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  1. #121
    GWOnline.Net Member jeffmeyer's Avatar
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    52
    For what its worth heres my 2 cents.

    I have been playing since release, mainly PvE with an exceptional 40+ member PvE guild whom I/we have a great time together playing the game and helping newer guildies progress through the PvE side of the game.

    As a guild we have competed with success in 4v4 team arenas but dont have the members interested or on consistently to compete in Tombs as a guild.

    Hence I have started playing tombs by myself because I want the experience of 8v8 and the chance to win HoH, the one thing I have not completed in game.

    Take my W/Mo into tombs spam endlessly for group...nothing...finally get into group of most likely similar players and then wait around to complete the team, we do, get into tombs get pwned....FUN FUN FUN. Rinse Repeat!!!

    Ok then I start a monk to hopefully get into more teams quicker. It works... GREAT. Get into tombs pwned. OK OK maybe its me. Try Bonder, Strict prot., Strict heal, combo monk, smiter.....pwned, pwned, pwned.....now this is boring.

    Dam I hate this, PUG after PUG after PUG is pwned by Sacc teams, IWAY teams, Spike Teams, Corrdinated Guild Teams....this is enough to drive me to start playing a new game!!!!

    Screw it Iam gonna break down and join an IWAY team......

    I get into team very quickly .....GREAT...Dont need to show some stupid *** deer emote to prove to some punk that Iam a good player (which by the way I am!!!).

    Friendly group...they explain the build and what I should take (although I know the basics for IWAY) we enter tombs and Win...my God that was fun!!!...Second round under 200 rank Guild and we Win....GW is getting fun again.....third round we Beat an IWAY team....took forever to do!!!...The best fun I have had in GW!!!! My God my GW Experience has been taken to new heights!!!....Holy Crap!!!! Iam in HoH!!!! we lose but I dont care that was awsome!!!

    Group splits up...I get into another IWAY group in under five minutes...iam in Tombs in another 10 minutes....Amazing!!!....We Win...We Win...We Win...We Win....Iam in HoH again!!!! in same Night!!!...We lose...but I dont care because this is the most fun I have had in a long time in GW!!! And by the way this is with two Henchmen since along the way 2 of the IWAY PuG have dropped!!!

    For all you IWAY hatters out there just beat the build instead of complaining about it.

    If not for IWAY I would not have experienced last night and would have probably left Tombs for good. Now Iam learing the maps and the strategys and having alot of fun.

    Thank you GW for not Nerfing IWAY...you have kept a player on board....Oh and by the way Now that I have played the build even a pug that knows how to counter it can beat it. But on that token good luck finding that PuG to beat it. Since not many Emote weilding snobs will allow us former PvE players or New players to join their eliteist groups. This gives me a chance to Kick their deer emoting, R3+ spamming, emote me to join our group *** into the ground.

    So for everyone out there that wants IWAY dead have fun playing the same old people and teams match after match because people like me would leave Tombs because of the effort to even put together a balanced PuG team who are for the most part like me newer to PvP and get pwned time after time.

    So now instead of complaing about IWAY I will be playing IWAY in Tombs, havin fun....and isnt that what GW is about anyway...and eventually killing IWAY teams.

    Get over yourselves...PLAY THE GAME!!!!

    I will be in Tombs playing IWAY...if you need an IWAY warrior Iam your man!
    whisper me.. Meyer The Mauler
    Last edited by jeffmeyer; 08-12-2005 at 13:21.

  2. #122
    GWOnline.Net Member Axe Rake's Avatar
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    83
    Quote Originally Posted by Archedgar
    IWAY doesn't win halls often, and for good reason....
    we only hold for over 5 times, but yeah... whatever you say dude.
    As always remember, iway is utter useless it cannot hold altars and completely sucks :uhhuh:



  3. #123
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    162
    I think jeffmeyer's post succintly summarises the situation with IWAY. In the first place, it's a good way to get PvP beginners into Tombs, and it'd be a shame if it were severely nerfed. On the other hand, however, any build that allows an unco-ordinated PuG with no voice-comms to get the better of top-200 ranked Guild teams CLEARLY has balance issues. While not impossible to beat, it gives its users an edge which could be called unfair.
    Jeff, no offence, but you can't call yourself a good player based on your experiences in PvE. Mobs act in a predictable, clockwork fashion. They use known skills, they can be lured away from their group, they can be tricked into doing all sorts of things that human players (even inexperienced ones) would be too smart to fall for. PvP is faster, unpredictable, all in all an entirely different game. An experience team that has practiced together lots of times and co-ordinates the game via voice comms SHOULD have the edge over a PuG with no comms: that is the nature of the game or at least should be. Doesn't it worry you that you can thrash much better teams than yours (I am referring to the overall quality of the team not to the individual skills of its members) with a random group?
    Everybody knows IWAY can be beaten, that isn't the issue. The issue is that the metagame has all-but stagnated as everyone is forced to carry lots and lots of warrior hate in order to deal with these groups that rely on a single, unbalanced skill. Nobody likes to see their experienced, highly-co-ordinated team of crack players from a top-100 ranked guild lose to an IWAY PuG when they had decimated every other build they came across: it gives you the feeling that builld doesn't matter, preparation doesn't matter, individual skill doesn't matter, and Tombs is only a glorified rock-paper-scissors game, with IWAY being a very, very big rock.
    I would be extremely disappointed if ANet nerfed IWAY to the point where it's no longer a feasible build, as I do think it's a fun way to get people PvPing, and that's a good thing. But it IS a bit too MUCH at the moment, and I hope even the people doing IWAY and enjoying it can see that.

