Im running a flameslinger and im tinkering like crazy to suit my style and want to know what will do the most damage.
Assuming energy is not an issue, which will i do the most damage with:
A: kindle and conjure flame
B: only kindle
That is, i want to know which will do the most damage in each situation.
Could someone calculate damage for me assuming i have 12 marks 13 WS and 8 fire magic? (remember dual has 5 sec recharge and pentrating has 3) Maybe use a 15 second time frame (lowest common denominator). I would appreciate it a ton. :happy34:
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Thread: Dual or Pentrating
13-10-2005, 05:41 #1
Dual or Pentrating
13-10-2005, 05:49 #2
Uhm, no real specific stats, but if u can get conjure to do 10 extra and kindle to 20 extra, dual does a hefty amount of dmg.
13-10-2005, 11:15 #3
I don't know how well this question can be answered without knowing:
- the type of bow (or, more accurately, the speed of the bow)
- the AL of the target
The first will determine how many 'normal' attacks you will be able to take in between the use of each of the skills. With higher AL, Penetrating Attack becomes more effective, while Dual Shot becomes less so.
If you assume everything is absolutely perfect, and you ignore 'normal' attacks, over the 15 second interval you have:
Dual Shot gets in 4 attacks (at 0, 5, 10, and 15)
Penetrating Attack gets in 6 attacks (at 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15)
This means Dual Shot will have the Conjure Flame and Kindle Arrows applied 8 times, while Penetrating only does 6. However, the damage for arrows on Dual Shot are reduced by 25%, while the damage for arrows from Penetrating Attack are increased by 15 (plus an additional 20% armor penetration).
Using just the flat damage modifiers:
With Conjure Flame:
- Dual Shot = (21 x 8) + (9 + 8) = 240
- Penetrating Attack = (21 x 6) + (9 x 6) + (15 x 6) = 270
Without Conjure Flame:
- Dual Shot = (21 x 8) = 168
- Penetrating Attack = (21 x 6) + (15 x 6) = 216
It looks like Penetrating Attack does more in either instance. This is without taking into consideration the -25% arrow damage from Dual Shot, and the +20% armor penetration from Penetrating Attack, which would tip the scales toward Penetrating Attack even more. So, Penetrating Attack seems to do more damage over time, while Dual Shot is better at spiking damage. Remember, this is all theory, so in practice, its probably a bit different.
13-10-2005, 20:34 #4
ok, first off, you can't just say energy isn't an issue, because sure you wanna know which would be more effective, but it doesn't matter because energy is an issue. You can't just rule out energy. Your energy is going to run dry instantly without any expertise. As for which is better, if your using /e then you might as well get the extra damage from conjure, personally i don't like it, cause then yoou are gonna be spread thin between marks, exp, ws, and fire. It depends on bow speed and target al. Dual shot is gonna be more effective on casters because damage won't be reduced as much, but on warriors or rangers with drake, eles with pyro, then pen is gonna be more effective. Most spike builds call for dual over pen because pen does add damage, but it doesn't stack the damage the build is based around, so it usualy isn't as effective. It's really up to you, but you can't just rule out energy. Also if i were you i would drop fire magic, go full ranger, and put 8 in expertise, so you can actually use the build and be able to spike more than once before you have no energy left.
Just my $0.02
-Warrior of Faith
13-10-2005, 21:43 #5Originally Posted by WarriorOFfaith
I've tried the flameslinger build several ways, and the meager damage boost I get from Conjure Flame has never once seemed worth the sacrifice to my attribute points - throwing all those points into the fire line for a single skill is terribly inefficient. I'd just go pure ranger, and boost your Wilderness high enough to compensate for the damage lost - it will only be the difference of a couple points, and at the very least you'll now have a much more powerful Troll's to keep you alive.
14-10-2005, 01:59 #6
Only time you use fire line from ele secondary, you drop ws, and you use mark of rodgort, conjure, and a firey bow string.
14-10-2005, 03:14 #7
Ive managed to run a very effective flameslinger using cojure flame and dual shot (maybe the 5 sec recharge kept the energy price down) at 10 exp for the 6 energy cutoff. The other skills i ran with it worked great for pure damage production and generaly opponent irritation with very few energy probs.
When i dorp conj flame and if i get my Exp to 13, then spaming pen shot every other shot with a short bow (works out just right timing wise) is no problem at all energy wise.
Dropping conjure also opens up a slot for me to use distracting in pvp which im now finding as well worth taking a small in direct damage production. However, i do miss the huge damage spike with con flme + kindle + dual on softer targets, BUT, it is great to be able to finnaly hit R and W hard. Main point is, energy consuption is not a prob either way.
....So its established that PS is better against high armored targets, but what i was unsure of was in a constant barrage, which will pile on the most damage to targets of differing armor, (or soft targets as they are the unknown), when taking the skill recharge time into account.
Anyway, thnx for the info so far. On a related tangent, I think i finnaly figured out my versatility build for random pvp. If anyone is interested, maybe ill post it later for community scrutiny.
14-10-2005, 07:15 #8
Originally Posted by WarriorOFfaith
remember to add glyph lesser energy because rodgort just eats all the rangers nrgy up, also u will get enuf nrgy to take down another nme or two with rodgort