case all the time but it's definitely an easy way to gain control of the majority, if not the entirety, of a map.
I think a lot of the problem is that there's no organisation in any of the servers. As such, Zerg groups are very effective, so long as your group is bigger than the other side's group.
Most of the time on my server, no one seemed to figure that we needed to liberate some supply camps and get siege to take towers quickly.
I mean, 20+ vs 10 defenders, surely we'd have taken the tower before the Zerg group could have reached us... Especially if we gathered some supplies like we were suppose to. Once we have that initial tower, it should have been just a matter of attrition and guerrilla strikes at other supply camps.
The problem with Zerg is always that it reacts very slowly to large numbers of simultaneous attacks on multiple fronts. Setup some ambushes at some of these points and quickly you bring the Zerg to heel.
But then that's applying Competitive PVP expectations on a WvWvW game. Still... it'll be nice once we can get some full sized guilds doing WvWvW runs.
Ringsgold
18-06-2012, 10:42
My world (Gandara) had some decent organisation at times, but when the main leaders weren't playing we lost pretty quickly. It seemed both Augury Rock and Fort Ranik were mostly fighting us (they both had [FR] as tag for some reason as well, kept thinking I was fighting france)
One time I held a keep with about 8 others against a pretty huge force (from the wall it looked like 30-40, they had a catapult, ballista and some arrow carts), took them quite some time to take it (enough time for three dolyaks to pass supply route in front of the gates). I built an arrowcart a little back on the walls and got loads of kills, plus lots of "defend the fort - succeeded" with gold contribution (every 5 minutes or so).
Oh, you were on Gandara too? I was playing most of Saturday and Sunday on our Borderlands. We did occasionally have some great organisation by squad leaders and had the whole map for some time on Saturday (I think). Had some nice defending with arrow carts and ballistas. Sunday they both did attack us on multiple fronts simultaneously and tried to steal our orb (though we had all the keeps so I don't know where they tried to take it).
raspberry jam
18-06-2012, 10:56
I tried to join a battlefield in WoW once. After 30 min in queue, I got bored and forgot to try again some other time.You're supposed to queue, then head to the water and grind your fishing skill while you wait.
I wish I was joking.
hotdogtesting
18-06-2012, 11:11
You're supposed to queue, then head to the water and grind your fishing skill while you wait.
I wish I was joking.
Small wonder that a lot of people get tired of waiting and just set up a bot to farm honor instead...
I've done my share of waiting for JQ and FA. I like that GW2 fixes that too.
raspberry jam
18-06-2012, 14:13
I've done my share of waiting for JQ and FA. I like that GW2 fixes that too.GW1: RA, HA, TA (not anymore), GvG, AB, JQ, FA, CA, CB/Snowball/Dragon arena (sometimes), did I forget anything? Oh yeah HB but they closed that.
GW2: WvW or Conquest
Good fix :rolleyes: at least give us a CTF mode.
Good fix
1) I meant the wait times. If you reply, at least reply to the actual comment.
2) Most old styles are still here:
Conquest is a mix of AB, RA, TA,
WvW is a mix of AB, JQ, FA,
Purists might argue that GvG and HA are out.
hotdogtesting
19-06-2012, 00:32
1) I meant the wait times. If you reply, at least reply to the actual comment.
2) Most old styles are still here:
Conquest is a mix of AB, RA, TA,
WvW is a mix of AB, JQ, FA,
Purists might argue that GvG and HA are out.
I'd go one step further and argue that WvW encourages people to go out and find their own PvP encounter rather than let some big computer in the sky decide.
Granted it isn't always fair... but is it any more fair to encounter a perfectly stacked RA team vs. your PUG?
I'm still wishing for a good team ladder system.
hotdogtesting
19-06-2012, 03:19
I'm still wishing for a good team ladder system.
No saying that it doesn't already exist.
I notice last beta there's still large swathes of the game that are blocked off. There certainly already exists something for WvWvW... I can't imagine ladder PvP needing anything so different that it can't be included or isn't already included.
I was referring to sPvP though, which has you grouping up with different team members, especially if you PUG it. The issue is evaluating properly the team's level and matching it accordingly with another team.
RA had a lot of fights where one team overpowered the other. I would like more fights that are balanced, because those are most exciting.
raspberry jam
19-06-2012, 10:58
1) I meant the wait times. If you reply, at least reply to the actual comment.
2) Most old styles are still here:
Conquest is a mix of AB, RA, TA,
WvW is a mix of AB, JQ, FA,
Purists might argue that GvG and HA are out.I lol'd. But, yes, no more waiting.
Not as much waiting.
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