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  1. #1

    The IDS issue and how it could have been avoided (and can be in the future)

    I started to post this in the IDS thread, but since it's going all over the place and doesn't really cover what I want to address, I thought I'd start a new thread so this wouldn't get lost. I'd really like some feedback on this issue.

    My biggest problem with the whole IDS situation is that ANet's actions don't seem to match their statements. A few facts:

    1) ANet has stated that GW is not supposed to be about grinding. You should not have to farm to get good items.

    2) As part of the holiday celebration, ANet adds several new items, some useful (IDS), others not so useful (Peppermint shields, Gingerbread Focus).

    3) To get the not so useful item, ANet introduces several new quests. Somewhat time consuming, but not overly so and pretty fun as well. Once you're done, you get the item (and I don't think you can repeat the quest?).

    4) To the the more useful item, you need to farm a particularly hard to reach area over and over again, either with a specialized build or a just a large team. But farming reduces the drops, so if you're unlucky the first few times, your chances to get one will decrease as you farm more (unconfirmed, but seems to be indicated by the experience of the unlucky farmers). Therefore, the farming appears to feed on itself.

    Now ANet says that the game is not about farming/grinding (and even puts in code to discourage it) but then adds a special new item (IDS) that is:

    a) unique in appearance,
    b) has excellent stats, and
    c) obtainable only by farming!!??

    Now I admit that this item isn't necessary to have, but I think everyone would agree that it is a very useful item and would be desired by many, and ANet has to know that. This seems completely at odds with their stated position. And just to fuel the fire, Gaile states that they may not be there after the holidays!?!?

    However, this is not a rant -- I think this could've been fixed by changing the way these items were given out. IMHO, ANet should've made the IDS part of the Wintersday quests and had it work like any other quest reward item (i.e., you can only do the quest once). That way, everyone who wants one can get one and people can't farm them to death and resell them for exorbitant amounts.

    The more obscure items (gingerbread shields and such), could drop from strange areas such as the imps. That way, people who claim to enjoy farming the imps could farm away and get all kinds of cool little items. And some people probably will pay for them, even with their crappy little stats (heaven knows there are plenty of people in this game with gold to burn).

    Anyway, it's too late to do this now, but this is just a suggestion to ANet for future special items of this nature so that people don't get so spun up about it and the players end up polarized into "haves" and "have nots".

    (FWIW, I think this whole thing was an accident. The fact that Gaile seemed confused about IDS's at the beginning makes me think that some code might've gotten inadvertently deployed. But once people started getting them, they had no choice but to leave it there to keep everyone else from getting upset.)

    Edit: As a disclaimer:

    a) I do not have an IDS.
    b) I did make multiple farming runs to attempt to get one
    c) I do not have a sword warrior, so I wouldn't use one even if I had one
    d) The only reason I was farming them was to give them away and/or sell them.
    Last edited by Doyle; 28-12-2005 at 16:28. Reason: clarification/grammar

  2. #2
    GWOnline.Net Member Rane-'s Avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, IDS is in no way necessary.

    The point you make about grind being apparent is valid, but it still ISN'T the focus of the game, just as ANet intended.

    A lot of people don't seem to realise that you can get a sword with the EXACT SAME STATS as IDS for around 8k. If you have the time/are bored/want it that badly/are rich/etc then you CAN 'grind' to get an IDS. You won't be gaining any practical advantage over anyone else. All you get is personal satisfaction.

    It's the exact same scenario as fissure armour. Anyone who has got to Droks can buy the best armour in the game. As with IDS if you have the time/are bored/want it that badly/are rich/etc then you CAN 'grind' to get 15k/fissure armour. The bonuses granted by such items are purely aesthetical/emotional.

    Really a lot of people don't seem to understand what makes unique things unique is that they are unique. Nobody wants what everyone else has, they want what otehrs don't have. Conversly when someone has something noone else has, everybody wants it.

    I really think ANet has done an excellent job with what they choose to be 'grinds'. Anything that takes grinding is purely for aesthetic/emotional bonuses. I can't name any item in GW that requires obscene grind which you can't get an identical version (stat wise) with minimal effort.

  3. #3
    GWOnline.Net Member
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    I think the probelm with putting these in the quest is about fairness, why should warriors have slick cool looking max damage 15% weapons given to them for the Winterday quest? Rangers and Castors would be in an uproar because they did the quest and got a useless item while warriors hit the jackpot. I think its fine this way it is because the Winterday quest was fun and fair. If you are not a warrior what are you gonna do with a sword?

  4. #4
    What I find is a new thing is that in effect the IDS is the first droppable collector sword (max stats, req.9 and blue).
    It has max stats, looks very nice and it's a grind to get it (if you can't get one by farming).
    As I haven't been able to somehow get a IDS in 7 traditional farming runs and 2 experimental warrior / ranger running groups I could still buy one for around 50k or so.
    I agree that grind is basically (one of) the most time wasting things you can do in gw and is not very pleasurable in any way.

