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  1. #51
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    153
    I hate the fact that individual skills is eclipsed, overridden and beaten down in the name of the "common good". What good is it to be alive yet bound to slavery. Might as well be a borg or a mindless automaton than joining a group where you hardly counts.
    what the **** newb, IWAY can be beaten with any good team. GW isn't ****ing communism it's a game that's emphasized creativity over mass skill use. Chill out, it's just a game, get some fresh air.

  2. #52
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    642
    Quote Originally Posted by Swanky
    what the **** newb, IWAY can be beaten with any good team. GW isn't ****ing communism it's a game that's emphasized creativity over mass skill use. Chill out, it's just a game, get some fresh air.
    Nice way to flame, "chill out" dude.

  3. #53
    FotM, IWAY, Ranger Spike and other 3 2 1 BLASTEM builds just emphasize how pathetic the competition is in this game. Too many people to freaking lazy to become good they just use what is broken!

    It makes me laugh when people talk about beating a Rank 6 team or even Rank 9, hell a good portion of them earned thier rank off of pathetic builds anyway!

    The game is going to ****, the metagame itself is turning people away from the game. It is impossible for new players to become better players when all they can get in public are these stupid builds.

    Every day the comp level in this game dies just a little bit more.

    We need an IWAY commercial

    This is your brain ----> {working, thinking, building}
    This it your brain on IWAY ----> {DUUUUUUUUUH}
    Dupes R 4 Noobs!!!
    Guild Wars The Alphas
    TEB Rules

  4. #54
    Sedai
    Guest
    IWAY can beat HoH..

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Sedai
    IWAY can beat HoH..
    yeah when it plays a group tired of holding, or when they get there at the dead times when no-one good is playing

  6. #56
    GWOnline.Net Member michaeldt's Avatar
    Posts

    1,042
    Well, what I don't understand is how people will dislike a perfectly legitimate build simply because (a) it rips their new test build to pieces or (b) it is a FOTM.

    Having played a lot of tombs recently, I have seen many variations of IWAY. Some are very much more balanced than IWAY, however, they are still based on the same idea. Pet -> Die -> IWAY. The better teams I have seen have used 3W/R, 2 Trappers, a Necor/Ele and 2 Monks. Now, this might seem like a more balanced build, but where do pets fit into a balanced build? ;) Simply, these builds have raw power from the warriors and necro, anti warrior hate on the monks and disruption from the trappers.

    Traditional IWAY does rely a lot on the skill it is named after, but by adding some interesting additions, it becomes even more powerful with fewer warriors. The order necros were one of the first additions making use of corpses for wells. Now they simply use corpse denial and bring orders as well as disruption skills like maelstrom and meteor shower.

    I think a lot of the IWAY-hate is based on the same old wammo hate. Especially the idea of the "stupid" wammo paladin. Most people tend to look at it like warrior=stupid. Hence they hate being torn to shreds by a build based around so much "stupidness" :surprise:

    Personally, I used to very much dislike IWAY, until I played in a few decent groups. Didn't get very far, but once I saw the amount of strategy involved in a better IWAY, I realised that IWAY is no worse than ranger spike, or air spike, or FoC spike. All very nice builds to play.

    Now, I don't mind IWAY too much. It does get frustrating to play the same build over and over in tombs, but then, the same could be said for most FOTM tombs builds. I don't mind the builds themselves, what I don't like is that there is a large section of the PvP community who would rather simply pick a FOTM build that is currently doing well instead of actually trying to make new and more innovative builds. I like playing against the better guilds in tombs because it not only gives you a chance to play good teams, but it's interesting to see the builds they are trying out and the thinking behind them.
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  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldt
    Well, what I don't understand is how people will dislike a perfectly legitimate build simply because (a) it rips their new test build to pieces or (b) it is a FOTM.

    Having played a lot of tombs recently, I have seen many variations of IWAY. Some are very much more balanced than IWAY, however, they are still based on the same idea. Pet -> Die -> IWAY. The better teams I have seen have used 3W/R, 2 Trappers, a Necor/Ele and 2 Monks. Now, this might seem like a more balanced build, but where do pets fit into a balanced build? ;) Simply, these builds have raw power from the warriors and necro, anti warrior hate on the monks and disruption from the trappers.

    Traditional IWAY does rely a lot on the skill it is named after, but by adding some interesting additions, it becomes even more powerful with fewer warriors. The order necros were one of the first additions making use of corpses for wells. Now they simply use corpse denial and bring orders as well as disruption skills like maelstrom and meteor shower.

