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  1. #1

    Some Annoying Things About Guild Wars / ANet Lately

    This could probably be considered a rant, but what the heck. I'll try and make it as constructive as possible. I'll also go ahead and say I still enjoy Guild Wars (I think), and that I'm glad ANet listens, more or less, to their players. I do think, overall, that ANet has done a pretty good job, but I'm starting to wonder if they have a real development plan outline, or if they're just reacting to whoever can cry foul the loudest however.

    A couple of things have been bothering me about Guild Wars lately. To the extent that I catch myself pondering them when I should be enjoying the game (such as now), and even looking at other upcoming games. I'll even admit to speaking to a friend about WoW lately. (The fact that I quickly came to my senses is irrelevant. :winking47) Some of these issue I think can be fixed, others, well, perhaps not. One even has nothing to do with the game itself, but rather the community. Naturally ANet can do little about that, but I do believe they can take steps to discourage it, if they wished. Anyhow, on with the ranting.

    1) Rushing to the Forge.
    Good grief, this has gotten out of hand, hasn't it? Does ANet wish this game to become like diablo 2 where you can get an end game character in less then a day? By not commenting on it, nor doing anything (so far) to discourage it, it certainly seems that way. I'm sure some folks will pop in and say rushing doesn't harm anyone, and that I , nor anyone else, has any right to enforce my play style on another paying customer. Fine. Just stay out of the pre-level 20 arenas, and don't try to join my South Shiverpeak groups while pretending to be a non-rushed character. Unfortunately this is why most folks do it in the first place.

    For the few folks that actually mean it when they say just want end-game armor to make the rest of the game easier; that is your opinion, and your choice. More power to you. However, for the seemingly majority that wish to grab the armor, capture a few easy elites, then go off back to the lowbie arena's so they can then go on and on about how they just 'pwned stupid n00bs!" . . . I hope you have a long and fulfilling life. :happy05:

    1a) Pretending to be a Non-Rusher to Get Groups.
    I'm getting really fed up of making groups in South Shiverpeaks, only to learn later on, usually disastrously, that half the group lied about being rushers. Its always fun to learn your elementalist, or necro, or whatever doesn't have any of the skills past Yak's bend. Its almost as fun as learning the monk you brought along for healing doesn't have any res skill beyond the signet. Of course there are henchmen to do missions with, but there are also a lot of other more engaging single player, and tci/ip co-op multi-player games, too, for that matter. Besides, I've already finished the game using mostly henchmen. With my second character I'd hope to group more folks beyond the group I came into the game with. Apparently this is a mistake on my part.

    1b) The Ascalon and Yak's Random 4vs4 Arenas have become Mirrors of the Level 20 Arenas. The only minor difference is people only have 300ish health, compared to 480. Was this intended ANet? I was always under the impression these arenas were created for folks to try out new character ideas without having to worry about having all the elite skills, armor, and weapons. Guess not, eh? I'm assuming so since there's still been no mention of it, nor changes prvent it. Personally, I cannot put to words how much fun it is going from pre-searing to the Ascalon arena and facing folks using Forge armor infused with perfect rune combinations, chaos axes, and stormbows. Honestly, I can't.

    1c) "WTB Rush!! I Rush! I Rush Better!" spam.
    Sort of self explanatory. All that is missing now is a few trade channel bots (Oh, wait ), and a cow level. I find myself wondering how many Rush-threads the mods of various forums have to delete (or if they even bother now). Seeing as how much the recent "Who's the coolest rusher!" stuff has been popping up everywhere lately, I'm willing to bet a lot.

    2) Making the Game Quicker, and Easier.
    This is something I really did not notice until I went through the game a second time. As far as I know, ANet has made no mention of such changes. Which seems to go against their "No hidden changes! guideline. I can't set down and argue this point by point, but I can say that I noticed a significant reduction in mission difficulty overall. Ranging from added allies, to missing monster patrols, to even seemingly huge reductions in monster health, damage, and defense. Someone else can probably point out some more specific examples then I, but the one that seemed the most obvious to me was the Riverside Mission.

    I did this mission recently with my standard group of friends (all on our second characters). We weren't level 20, we didn't have any elites, nor end-game armor, weapons, or even runes above minors. Regardless, the mission was a breeze. The first time we did this mission (over a month ago) we had to pull, lure, watch patrols, and run if we got more then 4-5 at a time. This time however, we tried to lure and found out that is was, more or less, a waste of time not to rush. Overall most things could barely hurt us, let alone out damage our healing abilities, and seemed to die extremely quickly. It took us around 20+ tries on our first character, this time we obviously finished it in one without much effort.