  4. #124
    GWOnline.Net Member jeffmeyer's Avatar
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    52
    Well you dont know me or if I am good player or not, but like Monster mobs with known movements and skills so is IWAY. So IWAY is no better then a group of monsters, you all know it, you all hate, YOU ALL SHOULD OWN IT, but you dont!!! and why is that? Please explain? Maybe that well coordinated, TS yaking guild should own it. Well maybe they are the noobs for not owning IWAY. From just running IWAY for one night because iam tired of the endless spamimg and bad PUGs IWAY is so beatable. If that balanced guild team was so balanced IWAY is so owned. Try Wards, blind, Ageis anything.........

    I dont mean to sound harsh but I want to play Tombs, and Iam NOT leaving my guild, and Iam also not wasting my time spamming to get into a bad PUG to get beat time after time. Pointless. If eliteism is what is wanted in tombs then maybe there should be some kind of random pug option in tombs that matches random PuGs and gives them the same chance!

    Thinking back on last night in some of our victories the other teams didnt kill our pets so we didnt really get to use IWAY...so does that still make us and IWAY team? And we won...so we are a Warrior/pet team build HMMMMMM! not IWAY :happy14:
    Last edited by jeffmeyer; 08-12-2005 at 14:43.

  5. #125
    GWOnline.Net Member Tap Tap's Avatar
    Posts

    146
    Quote Originally Posted by zma001
    I smell jealousy, guess he can't take it that rank0s are gaining fames faster than him. To all those that say IWAY doesn't require skills, you might as well keep living in ur little cave. IWAY doesn't devalue ur r3 or any ranks, why do u care about ur r3 or r6 anyway, so u can flash it to ppl who don't have it and call them noobs?

    I am glad more ppl are playing IWAY so they can get familiar with all the tomb maps, get into a group in like 5mins instead of wasting 30mins-1hrs idling at ToPK.

    I worship IWAY (hehe), I have been lucky enough to use IWAY to take hoh from some top tomb teams and holding it against some top teams. I am 100fame short of being Rank9 using IWAY and am not ashame of it. Keep bashing IWAY all u want, while we IWAYers will keep racking in fames while u and ur party warp back to ToPK for another restart.

    /Pvp In Love [MATH] - blacklisted in united boonz anti-way page.
    Using this mentality as an example.

    Say the majority of us (even more then now) decide to say the heck with it, and grind fame, much like we would farm gold or rare items. The metagame takes a much more drastic shift of who utilizes an IWAY build, say nearly as high as 80%.

    For those who IWAY, how would you feel if every match you face would be an IWAY build? Would you say "I'd be ok with that' (Which of course, I'm sure many would), but what about after a month of facing the same thing over, and over, and over again?

    From my experiences, if we fight straight through to the HoH, half of those teams (about four) will be IWAY. That's not counting the altar maps or multi team matches. I turn off local chat whenever I go into the Tombs because of the attitude and egoism that's rampant there, from everyone

    I'm rank 7. I got my fame from playing way back in the way, back when you fought Rift Wardens and there was a 6 man match after the Underworld. I think I played a total of ten matches as an IWAY participant to see how it operates. I only mention my rank to show that I've been in a few matches in the Tombs, so I have a bit of an idea of what's out there. In no way do I think because I'm rank 7 I'm better then any rank 1-6 players. Quite frankly, there are some horrible rank 6 players, and some horrible rank 9 players. I let my playing dictate my talent for me (and my old storage full of Celestial Sigil's, which I sold for Fissure armor funding :lol: )

    While I hate to use the term, only the fanboys of it really consider it to be skillful. Skillful to me is understanding where to position your monk as to be able to kite away from a spike if you are target. Skillful to me is anticipating that spike, so you can Infuse your target multiple times. Skillful is knowing the correct order to cast your hexes in order to protect the most important hex from being removed. Skillful is knowing how to interpet a build by its participants, and formulating a stragety while engaging them in a match (requires some type of voice chat usually). Skillful is not overextending your avatar as to endanger your own safety, or that of a healer to rushes out of position to save you.

    Regardless of the fact of how a build is played, I think I can safely say almost any person who was given a 3 match warmup could play in an IWAY team successfully. That's not the case with say a Ranger Spike build (some lack coordination and timing), a hex stacker build (some lack the thought behind it), a rainbow spike (some can't multi-task or spike on intervals), or even a balanced build (some just can't grasp the concept of a team build).