    I think a lot of the IWAY-hate is based on the same old wammo hate. Especially the idea of the "stupid" wammo paladin. Most people tend to look at it like warrior=stupid. Hence they hate being torn to shreds by a build based around so much "stupidness" :surprise:

    Personally, I used to very much dislike IWAY, until I played in a few decent groups. Didn't get very far, but once I saw the amount of strategy involved in a better IWAY, I realised that IWAY is no worse than ranger spike, or air spike, or FoC spike. All very nice builds to play.

    Now, I don't mind IWAY too much. It does get frustrating to play the same build over and over in tombs, but then, the same could be said for most FOTM tombs builds. I don't mind the builds themselves, what I don't like is that there is a large section of the PvP community who would rather simply pick a FOTM build that is currently doing well instead of actually trying to make new and more innovative builds. I like playing against the better guilds in tombs because it not only gives you a chance to play good teams, but it's interesting to see the builds they are trying out and the thinking behind them.
    the things is people will not see beyond IWAY and becase anyone can play IWAY, regardless of how skilled you are IWAY is IWAY, the bad thing about it is it gets really crappy people to rakn 3 thus makeing rank 3 groups worse, now the people who are rank 3-5 that look for rank 3-5 groups get nothing but brainless worders who got there with IWAY. IWAY is not the problem, its the side effects it causes that are the problem. Currently in tombs a rank 3 pug is no better atll then a rank 0 pug, infact you gerenaly get more fame in a rank 0 pug for the fact that people do let the rank 3 go to their heads. There are people who say i'm rank 3 therfore i know what i'm talking about, enthying from EoE bomb will work on the unwrothys to bing things like mending for a warrior. it has take nealy all value out of the lower ranked people who EARNED their rank with various build and tactics. Rank 3 no longer means anything and is soon gonna devalue the rank 6 people becase you can grind out the rank. Rank of any kind means nothing if you can only play 1 very specfic thing. Yes once in a blue moon IWAY might make it to the halls and by some stroke of luky like a ghostly glitching they might even win, but they won't hold. FoTM build without meaning to dull the minds of many otherwise good players, they fall into a mindset of do this and you can win, but then everyone can counter it with very little effort so they make one small thing work, they win 3 more fame then that doesn't work. People fail to get away from the FoTM build not becase they work or don't wqork, its becase they lose the ability to see things beyond the build. Any IWAY out there now falls to peices with its necro dead. its like the heart, they damage is cut to less then half, not to mention an ageis chain beats it becase if they can;t hit your screwed. Next someone will say just everyone use warriors cunning, but then you lose even more damage dealing skills so you can atleast hit someone but by that point your not doing enough damage that average monks can't keep up. IWAY is the souce of a problem in which its side effects have really made tombs not as fun. I don't know hardly anyone who like fighting and beathing the same thing over and over again. I like variet, seeing something like energy denial or IWAY every so often is nice, but when you see 5 warriors 2 necros and a ranger on 4 out of every 5 teams its just boreing and getting to the halls doesn't mean anything. I'm not saying its a build thats expoiting anything becase its not, its just so damn easy to beat there isn't much point in running it. People do win with it from time to time, but the whole 1 to 3 fame an hour is crap when a good balanced build can make 20 per hour or even more

  8. #58
    GWOnline.Net Member Roy's Avatar
    Posts

    99
    Quote Originally Posted by STINGER
    FotM, IWAY, Ranger Spike and other 3 2 1 BLASTEM
    FoTM isn't a specific build dude. It means Flavor of the Month.

    I don't mind at all playing against an IWAY team in tombs. At least with a build like that I know how it works, what it's weaknesses are, and how to counter it under certain circumstances. There are advantages to monotony. Playing a new/different build every single time would be a bit frustrating. One tombs match is not always enough to figure out how a given build operates, often requiring you to fly by the seat of your pants not really knowing what you're doing. IWAY offers familiarity.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    FoTM isn't a specific build dude. It means Flavor of the Month.

    I don't mind at all playing against an IWAY team in tombs. At least with a build like that I know how it works, what it's weaknesses are, and how to counter it under certain circumstances. There are advantages to monotony. Playing a new/different build every single time would be a bit frustrating. One tombs match is not always enough to figure out how a given build operates, often requiring you to fly by the seat of your pants not really knowing what you're doing. IWAY offers familiarity.

    Dont take this personal please, but this is a statement of failure! Having this in your mind will nevr allow you to step out of the poor/average player rank in this game!

