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Gorani
28-04-2012, 16:12
I've created Guardian for this first BWE and quickly came to limits with the play style I prefer:
Being melee, whether with Mace, Sword or Greatword offered some nice skills, but once you had a few more opponents, things start to get laggy (it is a beta, and will probably get better) and distractingly flashy (we have already talked about particle effects). Quickly I started to use "wild button smashing" as I could not react to foes by observing what they did.

Now the question for people having more experience with the Guardian:
Can you make a good and useful Guardian by keeping to ranged weapons, like the staff or Scepter + Off-Hand-Weapons? Do you need to be able to swap in a melee weapon to not lose aspects of the class?

Egg Shennn
28-04-2012, 22:38
My first character was guardian, and was melee, and I wasn't liking it... Tried out ele, and loved the ranged, but felt a little squishy, so went back to the Guardian and bought scepter, then found a staff. Enjoyed it FAR more and it seems quite effective.

Mostly used Scepter + Shield, then found a nice staff and started unlocking it's skills. Both combinations seemed much better to me than anything I was doing in a melee setup. I had kept shield as the offhand to maintain the strong defensive skills it brings. But I'm also liking the staff's skill selection, especially that your auto-attack can hit up to 5 foes. And it brings pretty nice defense as well, with the wall that foes can't pass through.

Switching to play my Guardian ranged drastically changed how I felt about the class. I was ready to say I didn't enjoy it when I played it as melee, and now I think it's great.

Lady Rhonwyn
28-04-2012, 22:40
My first character was guardian, and was melee, and I wasn't liking it... Tried out ele, and loved the ranged, but felt a little squishy, so went back to the Guardian and bought scepter, then found a staff. Enjoyed it FAR more and it seems quite effective.

Mostly used Scepter + Shield, then found a nice staff and started unlocking it's skills. Both combinations seemed much better to me than anything I was doing in a melee setup. I had kept shield as the offhand to maintain the strong defensive skills it brings. But I'm also liking the staff's skill selection, especially that your auto-attack can hit up to 5 foes. And it brings pretty nice defense as well, with the wall that foes can't pass through.

Switching to play my Guardian ranged drastically changed how I felt about the class. I was ready to say I didn't enjoy it when I played it as melee, and now I think it's great.

That's a bit how I feel as well. Not that I have a log of knowledge of the class and I just had found a staff when we got kicked, but going ranged, made it a lot more fun to play.

Alaris
28-04-2012, 22:44
Ranged guardian, as well as ranged warrior, are pretty cool options. What I like is that as a general thing, ranged options feel true to the profession. Ranged staff on guardian was a bit odd though because the 1 skill is AoE short-ranged, but the 2 skill is longer-ranged and when I figure out how to change the autoattack skill, it'll be all good.

Melee combat is fun, but personally I will have at least one ranged set on each character.

Ora
30-04-2012, 03:00
I played a Norn Guardian to lvl 18 during the BWE.
At start i had some problems to play melee style and played mostly wand/shield. My guardian didnt seem to be tough enough to go melee.

That changed once i had accumulated funds enough to buy the book for the traits. I invested all my trait points into toughnes and that really changed things for me.

So lvls 13 to 18 I enjoyed switching back and forth from 2H sword in one weapon slot to wand/shield in the other.

I will most certainly try to play a guardian like that all the way after release.
I never had such a versatile character in any of the MMO's i played before. She can even do fire magic :)

satenia
30-04-2012, 09:59
I was more than positively surprised about the ranged gameplay.

Started off with traditional sword/shield, also tried mace and wand along with it, didn't like it.

Switched to 2h sword and liked it a lot - actually still like it best - but also found that there are situations where I'd prefer a ranged weapon.

So I switched to staff, more for laughs really, but had to find out that it's quite effective. Not so much when going solo, but in small groups or events it really started to shine. In the end I kept switching between 2h sword and staff.

