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  1. #1
    IFX
    Guest

    Is N/W really viable?

    I'd like to ask a question to you seasoned players: Is N/W a viable PVE option?

    I've read many posts here about N/W builds that work according to the poster, mainly revolving around blood-spells like Vampiric Touch, occasional Vampiric Gaze, Unholy Feast for area life-steal or maybe Grenth's Balance.

    Some buils use curses instead, like Insidious Parasite and Parasitic Bond, with some debuffing curse to limit the enemy's effectiveness.

    These necro skills are then paired with W attacks like Sever Artery and Gash, or Galrath Slash and Final Thrust and the like, depending on the weapon of choice.

    I tried myself a N/W build with a max dmg fellblade and a +12 energy blood focus, with 1.5k bonelace armor and bloodstained boots, all in all a pretty standard equipment for a lvl20 char.

    I used:
    Vamp Gaze
    Vamp Touch
    Sever Artery
    Flurry
    Power Attack (still have to get Galrath Slash)
    Life Siphon
    Well of Blood
    Resurrection Signet.

    I tested it for some time; what made me think I was doing something wrong was that a pretty standard desert monster like a Rockshot Devourer was inflicting some 25-30 dmg to me with a normal attack, while i was dealing some 8-10 dmg to him with a normal slash, plus it kept interrupting my Vamp Touches. :(

    I was dealing decent damage only when using attack skills, but the damage those could do was comparable to the dmg he was inflicting to me with a normal strike.
    I know Necros are not meant to tank, but I thought necro powers could circumvent this problem a little.

    I do not really know a lot about warriors, but I know that I was inflicting far more dmg with my blood-curse build.

    Before I decide to spend in 1.5k Tormentor's to get an armor rating of 70, I want to know if N/W is fun and viable.
    Any help or criticism is welcome, sorry for the long post, I hope that was not boring; thanks in advance for any help.

  2. #2
    GWOnline.Net Member Valice's Avatar
    Posts

    368
    Most N/Ws aren't doing damage with their normal attack, and instead use a lower level sword (I myself use some 3 Swdmanship sword from a quest in Ascalon, and I'm level 19 and in the desert :D), like, for example, to trigger Mark of Pain (I'm a Curses-oriented N/W).

    Instead, concentrate on using your spells to deal the brunt of your damage. Here's what I use:

    Flurry
    Mark of Pain
    Plague Sending (swappable for things when I need to)
    Parasitic Bond
    Insidious Parasite
    Spiteful Spirit
    Enfeebling Blood
    Res

  3. #3
    Having played an N/W from the beginning of the game until the end (well, occasionally moonlighting as an N/Mo, but that was only going back over places I'd already been), I can rather confidently say that N/W is viable for the entire PvE game. The "Blood & Steel" thread has a number of good operative suggestions for playing N/W, although in many places it's more geared to starting the game as one than moving into the endgame.

    Your damage, per hit, is usually not going to be what a warrior can manage; that's because you lack the armor penetration of Strength, which offers a much higher bonus against more heavily-armored targets. Against casters, you'll notice only a slight drop in damage compared to a warrior; against warriors, however, that lack of armor penetration will really hurt you. Luckily, however, there are many effects that are triggered per melee hit. This is why a Zealous weapon can be such a good investment for an N/W - you can easily use melee for scads of Energy, which can be funneled into spammable attacks like Vile Touch.

    Obviously, any build is going to require a fair bit of balance and adjustment before you'll be altogether happy with it. N/W requires a bit more tuning than most, but it can sing quite nicely.
    -FR
    (as long as you aren't trying to cast Blood is Power on everyone around you, at least...)
    "When engaged in battle, the true warrior thinks only of her goal. Between her and her objective, no obstacle may lie. She is like a river, powerful and relentless; if she cannot find a way, she will make one."
    [- Freawaru Gavinrad (N/W) -|- Rosemary Gavinrad (W/R) -|- Nieve Gavinrad (Me/R) -|- Cordelia Merlose (R/E) -]
    [- Quest Complete -|- Not A Necromancer -|- Support GWOnline.net -]

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Valice
    Flurry
    Mark of Pain
    Plague Sending (swappable for things when I need to)
    Parasitic Bond
    Insidious Parasite
    Spiteful Spirit
    Enfeebling Blood
    Res
    If you are in sword range why Plague Sending (10 energy) vs Plague Touch (5, spammable)?

  5. #5
    GWOnline.Net Member tigercan's Avatar
    Posts

    712
    Since you'll be in close and getting hit a lot and don't have the protection that warriors do you'll either need really good self-heals, or some way to reduce the damage done to you.

    Shadow of Fear & Enfeebling Blood are great options there - throw them both on a mob and you're reducing the damage they do by well over 50%.