    A more direct example would be near the end of the mission, when we were almost wiped out due to an unexpected bit of lag, that resulted in one player and henchies rushing into the two towers by the rope bridge. With only my Mo/R alive, we recovered easily. All that was required was for me to solo two groups, each consisting of two level 20 justicars, and a level 18 abbot. Using apply poison, and barbed trap, this took about... 5 minutes I believe. This was drastically different from the experience my E/Mo had weeks ago when trying to solo a single justicar.

    3) Increased Drops / Easier to Obtain Elites
    Despite this supposedly horrid anti-farming stuff, I've noticed a vast increase in drops on my second play through. It seems like every time I drop an ettin or a giant, there is a purple or gold armor/item waiting. Elite skills, as I've posted before, are more or less effortless to obtain. Merely find the boss, kill, use signet, repeat. Some folks wanted it this way, others didn't. I can accept it, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it, and all of that. These arent too much of a problem I suppose, but I figure it was worth tacking on anyway, due the following.

    My reason for pointing these out things out was due to believing that these changes were made to make the Oh so difficult PvE easier for the folks complaining about wanting to just PvP. Which is fine, except the recent mention of an update allowing PvP characters to unlock items through PvP seems to be an infinitely better way of handling this. So... Does this mean that these changes made to make PvE quicker and easier will be reverted, or stopped in the case of rushing, now that there is a much better alternative? I would like to think so. Even so, doubt it'll happen.

    I do think stopping rushing would make the PvP option a little more appealing. As when it comes down to it, most people will always pick the easier route. And no matter how easy you make unlocking skills in PvP, it'll never compare to how easy it currently is to be rushed, then go SoC a few bosses, and running through the (now) incredibly easy missions.

    4)ANet's Update Outline
    While the other problems are things I've actually experienced, this one is a bit more subjective. Nevertheless, I do find myself thinking about it more and more. This isn't a PvE vs PvP issue, or anything of the like, not to myself anyhow. I won't try and speak for everyone though.

    Anyhow, I'm under the impression that ANet's main goal right now is Observer mode, seemingly at the cost of other things. Namely balance changes (easy pve), gameplay additions (whatever happen to those two new areas at e3?) skill balance/oversights (HoH is a good place to start looking), and so on have taken a bit of a backseat. After oberserver mode, we'll hopefully get the PvP changes, which I can enjoy despite not being exactly what I was looking for in the game, and then, judging from ANet's comments, I'm guessing yet another elite armor set or some similar time/money sink.

    That last one is a bit frustrating in particular, as the last thing I think the PvE game currently needs is more things akin to that. I'm not asking ANet for the moon here, I merely would like to see some effort directed toward some of the current possible problems before adding new, somewhat shallow, additions to the mix. Even as little as a brief mention that they consider random problem X to be, or not be, a problem would suffice. Just some kind of base communication, either acknowledgement, or dismissal, would do.

    Maybe I'm wrong on this, and I hope I am, but it does seem awfully similar to my friend's complaints about Blizzard ignoring WoW's supposed problems, so they could focus on Battlegrounds development. Different issues, different games, sure, but it does seem like a similar mind set.
    ----
    That was more or less the big issues that I've ran across lately. I'm sure I, as well as others, can add even more if pressed. Some folks might not think these are actual problems, while others will think they're even worse then I depict them. Even so, I figure its not fair to complain without mentioning a few suggestions towards solving them. Although, I'm sure these, too, could create issues.

    1) Prevent rushing. Seems pretty easy when you think about it like that. Merely plug Lornar's, or at the least make it difficult enough as to where not just any warrior or monk can do it. Heck, maybe make it a quest or something. Just so long as there is an actual challenge involved for such a reward. In my own experience, I had a more difficult time going from Riverside to Fisherman's, then I did going from North Shiverpeaks to Camp Rancor. That seems silly.

    For the PvP Arenas, merely adding level reqs to armor, elite skills, weapons, or all three should work. Or even simply flagging any character that traverses beyond the region (Ascalon for the Ascalon Arena, North Shiverpeaks for Yaks) with a variable that prevents them from entering the arena, could do the job. Folks would still mule end-game weapons off to their characters, but since its not easy (comparitively) to meet the reqs for the weapons at these levels, its not completely as unlimited as armor, and non-variable elite skills.