    Lastly, for reasons stated in this post, I've given low to no ranked players a chance to play with r6-9 pick up groups with me, because I've chatted with them, and they want to play. Nine times out of 10, they end up getting booted because either a) They lack comprehension or talent, and are a liability to our build, or b) They put up a huge attitude and argue with what our build should have.

    That's why I will never invite someone (unless I know them personally, or have played with them beforehand) that has very low rank or fame. Attitude. I think that attitude carries over to the IWAY teams they end up joining, and then automatically get a grudge for others, because the majority of IWAY teams feel the need to shoot their mouth off and act very ignorant to other teams, unprompted, and regardless of if they win or lose. I once had an IWAY warrior call me a F****** n00b because I constantly kept using a Ward vs Melee, and he couldn't kill me. And those of us who have a higher rank have an elitist mentality and attitude problem? Another major reason why I keep Local Chat off, to filter out the garbage from people coming there. I say this not as an insult, but most arrogant and ignorant statements come from IWAY groups, not the opposite.

    That's not to bash those who have no rank and are stuck in between a rock and a hard place. I helped one of my good friends in game get to rank 5 just by taking him along and helping him learn the ropes. He had a good knack of protting, and he's turned into a good protection monk, on the way to getting to be a very good one with more experience. He is a rare exception.

    I guess in short, I know rank elitism is a problem, however it's not the only problem. There are always other alternatives to a problem, the quickest is not always the proper solution (aka, IWAY does not solve the answer)

    /twocents

  6. #126
    GWOnline.Net Member Hebug's Avatar
    Posts

    357
    If a crack team from top 100 guilds can't beat IWAY, then it makes me wonder if they really should be top 100. They should know prekiting. They should know to use heal seed. Dust trap. Wards. It really isn't like you have to bring a huge amount of warrior hate, usually what I just mentioned will be MORE than enough.

    We ran our GvG build in Tombs just subbing out our runner for a heal seed/heal party guy. No wards in our build either. Good positioning is key. IWAY is powerful, but it isn't a skill that should overpower a good team.

    Oh, and hi Tap Tap. Not in aB anymore? I'm still rank 2 lol.
    [EnS]Bug
    Ectos And Shards
    #ectos on irc.gamesurge.net

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Hebug
    If a crack team from top 100 guilds can't beat IWAY, then it makes me wonder if they really should be top 100. They should know prekiting. They should know to use heal seed. Dust trap. Wards. It really isn't like you have to bring a huge amount of warrior hate, usually what I just mentioned will be MORE than enough.

    We ran our GvG build in Tombs just subbing out our runner for a heal seed/heal party guy. No wards in our build either. Good positioning is key. IWAY is powerful, but it isn't a skill that should overpower a good team.

    Oh, and hi Tap Tap. Not in aB anymore? I'm still rank 2 lol.
    As i said before IWAY itself is not the problem, the problem is whats come from IWAY, you have these people who think they are something special becase they have a deer that took them a month to grind out by earing 1 fame per run. And if you really notice, IWAY gets beaten more then it wins, the reason people play it is becasue you can get into a PuG with an IWAY warrior as fast as a paladin can in PvE. Its not becase its a solid build,m its becase anyone with 15 minutes of game play can play it. IWAY has stunted creativity, why try something new when you can grind out a few fame per run with IWAY.... I mean why try a build that is balanced and cannot be playing by Joe Blow who just started, take the halls and hold it ang get 100 fame in a run. Can someone please tell me why getting 1-5 fame per run is more fun then getting 100 fame in a run by running a solid build that can hold the halls... I know some one is going to say their IWAY team held halls.. but then again during certain times of the day you can hold the halls with Henchmen. Holding halls during peak times of a day is not done by IWAY, i know some kid is going to say they have done it and show some screen shot, but they won't tell you is when they did it it was when everyone was at work or something else and no-one with any real skill was playing.


    Why can;t people think for themselvs and make something that was not widely done by everyone else already... Hell stop being lemmings and do something difernt.. the Argment of it works is bougus, unless you like to grind fame.

  8. #128
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    30
    The problem is, a player who's fairly new to pvp is not going to make or participate in a "solid build that can hold halls". They're going to lose in the first round, over and over again until they meet a team that's even worse. This is not fun, in any sense of the word. Winning is fun. The only chance of winning they have is by going IWAY. Like it or not, that's the way it is.

  9. #129
    GWOnline.Net Member Taxed's Avatar
    Posts

    860
    Which begs the question...

    Why is there no other 8v8 other than tombs for random people to get together? There desperately needs to be a second arena for newbie tomb/gvg players.

  10. #130
    GWOnline.Net Member jeffmeyer's Avatar
    Posts

    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrek
    The problem is, a player who's fairly new to pvp is not going to make or participate in a "solid build that can hold halls". They're going to lose in the first round, over and over again until they meet a team that's even worse. This is not fun, in any sense of the word. Winning is fun. The only chance of winning they have is by going IWAY. Like it or not, that's the way it is.
    Nicely said....My situation exactly!

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