    The challenge, thrill, and design of the game is to have thousands of different "balanced" builds causing you to prepare with counters in not only skills, but tactics and strat.

    There is no challenge in smoking IWAY, there is little to "figure out" and the same goes for other FotMs and they put players into comfort zones and totally numb thier minds. They retard a players progression and then in the end once the skills are adjusted it breaks thier heart and they cry YOU NERFED ME.

    In testing we were told, and we learned that if a skill becomes a "must take", or if you have a skill you want a full team using or at least all the damagers then you have a red flag for a balance issue. Also if the counters to a build become so few then its a red flag also.

    What was wrong wiht Energy Drain and Energy Tap that cause it to be nerfed? Was it so ovr powered that it ruled Tombs or Gvg? No! They were so good that it became a "must take" and everyone and thier brothers brother was using it even over other skills like an Attunement, Monks ran around full of energy being offensive wiht thier EDrains, it had proven to be "too good".

    IWAY is "too good" Pets need to be removed from activating it. It should also never activate over an "old" body, somehow it needs to "consume corpse" without actually consuming it as if it did that then it becomes even more powerfull.

    Phantom Pain/Shatter Delusions is too much and needs changed also. Removing the Hex "offensively" should cancle the Deep Wound! Really, removing it at all IMO should cancel its DW but I will settle for the offensive measure.

    Damage buffs need to calculated as a "SUM" and the sum should equal one hit along wiht the arrow. A Ranger brings "balanced damage" but the way all the mods are applied 20+4+10+10+16...etc totally negates a number of skills mainly Prot Spirit. Same can be said for a Warrior under similar mod stacking conditions but not as severe. Ranger interrupts should also be slowed due to the bow used as there is virtually no difference using a Short Bow or a Horn Bow with an interrupt, and i am even wondering if the interrupts due to thier "quick attack" should be adjust not to apply any "outside" modifiers but only the buffs of the Ranger himself to bring it more into balance.

    Skills casting thur walls is another issue I have ALWAYS disliked and I have never understood why casters are allowed to nail ppl thru walls with anything that is "dirrect damage, Hexes are a different thing but Ob Flame, Blood Skills, Smite...etc Should not go thru walls.

    FotMs become that because they are easy to play. It is dead simple to do a count down and hit a few keys. Sure, some do it better than others but with only a little bit of time maybe even just one run you can get the timing down and be at least 90% effective. It is brainless and basically needs little to no strat for a reasonable success rate especially in Tombs. Now, yes, good team do it better as they also bring in good strat and tactics and are usually more efficent than the average team. I really good spike happens and it cant be stopped unless you "guess the target". Now there are things that can tip you off but there again, the better the team the less tip offs thier are. Good spikes are like pressing delete and that is to powerfull and too simple and needs adjusted somehow.

    Right now we have several builds that dont even require debuffing to kill, or the buffs cant come fast enuff and the game is all about rezing well and out spiking each other. Strat and tactics are not obsolete but they are so far out of most peoples mind its bad for the game. I mean hell many of these spikes can smoke a Warrior with Endure and his high armor and shield, and hell if you enchant him all you do is add to the spike wiht a Shatter....almost nothing but Infuse rihgt now is safe to use as there is usually a Me sitting there waiting for that little yellow arrow and an Echo or Arcane Echo Shatter Enchant.
    Dupes R 4 Noobs!!!
    Guild Wars The Alphas
    TEB Rules

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by STINGER
    Dont take this personal please, but this is a statement of failure! Having this in your mind will nevr allow you to step out of the poor/average player rank in this game!

    The challenge, thrill, and design of the game is to have thousands of different "balanced" builds causing you to prepare with counters in not only skills, but tactics and strat.

    There is no challenge in smoking IWAY, there is little to "figure out" and the same goes for other FotMs and they put players into comfort zones and totally numb thier minds. They retard a players progression and then in the end once the skills are adjusted it breaks thier heart and they cry YOU NERFED ME.

    In testing we were told, and we learned that if a skill becomes a "must take", or if you have a skill you want a full team using or at least all the damagers then you have a red flag for a balance issue. Also if the counters to a build become so few then its a red flag also.

    What was wrong wiht Energy Drain and Energy Tap that cause it to be nerfed? Was it so ovr powered that it ruled Tombs or Gvg? No! They were so good that it became a "must take" and everyone and thier brothers brother was using it even over other skills like an Attunement, Monks ran around full of energy being offensive wiht thier EDrains, it had proven to be "too good".