    2) Put the challenge back into the game! Not as simple as it sounds I realize, but still possible I think. Maybe something could be done with mission/quest difficulty scaling. For example if you enter into an Ascalon mission with a level 20, then the majority of the enemies would be level 20+. This would both add challenge, as well as a bit of replay ability. If nothing else, at least give the poor Justicars (and other critters) their old health totals back, its... embarrassing to see them die so quickly now.

    3) More or less ties itself to the above, I think.

    4) A Bit difficult to suggest a fix here, as I mentioned its could all just be subjective on my part. Perhaps going back to the amount of pre-retail communication could help out some. It'd certainly clear up more confusion then a random blurb on the Update page, and the redundant fan site Friday interviews, at any rate. If my paranoia by some chance is correct, then thinking about how to fix current problems could be a bit more productive in the long run compared to adding minor additions here and there.

    I'm sure some folks will disagree, shout randomly, threaten me with blunt objects, talk about WWII, politics or even add their own problems in the following pages, should anyone bother to suffer through reading all of this. Regardless, these are just a few things I've noticed when playing lately. I'm not sure if they can actually be debated or not, since I tend to trust my own eyes, but I'm sure everyone has their own views about 'em.
    Last edited by Mraezk; 25-06-2005 at 22:21. Reason: Oops, got my numbers and directions crossed. :)

  2. #2
    GWOnline.Net Member Sclopper's Avatar
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    228
    for the number 2 in the gates of kryta mission theres a missing Huge mob at the end you know the one in the swamps at the end by the boss they didnt come out at all for my last time doing it

  3. #3
    GWOnline.Net Member aqualung's Avatar
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    11
    Excellent points. Hopefully, more meaningful content will be able to be added after PvE and PvP become more seperated after the next patch, decreasing the pressure on ANet to allow rushing or make the game easier. I also hope that we might see the introduction of some slightly better gear as something to strive for, not just a new armor look, now that not everything in PvE needs to be perfectly balanced for PvP. However, more powerful items might cause dismay among players that plan on PvPing at the end of PvE, though this could be mitigated somewhat by making this new content somewhat less effective in PvP than PvE, however that could be done, but with most of the very serious PvPers moving to PvP mode only (which I hope the patch will accomplish) the need for balance at the expense of variety, I think many of those remaining PvEers would agree, is gone.

  4. #4
    You really have great points, and I understand your opinion, however your playstyle is nothing like mine so I cannot agree.

    I didn't buy the game to spend countless hours grinding for the things I need with all my characters, although I don't grief...

    I like the fact that this game isn't all time-consuming and difficult (ie long and tedious).

    Also, as to the game seeming easier, I honestly believe that when you first start playing it's much more difficult, and the knowledge and experience you obtain makes the missions easier. The AI in this game is NOT complex, it's very easy to learn the patterns, even if you're not conscience of it. Perhaps it would be better if they added more low level content, although I don't see that happening.

    Overall while I understand your rant and the reasons, it seems your personal dissatisfaction is your own, and wouldn't be reflected with the majority of the player base. This isn't meant to be a game where you can get enjoyment out of repeating the same tasks, it's about casually playing and relaxing so you can enjoy it while it's there, and be happy when new content rolls around. Most people don't have problems or view your problems as actual issues, and so to press forward with new content is going to please the majority of people who are satisfied, rather than wasting time trying to please the finicky minority.

  5. #5
    Spiper
    Guest

    One hit wonder

    Well the game is a one hit wonder they said this and that in beta and seems like they are more focused on mantaining the game then furthering the quests of the game. I do realize that the game is called Guild Wars and mostly focus's on Guilds doing battle but i see very few posts about ladders or competion.

    If i am mistaken most people like the game not the guild or clan battles. I think we should have a poll on this.

    I really feel the game is dieing and everyday i see mistakes in the game kinda hard to believe the game dies before they can get it bug free.

    P.S. The group thing sucks bad i always get 2 morons in my group and then i spend 10-15 minutes finding a group they should have put more thought into this like make a group area or more drops for the people that put more of an effort into the missions.

    Example:
    healer= more healing = better drops
    warrior= more attacking = better drops
    Last edited by Spiper; 25-06-2005 at 23:18.