Personally I think the answer is that you don't have to decide between melee or ranged guardian, you can easily switch between the two depending on the situation. While I was (still am) shocked over how few skills you have available compared to GW1, this kind of weapon switching extends skill limitations in a highly flexible way.

Tsukasa Kamiya
30-04-2012, 19:26
I absolutely loved playing my Guardian in both Melee and mid line.

However the problem i came across frequently in WvW was it's range.

When we fought outside a keep i was able to take out some players in Melee as by that time i had got dodging and movement down pretty well, and was able to help thin the ranks of defenders outside the fortress's, aswell as buff aliies to help them taken down players outside too.

However when it came to banging on the door and hitting players on the walls i felt all but useless, i dont know what i was doing wrong or if the Guardian just doesnt have a long range capability, but while others would be firing spells and bullets and arrows at the door and wall defenders, i found myself doing pretty much nothing.

The teleport / Blind skill on the 1H sword cannot teleport you up to the top of the fort, so i couldnt get up there and cause some trouble for the players up there to help the players down below.

The Greatswords Binding blade skill cannot drag an enemy player down from the fort (Or at least it didnt whenever i tried it), so i couldnt pull the defenders down to help the squad out either.

If i ran up to the door to Melee it with the swords i would frequently be hit by the oil / Tar that enemy players dropped down.

And i found that switching to my scepter would allow me to spam the orbs of light, but they follow the ground and cannot reach the defenders on the top of walls.

The staff is more Mid Ranged, thus even to use the spam skill i need to be pretty close to the door.

And the hammer and mace seem more Melee AOE, so again no range (Unless i'm missing something obvious)

I did find myself watching where the enemy players were shooting and going putting up some defensive bubbles to protect them and even res fallen allies, but in terms of the actual bringing down of the door i couldnt have fealt more useless.

So for those of you who played Guardian in WvW, how did you handle the fort sieges? was there some particular combo of weapons or utility skills you used to allow you to hit the people up top or hit the door often without being in melee range besides the scepter spam skill? Or do Guardians just not have any major way of contributing besides team defense and resing people at that point in the siege?

Also to note i was level 15 during most of my WvW adventures (Effective 80, but only had 2 utility slots and no elite at this point), hadn't figured out how to buy blueprints, and the siege weapons and arrow launchers that were there, were taken up by other players.

So are the siege weapons and arrow launchers supposed to be the Guardians long range method? buy an arrow launcher blueprint, build one, man it and then attack that way? or did i just completely miss something obvious?

Besides that i absolutely love my Guardian, and intend to get better at playing it, hopefully some responses here will help me better understand things.

- Tsukasa

Alaris
30-04-2012, 19:50
However the problem i came across frequently in WvW was it's range.

Sorry to hear that. Yes, I do get the impression that in some WvW scenarios, long-range weapons would be a must. That, or supporting those who do have long-range weapons. Perhaps you would be better suited for different tasks. I'd be curious to hear how useless pets and minions can get in WvW when fighting people on top of (or at the bottom of) walls.

I played warrior with axes and longbow, so long-range was good for me. I found that people on top of walls were hard to hit, but feasible. Generally, you want to take out their defensive weapons first and thin out the herd before going at the door. Generally, whoever has the artillery is at an advantage, then it's long-range weapons, then anything goes.

RabidCoqui
30-04-2012, 20:54
In bringing up pets you reminded me of something that's off-topic...

They can somehow teleport on top of walls... many times I'd be firing down on attackers and back off when I start taking dmg... only to find I'm still getting hit by the magic teleporting pet...

Semi back on topic... you can help quite a bit as guardian even if you skip the ranged options by helping defend the ram or maybe bubble to protection from incoming arrow cart fire. Plus you can take on the respawning guards. Another option is manning siege weapons. Having said all that, having a good ranged option would still be better IMO.

One other thing to note on WvW sieges. Most of the time you see players shooting up at defenders they aren't hitting squat... same goes for a lot of defenders shorting down.

