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  1. #1

    Expertise on the Front Page

    The Expertise stat page has been updated. Previously the data and graph were formatted to round the energy cost to the nearest whole number, however that was misleading as Guild Wars does handle fractions of energy points. The data table and graph now properly represent the energy costs to a single decimal place.
    Whoa, when did this happen? As far as I'm seeing, all of the Expertise reductions are rounded to the nearest Integer, as I'm testing it right now. Who sent this information in and had Tarrant Rahl change it?

    EDIT: I ran a FRAPS movie and looked at different Expertise points frame-by-frame. It still looks like nearest integer to me rather than decimal. I'd like someone else to verify this?
    Last edited by hahnsoo; 31-07-2005 at 04:10.
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

  2. #2
    Can you clarify how you analyzed the frames to determine Expertise reduction is integral?

    I'm thinking this might not be an easy theory to disprove, since the assumption that the energy bar corresponds to your exact energy level is a pretty strong one. Ideally we would use some display-independent event (like "You do not have enough energy to cast"), but it could get pretty messy.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mind Wallaby
    Can you clarify how you analyzed the frames to determine Expertise reduction is integral?

    I'm thinking this might not be an easy theory to disprove, since the assumption that the energy bar corresponds to your exact energy level is a pretty strong one. Ideally we would use some display-independent event (like "You do not have enough energy to cast"), but it could get pretty messy.
    First, I stretched my Energy bar across the screen. Then I removed all armor, leaving me at 20 Energy and 2 Regen. Then while recording, I cast Troll Unguent when my Energy is full and did separate recordings while I reduced my Expertise from a base level of 11 down to 7 (just below the 3 Energy breakpoint). Using the recorded video, I advanced frame by frame until I found the point at which the Energy bar is reduced from casting. Noting how much Energy is drawn by taking a screenshot of the paused video, I did this for each level of Expertise. At 8 -> 7, there is a major jump in the Energy bar, indicating a significantly larger increase of Energy consumption. At the other levels (8 to 11), there was no significant difference.
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

  4. #4
    Sorry for the double post, but here's the picture evidence that Expertise rounds to the nearest breakpoint. There are small discrepancies in the frame capture, of course, but I matched it as best as I could. There is a clear "break" between the 7 -> 8 Expertise, where 16 Energy and 17 Energy is consumed respectively, and then no linear gradient between all of the Expertise points:
    http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6...isework3rr.jpg

    It's not as good as, say, timing the Energy regen from using a skill at Expertise points and presenting the numbers, but it's pretty close.

    EDIT: Changed the picture so that it doesn't have my IGN. :-P Sorry, I just like my privacy.
    Last edited by hahnsoo; 31-07-2005 at 06:35.
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

  5. #5
    I was under the impression that the expertise update was done so that things like quickening zephyr could be more accurately calculated.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Colretsun Andolin
    I was under the impression that the expertise update was done so that things like quickening zephyr could be more accurately calculated.
    That doesn't change the fact that the table is wrong, as far as in-game behavior and Energy breakpoints for skills. Quickening Zephyr also rounds to the nearest Energy unit as well, and I believe you multiply all of the Energy costs together anyway, rounding to the nearest Energy unit, making any such table rather redundant when it comes to calculations.

    In any case, I've message Tarrant Rahl about it, perhaps to shed some light on why it was changed (possibly giving folks a lot of misinformation).
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

  7. #7
    I believe you multiply all of the Energy costs together anyway, rounding to the nearest Energy unit, making any such table rather redundant when it comes to calculations.
    Wrong. Much to my dismay, it works like this: Energy Cost * 1.3 (QZ), round to nearest integer, * (1-.04*Expertise Rank), round to nearest integer.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelc
    Wrong. Much to my dismay, it works like this: Energy Cost * 1.3 (QZ), round to nearest integer, * (1-.04*Expertise Rank), round to nearest integer.
    I stand corrected. However, this still means the table on the GWOnline page is wrong for rounding to the nearest decimal, although further posts are probably futile tonight, as the GWOnline staff are probably all blissfully asleep, unaware of the demons they have awakened. :)
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

  9. #9
    wouldn't it be easier to test if you popped on some monk -pip enchants?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ubernesss
    wouldn't it be easier to test if you popped on some monk -pip enchants?
    *smacks forehead* Yup. I even suggested it previously when this subject came up before. It's late. :-P Maybe I should start up on those easier screenshots.

    EDIT: Alright, here it is. I tested using Divine Boon, Balthazar's Spirit, and Blessed Aura. Three Enchantments were soaking all of my pips of Energy Regen, so whatever value it goes down to will stay static. I used Blessed Signet to regain Energy to full after every test. I used Troll Unguent as my Testing skill, and tested from Expertise 13 down to Expertise of 7. I had a Rune of Minor Expertise on at the time. The results show a clear "breakpoint" progression, similar to the one used by GWOnline previously, rounding to the nearest integer. Yellow lines added for emphasis. I might be a pixel or two off on the alignment, but if it was a true linear progression, then we'd see a gradual increase in Energy costs as Expertise goes down in value.
    Last edited by hahnsoo; 31-07-2005 at 09:13.
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

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