    Personately I wouldn't mind not having an item that is like a collectors collector sword because it isn't unique and doesn't give grinders a real advantage other than being able to get it out of a drop or being able to sell it for quite a profit.

    But I do agree that accomplishments should be about skill and not about pure chance, it makes getting an IDS just as frustrating as clearing perdition 3 times and still not getting the elite you want, not because you did anything wrong or you just plain suck, but because the stuped boss didn't spawn.
    I realy hope something is done about pointless grind and having a quest like you stated earlier could be 1 of the possible solutions
    Last edited by DreamCatcher; 28-12-2005 at 16:51.

  5. #5
    GWOnline.Net Member
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    Am I the only one who think gingerbread/peppermint shield more useful than IDS? I can never understand this IDS frenzy, why is IDS wanted and fiery dragon sword (FDS?) not. Maybe anet should just distribute IDS so everyone gets one and all these craziness will go away. :xmas10:

  6. #6
    GWOnline.Net Member Achievements:
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    it's just funny (and disturbing :s ) how people react to prestige items. Right now people actualy fight when someone wants to sell halloween items, while the only thing they do is a nice graphical effect for about 2 seconds or so. Can you imagine what will happen if someone starts yelling 'WTS shield that looks like candy' next summer? It will be hillarious :D The green items are the same. For most green items you can find something similar among the gold, purple or even blue items. Me ranger (best character so far) is no wimp, since she is in the last mission waiting for me to stop messing around with my necro and finaly finish the games and she still uses a bow I found in Kryta (a zealous shortbow). Point is. Most of the 'high end' items everyone wants are basicly the same as more common items. ok, maybe some of the green ARE worth it, but overall you don't have to go to so much trouble of farming/buying greens. The same with armors, who needs 15k. It's just a way to get rid of extra cash, but if I don't have the cash, why should i go 15k? The icy sword is like that too. Why do you ned it? only one reason, for show. And for me that's just not good enough a reason.

    Still they souldn't chance anything about those items. It's always fun to see people freak out when someone (not me I don't have one) coms in with a pumpkin hat :D Never understood what could be so great about wearing a piece of vegetable on your head :s
    Last edited by Mawgleah; 28-12-2005 at 16:58. Reason: This is a family oriented site

  7. #7
    GWOnline.Net Member CKaz's Avatar
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    /agree

    Good post dfscott, I feel similiarly and went to add to the post
    but then felt you pretty much covered it so I didn't :x-toad:

  8. #8
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, IDS is in no way necessary.

    The point you make about grind being apparent is valid, but it still ISN'T the focus of the game, just as ANet intended.
    That's how I see it. If a bunch of (how can I say this...ok I'll cop out) "people" want to elbow and step on each other to collect Cabbage Patch Dolls (IDS) then at least they supply the rest of us with a good laugh.

    In fact, it will now be known as the Cabbage Patch Sword (CPS) for me.
    Last edited by Sun is in us; 28-12-2005 at 17:12.

  9. #9
    GWOnline.Net Member bloodtide's Avatar
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    I dont farm in large amounts in less i want good armour. I farmed for an IDS coz i wanted one. Thats simple enough.

    However, i do know, that as of late, there have been many anti farming patches to stop people. I personally see this item as almost compensation for how hard it is to farm in some places now (which i do think is a good thing).

    These swords arent selling for alot of money now everyone knows about them so if you cant get to them but wnat one:be quiet and buy one (they go for 4-6k now. If you can get one then its more of a status simble than farming to make money.

    I think Anet just wanted to give farmers some insentive to stay in the game. Of course i know jack about what happens in anet so its all just specualtion so hay, mabye this entire post means nothing lol. :xmas21: :x-toad:

  10. #10
    Because it doesen't offer a competitive advantage I think the IDS (Iain Duncan Smith?!) is fine. You can still win anything without doing the grind to get it and as such I don;t think ANET are contradicting themselves.

    In fact I really like how the specified the drop point to an area where very few people bothered to go. What I enjoyed the most was that the IDS challenged me to create a solo build for my warrior to run out there and get one (I don't have a monk).

    Not that Weasel Chops has found on yet but I got lucky on the first day and got one with my Mezzer + 7 henchmen. It looks cool and I'm glad I have it. So I can understand how gutted some people will be who cannot find/afford one. But I don't think it contratvenes the principles of the game.

    The candy shields and weapons are also fun, but because storage limits are so small it's becoming hard to justify keeping all my Halloween/Krimbo items.

    Overall I'd be happy if more IDS-style items showed up in the more remote and unvisited locations of Tyria.

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