Alaris
30-04-2012, 21:17
Admittedly, it was difficult with longbow to hit stuff on top of walls or at the bottom of walls. It could be done, but it was not easy.

From above, you needed to be right at the edge of the wall, and you couldn't fire off at distant foes either. The height advantage was mostly that you could step back and not get hit anymore. I don't know if I got a damage increase though, but I did not get much range increase imo.

From below, you can pretty much only hit those who are right on the edge.

At that point, I think most people are meant to build siege weapons, as that does way more damage and has way better range anyway. I was in a WvW fight where both sides had ranged weapons and it was pretty cool.

Egg Shennn
30-04-2012, 22:15
I do think Guardian had some skills which may be exploited, by using a group of Guardians.

For instance, take 5 Guardians using Staff, lined up against a pile of melee foes. Guardian 1 puts down "Line of Warding" (which foes cannot pass through) and all the Guardians proceed to blast with their auto-attack "Wave of Wrath" (which can hit 5 foes). Every 5 seconds, the next Guardian puts up his "Line of Warding", maintaining the impenetrable barrier, and everyone continues doing their multi-target spammable attack. With 5 Guardians, that gives a full 25 seconds of immunity to melee, while laying down a lot of widespread damage. That seemed very exploitable... Even at relatively low levels, 5 Guardians using their spam skill would lay down close to 100 damage to each of the 5 targets, per use of skill. I think the skill goes 1 x per second, roughly, so thats a 2500 damage to 5 foes potential. If the foes aren't dead, they are surely weakened severely, and now have to face the fully healthy Guardians...

Alaris
30-04-2012, 23:26
Wow Egg, that sounds brutal. Also, there are similar skills to block (or even repel) projectiles so coordinated guardians could have a big advantage against melee and ranged, perhaps not both at the same time though.

Tsukasa Kamiya
01-05-2012, 00:59
I'm actually glad you mention the Longbow Alaris, because it's not supposed to be easy to hit the enemy defenders on the walls, but the point is that other professions at least have a way to try, you might not hit them all the time, but you can hit them, for the Guardian thus far, we have absolutely no way of attacking targets up there, or even targets down on the ground if we are the ones defending.

It seems that on Arenanets official forums alot of people who played the Guardian also have the same opinion, that in the initial siege, Guardians are relatively useless besides buffing people and reviving people unless you get on a war machine.

Jon Peters even commented in the thread saying it's something that they are looking into.


This is something we talk about often. Scepter is borderline long range but has issues when there are large height differences. Staff was his long range option at some point but that has somewhat gone by the wayside leaving him a bit exposed. It is certainly one of the things we will be looking at between beta events. Thanks for the feedback.

Jon

The things i agree with in that topic are that the Guardians Staff should have it's range extended to 1200, which matches most of the other professions weapon ranges.

The other being that the Guardian should be given a bow of some kind as a weapon choice, preferably a longbow, i don't want it so i can do a ton of AOE damage, that's not the Guardians role, but at least it would be a weapon that could let us do small amounts of damage, maybe even small AOE damage at long range, and possibly remove conditions on allies and inflict burning on enemy's (Could be Azure arrows that burn rather than the standard arrows), since all of the Guardians spirit weapons thus far are weapons that the Guardian can wield, it makes the Spirit Bow the odd one out, adding the bow as a weapon would fix this, but the main reason being that we at least can contribute to the sieges, and at least have a chance of hitting players on the walls.

As for the rest of my experience with the Guardian, i did love what could be done, and it proved to me that i do have the battlefield awareness and skills to play the Guardian well after more practice. I've spoiler-ed a small story below due to it's size, but it was one of my more memorable moments in WvW.

We were on our way to assault a keep, can't remember which one, and had to run through a tunnel, we met another large enemy squad coming the other way.

I put down a Line of warding which stopped them getting through, at the same time a small squad with a guardian in came from the other end of the tunnel behind the enemy squad as all the enemy units had entered the tunnel, so the Guardian there put down another line of warding, basically trapping them in that section of the tunnel.