    As mentioned, Mark of pain is awesome - just make sure you have a physical damage weapon (not like those fiery dragon swords of overratedness)
    Flurry can really help boost the damage of MoP too.

    All those skills are in the curse line, so you might want to take a look at reinvesting some points. Parasitic Bond is a very nice spammable self heal - cast it on something that's nearly dead and you'll get the life back pretty much right away.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Freawaru
    Your damage, per hit, is usually not going to be what a warrior can manage; that's because you lack the armor penetration of Strength, which offers a much higher bonus against more heavily-armored targets.
    Actually, on regular hits you'll be doing the same damage as a Warrior primary, since Strength only add's to damage and armor penetration on special attacks. And since the majority (of what I've noticed) N/W's use sword skills for the degen properties, you'll be doing comparable damage to a sword using Warrior primary in many aspects. I've done alot of compare and contrast between both my Warr primary and my N/W characters, just working out how much the damage compares between the two, it's been an ongoing project of mine simply because I refuse to admit that N/W's are an inferior combination (as many people like to insist, I constantly hear us refered too as the "red headed stepchildren" of GW).

  7. #7
    IFX
    Guest
    I wanted to thank you for your contribution and and also ask about 1 more problem N/Ws must face: how to counter the obvious fragility of a caster-char?
    I'm thinking about massed Avicara archers your curses won't be able to reach, because they're spread out and cowering behind their brothers, shooting out exploding missiles with wild abandon.

    I was about to buy a 1.5k Tormentor's armor for an armor rating of 70, I presume all of your N/W chars are using that, but how am I going to endure all the punishment a W can take?
    What troubles me is the fact that I might end up as a B-series char who is not really an asset for the team, and all too frequently ends up as a usable corpse for fellow necros.
    I've never seen an experienced N/W in action and I really don't know what they can accomplish, but I'm thrilled by the idea of making one that can work :)

    As always whatever help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  8. #8
    GWOnline.Net Member Valice's Avatar
    Posts

    368
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
    If you are in sword range why Plague Sending (10 energy) vs Plague Touch (5, spammable)?
    Cause Plague Sending is also spammable, and it works on more than one enemy at once. I tend to be fighting more than 2 enemies at one time, so it's more cost-effective. I also use it just out of aggro range if i have a condition that lasts till the next fight.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by IFX
    I wanted to thank you for your contribution and and also ask about 1 more problem N/Ws must face: how to counter the obvious fragility of a caster-char?
    The short version is that you don't. The long version is still "you don't," but there's the caveat that you really don't need to for the most part.

    First of all, it's clear that Necromancers were intended to be third down the list in terms of durability when they wanted it - they're the only caster class with a melee armor type that doesn't reduce their energy pool, and indeed the only one with an armor that breaks the 60 AL barrier, albeit with reduced defense against light attacks. This is not as crippling as it might sound in PvE - most if not all of the MNK-type enemies you'll be facing will be oriented toward healing, rather than offensive casting. Retribution is probably the biggest danger you'll face. I have not determined if the defense drop is cumulative, part-specific, or global, although I'm tempted to believe the last.

    Aura of the Lich and Demonic Flesh will both allow you to expand the amount of damage you can take before expiration. Stacking both together will give you a very respectable amount of health that takes half damage from all sources... do the math. You've also got at least enough spare points to spare a few for a decent AL shield - you're looking for the highest armor value possible with the lowest possible Tactics requirement, unless you're investing in Tactics for skills. I managed to snag an 11 Armor gold shield from Mergoyles outside of the Gates of Kryta, although the odds of it emerging again are admittedly low. Still, they're out there.

    However, at the core, you are not going to be attempting to match warriors blow-for-blow. You shouldn't be rushing in when the warriors do their first break for the front lines - rather, you should be doing a bit of early casting, then mixing it up in melee after the meatshields have taken the brunt of the enemy attention. Although it's possible for an N/W to tank with the right build, it's a bit counterproductive, and far better to focus instead on just being able to take a few hits when you need to.
    -FR
    (you are supposed to be the smarter one, please do act it)
    "When engaged in battle, the true warrior thinks only of her goal. Between her and her objective, no obstacle may lie. She is like a river, powerful and relentless; if she cannot find a way, she will make one."
    [- Freawaru Gavinrad (N/W) -|- Rosemary Gavinrad (W/R) -|- Nieve Gavinrad (Me/R) -|- Cordelia Merlose (R/E) -]
    [- Quest Complete -|- Not A Necromancer -|- Support GWOnline.net -]

  10. #10
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    1,055
    you can always go death

    sever artery+ gash+ virulence


    but the curse line is really the best with MoP, shadow of fear, enfeeble/enfeebling blood, barbs, weaken armor etc

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