  6. #6
    GWOnline.Net Member Domino's Avatar
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    258
    3) Increased Drops / Easier to Obtain Elites
    Despite this supposedly horrid anti-farming stuff, I've noticed a vast increase in drops on my second play through. It seems like every time I drop an ettin or a giant, there is a purple or gold armor/item waiting. Elite skills, as I've posted before, are more or less effortless to obtain. Merely find the boss, kill, use signet, repeat. Some folks wanted it this way, others didn't. I can accept it, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it, and all of that. These arent too much of a problem I suppose, but I figure it was worth tacking on anyway, due the following.
    I disagree... the drop system as-is is freaking terrible. It's the most random, unrewarding system I've ever seen implemented in an online game. It's bad enough that most of the items in GW are mediocre, at best, but items don't drop!

    My friends and I, cleared the entire volcanic island one day, and all we had to show for it was some gold and starter-level weapons that no one that area would ever consider using. I must have done the Glint mission at least 5 in a row now, and I'm lucky if I clear 500 gold and some mediocre crafting materials.

    I don't remember the last time I saw an orange item drop since this latest patch. Parties of mine have killed hordes after hordes of monsters (not farming, but just walking around) and NOTHING DROPS... Little piles of Gold of usually 60-100, are the only consistant drop... and you divide that 8 ways, well you do the math.

    If anyone from A-net is reading this, Guild Wars needs a much larger selection of items, and a completely revamped drop system. Right now, it's simply terrible.

  7. #7
    GWOnline.Net Member
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    3,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Sclopper
    for the number 2 in the gates of kryta mission theres a missing Huge mob at the end you know the one in the swamps at the end by the boss they didnt come out at all for my last time doing it
    They're not exactly missing...The mission has been kinda broken.

    Did you notice the guy you're helping clear the swamp (Hablion, I think?) takes off and runs away from the swamp before you engage the first set of enemies? Somehow, that's not what I remember happening back when I first played this mission.

    For that second set of enemies, they're actually around. They just take forever to show up now, so if you move at any reasonable speed you get through to the boss before they arrive (And they're a smaller pack than they used to be) So they have been made much easier, but not totally removed.

    For the OP, I agree with everything really. I think the most frustrating (For having fun playing through the PvE, others are more serious) is how the game has indeed gotten easier. If you want an undebateable example, look at Althea's Ashes. Initially in the temple guarded by two bosses with another up on the pyramid, it was first moved to a horrifyingly charr filled region...that then had half its enemies yanked and the rest scattered. If that's not dumbing down, I don't know what is :P The argument that I'm getting better doesn't apply very well, by the end of the betas I was nearly as skilled as I am now, and some of the missions then seem like they were a lot harder than they are now.
    Last edited by salaboB; 25-06-2005 at 23:22.

  8. #8
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    151
    Better drops wow i'm playing a different game then.The drops suck period,i went 6 nights in the UW recently for at least six hours each time and not one good drop.I have not had a single decent drop on any of my four characters for at least a month.

  9. #9
    I respect the OP opinions, however, I disagree wholeheartedly with it.

    As to the rushing to the forge point, I think that the fact you have people who have taken it upon themselves to start taxi services from beacon's to droknar should be applauded. That's entrepreneurial(sp?) spirit, and I say good show.

    And there are some people( such as myself) who are fed up grinding all the way through the game. Or waiting forever to get the elites. So for me it makes more sense to get run to Droknar's then to waste my time going through the "normal" way.

    Also, you seem to be complaining about people who get rushed to the forge solely for the armor and then go back to the lower level arena's to own everyone. But what about those of us who will never use the arena's? Quite frankly, put in item restrictions for arena's so that is not a problem but do not eliminate the option for those of us who have beat the game and no longer want to slog it out. Because after doing missions/ areas a dozen times, well, you cannot help but learn where the mobs are, and adapt. Even if you do it subconsciously you do adapt to the areas after doing them multiple times.

    And as to drops, it is so completely random that it is not funny. You might get a lot of "good" drops, but that by no means means it is across the board. The drop system is fairly crappy in its current incarnation and it can only be hoped that it will be improved radically. Because whereas some people get a lot of "good" drops, there are others that get nothing ( and I have had both types of characters, from my monks that got next to nothing, to my necro who had a great run of luck)

  10. #10
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    94
    Quote Originally Posted by Domino
    I disagree... the drop system as-is is freaking terrible. It's the most random, unrewarding system I've ever seen implemented in an online game. It's bad enough that most of the items in GW are mediocre
    This is one of my favorite aspects of Guild Wars. No matter how much farmers or item sellers try to make change it... this game isn't item centric.

    I enjoy the idea that my character's skill is based on my own as well as the abilities he has and not just cause he has some uber magic axe.

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