As my line of warding wore off, i switched to sword and shield and used shield of absorption to knock some of them backwards, allowing us to advance more, and pushed them to retreat from the tunnel, the other team that came from behind them then joined us in the tunnel.

When the enemy players got out into the open they spread out and covered the tunnel so we couldn't escape, i got to the doorway and put up Sanctuary, protecting the team from all their projectiles and from reaching us while we fired our own, i also buffed them with "Retreat" (Which needs renaming tbh, since no one ever retreats) to give them a speed buff and a free Aegis while they charged for the enemy, who then proceeded to separate, some running into the keep and some running towards the hills.

It was at that point when it came to banging on the door that i felt useless, i managed to pop the odd defensive shout or bubble to protect the people attacking the door from ranged attacks, as well as covering downed players with Sanctuary while i revived them, but beyond that i felt unable to properly contribute to the take down of the doors or walls, it was only when we charged the place when the door went down that i was able to contribute by knocking players off the top of the walls with my bubbles, or just outright killing them.

However there was one moment that i particularly felt awesome with, and that was when i noticed a small group of enemy players trying to run around our squad and run for the gate.

I ran to the gate and stuck down a line of warding in front of it just before they got there. They all piled up in front of the gate, at which point pretty much all of the Squad noticed them and pretty much blasted them, i thoroughly enjoyed that moment. :grin:


But yeah absolutely loved the Guardian from what i got to play, definitely intend to make it my Main profession! :grin:

Alaris
01-05-2012, 01:12
I'm actually glad you mention the Longbow Alaris

Is guardian the only one that can't attack at that range?

I can't imagine how a thief would be useful either, seems to me that pistol and shortbow are medium-ranged weapons as well.

Does the engineer have the range with rifle? What of grenade kits?

What happens with mesmer clones?

Egg Shennn
01-05-2012, 01:16
Wow Egg, that sounds brutal. Also, there are similar skills to block (or even repel) projectiles so coordinated guardians could have a big advantage against melee and ranged, perhaps not both at the same time though.

Yeah, Wall of Reflection proved to be very effective against ranged attackers, I just didn't see the same exploit potential as Line of warding had, but it did still make a big difference in battle. I used both skills quite a bit and just felt the Line of warding was a game changer. Whether used as an offensive catalyst, holding the swarm at bay while we nuked them, or as a cover to try and retreat when getting too weak, it made a big difference.

But I don't want anyone to misunderstand, even with those (and other) powerful defensive skills, I still found myself getting dropped with one shot more times than I really thought should have been the case. Especially in any battles with large numbers, one hit was like being run over my a semi-truck.

Alaris
01-05-2012, 01:33
Oh yeah, those skills seem powerful when used well, but guardian was still not an OP class by any means... at least not according to my PvE experience. It was strong and diverse, not OP.

Now something popped in my mind... what of popping skills like wall of reflection in Wvw during sieges? Would that be good against foes that are up on the wall (or at the bottom of it, for that matter) and outside of range of your ranged attacks? Would that work on siege attacks like the arrow cart skills?

Karuro
01-05-2012, 01:43
Played my Guardian up to lvl 23.
Tried a bit of every weapon.
Then I got a Greatsword.
Never let it go, love that thing too much.
I mainly used the staff for pulling or just to pull off some skills before whirling around with the greatsword.
My greatest annoyance with the staff and wand were; Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss.
If you're defending in WvW the only thing you can do from on top of the wall is one AoE skill with the staff.
Even in PvE, in one of the Norn outposts that got attacked by Icebrood/Sons.
I jumped on top of a tent to see if I could range them. Miss, Miss, Miss... You're a Norn away from the ground and you can't even throw a ball at them. Meanwhile, bows have no problems. But Guardians don't have those..

