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Tyris Requiem
03-05-2012, 12:24
My issue is basically that the Skull Crack (SC) burst skill is a bad version of Earth Shaker (ES).

Both stun for the exact same time and both have identical recharges however ES is more powerful because it has alot more utility to it. ES has a big AoE so you can stun large groups, its also a targetable leap so you can use it as a closer or even a snare. To be blunt ES is incredibly strong, possibly even too strong and SC is quite mediocre in comparison.

It should be pointed out that main hand mace can be combined with an offhand where as hammer cannot so the stun can potentially be combined with many different skill setups, but even still SC seems rather lackluster when compared to the likes of Evicerate and Flurry.

I am by no means saying that SC is a terrible skill, 2 second stun is quite powerful. It just to me at least seems somewhat lacking (or maybe its just other bursts are OP idk.)

Fluffball
03-05-2012, 23:53
I think the point is the sum of the mace skills. Two KDs, a stun and a daze, that's crazy shutdown. One handed swords are about conditions and one handed axes are about AoE, so while the burst skills may be different to your liking, the overall purpose of the weapons I never felt like I could compare. Other than feeling quite squishy with dual axes.

raspberry jam
04-05-2012, 09:23
Yeah well. These two are not in the same slot, nor for the same weapon. So you can't compare them numerically.

Fluffball
04-05-2012, 13:11
Yeah well. These two are not in the same slot, nor for the same weapon. So you can't compare them numerically.

They're both in the F1 adrenaline slot, if that's what you meant.

raspberry jam
04-05-2012, 13:29
They're both in the F1 adrenaline slot, if that's what you meant.Eeeeeh yes. They are. Sorry. But they are still not for the same weapon. It's like comparing (GW1) Triple Chop with Hundred Blades. One is vastly better than the other but it doesn't matter because they are for different weapons.

Irakaz
04-05-2012, 19:14
I think one of the points being raised is the fact that they are they're not the same weapon. They should be offering contrasting styles. However both burst skills offer the same features. Except that earthshaker does the same thing while hitting multiple targets and having a greater range. Personally I think that earthshaker should have a knockdown instead of a stun.

RD
04-05-2012, 19:46
Why should Mace have the same benefits as Hammer? If you choose to bring Mace, you can bring another weapon / item to make up for what you are missing out on via Hammer.

There is a Mace skill that dazes your target - do you want that on the Hammer? There is also a Mace (off-hand) skill that knocks down enemies in a line. Do you also want that functionality added to Hammer Shock?

They're similar weapons, so the skills are similar, but the styles are different. Almost every hammer skill hits multiple foes (I actually seem to recall every attack on the hammer being AOE, but I could be wrong); almost every Mace skill is single foe. If you want the AOE that Hammer offers, bring a hammer. ANet had to differentiate the weapons somehow or there would be no point in giving both to Warriors.

I didn't get a Mace in the BWE, but presumably the single-target damage on the Mace is a bit higher. Anyone know if that's true?

Tyris Requiem
04-05-2012, 20:12
The damage on skull crack is about the same as a normal attack if not slightly higher, its nothing special though. Part of my issue is If I were to say run with Mace + Shield and Hammer. I get 2 bursts that stun and the mace one is obviously inferior. There are only a handful of bursts can't they give us bursts with varying functionalities?

Alaris
04-05-2012, 20:15
Pfft, you really need to consider the weapon as a whole (or weapon set, if applicable).

The only thing that would bother me (if I played warrior again) is the knowledge that one burst would be stronger than the other because once you spend your adrenaline, you can't swap and use the burst skill on the other weapon.

That initiative bugged me on thief as well. I like initiative generally, but each set should get its own.

RD
04-05-2012, 20:35
Well, we're still in beta, so maybe they'll increase the damage on Mace to compensate (or reduce it on Hammer).

I totally see your point, though. They just have to differentiate the weapons SOMEhow and it seems like the main difference is Single-Target v. AOE.

Alaris
04-05-2012, 20:44
It would make sense though that warrior has weapons with so similar functions (aside for single-target vs AoE, which is pretty important) because he has a lot of weapons to pick from especially melee. You get to pick out of 5 melee burst skills, that is, 2 from 2H weapons and 3 from 3 main-hand weapons.

Not counting off-hands, 5 different melee styles is hard to come up with, and from what I tried the melee weapons felt pretty different. 2H is AoE, swords is mobility, mace/hammers is control/shutdown, and axe is damage (AoE only).

I wish guardian had more weapon choices. Bow and axe would be nice.

Fluffball
05-05-2012, 05:04
I assume Tyris was talking about PvP, so to bring it back a bit, I think the difference is more potential shutdown via mace or more versatility via hammer. I could almost see both on swap. KD with mace at range, rush in and daze, then etc.

I played mostly PvE last BWE though, I want to play mostly PvP next BWE.