    IWAY is "too good" Pets need to be removed from activating it. It should also never activate over an "old" body, somehow it needs to "consume corpse" without actually consuming it as if it did that then it becomes even more powerfull.

    Phantom Pain/Shatter Delusions is too much and needs changed also. Removing the Hex "offensively" should cancle the Deep Wound! Really, removing it at all IMO should cancel its DW but I will settle for the offensive measure.

    Damage buffs need to calculated as a "SUM" and the sum should equal one hit along wiht the arrow. A Ranger brings "balanced damage" but the way all the mods are applied 20+4+10+10+16...etc totally negates a number of skills mainly Prot Spirit. Same can be said for a Warrior under similar mod stacking conditions but not as severe. Ranger interrupts should also be slowed due to the bow used as there is virtually no difference using a Short Bow or a Horn Bow with an interrupt, and i am even wondering if the interrupts due to thier "quick attack" should be adjust not to apply any "outside" modifiers but only the buffs of the Ranger himself to bring it more into balance.

    Skills casting thur walls is another issue I have ALWAYS disliked and I have never understood why casters are allowed to nail ppl thru walls with anything that is "dirrect damage, Hexes are a different thing but Ob Flame, Blood Skills, Smite...etc Should not go thru walls.

    FotMs become that because they are easy to play. It is dead simple to do a count down and hit a few keys. Sure, some do it better than others but with only a little bit of time maybe even just one run you can get the timing down and be at least 90% effective. It is brainless and basically needs little to no strat for a reasonable success rate especially in Tombs. Now, yes, good team do it better as they also bring in good strat and tactics and are usually more efficent than the average team. I really good spike happens and it cant be stopped unless you "guess the target". Now there are things that can tip you off but there again, the better the team the less tip offs thier are. Good spikes are like pressing delete and that is to powerfull and too simple and needs adjusted somehow.

    Right now we have several builds that dont even require debuffing to kill, or the buffs cant come fast enuff and the game is all about rezing well and out spiking each other. Strat and tactics are not obsolete but they are so far out of most peoples mind its bad for the game. I mean hell many of these spikes can smoke a Warrior with Endure and his high armor and shield, and hell if you enchant him all you do is add to the spike wiht a Shatter....almost nothing but Infuse rihgt now is safe to use as there is usually a Me sitting there waiting for that little yellow arrow and an Echo or Arcane Echo Shatter Enchant.
    you are partial right and partialy wrong, for instance, you say ranger inteurpts should be changed.. i fail to see how you can take a skill that by its nature has to be an instant cast inorder to interupt something should be made so it is not... Also you say IWAY needs to be nerfed becase its too godd, well NEWSFLASH IWAY is in NO WAY toog odd, its mearly useing skills as they were intended, granted it is the cause of a great many problem, BUT its useing the skills as they were intened so therfore there is no imbalance. Back to the ranger inteurpts, a ranger already has 1.5 seconds of dead time after shotting an interupt, during this time you cannot do anything but stand there you can't use a skill you cannot move you cannot do anything but get hit, so why do you profress to take away out interupts even more simply becase some people out there use the skills for in the instant fire. Just becase they use the skill for the fast fire instead of the interupt doesn't mean you need to take the interupts away from the majority that use them for the interupt. If Anet does any more to nerf ranger interupt skills they will lose a great number of players becase of it. People like the ones who make up IWAY and ranger spike do more to HURT the game then help it. Yes it might be the nifty thing of the week but it lingers on till people complain about it. I never said there was anything wrong with IWAY itself its useing skills as they are meant to be used. The problem is what comes from it, which is the fault of the players not Anet. We as players should grow beyond what somene else thought of and do something on their own. But alas humans have more incomon then lemmings then anything else, we see one person do something that somewhat works so then everyone else has to do it with blinders on to the point where everything is that way or nothing. I hate IWAY not becase of what it is, but because of what it does to players. Its the same way with anything that someone else thinks up so everyone else has to copy it. For example i was in TA the other day which i haddn't been in for quite a while, and i say 12 out of the 27 teams i beat use the class combo my team usually runs trying to do what my team does. Seeing a shutdown mesmer interupt ranger prot monk and warrior in a group makes me somewhat mad and laugh at the same time. I know the workings of my build in and out and i know how to beat my build with my build, the sad thing is a copy is never as good as an orginal. So people think of your own tactics and builds hey guess what you might actualy win with you idea, rather then haveing to steal someone elses

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