I mainly picked the Guardian (And Norn) this BWE as they were a profession/race that wouldn't be among my first characters for release.
But with the melee experience, I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy my warrior as long as the bow/rifle doesn't suffer from what the staff/scepter had.
No height advantage at all.

I'm a pro at bringing people back into battle though.

Alaris
01-05-2012, 01:52
I just realized that the skills that reflect projectiles might be lol-worthy to spam during those sieges. Do those work against arrow carts and other siege weapons? That would be OP.

Anyway, just run around within range to taunt your foes, and then there is enough focused fire on you, pop that reflection field so they end up shooting themselves. Range is not an issue I would assume with that skill. Now I wonder how many of those reflection skills a guardian can bring on one build.

Tsukasa Kamiya
01-05-2012, 02:06
Is guardian the only one that can't attack at that range?

I can't imagine how a thief would be useful either, seems to me that pistol and short bow are medium-ranged weapons as well.

Does the engineer have the range with rifle? What of grenade kits?

What happens with Mesmer clones?

Sorry i didn't mean to make it come across like we were the only class unable to attack at range, just that it was a problem for the Guardian in general.

We do technically have mid to long range with the scepter, but the problem is it follows the ground and cannot cross over gaps, and the fact that it moves so slow compared to other professions attacks, even though the thief as you say has the pistol and short bow, they both have a decent rate of fire, while the scepters main long range skill takes a good 3-4 seconds for each projectile to reach it's target depending on distance, while rifles, pistols and bows are for the most part instant (Within one second of firing its usually at the target) and can also, at least in the case of the bows target able AOE, can be fired upwards to the walls, while the Guardians scepter orb always travels around the ground very slowly, this is also dodge able in terms of player vs player combat on an even field by simply strafing, where as bows and pistols, while dodge-able to an extent, are able to do at least some damage quite quickly.

The Engineer has the Turrets which it can use for the door at least without putting itself in danger, i know the Guardian has spirit weapons but those do not last very long to begin with, where as unless I'm mistaken the Turrets last until destroyed (Either by manual destruction or damage) and can also be picked up and moved. (Please correct me if any of that's wrong).

As for the Mesmer i played with my friend who played a Mesmer all weekend with me, his clones he created for the door all just stood there immobile, but he also had the great sword as an option, which has a skill that does more damage the further you are from the target, which was ideal for the door at least, even if he couldn't hit the enemy's on the wall.

So the only damage option for the Guardian seemed to be Melee, and that only worked when players had taken out the Tar / oil pot above the door or when no enemy's were inside the keep to use it against you.

I can appreciate that other professions have a similar situation, but at least those professions can put something down to do the job while they get to safety, or have a mid range weapon with a decent rate of fire that hits its intended target areas pretty quickly, while the point I'm going for is that the Guardians only long range attack, is a slow moving ball of light on the scepter that takes roughly 4-5x longer to reach it's target in terms of the keep doors, or the Orb of light on the staff which is also a slow moving projectile that has a cooldown and also easily dodged, which in PvP situations is pretty much redundant since any strafing enemy can dodge them easily.

Erring Ryft
01-05-2012, 02:06
Oh yeah, those skills seem powerful when used well, but guardian was still not an OP class by any means... at least not according to my PvE experience. It was strong and diverse, not OP.



See, now I thought the opposite, particularly with the greatsword. I tried an Elementalist, Mesmer, and Guardian this BWE, and the Guardian was by far the easiest for me to play. I suppose it could just be my playstyle, but there seems to be a significantly lower learning curve and a lot more forgiveness for the class (in PvE, at least). By the time I hit 13, I was running into groups of five enemies 2-3 levels higher than me, binding, pulling, and whirlying with the greatsword to watch them all topple.

It actually got to the point where I stopped using the g-sword because it just felt that ridiculously powerful. I much preferred the sword/torch combo, which was still strong, but didn't allow me to charge groups of enemies at once and come out the other side without trouble. Hammer was great, too, and I hate hammers (launching that enraged troll halfway across a farm field totally made it worth it, though).

Ranged Guardians feel okay - the staff and scepter both seem good, and smite is funny as hell to watch (OMG fists!), but they can't seem to hold a candle to the g-sword for damage (or possibly even to the hammer for control). The focus was the only thing that felt really meh to me, though.

Fluffball
03-05-2012, 03:12
I do think Guardian had some skills which may be exploited, by using a group of Guardians.

For instance, take 5 Guardians using Staff, lined up against a pile of melee foes. Guardian 1 puts down "Line of Warding" (which foes cannot pass through) and all the Guardians proceed to blast with their auto-attack "Wave of Wrath" (which can hit 5 foes). Every 5 seconds, the next Guardian puts up his "Line of Warding", maintaining the impenetrable barrier, and everyone continues doing their multi-target spammable attack. With 5 Guardians, that gives a full 25 seconds of immunity to melee, while laying down a lot of widespread damage. That seemed very exploitable... Even at relatively low levels, 5 Guardians using their spam skill would lay down close to 100 damage to each of the 5 targets, per use of skill. I think the skill goes 1 x per second, roughly, so thats a 2500 damage to 5 foes potential. If the foes aren't dead, they are surely weakened severely, and now have to face the fully healthy Guardians...

You could concoct a similar theoretical beat down with ANY five players though. Five hammer or mace warriors would keep people permanently stunned or knocked down, 5 thieves (hell, 1 thief) could keep a crowd blinded and crippled and dish out an absurd amount of damage in a compacted time, 5 mesmers could have 25 clones up, etc.

Erring Ryft
03-05-2012, 04:18
It also assumes that none of the opposing side would switch to a ranged weapon, or, you know, move.

Side note: Mesmers can have five clones? I always seemed to lose one after I'd summoned three. Coincidence, or is that a trait thing?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Alaris
03-05-2012, 05:58
3 clones. I know of no trait that changes that.

Fluffball
03-05-2012, 14:19
Does that include phantasms and any other illusions that may be possible? I could have sworn I read five total illusions. But I've never played a mesmer so I don't even know what the skills do.

Alaris
03-05-2012, 15:10
Yup. You have 3 little circles on the interface telling you how many clones & illusions you have active.

You can bring as many clone & phantasm skills as you want, but you can't have more than 3 active at a time.

5 clones would drop you to 16% chance of being hit by chance. Also, shatters would take longer to use at full power, and would be quite a bit more powerful at 5 than 1-2 illusions.

Egg Shennn
04-05-2012, 09:32
You could concoct a similar theoretical beat down with ANY five players though. Five hammer or mace warriors would keep people permanently stunned or knocked down, 5 thieves (hell, 1 thief) could keep a crowd blinded and crippled and dish out an absurd amount of damage in a compacted time, 5 mesmers could have 25 clones up, etc.

There is actually a big difference between holding a group of melee (and I'm talking about PVE, humans would get the hell out of the way) held behind a wall of invulnerability, and crippling them or knocking them down for 2 seconds every time their skill recharged. The point was, the Guardians would remain completely untouched, while doing waves of auto attack damage to 5 at a time. The guardian wall has no limit to the number of melee foes it could hold back. Other comparisons have other limits. just like in GW1 shadowform invulnerability was exploited, this has a similar application... Invulnerable is simply on a different level than the other options.

Fluffball
05-05-2012, 06:10
There is actually a big difference between holding a group of melee (and I'm talking about PVE, humans would get the hell out of the way) held behind a wall of invulnerability, and crippling them or knocking them down for 2 seconds every time their skill recharged. The point was, the Guardians would remain completely untouched, while doing waves of auto attack damage to 5 at a time. The guardian wall has no limit to the number of melee foes it could hold back. Other comparisons have other limits. just like in GW1 shadowform invulnerability was exploited, this has a similar application... Invulnerable is simply on a different level than the other options.

True, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying you're missing that 5 players of any class can do the same beat down. For example, and I keep using the thief because I learned it well, thieves can throw down a smoke screen that stops all projectiles as well as blinds all enemies that walk through it or stand in it as well as blind all enemies that get hit with projectiles that pass through it. See what I mean? :grin:

Warriors have mace AoE KDs, hammer AoE KDs, etc. Any group of 5 people can theoretically wreck some enemies.

Alaris
05-05-2012, 07:35
If 5 mesmers or necros keep summoning enough stuff, perhaps foes will never get to actually attack us.

Fluffball
05-05-2012, 08:01
I assume five necros make an absolute mess of PvE. I didn't play them but I just don't see how summoners can't NOT wreck the balance. They're on my "must play" list for BWE3. I want to do a lot of melee PvP next BWE.

Alaris
05-05-2012, 18:58
I found necro summons to be good, but they hold their own less than summons in other games. I get the impression that 5 necros or mesmers would be less OP than you'd imagine (still OP, but I imagine many team builds would be OP if there's good synergy or good abuse of given mechanics).

Sir Jack
05-05-2012, 20:48
It should be noted that range is not dependant on available weapons, the class and skill matters as well.

Longbow:
- Warrior Range: 900 for all 5 skills (Increase to 1200 if traited assumed)
- Ranger Range: 1200 for 4 skills, 600 for one, can be increased if traited, though exact amount is unknown

Rifle:
- Warrior Range: 1200 for 4 skills, 1 Point Blank
- Engineer: 2 400 skills, 1 800 skill, 2 1000 skills, increases to 1200 assumed if traited

So a Warrior is technically a better ranged fighter with a rifle than with a Longbow. Or they need to spend trait points to get the same basic range as a Ranger. We see the same for Engineer/Warrior when it comes to the rifle.

The other ranged martial weapons seem to be better balanced between the classes that use them:

Pistols:
- Engineer: 2 600 skills, 3 900 skills (both hands)
- Thief: 900 for all 5 skills (both hands pistols)

Shortbow:
- Thief: 900 for 4 skills, 1200 for Cluster Bomb
- Ranger: 900 for all

(numbers based on a tool since current wiki does not list ranges at all, though tool seems to contain some faults)

Basic staff range seems to be 1200 while scepter range is 900. Guardians get shafted a bit since the standard attack skill for staff is only 600. The rest of their skills have a better range though only 2 staff skills actually target a foe or create an area to damage a foe, and while his scepter skill all have a range of 900, his offhand choices are either in the 600 or point blank range.

Overall, the Guardian is limited to 900 with the scepter or some 1200 skills on recharge with the Staff while having only 600 most of the time. I'd say the other classes do have better ranged options available than the Guardian.

Fluffball
05-05-2012, 21:09
Interesting, about the ranges.

I could have sworn the thief's choking gas skill had the same range as the cluster bomb. Might be one of those faults, or maybe I'm wrong.

Alaris
05-05-2012, 22:35
1200 for long-range, 600-900 for medium range.

Afaik skill 2 for guardian staff has long range and can be spammed but you do need to let it go its whole way to get the range.

Erring Ryft
06-05-2012, 20:58
1200 for long-range, 600-900 for medium range.

Afaik skill 2 for guardian staff has long range and can be spammed but you do need to let it go its whole way to get the range.

Did you find that skill all that useful? I thought it was okay for a small heal on the melees, but the damage seemed pretty low for something that easy to dodge. Maybe it gets better at higher levels...

Alaris
07-05-2012, 03:07
Did you find that skill all that useful? I thought it was okay for a small heal on the melees, but the damage seemed pretty low for something that easy to dodge. Maybe it gets better at higher levels...

I was not happy with the staff, but I did not play it enough to judge if it was good. Rather, I switched to scepter and used that for ranged.

Come the next BWE or maybe later, I'll be giving each weapon a fair try before sticking to a set. I'll likely keep swapping back once in a while to keep my skills up to date with all weapons.